So, will ARE stop dancing all nimbly-bimbly on returns now?

[Hubbs]

One of my minor irritations over the past couple of years has been the lack of return on our investment in, well, returns. Punt returns, to be specific, since we seem to be quite happy with Rock taking kickoffs. We were supposed to see a leap in punt return production with the signing of Antwaan Randle El - one of the main arguments for signing him to such a hefty contract was "He's so versatile!" - and yet, he has only one return for a touchdown as a Redskin. More disturbingly, last year he seemed to regress to a player who would dance around half the field horizontally on most returns, netting only three or four yards in the process.

Now, I realize that some of this could very well be blamed on the blocking ARE gets in front of him, and I would agree with anyone who wants to argue that said blocking has been less than tubular (not even gnarly, to be honest). However, the Randle El I remember as a Steeler broke so many big returns because he would immediately pick an angle, burst forward, and make one or two quick cuts along the way. That's rarely happened here.

Seeing as Antwaan will almost assuredly be playing fewer snaps at receiver this year, it seems only natural that he would spend a bit more time working with Danny Smith and focusing on maximizing the value of his touches in the return game. Will we see the same Dancing with the Stars contestant we've seen for the past two years, or will we see a return of the gap-attacking, forward-moving ARE of the Pittsburgh days?

[[[ghost]]]

Minor irritations? That ****ing pissed me off last year. Why dance backwards when you could run like hell Forward?

[skinfan2k]

I rather have James Thrash doing full time duties.

[RammsteinSkins]

I rather have James Thrash doing full time duties.Agreed....One chance he gets and he explodes.

[Hubbs]

]']Minor irritations? That ****ing pissed me off last year. Why dance backwards when you could run like hell Forward?

:laugh:

Well, when you put it that way....

[Hubbs]

I rather have James Thrash doing full time duties.

My memory could very well be wrong here, but aren't you mostly basing off Thrash's one return in the Lions game? Isn't that kind of a small sample size?

[skinfan2k]

My memory could very well be wrong here, but aren't you mostly basing off Thrash's one return in the Lions game? Isn't that kind of a small sample size?

he started his career here doing that as well.

[AAARedskin]

This will be Randel El's last season as a REDSKIN if taller WRs like Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly can show that they are for real. I mean why would he and his SALARY be needed if these young guns emerge? I thought this on draft day, and I had blow-hards on this site telling me how great Randel El is........amazing.

[skinfan2k]

This will be Randel El's last season as a REDSKIN if taller WRs like Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly can show that they are for real. I mean why would he and his SALARY be needed if these young guns emerge? I thought this on draft day, and I had blow-hards on this site telling me how great Randel El is........amazing.

I think both Moss and Randel El are gonna in the next 2 years regardless

[Hubbs]

he started his career here doing that as well.

Well, that was nearly a decade ago by now - I can't say I have a lot of faith in him having enough explosion at, what, 34 years old?

[Burgundy&Gold4Ever]

I rather have James Thrash doing full time duties.

Exactly what I was about to say! I hate watching ARE back there.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

What about Devin Thomas? :whoknows:

[dcnativenerd]

Yeah, that did bother me last season a lot. He had a lot of ample opportunities to make productive gains, only to be stopped deep in our own territory due to a lack of northbound running.

[abu69]

What about Devin Thomas? :whoknows:

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

If you haven't familiarized yourselves with our new punt returner, now's the time.

Some highlights (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AHbkz0IMIeA)

[skinfan2k]

What about Devin Thomas? :whoknows:

I dont want to risk his development as a WR to do punt return. I dont want to open up the season with him but i wouldn't mind a gradually change to him late into the season.

[Hubbs]

This will be Randel El's last season as a REDSKIN if taller WRs like Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly can show that they are for real. I mean why would he and his SALARY be needed if these young guns emerge? I thought this on draft day, and I had blow-hards on this site telling me how great Randel El is........amazing.

Actually, given the contract details, I find it much more likely that this is Santana's last year as a Skin, barring another 2005-like season from him. He counts more against the cap than ARE does next year, and cutting/trading him will create less of a dead cap hit than cutting/trading Antwaan, because Santana has fewer years left on his contract.

[DaRock]

eh, whatever, he's just trying to make a play and to me, he's more of a threat than throwing anyone else back there that can just run forward.

[Hubbs]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

If you haven't familiarized yourselves with our new punt returner, now's the time.

Some highlights (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AHbkz0IMIeA)

Don't be so sure. Not only will Zorn likely want Thomas to spend as much time as possible focusing on becoming a starting wide receiver, but how many here want entrust a rookie to cleanly field punts? More importantly, how many head coaches want to do that?

Imagine us being two games over .500 in December, right in the thick of the divisional race. Tied game, fourth quarter, freezing rain falling in terirble, wintry weather. Opposing crowd screaming, chanting, and trying to do everything possible to intimidate our returner into muffing a punt coming at him in the middle of all that precipitation. And that returner is a rookie, who has quite literally never played in a game this big in his entire life.

I'll take Antwaan, thanks.

[Blackest Eyes]

I was never very happy with ARE's returns last year either. Hopefully this year something will change and he will do a better job.

[TheLongshot]

I rather have James Thrash doing full time duties.

Thrash isn't that great of a returner. When I've seen him back there, most of the time he'd only get a few yards and get stuffed. That one return last year is more of an exception than the rule.

For all the dancing he does, his average is pretty respectable. In 2006, when he was the #3 receiver and was mostly concerned with returning, he averaged 8.8 yards a punt return, which is respectable. I have a feeling him going back to being the slot receiver will benefit him in the return game, because even with all the dancing, he still produces out there.

Jason

[Hubbs]

Thrash isn't that great of a returner. When I've seen him back there, most of the time he'd only get a few yards and get stuffed. That one return last year is more of an exception than the rule.

For all the dancing he does, his average is pretty respectable. In 2006, when he was the #3 receiver and was mostly concerned with returning, he averaged 8.8 yards a punt return, which is respectable. I have a feeling him going back to being the slot receiver will benefit him in the return game, because even with all the dancing, he still produces out there.

Jason

He was better in 2006, no doubt. And unsurprisingly, his biggest return, the touchdown in the Colts game, happened when he shot forward immediately after catching the punt, made one cut to dodge a defender, and took it to the house.

[DCchillin89]

ROCK CARTWRIGHT

the guy needs more touches. he's a great north-south runner...why not just put him back there in the preseason and see what happens...

[McD5]

Open competition, as there should be at every position.

Line em up, and see who wants it.

Competition puts our best guys on the field....give anyone who wants a shot an opportunity in practice.....weed them down to the top 3, then give those three multiple opportunities during the preseason games.

[TheLongshot]

Open competition, as there should be at every position.

Line em up, and see who wants it.

Competition puts our best guys on the field....give anyone who wants a shot an opportunity in practice.....weed them down to the top 3, then give those three multiple opportunities during the preseason games.

Well, I doubt that ARE will take many, if any, balls in the return game in preseason. Same goes with Rock. So, there will be opportunities for young guys to impress.

That being said, I doubt that ARE is going to get unseated as the starting punt returner.

Jason

[ldysknzfn1]

This was a major bone of contention with me last season. I remember numerous times saying..."what is he think he's doing w/all that running around? Just run forward ARE...forward!".


Don't know if I would call it "nimbly-bimbly" tho:laugh: . I think I rather like "helter skelter" ;) :silly:

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

I was also disapointed in ARE's producton as a punt returner last year, but I'm not going to write him off yet. He struggled through injuris last year, and I think maybe that's why we saw more dancing. I remember early inthe season last year at home when we were in the redzone and ARE caught a ball and had a clea path to the endzone. Well one of the DBs from the ther team caught up to him and tackled him on the 2 or 3 yard line I think. With that injury he had last year, I think his usual burst of speed wasn't there. So I thik maybe he tried dancing a litte more than just turning on the jets. I wanna give him another chance and see what he can do. I'm also excited to see him in the WCO. Since YAC are a huge part of the system, who better to have than ARE catching the ball in field and gettng some yards. I think he stepped up and played well for us when Moss was out. He still has explosive play ability in him. I wanna see what he can do this year. I'm certainly rooting for him to have a good year.

[terpskins10]

Open competition, as there should be at every position.

Line em up, and see who wants it.

Competition puts our best guys on the field....give anyone who wants a shot an opportunity in practice.....weed them down to the top 3, then give those three multiple opportunities during the preseason games.

I agree about open competition, and there should be at every position. Except running back. :laugh:

[Hubbs]

I agree about open competition, and there should be at every position. Except running back. :laugh:

Shhhh, don't say that to McD, this will turn into a 300-post thread about Betts.

[RandyHolt]

ARE is average on punt returns and does not fumbe. I think Moss should be returning punts, Thrash is a coverage guy. Certainly in our playoff games Gibbs could have used Moss a la D. Green and choose not to and left me wondering why not. For those that think we cant risk Moss getting injured, I thought we risked getting him injured more often being a number one WR at 5-9 185. He did get injured as a 1 and I for one think he should be returning punts in big games if ARE is not producing.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I dont want to risk his development as a WR to do punt return. I dont want to open up the season with him but i wouldn't mind a gradually change to him late into the season.Agreed. :applause:

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Don't be so sure. Not only will Zorn likely want Thomas to spend as much time as possible focusing on becoming a starting wide receiver, but how many here want entrust a rookie to cleanly field punts? More importantly, how many head coaches want to do that?

Imagine us being two games over .500 in December, right in the thick of the divisional race. Tied game, fourth quarter, freezing rain falling in terirble, wintry weather. Opposing crowd screaming, chanting, and trying to do everything possible to intimidate our returner into muffing a punt coming at him in the middle of all that precipitation. And that returner is a rookie, who has quite literally never played in a game this big in his entire life.

I'll take Antwaan, thanks.Given that situation, yes, DT isn't the best option. Barring that however, as skinfan2k said, I believe that Thomas is a longer-term solution who should be developed.

[abu69]

I dont want to risk his development as a WR to do punt return. I dont want to open up the season with him but i wouldn't mind a gradually change to him late into the season.

**** that. Risk his development? We need some gamebreakers out there; he needs to develop into a great WR and a great kick returner. I don't see how one cuts into the other, frankly.

If he can't handle a little of everything, he's not the stud we all hope he will be. Let the kid play! I doubt he'll have any objections.

[Peregrine]

Better question: Will we start blocking on punt returns?

Until we do, even if ARE goes straight ahead we will get about 2 yards per return.

[TheLongshot]

People seem to not realize that Thomas didn't really return punts at Michigan State. Other than playing receiver, he mostly returned kicks. To assume that he's a great option for Punt returns is a big assumption by some.

Jason

[Hubbs]

Given that situation, yes, DT isn't the best option. Barring that however, as skinfan2k said, I believe that Thomas is a longer-term solution who should be developed.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much of a solution Thomas really is. I know he returned punts for Michigan State last year, but he doesn't seem to fit the usual mold of a punt returner.

[Pedro]

Early in the season players like Rock and Tryon should be returning Kicks/Punts.

Later in the season when/if Thomas and Kelly start getting to grips with the NFL, and assuming no injuries to Moss and Randle-El, we can put Moss/Randle-El/Thomas in for Kick/Punt returns if we feel we would get significantly more production from them.

Until such time I'd rather our WR corps concentrate on the passing game with only an occasional return just to keep current in the role.

[Forever21]

I'll take ARE over Thrash any day. At least ARE is a THREAT to do something and has to keep the punt coverage honest. Thrash is at most a threat to get 15 yards. ARE is our best option at punt return right now and is a threat to score every time he touches it. I'm not saying he didn't dance around a bit too much last year. I'm just saying that he's the best we got.

[Laxpunk2006]

I dont want to risk his development as a WR to do punt return. I dont want to open up the season with him but i wouldn't mind a gradually change to him late into the season.
That's an interesting concern but I don't think it's a real issue. A lot of WR's start off as KR/PR's just to get on the field while they develop their route running or whatever it is they need to transition with.

Steve Smith, Santana Moss, ARE, Wes Welker. Lot's of players do it, and it doesn't seem to hurt.


I personally think Moss should be back there. Not every return but in big games our playmakers need the ball. Sure it exposes him to more chances to get hurt, but he's already hurt all the time anyway so why not get some production out of him. Especially if our new WR's can make some kind of contribution this year there should be less reliance on Moss as a WR.

[TheLongshot]

That's an interesting concern but I don't think it's a real issue. A lot of WR's start off as KR/PR's just to get on the field while they develop their route running or whatever it is they need to transition with.

Steve Smith, Santana Moss, ARE, Wes Welker. Lot's of players do it, and it doesn't seem to hurt.

Actually, the main reason why starters are usually pulled from doing return work is that they don't want the additional workload to wear a player down. There might also be injury concerns as well, but I think it is more the former.

Then again, there are still a few starters who play a lot of special teams, like Marcus Washington.

Jason

[[[ghost]]]

I dont want to risk his development as a WR to do punt return. I dont want to open up the season with him but i wouldn't mind a gradually change to him late into the season.

I actually think that its a great way to get him involved early. It'll take him some time to adjust to the DBs in the NFL. Him returning punts will only help his development as a WR.

[Chanhillbilly]

Returning kicks isn't all about speed. Its also about hitting holes, reading the field and following blockers. B. Mitch was never considered to have blazing speed but made a career out of returning kicks and punts. Desmond Howard who looked like he played wearing cement shoes (or clown shoes if you like) here in D.C., but managed to shine a few times in GB on returns (granted I think it was due to fact everyone had been blocked and was on ground and he just ran around the bodies). Thrash has it in him still to return kicks, and play special teams. He just doesn't have it in him to be a receiver.

ARE has no business returning kicks with the dancing around.

[Fight for ole DC]

ARE is no good at returning punts. I have screemed at the TV so many times watching him dance around, then get tackled after a 2 yard pickup. We have to get more production out of that spot this year.

[Recent Vintage]

I'm pretty sure Danny Smith said in a couple interviews that they were trying to block some punts and that's why ARE was having such a hard time... Less blockers for the return.

[eljeasel]

ARE is no good at returning punts. I have screemed at the TV so many times watching him dance around, then get tackled after a 2 yard pickup. We have to get more production out of that spot this year.

I wouldnt go so far as to say hes no good because he has had some success in the return game just last year he was completely ineffective. Not really sure why that is, I leave that to those who specialize in special teams strategy

[ucfSKINS]

I rather have James Thrash doing full time duties.

Damn skippy! James may not have the speed that ARE does, but he catches the ball and runs like the police are chasin him. If ARE doens't change his pansy returns, I say we put in ol Thrash.

[Hubbs]

I'm pretty sure Danny Smith said in a couple interviews that they were trying to block some punts and that's why ARE was having such a hard time... Less blockers for the return.

Wouldn't that be true about any team?

[downbeat87]

i would think zorn will be as open with punt returns as his is about everything else. but i think el is the best option... its not like he forgot how to run straight.

[pjfootballer]

Yeah, as [Ghost] said, it was more than a minor irritation. ARE needs to stop dancing, hit the hole and take the 7 yards, because one time, he might break a tackle and go all the way. It was a MAJOR irritation.

[Skinsinparadise]

Randle El seems to be a tale of two cities out there. Gutsy WR who isn't afraid to take a hit and was clutch in big games. Last season as a PR, the guy to me looked plain scared & didn't want to take a hit. Besides those dinky 3-4 yard returns, there were plenty of times where he'd call fair catch and let the ball go when he should have gotten after the ball -- he was as conservative as it gets as PR -- IMO.

[downbeat87]

see thats where i think your onto something. were once again going back to the c-word in this era. mybe feild positioning was a bit more important for joe, thus fair catches and play it safe returns?? i dunno, i think we will be a bit more aggressive with what we have this year.

[Hubbs]

see thats where i think your onto something. were once again going back to the c-word in this era. mybe feild positioning was a bit more important for joe, thus fair catches and play it safe returns?? i dunno, i think we will be a bit more aggressive with what we have this year.

It's hard for me to imagine Gibbs telling ARE how much dancing to do on returns.

[downbeat87]

i dont think he said dance, but the combination of the punt blocking attempts and joes worrying about turnovers on returns led to a much more all around conservative look.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

ARE would best use his speed and athletic ability by picking one angle, running like hell straight forward and making people miss that way. All dancing around does is allow defenses to reach to where you are, surround you and envelop you.