Match up concerns for opposing defenses

[ironviet]

Let's say for hypothetical reasons that our picks live up to their hype.

Wouldn't a nice spread formation just make everyone better in passing situations?
5 WR pkg- Santana Moss 5'9" and Devin Thomas 6'2" on the edges covered by the defenses best 1-2 CB. ARE 5'9", Malcolm 6'4", and Anthony Mix 6'5" covered by the defense's nickel, dime, safeties, or LB's. I think with the right motions to exploit matchups, I think we will fare much better than last year.

4 WR w/ RB or TE then Cooley and Portis will hsve much more room to operate.

2 TE packages will now give us the package that looks run but we can pass out of. We have to have at least a top 5 TE tandem now. Not many teams will put 2 LB's on each TE but more likely a safety, nickel, and LB combo in which at least one TE will get open but all along they still need to cover the speedy edge we have.

Overall I felt all along our conservative playcalling led to our losses when we were up at halftime. Our defense even though we lost the late Sean Taylor, Rocky Mcintosh, and Carlos Rogers still were able to shut teams down. Our upgraded offense is at least now causes defenses much concern because we added size with 3 1st round caliber pass catchers to the 3 guys we already have. In our division only the Cowboys will be able to matchup with us but I know we could've owned the NFC East last if it weren't for those 4 plays against the Giants the first time and that late int by JC against the Dallas.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Lionel Richie said it best "ALL NIGHT LONG.." We will keep DC's up late night all year.

[Ernie5]

No, we need D-linemen!!! Just kidding.

Your analysis makes sense to me.

[BALLz]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see Roy Wiliams try to cover Kelly in the slot.

[Smoot Point Really]

I think our current personnel is ideal for killing cover 2 defenses...

And defenses who can't play a sacagawean...

[authentic]

Lionel Richie said it best "ALL NIGHT LONG.." We will keep DC's up late night all year.

:laugh:

[ironviet]

Yeah our TE's and slots will eat up that cover 2 just because we can attack from more all areas. I think Moss will get less double teams now too.

[Warhead36]

As long as we keep Campbell up right we should be able to take advantage of numerous matchups!

[FedUpField]

Um -- hate to play devil's advocate here but the combo of mediocre pass protection and a 9 step drop/delayed throwing motion means if JC has no time to check down or can't hit the open guy, it doesn't matter how many weapons are out there running routes...footwork, throwing motion and a healthy line = moving chains (ref: green bay's fortunate and unheralded 2007 receiving corps for evidence) -- don't forget, it was TC who proved most efficient last year -- then again, that was the old system -- time, coaching and practice will tell how advantageous a bigger arsenal will be for JC -- the more experience he gets the slower the game seems to him -- let's see if a faster, more efficient system meets him in the middle. That said, we could have Jerry Rice, Charley Taylor, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison in our set and if the guy can't hit em, the guy can't hit em.

In re match ups -- if the trenches are the ballgame, our OL is a year older and still nursing injuries while our own division boasts younger, faster, more versatile, quality DL's -- that's 6 games to sweat right off the bat. Yes, we might have a better receiving corps (in theory, on paper, hypothetically, etc) than our opponents' back 7 or 8 but, again, if the QB has no time to throw, what good are they?

- FUF

[GroundNPound]

Um -- hate to play devil's advocate here but the combo of mediocre pass protection and a 9 step drop/delayed throwing motion means if JC has no time to check down or can't hit the open guy, it doesn't matter how many weapons are out there running routes...footwork, throwing motion and a healthy line = moving chains (ref: green bay's fortunate and unheralded 2007 receiving corps for evidence) -- don't forget, it was TC who proved most efficient last year -- then again, that was the old system -- time, coaching and practice will tell how advantageous a bigger arsenal will be for JC -- the more experience he gets the slower the game seems to him -- let's see if a faster, more efficient system meets him in the middle. That said, we could have Jerry Rice, Charley Taylor, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison in our set and if the guy can't hit em, the guy can't hit em.

In re match ups -- if the trenches are the ballgame, our OL is a year older and still nursing injuries while our own division boasts younger, faster, more versatile, quality DL's -- that's 6 games to sweat right off the bat. Yes, we might have a better receiving corps (in theory, on paper, hypothetically, etc) than our opponents' back 7 or 8 but, again, if the QB has no time to throw, what good are they?

- FUF

Our O-line allowed 31 sacks in 2005, 19 in 2006, and 29 in 2007. That's 13th in the league in '07. That's with an injury-riddled patch-work line. Rabach, Thomas, and Jansen are all just about fully recouped from their injuries. Samuels doesn't even need mentioning. Heyer has time to let last year soak in. Kendall is more familiar with working with who we have. Not only that... but between the draft and UDFA, we have 5 O-linemen with potential to work with and one of the best line coaches in the league to find gems. On top of that... if you research, you'll find that many of the sacks came from OLB and DB blitzes. Most of the time when that happens, it not a break-down in blocking, but just bad reads from the QB... or just good blitzing.

I am curious to see how JC hadles this offense... if he handles it the way he did his offense his senior year, this could be quite a show.

[SkinzFoLife]

Lets see.... 2 TE set with 2 wide outs, 1 tail back.
Put both TE's and Wide outs into the pattern, keep portis back to block, and you have 6 blockers and 4 recievers running routes, or you can just as easily run out that formation so the opposing defenses will have to think twice about putting the nickel package in and it created mismatches. Either way, JC can audible at the line to run or pass.

[nightbird]

We're getting away from the deep, deep drops, so the idea is that JC won't have to hold the ball for a week waiting for a wr to get open.

And don't forget, Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly can BLOCK, so we'll be running Clinton through some spread out lanes in those 3 and 4 wide sets.

[Soup]

This year we will see what Campbell is made. There will be no excuses if campbell doesn't produce with all this talent. The way Campbell plays will determine how potent this offense can be. Imagine if the patriots drafted Thomas, DAvis and Kelly everyone would say, "another perfect season". Campbell needs to step up :fingersx:

[morpheusmeyers]

I'm most interested in seeing a 2 TE, 2 WR set with Cooley, F. Davis, M. Kelly, and D. Thomas being the receivers. It will be lethal in the red zone.

[oraphus]

I don't care if the team has 8 excellent WRs going out.. if the QB doesn't have time to make the read on any .. it's not going to matter (see patriots sb)
08 season depends even more so on a healthy O line then a bunch of WR's. If they can protect the QB, Campbell has a chance to find an open receiver.. plus he can use his scrambling ability as well.
only time will show how it all plays out.. but i am excited to see a new look to our offense.

PS and don't over estimate the 2TE sets.. see cowboys experiment with Whitten and Fassano. There was a lot of talk from them about the 2TE sets.. and nothing really came out of it.
at least we have a backup with solid potential.

[ironviet]

are some of you kidding? our makeshift offensive line last year was well above average. do i have to remind you that we had an undrafted rookie who was 3 on the depth chart as well as a journeyman OG on that same side? Hell all the sacks against the pats came from the right side.

say all you want about giants pass rush. we played them twice and should have beaten them twice. our o-line knows how to play them. i know the giants had the most sacks but most came from a double digit sack game against the eagles. now i'm not saying their d-line is overrated but if a team runs at them as much as we are able to do, the d-line gets tired. i'm sorry but the giants defense is so beatable it's ridiculous. pats lost because their defense played poorly and brady had a bum ankle. yeah the pass rush gave them fits but that was not the only reason why thy lost.

all about matchups and how teams play. were we as bad as our defeat against the pats but yet dominated the same team that won the superbowl?

[ironviet]

I don't care if the team has 8 excellent WRs going out.. if the QB doesn't have time to make the read on any .. it's not going to matter (see patriots sb)
08 season depends even more so on a healthy O line then a bunch of WR's. If they can protect the QB, Campbell has a chance to find an open receiver.. plus he can use his scrambling ability as well.
only time will show how it all plays out.. but i am excited to see a new look to our offense.

PS and don't over estimate the 2TE sets.. see cowboys experiment with Whitten and Fassano. There was a lot of talk from them about the 2TE sets.. and nothing really came out of it.
at least we have a backup with solid potential.

I agree with you that JC needs to be standing upright. But to be honest, I feel the health of our o-line benefits more for the run than the pass. Our starters open up holes better than the backups. But the backups proved that they can pass protect enough for us to get a pass off last season.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Spread offenses work if your QB can make quick decisions and get the ball out in a hurry...because he is going to get drilled. Think of Kurt Warner.

If Campbell can actually do this, it might work. If Johnny Windup can't...well...in all honesty, Todd Collins might be able to. And actually, you just described Hawaii's offense.

Another issue is the line. When healthy, we still have a pretty good line. However, I'm not sure that Jansen and Thomas and Kendall are really designed for blocking in a spread offense. You need slightly smaller athletic guys who can find blitzers.

[dfitzo53]

I don't think we can assume that all of our top picks are going to pan out, especially in the first season and the team's first year in this offense.

I hope we chose well, but I honestly don't expect us to be lighting up the scoreboard week in and week out.

[HigSkin]

I think we are going to give opposing defenses fits.

Zorn will have JC and TC ready for this new offense per this WP article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/18/AR2008041803177.html

Since workouts began, most of Campbell's time on the practice field has centered on footwork and positioning his body correctly while passing in the quick-paced scheme Zorn will unveil during minicamp, which begins May 2.

Timing is a component of Zorn's offense as well, but "everything we do in it is a quicker reaction," Campbell said. "It's done at a different speed, there's no wasted movement, because it is a West Coast offense. That's what you have to be ready for."

In preparing Campbell and backup Todd Collins (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Todd+Collins?tid=informline) for his offense, Zorn has instructed them in drills designed to improve their footwork and placement of the ball before beginning their throwing motion. Zorn was the Seattle Seahawks (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Seattle+Seahawks?tid=informline)' quarterbacks coach before joining the Redskins, and his reputation as a good teacher is well deserved, Campbell said.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I like Zorn but he strikes me as a pretty good candidate to be completely burned out by the end of October. It seems like he is being QB coach, offensive coordinator, and Head Coach all at the same time.

[D-Day]

Besides the returning health of our starters on the OL, the two WR's who can block, the best pass blocking RB in football that won't have to go out on routes now, and the experience gained by the young replacements last year there are other aspects of this offense the "our OL sucks" folks are forgetting.

These picks will allow us to spread the field, last year we had Moss triple teamed most of the year because no other receiving threat could consistently beat a single coverage. The safety was shading him deep, the cb was playing off of him to take away the YAC and the LB was shading him to take away the screens. With multiple targets they will not be able to keep one eye on Moss. They will have to keep both eyes on their man.

OL is not the question this year, it is if JC can get the receivers the ball. Our guys should have a field day and Portis should have running lanes this year.

Which brings me to my next point. As well as these coverages that we saw most of the year we also saw 8 men in the box for most of the non obvious passing downs. Teams were blitzing us at will. These weapons on offense will reduce the number of times we see a blitz once JC burns a couple of teams early.

Pass protection will not be an issue this year unless we see catastrophic injuries like last year. It is the patriots and cowboys turn for those this year after all.

[elkabong82]

Keep in mind, JC doubters, that he ran a WCO in college, and was very succesful last year running a no huddle offense. Simply put, JC looked better playing at a fast pace than when he did playing conservative to hold on to a lead.

The O-line injuries are a concern. However, '07 was the first season since '04 that any O-lineman has missed significant time. Jansen's injury came on a fluke hit that should have never happened. The defender jumped early, was never called for it, and the play was never blown dead as it should have been. Thomas' injury should be a concern though. '05 was a flukish one, as Betts rolled over his leg. This one in '07 wasn't a fluke. But we do have some solid depth. Fabini looked terrible at times alongside Wade, but I think he or the rookie, Rinehart, would look decent at least, playing between Rabach and Jansen. I believe our depth situation is actually better this year with Heyer having a full year under him, the addition of Rinehart, and the possible addition of another UDFA OL.

Of course there is cause for concern with the offense going into this season, but I would say there is just as much cause, if not more, for optimism with the offense.

[acuratl1984]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see Roy Wiliams try to cover Kelly in the slot.\

lets just hope he doesnt horse collar Kelly...

[mudhog]

Our O-line allowed 31 sacks in 2005, 19 in 2006, and 29 in 2007. That's 13th in the league in '07. That's with an injury-riddled patch-work line. Rabach, Thomas, and Jansen are all just about fully recouped from their injuries. Samuels doesn't even need mentioning. Heyer has time to let last year soak in. Kendall is more familiar with working with who we have. Not only that... but between the draft and UDFA, we have 5 O-linemen with potential to work with and one of the best line coaches in the league to find gems. On top of that... if you research, you'll find that many of the sacks came from OLB and DB blitzes. Most of the time when that happens, it not a break-down in blocking, but just bad reads from the QB... or just good blitzing.

I am curious to see how JC hadles this offense... if he handles it the way he did his offense his senior year, this could be quite a show.

This is a very good point about blitzes GNP. I can't recall ever seeing Campbell call an audible to adjust for an aggressive defense. For that matter, I never saw Collins call one either. I hope we address this problem and start making the correct reads sooner, in order to make our offense more productive. Every time you watch Peyton Manning just about, he's calling a freakin audible.

Thats all, Hail

[The Caretaker]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see Roy Wiliams try to cover Kelly in the slot.

He will just collar him :doh:

[SeanTaylorINOURHearts]

Dang...I actually feel sorry for the opposing defense...



NOT!!!

[SeanTaylorINOURHearts]

Has anyone even thought about the idea of a Hail Mary before halftime or the end of the game...Imagine Mix (6'5), Kelly (6'4), Thomas (6'2) and Davis (6'4) in a jump ball in the endzone...

Thats not even fair...

[skinthemboys]

Last time I heard alot of hype about how great our offense would be, we went 5-11. I think I'll take a wait and see approach

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Last time I heard alot of hype about how great our offense would be, we went 5-11. I think I'll take a wait and see approach

Yeah I can remember how excited I was when we signed ARE and B Lloyd...

They said we had one of the best recieving corps in the NFL

:doh:

[skinsfanno9]

Wait a sec. Hold the phones. Are we assuming that these rookie receivers are going to have Marques Colston-like impact here??? All of them????

Isn't it far more likely that 1, 2 or all 3 of them take a few years or three to develop?

I'm not trying to burst bubbles here or anything but seriously - receivers just take time to develop.

[Blackest Eyes]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see Roy Wiliams try to cover Kelly in the slot.

Roy Williams trying to cover anything is worth watching.

[ironviet]

Look no one is claiming these guys will hit stride right off the bat. At the same time, we are not expecting these guys to come in and start. I know they will not start unless there is an injury. Most teams draft WR's in the first 2 rounds expecting them to replace the current crop of receivers. We on the other hand drafted 1st rd prospects to play backups. Expectations and pressure will be lower for them to make an immediate impact. So what I am hoping for is that these guys will come in and be one of the best 3rd and 4th wr's in the league. Is that too wishful thinking? I don't think so. You pessimistic people think I'm claiming we are going to the super bowl. Maybe if you read my first sentence, this is all hypothetical scenario that they are contributors and if this is the case than our opponents will have their hands full.

[PatBoland]

This year we will see what Campbell is made. There will be no excuses if campbell doesn't produce with all this talent. The way Campbell plays will determine how potent this offense can be. Imagine if the patriots drafted Thomas, DAvis and Kelly everyone would say, "another perfect season". Campbell needs to step up :fingersx:

Zorn has been quoted as saying that it takes a quarterback 3 years to completely operate his system... so i really don't like hearing that campbell has to dominate this year. Yeah i want him to do well and I think he'll be a good QB, but lets not start saying he has to step up this season. Give him some time. This is his 7th offense in 8 years. JC is going to need time to really be able to control this offense. So stop saying there are no excuses if Campbell doesn't produce this year... and with this talent... our rookies will take a few years to develop as well. Just like someone else on this board said... they can't all be colston in year one. So relax skins fans... hope for a good year, but be patient.

GO SKINS

[wysknz1]

Also, don't forget. Zorn has already mentioned putting Portis and Bettes in the backfield at the same time too.

[PosseLover]

I like JC, but I can't help but hate his decision making at times. Maybe it was Gibbs in one ear and Saunders in the other, I hope anyway. I reckon we'll find out...I can see Colt as our QB in 2010 maybe '09 if JC struggles this season.

[PatBoland]

I like JC, but I can't help but hate his decision making at times. Maybe it was Gibbs in one ear and Saunders in the other, I hope anyway. I reckon we'll find out...I can see Colt as our QB in 2010 maybe '09 if JC struggles this season.

Colt starting in the next two years... I give that a 0.01% chance

[SonnyJ]

I'm actually wondering if Zorn is thinking more along the lines of a Colts-type offense or the Patriots flavor of the Run-n-Shoot, rather than a pure WCO like Holmgren is known for. Granted, it's the triggerman on those teams that make those systems successful, but we can always hope Campbell turns out the same... :fingersx:

Whatever, it seems that the emphasis is going to be on the QB getting the ball out of his hands quickly. That, more than anything, will do wonders for the pass protection.

[jsmith2003]

We need to first establish that Kelly and Thomas can ball, once we insert them into the offense in preseason and they have some decent catches/games, we can then put the threat out there of the 4 & 5 WR sets. I can't wait to see that 4 WR set out there, with one back, and opposing Defenses then scramble to bring in the dime package, with CP just SMILING the whole time behind QB... Get em thinking pass, then let CP bang right out there.... Once we can make it a point that we can do both equally well out of any package, that's when we will really create mismatches. Get teams guessing on what we are going to do, let them bring out 2 CB's when we have a 3 WR set with one TE and HB and then let JC audible at the line dependant on what it looks like they are defending, throw the receivers in motion, get em thinking pass, then BANG there goes CP again. Then bring in the 2WR/2TE/1FB combo for a mixture as well. We can run or pass in these situations with equal success, once we get the Defenses NOT KNOWING WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO.... That's the whole point here. The Defenses (WHILE I PERSONALLY LOVE JOE GIBBS) pretty much knew we were going to Run Run Pass most all the time last year. And most our formations even with the 700-page playbook were pretty much guessable on what we would do... And that you cannot have in today's NFL... Used to, with the HOG OLINE, we could tell them - "hey D, we're going to run right, or left, or up the gut here" and we could commit to it and pull it off, but you cannot now pull that off. Defenses are what win championships this day and age, and if you can keep the defense on it's heels, and guessing that is how you are going to win, and WIN BIG.... I look forward to what we will see by mid season. If the line can stay healthy, and our D can hold up like last year, we will be pretty formiddable.... Here's to HEALTH and HOPE!!

HAIL!!

[Swift]

Um -- hate to play devil's advocate here but the combo of mediocre pass protection and a 9 step drop/delayed throwing motion means if JC has no time to check down or can't hit the open guy, it doesn't matter how many weapons are out there running routes...footwork, throwing motion and a healthy line = moving chains (ref: green bay's fortunate and unheralded 2007 receiving corps for evidence) -- don't forget, it was TC who proved most efficient last year -- then again, that was the old system -- time, coaching and practice will tell how advantageous a bigger arsenal will be for JC -- the more experience he gets the slower the game seems to him -- let's see if a faster, more efficient system meets him in the middle. That said, we could have Jerry Rice, Charley Taylor, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison in our set and if the guy can't hit em, the guy can't hit em.

In re match ups -- if the trenches are the ballgame, our OL is a year older and still nursing injuries while our own division boasts younger, faster, more versatile, quality DL's -- that's 6 games to sweat right off the bat. Yes, we might have a better receiving corps (in theory, on paper, hypothetically, etc) than our opponents' back 7 or 8 but, again, if the QB has no time to throw, what good are they?

- FUF

Good points, but I think our O-line will be fine for the next 1-2 years (we do definitely need to address the O-line in the next draft).

I'm not as worried about pass protection as I am about Campbell's accuracy. That's why I think the acquisition of taller receivers was a smart choice -- Campbell needs bigger targets who can fight for and come down with the ball. Kelly in particular looks like he can do just that.

For once, I'm actually optimistic about our offense. I'm wondering if our defense will be able to hold up though, without GW, Taylor (RIP), Rogers, and possibly Rocky.

[corrupt3d]

I dont think you all realize, Fred Davis can rush the passer.




J/K, but I do like the analysis.

[RenegadeTK]

sounds great in theory. the question is whether our rooks will be able to get on the field and have an impact this year. we've all got our fingers crossed. could you imagine having two 6+ footers on either side of the formation with santana in the slot.... defenses would be terrified.

[corrupt3d]

sounds great in theory. the question is whether our rooks will be able to get on the field and have an impact this year. we've all got our fingers crossed. could you imagine having two 6+ footers on either side of the formation with santana in the slot.... defenses would be terrified.



imagine the same thing with ARE on the other side too.

[RenegadeTK]

imagine the same thing with ARE on the other side too.

man..... i cant wait, i hate the offseason.

[MartinC]

Also, don't forget. Zorn has already mentioned putting Portis and Bettes in the backfield at the same time too.

You hear that kind of talk a lot from Coaches with 2 good HB's around May. By September its all forgotten and they play a FB, 2nd TE or 3rd WR. The only time Portis and Betts will be on the field together in the regular season is when they sing the national anthem.

The match up I think is really nice is what we can do with Davis and Cooley both on the field together. We can line up in an ACE formation with two TE's tight and Portis as the HB.

The D is pretty much forced to play that with its base D assuming its 1st and 10 of 2nd and 6.

You can then shift both Cooley and Davis into the slot and go with a 4 wide look and you automatically have either Davis or Cooley (almost certainly Davis) matched up 1-2-1 with an OLB which should be a mismatch.

[corrupt3d]

I like JC, but I can't help but hate his decision making at times. Maybe it was Gibbs in one ear and Saunders in the other, I hope anyway. I reckon we'll find out...I can see Colt as our QB in 2010 maybe '09 if JC struggles this season.



Colt? Starting? IF JC struggles this year and then next year, we draft a QB.


We dont give the reins to Colt.

[XxSpearheadxX]

I think our current personnel is ideal for killing cover 2 defenses...

And defenses who can't play a sacagawean...

A what now?

[corrupt3d]

A what now?



someone who is an expert with Sacagawea

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sacagawean



EDIT: How that pertains, I'm not quite sure