Marriage -vs- Living Together

[Blondie]

I have some real questions about the necessity of marriage.

As a Christian, I do realize that living with someone, and having sex with someone, that I am not married to, is a sin. I understand that point. That is between me and God.

This is not a Biblical question.

If there are not going to be children born to this relationship, wouldn't living together for the duration be ok?

I would like to hear any reason FOR getting married. I can think of lots not to make that step. Marriage just doesn't seem to be necessary.

Maybe I am looking at it incorrectly.

Why do people get married?

[SkinsOrlando]

I personally see no reason to get married(not saying I won't again but find it highly unlikely), a marriage license just says the state has sanctioned it, only you and God know whats in your heart. If you feel safe and secure with God about it, do it.

Edit: You were looking for reasons for it, I don't have any. Better insurance rates??

[SkinnedAussie]

Blondie, this is not an answer to your question, but it may give you something to think about.

A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband;
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend;
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.

Married men live longer than single men - but married men are a lot more willing to die.

Any married man should forget his mistakes - there’s no use in two people remembering the same thing.

A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn’t;
A man marries a woman expecting that she won’t change and she does.

A woman has the last word in any argument;
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

There are 2 times when a man doesn’t understand a woman - before the wedding and after the wedding.

To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little;
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and try not to understand her at all.

[ldysknzfn1]

I can't really see any particular reason for anyone to get married. Like SO said, a marriage certicate just makes it legal. I lived w/the man I'm currently married to for 17 years before we got married. We got married b/c we promised his mother we would get married at some point in our relationship. We had 2 kids and she believed that parents should be married, yet I found out later she never married her kids' dads. She passed away in Mar 2002. So we fulfilled the promise made to her a year or so before she died, and married in Nov 2002. In January 2003, my husband had a stroke and was diagnosed w/end stage renal disease. MY health insurance paid his medical bills. Had we not been married, we would have had one heckuva hospital bill hanging over our heads. He was semi-retired at the time so he wasn't on Medicare, he had no health insurance thru his job(he thought it cost too much:rolleyes: ). He had to spend about 10 months in a nursing home afterwards rehabbing and we would have lost our home had we not been married and had kids, b/c we applied for Medicaid and they didn't take the home into consideration as an asset b/c the kids and I were living in the home.


So the only thing I can say to you, if you see this relationship lasting for a long time(more than 5 years let's say) and you buy things together and build some wealth or something and something happens to either one of you(God forbid), you wouldn't have legal rights to it unless of course you did that legally before something happening...I hope that made sense..lol.

Just make sure things are good legally is what I'm trying to say I guess. Other than that, the religious thing is the only thing I can think of to get married.

[Prosperity]

aren't there tax breaks or something like that?

[ldysknzfn1]

Blondie, this is not an answer to your question, but it may give you something to think about.

A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband;
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend;
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.

Married men live longer than single men - but married men are a lot more willing to die.

Any married man should forget his mistakes - there’s no use in two people remembering the same thing.

A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn’t;
A man marries a woman expecting that she won’t change and she does.

A woman has the last word in any argument;
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

There are 2 times when a man doesn’t understand a woman - before the wedding and after the wedding.

To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little;
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and try not to understand her at all.

Nicely said...and true btw especially the highlited part above...:laugh:

[skinfan2k]

Marriage is the ultimate committment between two people. Living together, you can say that you like each other but you still live seperate lives

[Dallsux]

I think marriage has a sense of security to it that just living together does not offer. I also think that living together can be just as rewarding, just on different levels. All in all, I think it depends on you, your relationship, your relationship with God (most of all), & your partner. If you feel that your relationship can be enhanced by getting married or if you are more comfortable that way, I say do it. On the other hand, getting married can be put a sudden strain on a relationship. To me, it's all about you & that relationship. :2cents:

[Dallsux]

Blondie, this is not an answer to your question, but it may give you something to think about.

A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband;
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend;
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.

Married men live longer than single men - but married men are a lot more willing to die.

Any married man should forget his mistakes - there’s no use in two people remembering the same thing.

A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn’t;
A man marries a woman expecting that she won’t change and she does.

A woman has the last word in any argument;
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

There are 2 times when a man doesn’t understand a woman - before the wedding and after the wedding.

To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little;
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and try not to understand her at all.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: As funny as this is, it is oh so true.

[Teller]

A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn’t;
A man marries a woman expecting that she won’t change and she does.

If there are truer words, I've never read them.

[Blondie]

I think marriage has a sense of security to it that just living together does not offer. I also think that living together can be just as rewarding, just on different levels. All in all, I think it depends on you, your relationship, your relationship with God (most of all), & your partner. If you feel that your relationship can be enhanced by getting married or if you are more comfortable that way, I say do it. On the other hand, getting married can be put a sudden strain on a relationship. To me, it's all about you & that relationship. :2cents:

See, that is what I don't understand.

In this day and age of drive-thru divorce, the paper doesn't seem to make it any more secure, at least in my mind.

I do recognize the importance of insurance, and home ownership etc. Those are reasons to consider and make sense. Thanks lady!

I am wondering if a very long term "engagement" complete with ring would give the security?

I know this is a personal demon. Just trying to get some opinions that provide new insight.

[Little_Cooley]

Stay single Blondie, stay single

[Teller]

Stay single Blondie, stay single

"Age: 11"


Wise beyond your years, young man. :laugh:

:cheers: <----grape juice. :)

[mardi gras skin]

I wanted to be completely intertwined in the life of my wife. One unit. If my identity was going to be intertwined with hers, it was going to take a life long commitment. Emotionally, economically, physically, legally. I didn't want to hold anything back. I didn't want an escape route.

This is quaint, I know, but I think that marriage speaks to my integrity. If I had treated her like my wife without committing to her like my wife, I would have felt like a hypocrite.

[PeterMP]

I'm pretty sure this is still true: if you are living together and then decide to get married, the marriage is more likely to end in divorce than if you don't live together.

In general, I think that stat says something about the different levels of commitment of people.

[Dallsux]

See, that is what I don't understand.

In this day and age of drive-thru divorce, the paper doesn't seem to make it any more secure, at least in my mind.

I do recognize the importance of insurance, and home ownership etc. Those are reasons to consider and make sense. Thanks lady!

I am wondering if a very long term "engagement" complete with ring would give the security?

I know this is a personal demon. Just trying to get some opinions that provide new insight.


I agree that we are in a time when divorce is as ready-made as french fries from McDonald's & cheaper in the long run then marriage. I think the security is an intangible that is just there when you get married. I'm not talking about the paper. Screw the paper. I don't need the paper to tell me that I am legally married. However, to me, it has more to do with the ring & the heart. The ring always reminded me (& others around me) that I belonged to someone. That someone belonged to me. The security, albeit false, was in my heart. Not on paper.

As I said, marriage can put a strain on a relationship that wasn't there before. Why? You tell me. Again, I think it depends on the person & that relationship they are in.

I know some people who have lived together for over 15 years, never got married, happy as can be. I have known people who were married for many more years then that & were just as happy...well, seemingly, anyway. it HAS to be a personal thing.

Now, I've been married once, for 6 years, now divorced. The relationship was extremely one-sided & strenuous. Trust was ALWAYS an issue. As I said, the security I felt was false. Would I get married again? Absolutely. It's gonna be a while before I decide that would be the right way for me to go again (of course, a woman to date, muchless, marry would be a good start), but I am not opposed to the idea.

Like I said, I think it depends on your heart & where you feel your relationship can be at it's best. :2cents:

[IHOPSkins]

......I would like to hear any reason FOR getting married.....It increasses the level of the commitment..."for better or for worse-till death us do part"

[Teller]

I wanted to be completely intertwined in the life of my wife. One unit. If my identity was going to be intertwined with hers, it was going to take a life long commitment. Emotionally, economically, physically, legally. I didn't want to hold anything back. I didn't want an escape route.

I didn't either. :(

[Fergasun]

Well, if you are a Christian, you have to believe that your sin will have some effect on your relationship with God and others. Otherwise salvation is just a "safe ticket" and gives you "freedom to sin", which I think is one of the central points in the book of Romans. I believe God honors and blesses people who follow Him. I'm not sure if this is all physical or spiritual blessing or manifested now or in heaven... but this is at least backed up by Psalm 1 (that just popped into my head, I'm sure its other places).

I think its rare finding two people who are committed to Christianity/Jesus, and even if they are genuine going into the marriage it really is testing as you walk out the marriage, from year 1 to year 100. Now, I'm not sure what religions practice marriage, but marriage is not a man-made instrument, rather a God-made instrument. I know Christians and Jews have this in their religion, and suspect Muslim's due to based on their roots.

Now, to me that's a good reason to get married, as long as I'm committed to that person and she is to me. In your case: are you going to be committed with that person "till death do us part"? Do you really want to have a holy union in the eyes of God? It seems like the way you ask about it... and the way marriage has become over the past 30 years is "personal choice" primarily because not enough people have really been serious about marriage, and there aren't penalties for divorces (rather than social stigma, which I think has eroded down to 0).

Sorry, I don't think I did a good job answering what you were wanting... but this is my view. I really don't believe that the government should be in the business of marriage... because like I said above, it's a God-made and not man-made instrument (I use that word but not sure if its the right one... looking for something other than "sacrament").

[Ax]

Love, respect, and commitment is neither the result of a piece of paper, nor due to the lack of it. I know you already know that.

My wife and I lived together for 7 years before we got married. We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary.

A relationship only works when the people involved remain committed to the same goal, and continue to share the work it takes to reach for those goals.

Nothing. Not kids, not money, and not a piece of paper can make a bad/weak relationship work. And nothing. Not kids, not money, and not whether or not you have a piece of paper can destroy a good/strong relationship.

So it comes down to financial matters, which is where the paper becomes more important. It's clearly more beneficial to be married for that reason.

Just be honest with yourself, and each other, about what it is you want and expect from each other, in the relationship. Before you take the plunge.

Best wishes!

[HogNose]

Blondie-

The legal benefits of marriage out weigh the disadvantages for couples that intend to stay in a relationship long term. This is exactly why gay couples are scrambling to get to get married. It's all about the legal ramifications.

[TK]

As a divorced guy, let me ask you this B.

Why do you need a piece of paper from the state telling you how you feel about someone else?

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Marriage is a social contract between a man and a woman. It's a way of publicly proclaiming the committment between a man and a woman to live as one entity for the rest of their lives. It's also a way of reminding themselves that no matter how bad things may get at times, they have someone there who loves them and who they have vowed to support, love, and be there for; and that other person has vowed to do the same for them.

Now it's not up to me to tell anyone how they should or should not live their own lives. Individuals have to make those decisions for themselves. However I really, truly believe that the institution of marriage (whether it be secular or religious) is a better idea than simply living together for an extended period of time.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

[DCSaints_fan]

Well as I guy I know a wedding or engagement ring definitely tells me "hands off" and it subconsciously makes the woman less attractive to me (Whereas for women, I suppose its the exact opposite!) I suppose you can have rings without a formal ceremony, though. A private exchange of vows could probably be just as meaningful, although you don't have the legal rights in most states without a (some do have "common law" marriages - anybody here a lawyer? ).

A marriage will subject one party to to the future possibility of alimony if they get divorced later - all cohabition subjects you to is child support if children are involved. Divorce is not easy in all states. I know in Virginia you need six months separation to force a property settlement which can turn into a real mess if you own a home jointly and the one who remains behind when one leaves simply decides they aren't going to pay their mortgage and go to foreclosure to spite the other party.

I would turn this question around though, if plan on spending the rest of your life with someone, why *not* get married? A refusal of one party to marriage indicates to me that they aren't 100% about the other persona and don't want to easily bail out should the relationship sour.

I definitely agree that weddings and the reception are more for the family and friends than the couple, though. Especially the dang reception.

[HogNose]

I'm pretty sure this is still true: if you are living together and then decide to get married, the marriage is more likely to end in divorce than if you don't live together.



My wife and I lived together for 3 years before getting married. For us it was the best thing that happened...you get to see all of their habits and quirks, etc. I think it depends on the people and how strong the relationship is too.

[Zguy28]

I wanted to be completely intertwined in the life of my wife. One unit. If my identity was going to be intertwined with hers, it was going to take a life long commitment. Emotionally, economically, physically, legally. I didn't want to hold anything back. I didn't want an escape route.

This is quaint, I know, but I think that marriage to the person I've committed to spend the rest of my life speaks to my integrity. If I had treated her like my wife without committing to her like my wife, I would have felt like a hypocrite.You pretty much said what I think on the subject.

Commitment. One unit instead of two.

Of course the no-fault divorce seriously put a hurt on this way of thinking. :(


I think co-habitation speaks to selfishness. :2cents:

[Zguy28]

I didn't either. :(Yes, but you didn't have much of a choice in the matter as I recall.

[Blondie]

There are many thought provoking issues here.

Intertwined. That is a good word.

I am enjoying reading these posts.

Thanks guys.

Keep them going.

[Yusuf06]

This is a tough one. I honestly believe the marriage between two people is about the actual relationship and level of commitment between them rather than a piece of paper. Marriage can be one of the indicators that the aforementioned commitment and deep relationship are present. However the problem arises when people think that marriage somehow results in, or is a shortcut to the important stuff rather than the other way around. In short, it's all about the relationship and who the individuals are as people. Marriages that aren't built on this principle and/or that don't take them into account are destined for failure anyway. In other words, if he's a great guy, you guys are really good together, and he's really into you, don't sweat the paper part of the relationship.

Now to be honest, I am the marrying type and I love being married to Mrs. '06. However, if I had the same committed relationship with her without being married, I'd be just as happy.

As for the prior mention that living together increases the chances of a subsequent marriage ending in divorce, that's not entirely accurate. The study that showed this was based on Swedish women and may be subject to other biases as well...


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2DF1331F934A35751C1A9619482 60
Another researcher, however, questioned the use of the Swedish data to assess the situation in the United States. The researcher, Pepper Schwartz, said her work had found no such difference in divorce rates in the United States.

Ms. Schwartz, a sociologist who is co-author of the 1983 book ''American Couples,'' which examined the relationships of 1,200 people, said that although she questioned the interpretation of the Swedish statistics, she respected the authors. ''Neil Bennett's a pretty spiffy researcher,'' she said.

According to her research, the divorce rate among Americans who live together before marriage is no greater than among those who do not, she said. Ms. Schwartz, a professor at the University of Washington in Seattle, said that because such a high percentage of Swedes lived together before marriage those who did not were more likely to be conservative and therefore less likely to divorce.

[Teller]

Yes, but you didn't have much of a choice in the matter as I recall.

Nah. I just wish she would've looked at it more like mardi gras. That was a simple, but eloquent post on how marriage SHOULD be.

[mardi gras skin]

Several people have mentioned a piece of paper. I didn't get married for a piece of paper. When I stood in front of every person that knew me and made a commitment, swore an oath, I wasn't thinking about paper.

I don't even know where that piece of paper is.

[praise_gibbs]

Seems like the right place to share some Zig Ziglar. Of course, there is ALWAYS a right time and place for some Zig Ziglar. Isn't that right, TK?



“Many marriages would be better if the husband and the wife clearly understood that they are on the same side.”


“It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages.”


“Remember that a successful marriage depends on two things: (1) finding the right person and (2) being the right person”


"Many people spend more time in planning the wedding than they do in planning the marriage"

[Corcaigh]

It's a commitment. It's that simple.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Several people have mentioned a piece of paper. I didn't get married for a piece of paper. When I stood in front of every person that knew me and made a commitment, swore an oath, I wasn't thinking about paper.

I don't even know where that piece of paper is.

That's what its really about.

Making that commitment publicly to be together and care for each other through thick and thin. My girlfriend actually suggested last night we should get married, but I told her to give it another 3 years :silly:

[Blondie]

It's a commitment. It's that simple.

So, people who live together for dozens of years withOUT marriage are NOT committed?

[SUSkinsFan]

To me, aside from the legal benefits, marriage is more mental than anything. I know people who have lived together for 20 years, are not "married" but the only difference is that they don't have a marriage certificate. Like someone said earlier there is a feeling of security when someone gets married. I personally want to get married because of what it symbolizes in my mind. But if two people want to just live together and not get married, more power to them.

As to the sex part, I'm not an overly religious person so I fail to see what boundary is crossed when you say "I do" that allows for sex not to be sinful. If two people truly love each other that is all that matters.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Marriage means saving $ on birth control/bedroom accessories.

Also, increases time available for posting on ES and playing imaginary football.

Marriage=great! :thumbsup:

[Yusuf06]

Marriage means saving $ on birth control/bedroom accessories.

Also, increases time available for posting on ES and playing imaginary football.

Marriage=great! :thumbsup:
Excellent points. ;)

Oh, and FWIW tell Bschurm to :stfu: I want J. Alba's fanny in my face right now! :mad:

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Excellent points. ;)

Oh, and FWIW tell Bschurm to :stfu: I want J. Alba's fanny in my face right now! :mad:

He'd love to receive PM's on that :laugh:

[bschurm]

He'd love to receive PM's on that :laugh:



:doh:

[stevenaa]

Why not get married? If you are so committed you want to spend your life together, why not make it legally binding? Taking marriage off the table seems like a symptom of something else.

[Blondie]

Why not get married? If you are so committed you want to spend your life together, why not make it legally binding? Taking marriage off the table seems like a symptom of something else.

What?

Please tell me since you threw it out there........maybe it is something that will help me.

I have a Master's Degree in Psychology.

I should be able to get over this panic that comes over me if I think seriously about it.

I can joke.....Huly jokes about me as a wife...and that doesn't cause me distress.

But the reality of it makes me stress.

This issue is not yet on the table......but I can see it headed in that direction.

So, please tell me what the "something else" is.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

So, people who live together for dozens of years withOUT marriage are NOT committed?

Blondie, I wouldn't say they're NOT committed as much as I'd suggest that maybe they're less willing to lock themselves in to a long term committment. Many times they're trying to keep their options open because they've been hurt in the past by making a commitment or because they're not so sure that this is the right situation for them. In short, they're often trying to protect themselves from the potential of getting hurt, emotionally or financially.

The point of marriage (whether secular or religious) is to affirm that committment publicly, and in the religious venue before God. It is an opportunity to celebrate that committment with friends and family and to openly promise each other the love and support that two people feel for each other.

Additionally, secular marriage has certain societal advantages that simply living together does not offer; at least not easily. Tax advantages, spousal benefits from employers, the state, and other institutions, and social advantages/protections.

You know me. I'm not the greatest proponent of marriage here at ES for my own reasons. However, I really think that each couple that wishes to be show the world they are in a long-term committed relationship should seriously consider marriage. Yes, it does mean that you have to open yourself up even further and risk being hurt even deeper by your significant other, but I've been in a hospital waiting room with a hysterical woman who couldn't go back and see her unconscious and seriously injured SO because they'd never gotten married or filled out the proper paperwork to allow her to do so.

Just my :2cents: for what they're worth.

[Hubbs]

I think co-habitation speaks to selfishness. :2cents:

Do explain.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

To me it is psychological. Marriage is the ultimate step in a relationship. The final commitment to the person you want to spend the rest of your life with.

Even though nothing might change, someone asks "Are you married?" and you say "no." There is always that one final step you can take to make it official. Its a mental thing. Even if it means no change in the way the relationship is at all.

And if there are going to be kids, I firmly believe the parents should be married.

[Yusuf06]

What?

Please tell me since you threw it out there........maybe it is something that will help me.

I have a Master's Degree in Psychology.

I should be able to get over this panic that comes over me if I think seriously about it.

I can joke.....Huly jokes about me as a wife...and that doesn't cause me distress.

But the reality of it makes me stress.

This issue is not yet on the table......but I can see it headed in that direction.

So, please tell me what the "something else" is.
Quite simply it sounds like you have commitment issues. Either accept that under your Christian value system you're going to be living a "sinful" lifestyle and move on or delve into the underlying cause and deal with it/them.

Either way, you shouldn't be as stressed out about it as you seem to be. Either the guy is worth marrying and willing to do so-or he's not. Ditto that for you. If those first two conditions are met and you all are happy with each other, what else is there? Now if everything else is OK, but one or both of you just doesn't want to be married, then that decision is made already-at least for now-->proceed to shacking up.

[Fergasun]

After seeing the divorce rate and some marriages fall apart in other people's lives for one reason or another, I'm not convinced that anyone can count on marriage as being "secure". Even if you are committed going in, there's no guarantee until death... vows just don't mean as much as they used to.

So while my views on marriage are that it is a God-made ceremony, I kind've do understand where Blondie is coming from. If your not serious about religion and relationship with God, than why get married?

[joeknows]

I have some real questions about the necessity of marriage.

As a Christian, I do realize that living with someone, and having sex with someone, that I am not married to, is a sin. I understand that point. That is between me and God.

This is not a Biblical question.

If there are not going to be children born to this relationship, wouldn't living together for the duration be ok?

I would like to hear any reason FOR getting married. I can think of lots not to make that step. Marriage just doesn't seem to be necessary.

Maybe I am looking at it incorrectly.

Why do people get married?

THERE ARE THE OBVIOUS TAX AND INSURANCE REASONS...also.... remember terry schiavo..... unmarried you have no say in the most important LEGAL decisions..

[HogNose]

.also.... remember terry schiavo..... unmarried you have no say in the most important LEGAL decisions..


Ding..ding ..ding, We have a thread response winner. :1stplace: I had forgotten to add that..and yes, the name "TERRY SCHIAVO" should be reason enough to make it legal.

You don't want to be standing their watching a loved one suffer as a vegetable with your hands tied behind your back.

[stevenaa]

What?

Please tell me since you threw it out there........maybe it is something that will help me.

I have a Master's Degree in Psychology.

I should be able to get over this panic that comes over me if I think seriously about it.

I can joke.....Huly jokes about me as a wife...and that doesn't cause me distress.

But the reality of it makes me stress.

This issue is not yet on the table......but I can see it headed in that direction.

So, please tell me what the "something else" is.


It seems an easy thing to say you are committed and move in together. But getting married is a specific action that demonstrates your commitment. You have to reconcile all your doubts and fears in a way you don't have to if you are just moving in. To me, there is more permanence in marriage, and it requires you to confront and deal with your insecurities in a way living together just can't do. Since this stresses you out, I guess you already know this.

I can make a long list of possibilities (all my opinions, of course) if you like, but wouldn't have a clue if I'm hitting on anything that applies to you. What is it about marriage that stresses you out? Are you rethinking this as you are considering moving in with someone, or are you just re-evaluating your thoughts on marriage because it stresses you out? Without being more personal than you would like, can you provide some more specifics?

[Zguy28]

Do explain.Just like Corcaigh said, its about commitment. Not for the moment, or for the year, or decade. Its for life.

Co-habitation is the non-committal way. It says "I can leave anytime I chose with no real consequences." Its selfish because you're not willing to lay it all on the line. You're holding something back for yourself.

Real love isn't infatuation. It may seem that way since you feel that you would do anything for that person, but in reality, you're just doing it for yourself.

Real love is commitment and selfless. Its doing those things for you love because you want to even when you don't feel good or when you don't feel like it. Sick or healthy, rich or poor etc. That's not intended to be just fluff. Marriage is the natural extension of that mindset.

[Zguy28]

vows just don't mean as much as they used to. By nature they are supposed to be binding, no?

[Hubbs]

Just like Corcaigh said, its about commitment. Not for the moment, or for the year, or decade. Its for life.

Co-habitation is the non-committal way. It says "I can leave anytime I chose with no real consequences." Its selfish because you're not willing to lay it all on the line. You're holding something back for yourself.

Real love isn't infatuation. It may seem that way since you feel that you would do anything for that person, but in reality, you're just doing it for yourself.

Real love is commitment and selfless. Its doing those things for you love because you want to even when you don't feel good or when you don't feel like it. Sick or healthy, rich or poor etc. That's not intended to be just fluff. Marriage is the natural extension of that mindset.

So, just to be clear...

When making what is in many ways the most important decision of your life, the results of which will hinge largely on how well you live with the person you're supposed to be with until one of you passes away, you would consider it selfish to live together for, say, a year, to find out what the dynamic is like there? You would consider it morally wrong to figure this out before making a lifelong decision?

[Blondie]

Just like Corcaigh said, its about commitment. Not for the moment, or for the year, or decade. Its for life.

Co-habitation is the non-committal way. It says "I can leave anytime I chose with no real consequences." Its selfish because you're not willing to lay it all on the line. You're holding something back for yourself.

Real love isn't infatuation. It may seem that way since you feel that you would do anything for that person, but in reality, you're just doing it for yourself.

Real love is commitment and selfless. Its doing those things for you love because you want to even when you don't feel good or when you don't feel like it. Sick or healthy, rich or poor etc. That's not intended to be just fluff. Marriage is the natural extension of that mindset.

So, you are telling me that if married, a person can NOT leave anytime they want? Real consequences? Like what? Anyone can get an online divorce.....and take it to a judge. So what else?

And people who choose to live together cant have real love? The doing things even if you dont want to? Only marriage does that?

[Zguy28]

So, just to be clear...

When making what is in many ways the most important decision of your life, the results of which will hinge largely on how well you live with the person you're supposed to be with until one of you passes away, you would consider it selfish to live together for, say, a year, to find out what the dynamic is like there? You would consider it morally wrong to figure this out before making a lifelong decision?

:bsflag:

Its an excuse people (especially men) make to get sex before they have to commit.

Pretty superficial and self-serving line of thought if you ask me.:2cents:

[Zguy28]

So, you are telling me that if married, a person can NOT leave anytime they want? In today's culture they can thanks to the no-fault divorce (thanks Ronald Reagan :rolleyes: )


Real consequences? Like what? Anyone can get an online divorce.....and take it to a judge. So what else?Financial consequences come to mind. Not to mention, you most likely don't have to deal with lawyers.


And people who choose to live together cant have real love? The doing things even if you dont want to? Only marriage does that?What I said is that marriage (a life commitment) flows out of true love.

Ask yourself, do you consider your relationship with this guy "permanent"?

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Why wouldn't a couple that love each other get married?

[techboy]

You would consider it morally wrong to figure this out before making a lifelong decision?

He can't really answer that because Blondie has requested that morality be taken off the table.

[Blondie]

:bsflag:

Its an excuse people (especially men) make to get sex before they have to commit.

Pretty superficial and self-serving line of thought if you ask me.:2cents:


So, you have ONLY had sex with the person you chose to commit to?

[Blondie]

In today's culture they can thanks to the no-fault divorce (thanks Ronald Reagan :rolleyes: )

Financial consequences come to mind. Not to mention, you most likely don't have to deal with lawyers.

What I said is that marriage (a life commitment) flows out of true love.

Ask yourself, do you consider your relationship with this guy "permanent"?

For the first time in a very long time, I can see this one as permanent. I have had many boyfriends....but since the long term guy and I broke up in 2003, this is the only one I have let this close to me.......emtionally. He is NOTHING like the other relationships I have had in my life. He is exact opposite of the kind of guy I usually look to find. This one is really a keeper.


Why wouldn't a couple that love each other get married?

That is why I have asked this question. :doh: :laugh: Except I am asking why would they.


He can't really answer that because Blondie has requested that morality be taken off the table.

It cant really be called pre-marital sex.........if the marital is not in the picture, right? :laugh: :laugh:

Seriously, I know God does not condone the live together thing. My religious beliefs are deep and my "worldly" beliefs are confusing me.

[Kosher Ham]

I don't see how in this day and age, you/anyone would not want to live together first.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

So, you have ONLY had sex with the person you chose to commit to?

Is there anything wrong with that? :silly:




That is why I have asked this question. :doh: :laugh: Except I am asking why would they.


I'm just curious as to the reasons against it and I really didn't see anything.

[Kosher Ham]

I'm just curious as to the reasons against it and I really didn't see anything.

Yet no reason to marry either. Have you been in love before ?

[mardi gras skin]

I don't see how in this day and age, you/anyone would want to live together first.

[Kosher Ham]

I don't see how in this day and age, you/anyone would want to live together first.

Why ?

[mardi gras skin]

Why ?

Too complicated. You live a pseudo-married life it just increases the odds that someone's emotions are going to get screwed up. If I don't love her enough to marry her, why live an illusion of marriage?

Why do you think people should live together?

[Blondie]

Too complicated. You live a pseudo-married life it just increases the odds that someone's emotions are going to get screwed up. If I don't love her enough to marry her, why live an illusion of marriage?

Why do you think people should live together?

I think people can truly love each other and not have to be married to make it so.

It is like marriage is the only way a person can reach the "ulitmate" love.

If someone does not choose to marry, then they just dont love each other enough. There could not be enough devotion in a relationship without marriage.

I dont understand that.

I can see many of the reasons to marry as people have stated. Insurance, medical decisions, tax etc. I can understand how horrible it would be to not be able to make decisions that are entitled to only a wife.

[Kosher Ham]

Too complicated. You live a pseudo-married life it just increases the odds that someone's emotions are going to get screwed up. If I don't love her enough to marry her, why live an illusion of marriage?

Why do you think people should live together?

It's not that at all.

You can love endlessly without being married. Living together ? Hell, I have had female roommates before, they were like sisters, not lovers, or wives.

The only odd part about this is that a female actually brought up the topic.

From my experience, women are taught to look forward to their big day and as much as it is her day it is more a day for her family.

[DeanCollins]

I'm afraid that I can't give you any help, by way of reasons to get married, but could you pm me about the "having sex with someone part" ;)

[mardi gras skin]

I think people can truly love each other and not have to be married to make it so.

What roll do you think committment plays in love? They go hand in hand for me. I love my kids and I can't imagine "divorcing" myself from them. A parent who only loved them in the moment but couldn't commit to loving them forever...that's a different kind of love. Something less than I would expect from a parent. In the same way, if a woman wasn't prepared to make the lifelong commitment to me, marriage, I would think her love for me was something less than complete.


It is like marriage is the only way a person can reach the "ulitmate" love.

I think its the opposite. When a person has reached the ultimate love, undying commitment, they want to make that true in every aspect of their lives. If I am in love with a woman--the ULTIMATE love--I want to tell her, my family, and my friends that something fundamental to who I am has changed. I am not single. I am married.


If someone does not choose to marry, then they just dont love each other enough. There could not be enough devotion in a relationship without marriage.

I don't know why all people do what they do in relationships. I don't have enough information to know the "could nots" of this kind of conversation. My part of this conversation is limited to my experiences/world view.


I can see many of the reasons to marry as people have stated. Insurance, medical decisions, tax etc. I can understand how horrible it would be to not be able to make decisions that are entitled to only a wife.

That's really practical, but secondary to me. Because I have made a lifelong commitment to my wife, the legal stuff follows. If I can't make that kind of commitment, I shouldn't be the one to make those decisions.

[Blondie]

It's not that at all.

You can love endlessly without being married. Living together ? Hell, I have had female roommates before, they were like sisters, not lovers, or wives.

The only odd part about this is that a female actually brought up the topic.

From my experience, women are taught to look forward to their big day and as much as it is her day it is more a day for her family.

:laugh: :laugh:

I am not your typical female.


I love football.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Kosher Ham]

:laugh: :laugh:

I am not your typical female.


I love football.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Trust me. I know.

:cheers: ;)

[mardi gras skin]

Living together ? Hell, I have had female roommates before, they were like sisters, not lovers, or wives.

Not what we're talking about here, I'm sure. ;)



From my experience, women are taught to look forward to their big day and as much as it is her day it is more a day for her family.

I agree. To much thought on the wedding (party), not enough thought about marriage (life).

[Blondie]

What roll do you think committment plays in love? They go hand in hand for me. I love my kids and I can't imagine "divorcing" myself from them. A parent who only loved them in the moment but couldn't commit to loving them forever...that's a different kind of love. Something less than I would expect from a parent. In the same way, if a woman wasn't prepared to make the lifelong commitment to me, marriage, I would think her love for me was something less than complete.

A lifelong commitment is a life long commitment. The "vow" is only worth what both put into it. I can be totally commited to someone without the words. At least I think I can.




I think its the opposite. When a person has reached the ultimate love, undying commitment, they want to make that true in every aspect of their lives. If I am in love with a woman--the ULTIMATE love--I want to tell her, my family, and my friends that something fundamental to who I am has changed. I am not single. I am married. You say this like the people who live together would do this in secret. Family, friends, coworkers......should all know. Not so much about the "marriage" but the commitment to the person. I think moving in with someone is a heck of a commitment. To me, it is the end of all others and faithfulness to only one.


I don't know why all people do what they do in relationships. I don't have enough information to know the "could nots" of this kind of conversation. My part of this conversation is limited to my experiences/world view.

As is mine.




That's really practical, but secondary to me. Because I have made a lifelong commitment to my wife, the legal stuff follows. If I can't make that kind of commitment, I shouldn't be the one to make those decisions.

Again, you are saying commitment is equal to marriage. Then why is the divorce rate so high?

[mardi gras skin]

A lifelong commitment is a life long commitment. The "vow" is only worth what both put into it. I can be totally commited to someone without the words. At least I think I can.

That's like the guy who never tells his wife he loves her because she should just know. If I'm committed, I want her to know. With words. ;)




You say this like the people who live together would do this in secret. Family, friends, coworkers......should all know. Not so much about the "marriage" but the commitment to the person. I think moving in with someone is a heck of a commitment. To me, it is the end of all others and faithfulness to only one.

Faithfulness forever or for now?


Again, you are saying commitment is equal to marriage. Then why is the divorce rate so high?

Yes, absolutely. Marriage vows are just that...strong statements of commitment. Like oaths of office, military commitments, swearing to tell the truth at a trial, citizenship oaths, doctors, etc. Oaths of commitment are important.

Divorce rates are high because we have made it legally and socially acceptable to cross our fingers. We aren't shocked when a person fails to fulfill their commitments.

And it only takes 1 of 2 to end the commitment. No matter how fully I hold my end of the bargain, my wife can end our marriage if she doesn't have the integrity to stand by her word.

But in a world where love/commitment are rare, the real deal is that much more special.

[Kosher Ham]

But having a commitment...doesn't always need to end in marriage.

Nor does love.

Divorce is based on several components, communications, trust, respect, honor, etc.

[mardi gras skin]

But having a commitment...doesn't always need to end in marriage.

What does it end in? Are you talking about two people who have made a commitment to each other till death, or something less than that?

[Kosher Ham]

For example, I will love my family until the day I die.
There are no boundaries. Even if they screw up, I will still love them.
I will always do anything I can to help them, provide for them, etc.

It is a love that transcends words.

[mardi gras skin]

Blondie, maybe I'm reading what you're asking wrong. What distinguishes this live in relationship from a marriage?

If you're committed to each other like a marriage; if you've shared that commitment with all of your friends and family; if you expect them all to treat you like they would treat their married friends and family members, what makes you not married?

[mardi gras skin]

For example, I will love my family until the day I die.
There are no boundaries. Even if they screw up, I will still love them.
I will always do anything I can to help them, provide for them, etc.

It is a love that transcends words.

But you do tell them that you love them and that you will always love them, right? I mean, if you love them with a lifelong commitment, why would you withhold words that express your love?

[Kosher Ham]

But you do tell them that you love them and that you will always love them, right? I mean, if you love them with a lifelong commitment, why would you withhold words that express your love?

Yes I do tell them (even though, I don't need to). And I don't need a license to do it. Nor a ceremony...nor a witness.

[Blondie]

I'm afraid that I can't give you any help, by way of reasons to get married, but could you pm me about the "having sex with someone part" ;)

I was trying to keep it on the DL and here you are putting our business out in the open. You know you are the only "someone else."

Next thing you know, HH will have this part of his presidential speech.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Blondie]

Blondie, maybe I'm reading what you're asking wrong. What distinguishes this live in relationship from a marriage?

If you're committed to each other like a marriage; if you've shared that commitment with all of your friends and family; if you expect them all to treat you like they would treat their married friends and family members, what makes you not married?

It just scares me.

We are not "there" yet. But I can see it headed in that direction. In reality, I think he is as scared as I am. But it has been brought up.

I do appreciate all of the answers.......I had not thought of the "practical" reasons people gave me. Those are the reasons that might make a difference. The love part is not it. Commitment and faithfulness and loyalty are a given. I dont need a ring or paper to fulfill those.

[DeanCollins]

:drool: .....................

[mardi gras skin]

Yes I do tell them (even though, I don't need to). And I don't need a license to do it. Nor a ceremony...nor a witness.

Ok, but you've made a commitment to them. A lifelong commitment. And you do it with words.

Don't confuse a ceremony with marriage. I am not interested in some big wedding ceremony. I am interested in a society where we have the integrity to call a spade a spade. Commit or don't, but don't play at it. If you've made a real commitment, it should come with real legal ramifications...a license. Take it and live up to the responsibilities that come with your commitment.

That's my take anyway. :)

[mardi gras skin]

It just scares me.

We are not "there" yet. But I can see it headed in that direction. In reality, I think he is as scared as I am. But it has been brought up.


Yeah, no shame in that. But still, I'm interested in how you would see it playing out if you didn't get married. What would be different?

[DCsilentSkins92]

1 Corinthians 7:2 "But sexual sin is a danger. So each man should have his own wife. And each woman should have her husband."

I follow what God wants us to do..

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Yet no reason to marry either. Have you been in love before ?

Yes, right now.

I've been with my girlfriend for over 4 years, why?

[Zguy28]

So, you have ONLY had sex with the person you chose to commit to?Sadly, the answer is no.:(

But I also wasn't always a Christian, and I didn't have any hesitation about sexual immorality. :2cents:


For the first time in a very long time, I can see this one as permanent. I have had many boyfriends....but since the long term guy and I broke up in 2003, this is the only one I have let this close to me.......emtionally. He is NOTHING like the other relationships I have had in my life. He is exact opposite of the kind of guy I usually look to find. This one is really a keeper.Then what is stopping you?

Something is. What is it? Its either permanent or it isn't.

Are you afraid he will then have some sort of "ownership" over you?

Is it pride that's holding you back from being his wife?

(I'm not chastising you btw)

[Xameil]

:bsflag:

Its an excuse people (especially men) make to get sex before they have to commit.

Pretty superficial and self-serving line of thought if you ask me.:2cents:


lol I don't need to live with em to get sex...


The living with them first has its pluses and minuses...ironically they are both the same..

..you get to see their quirks.

[Kosher Ham]

Yes, right now.

I've been with my girlfriend for over 4 years, why?

Why aren't you married yet then ?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm getting married in two months after living with her for two years.

It's already different, and I really think it just has to do with the ritual. Giving her the ring. Standing in front of everyone. Making that pledge.

Yes, divorce is fairly easy, but if you have any kind of honor (which I feel I do), it's tough to do all that and not feel a sense of commitment and obligation beyond what simply living together represents.

And I am saying this as someone who was pretty convinced that living together forever was fine.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Why aren't you married yet then ?

Because we both want to finish our schooling before we completely settle down.

[Kosher Ham]

Because we both want to finish our schooling before we completely settle down.

But it's been 4 years, and you're committed to each other so what's the difference ?

You see where I am going here right ?

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

But it's been 4 years, and you're committed to each other so what's the difference ?

You see where I am going here right ?

I do see where you are going, but your reasoning is pretty weak. Going with your logic, anyone that is dating should just get married.

We are both setting our focus right now for finishing school. We both live at home still. Once we are done with school, we plan on getting married. Right now though, we have our priorities and I know I wouldn't do as well in school living with a hot latina ;)

[Kosher Ham]

But that is the same advice you were giving earlier. That is the point. I know it's weak, I know it's stupid.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

But that is the same advice you were giving earlier. That is the point. I know it's weak, I know it's stupid.

It's not the same advice.

Mine is that if you are ready to be committed to someone for the rest of your life, and are at a point where you both are ready to settle in your lives, why not.

[Kosher Ham]

Exactly why not ?

Being married won't change you going to school will it ? Will it stop you from achieving your goals ? You say you are committed, seem to be focused, I would think that with 4 years invested you are pretty settled.

So just do it.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Exactly why not ?

Being married won't change you going to school will it ? Will it stop you from achieving your goals ? You say you are committed, seem to be focused, I would think that with 4 years invested you are pretty settled.

So just do it.

It will change responsibilities. The less responsibilities had while in school enables one to focuse more.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It will change responsibilities. The less responsibilities had while in school enables one to focuse more.

There is no reason on earth to get married at 21.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

There is no reason on earth to get married at 21.

Thank you....I'm aiming for about 25.

[codeorama]

While I am not a "christian" and I'm opposed to organized religion, I respect and support the sanctity of marriage. I grew up in a loving family, my parents are still married, in fact, I can't think of anyone in my extended family that is divorced. Sure, my parents had disagreements and hard times, but they fought through it.

My wife and I have had our share of "fights" but we are committed to each other. I think divorce has become too easy. People give up and don't work on their relationships. A relationship is all about compromises. I know that my wife and I are committed to each other. Our son depends on us. I want him to grow up in the same loving environment that I had when I was growing up.

When you decide to have a child, you have to understand, its not just your spouse that you are walking away from, its your child. I cannot fathom being without my son. Since kids are not in your future, this obviously doesn't apply to you.

When my wife and I get on each other's nerves, rather than walking away from each other and being selfish, we have to put our selfish needs aside for a minute and think about the big picture, which is our family.

Why should "you" get married? Well it depends. If you view divorce the same way as a gf/bf breakup, then you shouldn't get married. If you are committed to be with one person for the rest of your life, then why not be committed in ceremony? If the ceremony doesn't mean anything to you, then I guess there is no point in marriage. To me, being that I'm not a christian, the ceremony is all about the commitment. Its shared between my wife and I. That's part of our commitment to each other. We can't just walk away.

[Blondie]

I have thought about all of the things each of you said.

This afternoon, I talked a very long time with a girlfriend of mine who has been close to me since high school. As we talked, I told her.......about moving to Florida and being scared of marriage.

My friend asked me........if he would move to Texas, would you marrry him?
In a heartbeat I said.

Woah.

Then it dawned on me.

It is not the marriage........so much as it is moving from Texas. I would leave my job, my family, my life as I have known it. THIS is my comfort zone. Marriage makes it permanent. A commitment. I am committed to a man in a place I dont know.

It is leaving my comfort zone.

That is truly my fear.

Many of you were sort of correct. I want the commitment.....but.....the commitment ties me down. I am not scared of being tied to this man......I am scared of being tied to this man AWAY from my home.

No support.

No family.

No friends.

Talk about stepping out on faith.

I guess I was thinking that if I lived with him, I could come home to mama if I needed to do so.

But when I realized I would marry him if he was here.......I realized that is it not the "marriage" that scares me.

It is leaving what I know.

I feel calmer having read what each of you has said. You really did help me in thinking about my life.......and what I want to have in my life.

Thanks guys.

Love ya lots!!!

Now, if I can just get him to move to Texas......all will be good in the Blondie house!!

:laugh:

[MissU28]

There is no reason on earth to get married at 21.


Exactly. I used to want to be married right out of college. Now, I can't even imagine what that would have been like. I am so different now than I was at 21. I have matured a lot and grown up a lot.

You should wait until you are able to support yourself financially and you have a career in line before you get married. Don't rush into it just to do it.


To Blondie...
I live with my boyfriend and we will probably get married in the future, but not for another 2 years or so.

I don't plan to live in California forever, and he wants to go back to the east coast (he's from Connecticut). One of my main reasons to come out here was because of him. That sort of relates to you thinking of moving to Florida...my brother's out here, but I don't really see him that much...and my mom's all alone in VA with my two dogs..and I miss them ALL so much. I know this move is not permanent but it really was hard moving and leaving everyone behind.

When I first got out here, I cried almost every night for at least a month...I was happy but it was a big change. I still get pretty emotional sometimes if I have a fight with my boyfriend or if I start thinking about how great my former job and friends were. I don't really have my own female friends out here...a couple, but not really. I hang out mostly with my boyfriend's friends, which I completely enjoy, but I really miss my friends from back home. It's HARD.

But....you are a strong person. You would be able to do it. It will take getting used to, but you would be able to do it. I try to go home 3 or 4 times a year, and you would be able to fly back anytime. And...nothing is permanent. If it is not for you, you can go back. You should go out there, live with him for a while, and then decide if you want to get married. Even though some people say that you shouldn't live with someone before you get married, I call BS. Living with my boyfriend, we see each other's faults and work through things as they come at us. We've dealt with so many things already...when it finally comes time to get married, our relationship will be stronger and certain things that may cause huge fights will seem smaller because we've dealt with them before.

In any case, change is hard. But it can be good. Try it. Northing is permanent.

[a778999]

The main difference between the two is that you have to give up half of your money when you break up from a marriage.

[mardi gras skin]

This afternoon, I talked a very long time with a girlfriend of mine who has been close to me since high school. As we talked, I told her.......about moving to Florida and being scared of marriage.

My friend asked me........if he would move to Texas, would you marrry him?
In a heartbeat I said.

Woah.

Then it dawned on me.

It is not the marriage........so much as it is moving from Texas. I would leave my job, my family, my life as I have known it. THIS is my comfort zone. Marriage makes it permanent. A commitment. I am committed to a man in a place I dont know.

It is leaving my comfort zone.

That is truly my fear.

wow. That was a great post to read. I'm happy for you. Its neat to hear from a person who is really alive and is dealing with the big choices that come from living.

Good luck to you Blondie, and God bless. :)

[Hubbs]

:bsflag:

Its an excuse people (especially men) make to get sex before they have to commit.

Pretty superficial and self-serving line of thought if you ask me.:2cents:

...what?

Most couples nowadays are having sex long before they even consider living together. The two are almost completely unrelated.

[stevenaa]

I have thought about all of the things each of you said.

This afternoon, I talked a very long time with a girlfriend of mine who has been close to me since high school. As we talked, I told her.......about moving to Florida and being scared of marriage.

My friend asked me........if he would move to Texas, would you marrry him?
In a heartbeat I said.

Woah.

Then it dawned on me.

It is not the marriage........so much as it is moving from Texas. I would leave my job, my family, my life as I have known it. THIS is my comfort zone. Marriage makes it permanent. A commitment. I am committed to a man in a place I dont know.

:laugh:


AHA!!!! This is something I know about. I met my wife while her parents were stationed at AAFB in MD. We got engaged, married and moved to TX. So I did what you are contemplating. Moved far away from everything comfortable to a strange place with no friends or family of my own, outside of my new family. My advice is this. If you love him, if you believe he is the one, go for it. Marriage is a wonderful thing. I wouldn't give it up for anything. The new scenery might do you good as well. There's nothing like being forced out of your comfort zone to help you grow. And what better way to grow than with your new partner. I will now give you my two "secrets" to a happy marriage.

1) Never, under any circumstance, no matter how irritated you are, call your spouse a name. It can never be taken back and it will never be forgoten.
2) Discuss and take divorce of the table as an option under any circumstance. If it is not an option, you will work harder to resolve problems to maintain your happiness. Nothing like the thought of a misearable marriage to make you work on things if there is no way out. Happiness trumps Misery every time.

[Blondie]

Thanks to my friends on here and in life who sent me PMs and who called. I appreciate your support and thoughts on this. I have especially enjoyed reading and hearing about how each of you handled a situation like this.

I am under contract for this school year, so, this won't happen until next summer. I have 11 months to get prepared, stress, think, rethink and make this happen.

MissU, moving all the way across the country is tough. Did you move to be with your boyfriend or was that a bonus that came after you moved?

Thanks again everyone. I will update this as time passes.

[MissU28]

MissU, moving all the way across the country is tough. Did you move to be with your boyfriend or was that a bonus that came after you moved?



I had met him a few years prior...and then I started visiting him every time I had a vacation, almost once a month. So...I decided to just move out here, since I came out here all the time anyway.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So when your done doing whatever
And when your through doing whoever
You know Denton County will be right here waiting for you....

Come back to Texas
Its just not the same since you went away
Before you lose your accent
And forget all about the Lonestar State
There's a seat for you at the rodeo
And I've got every slow dance saved
Besides the Mexican food sux north of here anyway

Troy Aikmen wants you back
Willie Nelson wants you back
NASA wants you back
And the Bush twins want you back
And Pantera wants you back
And Blue Bell wants you back

I got a premonition
I'm taking a petition
And the whole state's gonna sign