WP Insider: The Immaculate Deception (aka Vinny is a liar)

[More Complete]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/


The Immaculate Deception

There is a reason the media schlubs around here have a hard time believing a lot of what comes out of Vinny Cerrato's mouth, and a reason he has credibility issues. Yesterday was a prime example, though hardly unprecedented in these parts. Cerrato repeatedly denied the team was interested in Jason Taylor to the local media (via text, phone call, and then in front of the camera at a press conference), from about 2 pm right up until he tripped over his own feet entering the media room to announce the trade.

Then today in multiple interviews, with ESPN and Sports Illustrated, he implicitly concedes that he was lying through his teeth to every media entity that covers the Redskins on a daily basis. Yet somehow he still wonders why people don't take him seriously? (This is also the guy who claims the team misquoted him in its own press release in 2005. I'll never quite fathom that one.

Here's what Cerrato said about the Jason Taylor trade talks on ESPN radio this morning:

"We went out to practice at 3:00, and I talked to Bill Parcells probably like three times on the practice field, back and forth. We went and discussed some different terms, we came in after practice, talked to 3 or 4 of the veterans players, and asked them what they thought, what type of guy and everything, they said great guy. Everything was positive. Called Parcells back around 6:15 and told them, we'll do the deal. We faxed papers back and forth, got Jason Taylor on the phone and we were done."

Peter King of SI posted today that Cerrato told him he called Parcells at 3:10 pm yesterday:
"I'd called Bill a couple of months ago, I guess, like a lot of other teams did, doing their due diligence, asking him what he was interested in for Taylor,'' Cerrato said. "But nothing ever came of it. I didn't talk to him again about it 'til this afternoon. Then, during the afternoon practice, I'd say I talked to Bill three times about the terms, trying to work something out.''

But yesterday, minutes after the afternoon practice was over, here is what Cerrato said to the local media, repeatedly: "We haven't talked to anybody yet on anything." He then denied, again, any attempts to land Taylor to representatives of virtually every media entity that approached him at Redskins Park.

Now, is lying to the media anything new? Nah. And hey, it's his prerogative I suppose. But most people are more astute that this, maybe find a way to cover their tracks a little bit better. And, more to the point, most pros in the sports business learned long ago how to say - "No comment," or "Hey, we're working on things to make our team better and we'll let you know if we complete something." It's pretty easy to send a signal without destroying what was left of your credibility with the people who cover you only hours into the first day of your first training camp as the head of the Redskins' front office (with that fancy executive vice president title an all)

No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.

[More Complete]

JLC says: No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.

If that's true then why write about it? Sour grapes that's why!

[greenspandan]

hahaha whatever dude. this article just sounds super whiney. i don't remember woodward and bernstein blogging about how nixon refused to help them with their expose' on him.

[pez]

IF he had mentioned any dealing, he would have had to deal with an onslaught of questions and calls from media, rather than focusing on the contract...

[NorthEast Skin]

Of course we talked to Miami months ago. That was accepted in my mind and one of the reasons this happened so fast.

This guy acts like a little spoiled kid.

[Truant]

The only surprise would be if anyone really thinks that a front office executive would be truthful and forthcoming about an on-going trade discussion.

[DieselPwr44]

I would hate to think that the GM of my team would run out and tell the press everything that's going on.

Another JLC piece laced with sour grapes.

[Sarge]

I'm sure in the sanctuary of his office overlooking the field, the danny sits every day and maps out scenerios to acquire every flashy player in the NFL, just in case

[herb mul-key]

Just wow...

From WP Redskins Insider http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

Posted at 3:27 PM ET, 07/21/2008
The Immaculate Deception
There is a reason the media schlubs around here have a hard time believing a lot of what comes out of Vinny Cerrato's mouth, and a reason he has credibility issues. Yesterday was a prime example, though hardly unprecedented in these parts. Cerrato repeatedly denied the team was interested in Jason Taylor to the local media (via text, phone call, and then in front of the camera at a press conference), from about 2 pm right up until he tripped over his own feet entering the media room to announce the trade.

Then today in multiple interviews, with ESPN and Sports Illustrated, he implicitly concedes that he was lying through his teeth to every media entity that covers the Redskins on a daily basis. Yet somehow he still wonders why people don't take him seriously? (This is also the guy who claims the team misquoted him in its own press release in 2005. I'll never quite fathom that one.

Here's what Cerrato said about the Jason Taylor trade talks on ESPN radio this morning:

"We went out to practice at 3:00, and I talked to Bill Parcells probably like three times on the practice field, back and forth. We went and discussed some different terms, we came in after practice, talked to 3 or 4 of the veterans players, and asked them what they thought, what type of guy and everything, they said great guy. Everything was positive. Called Parcells back around 6:15 and told them, we'll do the deal. We faxed papers back and forth, got Jason Taylor on the phone and we were done."

Peter King of SI posted today that Cerrato told him he called Parcells at 3:10 pm yesterday:
"I'd called Bill a couple of months ago, I guess, like a lot of other teams did, doing their due diligence, asking him what he was interested in for Taylor,'' Cerrato said. "But nothing ever came of it. I didn't talk to him again about it 'til this afternoon. Then, during the afternoon practice, I'd say I talked to Bill three times about the terms, trying to work something out.''

But yesterday, minutes after the afternoon practice was over, here is what Cerrato said to the local media, repeatedly: "We haven't talked to anybody yet on anything." He then denied, again, any attempts to land Taylor to representatives of virtually every media entity that approached him at Redskins Park.

Now, is lying to the media anything new? Nah. And hey, it's his prerogative I suppose. But most people are more astute that this, maybe find a way to cover their tracks a little bit better. And, more to the point, most pros in the sports business learned long ago how to say - "No comment," or "Hey, we're working on things to make our team better and we'll let you know if we complete something." It's pretty easy to send a signal without destroying what was left of your credibility with the people who cover you only hours into the first day of your first training camp as the head of the Redskins' front office (with that fancy executive vice president title an all)

No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.

[authentic]

As long as the Skins win football games, I don't care how much double talk Vinny does. Its not like he's being paid to be the pope. Get over it Jason, you're better than that!!!

[USS Redskins]

Isnt BS kind of SOP for this type of thing?
I am far from an expert but it seems every team "denies interest" or that they have talked to this player.... then the same team ends up with the player.
I figure its like playing poker - you cant show your hand - you gotta be cool and BS.

[Thinking Skins]

I can't say I blame JLC here. I mean what more can we go on than Vinny's word? The dude straight lied to the press yesterday.

[More Complete]

merge http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252235

[pez]

MEdia: Are you talking with Miami for Jason Taylor?

Cerrato: Yes... YEs we are... here are the three possible trade contracts we have come up with... (hands out large contract packages prepared for each reporter)

derr....

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Horrible job by JLC. How nit-picky can you get???

If he really wants our front office showing all of their cards WHILE A NEGOTIATION IS ONGOING, then he's in the wrong line of business.

Go blog about international soccer or your kid, we don't care to hear how you dislike business as usual moves by a front office.

Next week's blog: Zorn is deceptive by not making his play-calls public.

Idiot.

[MartinC]

I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.

Thats his opinion. I would say JLCs total absence of sources inside the Redskins makes his reporting anything but a "Redskins Insider". I also imagine Vinny is not losing any sleep about JLC not talking to him, if hes even noticed.

I actually do think that Vinny should have found a form of words which avoided actually telling lies but NFL coaches and GM's use the media all the time to get disinformation out when it is to their competitive advantage. Nothing to see here .....

[Popeman38]

There is a reason the media schlubs around here have a hard time believing a lot of what comes out of Vinny Cerrato's mouth, and a reason he has credibility issues. Yesterday was a prime example, though hardly unprecedented in these parts. Cerrato repeatedly denied the team was interested in Jason Taylor to the local media (via text, phone call, and then in front of the camera at a press conference), from about 2 pm right up until he tripped over his own feet entering the media room to announce the trade.He isn't allowed to comment on Jason Taylor. He is a player under contract with another team. If he mentions something, and the deal falls through, tampering charges would be filed. Hello, Minnesota and Green bay?
Now, is lying to the media anything new? Nah. And hey, it's his prerogative I suppose. But most people are more astute that this, maybe find a way to cover their tracks a little bit better. And, more to the point, most pros in the sports business learned long ago how to say - "No comment," or "Hey, we're working on things to make our team better and we'll let you know if we complete something." It's pretty easy to send a signal without destroying what was left of your credibility with the people who cover you only hours into the first day of your first training camp as the head of the Redskins' front office (with that fancy executive vice president title an all)If Vinny says "no comment", you would be salivating about how it is a Snyder vendetta against the Post to keep you in the dark. He followed league rules. You should learn these rules if you are the beat writer for the Post. Do your job, jackass. Or, be like Jason Reid and hide in a white closet with a Post banner behind you and file your "exclusive" inside report. I could do a better job right now, with 0 training.
No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.Me thinks JLC got slapped down and wasn't allowed to talk to Vinny. And that hurt his feewings.

Put your big boy pants on JLC, this is the way GMs work. Get used to it, or go cover Barry Melrose in Tampa, you biscuit lover!

[TheLongshot]

You know, the last thing Vinny wants is for everyone and their brother to know that they are interested in trading for a player, because another team could come in and either up the price for a player or take the player themselves?

The fact that the Shockey trade happened later gives cresenence to the rumors that there was a three-way trade in the works, which means that Skins weren't the only ones interested.

This is whiny posturing by JLC. The Skins under Snyder have always played things close to the vest. This is nothing new. I understand why JLC is frustrated, because his job depends on hearing about those little nuggets, but that's the way of things.

Jason

[Thinking Skins]

The only surprise would be if anyone really thinks that a front office executive would be truthful and forthcoming about an on-going trade discussion.

Why lie about it though? He outright said that we had not had any talks about jason Taylor, and all of a sudden we've traded for Taylor? At least be PC with it and say no comment. But you gonna lie?

What happened to Gibbs's high character standards for this team?

[SkinsGuy]

What a whiner!

Does JLC think any of us give a rat's butt that Cerrato lied to him?

JLC and many other media types have been such *******s to the Redskins that he is lucky Cerrato doesn't spit in his face when he sees him instead of just lying to it.

What this loser JLC doesn't tell you is things like this are SOP for a team.... to just deny, deny, deny...when really you're working things out.

I'm sure the Redskins didn't want knowledge of them going after Taylor to get out in case other teams that were interested in him might swoop in and a bidding war would've started.

Just saying "No comment" would've done nothing but confirmed it for people.

JLC has a hell of nerve whining about the treatment he claims to have gotten from Cerrato, considering what a lying, pot-stirring rat bastard he has been towards this team.

Screw him and the horse he rode in on.

[jthor99]

It's part of Vinny's job to not allow the media to know every little freakin thing that is going on behind the scenes. I have no issue at all with him lying or going around it to the local news people. The reason he leaked it to the national outlets is because by that time the deal was already done.

Typical GM protocall around the entire league and in sports in general

[bubba9497]

So did Jerry Reese say they were trading Shockey for a second .... last he said Shockey was a Giant and a big part of their plans this season


come on JLC, get over yourself

[CallMeGreen]

Frankly I don't mind deception from team's front office when it comes to personnel moves. I would hope the team is more up front with the players that are on the team, because that's where honesty counts.

I never really cared for all the rumors and apparent negotiations that used to take place through the media both in terms of proposed trades or free agent pickups. But I suspect much of that was drummed up by agents and columnists trying to build up interest.

We've also now heard that Philadelphia and the Saints (looking for 3-way action to get Shockey from the Giants) were hoping to get into business with Miami for Taylor. There were probably other teams interested that we haven't heard mentioned yet.

The point is, if using deception helps us make the deal, then sometimes you have to do it. I don't preach dishonesty as a rule, but since it's pretty clear this is the unwritten rule when dealing with the media on unfinished deals, I can accept that.

[chow184]

Vinny Ceratto is a gm his job when it comes to the media/other GM's/the draft is full of deceit and lying.

if the skins had a GM who spilled the beans to any media schlub who asked,I'd be afraid.


the fact that JLC is crying that vinny lied to him just goes to show how much of a crybaby JLC is and how much he dislikes the FO.

[TK]

Someone's a bitter little beyatch. Especially since Vinny has publicly said he didn't want anything to do with JLC. After garbage like this, who can blame him.

[D-Day]

NO NONE NAPA GM in sports lays out the details of the teams Draft Strategy, On Going Negotiations, or Trade Talks PERIOD. If they did they are accused of "working through the media" and that pisses all the other parties off to include the players, GM's and owners of the other teams.

STFU JLC just because you have a title "Insider" does not actually make you one. Perhaps if you covered the skins with a bit of optimism (NOT Homerism) instead on constantly bashing them they might throw you a bone. I am sure there is a reason they haven't talked to you in three years. Sounds like the Post should get an Insider that the skins would actually let be an insider.

[Bzapf]

Wow. JLC is dumber than I thought. Anyone who knows NFL football should know this makes no sense.

[Thinking Skins]

As long as the Skins win football games, I don't care how much double talk Vinny does. Its not like he's being paid to be the pope. Get over it Jason, you're better than that!!!

Why are you blaming JLC for being lied to? Its his job to hunt out these rumors, and so he goes to the head man, Vinny, who tells him that they hadn't done anything about JT. He had a direct quote from Vinny. So I was ready to call Clayton's story BS. But then all of a sudden JT is on our team. And you think this is JLC's fault for believing Vinny? Or for getting mad at being lied to?

[SkinsOrlando]

JLC singing with sour grapes in his mouth.

[zoony]

This is one thing I don't really get about Vinny. You can deflect a question without answering it. Joe Gibbs made a living at it. Actually, most anyone who deals with the Press makes a living at it. Hell, most of us do it in our jobs every day.

Quick example of what Vinny could have said:

"Are you going to try to make a move for Jason Taylor?"

"Certainly when you lose a starter and a backup for the season on the same day, it causes you to take a hard look at that position and weigh your options. How do we feel about the guys who are here? How about depth? What options do we have available to us? Those are the kinds of questions we need to sit down with coaches and management to talk thru."

"But what about Jason Taylor? Are you going to make an offer for him or not?"

"Well right now, like I said, we have a lot of things going on, and quite frankly, it would be irresponsible of me to even comment on that"



There. Done. He didn't lie. Question is answered, but when he announces a trade 2 hours later, he's not accused of being a liar.

I don't get it :whoknows: Maybe Vinnie isn't a wordsmith. He seems more than articulate on Redskins.com videos though... so like I said, I don't get it.

[flexxskins]

IF he had mentioned any dealing, he would have had to deal with an onslaught of questions and calls from media, rather than focusing on the contract...Then why not just simply say "no comment"?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Why are you blaming JLC for being lied to? Its his job to hunt out these rumors, and so he goes to the head man, Vinny, who tells him that they hadn't done anything about JT. He had a direct quote from Vinny. So I was ready to call Clayton's story BS. But then all of a sudden JT is on our team. And you think this is JLC's fault for believing Vinny? Or for getting mad at being lied to?

When you're hunting for rumors, don't expect the GM to be forthcoming. That's either lazy (not going to someone who can actually tell you something off the record) or just plain dumb.

I don't blame JLC for being lied to, I blame him for being upset about it.

No GM in their right mind would come clean about an ONGOING NEGOTIATION!

[FedUpField]

"No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing."

Ability to do your JOB, Jason? Your job is to editorialize to the nth degree -- you write a BLOG. And you complain of credibilty?? You make quotes up constantly to substantiate your columns, you write with such simpleminded abandon that there's no reason for them to talk to you (as if it's your decision to not gain access to the FO!)

Please!

What have you done to dispel the rumors that you are and have been persona non grata in Ashburn? That your "sources" are US? That you're not a complete and utter hack who can't even spell check your own posts, let alone adhere to even the most basic tenets of any known style manual. If there is any justice, this entry should be your undoing -- but the complacent slacks who pitifully cut your checks can't even gin up to read your slop so the feeble moaning will continue, ceaselessly, til you give up and get out of town...

Grow up, fake journalist or go away.

- FUF

[SkinsHokieFan]

Why are you blaming JLC for being lied to? Its his job to hunt out these rumors, and so he goes to the head man, Vinny, who tells him that they hadn't done anything about JT. He had a direct quote from Vinny. So I was ready to call Clayton's story BS. But then all of a sudden JT is on our team. And you think this is JLC's fault for believing Vinny? Or for getting mad at being lied to?

It is standard operating procedure in this business

George McPhee of the Caps lies all the time before moves are made

JLC has to be able to see through the BS (generally with other sources telling him otherwise) and know its part of the game

This is quite stunning that JLC is griping about THIS after so many years of covering pro sports

[zoony]

oh, and by the way, grow up Jason. Seriously, this pettiness reflects very poorly on you as a person and as a man.

[Thinking Skins]

Wow, there is just some outright hatred for JLC here. I can understand when he comes up with his random sources. But this time he posted a story where he quoted Vinny saying that they had not had any talks about Taylor. And yal still blame him? That hurts his credentials as a reporter when he goes with a story and it winds up being not true. If I were him, I'd be pissed too.

Like he said, why did Vinny even answer the question then? Why not just say "no comment"? Why not say "we're going to do whats best to improve the team?" Why not say "We're exploring a number of options?"?

There are a million different things Vinny could have said to not be lying. But he outright lied, and the sad thing is the fans are saying in unison, well its the reporter's fault for believing somebody in the front office.

:doh:

[jpillian]

Why are you blaming JLC for being lied to? Its his job to hunt out these rumors, and so he goes to the head man, Vinny, who tells him that they hadn't done anything about JT. He had a direct quote from Vinny. So I was ready to call Clayton's story BS. But then all of a sudden JT is on our team. And you think this is JLC's fault for believing Vinny? Or for getting mad at being lied to?

I agree with you, man. I think Vinny's choice of words in this matter was poor. He could have: 1) avoided the media altogether; or 2) offered some neutral comments. His statements were in fact lies, pretty simple.

I'm not sure of any large organization that counsels its PR folks to lie to the press.

This in no way detracts from the fact that JLC is a whiney beeyotch. However, I do think Vinny needs to work on his "non-revealing" PR posture. Gibbs always did this very well. Outright lying to the press is not the way it should be done.

[MartinC]

The fact that the Shockey trade happened later gives cresenence to the rumors that there was a three-way trade in the works, which means that Skins weren't the only ones interested.
Jason

Aparently the Eagles were also bidding right up to the last moments and were offered the same deal we were - a 2nd and 5th or 6th - but balked at the price.

You can be pretty sure Parcells told the Eagles we were also bidding to drive the price up but clearly no need for Vinny to confirm it via the press in the middle of a negotiation.

I do think he could have avoided an outright lie but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Bottom line its Vinny's job to do what is in the best interests of the Redskins not the press.

[SkinsGuy]

Why are you blaming JLC for being lied to? Its his job to hunt out these rumors, and so he goes to the head man, Vinny, who tells him that they hadn't done anything about JT. He had a direct quote from Vinny. So I was ready to call Clayton's story BS. But then all of a sudden JT is on our team. And you think this is JLC's fault for believing Vinny? Or for getting mad at being lied to?


No it is b/c JLC knows this is normal procedure for a front office in the NFL.

Just like tlling little white lies before the draft.

Yet he feels the need to write a PoS blog pretending he is all <gasp!> shocked and amazed he was led astray. Just so he could use it as an excuse to bash the team some more.

JLC is the one who is LYING! Lying that he doesn't know that this is how teams work.

[nace14]

god i hate JLC!!!!!!!
does he not understand that vinny COULDN'T say anything about the trade?!?!
what does he expect:

JLC: So Vinny, any truth to the taylor rumors?
Vinny: Well actually Jason, I've been on the phone all afternoon with Bill. He wants a 2nd and 4th round pick and we are willing to give up a 1st rounder but we are going to try to negotiate him down a little bit...

Hey JLC...NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU ENOUGH TO GIVE YOU INSIDER INFORMATION, so stop thinking that you are entitled to it instead of doing your job! if you want to call yourself an insider, then work for the information, don't just sit in the press room and regurgitate what the team tells you.

[Thinking Skins]

This is one thing I don't really get about Vinny. You can deflect a question without answering it. Joe Gibbs made a living at it. Actually, most anyone who deals with the Press makes a living at it. Hell, most of us do it in our jobs every day.

Quick example of what Vinny could have said:

&quot;Are you going to try to make a move for Jason Taylor?&quot;

&quot;Certainly when you lose a starter and a backup for the season on the same day, it causes you to take a hard look at that position and weigh your options. How do we feel about the guys who are here? How about depth? What options do we have available to us? Those are the kinds of questions we need to sit down with coaches and management to talk thru.&quot;

&quot;But what about Jason Taylor? Are you going to make an offer for him or not?&quot;

&quot;Well right now, like I said, we have a lot of things going on, and quite frankly, it would be irresponsible of me to even comment on that&quot;



There. Done. He didn't lie. Question is answered, but when he announces a trade 2 hours later, he's not accused of being a liar.

I don't get it :whoknows: Maybe Vinnie isn't a wordsmith. He seems more than articulate on Redskins.com videos though... so like I said, I don't get it.

at least I'm not the only one who sees a problem with what Vinny said.

[TK]

F.Y.I.


'No comment' actually means 'YES'.


It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

[zoony]

at least I'm not the only one who sees a problem with what Vinny said.


While I certainly don't get what Vinny said, it certainly doesn't excuse the behavior of JLC. He's a petty child. I cannot imagine having to work with someone as unprofessional as him on a daily basis.

It's no wonder that he's alienated everyone at Redskins Park and most in the press box. Does it ever occur to him that he might not need to kiss FO-ass, but that a little bit of courtesy and professionalism on his part might allow him to perform his job better? No... it doesn't. Because JLC isn't in this to do his job and cover the team to the best of his ability... he's in it to stroke his own ego and pride.

[flexxskins]

[QUOTE]You know, the last thing Vinny wants is for everyone and their brother to know that they are interested in trading for a player, because another team could come in and either up the price for a player or take the player themselves?Then he could have just simply said "no comment".

It's a shorter answer and much more credible.



This is whiny posturing by JLC. The Skins under Snyder have always played things close to the vest. This is nothing new. I understand why JLC is frustrated, because his job depends on hearing about those little nuggets, but that's the way of things.I totally agree with this comment.

Writing up an article in the Post about Vinny's comments was hardly necessary.

[SkinsGuy]

This is one thing I don't really get about Vinny. You can deflect a question without answering it. Joe Gibbs made a living at it. Actually, most anyone who deals with the Press makes a living at it. Hell, most of us do it in our jobs every day.

Quick example of what Vinny could have said:

"Are you going to try to make a move for Jason Taylor?"

"Certainly when you lose a starter and a backup for the season on the same day, it causes you to take a hard look at that position and weigh your options. How do we feel about the guys who are here? How about depth? What options do we have available to us? Those are the kinds of questions we need to sit down with coaches and management to talk thru."

"But what about Jason Taylor? Are you going to make an offer for him or not?"

"Well right now, like I said, we have a lot of things going on, and quite frankly, it would be irresponsible of me to even comment on that"



There. Done. He didn't lie. Question is answered, but when he announces a trade 2 hours later, he's not accused of being a liar.

I don't get it :whoknows: Maybe Vinnie isn't a wordsmith. He seems more than articulate on Redskins.com videos though... so like I said, I don't get it.

B/c you darn well know that kind of crapola answer would've just confirmed it for the press. Not sent them away.

Neither Cerrato or Snyder have any reason to show any civility to the press, least of all JLC or the WP.

[MartinC]

[QUOTE=jpillian]

I'm not sure of any large organization that counsels its PR folks to lie to the press.

QUOTE]

I have a background in Marketing and PR and now work at a reasonably senior level in sales.Trust me LOTS of large organisations put out information all the time which is at best less than accurate and at worst is downright untruthful. They act in what they see as their own best interests and if that means lieing from time to time then thats what they do.

Personally I have always avoided telling lies. I may not give all the information I have but I will never tell an outright lie but thats just my personal value code.

[bobzmuda]

JLC has admitted that lying and deception is part of the game.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/01/04/DI2008010403048.html

=========
Adams, Va.: Is there anyway they try to go after the Pats' Scott Pioloi?

Jason La Canfora: If Snyder told a boldface lie Tuesday about his desire for a GM, then no. And you know what, if actually did an about face and landed a Pioli he would get lauded by everyone.

That's part of the business and deception is part of his job.
=========

I don't get why he's so up in arms about it for this instance.

[Thinking Skins]

No it is b/c JLC knows this is normal procedure for a front office in the NFL.

Just like tlling little white lies before the draft.

Yet he feels the need to write a PoS blog pretending he is all &lt;gasp!&gt; shocked and amazed he was led astray. Just so he could use it as an excuse to bash the team some more.

JLC is the one who is LYING! Lying that he doesn't know that this is how teams work.

But JLC admitted that others do it much better. A simple "No comment" woulda been fine. But Vinny didn't do that. he chose to outright lie. A lie is different from a no comment. A lie is the type of thing that makes your boss come to you and question why there's a quote in the paper saying that "We're not going after Jason Taylor" when Jason Taylor is now a member of the Washington Redskins.

I'm not too religious a guy, but I don't like being outright lied to. Gibbs wouldn't have done that.

[Bzapf]

F.Y.I.


'No comment' actually means 'YES'.


It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

Exactly

[TheLongshot]

at least I'm not the only one who sees a problem with what Vinny said.

It doesn't mean that that would have been any more informative.

To be honest, Vinny doesn't come off as a master speaker and isn't really used to being up front and center. I can understand a relatively minor gaffe like that in the heat of the moment.

I wonder sometimes why JLC even bothers, tho. Everyone and their brother knows you aren't going to get the information like that from a GM unless they make a mistake. Denying it or no comment is almost the same thing. Considering that I've seen other FO guys do the same thing. (Deny until it actually happens) It isn't like Vinny is the only guy guilty of that.

BTW, apparently Philly was also interested in Taylor.

Jason

[zoony]

B/c you darn well know that kind of crapola answer would've just confirmed it for the press. Not sent them away.

Neither Cerrato or Snyder have any reason to show any civility to the press, least of all JLC or the WP.


Gibbs did it for years. Nobody in the press was any the wiser.

And just about anyone who deals with the press and/or is in politics is able to go entire careers dealing with FAR MORE sensitive matters than a silly football trade without ever being accused of outright lying. It's not rocket science.

If you don't like that answer, think up your own... one that answers the question but doesn't. It's fun. And it's media relations 101. Actually, I take that back. 101 would imply it's a college course. It's not even that complicated.

[corrupt3d]

JLC: "Are you looking to trade for Jason Taylor?"

VC: "No comment"


Eagles and Giants call Miami and raise the price for us.

[zoony]

Personally I have always avoided telling lies. I may not give all the information I have but I will never tell an outright lie but thats just my personal value code.


EXACTLY the way I see it.

....

[Thinking Skins]

While I certainly don't get what Vinny said, it certainly doesn't excuse the behavior of JLC. He's a petty child. I cannot imagine having to work with someone as unprofessional as him on a daily basis.

It's no wonder that he's alienated everyone at Redskins Park and most in the press box. Does it ever occur to him that he might not need to kiss FO-ass, but that a little bit of courtesy and professionalism on his part might allow him to perform his job better? No... it doesn't. Because JLC isn't in this to do his job and cover the team to the best of his ability... he's in it to stroke his own ego and pride.

I'm not the biggest fan of JLC, and I've had my gripes with him in the past, but I can understand where he's coming from on this one.

Now there are those that say that the actions of JLC over his tenure here in DC led to him being lied to, in which case I can understand more of Vinny's side of this. But I can't just outright excuse Vinny for lying to JLC because what he just did is lied to the fans.

But what the heck, its spilled milk now.

[Timmy Smith]

Haha, JLC is such a pathetic excuse for a reporter. He expects to be spoon-fed every tidbit of information. How naive and gullible can you get?

[zoony]

Here's another answer he could have given:

"Are you going to trade for Taylor?"

"We like who we have just fine"

Technically not a lie at all. And true. Even when he comes back to tell everyone a trade happened.

Like I said, make up your own. It's fun. :)

[SkinsGuy]

But JLC admitted that others do it much better. A simple "No comment" woulda been fine. But Vinny didn't do that. he chose to outright lie. A lie is different from a no comment. A lie is the type of thing that makes your boss come to you and question why there's a quote in the paper saying that "We're not going after Jason Taylor" when Jason Taylor is now a member of the Washington Redskins.

I'm not too religious a guy, but I don't like being outright lied to. Gibbs wouldn't have done that.

"No Comment" would've just confirmed the rumors for jackels like JLC, and you know it.

Stop wasing our time TS. This has nothing to do with Cerrato lying. This has to do with you don't like the Taylor trade, and this is another way for you to bash the team for it. :rolleyes:

Get over it. He is on the team, and there is nothing you can do about it, short of walking away from the Redskins. :)

[Flycoach]

I have no problem with it. With teams throwing out allegations of tampering left and right, why take a chance?

[zoony]

I'm not the biggest fan of JLC, and I've had my gripes with him in the past, but I can understand where he's coming from on this one.


I can't. Trust me, JLC doesn't believe his own bull**** on this one. He saw an opportunity to stand on his soap box and push his agenda, so he didn't hesistate to take the opportunity. It's really the only one he's had in a long time. He was probably getting impatient.

Make no mistake though, he knows how the game is played. This is just an ego trip for him.

[McD5]

So what does this quote mean?


I am 100% percent positive that Jason Taylor will play here more than one season.

[jpillian]

I have a background in Marketing and PR and now work at a reasonably senior level in sales.Trust me LOTS of large organisations put out information all the time which is at best less than accurate and at worst is downright untruthful. They act in what they see as their own best interests and if that means lieing from time to time then thats what they do.

Personally I have always avoided telling lies. I may not give all the information I have but I will never tell an outright lie but thats just my personal value code.

I won't get into a credentials battle with you; I certainly agree that particularly in sales things can get a bit "murky."

But in my opinion, outright lying is as frowned upon in the corporate setting as it is in a personal setting. It has a marked effect on future sales, your organizations goodwill, and can definitely result in unwanted liability. None of this is rocket science. (And none of this really applies in this situation except perhaps the goodwill bit.)

Vinny's statements were especially dumb because he contradicted himiself in such a short time span.

All that being said, again -- it's not that big a deal to me. I think JLC is blowing it out of proportion. However, if nit picking is to be done :silly: I'll have to come down on JLC's side, at least in principle, on this incident.

And of course, considering my extremely high opinion of Jason Taylor and the effect he'll have on our D, Vinny's getting this trade done certainly makes his manner of communicating with the media yesterday a very, very minor point to me.

[Larry Brown #43]

F.Y.I.


'No comment' actually means 'YES'.




I agree with this.

Did you kill your wife?

"No comment."

How does that sound? :)

[D-Day]

Maybe Vinny straight lied to him because he can't stand him. All crap he has written about the FO and Vinny personally I can't blame him.

[zoony]

I won't get into a credentials battle with you; I certainly agree that particularly in sales things can get a bit "murky."

But in my opinion, outright lying is as frowned upon in the corporate setting as it is in a personal setting. It has a marked effect on future sales, your organizations goodwill, and can definitely result in unwanted liability. None of this is rocket science.

Vinny's statements were especially dumb because he contradicted himiself in such a short time span.

All that being said, again -- it's not that big a deal to me. I think JLC is blowing it out of proportion.


Yup... all except the part of "siding with JLC". :)

[TheLongshot]

I can't. Trust me, JLC doesn't believe his own bull**** on this one. He saw an opportunity to stand on his soap box and push his agenda, so he didn't hesistate to take the opportunity. It's really the only one he's had in a long time. He was probably getting impatient.

Make no mistake though, he knows how the game is played. This is just an ego trip for him.

Course, it doesn't exactly encourage Vinny to be more forthcomming by saying such things in public. As I said, I understand the frustration, but saying so in a public forum doesn't exactly earn him brownie points at Redskins Park.

And let's face it, he needs as many as he can get.

Jason

[SkinsGuy]

Gibbs did it for years. Nobody in the press was any the wiser.

And just about anyone who deals with the press and/or is in politics is able to go entire careers dealing with FAR MORE sensitive matters than a silly football trade without ever being accused of outright lying. It's not rocket science.

If you don't like that answer, think up your own... one that answers the question but doesn't. It's fun. And it's media relations 101. Actually, I take that back. 101 would imply it's a college course. It's not even that complicated.

My, what a bunch of saints we have on this board all of the sudden. :rolleyes:

It seems like most of the folks who have a problem with Cerrato "lying" are also ones who had a problem with the trade itself.

I guess any way to take a jab at the team when you aren't happy with them.

As I said, JLC is the liar. He knows this is how teams work (he admitted it as you can see in the post above), yet bashes Cerrato for doing his job.

And folks defend him b/c they didn't like the Taylor trade.

Nice. :doh:

[bobzmuda]

Hell, it's even in the model rules of ethics for lawyers that, in so many words, lying is okay in negotiations.

It's one thing to lie regarding an ongoing deal or negotiation, which JLC admits is part of the job.

[TK]

I agree with this.

Did you kill your wife?

"No comment."

How does that sound? :)
You get me a wav file of that Q & A with O.J. Simpson & I'll tell you exactly how that one sounds.:cool:

[zoony]

Course, it doesn't exactly encourage Vinny to be more forthcomming by saying such things in public. As I said, I understand the frustration, but saying so in a public forum doesn't exactly earn him brownie points at Redskins Park.

And let's face it, he needs as many as he can get.

Jason


exactly. Like I said, JLC isn't in this to do the best job he can to bring us coverage. He's in it for his own ego. Because anyone with 1/2 a brain (and JLC is smart) knows you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Byner21]

I can't say I blame JLC here. I mean what more can we go on than Vinny's word? The dude straight lied to the press yesterday.

I agree. Cerrato simply could have sidestepped it without outright lying. "We're looking into all scenarios..." etc.

[flexxskins]

I agree. Cerrato simply could have sidestepped it without outright lying. "We're looking into all scenarios..." etc.Bingo.

The write up was too much though.

[Stadium-Armory]

The merits of the article aside, I think its not really news-worthy, and just comes off as having an axe to grind.

[thesubmittedone]

Oh boo friggin hoo.

Could it have been that Vinny didn't want any of the other NFC East teams to have any idea that we were in talks about the trade when Bill Parcells had told Vinny all the other NFC East teams called him today inquiring about JT?

You know they'd try their best to hike up the price if they knew we were serious. Who knows what goes on!

[Byner21]

I have no problem with it. With teams throwing out allegations of tampering left and right, why take a chance?

But they were asking about any discussions with the Dolphins.

Tampering's not an issue when you're dealing with another team's front office (as opposed to a player or agent).

[NomadicSkinFan]

Horrible job by JLC. How nit-picky can you get???

If he really wants our front office showing all of their cards WHILE A NEGOTIATION IS ONGOING, then he's in the wrong line of business.

Go blog about international soccer or your kid, we don't care to hear how you dislike business as usual moves by a front office.

Next week's blog: Zorn is deceptive by not making his play-calls public.

Idiot.

No doubt. Journalists are what tattle tales become when they grow up (just kidding.) They make their bread and reputation by being the first to blab big news. So JLC wants to cry because Vinny didn't want to possibly give away their moves and have an NFC East opponent jump into the fray? I guess next year he'll cry when the Redskins don't dilvulge their draft board to him prior to the draft.

[TK]

JLC's crying here is akin to Pastabelly's bitching when he was scooped by Gibbs' return.

[LadySkinsFan]

One does not open one's hand until bird is firmly caught, in case bird flies away.

He's paid not to confirm details until it's a done deal. Why let other teams know what you are doing?

Back to our regularly scheduled training camp!!:cheers:

[McMetal]

Whiny, immature crybaby. Maske never took the low road like this...what a joke.

Smart move as a reporter continuing to burn bridges instead of trying to build them back up again.

There is no question in my mind I could do a better job than JLC.

[carter23]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/


The Immaculate Deception

There is a reason the media schlubs around here have a hard time believing a lot of what comes out of Vinny Cerrato's mouth, and a reason he has credibility issues. Yesterday was a prime example, though hardly unprecedented in these parts. Cerrato repeatedly denied the team was interested in Jason Taylor to the local media (via text, phone call, and then in front of the camera at a press conference), from about 2 pm right up until he tripped over his own feet entering the media room to announce the trade.

Then today in multiple interviews, with ESPN and Sports Illustrated, he implicitly concedes that he was lying through his teeth to every media entity that covers the Redskins on a daily basis. Yet somehow he still wonders why people don't take him seriously? (This is also the guy who claims the team misquoted him in its own press release in 2005. I'll never quite fathom that one.

Here's what Cerrato said about the Jason Taylor trade talks on ESPN radio this morning:

"We went out to practice at 3:00, and I talked to Bill Parcells probably like three times on the practice field, back and forth. We went and discussed some different terms, we came in after practice, talked to 3 or 4 of the veterans players, and asked them what they thought, what type of guy and everything, they said great guy. Everything was positive. Called Parcells back around 6:15 and told them, we'll do the deal. We faxed papers back and forth, got Jason Taylor on the phone and we were done."

Peter King of SI posted today that Cerrato told him he called Parcells at 3:10 pm yesterday:
"I'd called Bill a couple of months ago, I guess, like a lot of other teams did, doing their due diligence, asking him what he was interested in for Taylor,'' Cerrato said. "But nothing ever came of it. I didn't talk to him again about it 'til this afternoon. Then, during the afternoon practice, I'd say I talked to Bill three times about the terms, trying to work something out.''

But yesterday, minutes after the afternoon practice was over, here is what Cerrato said to the local media, repeatedly: "We haven't talked to anybody yet on anything." He then denied, again, any attempts to land Taylor to representatives of virtually every media entity that approached him at Redskins Park.

Now, is lying to the media anything new? Nah. And hey, it's his prerogative I suppose. But most people are more astute that this, maybe find a way to cover their tracks a little bit better. And, more to the point, most pros in the sports business learned long ago how to say - "No comment," or "Hey, we're working on things to make our team better and we'll let you know if we complete something." It's pretty easy to send a signal without destroying what was left of your credibility with the people who cover you only hours into the first day of your first training camp as the head of the Redskins' front office (with that fancy executive vice president title an all)

No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.

[Larry Brown #43]

Here's another answer he could have given:

"Are you going to trade for Taylor?"

"We like who we have just fine"

Technically not a lie at all. And true. Even when he comes back to tell everyone a trade happened.



But you have to remember, professional journalists are savvy and can spot a non-denial denial from three miles away. So they ask follow-up questions. And more follow-up questions. Any response that isn't a flat denial or flat affirmative leads to another question. Their goal is to keep asking questions until you break down and say something you regret saying.

If Vinnie had responded by saying, "We like who we have just fine," I can assure you that would have led to a follow-up question. There's really no easy way out.

Don't get me wrong...I understand the concept of a non-denial denial, but there are times when the media simply won't buy it...and when your starting DE is pronounced "done for the season," I'd say it's one of those times.

[carter23]

JLC is getting killed in the comment section by the way

[herb mul-key]

This is one thing I don't really get about Vinny. You can deflect a question without answering it. Joe Gibbs made a living at it. Actually, most anyone who deals with the Press makes a living at it. Hell, most of us do it in our jobs every day.

Quick example of what Vinny could have said:

"Are you going to try to make a move for Jason Taylor?"

"Certainly when you lose a starter and a backup for the season on the same day, it causes you to take a hard look at that position and weigh your options. How do we feel about the guys who are here? How about depth? What options do we have available to us? Those are the kinds of questions we need to sit down with coaches and management to talk thru."

"But what about Jason Taylor? Are you going to make an offer for him or not?"

"Well right now, like I said, we have a lot of things going on, and quite frankly, it would be irresponsible of me to even comment on that"



There. Done. He didn't lie. Question is answered, but when he announces a trade 2 hours later, he's not accused of being a liar.

I don't get it :whoknows: Maybe Vinnie isn't a wordsmith. He seems more than articulate on Redskins.com videos though... so like I said, I don't get it.


Bingo...QFT.....Vinnie's inexperience as the go to guy and the anxiety of the moment whatever...Zoony's take is obviously the absolute professional way to handle it...and JLC...it's never going to get better by doing a hatchet job like that! Do you think there is tension...? I would like to see a wrastleing match! Vinnie vs JLC :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Cpt.Chaos47]

The media and JLC especially needs to quit thinking that their asses are made of Gold and everyone should line up to kiss it. They already know, no team will come out and say " yeah, we're trying to trade for this guy". It would be stupid for the team to do so. I don't know why the media thinks teams should check in with them before a deal is done and with all the tampering crap thats been going on its not worth risk talking about a trade to anyone, but the team you are dealing with.

[Bzapf]

On Washington Post live all 3 writers agreed that Vinny was just looking out for his teams best interest and its just part of the job. The Caps Insider says its happens all the time and its just part of the buisness. No Wash Post guys backed JLC like they usually do.

[Larry Brown #43]

Updated: March 4, 2008, 4:21 PM ET

Dolphins executive vice president of football operations Bill Parcells told ESPN's Chris Mortensen on Sunday that defensive end Jason Taylor will be playing for Miami in 2008 unless he chooses to retire.

Well whaddya know! An outright lie? :laugh:

[AzSkinsFan63]

Waaaah!!!!! this writer is a panty waste

[bedlamVR]

But you have to remember, professional journalists are savvy and can spot a non-denial denial from three miles away. So they ask follow-up questions. And more follow-up questions. Any response that isn't a flat denial or flat affirmative leads to another question. Their goal is to keep asking questions until you break down and say something you regret saying.

If Vinnie had responded by saying. "We like who we have just fine," I can assure you that would have led to a follow-up question. There's really no easy way out.


Exactly I think JLC is whinning because he missed a scoop and venting his anger in column inches ...

I think Zoony and Thinking skins are being naive ... Actually what Zoony suggested to the question could be constituted tampering, in todays climate, when he said yes he was considering Jason Taylor . As of 6.00pm last night he was not a free agent and was a Miami Dolphin .....

Also other NFCE east teams were interested in Taylor they must of known that as soon as Daniels went down the Skins would be desperate so a deal had to be made quickly if they caught wind they were at an advanced stage they would have ramped the priece up super quick...

[TheDoyler23]

That's a park of his job. What a whiner.

[Burgundy Burner]

JLC, since you read this board...

Get over yourself. There is this rule in the NFL - it involves tampering and it is very serious. Perhaps this is a reason why Vinny "lied" to you. Did Mommy forget to pack your lunch today?

JLC, I'd be careful with your criticims of the Redskins. We have some very talented graphic artists at ES and they could take your mug and have a lot of fun with it. We also have a talented animation expert who could make you the feature of a cartoon. :laugh:

Have a good day JLC. And stop the whining.

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

perhaps they dont give a shiet what you mediots think. ahhh hahaha

[RedskinDan0557]

Why the hell would he tell the truth in this regard? Other NFC east teams were jockeying just to prevent us from getting him.

The WP sports dept is run by a bunch of nimrods.

[Thinking Skins]

"No Comment" would've just confirmed the rumors for jackels like JLC, and you know it.

Stop wasing our time TS. This has nothing to do with Cerrato lying. This has to do with you don't like the Taylor trade, and this is another way for you to bash the team for it. :rolleyes:

Get over it. He is on the team, and there is nothing you can do about it, short of walking away from the Redskins. :)


http://yaflamingalah.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/yawn.jpg

you finished yet?

I've stated my opinions about the trade in several other threads. In this particular thread, I made (what I think to be) logical comments about why I can understand where JLC is coming from. If you have comments on that, then please comment on what I've said. But don't make stupid assumptions about what you think I'm trying to do, its just makes you look bad.

[RedskinDan0557]

you finished yet?

I've stated my opinions about the trade in several other threads. In this particular thread, I made (what I think to be) logical comments about why I can understand where JLC is coming from. If you have comments on that, then please comment on what I've said. But don't make stupid assumptions about what you think I'm trying to do, its just makes you look bad.

If you think there is anything logical about JLC's little tirade then you are as big a tool as he is.

[SkinsGuy]

http://yaflamingalah.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/yawn.jpg

you finished yet?

I've stated my opinions about the trade in several other threads. In this particular thread, I made (what I think to be) logical comments about why I can understand where JLC is coming from. If you have comments on that, then please comment on what I've said. But don't make stupid assumptions about what you think I'm trying to do, its just makes you look bad.

You know, we have a yawn smilie:

:yawnee:

See? :)

And it is an easy assumption to make.

What do you care whether Cerrato lies to an assclown like JLC? Unless you didn't like what he was being deceptive about.

In fact, I'll be assumptive again. :) If you had liked the trade, you wouldn't be on this thread all high and mighty about how Cerrato does business.

The only one who is looking bad is YOU, b/c you aren't fooling anyone. :)

[Monk4thaHALL]

that blog article was a waste of time.

[skinfan2k]

Why the **** would Vinny play his cards to the media?

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I could be wrong here but I thought vinny is suppose to lie to the media. If word got out there that the skins were trying to get Jason Taylor don't you think other teams would have tried to work the phones and try to get a deal done too? Good job Vinny

[ouvan59]

Good for Vinny!!!!

If he had come out and said that they were talking to people and the trade price had subsequently been driven up then JLC would be lambasting him just the same.

Now go write a piece about how the Saints are so smart for trading for Jeremy Shockey.

[MustangSteve]

That man got us who we needed so screw Peter King and anyone else who doesnt like the fact we get the players we need!

[SkinsGuy]

That man got us who we needed so screw Peter King and anyone else who doesnt like the fact we get the players we need!

Actually, Peter King liked the trade. :)

Which is actually worrisome. :paranoid:

[bubba9497]

the "truth" rears it's ugly head


JLC is jealous :laugh:





* One last Redskins-related note: Much is being made (as it should be) about Vinny Cerrato fibbing to the D.C. media, something he revealed in interviews with Sports Illustrated and ESPN Radio last night and this morning. It is the worst possible start for Cerrato as the Redskins' front office grand poo-bah. Those at the Park regularly always knew Vinny favored the national guys more than the local guys so he could almost point to the TV or magazine and take credit for leaking that story. But it's time for Vinny and the entire organization to be more up front, tell reporters off the record what's going on as long as they don't print it or simply say 'no comment' until something's resolved.

http://www.washtimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2008/Jul/21/comparing-trades/

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

Who cares? It's standard procedure to deny being in trade talks during the actual talks.

[SkinsGuy]

the "truth" rears it's ugly head


JLC is jealous :laugh:




http://www.washtimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2008/Jul/21/comparing-trades/


The poor babies. :laugh:

Maybe if they treat the team's front office with more respect, they'll get it in return.

[TomE]

The only one who is looking bad is YOU, b/c you aren't fooling anyone. :)

:laugh:

Yeah, he has been on that soapbox quite a bit, hasn't he.

But, anyhoo, LaCan does come off a bit whiney with his comments. Wasn't it he that ticked-off Gibbs about this time last year?

While Cerrato definitely needs to work on his spinsmanship, it would prudent for LaCan to quit burning bridges too.

I suspect that Gibbs is more inclined to call in the Corps of Engineers than the current regime.

[SoCalSkins]

Vinny also denied any interest in Favre on Mike and Mike. Frost better start looking for a new number to wear for the rest of camp.

[Riggodrill44]

I can't say I blame JLC here. I mean what more can we go on than Vinny's word? The dude straight lied to the press yesterday.


Lets say Vinnie tells the truth and other teams in our division tries to stick it to us and ups the ante for Taylor.Would you care then?

[Buford]

Every time the guy blogs something that people here get in a tizzy about. Those threads get a ton of posts, and I'm sure the Post blog gets a ton of hits.

Looks like they won again.

[pvkeeper19]

Cerrato outright lied to the press multiple times yesterday. Reporters rely on the people they're interviewing to provide honest answers, or at least give a "no comment" type of answer.

I have no respect for a liar. I wouldn't tolerate someone telling me lies, especially when they're obvious. It's an insult to a person's intelligence.

[dent19]

if your mad that they didn't show their hand you should get over it. they shouldve talked to them early as everyone did. they shouldve had terms ready in case of an emergency.
Im not a big fan of the FO and dont think Vinny should have more than an equipment job (and wouldnt trust him with my gear)
but im glad he played this one this way....

[eljeasel]

F the Media. If they dont trust the source, dont print it.

"An unnamed source said..." Now thats reliable :jerk:

[Zazzaro703]

This is just bitter writing. As it was teams in our division figured we would make a play for Taylor and also made bids. Announcing to the world we are trying to trade for him would have just made things worse.

[DieselPwr44]

Cerrato outright lied to the press multiple times yesterday. Reporters rely on the people they're interviewing to provide honest answers, or at least give a "no comment" type of answer.

I have no respect for a liar. I wouldn't tolerate someone telling me lies, especially when they're obvious. It's an insult to a person's intelligence.
I'm sure the sports world in general is glad you're not a GM.

No GM worth his salt goes blabbing to the press.

Did you want the Skins to get fined for tampering?

Do you want the Skins blowing future deals with teams for the sake of truth??

Get out from behind the pulpit please..........

[paintrain]

JLC needs to shed his perennial case of bitchassness.. Quit whining and complaining like a little girl.. Vinny doesn't owe you the scoop.. Sure he could have done it a different way, but you don't devote a blog entry to it unless you are just a bitter *****.. Get over it.

[Dan T.]

The poor babies. :laugh:

Maybe if they treat the team's front office with more respect, they'll get it in return.

That's a 2-way street. Both sides have been engaged in this petty,ongoing feud for several years now. It's gotten tiresome.

[awolfinwater]

I can't say I blame JLC here. I mean what more can we go on than Vinny's word? The dude straight lied to the press yesterday.

Thinking Skins, you gotta think a little harder before dropping a comment like that. By what rule does a GM have to be honest with the press? Matter of fact, why should a GM even deal with the press unless he wants to release a statement?

The role of GM is to be a master poker player making bets to make our team better while never revealing his hand. I applaud VC and his dealings with JLC. JLC needs to understand the big picture, understand his role, and obtain sources to gain insight for his stories. I am dumbfounded that JLC has not built a strong relationship with any members of the team in order to gain an inside informant.

The fact that JLC is upset that a GM lied goes to show how JLC is narrow-minded. Fire him and hire someone with some passion for the skins.

[Dan T.]

Fire him and hire someone with some passion for the skins.


:laugh:

[ouvan59]

I applaud VC and his dealings with JLC. JLC needs to understand the big picture, understand his role, and obtain sources to gain insight for his stories. I am dumbfounded that JLC has not built a strong relationship with any members of the team in order to gain an inside informant.

The fact that JLC is upset that a GM lied goes to show how JLC is narrow-minded. Fire him and hire someone with some passion for the skins.

I don't think Vinny lied directly to JLC because that would mean that JLC actually talked to him directly which he didn't. JLC got his quotes from the TV interviews.

[1972FAN]

Here's a thought, maybe he doesn't trust the media?

[Hubbs]

I normally don't agree with the JLC-bashing that goes on here, but this is too much for me. Every member of every football team lies to the media at some point. Players do it. Coaches do it a lot. The front office does it even more. To make a big deal out of something like this is a complete joke.

[Voice_of_Reason]

My turn. FULL DISCLOSURE: I DON'T LIKE JLC AND I WOULDN'T HAVE READ IT UNLESS IT WAS POSTED HERE!

1. JLC - Grow up. I mean, this is the big leagues, son. Stop belly aching because you have no contacts.
2. JLC says that he hasn't spoken to Vinny since 2005. Well, isn't that what he's getting paid to do? Being the "redskins insider?" Isn't he supposed to have "inside sources" from the team? Maybe if he wasn't such a complete prick, the somebody would grant him inside information. As it is, he's restricted to "reporting" the press releases because nobody will talk to him.
3. I am not sure which is more accurate: JLC hasn't talked to Vinny, or Vinny hasn't talked to JLC... Things that make you go hmmmm.
4. If Vinny lying lowered the price from a 2 and a 5 to a 2 and a 6, then that's how the game is played.
5. Gibbs would have absolutely done the same thing. Except every body would laud it as a Savey Move.
6. "Talking around the subject" has it's consequences. Namely, the follow up question. Example:
Media dude: "Are you in discussions to trade for JT?"
Vinny: "We like who we have."
Media dude: "I'm sure you like who you have, but are you interested in adding somebody else, aka Jason Taylor?"
Vinny: "We are exploring all our options."
Media dude: "Does one of those options happen to be trading for JT?"
Vinny: I can't comment on that.
And ZING! The Media goes nuts with the "no comment" because, as everybody knows
7) NO COMMENT = YES.

So, kudos to Vinny. He got the guy, lied to the Media, who cares. Let's go play ball.

[bubba9497]

Here's a thought, maybe he doesn't trust the media?


What?!, the local media has been so kind with the Skins FO.

[Oldskool]

I'm not going to defend Vincenzo here (I just ate after all).

However this is a horrid piece by JLC who sounds like a jilted lover or a school girl that was not informed of a secret the rest of the clique new about.

[pvkeeper19]

I'm sure the sports world in general is glad you're not a GM.

No GM worth his salt goes blabbing to the press.

Did you want the Skins to get fined for tampering?

Do you want the Skins blowing future deals with teams for the sake of truth??

Get out from behind the pulpit please..........
You don't have to tell bald-faced lies to avoid blowing deals and having tampering charges filed.

And pardon me, but what in your infinite football wisdom qualifies you to make a statement about what a "good GM" is? Oh, that's right... absolutely ****ing nothing. What twisted world do you live in that you not only accept, but EXPECT to be lied to by prominent decision makers? If you think I'm unreasonable for wishing for a little integrity and accountability from a team I spend so much time and money cheering for, then I think you are a cynical bastard.

[HPSkins]

I mean seriously, if JLC cares at all for the 'Skins, why would he even want Cerrato being asked that question, at that time? JLC's post should have been "Who the f*** asks that question?
As far as I'm concerned, Cerrato's job is to play whatever poker NFL FO's play as best as possible.
Companies deceive their competition all the time. Lying about the dealings of a silly pro sports franchise is not equivalent lying to your children.
I'd lie my a** off (about football) if it brings a championship here.:dallasuck

[Voice_of_Reason]

I mean seriously, if JLC cares at all for the 'Skins, why would he even want Cerrato being asked that question, at that time? JLC's post should have been "Who the f*** asks that question?
As far as I'm concerned, Cerrato's job is to play whatever poker NFL FO's play as best as possible.
Companies deceive their competition all the time. Lying about the dealings of a silly pro sports franchise is not equivalent lying to your children.
I'd lie my a** off (about football) if it brings a championship here.:dallasuck

Welcome to the board. :)

[DieselPwr44]

If you think I'm unreasonable for wishing for a little integrity and accountability from a team I spend so much time and money cheering for, then I think you are a cynical bastard.

As long as that integrity and accountability is directed towards the team, in house, what do you care what they tell the media??

George Allen
Joe Gibbs
Bill Parcells
Bill Belichick
Lombardi
Ron Wolf
Beathard etc...

Wanted the press to know as little as possible as to what they were up to.

I guess as an idealist, you'd count them as ruthless liars too?

Wake up Alice.......

[pedigroove]

JLC is a retard for not reading between the lines. No one wants a tampering charge, so why would Cerrato talk about the trade? John Clayton never paid attention to what Cerrato said because he had insider info, which JLC didn't have and he's bitter about believing, and reporting on what Cerrato lied about. Fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me. Well, Cerrato obviously fooled JLC numerous times and he's never recovered.

[zoony]

meh, at the end of the day, we're all Redskins fans, and JLC is still a twit. No point in arguing this any further if you ask me.

...

[pvkeeper19]

As long as that integrity and accountability is directed towards the team, in house, what do you care what they tell the media??

George Allen
Joe Gibbs
Bill Parcells
Bill Belichick
Lombardi
Ron Wolf
Beathard etc...

Wanted the press to know as little as possible as to what they were up to.

I guess as an idealist, you'd count them as ruthless liars too?

Wake up Alice.......
Having been born in 1986, I am not very familiar with Allen and Lomabrdi's interactions with the media, so I cannot make a judgment. Same deal with Beathard; I was too young to fathom anything he said when he was with the Redskins, or to really care who he was in the first place. Similarly, I did not follow the Packers very closely, so I am only vaguely aware of Ron Wolf's work in Green Bay.

Belichick has been established as a dishonest character, and I have little respect for him as a person, and consequently, I don't care for his team, either.

As for Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcells, I cannot recall a single instance in which either of them ever, EVER told an outright lie to the media. Being guarded and not wanting to share vital information is one thing, but intentionally misleading the media (and therefore the fans) is something for which I have no tolerance. I was careful to make that distinction in my previous post, which you either did not read or chose to ignore.

[skinsince72]

Is that guy serious. A media whore whining for someone not telling the truth. look around dumb ***. You print half truthes all day long. So on a day like today, JLC decides to cover the BIG story. Vinny.


Did Vinny walk up to a cameraman and say, "hey, we are not talking to the Dophins." I doubt it. It was a mediot asking questions to a informal GM about a subject that many teams were interested in. The article should have been titled "Vinny played the game and beat out 3 other teams that wanted Taylor".

Instead, he whines and cries about Vinny not playing nice. Then ends it by saying he's had a great couple years when Vinny won't talk to him. It reminds of a 2 year old.

Hey La Confora, wherever you got your journalism degree, they owe you a lot of money, because you didn't get anything in return.

[Thinking Skins]

meh, at the end of the day, we're all Redskins fans, and JLC is still a twit. No point in arguing this any further if you ask me.

...


:cheers:

[Stormy]

Horrible job by JLC. How nit-picky can you get???

If he really wants our front office showing all of their cards WHILE A NEGOTIATION IS ONGOING, then he's in the wrong line of business.

Go blog about international soccer or your kid, we don't care to hear how you dislike business as usual moves by a front office.

Next week's blog: Zorn is deceptive by not making his play-calls public.

Idiot.

:laugh: Exactly.

[spjunkies]

I have NEVER seen a reporter ***** and moan as this guy does.

Can the Post please get someone else for this job.

[Park City Skins]

No surprises on this end, of course. I learned my lesson long ago and went roughly three years without talking to the guy, from the 2005 draft until the 2008 draft, and it had no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/jayman42/ostrich_head_sand.jpg

[Hiro]

I can't say I blame JLC here. I mean what more can we go on than Vinny's word? The dude straight lied to the press yesterday.
So what do you expect Vinny to do? Come right out and admit that "Yes, we're trying to trade for Jason Taylor. Stand by!" Despite that we sorely want to know every little thing that's going on behind closed doors, the fact of the matter is there are some things the Front Office isn't ready to come out and admit yet at certain times, and when the press brings them up, the only thing they can do is basically deny what happens, just in case anything goes wrong.

Say if Vinny did admit they were talking to Miami about trading for Taylor before the trade went through, then all of a sudden a team like Green Bay or New York steps forward with an even better trade offer and our offer gets denied? Do you know how bad the FO would look and what kind of a publicity nightmare it would be. "Redskins FO beaten to the punch on acquiring All-Pro DE". If that was the case, JLC instead would be complaining in this blog entry about how passive our FO was when trying to address a major major need.

[Larry]

Hey, if the guy wanted The Truth, and if he doesn't trust Vinnie's credability, why didn't he pick up the phone and call Parcells?

I'm certain Parcells would have given him an accurate description of every offer he'd had, who made it, when, and what they offered, since every GM in the NFL is so much more honest and open than Vinnie is.

(Imagining Parcell's reaction if this guy had actually made it past his secretary and asked that question.)

[Big Ted]

JLC sounds like a sissy in that article.

[Taylor 36]

As long as the Skins win football games, I don't care how much double talk Vinny does. Its not like he's being paid to be the pope. Get over it Jason, you're better than that!!! Actually, I don't think he is better than that.

[CGSKINS]

who cares. vinny did what he had to do.

Jason get a life.

[Reic]

seriously, who the hell cares that he said they were not in talks with him.


what does it matter? We got Jason Taylor, a need on the D-line.

I woulda done the same damn thing, and laughed at everyone who moaned and cried about how I didn't leak any information.

They should have read extremeskins, we ****ing knew lol.

[Spartacus87]

My turn. FULL DISCLOSURE: I DON'T LIKE JLC AND I WOULDN'T HAVE READ IT UNLESS IT WAS POSTED HERE!

1. JLC - Grow up. I mean, this is the big leagues, son. Stop belly aching because you have no contacts.
2. JLC says that he hasn't spoken to Vinny since 2005. Well, isn't that what he's getting paid to do? Being the "redskins insider?" Isn't he supposed to have "inside sources" from the team? Maybe if he wasn't such a complete prick, the somebody would grant him inside information. As it is, he's restricted to "reporting" the press releases because nobody will talk to him.
3. I am not sure which is more accurate: JLC hasn't talked to Vinny, or Vinny hasn't talked to JLC... Things that make you go hmmmm.
4. If Vinny lying lowered the price from a 2 and a 5 to a 2 and a 6, then that's how the game is played.
5. Gibbs would have absolutely done the same thing. Except every body would laud it as a Savey Move.
6. "Talking around the subject" has it's consequences. Namely, the follow up question. Example:
Media dude: "Are you in discussions to trade for JT?"
Vinny: "We like who we have."
Media dude: "I'm sure you like who you have, but are you interested in adding somebody else, aka Jason Taylor?"
Vinny: "We are exploring all our options."
Media dude: "Does one of those options happen to be trading for JT?"
Vinny: I can't comment on that.
And ZING! The Media goes nuts with the "no comment" because, as everybody knows
7) NO COMMENT = YES.

So, kudos to Vinny. He got the guy, lied to the Media, who cares. Let's go play ball. Good post here :applause:.

JLC is a moron.

Vinny says anything other than "no, we're not talking to Miami," then interest gets blown up and the asking price goes up.

If other teams get into the bidding, just to try to raise the stakes, who knows, we could've ended up giving up our 1st rounder for Taylor.

Vinny played it like a smart GM and since JLC doesn't know a lick about anything other than the local music scene and other random trivia bits, he can't understand where Vinny was coming from and gets bitter instead.

Please Post, just promote Jason Reid and dump JLC.

Reid = actual journalist
JLC = hack

[cjbrown]

Deception is part of the art of war. It is expected. Later he will become better at masking things, but for now I'd rather he lie, than jeopardize the trade.

[TK]

Hey, if the guy wanted The Truth, and if he doesn't trust Vinnie's credability, why didn't he pick up the phone and call Parcells?
Hold the phone. That right there is to much like work for someone like JLC. :)

[Area51]

This guy is such a jackass. I hope the Skins ban him from Redskins Park and FedEx Field. What a dumb ass, douche. Why would Vinny announce that they are interested in acquring a top-notch DE? So other NFC East teams(which apparently all called the same day and were interested-most notably Giants) can try harder to acquire his services and/or drive the price up in what the Skins would have to give up to acquire him?

I have never actually hated anyone in the media until this douche. I still can't see how so many Skins fans actually like him and support him.

[squatch66]

I figure its like playing poker - you cant show your hand - you gotta be cool and BS.

exactly. if vinny comes right out and says "we are targeting jason taylor" then he opens the door for other teams to try to outbid us or for another team(read: division rival) to get us into a bidding war against ourselves.

[MoneySkinsFan]

Woah, slow down JLC. You kinda sound like a big baby.
I think Vinny is doing what he need to do, and that the ends justify the means.
JT is a Redskin.

Not Happy?


Get over it!

[malaysia's skins club]

Poor JLC..........

The guy just doesn't get it.

No sane manager will divulge his card to let teams inflate the bidding for JT.


JLC, message is quite clear, " You have credibility issues"


Constant reporting based on hearsay will only diminish whatever miniscule credibilty you have left.
Stop giving us "privately, certain players are negative on this and that".
Those unidentified non proactive individuals are always the underperforming, overpaid like Adam A / Brandon L.
It's no fluke that they are longer around.

Shot yourself --> hasn't spoken to Vinny C since 2005! and you wonder why you can't get into the loop!

Maintaining a brave front with your "no adverse impact on my ability to do my job. Actually, it's pretty refreshing." merely add insult to injury.

Get a grip before you get demoted to the minors or gets tagged with "designated for reassignment"

A suggestion for you---Why don't you give Maske or C.Brennan an SOS call. Maybe they can help you out...

[twobags95]

JLC is an idiot! Does he think he is part of the front office? What a dork!

[Skinzaddict1983]

Then why not just simply say "no comment"?

No comment basically implies you either are, or your afraid to admit you are.


Vinny on Redskins Nation last week, when asked about that guy from Mississippi that played/plays in Wisconsin coming to WASH, he said "I can't say yes or no because that could be takin as player infringement, but I can tell you that we are not interested because we are happy with what we have."


Again, it comes back to why would you want your front office to spill all the beans so other teams can try to counter act on the deal and either grab him before we do, or drive the price up because "they have shown interest"

[Salty]

JLC you are not a real journalist, you are a little baby :cry: with a public voice, who gets mad when people won't play with him. Please :stfu:.

[Old Bay]

Pretty sad that they mentioned this article on Mike and Mike this morning. I hope someone sends them an email and tell them not to listen to this as it's nothing new.

[Rocky21]

JasNo comes off sounding like a baby in his blog post. I have no problem with the GM of the Redskins deceiving the local media while negotiations are going on. Don't want to sabotage anything. Man up JLC, and quit yer cryin'.

[LoveDaSkins172645]

If other teams knew we were working to get JT how much would that have driven up the trade value? So what Cerrato lied, big deal! With the way ESPN, NFL writers have it out for the Redskins I would keep lying! Why bring attention to yourself when most everyone has it out for this team and owner. Jeez some people simply don't get shrewd business moves or maybe some people here don't realize the amounts of lies told on a daily basis. Get over it and rather than worry about Cerrato and whether he is lying or not, worry about the players that are here and will come here. IMHO!!

[mdboost]

I dont see the big deal here, no one likes the media anyways, does he expect people to be on his side?

[Cooley4President]

I'm a little late to the party here, but figured i'd throw my 2 cents in. JLC comes off terribly in this article and I don't see the point in writing it. GMs have to maintain secrecy so they don't tip their hands to other teams, especially when the Skins are known to set the market and demand for some players because of the money we offer. If other teams know we're pursuing someone, the idea is that they'll work harder. I'm sure all GMs keep quiet about this stuff, have you noticed that whenever rumors break they're just that, rumors? GMs never say what they're doing.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Having been born in 1986, I am not very familiar with Allen and Lomabrdi's interactions with the media, so I cannot make a judgment. Same deal with Beathard; I was too young to fathom anything he said when he was with the Redskins, or to really care who he was in the first place. Similarly, I did not follow the Packers very closely, so I am only vaguely aware of Ron Wolf's work in Green Bay.

Belichick has been established as a dishonest character, and I have little respect for him as a person, and consequently, I don't care for his team, either.

As for Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcells, I cannot recall a single instance in which either of them ever, EVER told an outright lie to the media. Being guarded and not wanting to share vital information is one thing, but intentionally misleading the media (and therefore the fans) is something for which I have no tolerance. I was careful to make that distinction in my previous post, which you either did not read or chose to ignore.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah, okay buddy. Gibbs is one of my idols, and he's a man of integrity no doubt, but come on brother. Gibbs has danced around the truth (which is essentially what many of us call "little white lies") for his entire tenure as Gibbs II. You need a history lesson then if you "don't really care who he (Beathard) was to this organization."

You can torch Vinny for his past mistakes in acquiring ****ty players via draft and FA, but at some point, you and the rest of the stragglers are going to have to recognize that this guy is getting the job done these days. Every media person wants a story (as we're all aware), and they are the dirty *******s, not Vinny. One of them tried to get Jason Taylor to throw Vinny under the bus yesterday by asking what time he was contacted. They don't care if they get this organization fined. If I were a media guy in DC, I'd want a story but not at the risk of ****ing the organization in the process. Most of these DC fags are so suspect, like many on this message board (not implying you btw). Vinny did what he had to do regardless of whether any of us consider it a lie. "No comment"= yes we're are talking to JT's agent (just like another poster mentioned), and "we've got some things in the works"= a phone call from an NFL executive about tampering.

BTW, since when do you need infinite wisdom to know how a GM should handle his business from a general fan's perspective? Hey fella, there are many here that know a lot more than you seem to want to give them credit for. To me, you're sounding more and more like JLC's artilce with every post in this thread. No offense, you just seem a little left of center since many here seem to recognize that Vinny is actually doing what we've wanted him to do for quite a while now. You can't knit pick at the guy when the overall picture is looking much better for us as an org'. :2cents:

[ScottAH87]

this guy also probably thinks he should be aloud to walk around area 51. whats the point in secracy?

but seriously what an idiot. "he should have told me, so what if it could make other teams try to pounce and get taylor for themselves. FRIENDS DONT KEEP SECRETS VINNY" :cry:

[fansince62]

hmmmm...gues this trade settles the matter on whether chris wilson is the second coming.

[Greek44]

You know, I've always been kind of hard on Jason LaCantReporta since he covered my beloved Caps so poorly before he took over on the Redskins side. I have to say though, some may call him whiny, but kudos to him to standing up and saying what many people think about Cerrato. Don't get me wrong, I love the trade, but come up with something better to say than that.

[elkabong82]

JLC needs to focus on football instead of being some over-dramatic cry-baby. When will the media realize that better football acumen will get better ratings than forced and speculative drama?

[allskins]

JlC stop :cry: and do your job. :writing:

[tml6157]

JLC your nothing but a whinny little *****!

Its part of the game dumbass. If we let people know we want Taylor, then the price could be driven up for him. Prime example is Philly. They balked on the 2nd and 5th for Taylor, we offered a 2nd and a 6th. Philly might have been willing to give up a 2nd and a 4th we dont know. So by saying we aren't intersted in him makes others think we arent so they dont have to figure in what our offer would be and how to beat it. It's simple strategy and it worked. JLC stop whinnin like a freshman girl in hs who just got stood up for the prom and write something meaningful! :doh:

[Monk4theHall81]

Let Jason Reid handle the beat and let LaConfora go cover soccer or the RedSox

[pvkeeper19]

I am sincerely surprised more people don't have a problem with this.

I agree that JLC is being kind of a sissy about the whole situation, but before I ever read this article I was struck by Cerrato's blatant dishonesty.

[JurgyFan]

I'm sure in the sanctuary of his office overlooking the field, the danny sits every day and maps out scenerios to acquire every flashy player in the NFL, just in case


That is probably truer than any of us are prepared to admit. Kind of like a guy moving toy soldiers around in the confines of his playroom...complete with "KABLAM!!!" and "VROOOOOM!" mouthed sound effects.

[tml6157]

I am sincerely surprised more people don't have a problem with this.

I agree that JLC is being kind of a sissy about the whole situation, but before I ever read this article I was struck by Cerrato's blatant dishonesty.

y would you be struck by it? would you want EVERYONE knowing our EVERY move? why dont we just go hand out 31 playbooks to the rest of the leagues head coaches? :doh:

[pvkeeper19]

y would you be struck by it? would you want EVERYONE knowing our EVERY move? why dont we just go hand out 31 playbooks to the rest of the leagues head coaches? :doh:
You're exaggerating. All along, all I've said is that I would expect the team to have a little more respect to its fans than to lie in their faces.

"We're looking at players to fill the hole left by Philip's injury. I can't comment on any individual players because of the NFL's tampering laws, and we want to be especially careful in light of the recent charges filed against the Vikings."

Look, I just made that up off the top of my head. And it's not a lie. And it doesn't give away any information. Your playbook analogy is way over thet op and completely unrelated to this situation.

[tml6157]

You're exaggerating. All along, all I've said is that I would expect the team to have a little more respect to its fans than to lie in their faces.

"We're looking at players to fill the hole left by Philip's injury. I can't comment on any individual players because of the NFL's tampering laws, and we want to be especially careful in light of the recent charges filed against the Vikings."

Look, I just made that up off the top of my head. And it's not a lie. And it doesn't give away any information. Your playbook analogy is way over thet op and completely unrelated to this situation.

Based on your comment, and the tendecies of this organization, how could you not think we were at least inquiring about Jason Taylor, when we were reported to have been my John Clayton from ESPN and we were know to around draft time. The FO has no contractual loyalty to the media in which they must share or at least give a broad statement of our plans. It was smart of Vinny to lie because as stated by the Tuna himself, each of the NFC teams inquired or made offers about Taylor, based upon just our situation and that we COULD be looking at him. Imagine if they knew for sure or were tipped towards it.

[Taylor 36]

You're exaggerating. All along, all I've said is that I would expect the team to have a little more respect to its fans than to lie in their faces.

"We're looking at players to fill the hole left by Philip's injury. I can't comment on any individual players because of the NFL's tampering laws, and we want to be especially careful in light of the recent charges filed against the Vikings."

Look, I just made that up off the top of my head. And it's not a lie. And it doesn't give away any information. Your playbook analogy is way over thet op and completely unrelated to this situation.

Actually the playbook analogy is closer to the point here than your understanding of it seems to be. If we tell the media, even inadvertently or cryptically, what we are contemplating as far as personnel moves, we may as well be handing the rest of the league are playbooks because then the rest of the league knows are plan of attack and strategy. Then, any team, especially a division rival (all three have been noted to have made calls to Parcells about Taylor) could ante up and swoop in and steal the player from us, preventing us from executing our personnel game plan. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

In his personal life, Vinnie may be a very honest person, but this is business. Vinny is/was doing his job. It is a shame that JLC can't/won't do his, and instead has to whine about how someone else is doing his. And, to admit proudly that he has been purposefully shanking his job responsibilities for years by not talking to Vinnie says a lot more about JLC as a reporter and a person than what Vinnie said or did not say says about Vinnie.

[pvkeeper19]

Based on your comment, and the tendecies of this organization, how could you not think we were at least inquiring about Jason Taylor, when we were reported to have been my John Clayton from ESPN and we were know to around draft time. The FO has no contractual loyalty to the media in which they must share or at least give a broad statement of our plans. It was smart of Vinny to lie because as stated by the Tuna himself, each of the NFC teams inquired or made offers about Taylor, based upon just our situation and that we COULD be looking at him. Imagine if they knew for sure or were tipped towards it.
You misunderstand me. I was certain the team was looking at Taylor, which is why I was upset when Cerrato said they weren't. Does the team have a contractual obligation to conduct honest interviews? No. But they do have an implicit obligation to the fans whose business keeps them afloat.

It sounds like we have differing opinions on business ethics. I'm of the opinion that it's best for all parties involved to avoid lying at all costs. Vinny lied repeatedly and willingly. I have a problem with that. It wasn't necessary; the example in my previous post proves it's possible to make a statement that doesn't divulge any information, but also isn't a lie.

Look, I'm no expert, and even I knew we were looking at Taylor. You mean to tell me you don't think other teams made that same assumption, even after Vinny lied about it? His lie accomplished nothing accept to cost the organization some credibility.

[RedskinDan0557]

But they do have an implicit obligation to the fans whose business keeps them afloat.

As a fan, I want the team to lie, I would have been pissed had they not.

This is football, we don't get our panties in a bunch over this kind of nonsense.

[pvkeeper19]

Actually the playbook analogy is closer to the point here than your understanding of it seems to be. If we tell the media, even inadvertently or cryptically, what we are contemplating as far as personnel moves, we may as well be handing the rest of the league are playbooks because then the rest of the league knows are plan of attack and strategy. Then, any team, especially a division rival (all three have been noted to have made calls to Parcells about Taylor) could ante up and swoop in and steal the player from us, preventing us from executing our personnel game plan. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
I still think you're wrong. Other teams had to have foreseen our interest in Taylor. I saw it, and I have no affiliation with any NFL organization. So he accomplished nothing by lying.

And as for the playbook analogy, it's a complete exaggeration. If a team thinks we're going after a player and drives up the price, we may or may not end up getting that player. But whether or not we end up getting him, a team knowing what plays we're going to run against them and planning for it is totally different. We're going to run those plays regardless of what player is at defensive end.

[da#1skinsfan]

MEdia: Are you talking with Miami for Jason Taylor?

Cerrato: Yes... YEs we are... here are the three possible trade contracts we have come up with... (hands out large contract packages prepared for each reporter)

derr....

bingo. f the media. lie to them all. tell them were trading portis for carson palmer, tell them we are unloading all of our draft picks for chad johnson, whatever. im tired of the days where we tell the media everything with a straight face. forget it, time to do what every other team in the league does and hold our cards close to our chest.

[SiestaBob]

Mark Maske would never have said what JLC is saying. He had class. JLC has yet to mature, and is acting like a spoiled child. Do you think any team is going to tell what trade they are working on to the media? JLC just needs to grow up. He can do better if he tries. What a shame his talent is wasted because he hasn't grown up.

[Reic]

I still think you're wrong. Other teams had to have foreseen our interest in Taylor. I saw it, and I have no affiliation with any NFL organization. So he accomplished nothing by lying.



Umm, he got us Jason Taylor while at least 2 other teams were trying to at the same time.

[fansince62]

I agree with last 2 posts ... JLC ... your job is to tell us which rookies will make the squad and why .. not to pontificate to further your own private agenda ... Shirley Povich has got to be spinning in his grave.

you got that right brotha! there's no evidence whatsoever that the Skins have been moving in a direction to limit news and control outlets!

in the end...it doesn't matter much. so long as "The Dan" and Vinny cannot produce a Championship team....they are interlopers playing with Big Boys.

[fansince62]

Umm, he got us Jason Taylor while at least 2 other teams were trying to at the same time.

wow! he sure got the best of Parcells. and we all know how well the strategy of signing aging vets has served the Skins in terms of sustained excellence. btw...that Vinny prevailed should make you hit the pause button for at least a second to consider why the other teams didn't move more aggressively.....at any time since JT became a marketable commodity.

play well Jason. make Andre a better player for the short period of time you are gracing us.

[pvkeeper19]

Umm, he got us Jason Taylor while at least 2 other teams were trying to at the same time.
Well, it's been reported that the Eagles made exactly the same offer we did--a 2nd and a 6th. Any team making a trade offer is going to know what other teams have offered. The Dolphins told them so the Eagles would know what offer they were trying to beat.

So I reiterate, lying accomplished nothing. The reason we won the bidding war is probably that the Dolphins expected our picks to be higher than the Eagles' (and whatever other teams') picks.

[fansince62]

Well, it's been reported that the Eagles made exactly the same offer we did--a 2nd and a 6th. Any team making a trade offer is going to know what other teams have offered. The Dolphins told them so the Eagles would know what offer they were trying to beat.

So I reiterate, lying accomplished nothing. The reason we won the bidding war is probably that the Dolphins expected our picks to be higher than the Eagles' (and whatever other teams') picks.

I agree on the Situational Awareness point. hadn't bothered to think about this from the Dolphins' perspective...interesting.

[Voice_of_Reason]

"We're looking at players to fill the hole left by Philip's injury. I can't comment on any individual players because of the NFL's tampering laws, and we want to be especially careful in light of the recent charges filed against the Vikings."


Media guy: Follow up! Can you confirm that you're talking to other teams about a trade? Or are you looking at players not on teams.
Vinny: Uh, well, uh, other teams? (Because if he said anything else, it's a lie.)
Media guy: Follow Up! So the biggest name is Jason Taylor of the Miami Dolphins. Have you contacted them?
Vinny: We're exploring all our options.
Media: That's not the answer to the question.
Vinny: No Comment.
ZING! No comment = yes.

If Vinny didn't want to answer the question, which he clearly didn't, then he HAD to just say, "No, dammit, we're not talking to anybody now get off my back." Otherwise with follow up questions, you're going to get tangled into a worse set of lies.

[SkinsFTW]

If it was me I'd make **** up.

"Yeah, we just got off the phone with Belichick and are considering trading our #1 draft picks in 2009 and 2010 for Junior Seau."

or

"Actually we just traded Portis, and our 2nd Rounder to Denver for Champ Bailey" just to blow some peoples minds, lol.

[cphil006]

It's ok to lie to the media because they aren't people like us.


taken from Peter Griffin in Family Guy when the devil on his shoulder tells him:

"It's ok to lie to Lois because she is a woman and they aren't people like us."

[General NSJ]

[QUOTE=pvkeeper19]You misunderstand me. I was certain the team was looking at Taylor, which is why I was upset when Cerrato said they weren't. Does the team have a contractual obligation to conduct honest interviews? No. But they do have an implicit obligation to the fans whose business keeps them afloat.

Considering that we lost 2 DE's on the first day of camp, Vinny kept his obligation to field a winning team by getting Taylor in the first place. As for his lying to the media, would you have felt better if he tipped his hand, the Giants or Eagles sweeten their deals and scooped up JT?

We lost a shot a one hell of a player, but Vinny told the truth like a good boy scout should.

Come on man.

[fansince62]

[QUOTE=pvkeeper19]You misunderstand me. I was certain the team was looking at Taylor, which is why I was upset when Cerrato said they weren't. Does the team have a contractual obligation to conduct honest interviews? No. But they do have an implicit obligation to the fans whose business keeps them afloat.

Considering that we lost 2 DE's on the first day of camp, Vinny kept his obligation to field a winning team by getting Taylor in the first place. As for his lying to the media, would you have felt better if he tipped his hand, the Giants or Eagles sweeten their deals and scooped up JT?

We lost a shot a one hell of a player, but Vinny told the truth like a good boy scout should.

Come on man.

like it would play out that way. you keep forgetting that the Phins are working a deal that suits their interests. do you honestly believe that they do not communicate to interested parties what they are being offered?

[fansince62]

Based on your comment, and the tendecies of this organization, how could you not think we were at least inquiring about Jason Taylor, when we were reported to have been my John Clayton from ESPN and we were know to around draft time. The FO has no contractual loyalty to the media in which they must share or at least give a broad statement of our plans. It was smart of Vinny to lie because as stated by the Tuna himself, each of the NFC teams inquired or made offers about Taylor, based upon just our situation and that we COULD be looking at him. Imagine if they knew for sure or were tipped towards it.

yup...the other GMs are too stupid to even imagine what the Skins might be thinking or offering.

I don't really care whether Vinny lied or not. I find the whole idea that cloak & dagger ops somehow make all the differnece in a business where needs and options are completley visible to everyone kinda...well......funny. In fact...hilarious....that and the idea that we...as in all of us...have no reason to trust what Vinny tells us in the future! (there's a cost to every strategy!!!!)

[MassSkinsFan]

Exactly!!!! SOP all the way.


If it wasn't, we'd be tipping our hand left and right.

Not living in the DC area I don't know much about the writer, but he does seem to be a bit naive or maybe some sort of idiot. Thoughts?


Isnt BS kind of SOP for this type of thing?
I am far from an expert but it seems every team "denies interest" or that they have talked to this player.... then the same team ends up with the player.
I figure its like playing poker - you cant show your hand - you gotta be cool and BS.

[pvkeeper19]

Considering that we lost 2 DE's on the first day of camp, Vinny kept his obligation to field a winning team by getting Taylor in the first place. As for his lying to the media, would you have felt better if he tipped his hand, the Giants or Eagles sweeten their deals and scooped up JT?

We lost a shot a one hell of a player, but Vinny told the truth like a good boy scout should.

Come on man.
You guys aren't responding to my argument. I argue that he could have not lied and still not "tipped his hand." And I also pointed out that the other teams involved in trade talks knew what the Redskins had offered--a detail you are failing to see or ignoring altogether. When other teams called to inquire about Taylor, the Dolphins undoubtedly told those teams what the other offers on the table were. The onus was then on those teams to beat the Redskins' offer, which none was willing to do. So you see, there was no need for secrecy, because it did not exist anyway.

This is why the example statement I wrote in a previous post would have been a sufficient response without giving away any important information. Teams issue similar statements all the time. Why Vinny decided to lie is beyond me. He gained nothing, and lost credibility.

What is so hard to understand about this?

[daveakl]

You guys aren't responding to my argument. I argue that he could have not lied and still not "tipped his hand." And I also pointed out that the other teams involved in trade talks knew what the Redskins had offered--a detail you are failing to see or ignoring altogether. When other teams called to inquire about Taylor, the Dolphins undoubtedly told those teams what the other offers on the table were. The onus was then on those teams to beat the Redskins' offer, which none was willing to do. So you see, there was no need for secrecy, because it did not exist anyway.

This is why the example statement I wrote in a previous post would have been a sufficient response without giving away any important information. Teams issue similar statements all the time. Why Vinny decided to lie is beyond me. He gained nothing, and lost credibility.

What is so hard to understand about this?

There is no way he could not "tip his hand" and not lie. If he says no comment, or we are looking at every option, then people are going to speculate that the Redskins are interested in Taylor or other players on the D-Line. The fact is that by saying they are not interested he is keeping his cards close to the vest and not telling people outside of the Redskins orginization what the Redskins orginization is doing. There is no responsibility for Vinny to say anything at all to the media or the fans.

You have no way of knowing if other teams know what the Redskins are offering or not. In many businesses it is illegal for someone to disclose what 1 side is offering then there are multiple offers on the table. I have no idea at all if this is the case in football or not, but I do know that if Parcells as a GM is talking to the Redskins as well as other teams it would be poor practice for him to tell exactly what the Redskins were offering for Taylor directly to them. Trust is HUGE between the 32 GM's.

[pvkeeper19]

There is no way he could not "tip his hand" and not lie. If he says no comment, or we are looking at every option, then people are going to speculate that the Redskins are interested in Taylor or other players on the D-Line. The fact is that by saying they are not interested he is keeping his cards close to the vest and not telling people outside of the Redskins orginization what the Redskins orginization is doing. There is no responsibility for Vinny to say anything at all to the media or the fans.

You have no way of knowing if other teams know what the Redskins are offering or not. In many businesses it is illegal for someone to disclose what 1 side is offering then there are multiple offers on the table. I have no idea at all if this is the case in football or not, but I do know that if Parcells as a GM is talking to the Redskins as well as other teams it would be poor practice for him to tell exactly what the Redskins were offering for Taylor directly to them. Trust is HUGE between the 32 GM's.
You would have to be retarded not to think the Redskins would be in the market for a DE after losing their starter. And even if Miami did not say "The Redskins offered us a 2nd and a 6th round pick," it is not a stretch to say that other teams would speculate with a reasonable degree of certainty that the Redskins were involved in the bidding. NFL GM's aren't stupid. Clearly the Eagles and Giants made that connection, because both were linked to trade talks over Taylor. I am absolutely certain, however, that the teams did know what offers were made, even if the teams who made those offers were not revealed. If they don't know what offers have been made, how can they make an offer of their own?

And if trust is so huge among NFL GM's as you say, wouldn't it make that much more sense for Vinny not to make a liar of himself? It doesn't matter who he was talking to. Do you give a liar a pass just because he lied to someone else and not you? I hope not, because that'd be pretty foolish. This incident establishes Vinny as dishonest. How do you know he hasn't lied to you in the past, or won't in the future? That will be in the back of the mind of people who deal with him from here on out.

[smokinskinsfan]

I would hate to think that the GM of my team would run out and tell the press everything that's going on.

Another JLC piece laced with sour grapes.


Exactly....I generally like JLC but this was just whiny garbage. He doesn't need to fill space so I don't know why he even posted something like this.

[daveakl]

You would have to be retarded not to think the Redskins would be in the market for a DE after losing their starter. And even if Miami did not say "The Redskins offered us a 2nd and a 6th round pick," it is not a stretch to say that other teams would speculate with a reasonable degree of certainty that the Redskins were involved in the bidding. NFL GM's aren't stupid. Clearly the Eagles and Giants made that connection, because both were linked to trade talks over Taylor.

And if trust is so huge among NFL GM's as you say, wouldn't it make that much more sense for Vinny not to make a liar of himself? It doesn't matter who he was talking to. Do you give a liar a pass just because he lied to someone else and not you? I hope not, because that'd be pretty foolish. This incident establishes Vinny as dishonest. That will be in the back of the mind of people who deal with him from here on out.

Thinking the Redskins are in the market for a starter and knowing that the Redskins had contacted the Dolphins within three hours of losing their starter are two totally different things. Why would the Redskins want any team to know that they were seriously pursuing Taylor from the Dolphins? All that does is drive up the price. Other teams speculating that the Redskins are interested in Taylor is fine, conformation is not. The Giants and Eagles were in trade talks with the Dolphins for many different reasons, not to attempt to keep him from the Redskins (opinion).

The idea that you can use Vinny telling the media he is not talking to other teams as establishing a pattern of dishonesty is a little absurd. All GM’s throw BS before the draft and during the season about who they are looking at and who they want to sign.

It could just as easily be said that GM’s would be more willing to deal with Vinny since they know he will not reveal everything that is being said to the media.

[pvkeeper19]

Thinking the Redskins are in the market for a starter and knowing that the Redskins had contacted the Dolphins within three hours of losing their starter are two totally different things. Why would the Redskins want any team to know that they were seriously pursuing Taylor from the Dolphins? All that does is drive up the price. Other teams speculating that the Redskins are interested in Taylor is fine, conformation is not. The Giants and Eagles were in trade talks with the Dolphins for many different reasons, not to attempt to keep him from the Redskins (opinion).
I am not saying Vinny should have confirmed the Redskins' interest in Taylor. He was right in not doing that--not only would it have been stupid, but it would also have been a violation of the league's tampering laws, and the team would likely have been subjected to penalties because of it.

What I'm saying is that refusal to comment on an individual player cannot logically be interpreted as an interest in that player. Vinny should have said something to the effect of "I cannot comment on our interest or lack of interest in any individual player due to the NFL's policy on tampering." He covers all his bases there. All that means is, it's against the rules for me to comment on what players we are looking at. To avoid narrowing the field, in addition to not commenting on those players, he is also not commenting on players the team is not interested in. Hence, other teams looking to drive up the price on a particular player run the risk that the Redskins are not bidding on that player at all.

In this case, Taylor was the obvious choice for a trade, and so this point is pretty much moot. But that also means other teams likely had a hunch the Redskins were looking at him, if they were looking at anybody. And it is safe to assume that when a team loses a starter and does not have a quality backup, they are looking for a replacement. So Vinny gained no advantage though lying. And if the lie isn't going to help him in any way, why do it at all?

So you see, it is possible--and, I would argue, preferable--to refuse comment on an individual player without categorically denying interest in that player.

[daveakl]

I am not saying Vinny should have confirmed the Redskins' interest in Taylor. He was right in not doing that--not only would it have been stupid, but it would also have been a violation of the league's tampering laws, and the team would likely have been subjected to penalties because of it.

What I'm saying is that refusal to comment on an individual player cannot logically be interpreted as an interest in that player. Vinny should have said something to the effect of "I cannot comment on our interest or lack of interest in any individual player due to the NFL's policy on tampering." He covers all his bases there. All that means is, it's against the rules for me to comment on what players we are looking at. To avoid narrowing the field, in addition to not commenting on those players, he is also not commenting on players the team is not interested in. Hence, other teams looking to drive up the price on a particular player run the risk that the Redskins are not bidding on that player at all.

In this case, Taylor was the obvious choice for a trade, and so this point is pretty much moot. But that also means other teams likely had a hunch the Redskins were looking at him, if they were looking at anybody. And it is safe to assume that when a team loses a starter and does not have a quality backup, they are looking for a replacement. So Vinny gained no advantage though lying. And if the lie isn't going to help him in any way, why do it at all?

So you see, it is possible--and, I would argue, preferable--to refuse comment on an individual player without categorically denying interest in that player.

I'm sorry but I fail to see why it is preferable.

[jrfriedm]

JLC and the WP can go blow out their :moon: F them.

I for one am glad that Vinny said what he said, and did what he did. And if it pissed of JLC than that makes it even better. I know that if I was I would probably go out of my way to piss off that stupid idiot.

[pvkeeper19]

I'm sorry but I fail to see why it is preferable.
Because there is no lie involved.

Even if you don't agree with the virtue of honesty in this case, do you at least see now that's it's possible to remain honest without putting oneself at a disadvantage?

Whether you feel Vinny was right to have lied isn't really relevant to my argument. I just want to show that he could have refrained from lying without hurting the team. Perhaps this is my own way to reconcile what has been called my "high-horse" point of view. Mostly, I just ****ing hate being lied to.

[shadow32]

I am not saying Vinny should have confirmed the Redskins' interest in Taylor. He was right in not doing that--not only would it have been stupid, but it would also have been a violation of the league's tampering laws, and the team would likely have been subjected to penalties because of it.

What I'm saying is that refusal to comment on an individual player cannot logically be interpreted as an interest in that player. Vinny should have said something to the effect of "I cannot comment on our interest or lack of interest in any individual player due to the NFL's policy on tampering." He covers all his bases there. All that means is, it's against the rules for me to comment on what players we are looking at. To avoid narrowing the field, in addition to not commenting on those players, he is also not commenting on players the team is not interested in. Hence, other teams looking to drive up the price on a particular player run the risk that the Redskins are not bidding on that player at all.

In this case, Taylor was the obvious choice for a trade, and so this point is pretty much moot. But that also means other teams likely had a hunch the Redskins were looking at him, if they were looking at anybody. And it is safe to assume that when a team loses a starter and does not have a quality backup, they are looking for a replacement. So Vinny gained no advantage though lying. And if the lie isn't going to help him in any way, why do it at all?

So you see, it is possible--and, I would argue, preferable--to refuse comment on an individual player without categorically denying interest in that player.

But wouldn't that have been a lie in an of itself? Tampering laws would not have been in effect because Was was dealing w/Mia. Not going behind Miami's back and dealing with JT.

[Monk4thaHALL]

But they do have an implicit obligation to the fans whose business keeps them afloat.


The organizations job is to field a winner. Get guys together who want to win and go after a championship. Their livelihood is to win football games.


They give the fans an opportunity to enjoy in that process by allowing them to go to the games, go to practice or be involved in some way.


It’s your choice to spend your money how you see fit. But the organization is not here to satisfy your psyche or sense of morality.


If you purchase season tickets, that entitles you entry to the stadium and to a seat at every home game. If that entitlement is somehow taken away without any sort-of provocation on your part or any reasoning offered by the organization, then you should be upset.


As to the point that V.C. lied, I think your running with something that has been blown way out of proportion, by some vindictive journalist. I don’t think V.C. did anything wrong. How you have calculated that he “lied” seems quite odd to me. It seems that you are rather confusing a sense of entitlement with a sense of elite morality. I’m not one to tell you to lower your standards of living or to accept that which you perceive to be a falsehood, but you need to get some perspective on this issue.


For one, I’m still not convinced that what V.C. said to the media can be considered “lying.” Maybe it’s just my perspective but I’ve always come to expect that a coach or executive of the FO will always be very guarded with any sort of information about the organization, toward the media. Especially if that information is of a sensitive nature. If only to protect the organization, not hurt it or lie to it's fan base. And I'm not all that clear on the 'tampering' issue, but I think perhaps that was the prevailing worry that kept V.C. from saying anything definative. Two, you are not entitled to an explaination from V.C. about anything. The Redskins are not a publicly traded company and you don’t own the Redskins. And lastly, we are talking about football here. It’s a sport, it’s a game that is won or lost by grown-up men who fight on a grass field.


If this sport, the game of football or your involvement with this organization of the Redskins gets to you, so much so that you feel you are being lied to, then you need to walk away from the keyboard and go outside for minute. Look at the sky and maybe run around a bit on a field and remember what it is about the sport of football that you like.


Lastly, if you fundamentally feel that you have been deceived by this organization, by V.C. specifically, then you should write a letter to them.


But if you feel like the move to acquire J. Taylor improved this teams chance to win games, then perhaps being happy about the outcome and not focusing on the minute minutia that surrounded the event, would serve better. Again, this is football, not national security.

[RedskinDan0557]

This thread only serves to highlight stupidity.

[pvkeeper19]

But wouldn't that have been a lie in an of itself? Tampering laws would not have been in effect because Was was dealing w/Mia. Not going behind Miami's back and dealing with JT.
I'm talking about a different part of the rules. Teams aren't allowed to make public comments regarding negotiations with a player who is still on another team's roster.

[fansince62]

The organizations job is to field a winner. Get guys together who want to win and go after a championship. Their livelihood is to win football games.


They give the fans an opportunity to enjoy in that process by allowing them to go to the games, go to practice or be involved in some way.


It’s your choice to spend your money how you see fit. But the organization is not here to satisfy your psyche or sense of morality.


If you purchase season tickets, that entitles you entry to the stadium and to a seat at every home game. If that entitlement is somehow taken away without any sort-of provocation on your part or any reasoning offered by the organization, then you should be upset.


As to the point that V.C. lied, I think your running with something that has been blown way out of proportion, by some vindictive journalist. I don’t think V.C. did anything wrong. How you have calculated that he “lied” seems quite odd to me. It seems that you are rather confusing a sense of entitlement with a sense of elite morality. I’m not one to tell you to lower your standards of living or to accept that which you perceive to be a falsehood, but you need to get some perspective on this issue.


For one, I’m still not convinced that what V.C. said to the media can be considered “lying.” Maybe it’s just my perspective but I’ve always come to expect that a coach or executive of the FO will always be very guarded with any sort of information about the organization, toward the media. Especially if that information is of a sensitive nature. If only to protect the organization, not hurt it or lie to it's fan base. And I'm not all that clear on the 'tampering' issue, but I think perhaps that was the prevailing worry that kept V.C. from saying anything definative. Two, you are not entitled to an explaination from V.C. about anything. The Redskins are not a publicly traded company and you don’t own the Redskins. And lastly, we are talking about football here. It’s a sport, it’s a game that is won or lost by grown-up men who fight on a grass field.


If this sport, the game of football or your involvement with this organization of the Redskins gets to you, so much so that you feel you are being lied to, then you need to walk away from the keyboard and go outside for minute. Look at the sky and maybe run around a bit on a field and remember what it is about the sport of football that you like.


Lastly, if you fundamentally feel that you have been deceived by this organization, by V.C. specifically, then you should write a letter to them.


But if you feel like the move to acquire J. Taylor improved this teams chance to win games, then perhaps being happy about the outcome and not focusing on the minute minutia that surrounded the event, would serve better. Again, this is football, not national security.



I agree...so maybe we won't have to listen to the organization preach to us about character, serving the community and all that other moral BS.

[pvkeeper19]

If this sport, the game of football or your involvement with this organization of the Redskins gets to you, so much so that you feel you are being lied to, then you need to walk away from the keyboard and go outside for minute. Look at the sky and maybe run around a bit on a field and remember what it is about the sport of football that you like.


Lastly, if you fundamentally feel that you have been deceived by this organization, by V.C. specifically, then you should write a letter to them.


But if you feel like the move to acquire J. Taylor improved this teams chance to win games, then perhaps being happy about the outcome and not focusing on the minute minutia that surrounded the event, would serve better. Again, this is football, not national security.
I respect your points, and agree with many of them in principle. I realize that in the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty insignificant lie. The main point of my continued debate is to prove that the lie wasn't necessary. Sure, it all worked out in the end and I suppose we're a better team for it. But I think it's a mistake to say we got Jason Taylor because Vinny lied. I think he could have gone without the lie and accomplished the same goal.

I'm sorry if I am coming off self-righteous, but I got a bit frustrated when I felt like people weren't responding to what I was saying because it was in the context of JLC's article. I agree that JLC seemed like a sissy, whiny girl in his article. But I also think he has a point: Vinny Cerrato told a lie, and I would have preferred if he had not.

The one thing you said that I really disagree with is that the team's job is to win. While that's true to an extent, you have to consider why that is: they have to win so the fans who support them will continue to pump money into the team. Without fans to buy tickets and merchandise and watch games on TV, the team makes no money. Then they have to find other jobs. Professional sports owe their very existence to fans. Granted, they are so entrenched in American society that even catastrophic PR messes have only a minimal effect on the teams and leagues in the long run. But if all the fans suddenly stopped watching sports, it wouldn't matter how many games the team won. Is that practically possible? No. But the fact remains that pro sports exist because the fans' money allows them to. Whether or not you believe this was an instance of abusing that fan base, wouldn't you agree that the team does owe a debt of gratitude to its fans? And wouldn't you also agree that such a debt can be partially repaid by treating those fans with respect?

[fansince62]

There is no way he could not "tip his hand" and not lie. If he says no comment, or we are looking at every option, then people are going to speculate that the Redskins are interested in Taylor or other players on the D-Line. The fact is that by saying they are not interested he is keeping his cards close to the vest and not telling people outside of the Redskins orginization what the Redskins orginization is doing. There is no responsibility for Vinny to say anything at all to the media or the fans.

You have no way of knowing if other teams know what the Redskins are offering or not. In many businesses it is illegal for someone to disclose what 1 side is offering then there are multiple offers on the table. I have no idea at all if this is the case in football or not, but I do know that if Parcells as a GM is talking to the Redskins as well as other teams it would be poor practice for him to tell exactly what the Redskins were offering for Taylor directly to them. Trust is HUGE between the 32 GM's.

so you don't think that turing down a team's offer can be used to infer that more is on the table elsewhere? and you believe, while Vinny is lying, that everyone else is living by the rules?

get real...there are very few secrets in all of this.

[fansince62]

Actually the playbook analogy is closer to the point here than your understanding of it seems to be. If we tell the media, even inadvertently or cryptically, what we are contemplating as far as personnel moves, we may as well be handing the rest of the league are playbooks because then the rest of the league knows are plan of attack and strategy. Then, any team, especially a division rival (all three have been noted to have made calls to Parcells about Taylor) could ante up and swoop in and steal the player from us, preventing us from executing our personnel game plan. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

In his personal life, Vinnie may be a very honest person, but this is business. Vinny is/was doing his job. It is a shame that JLC can't/won't do his, and instead has to whine about how someone else is doing his. And, to admit proudly that he has been purposefully shanking his job responsibilities for years by not talking to Vinnie says a lot more about JLC as a reporter and a person than what Vinnie said or did not say says about Vinnie.

careful what you ask for...in journalism..."doing your job" means convincing others to reveal protected information under cover of "anonymous sources say"......in short...corrupting people

[Monk4thaHALL]

I respect your points, and agree with many of them in principle.

I agree in principal with you, about what V.C. “should have” said, albeit in hindsight. And to that point, I have heard V.C. quoted and otherwise speak with those exact words you wish he would have said, tons of times before. But you have to understand that a million things must have been going through V.C.’s mind in those moments. I don’t think he purposefully went to the podium to address the media and any fans with the intent to lie about the J. Taylor situation. The words probably got jumbled up in his head with all of the figures and negotiation talks and counter-offers and what not. The words probably just came out wrong.



After all, V.C. helped this team get better. That should be the story not what he said to the media right after we lost 2 defensive linemen and were in talks to acquire J. Taylor. The fact that V.C. got J. Taylor, all the while our division rivals were after him as well, is rather impressive.

I agree that the organization should kept it's 'constituents' happy. But that relationship between the NFL organization and the fan base has become quite a bit 'chicken and egg.' I know that it was the fans and their continued support and money that has helped build the NFL to what it is today, but I really don't know if the fans have ever mobalized in protest, in such a way that the NFL has felt the need to do something drastic before all the fans walk away.

The Players association has the power to strike if unhappy, so the owners have to balence the power with them. But as for the fans, yeah people could walk away, not buy tickets, not buy gear, but some would remain. And eventually tides would turn and others would take their place when the team started to win. I personally could never turn my back on the Skins and I'd find it hard to believe that there would be enough people in this country who could just turn their back to football, to the point where the NFL could just desolve....but that's more for analytical debate.

[pvkeeper19]

I agree that the organization should kept it's 'constituents' happy. But that relationship between the NFL organization and the fan base has become quite a bit 'chicken and egg.' I know that it was the fans and their continued support and money that has helped build the NFL to what it is today, but I really don't know if the fans have ever mobalized in protest, in such a way that the NFL has felt the need to do something drastic before all the fans walk away.

The Players association has the power to strike if unhappy, so the owners have to balence the power with them. But as for the fans, yeah people could walk away, not buy tickets, not buy gear, but some would remain. And eventually tides would turn and others would take their place when the team started to win. I personally could never turn my back on the Skins and I'd find it hard to believe that there would be enough people in this country who could just turn their back to football, to the point where the NFL could just desolve....but that's more for analytical debate.
You're right. I just think that even though the league and the teams hold most of the cards in their relationship with the fans, it's a good idea for them not to take advantage of that.

[Monk4thaHALL]

I agree...so maybe we won't have to listen to the organization preach to us about character, serving the community and all that other moral BS.

Yeah, but I think most of that 'moral' stuff is shown to us, so that we respect an athlete who gets paid millions of dollars to play a game.

I don't think they say those things to us in order to rub it in, with a higher-than attitude.

Also, I don't think they show us all the community work they do in order to implore us to stand up and join the outreach programs. But if people were to be inspired enough to help their community and that inspiration was sparked by the Redskins, don't you think that's a good thing? No matter where the urge or inspiration came from?

It's also in the best interest of the individual player and the team to have a good reputation. Not saying that they genuinely don't already want to help, but it doesn't hurt their image.

But I don't feel the organization is dishonest. So therefore I don't think of them as hypocrites when they tout their community help efforts.

[daveakl]

so you don't think that turing down a team's offer can be used to infer that more is on the table elsewhere? and you believe, while Vinny is lying, that everyone else is living by the rules?

get real...there are very few secrets in all of this.

I have no idea what you are saying here.

[redman]

This is an interesting gray area of ethics. GM's and reporters normally are working side by side, each with different goals. In the case of trade discussions, those goals can conflict. I can understand why a GM would want to keep the information from his discussions, and even the fact of the discussions, private until he'd reached an agreement or concluded that he could not reach an agreement. I still don't think that he'd need to lie.

If I were a GM, I'd make it clear to the media in my opening press conference that it would be my standing policy to never confirm or deny ongoing trade discussions or rumors of those discussions, even if the rumors were false. Once the trade talks have concluded, I might or might not be willing to discuss them depending upon circumstances (for example, might they restart in the future?) but I'd never discuss them as they're happening.

By making that my policy, and especially so even when I'm asked about falsely rumored trade talks, I'd never be in a position to have to falsely deny something only to turn around hours later and admit that I'd lied.

[Monk4thaHALL]

Pvkeeper,


I want you know that I respect those that seek the truth, no matter in what area of study or relevancy.

Also, I respect the fact that you wish for the team that you support to be completely above-board and honest in every way. I too believe in that way and want to trust that my team represents all things good and conducts themselves on the field and off in an honest professional manner. Add wins to that equation and I'm completely happy.

With my earlier post, I wasn't trying to take anything away from you or of that importance.

That said, I'm not one who say the 'end justifies the means' especially if the means are dishonest or hurtful to others. However in this case, I don't find anything to be glaringly inappropriate or dishonest. Like I said, V.C. probably didn't intentionally try to lie. That's how I see it at least.

[dizzinator53]

Is this what you wanted?

Media: Are you planning on making a trade for Jason Taylor

Vinny: Yes, I am.... AS a matter of fact I figured I would pigeon hole myself and the Redskins into having to pay a higher asking price for him too by telling you about the inner workings of a privately owned company. Considering I am aware of much more that is going on in this league than you, I also know the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are all making a big push for him and are willing to match my offer... so i figured I would tell you instead of lying about it. I also wanted to get a huge fine from Roger " The Sherriff" Goodell for tampering with Miami Dolphins property and making comments on it. I wanted to lose big on this deal and probably not come out with the player at the end of everything anyway. That is why I am so honest with people that have no bearing on the decision and end up trying to **** the star in the end anyway... The media. Thank you and Goodnight.

[bulldog]

Who cares if the media feels slighted? :laugh:

The only thing that matters to fans is how the team performs based on the moves made, nobody gives a rat's ass whether the Washington Post or Times beat guys get the story first..............:D

[dizzinator53]

Who cares if the media feels slighted? :laugh:

The only thing that matters to fans is how the team performs based on the moves made, nobody gives a rat's ass whether the Washington Post or Times beat guys get the story first..............:D

Thank God for the ring of famers.

[Morneblade]

Is this what you wanted?

Media: Are you planning on making a trade for Jason Taylor

Vinny: Yes, I am.... AS a matter of fact I figured I would pigeon hole myself and the Redskins into having to pay a higher asking price for him too by telling you about the inner workings of a privately owned company. Considering I am aware of much more that is going on in this league than you, I also know the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are all making a big push for him and are willing to match my offer... so i figured I would tell you instead of lying about it. I also wanted to get a huge fine from Roger " The Sherriff" Goodell for tampering with Miami Dolphins property and making comments on it. I wanted to lose big on this deal and probably not come out with the player at the end of everything anyway. That is why I am so honest with people that have no bearing on the decision and end up trying to **** the star in the end anyway... The media. Thank you and Goodnight.

LOL!:laugh:

[AAARedskin]

No real man would ever whine like this guy does in this article. How embarrassing! Oh boo hoo! Vinny never gives me the inside scoop....he's not fair! Nobody associated with the Skins should ever give this HACK the time of day.

[Toe Jam]

Thank God for the ring of famers.

I'll second that.

Without them, we would all pretty much suck.:laugh:

[pvkeeper19]

Is this what you wanted?

Media: Are you planning on making a trade for Jason Taylor

Vinny: Yes, I am.... AS a matter of fact I figured I would pigeon hole myself and the Redskins into having to pay a higher asking price for him too by telling you about the inner workings of a privately owned company. Considering I am aware of much more that is going on in this league than you, I also know the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are all making a big push for him and are willing to match my offer... so i figured I would tell you instead of lying about it. I also wanted to get a huge fine from Roger " The Sherriff" Goodell for tampering with Miami Dolphins property and making comments on it. I wanted to lose big on this deal and probably not come out with the player at the end of everything anyway. That is why I am so honest with people that have no bearing on the decision and end up trying to **** the star in the end anyway... The media. Thank you and Goodnight.
Yep, that's what I was hoping for. :doh:

Don't respond to the thread without reading it.

[fansince62]

Who cares if the media feels slighted? :laugh:

The only thing that matters to fans is how the team performs based on the moves made, nobody gives a rat's ass whether the Washington Post or Times beat guys get the story first..............:D

then why the constant angst over what this guy prints/posts?

I agree.....performance (= winning) is all that matters in the end. so where do we stand in that regard?

[fansince62]

JLC and the WP can go blow out their :moon: F them.

I for one am glad that Vinny said what he said, and did what he did. And if it pissed of JLC than that makes it even better. I know that if I was I would probably go out of my way to piss off that stupid idiot.

Some philosopohy from the Donald Rumsfeld School of Journalism!!!... :cheers:

[fansince62]

Yeah, but I think most of that 'moral' stuff is shown to us, so that we respect an athlete who gets paid millions of dollars to play a game.

I don't think they say those things to us in order to rub it in, with a higher-than attitude.

Also, I don't think they show us all the community work they do in order to implore us to stand up and join the outreach programs. But if people were to be inspired enough to help their community and that inspiration was sparked by the Redskins, don't you think that's a good thing? No matter where the urge or inspiration came from?

It's also in the best interest of the individual player and the team to have a good reputation. Not saying that they genuinely don't already want to help, but it doesn't hurt their image.

But I don't feel the organization is dishonest. So therefore I don't think of them as hypocrites when they tout their community help efforts.

I happen to disagree....but a good response just the same..... :applause:

[fansince62]

Is this what you wanted?

Media: Are you planning on making a trade for Jason Taylor

Vinny: Yes, I am.... AS a matter of fact I figured I would pigeon hole myself and the Redskins into having to pay a higher asking price for him too by telling you about the inner workings of a privately owned company. Considering I am aware of much more that is going on in this league than you, I also know the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are all making a big push for him and are willing to match my offer... so i figured I would tell you instead of lying about it. I also wanted to get a huge fine from Roger " The Sherriff" Goodell for tampering with Miami Dolphins property and making comments on it. I wanted to lose big on this deal and probably not come out with the player at the end of everything anyway. That is why I am so honest with people that have no bearing on the decision and end up trying to **** the star in the end anyway... The media. Thank you and Goodnight.

yes..that is so much better thought out and to the point than "We don't discuss personnel actions in the media".

you do get the idea that a confrontational posture sets up incentives to undermine the team (in the sense of developing and trusting other sources)? don't you? there are easier ways to accomplish the objective of withholding information without overtly antagonizing people...you know....*crewing them without their even realizing it.....that's what clever people do (e.g., most of Congress!)

[cphil006]

It's ok to lie to the media because they aren't people like us.


taken from Peter Griffin in Family Guy when the devil on his shoulder tells him:

"It's ok to lie to Lois because she is a woman and they aren't people like us."


I re-iterate my earlier quote... this must be known...

:applause:

[USNationalist]

The Press is the biggest bunch of douche bags to grace the face of the planet. All of them are obsessed with a sense of entitlement.