I think there are several schematic issues with our defense.

[SMOSS89]

Coach Blache certainly knows how to run a defense. The stats don't like. He knows what he is doing. But it's not merely talent that is stopping this defense from making that jump from what we are now to let's say....the Steelers or Ravens.


It's starts with technique. The coaches are preaching run stopping, gap plugging techniques to the D line, and in a way that is almost going overboard. Because we can stop the run just fine, but so can the elite defenses. I understand Blache really wants to make the QB beat them, but there will be times when we go up against elite QBs and his scheme will fall apart because QBs will take what Blache gives them in a heartbeat.

You see, it seems like our defensive philosophy is "let's play our basic defense first 2 downs, hope they throw underneath and we make the tackle, and on 3rd down THEN we get 'creative'". It is this philosophy that is in stark contrast to Coach Williams'. Williams would build more unique game plans (such as our Minnesota game last year) and mix our coverages very very well. He was not afraid to blitz early and often, and that's what generated more pressure.

The prime case of this was the use of Jason Taylor. Do you really think he was a bust? I'm not saying he was the same guy of 2006 but I think he was very much misused this year. In addition to playing him on the opposite side, Blache made sure he played his run technique better than his apss rush technique. By the time he was healthy, it didn't matter because he was being asked to do things he didn't wanna do because he was not as good at it. He needed to be put on the opposite side and just let him do his thing on the pass rush. Another example is our DT's who simply can just plug gaps but can't get good push. Well, I think some of that is on the coaches because their habit tends to be to occupy blockers so Fletch can make a tackle. An NFL DT should have enough of a diversified skillset such that they can at least be coached to get good push a little better than our guys are getting now. But hey, it could also be talent, who knows.

Point is, the good teams know how to beat us. Elite QB's will always find their man no matter how good coverage is because the good QB's can beat good coverage with great throws. They can also attack us on early downs so they don't have to see our crappy blitzes on 3rd down. Since we don't run many combo coverages (outside of our man-zone coverage where Laron takes deep and CR/SS takes their man), it's pretty easy to read.

Now, to their credit, the Skins have done an excellent job of executing extremely well. They make the sure tackle, they wrap up, they don't get beat deep a lot, and they force QB's to go underneath. The only problem is we don't gamble enough so our guys have to play with no margin of error most of the time. For instance, our coverage has to be awesome ALL THE TIME because our D line won't get there. We usually can't get away with much because we play such a (relatively) conservative defense.

I think a priority is, besides drafting/acquring talent via FA, is to make sure to utilize our pass rushers talents scheme wise, and coach them up a bit better. In addition, everyman needs to work on their ball skills in the offseason because obviously thats a huge problem (not schematic, but still). The combination of allowing our pass rushers to rush, and improving our ball skills should take us from good to great.


Now, I could be horribly wrong on this. I could be an idiot and for all I know Blache's defense relies on gettin after the QB, who knows. This is my observations. Thoughts?

[skinfan2k]

I saw in alot of games that our DTs cant hold their own and get punished by bigger Olines as well

[#98QBKiller]

I agree about Jason Taylor. The Philly game was a direct result of lining him up all over the line and at LB.

I'd like to see us use him like that next season when he's fully healthy.

[LD0506]

First thought? You're not an idiot, this was a well thought out post and stands in stark contrast to a lot of the rest of recent offerings.

I think you make some good points but in the end, it comes down to "do I want to second-guess pro coaches who do this for a living?"

I'm not sure what the answers are but I will be surprised if both Blache and Zorn don't reevaluate their overall game this offseason.

[mnb123]

Correct me if im wrong, but I think the scheme is based around playing to the strengths of our supar line.

If there is no chance that these dudes are going to reach the passer, dont gameplan on pressuring the passer

[maskedsuperstar]

Taylor said he didn't like the scheme. I don't know if he comes back. Stopping the run is very important. But a defense must pressure the QB, also. Make the QB move his feet.

[Leonard Washington]

You see, it seems like our defensive philosophy is "let's play our basic defense first 2 downs, hope they throw underneath and we make the tackle, and on 3rd down THEN we get 'creative'". It is this philosophy that is in stark contrast to Coach Williams'. Williams would build more unique game plans (such as our Minnesota game last year) and mix our coverages very very well. He was not afraid to blitz early and often, and that's what generated more pressure.

Don't turn GW into a saint now that he is gone. GW's defense 2006-8 was the same as this years.

[skinfan2k]

Gregg Williams had so many 10 yard cushions, yet people want him back

[tr1]

:rotflmao:

Had our offense scored 24 or more point on a regular basis, we would have been undefeated.

Fellas, don't blame the defense. You look silly doing so.

[DieselPwr44]

:rotflmao:

Had our offense scored 24 or more point on a regular basis, we would have been undefeated.

Fellas, don't blame the defense. You look silly doing so.

So you're completely satisfied with the bend,bend some more...bend a little more style of D we play??

Our D is sooo great that everytime the O musters a td, our vaunted D gives it right back to the opposition....especially in the 4th quarter.

Why? Because they can't get off the field when it matters most because we have no pass rush.

IMO, Dline is just as bad a need as the Oline is.

[Burgold]

The problem is that on obvious passing downs... they couldn't generate pressure either. They couldn't generate pressure rushing six or seven guys. So, it can't just be gap control and the line. Our blitzing was really ineffective too. Yes, you can pin some of this on philosophy and scheme (especially on first downs and maybe second), but you can't tell me they're being told to play run first on third and 19? I'd say the problem is 70% personell and 30% scheme.

The other other area where you can see that it's the players is third or fourth and 1. For a great run stopping team, we gave up far more than our share of these. That suggests to me that our DT's just aren't great at generating push or pressuring the middle.

[Cooley4President]

Don't turn GW into a saint now that he is gone. GW's defense 2006-8 was the same as this years.

I completely agree. The defense this year looked EXACTLY like the Williams defense from last year.

2004 and 2005 he was more aggressive, 2006 was a catastrophe with big plays everywhere, and 2007 was the same "bend but don't break" defense we saw this year. I think with the mediocre individual talent we have across the board on defense this is the only way we can play. In fact, I think considering the players on the field they both did great jobs of over-achieving. We don't have a single playmaker at DL or LB aside from Fletcher. Luckily our DBs played well enough this year (even with the lack of INTs) to somewhat make up for the lack of pass rush.

[sideshow24]

Your front 4 MUST generate pressure on their own at times and ours just doesn't. I don't think changing the scheme will change that. I think Blache did a great job with the players he has.

[Chump Bailey]

The only problem is we don't gamble enough so our guys have to play with no margin of error most of the time.

I am in agreement with your post. I think we have to play with zero margin regardless. B.Mitch and Ken Harvey alluded to some of your thoughts also - that perhaps too much emphasis is placed on containment and that has hurt Carter.

We need to upgrade our DT situation.

I do not want JT back unless a premier DT is installed. I do think Haynesworth should and will be on the radar.

Fix the DL in FA in one swoop with AH and upgrade/shore up the OL via the draft, which is entirely doable IMO especially if we trade Rogers and/or Vinny finds a partner willing to trade up.

[AKM311]

SMOSS89, good post! I think the issue with this defense compared to the elite teams is not so much scheme as it is SPEED.

Look at the Ravens, Steelers, Titans, etc., they are built on speed. The Skins have Hall and Landry who have that ATHLETIC SPEED. I am not talking straight line speed, but that football speed. We don't have it. We have smart, physical, hard working players.

We need an injection of speed in certain areas. If ST was here and we had Landry roaming the middle of the field and attacking, you would see a big difference in sacks and pressure. The opposing OL would have to adopt to Landry and not just the D-Line.

If we can get an athletic speed LB and DE's, things will change. Leave the defense alone scheme wise and get some more speed.

[ciresolstice]

I agree in many ways...there was definitely some very basic, base defense going on. Some misuse of players/technique. Lack of aggressiveness, then...just some lack of talent in some areas that couldn't be covered up with scheme. With all of that said/considered The defense did a pretty good job with what they had, however some adjustments need to be made to go to the next level.

[Pounds]

If you look at what both Andre Carter and Jason Taylor did last year, no one can logically argue that they are no longer capable players; Carter had 10.5 sacks and Taylor 11. Age cannot explain that dramatic of a drop-off. Is Taylor the same player he was when he was named DPOY? Probably not, but Carter? I think he is still in his prime.

To me, scheme is the driving force behind the statistical drop-off in terms of sacks. The fact that the line played the run as well as it did, indicates to me that perhaps the lineman had a two-gap responsibility and simply weren't asked to shot the gap or t-off on the QB with any regularity.

[fire3fighter4]

Point is, the good teams know how to beat us. Elite QB's will always find their man no matter how good coverage is because the good QB's can beat good coverage with great throws. T
Is that why we beat both the saints and Cardinals(two best passing offenses) this season?..


seriously people.

We held the 1st and 2nd best passing offenses in the NFL to less than 25 points, held the 6th best to under 25 twice, the 8th best to under 25 points 2 times.


What more do you all want?..........

Our defense should not be brought up in any discussion outside of getting a solid DT this offseason/draft.

[fire3fighter4]

We played:
saints- brees had over 5000 yards this season, and is the second QB to do this in the history o the NFL.
Cardinals - Boldin, Fitz, Breaston, Warner. Enough said.
Eagles(twice) - hate them, but have put up great passing games this season
Giants(twice)- arguably best running team in the NFL this season, Eli hasn't been bad either


And NONE of these teams put up more than 25 points.

DESPITE the fact that all of them average 26+ points per game.

[REDALERT]

This DC does some of the same things that Greg Williams did, but without the exotic blitz packages like Greg Williams had. Unfortunatley, I don't like it and most of the players don't either. Why! because it doesn't really play to our defensive players strength and that included Jason T. and he let it be known in a recent article.

Sure! he was hurt a majority of the season, but still wasn't being utilized properly until the end of the season. Example, the sacks he had in the Eagles game had him roaming a little more and coming from the edges with his quickness and not hands down on the turf.


Fact be known that the year Greg Wiliams was still DC and the skins defense was ranked like near to last or something, but I forgot the year. I think it was the year before Sean Taylor got murdered. Anyhow, during the last few games of the season Greg decided to just let the players play and use they're talent and push forward and not occupy space. During those last few games we generated more pass rush and created more sacks and havoc then the entire first 15 games or so. When asked by the players what has changed, the players replied "Coach is letting us go".




Well, the next year I remember because it was the year Taylor got hurt and he eventually left us for a better place. What did Greg Williams do, he went right back to playing Cover 2-3-4 schemes because Sean Taylor was playing centerfield and picking off everything. But the defense still wasn't really generating a pass rush or sacking anybody. That's when Laron was put at FS after the Sean taylor incident because it worked with Sean back there, but Laron is no Sean Taylor even though he came on strong late last year during the playoff run. This is why Blache is playing the scheme that the defense played this year. Thinking things would be the same but with a little touch of his strategies. Sure, the defense was a top tier defense but not in the likes of the Steelers, Ravens or the Titans like many of you stated in other threads.


The fact of the matter is our secondary can cover but for so long without a pass rush to force the QB's hand. And this is why guys like Deangelo Hall made alot of plays because he's a better pure and more athletic corner then Rogers and so is Springs. Some may say Springs is not, but I have to beg the differ. See springs in his early years when he was expected to be what some want Rogers to be but it won't happen. When healthy, Springs is stil the best corner will have. But until Blache force Danny and Cerrato's hand to get him some beef on the DL that can generate pressure, our CB's will eventually bend during crucial times during the game from exaustion.



Until we get some true pass rushers and blache get out of the Greg Williams mode and let these players go. All we're going to get is a top ten defense that breaks during the 4th qtr.'s and can't cover all day with no pass rush help because the opposing QB has too much time to throw. We may be top ten or even top 5, but won't have a defense that causes havoc on opposing QB's like a Steelers, Ravens, Titans or even Eagles team. Even the Cowboys can create havoc some of the time ;).

[jtyler42]

The only issue I have with the way our D plays is how tight Blache plays our DE's, they always got pinned inside against the run(causing a soft corner) and never had a good angle on the pass rush b/c they were head up on the OT's...I'd like to see Blache allow our DE's to align outside of the OT's, this would make it harder for offenses to pin our DE's inside as they would have more of an upfield angle, and it would also help our pass rush b/c they would be able to get upfield quicker...

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

:rotflmao:

Had our offense scored 24 or more point on a regular basis, we would have been undefeated.

Fellas, don't blame the defense. You look silly doing so.

:doh: Well either you didn't read the post, or you didn't understand it. He didn't blame anything on the defense. If you think our D has no problems, then I'll go ahead and roll around on the floor laughing like a moron. He is simply looking at a few issues that do exist with our defense. I do agree with the OP...but I think the skill set really hurts the scheme. It seems Montgomery is the only DT we have who is strong enough to push his man back.

I understand Blatche when he says we don't need sacks, but we need pressure, and it seems like he doesn't understand it. I remember he said he doesn't want anybody different on the DLine, he's fine with our guys. That is just ridic to me. There are other teams with poor DLines, but they still find ways to get pressure. I've seen us consistently send 6+ players on 3rd downs, and not come close to the QB. Although we don't have great talent there, that has to come down to scheme. I've never seen an overload blitz get picked up like ours.