America's Future: Your Opinion Goes Here

[Vicious]

I was watching Ted Koppel on the daily show today and he said that this is one of the first times America has went to war and has not raised taxes. Thus we have borrowed the money to pay for it. Japan has 28 percent and China has something like 24 percent. He said that is one of the reasons our dollar is falling. He also stated that they are not in collection mode because we are currently their biggest market. He also said that China has nearly 300 million in middle class citizens and is growing.

We are all aware that China is slowly but surely becoming a capitalistic society. As seen by the growth of a middle class. They've got a billion people folks. If they fix their food problem with the technology that is now growing exponentially, we suddenly will not be their biggest market. Really folks, we're in a bunch of debt, we're at war, we didn't raise taxes to pay for it, other countries took up our debt. What are America's prospects if it continues this course and how will it remain the best country in the world? Will it be? I'd like to hear some of your guys opinions. Maybe some things you think we'll be doing differently in the future, maybe some things that are simply going to change on their own due to the cyclical nature of recessions.. does currency fall during a recession? Anyway the general topic is America's future.

[zoony]

Anyway the general topic is America's future.


It would make sense to put that in your thread title

[Baculus]

Well, I am not sure where to start with this topic since it really involves quite a few issues.

Personally, I believe the idea of borrowing money from foreign powers to pay for a war is a stupendously bad move, with consequences that cannot be good for our currency.

We are going to have to address this issue in the near future, or it is certain to have a negative outcome.

[skinfan13]

oh my, this is something I've been screaming about for at least 3 years now, which may surprise some because I'm only 18 years old.


we've been borrowing massive sums of money for a long time, not just for our current war, but for our budget in general. what Ted said on the Daily Show is a snapshot of what we all ought to be very affraid of. China has over $1.4 Trillion in outstanding US treasury bonds. thats about 1/7 of our GDP. (and thats just china)

If China all of a sudden said, "we want our money back" we'd be like, "ughhmmmm yeaaaa, we kinda don't have it." which opens very bad doors for our future. China would either cripple our economy back to the 1840's or would start a war with us to get even or something like that. or we would have to start a war for our survival.

anyways, there's no positive way to look at this, and blaming Bush entirely (but God knows hes done SOO much to compound the problem) isn't neccisarily the right thing to do, its been a problem for a while.

[SpringfieldSkins]

Every empire has to fall sometime.


It's as much the Democrats fault as it is the Republicans.

[Vicious]

It would make sense to put that in your thread title

fixed!

[chipwhich]

oh my, this is something I've been screaming about for at least 3 years now, which may surprise some because I'm only 18 years old.


we've been borrowing massive sums of money for a long time, not just for our current war, but for our budget in general. what Ted said on the Daily Show is a snapshot of what we all ought to be very affraid of. China has over $1.4 Trillion in outstanding US treasury bonds. thats about 1/7 of our GDP. (and thats just china)

If China all of a sudden said, "we want our money back" we'd be like, "ughhmmmm yeaaaa, we kinda don't have it." which opens very bad doors for our future. China would either cripple our economy back to the 1840's or would start a war with us to get even or something like that. or we would have to start a war for our survival.

anyways, there's no positive way to look at this, and blaming Bush entirely (but God knows hes done SOO much to compound the problem) isn't neccisarily the right thing to do, its been a problem for a while.

To keep the thread "real"

We borrow money for everything.

If Obama is in charge, his plan involves borrowing money.

So does McCain. He is plan involves borrowing money.

So lets not make this a democrat vs republican debate.

They are all borrowing money.

[skinfan13]

Every empire has to fall sometime.


It's as much the Democrats fault as it is the Republicans. exactly, we were meant to be a republic, not an empire. and the sooner we re-realize that the better

[skinfan13]

To keep the thread "real"

We borrow money for everything.

If Obama is in charge, his plan involves borrowing money.

So does McCain. He is plan involves borrowing money.

So lets not make this a democrat vs republican debate.

They are all borrowing money. well, I didn't make it democrats vs. republicans... I even said that they've all been borrowing money for a long time, soooo where exactly did I make it partisan? my criticism is in fact based upon the fact that we should not be borrowing and living beyond our means.:2cents:

[Baculus]

To keep the thread "real"

We borrow money for everything.

If Obama is in charge, his plan involves borrowing money.

So does McCain. He is plan involves borrowing money.

So lets not make this a democrat vs republican debate.

They are all borrowing money.

Well, we have "tax and spend" Democrats vs. "borrow and spend" Republicans, which is why the debt, due to borrowing capital, has increased under presidents such as Reagan and Bush, especially due to supply-side "borrow and spend" economics.

[FanboyOf91]

The wasting of the Clinton-era budget surpluses will stick with Bush for the rest of his life. Historians have it easy calling that one.

[chipwhich]

Well, we have "tax and spend" Democrats vs. "borrow and spend" Republicans, which is why the debt, due to borrowing capital, has increased under presidents such as Reagan and Bush, especially due to supply-side "borrow and spend" economics.

Describe it how you wish.

I saw Dennis Kucinich talking about the money we will "save" pulling out of the war will pay for universal health care.

Dems and Republicans HOWEVER they accumulate their money, involves borrowing more than they are taking in.

Try running your household that way year after year.

[chipwhich]

well, I didn't make it democrats vs. republicans... I even said that they've all been borrowing money for a long time, soooo where exactly did I make it partisan? my criticism is in fact based upon the fact that we should not be borrowing and living beyond our means.:2cents:

Didn't say you made it partisan, but the partisan machine will come into the thread and somehow imply "their" party doesn't operate at a deficite which is laughable.

[skinfan13]

Didn't say you made it partisan, but the partisan machine will come into the thread and somehow imply "their" party doesn't operate at a deficite which is laughable. exactly. its not about fiscal responsibility, its "who can we throw money at this election?"

in general, theres not much difference anymore about fiscal policy between todays conservatives and todays liberals, its about where money is allocated.

its been said: "today's liberals are yesterday's socialists, today's conservatives are yesterday's liberals, and today's libertarians are yesterday's conservatives"

edit: I've said it in a different thread, but I'll say it again; doesn't it feel like every election your being marketed a product, or being sold a car? 'vote NOW and we'll include doctor visits, absolutely free!*' or 'Vote for X candidate and you will recieve LOWER and IMPROVED Gas prices!**'

* product is not free and will cost the taxpayer dearly

** not necisarily in the next 5 years, nor does this plan for the future when gas runs out.

[chipwhich]

exactly. its not about fiscal responsibility, its "who can we throw money at this election?"

in general, theres not much difference anymore about fiscal policy between todays conservatives and todays liberals, its about where money is allocated.

its been said: "today's liberals are yesterday's socialists, today's conservatives are yesterday's liberals, and today's libertarians are yesterday's conservatives"

Glad to see someone your age understands the basics of fiscal responsibility. That is not the norm.

It's not a partisan problem, it's a much larger issue.

[Baculus]

Describe it how you wish.

I saw Dennis Kucinich talking about the money we will "save" pulling out of the war will pay for universal health care.

Dems and Republicans HOWEVER they accumulate their money, involves borrowing more than they are taking in.

Try running your household that way year after year.

Oh, I will certainly agree that both parties borrow money in their efforts. But increases in national debt have tended to occur, in recent years, during Republican administrations.

This isn't describing it "how I wish"- it is reality.

The phrase, "tax and spend" Democrats is an old term, often used in a negative fashion. And, while I do not care much for taxation, it is preferable to levy money via taxation as opposed to borrowing the funds (since you have to pay the loan plus interest, and considering that much of federally-raised tax money is used to pay back just the interest on the national debt).

Of course, part of the debate is to how much funds should be levied via taxes, and in what manner, and whether or not this manner is justified. (I don't want to give the impression that I support a great deal of taxation...)

[Burgold]

Baculus is right. Modern Republicans are less fiscally responsible than Paris Hilton after a night of partying and binging.

In recent years, say since Clinton, the Dems have been about balanced budgets and pay as you go. Republicans have advocated a credit card philosophy and paying the minimum all the while bouncing checks.



What is the difference?

Clinton= balanced budget, plus surpluses.
Bush= historically high debt, terribly low dollar, inflation.

Right now. This moment. Republicans don't get the luxury of sharing the blame. It was budgets penned by a Republican President, approved by a Republican Congress that took us from balance and surplus to debt.

And to compare election day promises to reality is silly. Republicans deserve 75% of the credit for the mess we are in today. You don't get the luxury of saying, "They're all the same when you control everything, did everything in your power to shut out all the voices on the other side, and made poor decision after poor decision.

[twa]

Spare me the balanced budget partisan BS :laugh:

When the people demanded it, spending was cut.

IF we demand it again,it will be once again

However you cannot fight two wars,expand healthcare benefits,pursue wholesale changes in fuel supply,send 600 billion a year overseas for oil without cutting somewhere or deficit spending or massive tax increases.

America's future is what we make of it.

[Burgold]

However you cannot fight two wars,expand healthcare benefits,pursue wholesale changes in fuel supply,send 600 billion a year overseas for oil without cutting somewhere or deficit spending or massive tax increases.


And we very consciously didn't do either. In fact, we cut taxes and massively increased spending. If we look at modern history, the last 30 years, that is the definintion of the Republican economic strategy.

[twa]

And we very consciously didn't do either. In fact, we cut taxes and massively increased spending. If we look at modern history, the last 30 years, that is the definintion of the Republican economic strategy.

By the choices WE made,deficit spending was inevitable in the short term.

Tax receipts are also at a high.

When we will reduce spending and where?...or will we? :rolleyes:

[Burgold]

By the choices WE made,deficit spending was inevitable in the short term.

Tax receipts are also at a high.

When we will reduce spending and where?...or will we? :rolleyes:

We will never reduce spending with a Republican majority. At least not with the majority as it is currently constituated with the mindset it presently holds.

It is a "we" because the Congress represents all of us, but that does not excuse the reckless overspending, mismanagement, and fiscal irresponsibility of those with a potent majority over the last two administrations.

The Dems when they have their turn, I fear will disappoint as well, but Republicans do not... after six years of closing the door, turning off the lights and microphones, and not allowing any democratic ideas be voiced have the right to say... the blame must be shared equally. You bullied your way into the bed, stole all the covers, had an accident... lie in your poop. Soon, we will have to clean up your mess... as Clinton did with Reagan and Bush.

[twa]

Soon, we will have to clean up your mess... as Clinton did with Reagan and Bush.

Revise history much? :laugh:

[Burgold]

Revise history much? :laugh:

I knew that would get you :laugh:

I'm playing a little bit, although Clinton did have to clean up the defecits and recessions that were a legacy of the Reagan and Bush years.

What bugs me is this...

Republicans never seem to take ownership or to admit responsibility for their messes. 4 years ago, all you heard on talk radio for example was how the Democrats and liberals were at fault for all the ills of the country. And all the current difficulties were completely their fault, despite them being the minority party and a weak majority at that.

Fast forward to today when it's impossible to deny that the country needs to be re-tracked. Still, they don't take responsibility. They say Bush isn't a real Republican. He's not a real Conservative. And if there are problems the Dems are just as much to blame and they all suck equally.

This has caused me to lose respect for quite a few people who espouse Republican values. How can fix a problem if you can't acknowledge your role in it? If there is no ability to self-reflect or self-diagnose, then there can be no improvement except by accident. And that has been the biggest problem in the Republican led Bush years.

[USS Redskins]

We are all doomed. Didnt everyone know that?
Its an election year and everything is falling apart at the seams, just like it was in 2000, 1992, 1988, 1984, 1980, 1976, 1972, etc....

[Thiebear]

We get the shale and oil and solar going we cut 600+ billion per year. (balanced trade).
We export some shale and oil and solar tech we make money.
We tax everyone over 20k 17%. The rich currently dont pay 17% if they got CPA's. (its fair to repubs/more money from the rich for dems)

done. just pencil me in Nov 2nd.

[twa]

We get the shale and oil and solar going we cut 600+ billion per year. (balanced trade).
We export some shale and oil and solar tech we make money.
We tax everyone over 20k 17%. The rich currently dont pay 17% if they got CPA's. (its fair to repubs/more money from the rich for dems)

done. just pencil me in Nov 2nd.

Works for me

Perhaps THIS is the way to get around the NIMBY environuts? ;)

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/11/local/me-oil11

It will be the first time in 39 years that one group, Get Oil Out, or GOO, has supported oil drilling. The group was formed by Santa Barbara County residents horrified by the gooey crude that coated their beaches after the 1969 offshore platform blowout.

Abe Powell, president of GOO, said it took “blood, sweat and tears” for his board members to abandon their historic role.

“Once we realized that we had put together a good deal for the community, we got it together,” he said.

[Chachie]

Well, we have "tax and spend" Democrats vs. "borrow and spend" Republicans, which is why the debt, due to borrowing capital, has increased under presidents such as Reagan and Bush, especially due to supply-side "borrow and spend" economics.



Bingo. I know we all hate paying taxes but I'd rather buy my own stuff outright than finance anything. (Even if it's things my gov't/population wants that I may not be in favor of.) We should think of things the same way at the global level.

[Ken]

The future of America is bleak at best.

We will see our stock market plummett into the 7s in the next couple of years and it will ultimately go further than that. Take into account the devaluation of the dollar (which will become extinct) and that 11,400 we sit at now, really is around 7k anyway. So enjoy all of those 401ks and mutual funds which are hot air.

We will be in a full fledged DEPRESSION that will be worse than 1929.

We will see some sort of catastrophic event, be it " terrorism" or a natural disaster that will trigger martial law that we will not come out of. Tyranny will take hold and the police state we now live in will be magnified.

Of course, this all only happens if the American People don't wake up and see how they are being manipulated. I don't have much hope for that happening though, based on how the general public is lead around by the nose.

Sorry for the morbid outlook but it needs to be said.

[SolidSnake84]

I agree with ken wholeheartedly.

We are months away from a depression that would make the "great" depression of 1929 look like just a bad day. People will be unemployed in the millions because of Gas Prices that force businesses to shut down.

Oil is almost 150 a barrell right now and its not even in the dead of summer yet. Analysts are saying as much as $250.00 a barrell or more by the end of 2009, maybe even before if several key nations cut oil production.

We're doomed

[SkinsHokieFan]

This is all I need to see

http://perotcharts.com/images/challenges/challenges29-640.png

[endzone_dave]

I think the gap between the have's and the have-not's is only going to get larger as globalization continues. If you can help pharmaceutical companies design drugs, help launch spacecraft into space, or help develop faster computer chips, you'll do fine. If all you can do is work a cash register at Wal-Mart, you're going to have a low standard of living.

The big problem is the have-not's are going to demand that they have cell phones, cable tv's, cars with a gps system, laptops, Playstations... and vote politicians in who are going to give those things to them. We are going to become a true socialist society.

[hkHog]

I was watching Ted Koppel on the daily show today and he said that this is one of the first times America has went to war and has not raised taxes. Thus we have borrowed the money to pay for it. Japan has 28 percent and China has something like 24 percent. He said that is one of the reasons our dollar is falling. He also stated that they are not in collection mode because we are currently their biggest market. He also said that China has nearly 300 million in middle class citizens and is growing.

We are all aware that China is slowly but surely becoming a capitalistic society. As seen by the growth of a middle class. They've got a billion people folks. If they fix their food problem with the technology that is now growing exponentially, we suddenly will not be their biggest market. Really folks, we're in a bunch of debt, we're at war, we didn't raise taxes to pay for it, other countries took up our debt. What are America's prospects if it continues this course and how will it remain the best country in the world? Will it be? I'd like to hear some of your guys opinions. Maybe some things you think we'll be doing differently in the future, maybe some things that are simply going to change on their own due to the cyclical nature of recessions.. does currency fall during a recession? Anyway the general topic is America's future.

China is so far from the USA it is rediculous. In the last six years the United States GDP has GROWN by more than the TOTAL GDP OF CHINA!!! In China they still crap in holes in the ground. In the last 200 years what has China invented? Nothing! All China can do is take other peoples (American) ideas and make them cheaper. And what happens to China when the keep growing and wages increase? They stop having a competitive advantage and they are screwed. As long as Americans continue to look to the future, adapt, and innovate, the USA will be far and away the greatest country on earth. I am more worried that the USA has lost its entreprenurial spirit than I am of China.

This country is finished if we just keep whining and asking for our politicians to fix everything for us (as is the case right now). We are becoming a country of spoiled, weakminded people. We have so much that all that most of us can do is complain. People who have nothing have no time to worry about all the things we work ourselves up into a tizzy over, their lives are complicated enough just trying to survive day to day. As a country we have to grow some balls and learn how to take care of ourselves once again. We have to adapt to the new world reality so we can thrive. That is what made this country great.

[bschurm]

The United States of America will continue to be the greatest nation on Earth for our lifetime, the lifetime of our children and grand-children. We will have our ups and downs, it is expected. We will endure those difficult times and we will enjoy the good-times.

Yes we have been spoiled. Yes there will always be issues that don't please everyone. But the world will continue to look at us as a model for years to come. People continue to pour into this country in search of a better life. And it will be here.

With all the good, with all the bad, The United States of America have a great outlook for the future because of what we offer, the opportunity to live and be governed by our Constitution.

[hkHog]

The United States of America will continue to be the greatest nation on Earth for our lifetime, the lifetime of our children and grand-children. We will have our ups and downs, it is expected. We will endure those difficult times and we will enjoy the good-times.

Yes we have been spoiled. Yes there will always be issues that don't please everyone. But the world will continue to look at us as a model for years to come. People continue to pour into this country in search of a better life. And it will be here.

With all the good, with all the bad, The United States of America have a great outlook for the future because of what we offer, the opportunity to live and be governed by our Constitution.

I'm sorry I used to agree with you but with the recent changes in the US political landscape, mainly the insatiable thirst that I see around me for socialist policies and increased government control I see this country turning into Europe, a has-been filled with egotistical, lazy people who want to sit at home and have the government provide them with all of their wants and needs. I don't see that American entreprenurial spirit any more. People don't want to go out and make it on their own, they want the government to make their lives easy. This needs to change quickly.

[dwbiggs]

So no worry that we are producing less in this country each year and becoming a service industry and that our kids would rather be Lawyers than Scientist and Engineers? I heard the other day that we have 50% of the worlds lawyers.

[bschurm]

This needs to change quickly.

It will be. I have heard it said before that every generation needs to live through a depression. Maybe what this country needs is a wake up call. But I believe in the American spirit and I believe it doesn't need to come to that. But if it does, then we will learn from it and grow like we always have.

[MDRedskinsFan]

I don't see that American entreprenurial spirit any more. People don't want to go out and make it on their own, they want the government to make their lives easy. This needs to change quickly. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement here. As a young, ambitious and intelligent person, I can see it all around me. Granted, I know and observe many young people like myself, who want nothing other than to work hard and earn their living.

However, there are so many young people I know who are spoiled, and want to stay home all day and play video games. I don't understand why so many people don't take pride in themselves. I don't know if the previous generation had such a number of people like that, but it's sort of disappointing that these people will be in control of the country in 30 years. Scary, to say the least. In the end, it does benefit people like myself because I'll end up with a higher salary, just for doing my job. I'll go above and beyond to satisfy my desire to succeed, and go home knowing I earned my income, and didn't receive it.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Our future?

Public schooling is getting worse every year whether its the drop out rate or lowering the test scores so kids can pass.

Power is doing whatever it wants to the people. Look at oil. Power uses things like reality TV and advertising to keep the masses eye away from what is going on in the world. Many Americans can't locate **** on a map nor do they care about world affairs. However, many Americans care greatly and are very informed, but not enough.

We are so desensitized that news stories that I couldn't even imagine, like that rape and torture victim of the Columbia Unviersity student, are nearly a daily occurrence.

We have been trying to Police the world for a while now and its obvious we really can't do it or we do a bad job at it.

The dollar is extremely weak and will only get worse.

China's economy is growing by about 10% a year while ours generally grows at 2-3% (I believe). This year it all looks different.

Enormous National debt, social security crisis, housing crisis, stuck in foreign countries always fighting never ending wars.....This has the makings for the collapse of an empire.


"I am glad that I am closer to death that birth because this country has fallen off the cliff and I don't think I will be around to feel the pain of hitting the bottom."

-George Carlin.



Who knows what our future holds? The immediate future is dark and scary. Something big needs to happen.

I don't think the answer is in Obama or McCain.

[Baculus]

I think many of today's issues are being overlooked. We have health care issues; our education is lagging behind many other first world nations, and many young people are not well educated and have little connection to community, country, or history, with a poor foundation in fundamental education; pollution and drinking water availability is a still growing concern (and partially due to an eroding water infrastructure that was built, in some areas, during the 19th century); some regions are experiencing issues with their local power grid, not to mention the obvious issues with oil as a resource; and there are more and more of us being born, competing for resources as the population grows and putting more stress on all of the above problems.

And this isn't even to include all of the issues that have already been addressed in the thread.

We have some serious issues, of which many of us appear to be sleepwalking through, oblivious to what's happening around them.

Seriously, what are we going to do when there are twelve billion of us, and many of the major issues facing us haven't been resolved? Can you imagine this planet if it had twice as many of us? Can you imagine the scrambling for resources? What do you think will happen?

More war and conflict.

That is our future if something isn't done, and quick.

[Burgold]

Our future?

We are so desensitized that news stories that I couldn't even imagine, like that rape and torture victim of the Columbia Unviersity student, are nearly a daily occurrence.



I agree with this. There are things that have been happening that in a previous generation would have resulted in an incredible scandal and outrage and protest and we would have demanded so much more... and would have gotten so much more.

I'll take a trivial example. Betting on Basketball. Look at the reaction to betting on basketball in the 2000's versus what happened in the Black Sox scandel.

No even really bats an eye. It's nuts. Same thing happens with corporate or government attrocities. In fact, people go to superhuman lengths to minimize and rationalize them.

The fact that we do not stir is disturbing.

[Baculus]

Our future?

Public schooling is getting worse every year whether its the drop out rate or lowering the test scores so kids can pass.

Power is doing whatever it wants to the people. Look at oil. Power uses things like reality TV and advertising to keep the masses eye away from what is going on in the world. Many Americans can't locate **** on a map nor do they care about world affairs. However, many Americans care greatly and are very informed, but not enough.

We are so desensitized that news stories that I couldn't even imagine, like that rape and torture victim of the Columbia Unviersity student, are nearly a daily occurrence.

We have been trying to Police the world for a while now and its obvious we really can't do it or we do a bad job at it.

The dollar is extremely weak and will only get worse.

China's economy is growing by about 10% a year while ours generally grows at 2-3% (I believe). This year it all looks different.

Enormous National debt, social security crisis, housing crisis, stuck in foreign countries always fighting never ending wars.....This has the makings for the collapse of an empire.


"I am glad that I am closer to death that birth because this country has fallen off the cliff and I don't think I will be around to feel the pain of hitting the bottom."

-George Carlin.



Who knows what our future holds? The immediate future is dark and scary. Something big needs to happen.

I don't think the answer is in Obama or McCain.

Huh. I should have read your post before I posted mine - you stated a lot of what I was thinking.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I agree with this. There are things that have been happening that in a previous generation would have resulted in an incredible scandal and outrage and protest and we would have demanded so much more... and would have gotten so much more.

I'll take a trivial example. Betting on Basketball. Look at the reaction to betting on basketball in the 2000's versus what happened in the Black Sox scandel.

No even really bats an eye. It's nuts. Same thing happens with corporate or government attrocities. In fact, people go to superhuman lengths to minimize and rationalize them.

The fact that we do not stir is disturbing.


Not even generations. Im young and I can remember times when the horrible stuff thats going on now wasn't or at least they were so rare that you barely heard about them.

[Burgold]

Not even generations. Im young and I can remember times when the horrible stuff thats going on now wasn't or at least they were so rare that you barely heard about them.

It's not that horrible stuff wasn't going on. It's that people wouldn't stand for it and took action about it. Now, people can't be bothered. I mean look at the way Nixon was torn down. Or look at the witchtrials of McCarthy. Hell, look at the way people took down Clinton. Maybe we're just fatigued or worn down because the attrocities keep getting worse.

We have entered an age of powerless apathy. We have entered the age where we ***** endlessly, but do nothing, and accept intolerable things as tolerable.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

We have entered the age where we ***** endlessly, but do nothing

Aren't forums great :silly:

[SpringfieldSkins]

Sounds like we need to start a revolution.