Which idea is better?

[Ron78]

I am not a fan bailing out the auto dealerships. I say, if you're going to spend tax payer money on bailing out the auto dealerships, don't give it directly to the auto dealers who mismanaged their companies. Instead, give it to the tax payers in the form of a voucher that can only be spent on one of the ailing auto makers. This would add a free market element to the bail out. Consumers could choose what vehicles they want to purchase and from which dealers. Why give the money directly to these auto dealers? So they can produce more vehicles they are not going to sell in this **** economy? Give it to the consumers instead.

[spjunkies]

How can we put you in charge? I like this idea.

[Ron78]

How can we put you in charge? I like this idea.
You have to have a ****load of money to be "put in charge." Write your Congressmen.

[GibbsFactor]

That would mean the car companies would need to produce more materials going deeper in debt.

The problems isn't completely based on the fact that sales are down. The structure and strategy of Detroit is the bigger issue.

[Ron78]

That would mean the car companies would need to produce more materials going deeper in debt.

The problems isn't completely based on the fact that sales are down. The structure and strategy of Detroit is the bigger issue.
Would it? The vouchers would create all kinds of revenue for the auto dealers. Do you really think it would be better to give the money direct to the auto dealers? Who will be buying?

[dreamingwolf]

car dealers are not being bailed out

The op is smart, he should be in charge of posting smartness

[Ron78]

car dealers are not being bailed out

The op is smart, he should be in charge of posting smartness
Then what is happening exactly?

[dreamingwolf]

Then what is happening exactly?

they are bailing out car rental companies like avis, dealerships are doing fine

[Ron78]

they are bailing out car rental companies like avis, dealerships are doing fine
I'm not following your agenda. Do you work for a auto manufacturer or something? Do you stand to gain from the exorbitant auto bailout?

[dreamingwolf]

no, but I like to rent cars

[Ron78]

no, but I like to rent cars
That is fantastic. Go rent one while they are still cheap then.

[Dictator]

I am not a fan bailing out the auto dealerships. I say, if you're going to spend tax payer money on bailing out the auto dealerships, don't give it directly to the auto dealers who mismanaged their companies. Instead, give it to the tax payers in the form of a voucher that can only be spent on one of the ailing auto makers. This would add a free market element to the bail out. Consumers could choose what vehicles they want to purchase and from which dealers. Why give the money directly to these auto dealers? So they can produce more vehicles they are not going to sell in this **** economy? Give it to the consumers instead.

Ok...so then...what about people like me. I own two cars. Both american. Both less than two years old. What good would a voucher do for me? One car is completely paid for. The other we still have a monthly payment on.
I guess in theory that money would just remain unspent.

I'm taking a class in semiotics at the moment. I did a presentation last night on the American Auto makers. One of the things I noticed was the method in which they advertise. That a look at the "This is our country" ads by chevy. A 30 second ad, that they air over and over again during NFL broadcasts, shows the vehicle for a whopping 5 seconds. You don't know anything about the vehicle other than it's a chevy. Contrast that with the vehicles being advertised by Toyota, they actually show the vechile and give you more reason to buy other than "America! **** yea!".

[No_Pressure]

So they sell a bunch of cars and they're still the same companies with a failing business models who have union agreements strangling them to death. Selling a bunch of cars doesn't really help them, sales are part of it but nobody is selling very well these days. The problem with the auto makers is having to spend thousands more per vehicle than foreign competitors to pay their labor.

[Mad Mike]

Same thing I said about the mortgage bailout. give the money to the people to pay of the debt and make it a stimulus package.

I would go one step further with your idea. Make the vouchers only good for fuel efficient cars so people would replace gas guzzlers and we could lower our national fuel consumption.

[Mad Mike]

So they sell a bunch of cars and they're still the same companies with a failing business models who have union agreements strangling them to death. Selling a bunch of cars doesn't really help them, sales are part of it but nobody is selling very well these days. The problem with the auto makers is having to spend thousands more per vehicle than foreign competitors to pay their labor.

And if you hand them the money, they still have to do the same thing. :doh:

[Ron78]

Ok...so then...what about people like me. I own two cars. Both american. Both less than two years old. What good would a voucher do for me? One car is completely paid for. The other we still have a monthly payment on.
I guess in theory that money would just remain unspent.
It would either become money unspent that the tax payers would save, or you might possibly use it to put towards a new car and sell the car on which you're currently making payments to reduce your debt.

[Ron78]

So they sell a bunch of cars and they're still the same companies with a failing business models who have union agreements strangling them to death. Selling a bunch of cars doesn't really help them, sales are part of it but nobody is selling very well these days. The problem with the auto makers is having to spend thousands more per vehicle than foreign competitors to pay their labor.
That is why you want a free market element to the "bailout," so consumers let the automakers know which cars they want to buy and from which auto companies. It certainly wouldn't make more sense to give the money direct to the automakers with the failing business models.

If automakers are paying out too much to their executives and employees in general, then the automakers should still learn from the market.

[GibbsFactor]

Would it? The vouchers would create all kinds of revenue for the auto dealers. Do you really think it would be better to give the money direct to the auto dealers? Who will be buying?

Where have you been? Detroit's been in trouble for years. Buying 15billion worth in cars isn't going to save them. They still have the outrageous operating and material costs.

You propose an idea that would neither fix the manufacturers or provide a solution to the overall problem.

Facts are, bailouts are un-American, Detroit creates an inferior product, under performing businesses need to be purged from our economy. We are in this depression because we've allowed these bad companies to stay around much longer the they should have.

[Thiebear]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=5897441&postcount=23

This was said on December 5th.. I'm ready to serve....

[Dan T.]

Auto dealers want a bailout now too? Have them stand in line behind the auto manufacturers.

[Ron78]

I would go one step further with your idea. Make the vouchers only good for fuel efficient cars so people would replace gas guzzlers and we could lower our national fuel consumption.
I don't agree with that idea. It takes the free market element out of it. Let the consumers decide what they want to buy. Chances are the check won't be large enough to cover an SUV, and many people would buy economy cars anyhow. Let the market decide.

[Ron78]

Auto dealers want a bailout now too? Have them stand in line behind the auto manufacturers.
Clearly, I meant auto manufacturers. But, technically if you deal in the auto industry, you are an auto dealer. :finger:

[Ron78]

Where have you been? Detroit's been in trouble for years. Buying 15billion worth in cars isn't going to save them. They still have the outrageous operating and material costs.

You propose an idea that would neither fix the manufacturers or provide a solution to the overall problem.

Facts are, bailouts are un-American, Detroit creates an inferior product, under performing businesses need to be purged from our economy. We are in this depression because we've allowed these bad companies to stay around much longer the they should have.
We are in this "depression" because of government spending and Democrats in Congress forcing the financial industry to give loans to people who could not afford to pay them back. It's not just the auto industry that has been screwed over, everything has gone to ****. Even the NFL lost millions last year. It isn't simply the free market hurting these companies, it's bad government that created all of these problems. And America re-elected those most responsible in November.

[GibbsFactor]

We are in this depression because of government spending and Democrats in Congress forcing the financial industry to give loans to people who could not afford to pay them back. It's not just the auto industry that has been screwed over, everything has gone to ****. Even the NFL lost millions last year. It isn't simply the free market hurting these companies, it's bad government that created all of these problems.

It has nothing to do with the fact that American manufacturing can't compete, so therefore we cannot export any thing tangible.

It has nothing to do with 80% of Americans being in debt up to their eyeballs and taking on more debt.

It has nothing to do with Americans buying foreign cars and not wanting American made cars while the American car company has to try to sell cheaper cars with higher production costs.

It's all about the government forcing people into bad loans and spending too much themselves.

But....

You want the Government to continue spending wrecklessly and give out vouchers for new cars.

How many people drive in America? 200 million?

What's the average cost of a car today? 20k?

So you want the Government to spend an additional 4 trillion?

[Koolblue13]

Gimme a Jeep Mr. Gubermit.

Why don't we take off all the restrictions we have placed on the US Auto manufacturers and see how they run their companies first? How about a free and fair fight for them.

Our Gov't has lead them into the toilet, holding the reigns, they (WE) share the blame.

Let them fight on a fair battleground with other manufacturers first.

All of the engineers they have, why not give them money to start producing solar panels and wind mills.

[Ron78]

It has nothing to do with the fact that American manufacturing can't compete, so therefore we cannot export any thing tangible.
All of our industries are suffering, not just the auto industry, and that is rooted in the two things I stated above. Why is all this money suddenly being lost in the American economy? Government spending and Socialist policies instituted by Congress (a completely screwed up Congress that we the American people just re-elected to do "more of the same").


It has nothing to do with 80% of Americans being in debt up to their eyeballs and taking on more debt.
It has much to do with that as I stated above.


It has nothing to do with Americans buying foreign cars and not wanting American made cars while the American car company has to try to sell cheaper cars with higher production costs.
We weren't having such huge issues before the financial industry started to go under. Thank you, Congress.


It's all about the government forcing people into bad loans and spending too much themselves.
Which occurred why? Who would approve people of "bad loans," and why? What would they stand to gain from approving "bad loans?"


But....

You want the Government to continue spending wrecklessly and give out vouchers for new cars.
No. I wanted Democrats to leave Capitalism and the free market economy alone. Democrats prefer we have a weaker economy with more even distribution of wealth. That is why you would do something like force loan companies to give loans to people who can not pay them back. Bad legislation is a big factor in what we are experiencing right now.


How many people drive in America? 200 million?

What's the average cost of a car today? 20k?

So you want the Government to spend an additional 4 trillion?
No. Divide what would have been dished out instead. Any vouchers that go unused result in no cost to the taxpayers.