New Skinscast Episode - 2008 Draft Breakdown

[JimmiJo]

http://skinscast.com - click on link for new show

The guys do their first show in two months, coming together to breakdown and grade the 2008 Redskins Draft.

It's an hour of Redskins' talk and we guarantee it beats a hammer to the head.

[Soup]

Great, I was wondering where the podcast went.

[redskin faithful]

Great. thanks for posting

[JimmiJo]

Great, I was wondering where the podcast went.

Blame it on no FA signings...

:)

[sknsrbck26]

Good show....except John, and Murf got the draft wrong, I think Refkin (sp?) got it right. But it was a good show.....

[JimmiJo]

Good show....except John, and Murf got the draft wrong, I think Refkin (sp?) got it right. But it was a good show.....

Wow, a first, someone agreeing with Reffkin.

:)

Thanks for listening.

[themurf]

Good show....except John, and Murf got the draft wrong, I think Refkin (sp?) got it right. But it was a good show.....

Saying JimmiJo got the draft wrong is to be expected. But if you're going to say I got it wrong, you're going to need you to explain your case. My stance is the Redskins took three pass catchers when they have much bigger needs elsewhere -- especially on an aging and injury-prone offensive line. And since at least 50 percent of highly-drafted wide outs drafted don't pan out, the team is basically saying either Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly isn't going to make it, so we'll play it safe and take them both.

Moving on, the tight end might end up being great, but he fancies himself a playmaker, which means if he and Cooley are on the field at the same time, that's two more people who won't be able to keep defenders off of Jason Campbell. So there won't be enough footballs to go around in an offense featuring three new pass catchers on top of Moss, Randle El, Cooley, Sellers and Portis, and the offensive line could very well struggle to stay healthy and buy Campbell enough time to get the ball to all of these talented folks downfield. Other than that though, this draft was an A+.

Look, I'm one of the biggest homers this team has in its pocket. But I'm also capable of seeing potential problems down the line that, for one reason or another, the front office chose not to address.

[JimmiJo]

Saying JimmiJo got the draft wrong is to be expect.

You only say that because it's true.

Other than that you are a complete moron.

[JimmiJo]

You only say that because it's true.

Other than that you are a complete moron.

And BTW, Murf points that out because in this week's episode during a rant I kept saying how Merling was drafted one pick ahead of one of our 2nds, when it was Calais Campbell.

Whoops.

[sknsrbck26]

Saying JimmiJo got the draft wrong is to be expected. But if you're going to say I got it wrong, you're going to need you to explain your case. My stance is the Redskins took three pass catchers when they have much bigger needs elsewhere -- especially on an aging and injury-prone offensive line. And since at least 50 percent of highly-drafted wide outs drafted don't pan out, the team is basically saying either Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly isn't going to make it, so we'll play it safe and take them both.

Moving on, the tight end might end up being great, but he fancies himself a playmaker, which means if he and Cooley are on the field at the same time, that's two more people who won't be able to keep defenders off of Jason Campbell. So there won't be enough footballs to go around in an offense featuring three new pass catchers on top of Moss, Randle El, Cooley, Sellers and Portis, and the offensive line could very well struggle to stay healthy and buy Campbell enough time to get the ball to all of these talented folks downfield. Other than that though, this draft was an A+.

Look, I'm one of the biggest homers this team has in its pocket. But I'm also capable of seeing potential problems down the line that, for one reason or another, the front office chose not to address.


Well when Campbell (DE Miami) was sitting there and we took the TE, I myself was wondering what was going on. We need to look at this way...our WRs were the worst at getting TDs, and getting three redzone targets, we will score more tds. I don't see the need at DE that most everyone is talking about. Daniels can stop the run, while we have Wilson that can be a sack guy. Dts we are set. I like the CB we got in the fourth round. Weren't we teh last team to have a WR score a touchdown...and when that did happen..wasn't it James Thrash? Your favorite player Murf:D

Now on the o-line, we are aging,but we now have solid depth. We have Hayer (sp) that can play backup tackle, while having our newest addition play guard/center. Remember we also have Fabini (who held his own last year). Not sure if we kept Wade, but if we did, we have plenty of depth.

[moviedude25]

Awesome! Thanks

[TheLongshot]

Saying JimmiJo got the draft wrong is to be expected. But if you're going to say I got it wrong, you're going to need you to explain your case. My stance is the Redskins took three pass catchers when they have much bigger needs elsewhere -- especially on an aging and injury-prone offensive line. And since at least 50 percent of highly-drafted wide outs drafted don't pan out, the team is basically saying either Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly isn't going to make it, so we'll play it safe and take them both.

An alternate view is that the team has seen both Moss and ARE miss parts of the past two seasons and want depth to cover that in case it happens again. It is as valid as your view.


Moving on, the tight end might end up being great, but he fancies himself a playmaker, which means if he and Cooley are on the field at the same time, that's two more people who won't be able to keep defenders off of Jason Campbell. So there won't be enough footballs to go around in an offense featuring three new pass catchers on top of Moss, Randle El, Cooley, Sellers and Portis, and the offensive line could very well struggle to stay healthy and buy Campbell enough time to get the ball to all of these talented folks downfield. Other than that though, this draft was an A+.

Cooley spent a lot of time staying in to block last year, particularly early on. This will at least give some options, even if Davis isn't much of a blocker as of yet. Where the benefits really come is in the Red Zone, where teams can't just focus on Cooley anymore.

Jason

[Dick Edds]

... where teams can't just focus on Cooley anymore.

Jason

bingo, and we didn't seem to have problems getting into scoring position, it was that we couldn't do anything once we got there.

I imagine Fred Davis will only help this issue, dude is a hoss.

[SkinsNatsFan]

And BTW, Murf points that out because in this week's episode during a rant I kept saying how was drafted one pick ahead of one of our 2nds, when it was .

Whoops.

Yeah, that really changes the dynamics of your argument. There's a big difference between passing on Calais Campbell and passing on Merling. At least in my opinion. Given the correction, do you feel as strongly about passing on Calais Campbell at that point?

My understanding is that they were ready to take DT Trevor Laws with the second of their second round picks, but he was taken by the Eagles just before the Redskins picked.

[JimmiJo]

Yeah, that really changes the dynamics of your argument. There's a big difference between passing on Calais Campbell and passing on Merling. At least in my opinion. Given the correction, do you feel as strongly about passing on Calais Campbell at that point?

Not really. Let me put it this way, for them to come out of the 2nd round with three pass catchers is a wasted opportunity.

Had they taken two WRs and one (insert position here - OL, DE, DT, LB, CB, S) then I am good. Had they taken one WR and one TE and one of the other I am good.

But to take three guys of which only two will see significant playing time (most likely), I don't like it.

[SkinsNatsFan]

Not really. Let me put it this way, for them to come out of the 2nd round with three pass catchers is a wasted opportunity.

Had they taken two WRs and one (insert position here - OL, DE, DT, LB, CB, S) then I am good. Had they taken one WR and one TE and one of the other I am good.

But to take three guys of which only two will see significant playing time (most likely), I don't like it.

Fair enough. If it had been Merling I would agree with you. But based on who was available when they took their 2nd and 3rd picks, I don't have a problem with who they took. I just don't see anyone available at those spots who would be a sure fire starter on defense for the Redskins this year.

It will be interesting how it plays out on the field. Hopefully all three pan out and there are a lot of interchangable parts for the offensive staff to work with.

[JimmiJo]

Fair enough. If it had been Merling I would agree with you. But based on who was available when they took their 2nd and 3rd picks, I don't have a problem with who they took. I just don't see anyone available at those spots who would be a sure fire starter on defense for the Redskins this year.

It will be interesting how it plays out on the field. Hopefully all three pan out and there are a lot of interchangable parts for the offensive staff to work with.

Again, I used the D-end only as an example. I would have settled for the center Indy took, Mike Pollak.

[CounterTrey75]

Can someone help me out and lead me to the episode that was done on video? I can't find it. Thanks.

Edit: I think Moss and CP were guests on that episode.

[Chris0894]

the link on skinscast.com isn't working for me :(

[talk show host]

i stopped listening to it. these guys are all idiots.

if i here anyone say "the giants won the superbowl because of their defensive line" one more time, i'm going to puke.... the giants won on a fluke one in a million catch by plexico.

The patriots went 18-0 and were one play away from winning the superbowl for one reason and one reason only - they had 5 AWESOME receivers and defenses couldnt touch them.

Our offensive line is FINE. in the WCO, the ball is going to be out of campbells hand within 5 steps... not these 7 and 9 step drops gibbs was having campbell do last year. the OL doesn't have ALOT to do.

as far as DL goes, we TRIED to get DL several times but the guys we wanted got taken right before us. our DL wasnt that bad last year... it will get addressed next year.

[Pedro]

I'm a lines first person. Before ANY skill positions including QB. Theory being good lines make skill positions better. More wiggle room before a player is cut.

That being said I just listened to some guys chatting who echoed some important points:

Drafting wide receivers is a crapshoot. ..
50/50 at best...
We need a WR...

Being there's no such thing as a sure thing WR sticking at just Thomas would be a crapshoot. 2 sides to every coin ;)

Next year's draft will be the key indicator for Vinny IMO. Sticking to a preordained board that, in my opinion, will make the owner happy is easy. Can't do this again without losing the new found respect that seams to be going around for Vinny. Hopefully we drafted to a long term plan and not for job security. If we did Vinny's promotion could eclipse Zorn's as the most important thing we did in 2008.


First skinscast I've listened to. Won't be my last. Good job guys.

EDIT: I agree with Murph. Picking a potential pro bowl Punter with a lousy 6th round pick is value IMO. Short fields win/lose games.

[sknsrbck26]

i stopped listening to it. these guys are all idiots.

if i here anyone say "the giants won the superbowl because of their defensive line" one more time, i'm going to puke.... the giants won on a fluke one in a million catch by plexico.

The patriots went 18-0 and were one play away from winning the superbowl for one reason and one reason only - they had 5 AWESOME receivers and defenses couldnt touch them.

Our offensive line is FINE. in the WCO, the ball is going to be out of campbells hand within 5 steps... not these 7 and 9 step drops gibbs was having campbell do last year. the OL doesn't have ALOT to do.

as far as DL goes, we TRIED to get DL several times but the guys we wanted got taken right before us. our DL wasnt that bad last year... it will get addressed next year.


Did you watch the entire game....without the constant harrasement from the Giants D-line they wouldn't have won. Plus there o-line keep pressure away form Eli. Games are won in the trenches....just a fact in the NFL.

[JimmiJo]

i stopped listening to it. these guys are all idiots.

Post of the day!

Ok not really. And coming from you TSH, no surprises.

But as to your comment above, I have to admit that you are 2/3 correct.

[themurf]

i stopped listening to it. these guys are all idiots.

if i here anyone say "the giants won the superbowl because of their defensive line" one more time, i'm going to puke.... the giants won on a fluke one in a million catch by plexico.

as a general rule, you shouldn't call people idiots and then in the very next paragraph make yourself look ... well ... like an idiot. i'm just sayin'.

the giants defense, led mostly by some kid named justin tuck, made brady's life miserable all day long. that is why they won the game. had they not done so, the new york football giants would not have even been in a position to make the "fluke" play you speak of. learn more, speak less. the grown-ups will respect you much more, and maybe even invite you to leave the kid's table and join them.

[JimmiJo]

learn more, speak less. the grown-ups will respect you much more, and maybe even invite you to leave the kid's table and join them.

Yea I don't see that happening.

[SkinsNatsFan]

Again, I used the D-end only as an example. I would have settled for the center Indy took, Mike Pollak.

:laugh: Ah yes, my limited reading comprehension skills rear their ugly head again.

[JimmiJo]

:laugh: Ah yes, my limited reading comprehension skills rear their ugly head again.

:)

Hardly...

[bubba9497]

another classic.....

I laughed, I cried, I messed my pants.....

[JimmiJo]

another classic.....

I laughed, I cried, I messed my pants.....

Hey thanks! Um, I think...

:D

[SkinsNatsFan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8050103761.html

Teams with new head coaches can have two additional voluntary minicamps for veterans. With the Redskins scheduled to open the exhibition season against the Indianapolis Colts in the Hall of Fame game on Aug. 3 in Canton, Ohio, they are preparing to begin training camp early, probably on July 19 or 20. Zorn said he decided to only have one minicamp for veterans and rookies because training camp, which started on July 27 last year, would begin earlier than usual.


So there's the as expected reasoning behind a single mini-camp. It makes sense to me. I'm looking forward to hearing from you guys about what goes on today and this weekend.

[PlayAction]

It's easy to second guess the 2nd round results when you see three pass catchers. But what really were the alternatives? Philip Merling was picked by the Dolphins with the first pick in the second round. He was not available for the Skins with any of their second round picks.

Most everyone is happy with the Devin Thomas pick. Skins needed a new WR (perhaps 2).

The second pick is the major disappointment. In hindsight I wish the Skins had traded up a few spots for the second of their 2nd round picks so we could have gotten Trevor Laws. As it was, the Eagles picked Trevor Laws on pick before the Skins. The alternative to the TE was to pick Calais Campbell or Quentin Groves. The Skins passed on Calais Campbell who was then picked one spot before their 3rd second round pick. Did the Skins really want Calais Campbell? There was only a three pick difference between the second and third of the Skins picks. So it would hardly have been a reach to pick Calais Campbell instead of the TE. If Calais Campbell was graded as a second round DE then they would have gotten fair value even though they would have had to pass on the higher rated TE. If the Campbell's old coach couldn't convince the team to pick him then they must have had some concerns.

The third second round pick presented a conundrum. With the first two picks on a WR and TE who was left to pick? DEs - Quentin Groves, and Jason Jones. Some other WRs. Some QBs. Mike Pollak Center. CBs Patrick Lee, and Terrell Thomas. The DEs don't look like a good fit for the Skins IMO. We didn't need to spend a high pick on a QB. Pollak is an OT that's projected to switch to Center - but Skins could have gotten a true Center in round 4. The only really options other than a third pass catcher were one of the two CBs.

[Jbank31]

I have heard that Calais Campbell was projected by most teams as a three four DE.