Toyota May Post First Annual Loss In 70 Years

[China]

Toyota May Post First Annual Loss In 70 Years (http://jalopnik.com/5114286/toyota-may-post-first-annual-loss-in-70-years)

According to reports, Toyota will again revise its earnings prediction to the point where second half losses will negate gains from the first half of 2008, resulting in the first yearly loss in 70 years.

Japanese news outlets are reporting Toyota will announce second half losses which will exceed the profits from the first half of the year, resulting in overall net loss for the 2008 fiscal year.

Click on the link for the full article

[DjTj]

I blame the unions.

[Dictator]

Maybe if they built cars people wanted and focused on quality it wouldn't be an issue.

[spjunkies]

I guess zero didn't save them.

[China]

I guess zero didn't save them.

So much for My Hero Zero (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPE_xB0HIbw).

[PleaseBlitz]

Lets bail them out too.

[FanboyOf91]

Cut their health benefits.

[PleaseBlitz]

Also, Toyota is posting an OPERATING loss, not an overall loss. They are still projecting a half billion dollar profit for FY2008, thanks mostly to Toyota Motor Credit.

The downturn, unfortunately, is due to the Yen being too strong compared to the dollar, not because their cars arent way better than the crap coming out of Detroit. :(

[deejaydana]

Toyota is looking to barely post a profit. They are still a fantastically well run machine but aren't immune to a global downturn in spending.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/news/ap/finance_business/2008/Dec/22/toyota_again_slashes_profit_forecast_amid_slump.ht ml

[big#44]

oh i thought it was just the american companies that were struggling.........

[kubstix]

Maybe if they built cars people wanted and focused on quality it wouldn't be an issue.

Toyota and quality? Really? There is a reason Toyota and Honda are financially stable as opposed to the American **** that is made day in and day out. Toyota posting a loss is nothing more than the economy being in the ****ter. People buy Toyota's and Honda's for the quality and don't want to deal with having there car in the garage every other month. There is a reason myself and my family won't buy American made junk that falls apart 2 miles after the warranty.

[jbooma]

Toyota and quality? Really? There is a reason Toyota and Honda are financially stable as opposed to the American **** that is made day in and day out. Toyota posting a loss is nothing more than the economy being in the ****ter. People buy Toyota's and Honda's for the quality and don't want to deal with having there car in the garage every other month. There is a reason myself and my family won't buy American made junk that falls apart 2 miles after the warranty.


If you look at the newest ratings Toyota is actually behind Ford in quality, so before you go screaming about something was correct in the 80s and 90s you may want to get your facts right :) just saying....

[kubstix]

If you look at the newest ratings Toyota is actually behind Ford in quality, so before you go screaming about something was correct in the 80s and 90s you may want to get your facts right :) just saying....

Who said I was talking about Ford? Ford isn't one of the companies who need a bailout or are on the verge of filing bankruptcy. Most of the cars produced by Ford are also not made in the US. There biggest plant is in Brazil.....just saying.

[Rdskns2000]

If you look at the newest ratings Toyota is actually behind Ford in quality, so before you go screaming about something was correct in the 80s and 90s you may want to get your facts right :) just saying....

Ford still wants a line of credit in case GM or Chrysler go bellyup.

Ford mortgaged everything they had, even the "Ford" blue oval logo. That's why they have cash on hand for 2009.

Ford let their car market shrivel. There was talk at one time of Ford even getting ahead of GM. That didn't happen. Ford does have their European cars they are bringing over in 2010 which should help them. Also, Ford is expanding their hybrid lineup.

My bet Ford is the only American automaker that makes it.

[zoony]

Toyota has the Camry and the Prius.

Their repeated fail at entry into the fullsize truck market has been laughable. Their launch of Scion has been a ridiculous use of resources and cash that didn't need to be spent. Is Scion even in business anymore? What do they make besides that clown car looking thing you always see 50 year old fat women driving?


And could they squeeze a few more SUVs into their lineup? I mean really, 20 different versions of the same vehicle isn't quite enough.

if an American company made the decisions that Toyota has over the past 5 years they would have been out long before now.

[zoony]

.

Ford let their car market shrivel. There was talk at one time of Ford even getting ahead of GM. That didn't happen. Ford does have their European cars they are bringing over in 2010 which should help them. Also, Ford is expanding their hybrid lineup.

My bet Ford is the only American automaker that makes it.



IMO Nasser will go down as one of the worst CEO's in American corporate history.

By the mid--1990s Ford had established itself as one of the premier automakers in the world. The Taurus was an enormous success. Lincoln's lineup was red-hot. The Ford Explorer was the hottest thing going, period. The F-150 surpassed the beetle as the best selling auto of all time. Their quality initiatives and lean manufacturing / six sigma / TQM techniques were churning out some of the highest quality cars in the world, and it was getting better almost every day. Their ad campaign "quality is job 1" was wildly successful. The reason? Quality WAS job 1 at Ford. Companies all over the world were studying the Ford Model for TQM success.

IIRC, Ford posted the highest profit in the history of the automobile business... and at the time, I think one of the highest profits in corporate history.

Enter Nasser. He tore the whole thing down and wiped his ass with the remains, then left. Ford still has not recovered from his reign. Damn Aussies :mad:

[BigMike619]

good..i just wish we were smart enough to put a limit to how many cars and trucks from foreign lands we imported.

if you want us to take your car then take ours.

[Rdskns2000]

IMO Nasser will go down as one of the worst CEO's in American corporate history.

By the mid--1990s Ford had established itself as one of the premier automakers in the world. The Taurus was an enormous success. Lincoln's lineup was red-hot. The Ford Explorer was the hottest thing going, period. The F-150 surpassed the beetle as the best selling auto of all time. Their quality initiatives and lean manufacturing / six sigma / TQM techniques were churning out some of the highest quality cars in the world, and it was getting better almost every day. Their ad campaign "quality is job 1" was wildly successful. The reason? Quality WAS job 1 at Ford. Companies all over the world were studying the Ford Model for TQM success.

IIRC, Ford posted the highest profit in the history of the automobile business... and at the time, I think one of the highest profits in corporate history.

Enter Nasser. He tore the whole thing down and wiped his ass with the remains, then left. Ford still has not recovered from his reign. Damn Aussies :mad:

Nasser was an Aussie> I thought he was French or something like that.

When Ford started raking in the big money in the 90's; the just ignored their car lineup and suffered for it.

The 1996 redesign of the Taurus basically was too radical and killed that car. A correction in 2000 didn't really save it. The Ford 500 wasn't a big seller; so they make minor changes and calls it the Taurus.

I think the 2010 Taurus will turn that around?

Here's a spy photo of the next Gen Taurus.

http://photos.leftlanenews.com/photos/imageresizeronfly/phpThumb.php?src=/photos/content/november2008/ford-taurus-exposed-1.jpg&w=1024


I think Ford should kill Mercury and then focus on Ford and Lincoln. Maybe they could buy Jeep after they sell Volvo?

[zoony]

That Taurus is actually pretty good looking ^^^

[Rdskns2000]

good..i just wish we were smart enough to put a limit to how many cars and trucks from foreign lands we imported.

if you want us to take your car then take ours.

They had that in the 80's; well a quota limit on foreign cars. That's a big reason why Toyota, Honda and Nissan opened factories here.

Actually, I think the law might still be there. I'm too lazy to check.

[BigMike619]

They had that in the 80's; well a quota limit on foreign cars. That's a big reason why Toyota, Honda and Nissan opened factories here.

Actually, I think the law might still be there. I'm too lazy to check.


homeland plants be damned, its still a foreign product to me...:2cents:

[Rdskns2000]

That Taurus is actually pretty good looking ^^^


So you want a Dalmatian looking car?

http://photos.leftlanenews.com/photos/imageresizeronfly/phpThumb.php?src=/photos/content/november2008/ford-taurus-exposed-2.jpg&w=1024

http://photos.leftlanenews.com/photos/imageresizeronfly/phpThumb.php?src=/photos/content/november2008/ford-taurus-exposed-3.jpg&w=-80&w=1024

[Rdskns2000]

The Detroit Auto Show is next month; so we should get a good idea of future models.

[spjunkies]

So you want a Dalmatian looking car?


That thing would be money without the spots.

[Rdskns2000]

That thing would be money without the spots.

It reminds me of one of their Lincolns.

I'll admit a little bias towards Ford, since I had previously owned 3 Fords myself and may dad has bought several Fords over the years. His office used to be beside a Ford dealership.

My dad has had:

Ford Maverick,Gran Torino, Country Squire Wagon, Granada, Taurus, Econoline, Explorer, Ranger and Lincoln Town Car.

I've had 2 Ford Escorts and one of the worst cars ever built: Tempo.

[mjah]

The 1996 redesign of the Taurus basically was too radical and killed that car. A correction in 2000 didn't really save it. The Ford 500 wasn't a big seller; so they make minor changes and calls it the Taurus.

I think the 2010 Taurus will turn that around?

I couldn't believe what they did to the Taurus in 1996. The styling looked like a foot. The oval windows and such.... Terrible. Just terrible. The Sable got more rectangular window looks, which is what the Taurus should have had in the first place -- and eventually got years later, when it was already too late. But the thing still looked like a sad catfish.

And speaking of looks, what's up with the headlights on that new Taurus? Check it out:


http://photos.leftlanenews.com/photos/imageresizeronfly/phpThumb.php?src=/photos/content/november2008/ford-taurus-exposed-2.jpg&w=1024

http://blog.cochesalaventa.com/_fotos/Ford-considers-SHO-version-for-2010-Taurus_12801_7.jpg

Long, narrow, boxy, angular headlights. Near-constant height from taper to taper. Beveled downward in front very aggressively, like a tearduct, and upward in the back, with an overall aspect ratio that sure does ring a bell, doesn't it? But it doesn't look like Ford. Doesn't look like the old Taurus, or the 500/Taurus, or the Edge. They sorta kinda look like something off the Lincoln MKS, if you don't look very closely. But nah, not really. No, these headlights look like something else entirely.

Now, that grille on the camouflaged car looks like genuine Ford -- you see variations on that design vocabulary on other Ford cars and trucks. But the headlights look like the design vocabulary of some completely different automaker.

I just can't manage to put my finger on it.

I wonder -- WHERE OH WHERE have I seen those Taurus headlights before?

Oh yeah, that's right:

http://www.dragtimes.com/images/7711-2007-Toyota-Camry.jpg

Hmm. Interesting. I guess Ford knows a winner when they see one. :D

[zoony]

The auto industry is a copycat world- has been forever. Cool spy photos, thanks for posting. I think that new Taurus looks pretty cool.

[BigMike619]

i think it looks really cool and if i wasnt dedicated to chevys i would buy one.

when i used to rent cars i would only rent the taurus. plenty of room, drove nice and as a tall guy i had plenty of room to stretch out..

[zoony]

just noticed that the middle pick is an SHO

My dad got an SHO for his company car back in '94. That car was bad-****ing ass. i used to love driving it when he'd let me :D. The Porsche 911 Targa sat in the garage.

Yamaha engine iirc- all aluminum. Very nice interior too, great sound system, lots of creature comforts. That was as nice a car as existed in '94. Less money and better than anything coming out of Germany at the time

Actually Ford isn't making anything remotely as nice anymore, sad how they've regressed

....

[Rdskns2000]

I hate it how cars never look like the show cars. Obviously the show cars are just for show but you'd think you could leave some of the awesomeness.

[zoony]

I hate it how cars never look like the show cars. Obviously the show cars are just for show but you'd think you could leave some of the awesomeness.


Concept cars always make a huge splash at the shows- all sorts of buzz and excitement.

Then 2 years later when the accountants and lawyers are done with "scrubbing" what the engineers and designers have built, it looks like every other car on the road. :jerk: Gotta be safe, has to be economical :rolleyes:

you're absolutely right. I think one day one of these carmakers is going to wise up and actually build one of the dam things the way it exists at the shows

[spjunkies]

The best thing Ford has going for it is......

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1888/mustdh1.jpg

[BigMike619]

you dont like the explorers?

[Kosher Ham]

Ford needs more than the Mustang.

They need to drop Lincoln and Mercury just for starters. Both brands are dying.

IMO, it's okay to have 20 models of one brand. You buy the cheapest model and you can not expect it to be as luxurious as the most expensive model, but you can expect QUALITY.

For the American brands to not embrace and take the helm of developing hybrid or electric vehicles after the issue in the late 70's...flat out stupid.

[PokerPacker]

Ford needs more than the Mustang.
What about the ever-popular Explorer? Or the F-150?

[Dictator]

People buy Toyota's and Honda's for the quality and don't want to deal with having there car in the garage every other month. There is a reason myself and my family won't buy American made junk that falls apart 2 miles after the warranty.

well then, care to back that up with statistics?
I've got mine ready.

[PokerPacker]

well then, care to back that up with statistics?
I've got mine ready.

Well the Aerostar we owned was running strong at 250,000+ miles. wait, I thought it should've been dead 200,000 miles ago

[Dictator]

Well the Aerostar we owned was running strong at 250,000+ miles. wait, I thought it should've been dead 200,000 miles ago

Actually, more like 214k miles ago....if it was the standard 36k mile warranty they used to offer. :)

[Kosher Ham]

What about the ever-popular Explorer? Or the F-150?

Their truck line is great...mostly.

The Explorer has been BS for years now.

The SUV line started to fail with the Escape.

The Explorer has follower suit.

[PleaseBlitz]

More copycatting from Ford.

2009 Ford Fusion:

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008_ford_fusion_sport_appearance_package.jpg

2006 Honda Accord:

http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/full/AkinaGhost969.jpg

[China]

More copycatting from Ford.



Ford is not alone in copycatting. For example here's a Mitsubishi Diamante as compared to a BMW:

http://www.autocarparts.com/images/products/mitsubishi/diamante.jpg

http://www.mikeseiler.com/images/2003-BMW-325i.jpg

[PleaseBlitz]

Ford is not alone in copycatting. For example here's a Mitsubishi Diamante as compared to a BMW:



I dont see it, other than the grill.

[big#44]

maybe im missing it but i dont see copy catting with the fusion/accord example or the mitsubishi/bmw one..........

[DjTj]

1921 Ford Model T:

http://www.sunsetclassics.com/1921-model-t/images/1921-model-t.jpg

2007 Smart Car:

http://www.cs.unm.edu/~aaron/images/europeweb/SmartCar-10.jpg

[PleaseBlitz]

2007 Mini Cooper

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/412Nfo8V5GL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

1985 Girls Rollerskate.

http://elasticwaist.com/images_entries/roller%20skates!.jpg

[big#44]

ok. now im starting to see the resemblence. this is getting funny.

[China]

Maybe it's just the angles of those photos, but apparently I'm not the only one that thinks they look similar:


Year / Model Reviewed:
2002 Mitsubishi Diamante

...

The car is very stylish and looks like a pseudo-BMW.

Link (http://www.extremeskins.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1&f=26)



We'd say the new Diamante is right on target. The new shape is smoother

and more contemporary than its slightly dowdy predecessor, a look that

resembles recent offerings from upscale BMW lines.

Link (http://www.extremeskins.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1&f=26)


Picture Gallery Mitsubishi Diamante

...


Looks almost like a BMW, only better.

Link (http://www.mitsubishi-diamante.net/gallery/)

[kubstix]

well then, care to back that up with statistics?
I've got mine ready.

Where did you get yours? I've got mine.....nice try though. JDPower is actually a website. Take a quick look at Lexus too while your there.....Actually take a look at all the American made car companies compared to anything overseas. Don't deny facts with an article your going to post which has 1 car in there entire lineup that is better than average.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand

[Dictator]

Where did you get yours? I've got mine.....nice try though. JDPower is actually a website. Take a quick look at Lexus too while your there.....Actually take a look at all the American made car companies compared to anything overseas. Don't deny facts with an article your going to post which has 1 car in there entire lineup that is better than average.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand


well...in the second link, chevy,cadillac,ford and pontiac all rank with honda.

I'll just point you here...

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=276445

[mjah]

I looked at PB's Fusion vs. Accord example and scratched my head for a second.

Then I compared everything NOT including the headlights and grille.

Holy crap, it's the same car!

Mitsubishi and Hyundai are copycat kings. But American cars are supposed to win on styling, which is why it's odd to see Ford lifting stuff from 3 year old Japanese styles. Japan's styling is supposed to be boring and lifeless, but apparently that's more attractive to American automakers than it used to be.

I liked what Ford was doing with the extra-chrome grille and boxy headlights. They should stick with that.

[master4caster]

Toyota has a football team?

[kubstix]

well...in the second link, chevy,cadillac,ford and pontiac all rank with honda.

I'll just point you here...

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=276445

Exactly. Everything is your post shows Toyota and Honda rated better than Ford/GM/Chrysler in almost every category listed? Please elaborate on where you are getting your information that American made cars have surpassed the quality of overseas because you have yet to post anything statistical stating so. The only thing you have facts for is ONE CAR in the entire ford lineup that can compete with something overseas. Listen, I'm American just like you are.....but don't deny the facts and the reality that American made cars are a pile of ****. I also didn't want to bring Ford into this conversation on the one statistical category you have proven on ONE car that can hang with a Toyota and Honda. The entire lineup of Toyota and Honda are reliable.....not just one car. And like I said before and will say again.....you buy a ford....75% chance it came overseas.

[Dictator]

The entire lineup of Toyota and Honda are reliable.....not just one car.

Not True. SCION.

As for the rest of your post...well, when you claim that all american cars are "pieces of ****", you are factually wrong. You can disagree with that, but you are still wrong.

[mardi gras skin]

My 99 Dodge Durango is running strong...after 352,000 MILES of hard driving.

But I love my Nissan Maxima, too. :)

[zoony]

Scion xB
http://www.cars-show.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/scion-xb-500.jpg


http://www.getmedriving.co.uk/UserFiles/Image/clown_car%5B1%5D.jpg



It's uncanny, really

[zoony]

Honda Ridgeline

http://www.soundoffaudio.com/images/honda-ridgeline.jpg


And its designer

http://www.topnews.in/light/files/stevie-wonder.jpg

[kubstix]

Not True. SCION.

As for the rest of your post...well, when you claim that all american cars are "pieces of ****", you are factually wrong. You can disagree with that, but you are still wrong.

I'm done arguing. It's facts and I'm sorry you can't admit that foreign cars are just plain better when every statistical category and facts in the books say so. You are trying to tell me and everyone else that American cars are better quality than overseas but yet you are blinded to the fact that GM and Chrysler are going out of business. Why is that? You are comparing Scion.....a toyota owned company that sells cars that you can low ball a dealer and get for 12,000 dollars? Find me a GM vehicle or Chrysler vehicle that you can get for 12k? You get what you pay for, unfortunately to bad that doesn't go for GM. You pay a ridiculous price for a GM/Chrysler automobile and the only thing you get is a piece of junk metal on tires.

[mjah]

Scion xB

It's uncanny, really

Interesting, though, that you have to push the Ford Bozo with your feet, Flintstone style.

Scion added an engine to their vehicle. That's pretty innovative.

[Dictator]

You are trying to tell me and everyone else that American cars are better quality than overseas but yet you are blinded to the fact that GM and Chrysler are going out of business. Why is that?

Care to point out a post where I said American cars are better? Nope. Cant fine one. What I am saying is they are not anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. I don't know why you have such disdain for American built cars.
As to why american car companies are struggling...well...for a number of reason. mostly their own fault. Outside of that, they still have to overcome antiquated biases such as your own.







You are comparing Scion.....a toyota owned company that sells cars that you can low ball a dealer and get for 12,000 dollars? Find me a GM vehicle or Chrysler vehicle that you can get for 12k?


I'm sorry. I didn't know that there were all these qualifiers. So Toyota only focuses on quality when it comes to their more expensive cars?
You know what's awesome. There are only a handfull of cars under $12k One of them is the chevy aveo. The others Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, and Kia Rio.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Toyota + Lexus = Win.

Don't forget Lexus is owned by Toyota also.

[jbooma]

For the American brands to not embrace and take the helm of developing hybrid or electric vehicles after the issue in the late 70's...flat out stupid.


If Ford could create a 30 mpg dependable hybrid Explorer then they will be back in business, but until then the only thing close are the Lexus 400's and Toyota Highlander.

[jbooma]

My 99 Dodge Durango is running strong...after 352,000 MILES of hard driving.

But I love my Nissan Maxima, too. :)

Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a 98 Ford Explorer sport with 185K miles and I thought I was driving it a lot :cool:

[zoony]

Toyota + Lexus = Win.

Don't forget Lexus is owned by Toyota also.



If I felt like I needed to spend $40k or more on an automobile, Lexus would be the last brand I would consider. JMO.

[kubstix]

Care to point out a post where I said American cars are better? Nope. Cant fine one. What I am saying is they are not anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. I don't know why you have such disdain for American built cars.
As to why american car companies are struggling...well...for a number of reason. mostly their own fault. Outside of that, they still have to overcome antiquated biases such as your own.

'm sorry. I didn't know that there were all these qualifiers. So Toyota only focuses on quality when it comes to their more expensive cars?
You know what's awesome. There are only a handfull of cars under $12k One of them is the chevy aveo. The others Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, and Kia Rio.


Ohhh so your shuffling now and acting like you didn't put down Toyota. And it's the consumers fault the American made companies are doing bad HA? Makes a whole lot of sense....Listen I said I'm done. Everything you have written in your posts fails to give anything statistical backing you up on nothing more than 'your opinion'. I also have an opinion unfortunately it's backed my facts and statistical information that you can't seem to accept. Ohhhh so your going to attack a company that has been making cars for what 5 years only and the reliability is almost equal to a GM vehicle? It is pretty pathetic the only company you can attack is Scion. Give them another 5 years and the realiability will surpass American Made junk.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

If I felt like I needed to spend $40k or more on an automobile, Lexus would be the last brand I would consider. JMO.

Wow.

It would be #1 on my list.

Mercedes and BMW consistently rank #1 and #2 on the list of luxury cars needing visits to the shop, and the parts are ridiculously overpriced.

Whats your beef with Lexus?

[zoony]

Wow.

It would be #1 on my list.

Mercedes and BMW consistently rank #1 and #2 on the list of luxury cars needing visits to the shop, and the parts are ridiculously overpriced.

Whats your beef with Lexus?



no beef. Just an extraordinarily ordinary brand. About as exciting as a Volvo. Even their sportscars make me yawn.

Plus, the douchebag they have doing the voice-overs for the commercials is terrible

but I wouldn't spend that much money on a car so I guess my opinion doesn't matter.

[jbooma]

no beef. Just an extraordinarily ordinary brand. About as exciting as a Volvo. Even their sportscars make me yawn.

Plus, the douchebag they have doing the voice-overs for the commercials is terrible

but I wouldn't spend that much money on a car so I guess my opinion doesn't matter.


The SUV they have is one of the best by far. I would also recommend taking a spin in an IS 350 now that is a sweet mobile :)

[llcamino]

People buy Toyota's and Honda's for the quality and don't want to deal with having there car in the garage every other month. There is a reason myself and my family won't buy American made junk that falls apart 2 miles after the warranty.

I know you said you were "done", but this was the original post that was quoted, where he/she asked you to back it up with stats. I have yet to see any stats saying that American cars are "in the garage every other month"...or that they "fall(s) apart 2 miles after the warranty".

We could all trade horror stories on just about any brand of car. I have always bought American cars, but once while driving cousin's Honda Civic the entire brake system failed (ruptured brake line), thank god it was a manual and I knew what I was doing. Can I conclude that ALL Honda's will lose brakes while driving, certainly not, just as you shouldn't claim that ALL "American Junk" will fall apart soon after warranty.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a car fall apart after warranty then lose the brake system.....but that's just me.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

no beef. Just an extraordinarily ordinary brand. About as exciting as a Volvo. Even their sportscars make me yawn.

Plus, the douchebag they have doing the voice-overs for the commercials is terrible

but I wouldn't spend that much money on a car so I guess my opinion doesn't matter.

I see.

They're not especially exciting, they're really made to be luxury cars.

So if that's what you're looking for, I understand.

[Dictator]

Ohhh so your shuffling now and acting like you didn't put down Toyota. And it's the consumers fault the American made companies are doing bad HA? Makes a whole lot of sense....Listen I said I'm done. Everything you have written in your posts fails to give anything statistical backing you up on nothing more than 'your opinion'. I also have an opinion unfortunately it's backed my facts and statistical information that you can't seem to accept. Ohhhh so your going to attack a company that has been making cars for what 5 years only and the reliability is almost equal to a GM vehicle? It is pretty pathetic the only company you can attack is Scion. Give them another 5 years and the realiability will surpass American Made junk.

:doh:
Do you always put words in other people mouths?
I have yet to see you show any supporting evidence to back up your claims.
I've given a number of links in my other thread that I directed you to.
If you notice in the POST YOU QUOTED, I did say the current state of the auto industry is mostly their fault.

[SnyderShrugged]

So at what point are the US Federal Government and Ray LaHood held responsible for the massive losses that they caused Toyota in error?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/08/AR2011020800540.html?hpid=topnews


How strange that right around the time where a domestic auto company bailout/takeover is underway, the Non-Unionized, market share leading Toyota motor company is suddenly bashed in every media outlet and in Congress and demonized with no evidence of wrong doing.


probably just mere coincidence I'm sure

[Mr. S]

no beef. Just an extraordinarily ordinary brand. About as exciting as a Volvo. Even their sportscars make me yawn.

Plus, the douchebag they have doing the voice-overs for the commercials is terrible

but I wouldn't spend that much money on a car so I guess my opinion doesn't matter.

Parents love their Lexus SUV, but I definitely agree with this, they are nothing to brag about. Volvo's have more character then the Japanese cars.

[mjah]

So at what point are the US Federal Government and Ray LaHood held responsible for the massive losses that they caused Toyota in error?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/08/AR2011020800540.html?hpid=topnews


How strange that right around the time where a domestic auto company bailout/takeover is underway, the Non-Unionized, market share leading Toyota motor company is suddenly bashed in every media outlet and in Congress and demonized with no evidence of wrong doing.

probably just mere coincidence I'm sure
This is one of the few times I can say, "I know a guy who knows." In this case, governmental regulatory incompetence was the biggest culprit by far for the drawn-out mess that was the Toyota investigation. But yes, there was a little dash of stick-it-to-the-Japanese paprika in the recipe, added as a late flourish in the baking process -- and it wasn't entirely coincidental that American automakers were made to look comparatively better when they needed it most.

But a notion of a truly coordinated, orchestrated effort to smear Toyota would not be accurate. That assumes far too much cooperation between governmental agencies. :)

I know quite a bit about this investigation and I'm astounded by what this joint effort with NASA did -- and DIDN'T -- look at.

[SnyderShrugged]

This is one of the few times I can say, "I know a guy who knows." In this case, governmental regulatory incompetence was the biggest culprit by far for the drawn-out mess that was the Toyota investigation. But yes, there was a little dash of stick-it-to-the-Japanese paprika in the recipe, added as a late flourish in the baking process -- and it wasn't entirely coincidental that American automakers were made to look comparatively better when they needed it most.

But a notion of a truly coordinated, orchestrated effort to smear Toyota would not be accurate. That assumes far too much cooperation between governmental agencies. :)

I know quite a bit about this investigation and I'm astounded by what this joint effort with NASA did -- and DIDN'T -- look at.

I feel bad for toyota investors, employees and customers. This was an attack on them, plain and simple. No wrongdoing has been found in a few investigations, yet somehow the feds and LaHood specifically have gotten away with libel in my opinion.

Think of the losses based on literally nothing. It's gotta be in the tens of billions at least.

But I bet there isnt even an "We are sorry for what we did to you wrongly" announcement from anyone at the federal level.

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 10:47 AM ----------

am I the only one who feels this way?

[mjah]

I feel bad for toyota investors, employees and customers. This was an attack on them, plain and simple. No wrongdoing has been found in a few investigations, yet somehow the feds and LaHood specifically have gotten away with libel in my opinion.

Think of the losses based on literally nothing. It's gotta be in the tens of billions at least.

But I bet there isnt even an "We are sorry for what we did to you wrongly" announcement from anyone at the federal level.
To be fair, it's not "nothing" and there certainly is "wrongdoing." Toyota had some actual problems and it's fair to say they sat on them. The problems NASA looked for never materialized, but the actual, demonstrable (limited) problems Toyota vehicles had weren't made up.

The screwy part came to pass when Toyota vehicles' actual problems were blown WAY out of proportion by the government investigation and runaway ignorant media coverage, each of which allowed the other to grow in prominence. Suddenly, every single "my Toyota just took off" complaint from every confused idiot in the USA was supposedly attributable to some secret lurking gremlin in Toyota vehicles.

Sudden acceleration is the go-to boogeyman every single time some dolt presses the wrong pedal in their car, hitting the gas when they think they're on the brake. There have been "runaway car" scares in the past, but virtually none were ever substantiated. It's essentially ALWAYS human error. These days though, with electronics and hybrids, to the layman it appears that there's more opportunity for some new mechanical or electronic problem to crop up somewhere in the car and cause it to go all Carrie on its driver.

So when Toyota had some actual (very limited) accelerator problems, ignorant coverage aided by the government's incompetent and irresponsible decision to pursue airy-fairy dead end theories for months made it seem like the problems were widespread and numerically large. They weren't.

That's a far cry from being about "literally nothing" though. The original problems themselves certainly were not invented out of thin air. There were actual problems -- stupid, simple problems having nothing to do with EM radiation or hybrid technology -- and a small number of people died as a consequence of those actual problems.