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Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 08:02 AM
Found this interesting article:

Two-Tight-End Sets Work in Redskins' Favor (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/32785-two-tight-end-sets-work-in-redskins-favor)



by Jack Anderson

When the Redskins drafted tight end Fred Davis with a second-round pick, many fans' initial reaction was that the pick was wasted. After all, Chris Cooley held down the ship more than adequately last season. He has been a huge favorite in DC, and moving him did not appear to be option.

Jim Zorn reassured fans that Cooley would still be a factor, and that Davis was brought in to help form a quality, two-tight-end set.

Cooley was the top target of QB Jason Campbell last season, hauling in 66 passes for 786 yards and eight TDs. Campbell established a strong rapport with Cooley, and he was more consistent in his throws when passing to the tight end.

Davis was the nation's finest, collegiate tight end last year, winning the John Mackey award for the top tight end in the country. His addition, upon further examination, is a good one.

Campbell's accuracy and confidence increased when throwing to tight ends last season. He wasn't the same when throwing to WRs. Maybe it was the drops that plagued them early on, or maybe it was the size difference (Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El are both significantly shorter than Cooley), but whatever the case, Campbell missed throws to WRs that he didn't miss to TEs.

So Zorn decided to play to Campbell's strength and stole another TE for him. Davis was the best player available at that point, so Zorn decided to take a chance.


click on the link for the rest of the story.

Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 08:07 AM
I like this story and I think it plays into a more significant issue. I don't have the stats on Campbell's accuracy on the short routes, but it has been a consistent criticism of Campbell on these throws, dating back to 2006 when he first started. I know that JC throws a pretty forceful pass, which is quite different from Brunell's and Collins's. But this gives some more positive opinions on how Davis could be a great help to Campbell this season. I've wondered about this guy's route running abilities, and it seems that he's a pretty good route runner. If he can catch JC's passes over the middle early in the season, especially early on while the two rookie WRs are still learning, it can really help us progress our offense.

dubskin
July-1st-2008, 08:26 AM
He threw the ball pretty well to the wide receivers most of the time also. They just couldn't catch the ball.

Robbnva
July-1st-2008, 08:34 AM
I will get bashed for this but I you can put this down in the books, Santana Moss and ARE will NOT be Redskins in the 2010 season (possibly even 2009 depending on how the new guys work out)

Steve567
July-1st-2008, 08:39 AM
I will get bashed for this but I you can put this down in the books, Santana Moss and ARE will NOT be Redskins in the 2010 season (possibly even 2009 depending on how the new guys work out)

I definitley think that is an overstatement. They both didn't put up the numbers to be dominate WR's in the league. Moss has put up solid numbers for two years, although he is constantly hurt. I can't say that scenario hasn't run through my head, but Santana is our guy at the moment.

Mr. S
July-1st-2008, 08:42 AM
depending on how Tryon and maybe another youngster does at returning, I don't think Randle El will be here after this season. Contract salaries usually accelerate anyways between the 3rd and 4th season. I think Moss stays as our pure deep threat.

Hubbs
July-1st-2008, 08:47 AM
A tight end is a young quarterback's best friend, so having two good ones can only help Campbell.

The problem isn't Davis' existence. The problem is that, barring a series of miracles along the defensive line, the pick probably would have been better spent injecting some youth into that unit.

chow184
July-1st-2008, 08:52 AM
I will get bashed for this but I you can put this down in the books, Santana Moss and ARE will NOT be Redskins in the 2010 season (possibly even 2009 depending on how the new guys work out)

barring catastrophic injury or pressure to get below a salary cap,you couldn't be anymore wrong


Moss has proven he can play at a high level as has Randle El
they're just prone to nagging injuries like pulls and strains.



Devin Thomas and Malcom Kelly would need to come in and dominate to just become starters,and we aren't in any immediate cap stress and I'm sure the team would prefer to have Moss/ARE/Kelly/Thomas.

to even fathom cutting Moss and ARE both Kelly and Thomas would have to be good WR's. Right now they haven't played a single game.


maybe one of the 2 rookies is a bust?not as good as advertised or suffers a serious injury within the next 2 years?

good chance that tag will apply to atleast 1 of them when all is said and done,and your saying we'll cut moss and Randle El by next offseason?

from a personnel standpoint that's just stupid on so many levels,your gambling on unproven talent,and your throwing out a player(s) that have been effective at the NFL level.

IbleedBnG83
July-1st-2008, 09:01 AM
Cutting ARE and Moss would mean we would be back at square one with a slim WR roster. We know what Moss is capable of and I think ARE really stepped up last year. If anythign, they redo their contracts.

Great article though. Saw that on CBS

SkInZKId2121
July-1st-2008, 09:16 AM
you have too keep ARE and moss for at least 2 more years and it would still be very smart to keep at least one longer than that... thats if the two rookies pan out like they should

JC girl
July-1st-2008, 09:22 AM
I am very excited about having two great tight ends. If we use this effectively it will be hard to stop. Let's just hope we can get everyone in sync fast. Here's to finally having a dynamic offense!

No Excuses
July-1st-2008, 09:34 AM
Randle El is gone if he doesn't take a significant paycut next year. Too much money when we have cheaper options behind him and he doesn't do a great job at what we need him to.

jrockster21
July-1st-2008, 09:46 AM
depending on how Tryon and maybe another youngster does at returning, I don't think Randle El will be here after this season. Contract salaries usually accelerate anyways between the 3rd and 4th season. I think Moss stays as our pure deep threat.


Yeah, I think Moss will be kept around, depending on how he does this year. He's moving back to the "deep threat" role, the role he excelled in in 2005 and 2003 (with the Jets).

ARE is probably gone after this season - looks like his best days as a returner are behind him, and he's no better than an 800/4 guy at wideout.

Wrenkels
July-1st-2008, 09:49 AM
Brunell and Collins have weak arms. Campbell has a cannon for a arm. I guess you can say that A Mix played with JC in College ansd is a big target. That having a taller receiver would give a QB a larger target to throw to in a wider scope. Two tightends will cause match up nightmares for a defense. Moss and Randel El are short in stature, but are quicker making the defense put a single CB on them. This is going to work.

TheLongshot
July-1st-2008, 09:58 AM
I find it amusing that when we actually get good depth at a position that people want to get rid of that depth.

I don't see Moss and ARE going anywhere anytime soon. I think ARE will benefit by moving back to slot. I think he was miscast as an outside receiver. As for Moss, I wonder if some of his recent problems is from the fact that he's not used to a hard thrower throwing to him, being that he's had Pennington and Brunell throwing to him for most of his career. I hope he learns to adjust.

Califan007
July-1st-2008, 10:22 AM
I find it amusing that when we actually get good depth at a position that people want to get rid of that depth.

My thinking exactly :applause: ...With our only other options at wr being Thrash (who will be gone before either Moss or ARE) and Mix (who's TALL), we would be fools to get rid of either one next year or even the year after that, even if both Thomas and Kelly end up panning out for us. Restructure their contracts? Sure. Give Kelly and Thomas more playing time eventually? No problem. Cutting both Moss and ARE outright because "we don't need them anymore"? Shortsighted and insane.

skindogger47
July-1st-2008, 10:44 AM
I like the Davis pick to a degree, and I now won't have to hold my breath every time Cooley gets up slowly (or Moss or ARE either, isn't that nice?), but my only question about the two tight end set thing is this: Couldn't Sellers do it? He's a good receiver, and about the size of an O lineman. Why not have him in there? I guess we can now run a pretty sick jumbo package, wish we had that option the last two years.

Also, I am really beginning to like Todd Yoder a lot. I hope he still gets some PT because he is a pretty damn good #2 TE. Great #3.

BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan
July-1st-2008, 11:01 AM
I knew when we drafted Davis(although I was not initially happy with it), that 2 tight end sets would definately help our offense out. While our young receivers are still developing, we can run these 2TE sets whille drive defenses bonkers. I can't wait to see what Zorn does with them during the season.

elkabong82
July-1st-2008, 11:10 AM
Good article. I've also said I believe it makes sense because it gives JC better redzone targets, and redzone was our weakest point, IMO, last season. I know we have 2 rookie WRs to help in the redzone also, but as other posters have pointed out, rookie WRs rarely contribute a ton their first year. Rookie TEs however....

elkabong82
July-1st-2008, 11:11 AM
Another thing: Dallas was running the 2 TE set to help Romo out as well last season. They lost Fasano in FA, and what round did Dallas draft a TE in, even though they have Witten? You guessed it, the 2nd round.

Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 11:11 AM
A tight end is a young quarterback's best friend, so having two good ones can only help Campbell.

The problem isn't Davis' existence. The problem is that, barring a series of miracles along the defensive line, the pick probably would have been better spent injecting some youth into that unit.


I knew when we drafted Davis(although I was not initially happy with it), that 2 tight end sets would definately help our offense out. While our young receivers are still developing, we can run these 2TE sets whille drive defenses bonkers. I can't wait to see what Zorn does with them during the season.

I was too. And i was definately favoring a DE instead of Davis. But the more I read about his Cooley-like abilities, sure hands, and good route running abilities, the more I think that he can help out JC more than any of our draft picks.

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2008/03/31/pros-and-cons-usc-te-fred-davis/

[quoote]Davis has great hands and rarely drops a pass. He is a team leader. He is athletic and a great route runner. Davis is quick and knows how to separate from from defenders and get open.[/quote]

Morneblade
July-1st-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm not sold on it, but we'll see how it works out.

I will say this though. If Davis doesnt provide much on offense, Daneils plays like 35 year old and James is still not up to speed, people are gonna want Vinny's head for taking a TE over a DE.

Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 11:32 AM
A tight end is a young quarterback's best friend, so having two good ones can only help Campbell.

The problem isn't Davis' existence. The problem is that, barring a series of miracles along the defensive line, the pick probably would have been better spent injecting some youth into that unit.

The thing about Davis vs a DE is that I'm more confident that our Defense can remain respectable and develop under Blache than I am that JC could have a breakout season establishing himself as the starting QB of the Redskins with last year's group of WRs. Even the drafting of Thomas (and eventually Kelly) was probably due to some speculation as WRs take time to develop and I don't want the success or failure of our QB to be dependant on throwing to what was the worse WR group in the NFC East last year and some rookies who, even if good WRs may not pan out until 2 or 3 years from now.

I contrast that with the possibility of adding a DE which could sure up our pass ruch problems and possibly rank us up there in the 40+ area of sacks, possibly moving us to a top 3 or 4 defense. But do you really want a top 3 or 4 defense and middle of the road offense, where at the end of another year the entire organization is wondering if Jason Campbell is ever going to be an elite QB or just another first round bust?

At least now we've put the weapons in JC's hands that he should be able to make some significant progress if not this year, then definately by the time his contract expires. And if he doesn't, then we will have more confidence that it wasn't because he didn't have the weapons around him (like some say is the reason that Ramsey didn't succeed here).

Sonny9TD
July-1st-2008, 11:55 AM
Fred Davis will be good for Campbell or any other QB for that matter with his physical talent. I just hope his sleeping episode was not a sign of immaturity and that he doesn't care.

Fifty Gut
July-1st-2008, 12:31 PM
I like this story and I think it plays into a more significant issue. I don't have the stats on Campbell's accuracy on the short routes, but it has been a consistent criticism of Campbell on these throws, dating back to 2006 when he first started. I know that JC throws a pretty forceful pass, which is quite different from Brunell's and Collins's. But this gives some more positive opinions on how Davis could be a great help to Campbell this season. I've wondered about this guy's route running abilities, and it seems that he's a pretty good route runner. If he can catch JC's passes over the middle early in the season, especially early on while the two rookie WRs are still learning, it can really help us progress our offense.

Many young QBs have problems with touch. People act like this is unique to Campbell. For every bad short/intermediate throw he had last season, he in return had a good one. I agree though about the optimism. Three pass catchers Campbell can look at eye to eye can only be a positive thing.

Even with our passing game issues (at times), I still feel ARE had a good season. It's Moss who fell off until December when he was the Moss of '05 again.

jrockster21
July-1st-2008, 12:54 PM
I find it amusing that when we actually get good depth at a position that people want to get rid of that depth.


My thinking exactly :applause: ...With our only other options at wr being Thrash (who will be gone before either Moss or ARE) and Mix (who's TALL), we would be fools to get rid of either one next year or even the year after that, even if both Thomas and Kelly end up panning out for us. Restructure their contracts? Sure. Give Kelly and Thomas more playing time eventually? No problem. Cutting both Moss and ARE outright because "we don't need them anymore"? Shortsighted and insane.

I don't think anyone was saying to get rid of Moss and ARE because we WANT to (at least I certainly wasn't), we were saying they will be cap casualties*, especially if Kelly and Thomas work out.

I think Moss will rework his deal to stay in the b&g - ARE will probably not do so.



*if there is a salary cap

Darth Tater
July-1st-2008, 12:59 PM
Cutting ARE and Moss would mean we would be back at square one with a slim WR roster. We know what Moss is capable of and I think ARE really stepped up last year. If anythign, they redo their contracts.

Great article though. Saw that on CBS
By 2010, we will KNOW if Thomas and Kelly are better options plus we'll have had a couple of years to find back-ups in those positions. Moss and ARE are gone only if both Thomas and Kelly turn out and we've found better back-up options. We will NOT be slim at WR or at least no more slim than any other option. I'll agree that most likely, only one of the two we drafted will become starter material and maybe neither. No one can say we won't find better options than Moss and ARE over the next two years (of course, no one can say we will). I wouldn't be surprised to see both ARE and Moss gone by 2010 although I would not bet on it.

KNGwithOUTaCrwN
July-1st-2008, 01:02 PM
I will get bashed for this but I you can put this down in the books, Santana Moss and ARE will NOT be Redskins in the 2010 season (possibly even 2009 depending on how the new guys work out)

maybe not el but i think moss will still be around

Califan007
July-1st-2008, 01:13 PM
I don't think anyone was saying to get rid of Moss and ARE because we WANT to (at least I certainly wasn't), we were saying they will be cap casualties*, especially if Kelly and Thomas work out.

I think Moss will rework his deal to stay in the b&g - ARE will probably not do so.



*if there is a salary cap
If the Skins want to keep ARE and Moss, they won't be cap casualties. Jansen has been figured to be a "cap casualty" for years now precisely because so many fans think he's expendable ("too many injuries, play has dropped off, he's too old", etc.). Yet the Skins value his presence enough to keep him on regardless. With the salary cap continuously rising and Snyder more than willing to use cash to keep players, I don't really see the cap coming into play.

And I do think there are a number of fans who WANT to get rid of either Moss or ARE (or both) if Kelly and Thomas pan out because they feel both are overrated and both are injury prone and both are too small...things like that.

Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 02:04 PM
Many young QBs have problems with touch. People act like this is unique to Campbell. For every bad short/intermediate throw he had last season, he in return had a good one. I agree though about the optimism. Three pass catchers Campbell can look at eye to eye can only be a positive thing.

Even with our passing game issues (at times), I still feel ARE had a good season. It's Moss who fell off until December when he was the Moss of '05 again.

Ya know, I've been reading stories like this about young qbs having problems with touch, locking on their initial WRs, and reading defenses (all of which people have said that JC struggled with last year). The fact that I hear this is common and that I have confidence in Zorn's abilities as a quarterback coach kind of makes me think that JC will be okay with these things. I don't know how soon he will pick these things up though.

TheLongshot
July-1st-2008, 02:09 PM
I don't think anyone was saying to get rid of Moss and ARE because we WANT to (at least I certainly wasn't), we were saying they will be cap casualties*, especially if Kelly and Thomas work out.

I think Moss will rework his deal to stay in the b&g - ARE will probably not do so.

Is there a real need to rework either of their deals, particularly since the team planned things out way in advance? (Especially since Lloyd and his paycheck is gone.)

What we got are a couple of rookies who are probably going to be locked up for 4-5 years at a relatively cheap rate. Despite what some fans think, Moss and ARE are not disappointments. Until any of those players get to the point where they aren't worth having on the team due to performance or playing time, they are going to be on this team for a while.

Jason

Robbnva
July-1st-2008, 02:30 PM
I find it amusing that when we actually get good depth at a position that people want to get rid of that depth.


Did I say i wanted Moss and ARE gone? NO I didn't, I just predict that they will be gone.

Yusuf06
July-1st-2008, 02:46 PM
Here's a bit more info. on two tight end sets in general plus a blurb or two about Zorn/Holmgren's use of it in Seattle.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-10-18-nfl-report_x.htm
The latest to employ the shotgun was Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, who used it on a few snaps for the first time in Sunday's win against the Rams.

Hasselbeck and quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn used it as a corrective measure for the pressure Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett was mounting.

"This was the first time we used Matt in shotgun," Zorn says. "He's always had the option to be in gun. But both he and I like the option to be under center. (....and there goes Oldfan's theory about the shotgun gaining ascendency here -Y) The rhythm and the timing of the drop really makes the timing of throws much better than the timing of the gun, where you have to retime your throws. But we tried it this week."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3193845
As Holmgren uses the coming weeks to contemplate his professional future, he might also wonder how far the Seahawks might have gone had they only found a reliable tight end for an offense that historically demands one....

...Holmgren generally likes to get 75 to 80 catches per season from his tight ends.


http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2008/4/21/446904/sbnation-nfl-mock-draft-pi
Mike Holmgren runs the tightest West Coast in the NFL, and his tight ends must be able to inline block, chip, run precise patterns and above all else, actually play the tight end position on the field. You know, off tackle, strong side. While Fred Davis or Dustin Keller might be considered better overall athletes, the 6'3" and 6'2", respectively, "rocked up slot receivers" would be badly mismatched in Holmgren's scheme. Last season, Holmgren squeezed life out of the craggy Marcus Pollard: 15th ranked DPAR, 5th ranked DVOA. Had Pollard run the 40 last season, his time would have been in linemen country, but Seattle's scheme never required burner speed or Gatesian athleticism, only versatility, good timing and deception.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/10/20/ramblings/strategy-minicamps/4412/
Two-tight end sets place seven blockers on the line of scrimmage. Most defenses operate on a base 4-3 scheme. A seven-on-four battle in the trenches puts the defense at a severe disadvantage. When possible, defensive coordinators move one or more linebackers down to the line of scrimmage to create a 50 front when facing a multi-tight end formation. The seven-on-five matchup gives the defense a fighting chance. But against some teams, it’s just not wise to put an extra defender on the line of scrimmage. The Cowboys have two of the best wide receivers in football, and opposing defenses need all available bodies in pass coverage. Bill Parcells and his assistants know that they can pick up easy yardage on the ground by executing simple plays while the defense is on its heels.

Oldskool
July-1st-2008, 02:46 PM
For those that would have rather had a DE than Davis, go back in the draft after we selected Davis and tell me who you would have selected..

The DE's taken in the 2nd round after the Davis pick are as follows:

Calais Campbell
Quentin Groves
Jason Jones

None of these guys will be a true pass rushing threat in the NFL. Solid DE's but not one of them would start this year in place of Daniels.

I was wanting a DE very badly this year in the draft, but I also knew and stated several times that the DE crop this year was very talented at the top but once you got done with the top 5 or so players, the talent level dropped to a great degree.

The Davis pick makes sense because of how the WCO is played. Along with the Kelly and Thomas selections, it was needed to overhaul the receivers on the roster to run a smooth, consistent short to mid range passing attack.

Dallas used a 2 TE set to their advantage last year. Indy and New England did and have for years as well.

Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 02:59 PM
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2008/4/21/446904/sbnation-nfl-mock-draft-pi


Mike Holmgren runs the tightest West Coast in the NFL, and his tight ends must be able to inline block, chip, run precise patterns and above all else, actually play the tight end position on the field. You know, off tackle, strong side. While Fred Davis or Dustin Keller might be considered better overall athletes, the 6'3" and 6'2", respectively, "rocked up slot receivers" would be badly mismatched in Holmgren's scheme. Last season, Holmgren squeezed life out of the craggy Marcus Pollard: 15th ranked DPAR, 5th ranked DVOA. Had Pollard run the 40 last season, his time would have been in linemen country, but Seattle's scheme never required burner speed or Gatesian athleticism, only versatility, good timing and deception.

So he's saying that Davis doesn't fit into the Holmgren offense? I've heard kinda contradictory reports on his blocking abilities, but I have heard he can run routes and catch. If anything, I feel that he can help JC with the over the middle stuff, and learn to do the run protection stuff.

Thinking Skins
July-1st-2008, 03:02 PM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/10/20/ramblings/strategy-minicamps/4412/

Two-tight end sets place seven blockers on the line of scrimmage. Most defenses operate on a base 4-3 scheme. A seven-on-four battle in the trenches puts the defense at a severe disadvantage. When possible, defensive coordinators move one or more linebackers down to the line of scrimmage to create a 50 front when facing a multi-tight end formation. The seven-on-five matchup gives the defense a fighting chance. But against some teams, it’s just not wise to put an extra defender on the line of scrimmage. The Cowboys have two of the best wide receivers in football, and opposing defenses need all available bodies in pass coverage. Bill Parcells and his assistants know that they can pick up easy yardage on the ground by executing simple plays while the defense is on its heels.

That was a nice example of using the two tight end set, but how could you leave this out:



The modern two-tight end set was developed by Joe Gibbs and his Redskins staff in the early 1980s. It was created as a countermeasure against 3-4 defenses in general and Lawrence Taylor in particular. Gibbs discovered that an extra tight end on the line of scrimmage was in better position than a fullback to stop Taylor and other elite blitzers. Gibbs soon learned to use the second tight end as an all-purpose blocker: that extra tight end (usually Don Warren, back in the day) might go in motion before the snap to unbalance the offensive line, or he might slip into the backfield as a fullback or sneak into pass patterns. The modern H-back was born.

The two-tight end base offense enjoyed a brief 80s heyday, with the Redskins, Chargers, and a few other teams using it as their standard package for a few seasons. When the West Coast Offense came into vogue, fullbacks made a resurgence. Most teams had a two-tight end package in their playbooks, but it was a short-yardage formation or a wrinkle: few teams drafted and built around a two-tight end philosophy.

The recent return of the H-back and the two-tight end set can partially be credited to comebacks by the 3-4 defense and by Gibbs. But it is also an adjustment to the personnel that is currently available. Colleges send the NFL plenty of quality tight end prospects every year, most of them top athletes who are able to run, block, and catch. Meanwhile, most college fullbacks are slow-footed lead blockers. Pro coaches need the versatility that the tight ends provide, and multi-tight end sets allow them to mass as many as four eligible receivers near the line of scrimmage. Those extra tight ends give coaches plenty of options

Yusuf06
July-1st-2008, 03:43 PM
Hey, I was trying to limit large blocks of text as outlined in the ES rulebook. But, there's nothing in there about serial posts that end up accomplishing the same thing. Way to go. :cheers:

As for Davis' shortcomings as mentioned in the above article, I don't know that I'd call him a bulked-up slot guy. He's just not that fast. However, I do think he can be a slightly faster version of Cooley IF he puts in the time to improve his route running. Neither of he nor Cooley is going to win any blocking contests though so that's still a problem.

Oldskool
July-1st-2008, 05:48 PM
As for Davis' shortcomings as mentioned in the above article, I don't know that I'd call him a bulked-up slot guy. He's just not that fast. However, I do think he can be a slightly faster version of Cooley IF he puts in the time to improve his route running. Neither of he nor Cooley is going to win any blocking contests though so that's still a problem.

I wouldn't say that route running is an issue for Davis at all. USC runs a modified WCO system and you don't lead your team in receiving in that type of system by running sloppy routes. Last year he was running not only TE routes but Split End routes as well.

Davis will have to work on his blocking, that is a given. The half assed effort he gave in college won't cut it in the pros.

LoudMouth12thMan
July-1st-2008, 05:57 PM
I will get bashed for this but I you can put this down in the books, Santana Moss and ARE will NOT be Redskins in the 2010 season (possibly even 2009 depending on how the new guys work out)
That's insanity based on two factors:
Santana is a solid #2 receiver on any team in the NFL, and ARE is a prototypical slot guy on any team as well. The question is, can one of these rookies become a #1 caliber receiver by next season in their second year? My hunch is that they are hoping that one of these guys Kelly or Thomas becomes a starting 1 or 2 this year (at the earliest) but at least by the start of the '09 season. :2cents:
HTTR

TakeTheFG
July-1st-2008, 06:06 PM
You know why JC is comfortable with Cooley. He can run any route necessary, unlike our other WR and the guy can flat out catch any ball in near vicinity

Pedro
July-1st-2008, 07:29 PM
I like the Davis pick to a degree, and I now won't have to hold my breath every time Cooley gets up slowly (or Moss or ARE either, isn't that nice?), but my only question about the two tight end set thing is this: Couldn't Sellers do it? He's a good receiver, and about the size of an O lineman. Why not have him in there? I guess we can now run a pretty sick jumbo package, wish we had that option the last two years.

Also, I am really beginning to like Todd Yoder a lot. I hope he still gets some PT because he is a pretty damn good #2 TE. Great #3.

Heavy Jumbo in weight order

Mike Sellars 6-3 284
Todd Yoder 6-4 253
Chris Cooley 6-3 249
Fred Davis 6-3 247
Anthony Mix 6-5 235 (I expect about 220 come preseason)
Malcolm Kelly 6-3 219
Devin Thomas 6-1 218

As can be seen that's 4 guys at around 250lbs or more plus another 3 around 220lbs. Six at 6-3 or more in stark contrast to last season.


On the 2 TE sets re: Davis I expect him to do well in his rookie season. Teams struggle to match up to Cooley already so their second best guy will be on Davis. Now imagine a 4 or 5 WR set close to the goal line, with guys taken from the above list, and imagine the mismatches with teams trying to find that many big guys who can cover.... I'm expecting a trucking convention :D