No Longer One Piece of The Puzzle Away: Comparing Us to Them

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Hey All,
I was reading a couple of posts from the past couple of days and in combination with those posts and while watching the playoffs, I started to get pissed off, sad, and frustrated all at the same time. This weekend, instead of arguing with a bunch of ESers about this and that, I found myself agreeing with nearly every post in one form or another, well not every post ;). In the past, when the Skins didn't make the playoffs we all had a different take on "the state of the union", so to speak. Maybe this time is different.

This time, we all seem to want to talk about Campbell vs. Colt [the best qb in the league] :silly:. Some wonder whether Portis is expendable or not. We all have a consensus view regarding the aging O and D lines, the FO, and most recognize the biggest void in our arsenal, the lack of explosive young talent. Although we talk about this kinda' stuff every off-season (even during the season), it seems like we're all correct in one form or another about what we need this year, and the year after that, and the year after that...

It's almost too glaringly obvious, isn't it? Scary even.

The Redskins are beyond the need for just a "rebuilding year". That is an understatement, at best, when describing the current predicament that this franchise is in. Do you all remember when we were starting threads that read, "One Piece of The Puzzle Away..?" That thread hasn't been posted yet this off-season, and for good reason. If it has, I've missed it and I'm glad that I did.

Watch the rest of the teams who have either gone "one and done" with mostly young talent on their rosters coupled with savvy vets; or watch a team win a game here or there and get eliminated; or watch who wins it all this post-season with that aforementioned makeup [youth/talent coupled with savvy veterans] and remember how much the Redskins pale in comparison to said team(s).

We used to be the 2008 Fins or the 2008 Falcons back in 2005 except we were old and beat up then. What are we now? We're certainly not younger, more durable, and more talented than we were then. At least we saved ourselves from that embarrassing probability of a "one and done" or "none and done" performance again had we eked into the Wild Card game this year [as someone mentioned in a recent thread]. Sure it's a pessimist's viewpoint, but is it? Maybe it's just reality.

We have already started to voice our opinions with regard to how we compare to "X" team or how one of our players compares to "X" player on "X" team. Rightfully so, I might add. We've started the FA and Draft Prospect talk. We do it every year, but this year our senses are heightened. Maybe you and I are wiser fans this time around. I know that I've learned a lot about myself as a fan of the Redskins, and I've learned much about the team that I cheer for too. I know that this "ain't" my Dad's or Grandpa's Redskins. Normally, we'd be excited about that, but just like Oldsmobile was phased out a few years ago, this team seems a bit phased out as well.

On a side note: I went to my first LIVE Capitals game this past weekend. In comparing my five years as a season ticket holder at Fed Ex and my experience at the Caps game, I'd have to say that it convinced me even more that we are FAR from being "one piece of the puzzle away..." It wasn't the game itself, the arena, the location, the fans, the scheme, or the atmosphere. For me, it was the youth, the talent, the explosiveness, and the knowing that the product on the field (ice if you please) was top notched.

Keep demanding more Redskins fans, and keep talking about things like a need for change in the FO and on the roster. It's the only way that change will come about. Whether you agree that our President Elect is the right man for the job isn't necessarily the point. The point is, at least he recognizes the need for change. I wonder if that concept will rub off on the sports franchise up the road...or I mean, across the river over in Landover, Maryland. :paranoid:

I thought I'd share how I'm feeling about this franchise. Tell me if I'm wrong about this team. It wouldn't be the first time that you told me so, but it might be the first time that I was wrong j/k ;)

HAIL AND HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!
:dallasuck

[fire3fighter4]

On a side note: I went to my first LIVE Capitals game this past weekend. In comparing my five years as a season ticket holder at Fed Ex and my experience at the Caps game, I'd have to say that it convinced me even more that we are FAR from being "one piece of the puzzle away..." It wasn't the game itself, the arena, the location, the fans, the scheme, or the atmosphere. For me, it was the youth, the talent, the explosiveness, and the knowing that the product on the field (ice if you please) was top notched.

I've followed the caps for many years, although just got to go to my first game...The caps have had a half empty stadium(from what i've heard) for many years. The only reason it's like that is because of all the bandwagon fans that have jumped on after last years success.


The caps have definitely turned that organization around. The 2004 draft turned out to be the best day o the decade for the caps(drafting AO). But in all fairness, they essentially landed the lebron James/Peyton Manning of the NHL...Players of that caliber don't come out very often...

And on a side note...somebody needs to teach semin how to fight....clark may have gotten dropped, but at least he didn't start a slap fest.



But on the skins, personally I believe that in order to be a great team you have to suck for a while. And the problem with that is we haven't sucked for the most part...just been mediocre. Getting a top 10 pick can help an organization tremendously.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

The caps have definitely turned that organization around. The 2004 draft turned out to be the best day o the decade for the caps(drafting AO). But in all fairness, they essentially landed the lebron James/Peyton Manning of the NHL...Players of that caliber don't come out very often...

And on a side note...somebody needs to teach semin how to fight....clark may have gotten dropped, but at least he didn't start a slap fest.



But on the skins, personally I believe that in order to be a great team you have to suck for a while. And the problem with that is we haven't sucked for the most part...just been mediocre. Getting a top 10 pick can help an organization tremendously.
:applause: on the Semin comment ;) Guess he didn't think he'd be fighting since his fight strap wasn't latched.

As far as the Peyton, Lebron thing, I understand what you mean, but I'm looking at the overall picture. Ovechkin aside, I see tons of talent on that roster and most of those guys are young and talented when compared to their opponents. The Skins don't have that when you compare their roster to other rosters. I know that #8 makes everyone else good, but I'm not asking the Skins to get the next Peyton Manning or Taylor Jacobs :silly:. I'd like to see an infusion of young, explosive talent. Who wouldn't, right?

We have had top ten picks. One could have been that "once in ten years" kinda' player. Even still, he was a safety. Maybe he would have been like an Ed Reed or Polomalu but we'll never know. I agree with you about the mediocre thing, but don't you think that we've been mediocre long enough? I certainly do.

[STBonecrusher21]

<goes and grabs razor blades>

:(

Where's bubba?!?!

[21DIEHARDSKINSFAN21]

op, your right about everything but to say top ten draft picks helm tremendously, ask the raiders that. lol

[SkinsTerps26]

we are more than 1 piece away from contending. oh well, 31 teams loses every season, we're in the majority

[Boy2Der]

Your right its the Skins whole idea that they are one piece away which has led to this that is why we traded for taylor we thought he could put us over the edge when we had no business making that trade.

[IbleedBnG83]

First of all, CONGRATS on your first LIVE Caps game!!!

Sad truth is, we have become a crappy franchise. We are in major rebuilding mode.

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

I am sorry but I also have to bring it up...if Sean Taylor was alive we would be in the playoffs and talking about how we were one piece away from the puzzle.

Right now we are like 3 pieces because we will need 2 players to make up his talents

[STBonecrusher21]

I am sorry but I also have to bring it up...if Sean Taylor was alive we would be in the playoffs and talking about how we were one piece away from the puzzle.

Right now we are like 3 pieces because we will need 2 players to make up his talents

Now that I think about it, you're probably right. Just think, the deep pass at the end of the Rams game never gets completed. The deep ball at the end of the 49ers game never gets completed.

That's 2 more W's right there, and there are probably more.

:(

[IbleedBnG83]

Now that I think about it, you're probably right. Just think, the deep pass at the end of the Rams game never gets completed. The deep ball at the end of the 49ers game never gets completed.

That's 2 more W's right there, and there are probably more.

:(

ST=INT's...

[Touchdown Redskins]

You know what the saddest part is? It's that no one has any faith in Vinny to actually fix these glaring weaknesses. We know that we have an RB with high-mileage. We know that we need to patch up a shaky offensive line. We know that we have no gamebreakers on defense. We know that our special teams leaves a lot to be desired.

But no one on this board has any faith in Vinny to correct these problems. And they shouldn't. He hasn't proved anything to Skins fans, and as long as we have a FO continually shunning what makes a winning team (O- and D-lines), we're going to wade in mediocrity.

[fire3fighter4]

op, your right about everything but to say top ten draft picks helm tremendously, ask the raiders that. lol
The raiders haven't been bad for that long, and most of their early draft picks are still young(even though I think russel was a stupid choice)..I think people forget they were in the superbowl only 5 years ago. Al Davis is running that team into the ground though. He'll be battling snyder for the worst owner in the league for a while.

[Hiro]

But no one on this board has any faith in Vinny to correct these problems. And they shouldn't. He hasn't proved anything to Skins fans, and as long as we have a FO continually shunning what makes a winning team (O- and D-lines), we're going to wade in mediocrity.
If reports are indeed correct, then Vinny has until after the '09 season to prove to Danny that he can build a contender. If this isn't the case, then we could finally see the FO get put into capable hands. If this isn't the case ... sigh ... :(

[RedskinInExile]

The Redskins are beyond the need for just a "rebuilding year". That is an understatement, at best, when describing the current predicament that this franchise is in. Do you all remember when we were starting threads that read, "One Piece of The Puzzle Away..?"

Ah, the days of optimism when we were one 6'5" receiver away from the Super Bowl. Truth is, we need major upgrades pretty much everywhere. This is not a one year fix. It's not like we're doomed or anything (we can still scrap our way into the playoffs next year) but greatness is years away.

[RedskinInExile]

If reports are indeed correct, then Vinny has until after the '09 season to prove to Danny that he can build a contender. If this isn't the case, then we could finally see the FO get put into capable hands. If this isn't the case ... sigh ... :(

Speaking of optimism, I admire yours-- thinking that Danny would a) fire Vinny, or b) if he did, would replace him with someone competent

[Siven]

I've followed the caps for many years, although just got to go to my first game...The caps have had a half empty stadium(from what i've heard) for many years. The only reason it's like that is because of all the bandwagon fans that have jumped on after last years success.


The caps have definitely turned that organization around. The 2004 draft turned out to be the best day o the decade for the caps(drafting AO). But in all fairness, they essentially landed the lebron James/Peyton Manning of the NHL...Players of that caliber don't come out very often...

And on a side note...somebody needs to teach semin how to fight....clark may have gotten dropped, but at least he didn't start a slap fest.



But on the skins, personally I believe that in order to be a great team you have to suck for a while. And the problem with that is we haven't sucked for the most part...just been mediocre. Getting a top 10 pick can help an organization tremendously.

really what it comes down to is getting a gamechanger at the QB position, or getting a coach and GM who know how to put the pieces in place for that QB to succeed.

[fire3fighter4]

really what it comes down to is getting a gamechanger at the QB position, or getting a coach and GM who know how to put the pieces in place for that QB to succeed.
I think QB is the position that can have the biggest impact, but any stud player(see peterson, Jake Long(OL), fitzgerald, many others) can have a huge impact on teams.

[fire3fighter4]

Ah, the days of optimism when we were one 6'5" receiver away from the Super Bowl. Truth is, we need major upgrades pretty much everywhere. This is not a one year fix. It's not like we're doomed or anything (we can still scrap our way into the playoffs next year) but greatness is years away.
Agreed. Personally, I wouldn't mind going 4-12 the next 2 years to get some picks and draft some game changers, since this would mean vinny would probably be gone as well.

[jfriedenthal]

Agreed. Personally, I wouldn't mind going 4-12 the next 2 years to get some picks and draft some game changers, since this would mean vinny would probably be gone as well.

Why should the fans for ONE SEASOn have to deal with a 4-12 team. I disagree wholeheartedly. I would give up my season tickets in an instance if we went 4-12 two seasons with this front office and this owner, at these ridiculous prices. We as fans deserve at worst an average team. It has been 17 years since a superbowl win, 17 YEARS and really, we are probably another 17 away. Danny, and Vinny owe us MORE!

[WARPATH '82]

Hey All,
I was reading a couple of posts from the past couple of days and in combination with those posts and while watching the playoffs, I started to get pissed off, sad, and frustrated all at the same time. This weekend, instead of arguing with a bunch of ESers about this and that, I found myself agreeing with nearly every post in one form or another, well not every post ;). In the past, when the Skins didn't make the playoffs we all had a different take on "the state of the union", so to speak. Maybe this time is different.

This time, we all seem to want to talk about Campbell vs. Colt [the best qb in the league] :silly:. Some wonder whether Portis is expendable or not. We all have a consensus view regarding the aging O and D lines, the FO, and most recognize the biggest void in our arsenal, the lack of explosive young talent. Although we talk about this kinda' stuff every off-season (even during the season), it seems like we're all correct in one form or another about what we need this year, and the year after that, and the year after that...

It's almost too glaringly obvious, isn't it? Scary even.

The Redskins are beyond the need for just a "rebuilding year". That is an understatement, at best, when describing the current predicament that this franchise is in. Do you all remember when we were starting threads that read, "One Piece of The Puzzle Away..?" That thread hasn't been posted yet this off-season, and for good reason. If it has, I've missed it and I'm glad that I did.

Watch the rest of the teams who have either gone "one and done" with mostly young talent on their rosters coupled with savvy vets; or watch a team win a game here or there and get eliminated; or watch who wins it all this post-season with that aforementioned makeup [youth/talent coupled with savvy veterans] and remember how much the Redskins pale in comparison to said team(s).

We used to be the 2008 Fins or the 2008 Falcons back in 2005 except we were old and beat up then. What are we now? We're certainly not younger, more durable, and more talented than we were then. At least we saved ourselves from that embarrassing probability of a "one and done" or "none and done" performance again had we eked into the Wild Card game this year [as someone mentioned in a recent thread]. Sure it's a pessimist's viewpoint, but is it? Maybe it's just reality.

We have already started to voice our opinions with regard to how we compare to "X" team or how one of our players compares to "X" player on "X" team. Rightfully so, I might add. We've started the FA and Draft Prospect talk. We do it every year, but this year our senses are heightened. Maybe you and I are wiser fans this time around. I know that I've learned a lot about myself as a fan of the Redskins, and I've learned much about the team that I cheer for too. I know that this "ain't" my Dad's or Grandpa's Redskins. Normally, we'd be excited about that, but just like Oldsmobile was phased out a few years ago, this team seems a bit phased out as well.

On a side note: I went to my first LIVE Capitals game this past weekend. In comparing my five years as a season ticket holder at Fed Ex and my experience at the Caps game, I'd have to say that it convinced me even more that we are FAR from being "one piece of the puzzle away..." It wasn't the game itself, the arena, the location, the fans, the scheme, or the atmosphere. For me, it was the youth, the talent, the explosiveness, and the knowing that the product on the field (ice if you please) was top notched.

Keep demanding more Redskins fans, and keep talking about things like a need for change in the FO and on the roster. It's the only way that change will come about. Whether you agree that our President Elect is the right man for the job isn't necessarily the point. The point is, at least he recognizes the need for change. I wonder if that concept will rub off on the sports franchise up the road...or I mean, across the river over in Landover, Maryland. :paranoid:

I thought I'd share how I'm feeling about this franchise. Tell me if I'm wrong about this team. It wouldn't be the first time that you told me so, but it might be the first time that I was wrong j/k ;)

HAIL AND HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!
:dallasuck

Couldn't agree more with this post. Its been almost 20 years since we've done anything worthwhile. Every team in the Division has either won or been to the SB since then and its sickening to watch this great franchise be ruined and run aground due to ineptitude. Some of us voice our displeasure in not wanting to accept the status quo only to be labled as untrue, fairweather, or pessimists. I feel that those who accept the status quo without question do more harm than those of us who voice our displeasure.

We watch another playoff year where our division rivals will be playing deep into the playoffs. To me its sickening because this franchise should be better than what it is. How long must we wait and endure this?? Other teams are worse and have been worse for longer periods...I know!! But do we measure our franchise on and fanbase on their level or do we want to raise the standards??

The only way I see anything changing is if there is a change from the top. We can blame players and coaches all day, but it all begins from the top.

[Dan T.]

Looking over the team in the cold light of the offseason, "one piece of the puzzle away" seems quaint. The number of question marks that come up is scary - across the board, offense and defense, other than perhaps at tight end and defense backfield.

[Mr. Grundle]

For a team that finishes 8-8, it usually means one of two things. You are an average team on the rise, a piece or two away from really competing. Or you are an average team on the decline, a piece or two away from completely falling apart. Unfortunately, we are the latter.

I've already accepted the fact that we are going to be bad next season. Train wreck bad. The only good thing that will come of it is Vinny will be fired, and maybe Dan will finally hire a real GM and let them do their job.

Regardless, the sooner a major rebuilding project gets started, the better.

[Snagletooth]

I don't think you can spend big money on free agents until you "know" you have a QB in place. You end up mediocer, old, on the decline, and strapped for cash.

If the defense has a drop-off we may be in real trouble next season.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Seriously, if the defense sucks next year and the offense isn't any better the skins will NOT win more than 4 games. I'm willing to bet on that. The defense was the ONLY thing that kept the skins decent

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Agreed. Personally, I wouldn't mind going 4-12 the next 2 years to get some picks and draft some game changers, since this would mean vinny would probably be gone as well.

I wouldn't go THAT far (2 seasons of suckitude is an eternity in today's NFL). BUT, I would be willing to throw away this year's draft by trading our 1st (this year) for some other mediocre team's 1st & another pick in NEXT year's draft, and totally sucking this upcoming year. That would potentially give us not 1, but 2 high first round draft picks, a high 2nd or 2/a high 3rd or 2, and a complete draft in rounds 4-7 beyond that. Think of that, in one draft you get 2 studs, a couple more starters, and some young depth with a surprise maybe in there a la Horton.

[Dick Edds]

nice post ... it does feel good to finally let the "expectations" of a Joe Gibbs coached team finally dissipate (at least in my mind). I think now I will have more realistic expectations of this team in the future.

I wonder though, where do we start? Just seems like we are constantly trying to squeak out a few more plays from these high priced FA's instead of just sucking it up and cutting them loose for young unproven talent.

I look at a team like the Titans and I envy them, not because they sucked the past few years, not just because they had the balls to scrap everything and start over cap wise ... but because they stuck with their man (Fisher) and they have a competent GM ... they are still a team on the rise, if you can believe that.

They are exceeding expectations and Jeff Fisher is a top flight coach and master motivator, but it stars at the top. They have a competent owner who has been loyal to Fisher. Most importantly they have a FO structure that lets the football people do football work, and stays out of their way.

All I want is for someone to be held accountable for their actions, whether Vinny magically puts together a playoff caliber roster, or whether he fails miserably ... there is nothing more frustrating than looking at a team like ours and not being able to pin point where the problem is. In our case it's ... "what is the BIGGER problem to address? Player A, or coach B?" That's hardly a good way to evaluate a roster and coaching staff, yet it seems to me at least these are questions that hover over this franchise like a black cloud.

Thus we are in fact "No Longer One Piece of The Puzzle Away" ... and I'm not talking about personnel, I am talking about scouting talent, coaching and building a REAL FO structure. We have so many missing pieces because we mortgaged them all away on this "win now with FA" and "build for the future at the same time" plan ... funny how our FO thought they were so slick with managing the cap by extending contracts and giving bonus money up front to players past their prime. We may never be in cap hell, but we sure as hell (no pun intended) aren't getting to football heaven any time soon.

I look at a team like the Eagles and the Steelers ... and am amazed at the fact that every year they replace players (stud players too), yet they still get deeper, younger and are able to maintain a level of consistent play through an entire decade. Hail to the off season I guess.

[Biggeesmoove]

Couldn't agree more with this post. Its been almost 20 years since we've done anything worthwhile. Every team in the Division has either won or been to the SB since then and its sickening to watch this great franchise be ruined and run aground due to ineptitude. Some of us voice our displeasure in not wanting to accept the status quo only to be labled as untrue, fairweather, or pessimists. I feel that those who accept the status quo without question do more harm than those of us who voice our displeasure.

We watch another playoff year where our division rivals will be playing deep into the playoffs. To me its sickening because this franchise should be better than what it is. How long must we wait and endure this?? Other teams are worse and have been worse for longer periods...I know!! But do we measure our franchise on and fanbase on their level or do we want to raise the standards??

The only way I see anything changing is if there is a change from the top. We can blame players and coaches all day, but it all begins from the top.

What's important to note is that the Redskins are in this funk because the Front Office has neglected to admit (to itself, mainly) that a major rebuilding effort has been needed since the end of Gibbs I. They haven't done it, though. They've been prescribing to the thought that they're only "one or two pieces away".

The Redskins will remain in the same place that they're in until a total rebuilding effort is undertaken. Coaching staff, players, scouting and executive staff.

[WARPATH '82]

What's important to note is that the Redskins are in this funk because the Front Office has neglected to admit (to itself, mainly) that a major rebuilding effort has been needed since the end of Gibbs I. They haven't done it, though. They've been prescribing to the thought that they're only "one or two pieces away".

The Redskins will remain in the same place that they're in until a total rebuilding effort is undertaken. Coaching staff, players, scouting and executive staff.

Agreed!
I look at this past year where we drafted 3 high draft choices (2 WRs, 1TE) which barely got any playing time, because of questionable reasons...like, not running patterns deep enough in practice, coming to camp injured, out of shape are a few that come to mind. When it comes to the route running, my thinking is how will they ever learn if they dont get the chance...they're rookies!! Other teams rookies that played over 50% and contributed or even started are probably a whole season ahead of ours now. Did the scouting department screw up in their evaluations of these players?? Did the FO not stress to the coaching staff to get them more PT?? Did the coaching staff not stress the importance of their presence on the team is important from day one insisting that they be ready to play when training camp starts??.....Just some of the questions that makes me wonder sometimes.

Since the NFL isn't a static league, a team down today can be champions tomorrow. I think the FO goes by this logic and looks for the quick fix rather than build for the long term. When I look at the eagles, a team that didnt make the playoffs last year, whom we swept this year, and see that they have a legitimate chance to at least get to the NFC championship, I :doh: in disbelief and ask are they really that much better than the Skins and if so how :whoknows: They have been better than us for the better half of the past decade, so we should have had better draft choices right??...ohhhhh....I know what happened, the FO gave draft picks away...I guess I answered my own question on that one!!! :doh:

Forgive me, just drowning my sorrows in Henikens right now!!