Politico: McCain 'amazed" by Palin Treatment

[Heisenberg]

McCain ‘amazed’ by Palin treatment
By: Andy Barr
October 22, 2008 11:36 AM EST [/FONT][/COLOR]
John McCain called out fellow Republicans who have questioned running mate Sarah Palin’s credentials Tuesday.

“What’s their problem?” McCain asked during an interview with radio host Don Imus.

“She is a governor, the most popular governor in America,” McCain said. “I think she is the most qualified of any that has run recently for vice president.”

“I’m amazed. I’m amazed. Which is better? Serve 35 years in the United States Senate and say you’ve got to divide Iraq into three different countries, or be governor of a state and a reformer and give people their tax dollars back and bring about reform in the way that your state does business? Which is better?”

Several leading conservatives, including columnists Kathleen Parker of National Review and David Brooks of the New York Times, have questioned McCain’s judgment in selecting Palin.
Parker called Palin “out of her league” in a September column urging the Alaska governor to drop out of the race. Brooks, meanwhile, called Palin “a fatal cancer to the Republican Party” during a forum hosted by The Atlantic magazine earlier this month.
McCain dismissed their criticisms and credited Palin for energizing the conservative base in a year in which the GOP faces “a stiff headwind.”

“She has ignited our crowds,” McCain said. “She has a wonderful family, a great husband, great values and she shares my worldview.”

“I’m entertained at the elitist attitude towards a person who is proven leader.”

Looking back on Palin’s early interviews with ABC’s Charles Gibson and CBS’s Katie Couric, McCain said Palin did well and derided the press for asking “gotcha” questions.

“She did a great job in those interviews. If you want to go with the gotcha questions that’s fine, that’s fine, I understand that. I get them all the time,” the Arizona senator said. “It’s easy to make fun of people and ask them gotcha questions. That’s fine. I understand how the game is played. But don’t think the American people buy that baloney.”

McCain also mocked suggestions that Palin has to face tough interviews on the Sunday shows in order to prove herself to voters.

“That’s hilarious. With thousands of people showing up at town hall meetings, I’ve never had a person show up and ask when she is going on ‘Meet the Press.’ Not one.”

With less than two weeks to go before Election Day, the Republican conceded that he is trailing Barack Obama but seemed optimistic about his chances.

“We’re doing fine. We have a lot of enthusiasm out there. We’re working hard and enjoying the rallies and having fun. I’m very confident,” he said. “I think we’re behind, but it’s within the margin of error and we’re coming up. All the indicators are that we’re coming up.”


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14820.html

[mjah]

What else can he say?

"You're right, Captain Obviouses of the media. She's a divisive, embarrassing, unqualified pandering disaster. I didn't even want her."

He's in it neck-deep and going through the motions, by his own choice. What he's saying doesn't even make sense, but his opportunity to have a respectable VP and campaign is long past.

I do feel bad for the McCain of 2000, had he been able to look forward in time and see himself in this situation. He would have been very unhappy.

[Heisenberg]

I like John McCain but blaming the media for the "gotcha" questions - such as "what newspapers do you get your information from?" or being asked to clarify foreign policy experience - blaming the media for that is kind of stretching it.

[BigMike619]

man, its stupid **** like this that makes me wish i never left the bacon club.

[Cooked Crack]

“She is a governor, the most popular governor in America,” McCain said. “I think she is the most qualified of any that has run recently for vice president.”

More qualified than Joe Lieberman?

[Jumbo]

man, its stupid **** like this that makes me wish i never left the bacon club.

You didn't just "leave the club". You're in competition for the top leading participants in these threads, and self-admittedly into "stirring the pot" just for fun. ;)

Keepin' it real. :D

[mjah]

One very simple thing that has been bugging me lately about so-called "gotcha" questions:

Am I incorrect in recalling that Biden was asked very similar questions, and had neither trouble nor complaints with them?

Wouldn't that disqualify them as "gotcha" questions, since their general ilk was asked of both candidates, they weren't politically slanted, and the only side complaining is the one that couldn't answer them?

And where was McCain after W was pop-quizzed on world leaders in 2000? That was a "gotcha" interview if there ever was one. (Was he off fornicating somewhere to create more interracial babies?)

And furthermore, what's wrong with gotcha questions anyway? Shouldn't a leader of the free world be able to handle some theoretical chump with an angle?

[Hersh]

Does anyone think Sen. McCain honestly believes any of the things he said in this particular interview? He is in a no-win situation having to answer questions about Gov. Palin, but it's his own fault for not having a long interview process before he picked his VP.

[BigMike619]

You didn't just "leave the club". You're in competition for the top leading participants in these threads, and self-admittedly into "stirring the pot" just for fun. ;)

Keepin' it real. :D
oh you dont have to keep it real with me son, i am the chairman of keepin it real...

i know, and its just as much fun for them to come and stir up pots so oh well. i do miss bacon though.

[Smoot Point Really]

Feel free to have your opinion... Joe Biden has looked mentally challenged at times compared to Palin.

[twa]

Disappointed he didn't throw her under the bus?

mjah,it's funny in the only debate your expert had more errors :silly:

The outrage over the pick from those that just loved :rolleyes:the 2000 McCain is hilarious to watch.

[MurrayH81]

The most popular govenor in America?

oh, boy....

I can just see the photoshop now.

Arnold from Terminator - Are you Sarah Palin? I'm looking for Sarah Palin.....


Kinda slaming the other Gov's out there isn't he.

Heck, 5 months ago, I wouldn't have been able to pick her out of a line-up of I-Hop waitresses, although to be fair, the same could easily be said for at least 45 other Governors.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Shares his worldview?

On what?

John McCain has been replaced by a Cyborg. I demand an explanation of what he has become.

[The Evil Genius]

I guess this was another one of those gotcha questions from the liberal media huh? YOU BETCHA!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_el_pr/palin_vice_president_s_job_1

Palin tells kids the vice president 'runs' Senate

Wed Oct 22, 10:11 am ET

WASHINGTON – Asked by a third-grader what a vice president does, Republican candidate Sarah Palin responded that the vice president is the president's "team mate" but also "runs the Senate" and "can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes."

While aimed at a typical 8-year-old, Palin's explanations oversimplify the Constitution's definition of the duties of the vice president and don't match the office's traditional role in Senate activities.

The vice president's main duty is to replace the president if the president dies, resigns, is removed from office or can no longer carry out his or her duties for other reasons. The Constitution names the vice president as the president of the Senate but allows the vice president to cast a vote only to break a tie.

The vice president, as a member of the executive branch of the government, has no official role in developing legislation or determining how it is presented to or debated by the Senate, which is part of the legislative branch. In all meaningful ways, the leader of the majority party runs the Senate.

Traditionally, the vice president appears in the Senate for ceremonial events and in case of a tie vote. Although the vice president can preside over the Senate, vice presidents have left that day-to-day chore to senators themselves. In the past, each president has determined the role of the vice president in an administration.

The subject of the vice president's duties came up as Palin sat for an interview with KUSA-TV in Denver, which has a feature called "Question from the Third Grade." The interviewer asked, "Brandon Garcia wants to know, 'What does the vice president do?'"

"That's a great question, Brandon, and a vice president has a really great job, because not only are they there to support the president's agenda, they're like the team member, the team mate to that president," Palin said.

"But also, they're in charge of the United States Senate, so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom. And it's a great job and I look forward to having that job," she said.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Ok and what makes Obama so qualified to be President Palin is going to be the VP. Biden has been given alot more leeway overall. Has anyone notice when Biden thought "Jobs" was a three letter word, or even when he thought Teddy Rosevelt was airing his fireside chats on TV when in 1919 the TV was not even invented and the Rosevelt he was refering to was FDR, and now he aknowledes that Obama is under qualified and will be tested just recently.

The media has been very bias thus far through this campgain you can sit thier and not tell me the MSNBC is not in the tank for Obama at all. On three different occasions throuhgt out the day Andrea Mitchell went on three different shows to say that when Obama refered to himself not looking like the normal president on the dollar bill that it was not racist at all. Or the media is bashing Joe the Plumber and you have news trucks outside his house you don't see any news trucks out Rev Wright's house or William Ayers house do no you don't. What about that article about Cindy McCains pain pill addiction but they don't talk about Obama's Cocaine addictions. In 1992 they made a big deal about Billy Clintons smoking Marijuana. So the point is that yes the media has bashed her chance they have gotten and it sad because is no more qualified then Obama.

[The Evil Genius]

Ok and what makes Obama so qualified to be President Palin is going to be the VP. Biden has been given alot more leeway overall. Has anyone notice when Biden thought "Jobs" was a three letter word, or even when he thought Teddy Rosevelt was airing his fireside chats on TV when in 1919 the TV was not even invented and the Rosevelt he was refering to was FDR, and now he aknowledes that Obama is under qualified and will be tested just recently.

The media has been very bias thus far through this campgain you can sit thier and not tell me the MSNBC is not in the tank for Obama at all. On three different occasions throuhgt out the day Andrea Mitchell went on three different shows to say that when Obama refered to himself not looking like the normal president on the dollar bill that it was not racist at all. Or the media is bashing Joe the Plumber and you have news trucks outside his house you don't see any news trucks out Rev Wright's house or William Ayers house do no you don't. What about that article about Cindy McCains pain pill addiction but they don't talk about Obama's Cocaine addictions. In 1992 they made a big deal about Billy Clintons smoking Marijuana. So the point is that yes the media has bashed her chance they have gotten and it sad because is no more qualified then Obama.

[brandymac27]

:rotflmao:

[Burgold]

Ok and what makes Obama so qualified to be President Palin is going to be the VP. Biden has been given alot more leeway overall. Has anyone notice when Biden thought "Jobs" was a three letter word, or even when he thought Teddy Rosevelt was airing his fireside chats on TV when in 1919 the TV was not even invented and the Rosevelt he was refering to was FDR, and now he aknowledes that Obama is under qualified and will be tested just recently.


Here's the thing. Biden and McCain have earned certain benefits of the doubt. When he said yesterday that Western Pennsylvania is an incredibly prejudiced and racist region... it was obviously a gaffe and we laughed it off as a blooper. Biden gets the same kind of pass.

Obama doesn't get that pass and he hasn't. He was grilled mercilessly on Rev. Wright, history, his platform and everything else for two years and in interviews, speeches, primaries, debates, etc. he has passed the test. People listened, read, and they bought into what he's selling.

Palin also does not get a free pass. Like Obama her resume is thin. Unlike Obama, Palin has failed quite a few of her tests. She's looked like an idiot in interviews failing to be able to answer really basic questions. She treaded water at the debate, but a lot of people saw her avoidance of questions and worse her defiance and open refusal to even give lip service to the question as a lack of knowledge and thoughtfulness. Palin needs to show a native intelligence, charisma, and ability to problem solve that overcomes a lack of traditional experience. She has failed to do that.

Obama has proven credible every time he has been tested during this election. Now, you can argue it's a mirage, but we at least know that he's solid on the facts, intelligent, and persuasive. Those aren't bad leadership qualities.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

There was a study released today that Biden gets more negative coverage than anyone, he just gets less coverage total.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Biden is Biden. And he gets filleted by the press for it. If you have paid the least bit of attention to American politics over the last 30 years you know what he is:

1. Honest but completely in the pockets of the credit card industry.
2. Very smart but prone to saying incredibly stupid things.
3. An expert on foreign policy but equally capable of causing an international incident.
4. In general, a good guy who you can trust.

If these last six weeks for the first time any of us had ever seen Joe Biden, things would be a little different. But he gets the "That's Just Joe" excuse now.

Palin...who the **** knows anything about her? All I see is a baby making machine with nice legs no intellectual curiosity and an ability to make me think that she really really wants the Rapture to occur, like, soon because she wants to talk to Jesus about some stuff.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Here's the thing. Biden and McCain have earned certain benefits of the doubt. When he said yesterday that Western Pennsylvania is an incredibly prejudiced and racist region... it was obviously a gaffe and we laughed it off as a blooper. Biden gets the same kind of pass.

Obama doesn't get that pass and he hasn't. He was grilled mercilessly on Rev. Wright, history, his platform and everything else for two years and in interviews, speeches, primaries, debates, etc. he has passed the test. People listened, read, and they bought into what he's selling.

Palin also does not get a free pass. Like Obama her resume is thin. Unlike Obama, Palin has failed quite a few of her tests. She's looked like an idiot in interviews failing to be able to answer really basic questions. She treaded water at the debate, but a lot of people saw her avoidance of questions and worse her defiance and open refusal to even give lip service to the question as a lack of knowledge and thoughtfulness. Palin needs to show a native intelligence, charisma, and ability to problem solve that overcomes a lack of traditional experience. She has failed to do that.

Obama has proven credible every time he has been tested during this election. Now, you can argue it's a mirage, but we at least know that he's solid on the facts, intelligent, and persuasive. Those aren't bad leadership qualities.

Palin is the most popular govenor of any other Govenor in any other states yes she had made some gaffes but she is the VP I think the point that I am trying to make is that she gets scrutinized more as if she is running for President then running for VP.
Obama was not grilled enough on the Rev Wright speech, Obama gave a speech about it and that was the end of the grilling. Dont get me wrong Obama is a very likeble President Nominee but their should have been alot more questions asked in regarding Rev Wright as his spirtual leader, and attending his services for 20 years but their hasn't been. You can't tell me that in the last 20 years Rev Wright has not spoken about anti-american in his sermons.

[MurrayH81]

Palin is the most popular govenor of any other Govenor in any other states yes she had made some gaffes but she is the VP I think the point that I am trying to make is that she gets scrutinized more as if she is running for President then running for VP.
Obama was not grilled enough on the Rev Wright speech, Obama gave a speech about it and that was the end of the grilling. Dont get me wrong Obama is a very likeble President Nominee but their should have been alot more questions asked in regarding Rev Wright as his spirtual leader, and attending his services for 20 years but their hasn't been. You can't tell me that in the last 20 years Rev Wright has not spoken about anti-american in his sermons.

Okay, lets take these one at a time, shall we?

Palin is not the most popular Governor. She probably is the second most recognizable Governor. Her own party has issues with her in her state.

As far as her level of scrutiny, when your running mate will not survive his office statisticly, due to his age, her capabilities become of greater interest. We know Joe Biden, so in an emergency, most feel at least somewhat comfortable there. Thus far, Sarah has given the appearance that she would be a puppet President in an emegency.

Joe the Plumber. The Obama campaign ran across him. The press brought up Joe's concerns (which if they were truly biased, would not have been aired at all, neh?). The McCain campaign and Republican radio personalities chose to accent him frequently and publicly. The press did their due diligence and found out just who the guy is. As far as has been reported, Joe didn't turn back the media horde, but accomodated them. As far as Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers, I don't know that they are speaking to the press, and unless they are willing to be, the press doesn't have much that hasn't been reported a thousand times already. As far as what people say or write over the course of their lives, scrutinize away. I suspect that when Wright gets fired up over a perceived racial injustice, strange things come out of his mouth (at least to most of us that don't have the ability to understand his context). Would I attend his church? Unlikely. Would I work with a guy who was capable, to help improve schools, regardless of his past (unless he was a comfirmed child abuser of some kind), yes.

Now go play with your little sad partisan doll, or do some actual investigation on your own to prove either of these two guys are heavily, negatively influential on Senator Obama. We will listen to factually presented, verifiable information, guaranteed.

[Monte51Coleman]

Palin is the most popular govenor of any other Govenor in any other states yes she had made some gaffes but she is the VP I think the point that I am trying to make is that she gets scrutinized more as if she is running for President then running for VP.
Obama was not grilled enough on the Rev Wright speech, Obama gave a speech about it and that was the end of the grilling. Dont get me wrong Obama is a very likeble President Nominee but their should have been alot more questions asked in regarding Rev Wright as his spirtual leader, and attending his services for 20 years but their hasn't been. You can't tell me that in the last 20 years Rev Wright has not spoken about anti-american in his sermons.

I would have loved to read this before it was edited.

[Buford]

man, its stupid **** like this that makes me wish i never left the bacon club.

Breast Milks

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Okay, lets take these one at a time, shall we?

Palin is not the most popular Governor. She probably is the second most recognizable Governor. Her own party has issues with her in her state.

As far as her level of scrutiny, when your running mate will not survive his office statisticly, due to his age, her capabilities become of greater interest. We know Joe Biden, so in an emergency, most feel at least somewhat comfortable there. Thus far, Sarah has given the appearance that she would be a puppet President in an emegency.

Joe the Plumber. The Obama campaign ran across him. The press brought up Joe's concerns (which if they were truly biased, would not have been aired at all, neh?). The McCain campaign and Republican radio personalities chose to accent him frequently and publicly. The press did their due diligence and found out just who the guy is. As far as has been reported, Joe didn't turn back the media horde, but accomodated them. As far as Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers, I don't know that they are speaking to the press, and unless they are willing to be, the press doesn't have much that hasn't been reported a thousand times already. As far as what people say or write over the course of their lives, scrutinize away. I suspect that when Wright gets fired up over a perceived racial injustice, strange things come out of his mouth (at least to most of us that don't have the ability to understand his context). Would I attend his church? Unlikely. Would I work with a guy who was capable, to help improve schools, regardless of his past (unless he was a comfirmed child abuser of some kind), yes.

Now go play with your little sad partisan doll, or do some actual investigation on your own to prove either of these two guys are heavily, negatively influential on Senator Obama. We will listen to factually presented, verifiable information, guaranteed.
My point is that non of the media is outside of William Ayers home to ask the extent of his relationship with Obama the relationship between Michelle and William Ayers wife like. What did Joe the Plumber do so wrong all he did was ask a question about Obama's Tax plan and he was getting murdered by the media.

Apparently it is ok to hob knob with known Terrorists and you are ok with that, Racichedie the former spokesman for the PLO known terrorist, and William Ayers where Obama planned his political career in his home. You might want to do your homework on Obama before you want to elect him you donkey.

[Predicto]

My point is that non of the media is outside of William Ayers home to ask the extent of his relationship with Obama the relationship between Michelle and William Ayers wife like. What did Joe the Plumber do so wrong all he did was ask a question about Obama's Tax plan and he was getting murdered by the media.

Apparently it is ok to hob knob with known Terrorists and you are ok with that, Racichedie the former spokesman for the PLO known terrorist, and William Ayers where Obama planned his political career in his home. You might want to do your homework on Obama before you want to elect him you donkey.

Hoo boy.

Welcome to the Tailgate.

[Monte51Coleman]

Did you actually call Murray a donkey?

:rotflmao:

[Cooked Crack]

Palin is the most popular govenor of any other Govenor in any other states yes she had made some gaffes but she is the VP I think the point that I am trying to make is that she gets scrutinized more as if she is running for President then running for VP.
.
She's the VP of a 71 year old man. She better get scrutinized as she is running for President.

I love this well she's the most popular governor argument. Even her stock is falling in Alaska. That most popular governor isn't the case anymore. She might be a nice governor but she's not ready for a national position.

[Heisenberg]

My point is that non of the media is outside of William Ayers home to ask the extent of his relationship with Obama the relationship between Michelle and William Ayers wife like. What did Joe the Plumber do so wrong all he did was ask a question about Obama's Tax plan and he was getting murdered by the media.

Apparently it is ok to hob knob with known Terrorists and you are ok with that, Racichedie the former spokesman for the PLO known terrorist, and William Ayers where Obama planned his political career in his home. You might want to do your homework on Obama before you want to elect him you donkey.


Check out the Liddy thread and answer some questions there and explain how that's any more acceptable.

[brandymac27]

Hoo boy.

Welcome to the Tailgate.


ROFLMAO.....Donkey?

[Yusuf06]

Keestman, paging Keestman. Palin apologist needed on aisle 5, another blind Palin apologist on aisle 5 please.

[Yusuf06]

One very simple thing that has been bugging me lately about so-called "gotcha" questions:

Am I incorrect in recalling that Biden was asked very similar questions, and had neither trouble nor complaints with them?

Wouldn't that disqualify them as "gotcha" questions, since their general ilk was asked of both candidates, they weren't politically slanted, and the only side complaining is the one that couldn't answer them?

And where was McCain after W was pop-quizzed on world leaders in 2000? That was a "gotcha" interview if there ever was one. (Was he off fornicating somewhere to create more interracial babies?)

And furthermore, what's wrong with gotcha questions anyway? Shouldn't a leader of the free world be able to handle some theoretical chump with an angle?
Agreed. Of course, McCain didn't complain about this gotcha moment. (http://www.theweek.com/article/index/89856/3/Video_Barack_Obama_meets_Joe_the_Plumber_AP_via_Yo uTube) Instead, he chose to make it the basis of his last debate performance.

Obama handled this unexpected gotcha quite well. He explained his position and pointed out why the person asking the question would actually benefit more from his policies than McCain's.

Just as in an job interview, gotcha questions are NOT something to be feared. They are opportunities to prove yourself. If you screw it up, that's your fault, not the fault of the person asking the question. Besides, how does a POTUS (or anyone else for that matter) prevent real-life from throwing gotcha moments at him?

[StillUnknown]

Did you actually call Murray a donkey?

:rotflmao:

and that is why i love the tailgate :rotflmao:

[Hubbs]

My point is that non of the media is outside of William Ayers home to ask the extent of his relationship with Obama the relationship between Michelle and William Ayers wife like. What did Joe the Plumber do so wrong all he did was ask a question about Obama's Tax plan and he was getting murdered by the media.

Apparently it is ok to hob knob with known Terrorists and you are ok with that, Racichedie the former spokesman for the PLO known terrorist, and William Ayers where Obama planned his political career in his home. You might want to do your homework on Obama before you want to elect him you donkey.

I just lost three IQ points. Thanks.

[MurrayH81]

My point is that non of the media is outside of William Ayers home to ask the extent of his relationship with Obama the relationship between Michelle and William Ayers wife like.
Pretty hard to interview him when he doesn't wish to be interviewed. That's my point. Other than fresh information, which you are invited to supply - please do, they can only repeat stuff everyone has access to already.


What did Joe the Plumber do so wrong all he did was ask a question about Obama's Tax plan and he was getting murdered by the media..

He did nothing wrong. Never said he did. He got used by the Republican party, and didn't object to being used by the media. I wouldn't want them here, but Joe fed the trolls.


Apparently it is ok to hob knob with known Terrorists and you are ok with that, Racichedie the former spokesman for the PLO known terrorist, and William Ayers where Obama planned his political career in his home..

Nope, I am not okay with people hanging out with known terrorists. I am okay with people associating freely to help educate our kids. If there is more to the story, please feel free to give us the facts. Your comments above are a jumble of disconnected strangeness, some of which has been explained previously.


You might want to do your homework on Obama before you want to elect him you donkey.

I am going to keep this simple. I am not voting for him. I am not voting for McCain. As far as homework, I have done quite a bit, thanks, and apparently much of it had more diversity than yours. As to the "donkey" comment. I am a registered Rebublican, not a Democrat (if you were in reference to a political party). If you were just trying to call me an "ass", you are certainly welcome to your opinion, although it has little to do with me.

P.S. I hope you do note that I chose to respond to you politely, even if I disagree with you. It's a good skill, really.

[mjah]

mjah,it's funny in the only debate your expert had more errors :silly:
That's what happens when you actually say specific things instead of winking at the camera and speaking in vague, glossy generalizations.

Many of Palin's greatest misses came when she tried to get specific. Pretending to score points by "correcting" Biden on the proper phraseology of "Drill Baby Drill," as if that made a damned bit of difference in the debate, was embarrassing for her.

The biggest epic fail of the night IMO was when she made up a fictional guy named McClellan, pretended he's in charge in Afghanistan, and tried to actually correct Biden on a topic when she couldn't even get the commanding general's name correct. And on top of that, Biden was actually correct on the issue in the first place. I'm not sure, but was Biden actually biting his lip at that moment to prevent himself from laughing at her?

She basically came right out at the beginning of the debate and admitted that she couldn't answer questions the way an informed debater would. Palin survived a complete press corps evisceration only because the bar was set so incredibly low for her, by virtue of the Sarah Palin Improv Comedy Hour everybody saw several days before the debate. Without a week to ascend to the level of mild embarrassment, she came across as a thoroughly incurious and bumbling fool in a real interview. I suspect that's much closer to the Real Sarah Palin than her carefully prepared performance against Biden.


The outrage over the pick from those that just loved :rolleyes:the 2000 McCain is hilarious to watch.You don't seem to believe that there are lots of people who really did admire the McCain of 8 years ago, yet won't vote for him now because of what he has let himself become.

But I'm one of them, right here in front of you, and there are plenty more like me. Time for you to start believing.

If you honestly can't see a difference between those two McCains, then God help you. It's about as subtle as a kick in the nuts.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

My point is that non of the media is outside of William Ayers home to ask the extent of his relationship with Obama the relationship between Michelle and William Ayers wife like.
Actually, the media has tried to interview William Ayers but he has refused.

[MurrayH81]

Actually, the media has tried to interview William Ayers but he has refused.

BOAWP - We have both tried to educate him on this fact. I wish you greater success than I enjoyed. Be prepared to be called names.

[brandymac27]

BOAWP - We have both tried to educate him on this fact. I wish you greater success than I enjoyed. Be prepared to be called names.

Not worth wasting any more time on.

[twa]

That's what happens when you actually say specific things instead of winking at the camera and speaking in vague, glossy generalizations.

So it is better to be specific and wrong?;)
Biden makes some great points,even when he is full of ****:rolleyes:


You don't seem to believe that there are lots of people who really did admire the McCain of 8 years ago, yet won't vote for him now because of what he has let himself become.

But I'm one of them, right here in front of you, and there are plenty more like me. Time for you to start believing.

If you honestly can't see a difference between those two McCains, then God help you. It's about as subtle as a kick in the nuts.

Oh I see a difference (or at least hope so) it is the only reason I support him now.

But you still have the Obama messiah to project your dreams on,all is not lost:)

[Special K]

Keestman, paging Keestman. Palin apologist needed on aisle 5, another blind Palin apologist on aisle 5 please.
Wow, for a 40-some y/o person who should know better, you have a serious issue of taking cheap shots at other posters not even involved in a thread. At least you actually made a jackass post this time instead of hiding behind cheap shot tags. :)

Gotta love the maturity displayed on your part. :)

P.S. If you are going to bait another poster, at least spell their name right. It's keeAstman. kthx

[Heisenberg]

Wow, for a 40-some y/o person you have a serious issue of taking cheap shots at other posters not even involved in a thread.

Gotta love the maturity displayed on your part. :)

P.S. If you are going to bait another poster, at least spell their name right. It's keeAstman. kthx


Aw, come on keeastman, you know you're everyone's favorite Sarah Palin supporter. :D

[Yusuf06]

Wow, for a 40-some y/o person who should know better, you have a serious issue of taking cheap shots at other posters not even involved in a thread. At least you actually made a jackass post this time instead of hiding behind cheap shot tags. :)

Gotta love the maturity displayed on your part. :)

P.S. If you are going to bait another poster, at least spell their name right. It's keeAstman. kthx
My apologies KeeAstman. I'll try to get your name right in the future. However, I stand by my opinion that you're a blind Palin apologist. In fact I think if Sarah admitted to being Satan himself, you'd probably reply that it would be a good thing because she'd singlehandedly revive the pitchfork industry. Just sayin'.

As for bringing it up in this thread, I wanted to make it clear who entered the tag and I knew good and darn well you'd be drawn to this thread to defend your girl like a moth to a flame.

[Special K]

Aw, come on keeastman, you know you're everyone's favorite Sarah Palin supporter. :D
Actually, there are some issues I have with her and McCain and how their campaigning has devolved into more negative mudslinging as of late.

However, that doesn't affect my opinions regarding some of the stupid crap liberals are trying to hammer her on, like funding of her family's travel, money spent on their outfits, troopergate, caribou barbie jokes, and constant belittling of a very successful woman.

Just as I don't think people should be hammering Obama on his birth certificate, his "ties" to Islam, etc.

I'm not a hater of Palin or Obama or Biden or McCain and it would be nice to see people on both ends of the political spectrum focused more on important issues rather than joining in these silly circle jerks about negligible crap. :)

[Thiebear]

The only Stronger Governor in America is Maryland. Alaska is second strongest Governor abilities.

[Heisenberg]

Actually, there are some issues I have with her and McCain and how their campaigning has devolved into more negative mudslinging as of late.

However, that doesn't affect my opinions regarding some of the stupid crap liberals are trying to hammer her on, like funding of her family's travel, money spent on their outfits, troopergate, caribou barbie jokes, and constant belittling of a very successful woman.

Just as I don't think people should be hammering Obama on his birth certificate, his "ties" to Islam, etc.

I'm not a hater of Palin or Obama or Biden or McCain and it would be nice to see people on both ends of the political spectrum focused more on important issues rather than joining in these silly circle jerks about negligible crap. :)


I was just teasing anyway. :cheers:

[Special K]

I was just teasing anyway. :cheers:
Oh, I know, but I wanted to explain :cheers:



My apologies KeeAstman. I'll try to get your name right in the future. However, I stand by my opinion that you're a blind Palin apologist. In fact I think if Sarah admitted to being Satan himself, you'd probably reply that it would be a good thing because she'd singlehandedly revive the pitchfork industry. Just sayin'.
As for bringing it up in this thread, I wanted to make it clear who entered the tag and I knew good and darn well you'd be drawn to this thread to defend your girl like a moth to a flame.
Really a shame that politics brings out the pettiness and vitriol in people like this.

[MurrayH81]

The only Stronger Governor in America is Maryland. Alaska is second strongest Governor abilities.

On what do you base this assertion?

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Pretty hard to interview him when he doesn't wish to be interviewed. That's my point. Other than fresh information, which you are invited to supply - please do, they can only repeat stuff everyone has access to already.



He did nothing wrong. Never said he did. He got used by the Republican party, and didn't object to being used by the media. I wouldn't want them here, but Joe fed the trolls.



Nope, I am not okay with people hanging out with known terrorists. I am okay with people associating freely to help educate our kids. If there is more to the story, please feel free to give us the facts. Your comments above are a jumble of disconnected strangeness, some of which has been explained previously.



I am going to keep this simple. I am not voting for him. I am not voting for McCain. As far as homework, I have done quite a bit, thanks, and apparently much of it had more diversity than yours. As to the "donkey" comment. I am a registered Rebublican, not a Democrat (if you were in reference to a political party). If you were just trying to call me an "ass", you are certainly welcome to your opinion, although it has little to do with me.

P.S. I hope you do note that I chose to respond to you politely, even if I disagree with you. It's a good skill, really.


So it is ok to have associated with people with anti-American views that you have dinner with at their home, plan your political career in their home with but its ok as long as you educate our children even though William Ayers did not regret committing crimes against America by orchestrating bombing’s on the Pentagon, and by orchestrating a killing of a judge but as long as your an educator of young Americans that’s fine. Rashid Kalidi the former spokesperson of the PLO the person who wrote Amajinjad's speech that he gave at Columbia University when he said that the “holocaust never happened and it was made up" it is ok he is a professor at Columbia University even though has a strong dislike for the Isreal.

[MurrayH81]

So it is ok to have associated with people with anti-American views that you have dinner with at their home.
Anti-American views. Let's revise the terminology. How about Anti-Authoritarian/Anti-Government views during a very turbulent time in American History. I haven't heard Bill Ayers espousing any such views , or being linked to violence, lately. If you are stuck in the 70's, I guess he is still a menace. If Senator Obama had spent time with him during that time frame, I would be much nearer to your viewpoint. Are you absolutely and unequivocably certain of two things; a) that people never change in twenty years or more, and b) that every act by our Government throughout history has been 100% honorable, legal and beyond reproach or protest? Does the term context have no meaning for you?


, plan your political career in their home.
I have seen no evidence that any planning was done in the home of Bill Ayers, but for arguments sake, let's say it was. What evidence can you bring to the table that demonstrates that this was a nefarious act, deserving of condemnation. I know he attended a party there with the person who he was replacing in State politics. Do you have more?


with but its ok as long as you educate our children.
Based on the available factual information I have access to, it's okay for someone against whom charges were dropped, to be doing his best to improve the lives of others. Can we ask for more? Do you have any additional information that suggests that what he does now is against the law or damaging to our youth?


even though William Ayers did not regret committing crimes against America by orchestrating bombing’s on the Pentagon, and by orchestrating a killing of a judge.

One bombing of the Pentagon, but I don't have anything on the Judge being killed, sorry. Were those acts of violence perpetrated okay in my view? No they were not. Does Bill Ayers deserve to be in jail? Yes he does. If he had been able to be tried, no doubt he would have been found guilty. I have no idea if he would be out by now. Sometimes holding on to bitter things from the past isn't healthy. If you were personally harmed by Bill Ayers, you have my sympathies. If you were not, perhaps you need to let this issue go, like the majority who were alive then.


but as long as your an educator of young Americans that’s fine..

Context is the king. I would support no person who was doing the things Bill Ayers did then, working with our youth then. To our current knowledge, he does not do those things now, so it's totally okay for him to be trying to help people now.


Rashid Kalidi the former spokesperson of the PLO the person who wrote Amajinjad's speech that he gave at Columbia University when he said that the “holocaust never happened and it was made up" it is ok he is a professor at Columbia University even though has a strong dislike for the Isreal.

Did I say or imply this was okay? If you want to assume I give blanket amnesty to anyone for anything, I guess that's your issue. Unlike many idealogues, I use a narrow brush, tied to the facts I have, rather than a broad brush. However, the person you talk about, about whom I know little, is free to express whatever mistaken and vile viewpoints he has, and the University is free to employ or not employ him. Would I pay to sit in his class, no. It seems that for you (based only on what you have written here, since I don't know you), the Government is always right, and that the Bill of Rights only applies to those who think like or agree with you. That my friend, is an un-American viewpoint.

If you want to hate someone (like Senator Obama), please do so honestly, and use reasons that are factual in nature. I'm okay with you doing that, as long as you are not violent. Be careful though, hate is a slippery slope.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I don't feel bad for McCain at all.

Think back to 2000, and the way that the media treated Bush. His campaign trained the media to react favorably to him, so much so that the liberal reporters that followed his campaign actually voted for him.

John/Cindy McCain, Palin, spokespeople etc have been constantly bitching about the liberal media instead of trying to use it to their advantage.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I do not hate Barrack at all I think he is a great orator and it is great to see people voting for the first time in their life because of him, but one their are to many questions about associations with these people, and two my opinion barrack does not support the troops enough. It is one thing not to support a war but it is another thing to not support the troops by only going to see the troops twice since he has been elected. Being a Veteran this is very troubling to me especially when McCain has visited the troops I think around 8 times since the War has kicked off.

“Nope, I am not okay with people hanging out with known terrorists. I am okay with people associating freely to help educate our kids.”

Yes you did imply that people who help educate children were ok even though that they were former Terrorists. My big problem with William Ayers is that he has not remorseful with his past crimes and said that he would do it all over again. I am willing to forgive if that person has repented and asked for forgiveness, and was tried for his crime but do to an error William Ayers was not able to be tried. But I will not hold that error over William Ayers, but not being sorry for what he did, and planned against this country is wrong.

[MurrayH81]

Btw, thanks for making this a more civil discussion over the last few posts, it's particularly helpful.


but one their are to many questions about associations with these people.
Questions that have been answered repeatedly by Senator Obama. You either believe that there is more to it, or you don't. If you don't, you are assuming he has lied. Again, please bring some evidence to the discussion, as I have asked repeatedly. If you cannot, the best you can do is be suspicous, and I think that's fine. If you don't want to vote for someone don't. If you are suspicious and wary of people, great.


Yes you did imply that people who help educate children were ok even though that they were former Terrorists..
Emphasis on the word former. I certainly wouldn't want an active terrorist teaching my children, but by all accounts, Bill Ayers is not active and has not been since he turned himself in. You and I are not the issue here. The people of Chicago have determined that he is a valued member of their community now, and is fit to help both they and their children. I'd postulate they know him better than either of us.


My big problem with William Ayers is that he has not remorseful with his past crimes and said that he would do it all over again. I am willing to forgive if that person has repented and asked for forgiveness, and was tried for his crime but do to an error William Ayers was not able to be tried. But I will not hold that error over William Ayers, but not being sorry for what he did, and planned against this country is wrong.

I get the idea from your comments that you are currently or formerly of military service (thanks for your service if I am correct btw). You seem to be stuck on the fact that acts planned during the Vietnam War time frame, that were against the Government, were also against the country. You and I differ on that. I don't believe they were. I also support the right to protest against Governments gone rogue. When the Government ignores the people, they do so at their own peril. I guess that's my healthy distrust for authority coming through, combined with the belief in the phrase "Of the People". As for Bill Ayers being remorseful, I don't know if he is or isn't. His actions suggest that he is intrested in helping people now. I choose to go with the actions speak louder than words school of thought. If you can't go there, that's okay.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Btw, thanks for making this a more civil discussion over the last few posts, it's particularly helpful.



Questions that have been answered repeatedly by Senator Obama. You either believe that there is more to it, or you don't. If you don't, you are assuming he has lied. Again, please bring some evidence to the discussion, as I have asked repeatedly. If you cannot, the best you can do is be suspicous, and I think that's fine. If you don't want to vote for someone don't. If you are suspicious and wary of people, great.




I get the idea from your comments that you are currently or formerly of military service (thanks for your service if I am correct btw). You seem to be stuck on the fact that acts planned during the Vietnam War time frame, that were against the Government, were also against the country. You and I differ on that. I don't believe they were. I also support the right to protest against Governments gone rogue. When the Government ignores the people, they do so at their own peril. I guess that's my healthy distrust for authority coming through, combined with the belief in the phrase "Of the People". As for Bill Ayers being remorseful, I don't know if he is or isn't. His actions suggest that he is intrested in helping people now. I choose to go with the actions speak louder than words school of thought. If you can't go there, that's okay.

I was always trying to make it civil sorry if you took it the wrong way. You are right Obama has answered but he has not been forthcoming about his extent of his relationships with Rashid Kalidi and William Ayers. Though I see where you are coming from but I really think it is weird that Michelle Obama worked at the same law firm as a William Ayers wife. He and Obama served on many boards together, and Obama wrote a comment for William Ayers book in 1997 to many connections that lead me to believe that their more then meets the eye.

Thank you btw I did serve for 6 years and was deployed to Afghanistan. I understand that actions do speak louder in words but when you say that you regret that you did not do enough, and he has not made any formal apologies it does not matter when it was it happen he committed these crimes and though he was never tried he should have at least said he was sorry orchestrating these despicable acts

[MurrayH81]

You might want to do your homework on Obama before you want to elect him you donkey.

I was always trying to make it civil sorry if you took it the wrong way.
Is there a positive way I was supposed to interpret the initial quotation?


You are right Obama has answered but he has not been forthcoming about his extent of his relationships with Rashid Kalidi and William Ayers. Though I see where you are coming from but I really think it is weird that Michelle Obama worked at the same law firm as a William Ayers wife. He and Obama served on many boards together, and Obama wrote a comment for William Ayers book in 1997 to many connections that lead me to believe that their more then meets the eye.

I think this horse has been pretty well beaten, but I'll give it another shot. If you work prominently in Charity or Education in Chicago, it would have been incredibly difficult to not run into Bill Ayers. You can believe that there is more to the story if you want to. You want to, and that's fine, but don't expect everyone else to see things that way without proof.


Thank you btw I did serve for 6 years and was deployed to Afghanistan. I understand that actions do speak louder in words but when you say that you regret that you did not do enough, and he has not made any formal apologies it does not matter when it was it happen he committed these crimes and though he was never tried he should have at least said he was sorry orchestrating these despicable acts

It doesn't matter how long ago people committed crimes?
It doesn't matter when people do good acts in relation to bad acts?
It doesn't matter if people try to do good things once they have done bad things?
Context doesn't matter?
I truly hope you don't believe that, but that is what you are (in essence) saying.
Look, nobody is asking you to snuggle up to Senator Obama or William Ayers. You don't have to like them. You don't have to believe them. What I am saying is that you need to recognize your argument is basically only about your trust issue, and is flawed in that manner, because it may not be valid for everyone else.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Is there a positive way I was supposed to interpret the initial quotation?



I think this horse has been pretty well beaten, but I'll give it another shot. If you work prominently in Charity or Education in Chicago, it would have been incredibly difficult to not run into Bill Ayers. You can believe that there is more to the story if you want to. You want to, and that's fine, but don't expect everyone else to see things that way without proof.



It doesn't matter how long ago people committed crimes?
It doesn't matter when people do good acts in relation to bad acts?
It doesn't matter if people try to do good things once they have done bad things?
Context doesn't matter?
I truly hope you don't believe that, but that is what you are (in essence) saying.
Look, nobody is asking you to snuggle up to Senator Obama or William Ayers. You don't have to like them. You don't have to believe them. What I am saying is that you need to recognize your argument is basically only about your trust issue, and is flawed in that manner, because it may not be valid for everyone else.


Ok you are right and I am wrong man

[MurrayH81]

Ok you are right and I am wrong man

(pun) You betcha! :D

No right and wrong here citizen. Just differences of opinion and some random facts.

I wish you the best :peaceout:

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Hey GibbsisGod2006, I'm curious as to where you get your information from. Like is there a newspaper, or tv show, or website, or radio show that is your go-to for this type of stuff? I ask because I'd like to check it out myself. Thanks.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Hey GibbsisGod2006, I'm curious as to where you get your information from. Like is there a newspaper, or tv show, or website, or radio show that is your go-to for this type of stuff? I ask because I'd like to check it out myself. Thanks.

I generally get alot of my information from Fox and other internet sites like the drudge report.

[Thiebear]

My apologies KeeAstman. I'll try to get your name right in the future. However, I stand by my opinion that you're a blind Palin apologist. In fact I think if Sarah admitted to being Satan himself, you'd probably reply that it would be a good thing because she'd singlehandedly revive the pitchfork industry. Just sayin'.

As for bringing it up in this thread, I wanted to make it clear who entered the tag and I knew good and darn well you'd be drawn to this thread to defend your girl like a moth to a flame.


1. She's my woman.
2. IF SHE was satan, satan wouldn't be a HE now would She?
3. You kettle need to calm down with the call outs...

[Thiebear]

On what do you base this assertion?

The power that a Governor is able to wield: It was brought up many times.
Maryland apparently has the strongest Governorship, followed by Alaska.

[Thiebear]

Biden is Biden. And he gets filleted by the press for it. If you have paid the least bit of attention to American politics over the last 30 years you know what he is:

1. Honest but completely in the pockets of the credit card industry.
You can't be both
2. Very smart but prone to saying incredibly stupid things.
you can't be both see Bush.
3. An expert on foreign policy but equally capable of causing an international incident.
you can't be both
4. In general, a good guy who you can trust.
not based on 1 above and his time in Congress

If these last six weeks for the first time any of us had ever seen Joe Biden, things would be a little different. But he gets the "That's Just Joe" excuse now.

Palin...who the **** knows anything about her? All I see is a baby making machine with nice legs no intellectual curiosity and an ability to make me think that she really really wants the Rapture to occur, like, soon because she wants to talk to Jesus about some stuff.

The Palin quote above just makes you appear to have women issues in total. You going with your 'cling to God and guns statment again" Hate on people that believe (me not being one of them)...


The people that defend Obama in one breath should not slam Palin in the next. 20 years in that Church i'm guessing Obama was trying to talk to Jesus about some stuff.. At the Wall he left a note for him..

Try and keep the Hate down while your winning! Its in bad form.

[MurrayH81]

The power that a Governor is able to wield: It was brought up many times.
Maryland apparently has the strongest Governorship, followed by Alaska.

What type of power are we talking about here? I am not dismissing your viewpoint, but I am wondering what exactly you are talking about.

It is also hard to understand how "popularity", which was the original contention I was addressing, is tied to "power". This question may seem like an attack, but I am really trying to understand your logic or the information you are trying to present.

You state that this was brought up many times. Are you talking about this thread? or a poll or what? Was the poll taken prior to her being announced on the ticket?

Maryland apparently has the strongest Governship?

I hope you see where I am coming from. I am trying to home in on an assertion that I have seen in this thread, with no actual evidence supplied. Call me Doubting Thomas, or pretend that I am from Missouri (where I lived for 5 years).