WP: Man Dies at Home After Paramedics Diagnose Acid Reflux (MET)

[PiLfan]

A 39-year-old Northeast Washington man died yesterday, a few hours after paramedics responding to his complaints of chest pains and trouble breathing told him he had acid reflux and did not take him to a hospital, family members said...


...Lolitha Givens said her son was in the living room Tuesday night when he yelled out to family members to call 911. He was on his back on the floor and said he had chest pains and was having trouble breathing.

A firetruck and ambulance from Engine 30 were dispatched to the house at 11:40 p.m., Etter said. The truck, staffed by three firefighters trained in emergency medicine and a firefighter-paramedic, arrived first.

Lolitha Givens said the firefighters asked her son what was wrong, and the emergency medical technicians who arrived by ambulance checked his vital signs and performed an electrocardiogram, the results of which they said were normal.

The EMTs asked Givens whether he had eaten or had anything to drink that evening, and he said he had eaten a burger, Givens said. They told him and his mother that he probably was suffering from acid reflux and suggested he take antacid.

"Six hours later, my son was on the floor, dead," Lolitha Givens said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/03/AR2008120303696.html?hpid=moreheadlines


:doh:

[cbeals]

speechless

[renaissance]

The thread title is kind of misleading. It makes it sound as if the 911 operator told him he had acid reflux.

Either way that sucks though.

[BigMike619]

wow. just plain wow.

[Toe Jam]

Idiots.

You cant use an EKG or ECG to diagnose a potential heart problem. It only takes about five seconds of readings. If something else is going on, it won't pick up on that.

They should have taken him to the hospital. It's not their job to diagnose. Let the doctors do that.

[Mad Mike]

That could have been me. When I had my heart attack the EMT's didn't see anything major. The difference is that they suggested I go to the hospital just to be sure. Two minutes later I was passed out in the ambulance and it was very clear what was wrong.

[PiLfan]

The thread title is kind of misleading. It makes it sound as if the 911 operator told him he had acid reflux.

Either way that sucks though.

i amended the title a bit...

[sleazye]

it will be interesting to find out what/if any role this guys insurance situation played in this mess

[Toe Jam]

it will be interesting to find out what/if any role this guys insurance situation played in this mess

I'd bet money it had something to do with it.

[DCsportsfan53]

Something in the same vane happened to a friend of mine 5 or so years ago. He had mono, went to the hospital complaining of extreme stomach pains. The gave him Vicodin and a shot of morphine. A half hour later he told them he was still in a ton of pain and didn't feel right. They told him to go home and sleep it off. He was dead by morning due to a burst spleen, 21 years old.

[Toe Jam]

Something in the same vane happened to a friend of mine 5 or so years ago. He had mono, went to the hospital complaining of extreme stomach pains. The gave him Vicodin and a shot of morphine. A half hour later he told them he was still in a ton of pain and didn't feel right. They told him to go home and sleep it off. He was dead by morning due to a burst spleen, 21 years old.

I never take the ER's word on anything.

It's off to the doctor the next day for me.

[DCsportsfan53]

I never take the ER's word on anything.

It's off to the doctor the next day for me.

Wouldn't have helped him, he got home from the hospital around 12-1 am, was dead by 4:30 am. His spleen was literally rupturing or ruptured as he was at the hospital and they never checked for it, despite a ruptured spleen being one of the common risks of mono and he's complaining about pain in his stomach and side. I will never go to Shady Grove Hospital of my own volition after that incident. He died because of their negligence, plain and simple.

[Toe Jam]

Wouldn't have helped him, he got home from the hospital around 12-1 am, was dead by 4:30 am. His spleen was literally rupturing or ruptured as he was at the hospital and they never checked for it, despite a ruptured spleen being one of the common risks of mono and he's complaining about pain in his stomach and side. I will never go to Shady Grove Hospital of my own volition after that incident. He died because of their negligence, plain and simple.

Wow man. That's horrible.

[Mad Mike]

I'd bet money it had something to do with it.


I'll take that bet.

I've had to take a few ambulance rides without insurance. It's not an issue.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Google David Rosenbaum or Cassandra Bailey in the DC area and its starting to get scary.

[Mad Mike]

Doh! I just realized what the problem was. 39 years old? I was 44 when I had my heart attack and I was young to be considered a likely candidate. I would bet big bucks that the EMTs thought a heart attack was unlikely because of his age. :doh:

[PeterMP]

NEVER listen to a paramedic. AT MOST, they are frequently college students. I've known more than one that was still in highschool.

[cbeals]

NEVER listen to a paramedic. AT MOST, they are frequently college students. I've known more than one that was still in highschool.

Wow, i never realized that. I thought they still had some pretty hard core requirements to become a paramedic....let alone just letting highschool kids in somehow

[Special K]

Wow, what a horrific tragedy, my heart goes out to that family. That is absolutely heartbreaking to lose a loved one in a tragedy that may have been prevented. I lost an aunt to this type of recklessness and that hurt and question of "what if?" never go away.

If the accout of this story in the Post is accurate, this is an unbelievable act of negligence. By law, patients must be taken to the hospital upon request. It is not the job of a paramedic, EMT, or other rescue personnel to diagnose a health issue. They are to stabilize the symptoms of a patient until they deliver the patient to the hospital upon which time qualified physicians can make a diagnosis.

It's really sad to read about this stuff and see that if more patients were fully aware of their rights some of the tragedies like these may be averted. Not much else upsets me more than unqualified people using the inherent trust most people have in health care workers and reaching beyond their level of expertise. You don't know something or are not qualified to make that decision, you refer the patient. You are bound by law to transport a patient to the hospital, you transport that patient. It's not rocket science: your ego <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< human's health.

It's stories like these that damage trust in our health care system (and rightly so in this case) and make everything a bazillion times more difficult for the vast majority of health care workers who actually can be trusted to carry out their jobs in a professional, unbiased manner.



it will be interesting to find out what/if any role this guys insurance situation played in this mess

I'd bet money it had something to do with it.
This is not a money issue at all. This is a negligence issue if the facts reported by the Post are accurate.

[Yusuf06]

From a human standpoint this story is incredibly sad. However from a professional standpoint it's absolutely pathetic. Things like this should absolutely never happen. MDs are the only ones who should be making a diagnosis, especially in a case where chest pain and shortness of breath are involved.

The possibility of making errors that could cost someone their life was the kind of thing that literally scared the crap out of me as a healthcare practitioner. However when it's a non-decision as simple as transporting a patient with chest pain for further evaluation, it really does make me angry that someone could be so callous and out and out stupid. Absolutely amazing.

I've never practiced as an EMT but I'm about 99% certain that they overstepped the boundaries of their professional capabilities and failed to meet the standard of care they're expected to provide. In other words, this guy's family is going to get a fat check. Of course that will never take the place of having their father/son present.

[The Sir]

This was an episode of ER

[LiveStrongSkins]

NEVER listen to a paramedic. AT MOST, they are frequently college students. I've known more than one that was still in highschool.

This is an ignorant post peter. I assure you that you dont know any paramedics still in high school. EMT basics and paramedics are two totally different positions within an EMS system. It takes years of training, hundreds of hours in hospitals, and national registry testing with a 30% first time pass rate. I am a paramedic and its been a gauntlet to say the least. So for you to say "at most" is showing you know nothing about the job. As in any field, you may have some that are not as good as others and they botched this scenario terribly... but dont pretend to know something when you obviously do not. I know for me personally, I am not a Doctor... I will run all the baseline testing that im allowed to and give the meds that protocols call for... but the only time I DONT transport a patient is when they absolutely refuse and are willing to sign a patient refusal.

[LiveStrongSkins]

Wow, i never realized that. I thought they still had some pretty hard core requirements to become a paramedic....let alone just letting highschool kids in somehow

I assure you... becoming a paramedic takes years. Any joe blow can take the 4 month EMT class and assist on a ambulance but it takes extensive training to be released as a paramedic. My national registry test took 13 hours.. and I had to have hundreds of t hings checked off to be able to sit. College credits, assessments, hospital hours, live deliveries, cardiac arrests, traumas. We are not doctors by any means but its not a walk in the park by any means.

[Park City Skins]

I'd say that covers that. I will say I've worked with paramedics and EMT's that were as good as they get and often diagnosed patients correctly before the Dr. did. Of course, they never did this INSTEAD of the doctor. I am curious if there are more details to all this that have not been reported. Seems to be a few things just wrong with all this. As it stands, yeah, they messed up. Been there before as well. Hope it wasn't ignorance or arrogance that motivated the decision making in this case.