WP: Feeling Trapped in Tight Spaces(merged)

[brandymac27]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/09/11/ST2008091103234.html
Feeling Trapped in Tight Spaces

Daylight or Not, Portis Must Carry Redskins' Offense


By Barry Svrluga (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/barry+svrluga/)
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 12, 2008; Page E01

When the first man hits him, Clinton Portis (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Clinton+Portis?tid=informline) is left to wonder what it's like for other running backs in other places. When he takes the handoff, he said he too often sees only a mass of humanity, darkness where there should be light. It wasn't like this in Denver during his first two seasons in the NFL (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/National+Football+League?tid=informline), both of them brilliant. Maybe it's not like this elsewhere.

"I really wish," Portis said, "that I could switch places."
Give Portis the ball, and the Washington Redskins (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Washington+Redskins?tid=informline) tailback will carry it. No back in the league did so more than Portis's 325 times last season, and if the Redskins' offense is to succeed, the burden falls not only on quarterback Jason Campbell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Jason+Campbell+%28Football%29?tid=informline) -- the subject of so much scrutiny as Sunday's home opener against New Orleans approaches -- but on the ox-strong legs of their 27-year-old featured performer.


"We're going to use Clinton," first-year head coach Jim Zorn (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Jim+Zorn?tid=informline) said. "We've got to."



Forget, for a moment, the ball. The other thing Portis can capably carry is the conversation. Just a week into his fifth season with the Redskins -- a season that began with 23 carries for 84 yards in a loss to the New York Giants (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/New+York+Giants?tid=informline) -- he is in full turn-on-the-spigot-and-let-it-flow mode. The numbers, he believes, don't tell the story of what he is capable of, what he means to the Redskins -- even though he owns three of the top 10 single-season rushing marks in club history. The circumstances -- injuries and churn on the offensive line, changes at quarterback and wide receiver and on the coaching staff -- do.

Click link for entire article.

[McD5]

Wow. Interesting.

"I wish I could go to a team for one week with the best offensive line, or the team with the best scheme, and switch places with their back and see how others would do in this system," Portis said, sitting on a couch the other day at Redskins Park (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Redskins+Park?tid=informline). "I get a lot of touches with nowhere to run. I could see if I got all those touches and had some lanes, but there's nine or 10 men in the box.
"You know, I'm dodging all the people in the backfield, fighting just to get back to the line of scrimmage, and people [are] looking around like, 'Oh, he just missed it.' I'm dodging people getting the handoff, because nobody's really respecting us as a passing team."

:munchout:

[DeaconBlue]

He has a good point. Nothing in the NFL happens in a vacuum. I would be interesting to see what would happen if an Opposing defense had to respect our throwing game.

[McD5]

"His decisiveness as a runner between the tackles seems a little bit hampered by the blocking schemes up front," said Sundquist, who drafted Portis and eventually traded him for all-pro cornerback Champ Bailey. "Especially under [former coach Joe] Gibbs, they weren't running a zone blocking scheme. As I watch Washington now, he gets kind of caught up in there and tends to start dancing, and he loses that lower power that he has. I just see more two- or three-yard runs out of Clinton than I ever did here. Even his bad runs here, they felt like they were four or five."

[DeaconBlue]

You know the more you type McD5 the more you type the less you have to say. Everyone with a clue(that excludes you obviously) knows that Portis is a good RB. But you continue this ignorant, belligerent campaign. Why can't you comprehent your ignorance? I mean really? Is it stupidity or mental defect? Maybe both? I'm not saying that CP is the second coming of jim brown but your take and agenda is laughable(along with your self).
Now if you wanted to have a debate about wether he was a good fit for the running style,system that we've had here then Id be open to that. I dont think your capable of that though. You hate him and its apparent to me you cant even peice a coherent reason why.

[brandymac27]

As I watch Washington now, he gets kind of caught up in there and tends to start dancing, "

I caught that too. I think what kind of bothers me about the whole thing is his attitude about the practices. That can't possibly set a good example.

[McD5]

There's a lot of meat on those bones.

This article could be interpreted in so many ways.....

Portis pointing the finger at JC.....Bugel....the offensive line...Gibbs, Saunders.

Portis' NFL scout......pointing the finger at Bugel and Gibbs.

Let's stop pointing fingers people.

[LiveStrongSkins]

facts are facts.. it is obvious that Portis is hampered here. I've never seen a running back fight so hard for so few yards. Every year we neglect the line in the draft, allow old injured players to just hop right back in position, and Jason Campbell at this point in time is a below average starting QB. I have no clue why Zorn has kept the same running scheme. It doesnt even make sense. Our line has no spacing and the running game has no tempo.

[McD5]

You know the more you type McD5 the more you type the less you have to say. Everyone with a clue(that excludes you obviously) knows that Portis is a good RB. But you continue this ignorant, belligerent campaign. Why can't you comprehent your ignorance? I mean really? Is it stupidity or mental defect? Maybe both? I'm not saying that CP is the second coming of jim brown but your take and agenda is laughable(along with your self).
Now if you wanted to have a debate about wether he was a good fit for the running style,system that we've had here then Id be open to that. I dont think your capable of that though. You hate him and its apparent to me you cant even peice a coherent reason why.

Sheesh....I didn't even say anything. Just posted what Portis, and the NFL scout who drafted him said.

I like Portis. I don't believe he has been put in the best position to utilize his talents here.....and therefore, unless something changes, do not believe he is the answer in his current role.

Maybe our blocking system needs to be changed.....maybe our FO needs to actually draft linemen.....or maybe the dollars spent on him could be better used elsewhere to improve the team.

It seems to be a lot of money tied up in one area......if we aren't going to put him in the best situation to help us.

[Saqs]

Dont like this at all......

[Hunter_R]

You know the more you type McD5 the more you type the less you have to say. Everyone with a clue(that excludes you obviously) knows that Portis is a good RB. But you continue this ignorant, belligerent campaign. Why can't you comprehent your ignorance? I mean really? Is it stupidity or mental defect? Maybe both? I'm not saying that CP is the second coming of jim brown but your take and agenda is laughable(along with your self).
Now if you wanted to have a debate about wether he was a good fit for the running style,system that we've had here then Id be open to that. I dont think your capable of that though. You hate him and its apparent to me you cant even peice a coherent reason why.
That's a mouthful considering that McD5 hardly posted 3 of his own words in this thread.

[Hiro]

It seems to be a lot of money tied up in one area......if we aren't going to put him in the best situation to help us.
I actually agree with you in this part McD5. While I believe Portis is worth the money because of the skill set he brings to the table, I also believe that all the money we're poured into him hasn't been worth it because we simply haven't given him the opportunity to use his skill sets in the best manor.

Look at all the money Seattle decided to throw at Shaun Alexander over Steve Hutchinson. I firmly believed that they should've kept Hutchinson and let go of Alexander during the '06 offseason, and it's look what's happened. Minnesota has one of the premier rushing attacks in the league, and Seattle has faltered in their efforts to replace Hutchinson. As much as I love Portis, looking back now I probably would've preferred we poured money into our offensive line from the beginning instead of pouring all that money into getting Portis.

[JimmyConway]

Like the optimism?:doh:

These types of quotes/articles convince me more that season is going to be very long UNLESS JC/Zorn get something going.

[McD5]

I actually agree with you in this part McD5. While I believe Portis is worth the money because of the skill set he brings to the table, I also believe that all the money we're poured into him hasn't been worth it because we simply haven't given him the opportunity to use his skill sets in the best manor.

Look at all the money Seattle decided to throw at Shaun Alexander over Steve Hutchinson. I firmly believed that they should've kept Hutchinson and let go of Alexander during the '06 offseason, and it's look what's happened. Minnesota has one of the premier rushing attacks in the league, and Seattle has faltered in their efforts to replace Hutchinson. As much as I love Portis, looking back now I probably would've preferred we poured money into our offensive line from the beginning instead of pouring all that money into getting Portis.


Smart post. And it isn't a bash on Portis.

Michael Turner just ran for 220 yards in his first game.....yet doesn't possess the skills that Portis has.

There is a problem there.

A gigantic problem.

We can choose to ignore it....popular around these parts.....or we can address it, and become a much better team.

If a decent RB (Turner), can look like superman behind a good offensive line......maybe resources should be used on our offensive line....instead of on a RB trying to run behind it.

You don't need the best RB in the league to win. The O-line? That's a whole different story. :cheers:

[chipwhich]

You don't need the best RB in the league to win. The O-line? That's a whole different story. :cheers:

McD5 surely you aren't insinuating that you should build a teams lines first, and their glamour positions second. Please tell me you aren't implying we should focus some on the trenches. Blasphemy. ;)

[McD5]

McD5 surely you aren't insinuating that you should build a teams lines first, and their glamour positions second. Please tell me you aren't implying we should focus some on the trenches. Blasphemy. ;)

LOL. God forbid, right?

I know Dan and Vinny are still learning....and deserve to be cut some slack.

But are they noticing these things? Are they seeing 8-10 decent RBs a week light up the league?

I hope some of this is registering with them. :2cents:

[Ray Brown]

It seems to be a lot of money tied up in one area......if we aren't going to put him in the best situation to help us.


Agree with you here as well. I also agree that the scheme doesn't fit his strengths. I still don't understand why we kept the Gibbs running scheme this year while we revamped the passing game. This offseason could have been a chance to make the running game fit Portis' strengths better. I noticed over the weekend that a lot of other teams OLine uses wider splits than ours does, stretching out the defensive line somewhat, creating larger gaps from the get go.

Hopefully the Oline can establish some continuity this year and stay injury free and help clinton on his way to a big year. While at times I'm very frustrated with the lack of big runs that we've had since he's been here, it could be worse. I believe Clinton has to work harder for his yards than any other back in the league, and for that you can't help but appreciate what he does.

[Ray Brown]

Smart post. And it isn't a bash on Portis.

Michael Turner just ran for 220 yards in his first game.....yet doesn't possess the skills that Portis has.


If a decent RB (Turner), can look like superman behind a good offensive line......maybe resources should be used on our offensive line....instead of on a RB trying to run behind it.

agree, but also consider the defense he did that against. I'm not sure how good ATL's Oline is. sure looked good last week though.

[chipwhich]

LOL. God forbid, right?

I know Dan and Vinny are still learning....and deserve to be cut some slack.

But are they noticing these things? Are they seeing 8-10 decent RBs a week light up the league?

I hope some of this is registering with them. :2cents:

The Ravens just got 86 yards out of an undrafted RB and another 64 yards out of a 2nd rounder who had more yards take away a fumble. This behind a young offensive line that performed better than our high priced one.

At some point someone has to get a clue and realize we have to build the lines. Not sure why noone gets it at this point.

[McD5]

Agree with you here as well. I also agree that the scheme doesn't fit his strengths. I still don't understand why we kept the Gibbs running scheme this year while we revamped the passing game. This offseason could have been a chance to make the running game fit Portis' strengths better.


Just a guess.....but I have to keep reminding myself that Zorn was just a qb coach. Not an offensive coordinator.

More than likely....the decision to keep the running game the same was based on two things:

1. To try to maintain some sense of "continuity" like the team preached.

2. A realization that Zorn has never even developed a gameplan before....let alone a running attack. He probably has little or no idea how to run the ball well, or how to coach RBs. His plate is full enough as it is.

I also agree with everything else in your post....including the props to Portis. He seems to be in the best shape of his Skins career imho.

:2cents:

[Ray Brown]

The Ravens just got 86 yards out of an undrafted RB and another 64 yards out of a 2nd rounder who had more yards take away a fumble. This behind a young offensive line that performed better than our high priced one.

At some point someone has to get a clue and realize we have to build the lines. Not sure why noone gets it at this point.

I was at that game. The Ravens don't have a starter on that line who has more than 4 years in the league. Pretty Impressive. The oline, ray rice, and mclean(who i think used to be a fullback?) wore down the bungals all day, taking pressure off Flacco. On the final drive in the 4th quarter they ran the ball 7-8 straight times for at least 5 or 6 yards each time.

[Shilsu]

Well that's what happens when a team's idea of addressing the offensive line is signing washed up veterans or plugging it with undrafted free agents. Heyer's done the best he can, but let's face it, him being in there means Cooley has to help him against premiere DE's... Which means Cooley can't block linebackers or defensive backs, many of which he could easily manhandle.

Our line only looked good when healthy... 2005 and 2006. But now, age is catching up.

[Fifty Gut]

The Ravens just got 86 yards out of an undrafted RB and another 64 yards out of a 2nd rounder who had more yards take away a fumble. This behind a young offensive line that performed better than our high priced one.

At some point someone has to get a clue and realize we have to build the lines. Not sure why noone gets it at this point.

The Ravens played one of the league's worst defenses in recent history, at home. You saw that and came to realize the Skins are failing as an organization? Please man. Use some perspective.

[Ray Brown]

Well that's what happens when a team's idea of addressing the offensive line is signing washed up veterans or plugging it with undrafted free agents. Heyer's done the best he can, but let's face it, him being in there means Cooley has to help him against premiere DE's... Which means Cooley can't block linebackers or defensive backs, many of which he could easily manhandle.


what it means is that cooley can't go out on passing routes and we have to keep him in to block.

[McD5]

Well that's what happens when a team's idea of addressing the offensive line is signing washed up veterans or plugging it with undrafted free agents. Heyer's done the best he can, but let's face it, him being in there means Cooley has to help him against premiere DE's... Which means Cooley can't block linebackers or defensive backs, many of which he could easily manhandle.

It also means Cooley can't get down the field to catch balls as much as we would like. :2cents:

[Shilsu]

That too, but I was just focusing on Cooley's blocking on run plays because this is an article about Portis. :D

[brandymac27]

It also means Cooley can't get down the field to catch balls as much as we would like. :2cents:

This is true. We definitely need Cooley out there catching for us as much as possible. That's one reason why the Giants game ticked me off so bad. Cooley was almost non existent in that game. I know why-because of the penalties, but still. We saw first hand what happens when you take Cooley out of the mix.

But getting back to the article, it does kind of make you wonder exactly how Portis feels in this offense. Does he really wish deep down that he was with a more productive team? In a way, you can't really blame him if he does. I really don't feel he's been able to be as productive as he could be because of the issues we have with the offense-not just this years offense, but the offense as a whole. He does indeed have a great deal of talent, and to some degree, our offensive problems really do hinder him from being able to take full advantage of his talents.

[chipwhich]

The Ravens played one of the league's worst defenses in recent history, at home. You saw that and came to realize the Skins are failing as an organization? Please man. Use some perspective.

Proof is in results.

That Ravens offensive line isn't a hall of fame unit. Add in the fact that they had a rookie QB and could stack the line of scrimmage.

What perspective do you need. If you think our o-line has done a good job creating lanes for Portis, you are not watching their play.

That wasn't the Giants defense that won the Superbowl. Don't kid yourself.

[TheREALJBird]

Proof is in results.

That Ravens offensive line isn't a hall of fame unit. Add in the fact that they had a rookie QB and could stack the line of scrimmage.

What perspective do you need. If you think our o-line has done a good job creating lanes for Portis, you are not watching their play.

That wasn't the Giants defense that won the Superbowl. Don't kid yourself.

Agreed. I can't fault Portis for what he said. I don't think this is gonna cause any negativity around the locker room either. The offense should be built around him, it doesn't look to be that way. The line has looked and played less than stellar from preseason up until now. I hope for the sake of our offense this changes soon

[STBonecrusher21]

Like I said in another thread. We need younger, more ATHLETIC OL!

[ciresolstice]

Man I love the Redskins first...and CP is my fav current player and as much as I hate to say it...he's wasted a lot of his talent on this team. On a team/line like Denver he'd most likely be a perennial pro bowler and a future hall of famer.

All of the flux and changes and running schemes that don't utilize him properly...having to dodge defenders at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield to make a 4 yard loss into a 3 yard gain. Hard tough yards down after down between the tackles. Then some things you can't really do anything about like injuries to the Oline.

I don't blame him if he thinks sometimes, what could I have done or the damage I could do in a better scheme and behind a better offensive line. You can't question his heart, determination, or commitment when he's on the field..he gives it his all. While he admits learning a lot about himself the last couple seasons, he also thinks it shaved 5-6 years off of his career...I tend to agree. I don't know how many years but all of the carries and tough yards/bad running situations almost certainly cut it shorter.

I don't agree with his practice habits ala Allen Iverson lol but he produces also like AI.

[Truant]

It's frustrating. I'm a big Portis fan, but he really isn't the same runner as before. Gibbs running him into the teeth of the defense over and over has taken away his confidence and rhythm.

Remember his first carry here?

That was our system with our players making it happen. Now when Portis breaks into the open it's like he's shocked and makes the wrong cut or decision.

It's surprising how this article has already been written. It's not even week two yet. Portis has had far worse games than the game he had against the Giants. The Giants are a good defensive team, and Portis blew a chance or two at some huge runs in that game.

Portis did well by not throwing JC under the bus and clarifying that he's glad he's here, but he's not helping the fans stay patient by losing a bit of his so early in the season.


What we can tell is that Portis has high hopes for what Zorn can do for him this season. After one week Portis is not happy with the VERY early results. It's possible that we'll regret not overhauling a running game that was not very effective (YPC) the last few years, but too early to call right now.

[Warpath11]

The running scheme was kept the same because the linemen we have are not athletic enough to run the Denver/Seattle zone blocking scheme. Until the line is addressed (in terms of personel) we cant really change fully to the Denver/Seattle system.

Due to that the coaches have asked Portis to acclimate to what the line is good at...straight ahead smashmouth blocking. It is probably easier for Portis to acclimate to the line then the line to acclimate to Portis style. The linemen can't all of the sudden become more agile and athletic whereas Portis could turn to a more power style. His production is down but of the two it is probably easier for him to adapt to the line then the line to adapt to him. I say that is open to debate but the coaches know better then me.

In addition, Portis who has never been a workout warrior and relied on his god given gifts to be better then the competition Portis needs to re-think that model as he ages. Hell even me during my college years could get away with eating crap and drinking all the time. Nowadays if I dont watch what I eat and if I dont workout I gain weight very easily.

The coaches have raved about Portis being here in the offseason (only becuase he got his $$$$), but what exactly did he do while here? Physically he looks the same so I dont know how much working out he actually did. As he ages I hope Portis realizes that he is not at the U and his body at age 27 needs some help to stay on top of the competition.

[brandymac27]

^^^^
Eventually, he's gonna have to start working out or his body is gonna give out on him. What is his issue with working out anyway? To some degree, I understand the pre-season game claim tha he doesn't want to risk injury, but training and working out during the off season I don't understand.

[SittingBull]

Portis isn't point fingers at anybody. He's just telling it how it is. Although I disagree that he should be so candid with the media for the team's sake because some of the quotes by themselves can be percieved as whining.

[Oldfan]

Clinton Portis: "You know, I'm dodging all the people in the backfield, fighting just to get back to the line of scrimmage, and people [are] looking around like, 'Oh, he just missed it.' I'm dodging people getting the handoff, because nobody's really respecting us as a passing team."

Please, everyone. Listen to what Clinton's saying here.

You can't have a successful running game unless you have a consistently successful passing game.

[thegreatbobo]

In 2006 with Ladell Betts, our O-Line was awesome. They were opening up holes that a truck could go through and LB almost got 1000 in like 7 games. So at times the running scheme was pretty good. Also, I heard pundits talking about how LB was a better fit for this offense than Portis.

[cavedude]

Danny and Vinny are still learning? What a joke. Snyder's been here 10 years...Vinny for 9 and before that was with SF. Here's what Snyder needs to learn, hire a real football and get the heck out of the way.

This is the consequence for not ignoring OL -- and for that matter DL -- for years.

Portis is a great football player and he must be frustrated with years of inconsistent OL play, questionable scheme, and ineffective passing game, but to openly wish to play somewhere else, to wonder what if he never left Denver, to call into question his teammates and coaches when he admittedly doesn't practice hard is a little difficutl to swallow.

Let's play the what if game....Skins would be better with Champ Bailey, the 2nd round pick they gave up and Betts than they are now with Portis.

[RedskinzOwnU]

It's frustrating. I'm a big Portis fan, but he really isn't the same runner as before. Gibbs running him into the teeth of the defense over and over has taken away his confidence and rhythm.

Remember his first carry here?

That was our system with our players making it happen. Now when Portis breaks into the open it's like he's shocked and makes the wrong cut or decision.

It's surprising how this article has already been written. It's not even week two yet. Portis has had far worse games than the game he had against the Giants. The Giants are a good defensive team, and Portis blew a chance or two at some huge runs in that game.

Portis did well by not throwing JC under the bus and clarifying that he's glad he's here, but he's not helping the fans stay patient by losing a bit of his so early in the season.


What we can tell is that Portis has high hopes for what Zorn can do for him this season. After one week Portis is not happy with the VERY early results. It's possible that we'll regret not overhauling a running game that was not very effective (YPC) the last few years, but too early to call right now.

I agree. He's a tough guy and a good blocker, but he's not the same back he used to be. His first carry with us was his best because he was still in his "Denver Broncos Mode." Gibbs ruined him and he'll never be the same. As much as I like him, at this point he's just another guy on the team who thinks he's better than he is. The article proves that he still thinks highly of himself, and that he believes that the team/coaching is letting him down and forcing him into bad situations. When he finally finds open room he becomes a disaster because he's not accustomed to it anymore.

[#98QBKiller]

facts are facts.. it is obvious that Portis is hampered here. I've never seen a running back fight so hard for so few yards. Every year we neglect the line in the draft, allow old injured players to just hop right back in position, and Jason Campbell at this point in time is a below average starting QB. I have no clue why Zorn has kept the same running scheme. It doesnt even make sense. Our line has no spacing and the running game has no tempo.


Agreed. I don't know of any other back that rushes for 2 and 3 yards a time. Zorn needs to dump the Gibbs system.

Is it just me or did anyone else actually find this article a little sad? :(

[FearDaSpear]

Very sad. I would love to see CP play for the Colts, Patriots or even the freakin' Cowboys for just one game.

[Brotherz]

What I take from this article has very little to do with the substance of the article itself. I mean look, everyone in this article is speaking the truth. Portis has consistently underperformed relative to what we thought he'd do here from Denver. Its a fact. Likewise, I think it is totally fair to say that the guy is a beast. He is all business on that field. He is fantastic in pass protection and busts his ass even for a one yard gain. Its also completely obvious that there is routinely a defender grabbing him (often two or more) when he is TAKING the freaking handoff. There is rarely a hole for him to run through.

Last week he had one play where there was a legitimate hole and I think he busted it for like 20 yards! The offensive line is clearly a problem along with the fact that there is no passing game to take pressure off of it or legitimately sell a play action (we got like 4 total yards on play action last week despite running on first down 16 out of 18 times!).

What I think is wild is what has started out as refreshing is now scaring me. Namely, we gotta a little "too much truth" out there in the media with this team and it starts at Zorn. Could you imagine any of these comments being made under Gibbs? What started out as a refreshing "calling out" of the rookies when they came into camp out of shape has turned into a consistent pointing of fingers by Zorn and it is obviously starting to infect the rest of the team.

I was the first one to come out and say "wow! he is refreshing!" when he said that Kelly and Thomas came into camp out of shape. I found it interesting when Zorn announced our distance and formation where Cooley was a target and indicated we had penalties that negated the cooley designed plays even though I said to myself "isn't this making scouting us easier by alerting our opponents to the down and distance and situational formation we were in when we committed those penalties?"

But now, I am less refreshed and find myself yearning for some good old "we are gonna get back to drawing board because we are all in this together. Its not any one of us. Its all of us. And we all gotta find a way to get better". Zorn seems a little too quick now to criticize a player in the media. From Jason's rythm and speed to Clinton's practice habits to the offensive line being "soft" in Carolina. Yea, its all true but now we are seeing our star running back saying things like "I wish I were on a different team for a week WITH A DIFFERENT OFFENSIVE LINE". Am I the only one who thinks that is a really bad thing to say? Portis never said stuff like that before. "There is no daylight for me." What the hell is that? "Nobody respects our passing game."? I understand its true. I don't really care that its true. These guys are getting there cue from our coach who has no problem "speaking the truth" in every microphone someone pushes in front of his face but that doesn't mean its a smart thing to do.

Ever see Andy Reid press conferences. They are literally the same exact thing every weekl. Sure, its not juicy or dramatic to say "it starts with me. I gotta do a better job. I gotta get the guys in a better position to win. We will correct what we did wrong. etc etc etc" but it also doeesn't pit your team against each other. You think that offensive line isn't gonna hear what portis said? You think the whole team doesn't hear what Zorn says? I think they need to all pull back on the honest just a bit.

[Brotherz]

I agree. He's a tough guy and a good blocker, but he's not the same back he used to be. His first carry with us was his best because he was still in his "Denver Broncos Mode." Gibbs ruined him and he'll never be the same. As much as I like him, at this point he's just another guy on the team who thinks he's better than he is. The article proves that he still thinks highly of himself, and that he believes that the team/coaching is letting him down and forcing him into bad situations. When he finally finds open room he becomes a disaster because he's not accustomed to it anymore.

I disagree. What about him is worse than it used to be? Is he slower? Is he weaker? People in the know seem to suggest he is in the best shape of his career this year. He isn't ruined. He knocked the piss out of Kiwanuka last week, broke a run for twenty yards on the only play that had a legitimate hole in front of him and wasn't the target of a pass play once! How is ANY of that his fault. He is an exceptional back and would definately be up there is LT, Westbrook etc if he had a better supporting cast. There is nothing objectively viewed that has diminished from his skills set. You think for a second that if Portis got the blocking necessary to get him to the next level of defenders he wouldn't take it the distance? Nonsense.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

This is getting old.

Portis needs to just play. Is it unfortunate that he doesn't play on a team with the best OL (calling out his teammates) or the best running scheme (calling out his coaches)? I guess, but not many players come into a perfect situation and get to spend their NFL careers in EASY mode.

The best players rise above adversity and put the team on their respective backs and succeed (much like CP did in 2005...though there were a lot of holes that year for him to run through).

Anyway, I'm sure he was taken out of context here, but it still sends a bad message to the team and coaches that he's complaining about things.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think the first thing we need to recognize is that CP has this Septemeber meltdown to the media every single season. For whatever reason, it's just something he does. And then sometime in mid-October, the line decides to run block and everything gets a little better.

However, there is no question that running the way he did for Gibbs and the way he is continuing to do for Zorn is going to take a physical toll on Clinton. He's had nearly 1200 tough carries since he has been in Washington. At some point, one would think, he is going to push the gas petal and nothing is going to happen.

[Brotherz]

^^^^
Eventually, he's gonna have to start working out or his body is gonna give out on him. What is his issue with working out anyway? To some degree, I understand the pre-season game claim tha he doesn't want to risk injury, but training and working out during the off season I don't understand.

He is in terrific shape this year. This is overblown. You ever see this guy unable to play because he is tired? You ever see this guy not making aplay because he gassed or too weak to block someone? What they are talking about is the fact that the guy treats himself like a finely tuned machine because that is what he is.

He doesn't go to ashburn park on a wednesday and ask to be pounded by corrnelius griffin and London Fletcher when he has a game on Sunday. He just doesn't work that way and HE NEVER HAS. He was the exact same way in Denver. Its not like the guy was a practice monster in Denver and came here and got lazy. He looks at practice like it is a mental exercise for him because physically, he really doesn't need to practice eluding a defender or making a cut. He needs to know where to go in the scheme. Thrash is a practice monster because Thrash wouldn't even be in this league if he wasn't. Could it be an issue with other guys on the team looking at his practice habits? Sure it could. But that really was something the brain trust that is our front office should have known BEFORE they gave away the best corner in the league for him. Clinton Portis is a terrific running back and football player. He is exactly what he is though. He is not James Thrash. He is Clinton portis. As soon as the Redskins do what Denver did and let him be Clinton Portis he will look like he did in Denver (ie. focus on getting him an offensive line - not two rookie recievers who will make a minimal impact and are apparently made of glass, build the running game around his strengths (zone and stretch blocking instead of asking him to be Riggo) and develop a long ball passing scheme so safeties can stop standing in the guard center gap waiting for the freakin handoff!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

This is overblown. You ever see this guy unable to play because he is tired

Yes, quite frequently since he's come to Washington he's taken himself out of the game. This is pretty well-documented.

:2cents:

[nace14]

There's a lot of meat on those bones.

This article could be interpreted in so many ways.....

Portis pointing the finger at JC.....Bugel....the offensive line...Gibbs, Saunders.

Portis' NFL scout......pointing the finger at Bugel and Gibbs.

Let's stop pointing fingers people.

No, the article can't be interpreted in those ways if you read the whole article, including the parts where the writer says that portis credited JC and doesn't want to go back. What you fail to acknolwedge is that the writer took his liberties in incorporating only the clips that he wanted to in making his article.

Besides, everything he said is true to a certain degree. no defensives do respect our passing game and they do approach every game with the intent to take portis out of the game and force campbell to beat them. it's been that way for 5+ years. and he's right, when defenses do force campbell, or brunell, or ramsey, or wuerful it gives the other teams a chance to win. honestly, aside from the new england game, i can't remember us really being blown out in any games over the last 3 or 4 years. fact of the matter is that if our passing offense could have put anything together over those years, portis would be considered the best back in the league right now because he would have seen more 6 and 7 men in the box instead of 8 and 9 men in there (a concept that after 3 years McD5 still is incapable of understanding).

[More Complete]

What I think is wild is what has started out as refreshing is now scaring me. Namely, we gotta a little "too much truth" out there in the media with this team and it starts at Zorn. Could you imagine any of these comments being made under Gibbs? What started out as a refreshing "calling out" of the rookies when they came into camp out of shape has turned into a consistent pointing of fingers by Zorn and it is obviously starting to infect the rest of the team.

I was the first one to come out and say "wow! he is refreshing!" when he said that Kelly and Thomas came into camp out of shape. I found it interesting when Zorn announced our distance and formation where Cooley was a target and indicated we had penalties that negated the cooley designed plays even though I said to myself "isn't this making scouting us easier by alerting our opponents to the down and distance and situational formation we were in when we committed those penalties?"

But now, I am less refreshed and find myself yearning for some good old "we are gonna get back to drawing board because we are all in this together. Its not any one of us. Its all of us. And we all gotta find a way to get better". Zorn seems a little too quick now to criticize a player in the media. From Jason's rythm and speed to Clinton's practice habits to the offensive line being "soft" in Carolina. Yea, its all true but now we are seeing our star running back saying things like "I wish I were on a different team for a week WITH A DIFFERENT OFFENSIVE LINE". Am I the only one who thinks that is a really bad thing to say? Portis never said stuff like that before. "There is no daylight for me." What the hell is that? "Nobody respects our passing game."? I understand its true. I don't really care that its true. These guys are getting there cue from our coach who has no problem "speaking the truth" in every microphone someone pushes in front of his face but that doesn't mean its a smart thing to do.



QFT :logo:

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

Smart post. And it isn't a bash on Portis.

Michael Turner just ran for 220 yards in his first game.....yet doesn't possess the skills that Portis has.

There is a problem there.

A gigantic problem.

We can choose to ignore it....popular around these parts.....or we can address it, and become a much better team.

If a decent RB (Turner), can look like superman behind a good offensive line......maybe resources should be used on our offensive line....instead of on a RB trying to run behind it.

You don't need the best RB in the league to win. The O-line? That's a whole different story. :cheers:

Turner ran against the Lions D...give me a break.

[redskns21]

As an aside, this was a very well written article by the new beat guy who is actually naming sources and writing a coherent article.

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

The Ravens just got 86 yards out of an undrafted RB and another 64 yards out of a 2nd rounder who had more yards take away a fumble. This behind a young offensive line that performed better than our high priced one.

At some point someone has to get a clue and realize we have to build the lines. Not sure why noone gets it at this point.

It was against the Bangels! C'mon people...give me a break. Dont list off running backs that had good games when they went against bad defenses. Portis went against a good defense with 8-9 guys in the box. Its amazing he got 84 yards. People sem to forget last year that he finished in the top 8 in both yardage and touchdowns with a old, banged up offensive line. In 04, he rushed for over 1300 yards with a terrible offense and a constant stacked box. In 05, he caried our offense those last 5 games to help us get into the playoffs and reached the Redskins rushing record. In 06, he got hurt and was out for more than half the year, yet still led the team in touchdowns and averaged over 4 yards a carry. GET OFF THIS MAN'S BACK! And while your at it, find me anther back in the league that blocks better than Portis...dont worry, I wont hold my breath.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It was against the Bangels! C'mon people...give me a break. Dont list off running backs that had good games when they went against bad defenses. Portis went against a good defense with 8-9 guys in the box. Its amazing he got 84 yards. People sem to forget last year that he finished in the top 8 in both yardage and touchdowns with a old, banged up offensive line. In 04, he rushed for over 1300 yards with a terrible offense and a constant stacked box. In 05, he caried our offense those last 5 games to help us get into the playoffs and reached the Redskins rushing record. In 06, he got hurt and was out for more than half the year, yet still led the team in touchdowns and averaged over 4 yards a carry. GET OFF THIS MAN'S BACK! And while your at it, find me anther back in the league that blocks better than Portis...dont worry, I wont hold my breath.

It's not really a knock on CP himself...more the strategy of spending a lot of money on the RB while neglecting to backfill the OL.

People are simply citing examples of lesser-known, cheaper RBs that are having similar or greater success (possibly due to their OL).

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

This is true. We definitely need Cooley out there catching for us as much as possible. That's one reason why the Giants game ticked me off so bad. Cooley was almost non existent in that game. I know why-because of the penalties, but still. We saw first hand what happens when you take Cooley out of the mix.

But getting back to the article, it does kind of make you wonder exactly how Portis feels in this offense. Does he really wish deep down that he was with a more productive team? In a way, you can't really blame him if he does. I really don't feel he's been able to be as productive as he could be because of the issues we have with the offense-not just this years offense, but the offense as a whole. He does indeed have a great deal of talent, and to some degree, our offensive problems really do hinder him from being able to take full advantage of his talents.

:applause:Great Post!!!

[Hunter_R]

Turner ran against the Lions D...give me a break.
With the Falcon's offense. Give me a break.

On another note. What's that say about Portis against the Lions last year?

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

Man I love the Redskins first...and CP is my fav current player and as much as I hate to say it...he's wasted a lot of his talent on this team. On a team/line like Denver he'd most likely be a perennial pro bowler and a future hall of famer.

All of the flux and changes and running schemes that don't utilize him properly...having to dodge defenders at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield to make a 4 yard loss into a 3 yard gain. Hard tough yards down after down between the tackles. Then some things you can't really do anything about like injuries to the Oline.

I don't blame him if he thinks sometimes, what could I have done or the damage I could do in a better scheme and behind a better offensive line. You can't question his heart, determination, or commitment when he's on the field..he gives it his all. While he admits learning a lot about himself the last couple seasons, he also thinks it shaved 5-6 years off of his career...I tend to agree. I don't know how many years but all of the carries and tough yards/bad running situations almost certainly cut it shorter.

I don't agree with his practice habits ala Allen Iverson lol but he produces also like AI.

Excellent post. It scares me that when they finally get the offense right...sometime down the road, Portis might be worn down or past his prime

[DirtyGunz8]

I'm looking for CP to have a great game against the Saints run D

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

With the Falcon's offense. Give me a break.

On another note. What's that say about Portis against the Lions last year?

They actually threw the ball down field. Cant stack the box when a quarterback can complete passes now can you? As for last year against the Lions, he averaged 4 yards a carry.

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

I'm looking for CP to have a great game against the Saints run D

Isnt their DT Hollis Thomas out?

[playboy1972]

In the spirit of Keith Olbermann talking about Rush Limbaugh. Clinton Portis is a "hole". If that is truly your wish, let his ass sit on the inactive list for a couple of weeks. I have never liked dude and this just cements it for me. I understand frustation, I understand losing patience but when you put your lineman and coaches out their like "they" are the only thing stopping you from being "LT" or "Petersen", you are a clown. Try breaking an arm tackle once in a while my friend.

[BuryYourDuke]

He's got a point, and CP is one of my very favorite players. But my loyalty is to the Washington Redskins. If he wants to go somewhere else, maybe he should stop signing ****ing extensions and restructures.

[Hunter_R]

They actually threw the ball down field. Cant stack the box when a quarterback can complete passes now can you? As for last year against the Lions, he averaged 4 yards a carry.
You do remember that the Lions game was one of Jason Campbell's best ever, right? It's not like there was no passing threat.

[[[ghost]]]

That's a mouthful considering that McD5 hardly posted 3 of his own words in this thread.

I would have to agree, which is fairly impressive, considering ESers generally frown upon McD's threads.

[HereComesTheDiesel44]

You do remember that the Lions game was one of Jason Campbell's best ever, right? It's not like there was no passing threat.

That was more of a reference to the Falcons game rather than the Lions game last year. The point is that CP gets no love. People seem to forget rather quickly everything that he has done here the last 4 years.

[brandymac27]

He is in terrific shape this year. This is overblown. You ever see this guy unable to play because he is tired? You ever see this guy not making aplay because he gassed or too weak to block someone? What they are talking about is the fact that the guy treats himself like a finely tuned machine because that is what he is.

He doesn't go to ashburn park on a wednesday and ask to be pounded by corrnelius griffin and London Fletcher when he has a game on Sunday. He just doesn't work that way and HE NEVER HAS. He was the exact same way in Denver. Its not like the guy was a practice monster in Denver and came here and got lazy. He looks at practice like it is a mental exercise for him because physically, he really doesn't need to practice eluding a defender or making a cut. He needs to know where to go in the scheme. Thrash is a practice monster because Thrash wouldn't even be in this league if he wasn't. Could it be an issue with other guys on the team looking at his practice habits? Sure it could. But that really was something the brain trust that is our front office should have known BEFORE they gave away the best corner in the league for him. Clinton Portis is a terrific running back and football player. He is exactly what he is though. He is not James Thrash. He is Clinton portis. As soon as the Redskins do what Denver did and let him be Clinton Portis he will look like he did in Denver (ie. focus on getting him an offensive line - not two rookie recievers who will make a minimal impact and are apparently made of glass, build the running game around his strengths (zone and stretch blocking instead of asking him to be Riggo) and develop a long ball passing scheme so safeties can stop standing in the guard center gap waiting for the freakin handoff!


First of all, let me say I agree with you for the most part. And I do believe CP is a great RB. I am not trying to take anything away from him. All I was saying was that, eventually, he might have to start working out. He's not getting any younger, neither is our O-line. CP is a leader on the offense, and he may have to step it up a notch if he wants to be playing on the same level that he was in Denver. With our O-line situation-he HAS to step it up a notch. This isn't blaming him for anything. Sorry if it came across like that b/c that wasn't my intention. I just want to see him be the best that he can be and be as productive as possible.

[JimmyConway]

Smart post. And it isn't a bash on Portis.

Michael Turner just ran for 220 yards in his first game.....yet doesn't possess the skills that Portis has.

There is a problem there.

A gigantic problem.

We can choose to ignore it....popular around these parts.....or we can address it, and become a much better team.

If a decent RB (Turner), can look like superman behind a good offensive line......maybe resources should be used on our offensive line....instead of on a RB trying to run behind it.

You don't need the best RB in the league to win. The O-line? That's a whole different story. :cheers:
I like your point McD5 but I'm going to need a better example than the Falcons. Atlanta's O-line was their main concern coming into the season. Also Turner is a good back who could be great with his ability to shift and his pure speed. They also were playing against the Detroit Lions who haven't exactly been the best run-stoppers.

Also didn't we pour plenty of money into the O-line around the time when Portis was acquired?

[tenken627]

Think about it this way. Clinton Portis is 27. If RBs fall off a little once they reach 30, Clinton Portis has about 2-3 years left of his prime, if not shorter because of the extremely high amounts of carries.

If the offense for the next 2 years is the same as the last 2, and Portis starts really breaking down after that on his road to retirement, can we truly say he was one of the great runningbacks in the game after so much early promise?

[jayl1985]

Since portis has been here the line and the scheme have been the problem as to why he doesn't have more long runs. He still has the break away speed (see portis vs landry), we just have to block better which has been the case since he has been here. It's no way portis shouldn't be top 5 in yards and yards per carry every season. I thought linemen liked to run block? I haven't seen it from the skins o-line or at least not for portis I should say.

[Shilsu]

Also didn't we pour plenty of money into the O-line around the time when Portis was acquired?

No. The only players we acquired after Portis were Casey Rabach to replace Cory Raymer and Pete Kendall to replace Derrick Dockery.

[Soup]

I want to get some opinions on how people felt about the quotes Portis said in the article expressing his thoughts about the team and himself being with another club for a week.

The article is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/11/AR2008091103216.html

And JLC's thoughts: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/09/the_portis_interview_directors.html#more

I love Portis and I agree with some of his frustrations but should he call out the players and the coach?

[Soup]

Sorry Mods didn't see the other thread could you murge please

[Soup]

I love portis to death but I don't think its a great Idea to call out the team.
He's being paid a large amount of money to be the poster boy for the redskins. Snyder has been nothing but kind to portis and this could get ugly if the skins start to lose more

[NicholSkin]

This is a very distressing article.

Clinton calls out the O-line, the Quarterback, and the scheme?!

I'm pretty sure that he knows each one of those things better than any writer, broadcaster, or fan on this board.

You can't fool they players and it sounds like CP is NOT down with this team.

[HigSkin]

When Portis was with Denver, he was primarily a cut-back runner which was how their O-line run scheme was setup. It's rarely been that way here but you can't fault the tough yards he's achieved. His tendency, which might be his downfall, is that he doesn't wait for blocks to setup. You can't blame all that on the O-line. Let's face it, there really isn't an "open" field in the NFL anymore. So, I would say to CP, stop talking and just play. You're better at it!

:2cents:

[Soup]

I'm pretty sure that he knows each one of those things better than any writer, broadcaster, or fan on this board.

You can't fool they players and it sounds like CP is NOT down with this team.

I agree but should he go out into the media where he knows this may create problems instead of just keeping it inside and talking to the coach and the players.

What was his motivation in talking to the media? Maybe he read the extreme skins thread about his stats if he stayed with denver.

[da#1skinsfan]

I love me some CP and there is a LOT of truth in what he said.

There is also truth in (and I know this is blasphemy around these parts) the fact that when CP DOES get into open space, he just doesnt have the breakaway cant-catch-me-speed he used to have and thats a fact. There I said it.

The 64yd TD on his first carry as a Skin would be a 34yd scramble to the sidelines in 2008. Reality.

[Chump Bailey]

As many state: JC and Zorn have to get the passing game going. He has to get into a rhythm. He has to get defenses guessing more and keep them somewhat honest. We need to be able to open things up otherwise nothing will change.

[mcarey032]

I read the article and I have to say that I don't blame him. He goes in and blocks hard. The line was not getting a good push and I don't care who you are, unless you are like Barry Sanders getting yards will be tough to do. It is clear to me that the FO has ignored the OL for the past couple of years. Yes we have gotten Randy Thomas and last year we got Pete Kendall, but how come they are all older players who are on the downside? I know that Gibbs time was limited and people thought he would be here, but there is no reason that we couldn't have drafted OL in the draft. I can't blame Portis one bit for feeling this way, although I don't think that I would have said it in the press, but everyone is different and I can understand why he felt that way.

[downbeat87]

but we did draft an oline men

and hes gonna be good.

[ciresolstice]

I agree he shouldn't have said it to the paper/press, yet I feel where he's coming from. Some things I appreciate an honest/candid feel or report on a thing..but some things you can think but just shouldn't say. It cant be taken out of context or seen as a pep talk to light a fire lol yet I feel him.

[HigSkin]

I like others believe he has some valid points but don't "bite the hand that feeds you". The media has a relentless way of pulling things out of players to make a story. I could see them needling him about his performance last Thursday to create some controversy.

I would say to CP, stop talking and just play. You're better at it.

[JoeGibbsRypenGClark91]

He is one of the reasons Gibbs left. Gibbs tried to get chracter guys but missed on his first trade coming back to the NFL. Portis is top 3 talent in the NFL but the NFLs version of Allen Iverson. Gibbs needed the the NFL version of Kobe Bryant . Hard working and desperate for rings. Not a guy who hates pratice and always blames other guys.

[skinsfan190]

I agree with Portis 100%. I've always thought he was a top 5 RB. Unfortunately he played in power back offense. I think if he was in Denver the last 5 years he would be reconized as the best back in the league along with LT. Hopefully Zorn's WCO can open up some lanes and holes cause it makes me sick, everytime he touches the ball and he's hit before he can make a move.

[CPAllTheWay012]

he is one of the reasons gibbs left. Gibbs tried to get chracter guys but missed on his first trade coming back to the nfl. portis is top 3 talent in the nfl but the nfls version of allen iverson. Gibbs needed the the nfl version of kobe bryant . Hard working and desperate for rings. Not a guy who hates pratice and always blames other guys.

lolololol

[darrelgreenie]

I wonder what question Portis was answering when he made those statements.
Regardless of the context Portis should know better....

[brandymac27]

He is one of the reasons Gibbs left. Gibbs tried to get chracter guys but missed on his first trade coming back to the NFL. Portis is top 3 talent in the NFL but the NFLs version of Allen Iverson. Gibbs needed the the NFL version of Kobe Bryant . Hard working and desperate for rings. Not a guy who hates pratice and always blames other guys.

I don't know about this. I always thought Gibbs had a lot of respect for CP.

[Blondie]

He is one of the reasons Gibbs left. Gibbs tried to get chracter guys but missed on his first trade coming back to the NFL. Portis is top 3 talent in the NFL but the NFLs version of Allen Iverson. Gibbs needed the the NFL version of Kobe Bryant . Hard working and desperate for rings. Not a guy who hates pratice and always blames other guys.

HUH?

OH.

I get it.

This is sarcasm.

OH.

You need to use the smiley.

Otherwise, people on here will just think you don't have a clue.

[NewCliche21]

He is one of the reasons Gibbs left. Gibbs tried to get chracter guys but missed on his first trade coming back to the NFL. Portis is top 3 talent in the NFL but the NFLs version of Allen Iverson. Gibbs needed the the NFL version of Kobe Bryant . Hard working and desperate for rings. Not a guy who hates pratice and always blames other guys.

Pittman4Two? Is that you?

[Chuong9]

the fact that when CP DOES get into open space, he just doesnt have the breakaway cant-catch-me-speed he used to have and thats a fact. There I said it.

The 64yd TD on his first carry as a Skin would be a 34yd scramble to the sidelines in 2008. Reality.

Does Portis get into open space a lot? I barely remember any runs against the Giants where there was a nice hole for Portis to work with.

[da#1skinsfan]

Does Portis get into open space a lot? I barely remember any runs against the Giants where there was a nice hole for Portis to work with.

I HATE hating on Portis but yes, look at almost every one of his 20+ yd runs the past 2 seasons...he just doesnt have that 6th gear he used to have. When he gets in the secondary he is typically dragged down by DB.

[JRAB]

I can't say as I blame Clinton. He's got a ton of ability and such a sorry excuse for an offense around him that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg of what he could do in a well rounded offense.

I must admit, the other day I was just wondering what Portis could do if he played for New England (with Brady), Dallas or Indy. He would light things up.

Portis is truly a talent... and he is being wasted for the most part.

[HLF]

Wow @ CP saying exactly what Ive been saying since game 1.

I feel bad for him

[MONTEY]

Bad tidings people.

Not good. Hell of a way to start the season. wonder if our Skins will ever again have something positive and wonderful to look forward to then conflict and chaos season after season after damn season.

I hate this kind of crap. But what can we do.

[JRAB]

Bad tidings people.

Not good. Hell of a way to start the season. wonder if our Skins will ever again have something positive and wonderful to look forward to then conflict and chaos season after season after damn season.

I hate this kind of crap. But what can we do.


What Can we do? Nothing. It's our favorite team and unless we change that... we're stuck with Snyder and Company.

It's just a damn shame what has been done to our franchise. We used to be so proud and now Gibbs can't even save it.

What is Zorn gonna do? :doh:

[HailRiggoRanger]

Portis is right on the money with his comments. Teams have stacked 8 guys in the box since he got here in 2004. He had the misfortune of playing with QBs -- Brunnel, Ramsey, and Campbell -- that other teams don't respect.

[Peregrine]

Hes right. Its not easy getting hit in the backfield so many plays. It would be nice if he could get some help.

[Warhead36]

I don't have a problem whatsoever with guys "throwing teammates under the bus" as long as they can play, and CP can play. Kobe Bryant did it. Peyton Manning did it. Never bothers me as long as you can walk the walk. Do what you gotta do CP. We're wasting a HOF talent...

[Park City Skins]

I'm not one to get into generalizations, but in a general term, C.P.'s been fighting a bit of an uphill battle. You're an opposing Defensive coordinator, you're probably going to force the Redskins to beat you with the pass. So...... :)

[fpickering]

Like I said in another thread. We need younger, more ATHLETIC OL!

Assume the team starts to focus on that now, it'll take a minimum of 2 years to build... by that time Portis will be 29 and given our past we'll have a new coach and system.

[fpickering]

This is getting old.

Portis needs to just play. Is it unfortunate that he doesn't play on a team with the best OL (calling out his teammates) or the best running scheme (calling out his coaches)?

Anyway, I'm sure he was taken out of context here, but it still sends a bad message to the team and coaches that he's complaining about things.

I think it is amazingly refreshing.

Portis has earned the right to say this. He plays balls out every play.

Maybe his statements will motivate the OL and coaches to do a better job?
One thing is for sure... it CANNOT get any worse than last week.

[fpickering]

In the spirit of Keith Olbermann talking about Rush Limbaugh. Clinton Portis is a "hole". If that is truly your wish, let his ass sit on the inactive list for a couple of weeks. I have never liked dude and this just cements it for me. I understand frustation, I understand losing patience but when you put your lineman and coaches out their like "they" are the only thing stopping you from being "LT" or "Petersen", you are a clown. Try breaking an arm tackle once in a while my friend.

olbermann is a hack.

as for the rest of your post, I really don't know how to comment except to ask if you have been watching the same Redskins I have.

[fpickering]

He is one of the reasons Gibbs left. Gibbs tried to get chracter guys but missed on his first trade coming back to the NFL. Portis is top 3 talent in the NFL but the NFLs version of Allen Iverson. Gibbs needed the the NFL version of Kobe Bryant . Hard working and desperate for rings. Not a guy who hates pratice and always blames other guys.

whoa, whoa, whoa... hold on. First of all, Gibbs loved Portis. Second, do you have any irrefutable proof whatsoever that this is why Gibbs left?

Portis is the NFL's version of Allen Iverson? That is a huge stretch. Gilbert Arenas maybe but not AI.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

this has been the talk on comcast sportsnet. I honestly don't know what to make of it.

[Soup]

Portis was the only one who played like it was not a preseason game. I still respect the guy and I can't disagree with him. I just hope he's doing this for the team so they can pick up their game and not because he hates being a redskin.

I couldn't see portis on another team, He's a redskin and I hope it stays that way for a long time.

[brandymac27]

this has been the talk on comcast sportsnet. I honestly don't know what to make of it.


Are they saying pretty much the same things or are they adding anything else to this. I don't get comcast.

[brandymac27]

whoa, whoa, whoa... hold on. First of all, Gibbs loved Portis. Second, do you have any irrefutable proof whatsoever that this is why Gibbs left?

Portis is the NFL's version of Allen Iverson? That is a huge stretch. Gilbert Arenas maybe but not AI.

I made a comment to his post saying that I thought Gibbs had a lot of respect for Portis, but he never responded.

Also, In a way, like JC, I think Portis got a raw deal here, but all he can do at this point is just make the best of the situation given. The complaining isn't really gonna do anybody any good at this point.

[brandymac27]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=258833

Zorn Is Unfazed By Portis's Comments

This article I found in the BN section posted by Bubba. Zorn doesn't seem too concerned about this, so hopefully the other guys on the team are taking his comments in stride as well.

[dieselfuel]

You guys, quit fighting amonst yourselves! I agree with the WP story about Portis. After watching him hit blue walls last week every time he got the ball, I'm beginning to think it's the offensive line that's the problem, not him. He was brave to put the blame on them and everybody else, though. Come Sunday he might find even fewer places to run. I don't know. I also think Jason Campbell ought to be benched. He's too slow, can't run, and isn't learning Zorn's offense. OR, why doesn't Zorn ditch his West Coast offense, give Campbell a break, and let him throw down the field? Naw, that makes too much sense. Don't make the QB learn a different system every stinking year! And Dan Snyder shouldn't replace the coaches every year either. The Patriots and Giants keep 'em for a few years so the players can get some kind of continuity going. But no, not here. It sure doesn't help, anyway.
I'm looking forward to Sunday's game against the Aints though. Ya never know.

[brandymac27]

You guys, quit fighting amonst yourselves! I agree with the WP story about Portis. After watching him hit blue walls last week every time he got the ball, I'm beginning to think it's the offensive line that's the problem, not him. He was brave to put the blame on them and everybody else, though. Come Sunday he might find even fewer places to run. I don't know. I also think Jason Campbell ought to be benched. He's too slow, can't run, and isn't learning Zorn's offense. OR, why doesn't Zorn ditch his West Coast offense, give Campbell a break, and let him throw down the field? Naw, that makes too much sense. Don't make the QB learn a different system every stinking year! And Dan Snyder shouldn't replace the coaches every year either. The Patriots and Giants keep 'em for a few years so the players can get some kind of continuity going. But no, not here. It sure doesn't help, anyway.
I'm looking forward to Sunday's game against the Aints though. Ya never know.

It's gonna be alright. Take a deep breath...exhale slowly. This is the nature of ES. My suggestion, find the Zen thread.

[jivelikenice]

He's bring to light a point that we all know. We need to beef up this o-line. Portis is easily a 1600 yard back behind the Dallas O-Line.

On a separate note, I don't know if it was addressed here but Rabach's subtle jabs re: Heyer are more disturbing to me. Rabach is the weakest link on the line IMO.

[scruffylookin]

The offensive line (and lack of a legit passing attack) has always been the problem since Portis got here.

It really is a testament to his talent how well he's done here given the liabilities around him.

Anyone who thinks that Tomlinson or Walter Payton in his prime could have done much more than Clinton has done with the Skins is fooling themselves.

The only back who would have been more productive is Barry Sanders himself because of his once in a lifetime talent.

[New]

CP is the man. He isnt saying anything we dont say every week. Here's to campbell finally getting comfortable and slinging it around the yard. That alone will open up the lanes cp can take advantage of. Until then an average line, with no passing threat spells the same ol same ol. CP can be the back he was in denver, but its going to take this entire offense to start to hum. Otherwise we'll be watching 16 games of last thursdays variety. HTTR!

[New]

He's bring to light a point that we all know. We need to beef up this o-line. Portis is easily a 1600 yard back behind the Dallas O-Line.

On a separate note, I don't know if it was addressed here but Rabach's subtle jabs re: Heyer are more disturbing to me. Rabach is the weakest link on the line IMO.

TOTALLY AGREE! He was getting blown off the ball play after play on Thursday night. If cant at the very least hold his ground, the entire play is doomed, no matter the play is. Center of the line is where it starts, and his play has dropped off dramatically this year. A must need going into the offseason, and I'd like to see a them go all linemen in next years draft (both sides of the ball). Wouldnt that be something!

[Long n Left]

Funny to me how so much of the arguments here center around Zorn with almost no mention of BUgel. Maybe time and the NFL has passed Boss Hog by? His schemes are known throughout the league, and haven't changed much in 20+ years.

Danny et.al. decided to go with a young energetic HC, but force fed him almost his entire staff. Would things be different if Zorn got to pick his own Oline coach? Don't know, but it's worth pondering.

Also, didn't Ladell have a tremendously successful year running behind the same line? Is it all the line's fault?

I am in full agreemnet that the Skins need to address their lines of scrimmage (both sides) but shouldn't a "quality" teammate at least shoulder some of the blame, also...even if he truly doesn't believe he should. Seems to me, that's what leaders do.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

He's bring to light a point that we all know. We need to beef up this o-line. Portis is easily a 1600 yard back behind the Dallas O-Line.

Yep--Dallas knows the secret: build from the OL. They got lucky with Romo, but they're doing the same thing they did in the 90's--build from the OL.

[Oldfan]

The offensive line (and lack of a legit passing attack) has always been the problem since Portis got here.re productive is Barry Sanders himself because of his once in a lifetime talent.

I'll agree that the lack of a grade A passing game hurt, but Jansen, Thomas, Rabach, Dockery and Samuels... an O line problem? Joe Gibbs labeled the O line as the team's strongest unit.

In my opinion, Clinton is an above average RB. Larry Brown was better.

[LiveStrongSkins]

good for clinton.. in my opinion he should have said this a long time ago. Our line is soft, injury prone, and starting to slow down. Hes a top 5 back running behind a line thats a shell of its old self.

[Aghar]

I love how the majority of the posts here focus on the OLine rather than listening to what Portis actually said here. "There is 9 and 10 men in the box. Teams just aren't respecting us as a passing team". Does that mean our OLine sucks or our passing game? :whoknows:

[Winning Season Please!]

Is CP right? YES

Should he have said it to the media? NO

Should the team/coaches be upset? NO

If they don't agree with the statements (like Zorn said he did not agree) then they need to play/sceme better. I have long felt CP is being wasted and he feels it too. I am tired of excuses from the team. Look at Atalanta. They were picked to be one of the worst teams in the league. They have a rookie QB, a new system and a back that I think is about 3/4 the back that CP is and they seem to do fine.

I know "look who they were playing." OK, then explain why we have been seeing this same crap for years now? Against all kinds of teams. West coast, west coast...I am so sick of hearing about the west coast offense. Just do your DAMN job!!:soapbox:

Ok, I am better now.:D

[HLF]

Look at Atalanta. They were picked to be one of the worst teams in the league. They have a rookie QB, a new system and a back that I think is about 3/4 the back that CP is and they seem to do fine.


Thats a bad example man, ATL played the Lions. Remember what we did to the them last season?

[Winning Season Please!]

Thats a bad example man, ATL played the Lions. Remember what we did to the them last season?

Did you even read the post?:doh:



I know "look who they were playing." OK, then explain why we have been seeing this same crap for years now? Against all kinds of teams.

The point? We need to stop making excuses: "Its just preseason", "Give JC time", "Look who we were playing" bla, bla, bla... plain and simple: You either suck or you don't, you are a good team or your not.

[HLF]

Did you even read the post?:doh:



I did and it came off like you were comparing our game against the Gay Men vs. Atlanta and Detroit. Maybe you werent, my bad.

[kentuckyskinsfan]

Clinton Portis is calling out his Offensive line and Quarterback. Three things will happen because of this: 1. Campbell will have a great game. 2. The Offense will pin back there ears and live up to what they can do. 3. Portis will have a few breakout runs for yardage. If you have been really watching, the lineman/Samuels,Thomas,Jansen in Preseason, have been making mental errors with critical errors on blocks. Something is not right with the lineman mentally, and I venture it was the hard times Coach Bugel was going through. Kendall has not had any problems because he is not as close as the others over the years. The fans don't experience the locker room or individual team meetings behind the scenes. This will be a good game and everyone will be back on track as a team.

[Winning Season Please!]

I did and it came off like you were comparing our game against the Gay Men vs. Atlanta and Detroit. Maybe you werent, my bad.

Umm....What? Yes I was compairing them and I also said I don't want to hear the excuss about who was playing who. What about when we played the jets, or the panthers or countless other teams last year that we could not run (or throw) against. My point was it is time to stop making excuses and the first thing you did was make an excuse. :rolleyes: