TSN:10-pack: Breaking down the Jason Taylor trade

[artmonkforHOF]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=436593

I actually found this article while doing a google search for Quentin Grooves. The author brings up a few points that I wanted to share about this trade and the draft in general.

----
6. Keep an eye on Calais. Back in April, defensive line was a clear need for the Redskins, especially in light of what the 2007 Giants were able to prove to the rest of the NFL about the value of a dominant front four. While the Redskins opted not to trade for Taylor before the draft, they also chose not to use their first-round pick (which they traded to the Falcons) or any of their three second-round picks on an end.

Instead, the Redskins picked receiver Devin Thomas (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:fantasyPopup%28%27nfl%27,%208811%29) and tight end Fred Davis (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:fantasyPopup%28%27nfl%27,%208825%29) in Round 2 at a time when Miami defensive end Calais Campbell was still on the board.

If Campbell becomes a stud in Arizona, the Redskins rightly should be criticized for ignoring this area of need and then putting themselves in a position where they had no choice but to give up next year's second-rounder for an aging pass rusher who might or might not have anything left in the tank.

7. Keep an eye on Quentin, too. The Redskins used all three of those second-round picks while Auburn defensive end Quentin Groves was still available. Regarded by some scouts as a potential locker-room problem, the Jaguars nevertheless pounced on him at 52nd overall, even after trading into the top 10 of the first round to get defensive end Derrick Harvey.

So if Groves turns out to be a monster, the 'Skins again should be criticized for using a trio of picks on offensive positions that generally were under control when the importance of having a strong pass rush couldn't have been any more clear.
-----click link for rest of article

I would love for taylor to have a monster year, but this trade shows how badly the team managed this past draft and offseason. The article didn't even mention we had a shot a Phillip Merling at #21 before we traded the pick away, and now somewhat ironic, Merling might be the guy who takes Taylors spot for the Dolphins. I was really dissapointed we didn't take him and now I will be watching Merling even closer this season.

We are now mortgaging our future to get a stop gap solution-and not a cheap one at that- at the DE position, so we could go out and draft 2 WR's and a TE we don't need, instead of either keeping the #21 pick and going with Merling or still making the trade and picking up another quality young DE with one of our 3 2nd round picks. After the draft I was screaming mad about not drafting our needs, and the Daniels injury just magnified the poor decision making back in April.

[FedUpField]

Just because a player becomes a monster for one team doesn't mean he'd have done it for another. Think about countless players who play huge on one team, score a fat free agent contract and then proceed to fade into mediocrity on their new team...more often than not, it's the system or the surrounding talent that makes a player -- we drafted for need and we drafted well -- and now we have a pro bowl pass rushing defensive end as a stopgap solution for 1 - 2 years for a decent price well within our cap ('mortgaging our future'?! that's so 2003!). The future is now -- not in the potential of maybes and what if college DE's. Get over the draft, get over the trade and just hope we don't have anymore injuries that jeopardize our depth.

- FUF

[Thinking Skins]

Even more, we should look at what the Cardinals adn Jaguars do with the guys Campbell and Groves are replacing. I was saying that instead of trading a second for Taylor, we could trade a lower pick, or just watch the waiver wire for some of these guys.

But I'm not as mad about what we traded (a second is decent value for him), as I am about the fact that we traded at all.

But as always, I'll get over it.

[skinsfanindallas88]

ok I'm going to say this very VERY slowly

THE...REDSKINS...DID...NOT...MORTGAGE...THE...FUTU RE

got that champ?

We gave up ONE second round pick...a 50/50 shot in the dark

and ONE sixth round pick...how many sixth round picks become even mediocre players?

plus we can use the SIX picks we currently have remaining on a young DE that can be mentored by JT

[dwbiggs]

We are now mortgaging our future to get a stop gap solution-and not a cheap one at that- at the DE position, so we could go out and draft 2 WR's and a TE we don't need
This is the bottom line.

[Runs with Scissors]

What if these DEs are busts? Will they say how smart we were?


they had no choice but to give up next year's second-rounder for an aging pass rusher who might or might not have anything left in the tank.

Or use that 2nd round pick on an unproven DE in next years draft,who might or might not ever have anything in the tank.

[artmonkforHOF]

ok I'm going to say this very VERY slowly

THE...REDSKINS...DID...NOT...MORTGAGE...THE...FUTU RE

got that champ?

We gave up ONE second round pick...a 50/50 shot in the dark

and ONE sixth round pick...how many sixth round picks become even mediocre players?

plus we can use the SIX picks we currently have remaining on a young DE that can be mentored by JT

That is if there is a good DE availbe where we pick. This past draft, we needed DE, and there was more than one occasion where a DE was on the board in the first 2 rounds and we passed on them. Now we have to trade 2 draft picks to get a guy who will only play for 1 year or so, when we could have avoided this situation by taking a DE in the draft in the first place. It just makes Zorn, Vinny & co look like fools who don't know what they are doing.

[artmonkforHOF]

What if these DEs are busts? Will they say how smart we were?



Or use that 2nd round pick on an unproven DE in next years draft,who might or might not ever have anything in the tank.

yeah but a second round pick will not count for $8mill vs the cap now will they, nor do they have a sense of entiltement to go off and dance on national TV because they feel they have been to enough OTA's in their lifetime.

[Runs with Scissors]

yeah but a second round pick will not count for $8mill vs the cap now will they,

No,a 2nd round pick doesn't get 8 million till they can prove they can play,most never do.

[ucfSKINS]

We are now mortgaging our future to get a stop gap solution-and not a cheap one at that- at the DE position, so we could go out and draft 2 WR's and a TE we don't need,

Ok, well the TE you are right on, it was a luxury pick

However, you CANNOT tell me with a straight face that the WR position wasn't an issue. Even if you choose the Mix argument, Moss and ARE won't be around forever. So it was an issue, and we addressed it sooner than later. If we hadn't, then two years from now, you would be saying that we are "Mortgaging our future on a stop gap solution-and not a cheap one at that-at the WR position"

And, both Zorn and Cerrato said that the DE's they WOULD have used a 1st or 2nd round pick weren't on the board, so they chose the next best thing.

Good thing you don't work in the front office :doh:

[ouvan59]

I would love for taylor to have a monster year, but this trade shows how badly the team managed this past draft and offseason. The article didn't even mention we had a shot a Phillip Merling at #21 before we traded the pick away, and now somewhat ironic, Merling might be the guy who takes Taylors spot for the Dolphins. I was really dissapointed we didn't take him and now I will be watching Merling even closer this season.

We are now mortgaging our future to get a stop gap solution-and not a cheap one at that- at the DE position, so we could go out and draft 2 WR's and a TE we don't need, instead of either keeping the #21 pick and going with Merling or still making the trade and picking up another quality young DE with one of our 3 2nd round picks. After the draft I was screaming mad about not drafting our needs, and the Daniels injury just magnified the poor decision making back in April.

What happens if Merling stinks?

[ucfSKINS]

That is if there is a good DE availbe where we pick. This past draft, we needed DE, and there was more than one occasion where a DE was on the board in the first 2 rounds and we passed on them. Now we have to trade 2 draft picks to get a guy who will only play for 1 year or so, when we could have avoided this situation by taking a DE in the draft in the first place. It just makes Zorn, Vinny & co look like fools who don't know what they are doing.

So you're telling me that IF we drafted Groves or Campbell (Campbell wasn't available in the second), they could have steppped in right away and performed as well as Daniels, or even Evans for that matter?

C'mon man, even if we had drafted Groves, we would still most likely find another DE on the market after losing Daniels and Buzbee.

Granted, maybe we wouldn't have used the 2nd rounder, but probably would have given up some sort of draft pick if we were searching for a trade.

[Ernie5]

If Campbell becomes a stud in Arizona, the Redskins rightly should be criticized for ignoring this area of need and then putting themselves in a position where they had no choice but to give up next year's second-rounder for an aging pass rusher who might or might not have anything left in the tank.

Well, by that logic, any player you passed on in a position of need who becomes a stud should lead to immediate condemnation of the team. Makes zero sense. Plainly, the team didn't feel that Merling was a good pick at #21 (nor did anyone else) or that Campbell was in the second (for many, many good reasons). It's a crap-shoot, but you have to rely on your football people to assess talent.

I don't think either Merling or Campbell are going to be super studs, but the point is that at the places they were picking, the Redskins didn't think those players quite measured up and they DID believe the guys they picked were the best players available at those spots in the draft. That's generally how good teams draft -- you don't reach for position in the early rounds. They've basically said if Merling were around w/their 1st 2nd rounder they probably would have chosen him (he went the pick before), but not picking him at #21 hardly makes them wrong.

[Ernie5]

By the way, loathe as I am to trade a second round pick, I hardly think that trading away the 2009 2nd and 2010 6th is exactly "mortgaging our future." We drafted and signed 10 players this year. Some years all teams draft fewer players. Are the Saints mortgaging their future to trade for Shockey?

[mhearn]

i do not agree with picking fred davis just based on the draft value he had and it wasnt a hugeeeee need however it is an upgrade...however i do feel we needed the depth at receiver and especially more so if just one turns out to be good.

also they clearly didnt think that DE was a big need coming into the draft..they expected daniels to be healthy and when things got bad they made the best attempt they could with what they had available to them..there is always next years draft especially if we still have our first and can trade out and get an early second + a 3rd rounder or 2 2nd rounders again.

[Ernie5]

yeah but a second round pick will not count for $8mill vs the cap now will they, nor do they have a sense of entiltement to go off and dance on national TV because they feel they have been to enough OTA's in their lifetime.

Yeah, but because we planned ahead, we had the cap room to make the deal. Thank goodness.

[Cooley's Kidz]

you can say what if to a lot of situations.....

who cares, we got 3 guys who can finally put some points on the board which will certainly help.

we also finally got a playmaking DE for relatively cheap. if we can get 2 years out of him then that is a golden deal. who cares about cap space:

1. the cap does not apply to the washington redskins (see how we were some 19 million over the cap before the start of the season, and now had 9 million in free space) so if you want to make a cap arguement get out of town.

2. the league lets teams spend a certain amount of money each year, you may as well use it all.

let's just hope that we got our injuries out of the way for the rest of the season.

[s0crates]

Fred Davis is a good payer, but we did not need a tight end. I'm holding out hope that he will develop into a red-zone threat, but I agree with the OP that we should have used that pick to addresss depth up front. I cannot fault the front office on the WR picks though, they addressed a real need. Also, even though we paid a premium to get a stop-gap player like Jason Taylor, and even though it may have been avoided by drafting differently, credit the front office for getting a solid veteran fill-in when the need arose.

[paloosa]

Who cares about what we did or didn't do for the team in the Draft? What we did in the draft at WR was needed just as much as at DE. So we went to the offensive side of the ball and drafted two WR's and a TE. Those guys were rated higher in the draft than the DE's you talk about. So if we didn't take any of these guys and took one of those DE's then we would be talking about why we didn't take this guy or that guy. So we go and get Jason Taylor because Phillip Daniels went down. Yes he is 34 years old but he hasn't been injured and has been durable over the years. I think it is an upgrade from Daniels but with Daniels we were a good defense that got the job done. So wish in one hand and **** in the other.