How sorry is the state of the ACC?

[expensivegift]

Worse than the Big East or as good as the WAC?

[DCSaints_fan]

Winning the ACC this year will be like being crowned the king of the short bus

[Major Harris]

Worse than the Big East

has been for a few years at least.

or as good as the WAC?

that one is up for debate, for sure.

[Om]

Not looking real great.

[chipwhich]

ACC will never be a football powerhouse. Players want to play for teams where football is everything.

I thought adding Miami and Fla state may help that. It hasn't.

ACC is still a basketball powerhouse. It will remain as such.

How many ACC stadiums have 90K + capacity? You want to play with the big boys you have to play with the big boys.

[Merlin Emrys]

At this point its not even a debateable question. The ACC hasn't won a BCS game in 8 years. Today, we saw the top 2 preaseason ACC teams go down to lower ranked opponents. The ACC is nowhere near as good as the Big East.

[BayouBrave86]

Came here to post the same type of thread. Man oh man what a bad day for the ACC. Arguably the 6th best team in the SEC just stomped the ACC favorite. Geeeez.

[seantaylor666]

Lets get ahead of ourselves gentlemen. This is the first weekend of the year, the ACC is obviously on a downtrend, but i have confidence things will change in a few months. As far as the big east goes, lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Yes WV is a great squad but the rest of the conference is a joke. Sorry.

[Spartacus87]

ACC will never be a football powerhouse. Players want to play for teams where football is everything.

I thought adding Miami and Fla state may help that. It hasn't.

ACC is still a basketball powerhouse. It will remain as such.

How many ACC stadiums have 90K + capacity? You want to play with the big boys you have to play with the big boys. You must love having your credibility be thrown out the window on topics.

FSU wasn't added to the ACC, it was Miami and VT.

And arguably, there has never been a greater football powerhouse than FSU for 15 years straight, especially throughout the 90's.

Is the ACC down right now? Yes.

But two things:
1- Tech was overhyped this year. Anyone who disagrees is probably a Tech fan. Especially after they red shirted Tyrod and tried to keep rolling with just Glennon. You can't lose that many guys, plug in underclassmen to take their spots, and just keep it going, especially if said guys aren't the kind of elite cross-country talent that programs like USC keep plugging in. These are "athletes" recruited to fit the Tech system. A learning period will be required for Tech to step back to where it was last year, and maybe become even better. But for this year, they won't be that great. Sorry SHF, you gotta wait until likely 2009.

2- FSU and Miami are the two programs that the ACC needs to bounce back. The history both programs have, and their value for ratings, mean that the ACC depends on them at the end of the day. It's no secret that the two programs that have floundered the most since the Tech/Miami merger have coincided their notorious down years with the worst years for the conference. Both schools have some of the biggest college football fans, usually a lot of the top recruits, and most of the media hype (despite being undeserved as of late). And make no mistake, FSU and Miami are indeed coming back into the fold. Coaching makes all the difference, and both programs lately have suffered the worst kinds of coaching and overall directional mistakes, but both programs have also gotten that fixed and are changing completely like night and day, and with that comes the expected production of the prized top recruits and better on field performance. By 2009 and especially 2010, the U and the Seminoles will be right back in the scene, likely as two of the top, if not the two top, programs in the conference. And with that, the ACC will start to regain its own credibility, since choke artists like VT and Clemson won't be leading the way and losing their big games.

But as for this year, yes, the ACC is certainly starting off on a bad foot.

[hokie4redskins]

This is funny. If there is anybody who shouldn't be talking smack, it's FSU fans. FSU has been, hands down, the biggest embarrassment to the ACC. VT has done more than its part since expansion. Meanwhile, FSU continues to drown in its own mediocrity and ineptitude. Let's be clear about this: FSU makes the ACC look bad, not VT. You worry about your own **** program. We've been hearing FSU will bounce back for years. Tick tock *****.

That being said, did I expect to lose to ECU? Nope. Does it surprise me? Nope. My suspicions of this team started early but I tried ignoring it through my blind homerism a tad. But my suspicions were confirmed when TT was redshirted. Regardless, getting raided by the NFL tends to make an impact on transition years. No Hokie in the land thought 2008 was going to be our year. We all knew 2009-2010 was going to be Beamer's window of opportunity back when TT committed.

I still expect this team to gel to an extent and I still expect to own the ACC as we have since our arrival. Right now, we're defending ACC champs, so haters can eat a ****.

Congrats to ECU. They outplayed and outcoached us. Stinespring is a cancer.

[PleaseBlitz]

:laugh: God lord the ACC is bad.

Their one shining hope of a team coming into the year gets TROUNCED by Alabama. Their consensus #2 gets beaten by a Conference USA team. NC State got hammered on Thursday and UVA got hammered yesterday, though no one expected anything different.

Hey, at least Duke beat JMU. :)

[chipwhich]

You must love having your credibility be thrown out the window on topics.

FSU wasn't added to the ACC, it was Miami and VT.

And arguably, there has never been a greater football powerhouse than FSU for 15 years straight, especially throughout the 90's.


Son if you want credibility know what YOU are talking about. You were too young to watch Football when Fla State join the acc which was not too long ago.

Fla State SINCE joining the ACC has been in steady decline.

The ACC is NOT, will NOT, and has never been a Football powerhouse.

And if you are from Football powerhouse conference, the laugh at the likes of Virginia Tech as being a major collegiate football program.

Learn your history before questioning others credibility.

[Fletch_Lives59]

This is funny. If there is anybody who shouldn't be talking smack, it's FSU fans. FSU has been, hands down, the biggest embarrassment to the ACC. VT has done more than its part since expansion. Meanwhile, FSU continues to drown in its own mediocrity and ineptitude. Let's be clear about this: FSU makes the ACC look bad, not VT. You worry about your own **** program. We've been hearing FSU will bounce back for years. Tick tock *****.

That being said, did I expect to lose to ECU? Nope. Does it surprise me? Nope. My suspicions of this team started early but I tried ignoring it through my blind homerism a tad. But my suspicions were confirmed when TT was redshirted. Regardless, getting raided by the NFL tends to make an impact on transition years. No Hokie in the land thought 2008 was going to be our year. We all knew 2009-2010 was going to be Beamer's window of opportunity back when TT committed.

I still expect this team to gel to an extent and I still expect to own the ACC as we have since our arrival. Right now, we're defending ACC champs, so haters can eat a ****.

Congrats to ECU. They outplayed and outcoached us. Stinespring is a cancer.
FSU has won 12 ACC Championships in the 16 years they have been in the ACC. How many has Va Tech won? How many National Championships has Va Tech won? remember when they lost to Peter Warrick? you sir are a complete idiot.... Lets go Pirates.....

[EersSkins05]

Wow, I love watching ACC fans attack their own.

By the way, the statement that "VT has done more than its part since expansion" is interesting in that VT has lost 4 out of their last 5 bowl games. So if you mean "doing their part" as in "not winning BCS bowl games" like the rest of the conference, I suppose you're correct. lol

[Fletch_Lives59]

Fla State SINCE joining the ACC has been in steady decline.

5 National Championship appearances?

2 National Championships?

2 Heisman Trophy winners?

12 Bowl wins?

10 seasons with 11 or more wins? (only 2 teams in NCAA history to do it)

all since joining the ACC...:doh:

old timer:cheers:

P.S. ask Blitz what WVU's record is against FSU in bowl games
:secret: 0-2

[chipwhich]

5 National Championship appearances?

2 National Championships?

2 Heisman Trophy winners?

12 Bowl wins?

10 seasons with 11 or more wins? (only 2 teams in NCAA history to do it)

all since joining the ACC...:doh:

P.S. ask Blitz what WVU's record is against FSU in bowl games
:secret: 0-2

And what have they done the last 5 years?

ACC is not a football powerhouse. Those teams joining end up in the same fate as all old time ACC teams.

VT, Fla State, Miami, they all are doomed to being in a conference that the nations top recruits don't want to play in.

Which was my point.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Pretty awful for one more year

The upgrade in coaching that was made the past 2 offseasons across the conference will start to pay dividends next year

FSU will be much better very fast. I think Randy Shannon will get this superstar class of recruits to start playing high level ball by 2010

Butch Davis will have UNC as a credible bowl eligible team. Ditto Tom O'Brien at NCSU. Jim O'Brien has turned Wake Forest into a credible, bowl eligible team. We'll see if Cutliffe can at least get Duke from 4 wins a decade to 4 wins a year. I think Paul Johnson will do some things at GT like he did at Navy

3 guys who need to go are Bryan Stinespring (VT offensive coordinator) and Tommy Bowden and his choking dogs at Clemson and Al Groh at Virginia.

The caliber of coaches overall now are far superior to what was in the ACC in 2006 when the likes of Chuck Amato, John Bunting, Ted Roof, Larry Coaker and Chan Gailey roamed the sidelines of the ACC

[Spartacus87]

And what have they done the last 5 years?

ACC is not a football powerhouse. Those teams joining end up in the same fate as all old time ACC teams.

VT, Fla State, Miami, they all are doomed to being in a conference that the nations top recruits don't want to play in.

Which was my point. FSU and Miami have some of the top recruits in the nation, especially their most recent class...

Your credibility, like it or not, is still at a minimum...especially after initially claiming that FSU hasn't done anything since joining the ACC before getting crushed on that idea...

[SkinsHokieFan]

FSU and Miami have some of the top recruits in the nation, especially their most recent class...

People are no longer impressed by recruits as both FSU and Miami have pulled in top 10 classes each year this decade

The difference is, FSU has greatly upgraded its coaching staff on offense (which VT needs to do badly) and Miami got rid of hand-clapper Coaker

I think you see signs from FSU this year that they are turning the corner and will be a damn good team in 2009. Miami it will take till 2010

[pagevalleyskins]

:laugh: God lord the ACC is bad.

Their one shining hope of a team coming into the year gets TROUNCED by Alabama. Their consensus #2 gets beaten by a Conference USA team. NC State got hammered on Thursday and UVA got hammered yesterday, though no one expected anything different.

Hey, at least Duke beat JMU. :)

And there we are...the absolute dreck of the ACC, beats a team that won a Division 1-AA championship back in '04. (I live a hour away from JMU, if you care.)
As for UVA Saturday...when does the "fire Al Groh" watch begin in earnest?? (And yes, I'm a UVA fan, too.):eaglesuck:gaintsuck:doh::(

[Spartacus87]

People are no longer impressed by recruits as both FSU and Miami have pulled in top 10 classes each year this decade

The difference is, FSU has greatly upgraded its coaching staff on offense (which VT needs to do badly) and Miami got rid of hand-clapper Coaker

I think you see signs from FSU this year that they are turning the corner and will be a damn good team in 2009. Miami it will take till 2010 Very understandable approach to take, considering yes, both schools have had highly touted guys with little payoff due to completely inept coaching...but that's different from saying top recruits don't go to either school at all.

They did, and still very much do, but like you said, now the coaching is highly upgraded to actually make them worth a damn.

I actually think Miami will be ridiculous in 2010-2011...very possibly the best team in the ACC, they'll be a weak team this year due to being so young all over the place, but their past couple classes are just absurd and they have some great coaches now. FSU just needs to develop E.J. Manuel for 2010 and hopefully next year figure out a good 2-QB system with Christian Ponder and D'Vo...unless Ponder is able to take the QB reigns from Weatherford this year as it's been rumored...

[SkinsHokieFan]

They did, and still very much do, but like you said, now the coaching is highly upgraded to actually make them worth a damn.

I actually think Miami will be ridiculous in 2010-2011...very possibly the best team in the ACC, they'll be a weak team this year due to being so young all over the place,.

I still think Randy Shannon needs to prove himself (last year wasn't a good start, but he has done some things to change the culture) before we can start to see where Miami will go

What he has proven is that he is a no nonsense guy that expects discipline and his a great defensive mind. His D will be very good, but what about that offense?

By 2010-2011 Miami and FSU should be back to where they were supposed to be in 2004, amongst the big 3 in the ACC with Virginia Tech still a little ahead of both schools, due to the fact we just brought in 2 straight absurd recruiting classes :) and will have Tyrod Taylor as a full time starter (and no, stars have never meant a thing for VT, its getting the right guys which Beamer has done)

[Forehead]

12 Bowl wins?

Yeah man, FSU rules...I remember that last BCS bowl game they made, the 2005 Orange Bowl....oh wait, who won that game?

http://dipity.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/timelines/8f398368593a6a7ca7666a24bcc7e33e.jpg

[Fletch_Lives59]

wanna talk about a buttom feeder of their conference^^^^^^^^^^^:cheers:

[Major Harris]

And there we are...the absolute dreck of the ACC, beats a team that won a Division 1-AA championship back in '04. (I live a hour away from JMU, if you care.)
As for UVA Saturday...when does the "fire Al Groh" watch begin in earnest?? (And yes, I'm a UVA fan, too.):eaglesuck:gaintsuck:doh::(

am i reading this right? you're a duke fan AND a virginia fan? be prepared for the worst if this is truth.

[Gator Bait]

I'm not going to debate the fact that after week 1 the ACC looks like the weakest conference in the BCS. Although, the Big East isn't too far behind....how many BCS teams did Big East teams beat this weekend?

ACC teams looked terrible this weekend....but the bottom of the barrel BCS conference is still yet to be determined this year.

SEC still the strongest.....something that isn't changing any time soon!

[Major Harris]

SEC still the strongest.....something that isn't changing any time soon!

i think the big 12 is coming on this year. still, the sec has to be #1. unless clemson is really bad, 'bama back on the rise really solidifies an already top conference.

[Gator Bait]

i think the big 12 is coming on this year. still, the sec has to be #1. unless clemson is really bad, 'bama back on the rise really solidifies an already top conference.

you are definitely right about the Big 12....they aren't too far behind the SEC. They were the second best conference as well last year. This is the first time in a long time I can remember their being more than two teams (oklahoma/texas) in the mix for the Big-12 championship!

[The Evil Genius]

The bottom, however, of the SEC is still really bad. Miss St losing to La Tech...Arkansas barely surviving (28-24) over 1-AA Western Illinois.

[Gator Bait]

The bottom, however, of the SEC is still really bad. Miss St losing to La Tech...Arkansas barely surviving (28-24) over 1-AA Western Illinois.

every conference has their slums! The SEC does, however, have UF, LSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee, and Georgia to keep them stong.

you can count on 3 of these teams to be in the top 10 or 15 all year long. I think the winner of GA and UF will be in the national championship this year!

[The Evil Genius]

every conference has their slums! The SEC does, however, have UF, LSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee, and Georgia to keep them stong.

you can count on 3 of these teams to be in the top 10 or 15 all year long. I think the winner of GA and UF will be in the national championship this year!

Would that be the same Tennessee that lost last night to a 3rd string QB?

[Gary Clark Fan]

the acc is garbage. Clemson is the most over ranked team year after year. They always find a way to blow and VT, well I dont know what you call that other then a choke job. Welcome to college football 08. (posted in wrong forum earilier)

[Gator Bait]

Would that be the same Tennessee that lost last night to a 3rd string QB?

yep...that same tennessee who lost last night.....that's why I listed 6 teams and said 3 of them would be in the top 15 all year long......


this year should be between GA, UF, Auburn, LSU, and Bama

I think it will be GA, UF, Auburn for most of the year.

Auburn is gonna get a boost after they beat WVU:cheers:

[Major Harris]

Auburn is gonna get a boost after they beat WVU:cheers:

thursday night in morgantown won't be fun.

[chipwhich]

FSU and Miami have some of the top recruits in the nation, especially their most recent class...

Your credibility, like it or not, is still at a minimum...especially after initially claiming that FSU hasn't done anything since joining the ACC before getting crushed on that idea...

:rolleyes:

Reading comprehension is your friend. Try it.

:cheers:

[ATCRedskin82]

This year seems to be starting off with more to be desired

[Gator Bait]

thursday night in morgantown won't be fun.

i must admit....it will be extremely tough to beat WVU in their own backyard...but I think Auburn is up to the test! Whatever happens...it should be a very close kick ass game!

[SkinsHokieFan]

thursday night in morgantown won't be fun.

Kinda like December 1st in Morgantown, right? ;)

[The Evil Genius]

Kinda like December 1st in Morgantown, right? ;)

Except, hopefully, this coach won't be afraid to throw the ball if and when there are 9 guys in the box.

:)

[Spartacus87]

For what it's worth, Drew Weatherford was removed as starting QB today for FSU...Christian Ponder has officially taken his spot...could easily mean more big plays in the offense, but also some more turnovers as Ponder learns his own limits and the nuances of the game...but the kid's a hell of a playmaker compared to ultra-conservative Weatherford...

[Major Harris]

Kinda like December 1st in Morgantown, right? ;)

i'd hope not. as pointed out, we won't continue to run into a 9 man brick wall this year. we also don't have a coach that is mad at the athletic department because his agent has convinced him that he should have his very own paid athletic website (cough**francione**cough), and that he should in fact be able to dictate operations of the entire athletic department because he wins football games.

i'd say the program is a bit more grounded and stable right now then it was at that time.

besides, as a hokie fan, you should know about thursday nights in morgantown.

[SkinsHokieFan]

besides, as a hokie fan, you should know about thursday nights in morgantown.

Wednesday nights, Wednesday nights :doh:

We demolished WVU on Thursday night

[PleaseBlitz]

Who IS the best QB in the ACC? Skinner?

[PleaseBlitz]

Wednesday nights, Wednesday nights :doh:

We demolished WVU on Thursday night

Are you STILL trying to convince yourself that VT is on the same level at WVU right now?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Are you STILL trying to convince yourself that VT is on the same level at WVU right now?

Are you STILL trying to convince yourself WVU was ever at VT's level?

Going back to my response, Virginia Tech never lost to WVU on Thursday night. The 2002 and 2003 debacles were both Wednesday night games

WVU though got pounded on Thursday night in Blacksburg in 2000

Little detail? Yea. But I am a detail guy

[The Evil Genius]

Check back in with us when Tech wins a BCS Game. Oh yeah, I forgot, they don't play to win them since they don't matter. :rolleyes:

[The Evil Genius]

As for being on the same level, I don't think Tech has anything to worry about. They won't be anywhere near WVU's level until they actually start having something that resembles a high school offense.

[PleaseBlitz]

Are you STILL trying to convince yourself WVU was ever at VT's level?

Going back to my response, Virginia Tech never lost to WVU on Thursday night. The 2002 and 2003 debacles were both Wednesday night games

WVU though got pounded on Thursday night in Blacksburg in 2000

Little detail? Yea. But I am a detail guy


Im more of a big picture guy myself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

[The Evil Genius]

Im more of a big picture guy myself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

I think the real comparison will come this weekend. Since they play both of us in back to back weeks, it will be telling to see how WVU does against ECU.

I still think WVU rolls by 2+ TD's.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Im more of a big picture guy myself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

Yeehaw, week 1 rankings

Lets see how much they fluctuate this year

IMO, rankings shouldn't come out till week 6 at the earliest. Similar to the BCS

[PleaseBlitz]

Yeehaw, week 1 rankings

Lets see how much they fluctuate this year

IMO, rankings shouldn't come out till week 6 at the earliest. Similar to the BCS


I could post end-of-year rankings last year if you prefer. :)

[The Evil Genius]

I could post end-of-year rankings last year if you prefer. :)

Or 2006...or 2005...in fact you have to go back to 2004 to see the last time that Tech was ranked higher than WVU at the end of the year.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I could post end-of-year rankings last year if you prefer. :)

The ones that matter, sure :)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings

[The Evil Genius]

Lest we forget - Tech always plays to lose their bowl games. That's why they win at losing them.

[PleaseBlitz]

The ones that matter, sure :)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings

Oh i keep forgetting that bowl games dont count in SkinsHokieLand. :rotflmao:

[SkinsHokieFan]

Oh i keep forgetting that bowl games dont count in SkinsHokieLand. :rotflmao:

I tend not to prioritize a bowl game nearly as much as the rest of the CFB world does

I guess I would if it was a situation like Texas following the 2004 season or Ohio State following the 2005 season where their BCS wins vaulted them to a high pre-season ranking which they carried into the MNC game.

Other then that, meh. We win, big whoop. We lose, oh no.

Its all about the MNC game

[pagevalleyskins]

am i reading this right? you're a duke fan AND a virginia fan? be prepared for the worst if this is truth.

No, actually I happen to be a DUKES fan...as in JMU Dukes...AND a Virginia fan.
Stupidity ABOUNDS on this thread...:gaintsuck:eaglesuck:logo::helmet::doh:

[Major Harris]

Wednesday nights, Wednesday nights :doh:

We demolished WVU on Thursday night

the point still remains. weeknight in morgantown. doctors offices close due to the mass influx of tailgaters in the hospital / med ctr. parking lot. it will be wild. and you know this.

And there we are...the absolute dreck of the ACC, beats a team that won a Division 1-AA championship back in '04. (I live a hour away from JMU, if you care.)
As for UVA Saturday...when does the "fire Al Groh" watch begin in earnest?? (And yes, I'm a UVA fan, too.):eaglesuck:gaintsuck:doh::(

No, actually I happen to be a DUKES fan...as in JMU Dukes...AND a Virginia fan.
Stupidity ABOUNDS on this thread...:gaintsuck:eaglesuck:logo::helmet::doh:

color me stupid, or color me jajerbombed, but reading your post again, i see how i made the mistake. :cheers:

[Toe Jam]

ACC is weaksauce except for Clemson.

I still have faith.

[jbooma]

The ACC is weak but the Big East is right next to it. What happened to powerhouses of Rutgers and Lousiville :)

WVU should be careful they are playing the team that beat VT this week. Would all the WVU fans just vanish if that were to happen :D

[Toe Jam]

The ACC is weak but the Big East is right next to it. What happened to powerhouses of Rutgers and Lousiville :)

WVU should be careful they are playing the team that beat VT this week. Would all the WVU fans just vanish if that were to happen :D

They would be heading for the hills...

oh.. wait...

;)

[Major Harris]

Would all the WVU fans just vanish if that were to happen :D

is there a wvu fan on this board that disappears after losses and avoids the lumps that come with being a college football fan?

btw, where have you been?

[jbooma]

is there a wvu fan on this board that disappears after losses and avoids the lumps that come with being a college football fan?

btw, where have you been?


no you guys are good, very busy, how you been?

Buckeyes had a scare today, looking forward to next week.

[BayouBrave86]

Bottom dweller just takes your only ranked team down to the wire. Geeeez. I do think the U is going to play well against Florida tonight though.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Miami is going to be very very good very fast

This class they have brought in this year looks very good

Hopefully our young guns that we have can stay one step ahead of them

[DCSaints_fan]

Miami is going to be very very good very fast

This class they have brought in this year looks very good

Hopefully our young guns that we have can stay one step ahead of them

With Stinkspring at the helm, don't count on it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

If we lose tonight, the ACC could have 0 ranked teams OLS

Wake losing to Navy :doh:

[The Evil Genius]

That was an awesome display of football last night from 2 of the upper echelon ACC teams.

Way to set football back 40 years, Clemson and Wake.

[The Evil Genius]

No teams in the top 20 of the AP or USA Today poll. One team in the top 20 of the BCS.

Tough week last week when the 3 rated teams lost.

Its looking more and more like the BE and ACC winner will be paired up in the BCS Bowl.

[PleaseBlitz]

Who saw GT as being the class of the ACC this year?

[Fletch_Lives59]

No teams in the top 20 of the AP or USA Today poll. One team in the top 20 of the BCS.

Tough week last week when the 3 rated teams lost.

Its looking more and more like the BE and ACC winner will be paired up in the BCS Bowl.

thats almost as bad as losing to ECU or giving up 17 points to Syracuse...:doh:

[The Evil Genius]

thats almost as bad as losing to ECU or giving up 17 points to Syracuse...:doh:

Who gave up 17 to Syracuse?

Pitt, Northeastern, and Akron? Or do you mean, only scoring 17 against Syracuse while giving up 6 (aka 7 less than PSU)?

;)


Losing to ECU will forever haunt WVU and VPI this year.

[TheREALJBird]

Losing to ECU will forever haunt WVU and VPI this year.

No kidding. I sure as hell didn't see this ECU nosedive coming.

[The Evil Genius]

No kidding. I sure as hell didn't see this ECU nosedive coming.

Well to be fair, they did lose their best and most experienced LB in week 3. He seems to have been a key component of their D that they flexed in the first 2 weeks.

Still, the loss to NC State was horrible.

[Fletch_Lives59]

Sorry TEG, I was thinking of Rutgers.....:cheers: