Larry Fitzgerald Backs Up My Claims About T.O.

[Califan007]

In case anyone wants to remember:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=255348

My claim at the time (and now, for that matter):

Owens will never help a team win a Super Bowl, or even help a team make it to the Super Bowl. His teams are something like 4-9 in the postseason, and the one time he's been to the SB he had zero to do with winning in the postseason to get there. He's good for QBs' stats, but that's about it.

The response?

Wow. You think of this on your own?

I just don't know what to say to such an outlandish statement. He WAS the Eagles in the superbowl. He IS one of the main reasons the Cowboys have been good the past two years and are perched to do big things this year.

I think you are taking a team sport and making it about an individual. He is a gamer, he's proven that time and again.

I don't know where people come up with this stuff... :doh:
You are clueless and Im done debating this with you because you clearly have no idea.

Again, whats your take on Randy Moss? Same thing as T.O.?
You can read that thread for the entire T.O. debate if you're bored lol...


So what does Fitzgerald have to do with this? Easy:

Owens, in 13 postseason games:

59 receptions, 801 yds, 6 TDs
4-9 record

Fitzgerald, in 3 postseason games:

23 receptions, 419 yds, 5 TDs
3-0 record

Owens averages 4.5 receptions per playoff game.
Fitzgerald averages 8 receptions per playoff game, twice that of T.O.

Owens averages 61 yds per playoff game.
Fitzgerald averages 140 yds per playoff game, over twice that of T.O.

Owens averages 0.46 TDs per playoff game.
Fitzgerald has averaged 1.67 TDs per playoff game, almost four times more than T.O.

Replay that last stat in your head again: Fitzgerald is averaging four times as many TDs per game in the playoffs than T.O.

Fitzgerald is the receiver everyone claimed T.O. was supposed to be, in terms of helping a team get to and win the Super Bowl. Fitz shows up in the postseason. T.O. has a long history of disappearing in the postseason. In his first opportunity to play in the playoffs, Fitz comes through with flying colors, even dominating in the NFC Championship game to help get his team over the hump and into the Super Bowl. Nothing in T.O.'s entire postseason career suggests that he can do the same. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.


As always, of course, bubba got it:

:doh: TO has been on 3 playoff caliber TEAMs..... only one reached the Super Bowl.... while he was sidelined through the playoffs, and lost. The last 2 seasons the Cowboys have won exactly zero playoff games, with TO starting for them.

to suggest TO is a key factor for the Cowboys to become SB champions is just nonsense.

The Pokes may win with him, but you can't assume just because he's on the team automatically improves their chances, because you'd be ignoring the obvious fact he has never helped any team before he has played on actually win a championship

So, to steal a line from that hack journalist in another thread (lol)...Thank you, Larry Fitzgerald, for helping me make my case about T.O. :applause: :cheers:...T.O. will help Romo pad his stats for another year, maybe two...but that's it.

[Xero21]

I just went back and read the debate.

I have to say you were right. But the people debating you weren't necessarily wrong. They were saying "but T.O. had one of the best Super Bowl performances in history!!"

but you were saying "yes, but the assumption that T.O. alone automatically makes the Cowboys contenders is idiotic, because while T.O. was having his great SB performance, his team still lost."

They seemed to miss the fact that you were trying to counter the media's message of "T.O. makes the Cowboys Super Bowl contenders." You did well showing that T.O., contrary to the media's perception, has in fact not ever really done a whole lot to get his team to a Super Bowl during the playoffs, and his one great SB performance went for nothing.

[Califan007]

I just went back and read the debate.

I have to say you were right. But the people debating you weren't necessarily wrong. They were saying "but T.O. had one of the best Super Bowl performances in history!!"

but you were saying "yes, but the assumption that T.O. alone automatically makes the Cowboys contenders is idiotic, because while T.O. was having his great SB performance, his team still lost."

They seemed to miss the fact that you were trying to counter the media's message of "T.O. makes the Cowboys Super Bowl contenders." You did well showing that T.O., contrary to the media's perception, has in fact not ever really done a whole lot to get his team to a Super Bowl during the playoffs, and his one great SB performance went for nothing.
Precisely, yep...:cheers:

[[[ghost]]]

It also helps that Fitzgerald shows so much passion for winning, like when he goes nuts everytime his running back converts a key 3rd and Short or when Hightower scored the GW touchdown.

Fitzgerald is a younger TO, with much better character and passion for Winning, as compared to TOs passion for his stats.

[skinsfan_1215]

];6066038']It also helps that Fitzgerald shows so much passion for winning, like when he goes nuts everytime his running back converts a key 3rd and Short or when Hightower scored the GW touchdown.

Fitzgerald is a younger TO, with much better character and passion for Winning, as compared to TOs passion for his stats.

I was actually shocked when I saw him in their post game press conference. He was in there neatly dressed with his reading glasses on and hair up, and seemed very articulate and down to Earth. Seemed like a pretty good guy.

Sad, but that's never how I pictured him based on the image of other "diva" recievers like TO and Plaxico. I just assumed he would fit right into that crowd.

[Califan007]

];6066038']It also helps that Fitzgerald shows so much passion for winning, like when he goes nuts everytime his running back converts a key 3rd and Short or when Hightower scored the GW touchdown.

Fitzgerald is a younger TO, with much better character and passion for Winning, as compared to TOs passion for his stats.
I think that's a good description of him as well...

[RenegadeTK]

Fitzgerald is basically the manifestation of what everyone should want on their team

[BigMike619]

Fitzgerald seems like could be a professor with the demeanor he has and the way he carries himself. I love seeing athletes that actually speak proper english and carry themselves as professionals.

[Westbrook36]

When a ball is in the air going towards Fitzgerald, is there ever a doubt who is coming down with the ball? I know its early but you might be able to put his ball skills up with any WR in NFL history.

[skinsfan_1215]

When a ball is in the air going towards Fitzgerald, is there ever a doubt who is coming down with the ball? I know its early but you might be able to put his ball skills up with any WR in NFL history.

When all is said and done, he very well may be. What will determine that is whether he plays most of his career on a good team or a lousy team. If the Cards turn into a good team like it's looking they might, and he stays with them, then I would say Fitz>Rice, Moss, etc. And that is certainly impressive.

But like I was saying, still early in his career and there are too many unknowns going forward.

[dreamboater]

Fitzgerald also has incredible hands, something TO has had issues with. Combine his speed, size and good hands..hes already more than TO. Throw in great team player, he is leaps and bounds better FOR THE TEAM.

[MLSKINS]

Cali look at the QBs he has had

Steve Young
Jeff Garcia
Mcnabb
Romo

Young is a HOF and we know what happened when they went to the playoffs toghter.

Jeff Garcia is a good QB, but I don't think he is that good

Mcnabb Choker
Romo Choker

Maybe it is the QB's that TO has had in the playoffs. Of course his locker room shenanigans could have effected them, but I won't put all the blame on TO for the way his teams failed in the playoffs.

[Califan007]

Cali look at the QBs he has had

Steve Young
Jeff Garcia
Mcnabb
Romo

Young is a HOF and we know what happened when they went to the playoffs toghter.

Jeff Garcia is a good QB, but I don't think he is that good

Mcnabb Choker
Romo Choker

Maybe it is the QB's that TO has had in the playoffs. Of course his locker room shenanigans could have effected them, but I won't put all the blame on TO for the way his teams failed in the playoffs.
Look at the QBs Art Monk had lol...compare his postseason production to T.O.'s...Hell, look at the QBs Santana Moss has had in the postseason, and look how similar his stats are to T.O.'s, but nobody has ever claimed Santana made any team a Super Bowl contender. Moss has had Pennington, Brunell and Todd Collins, but is right there with T.O. in terms of stats and production in the playoffs.

Owens averages 4.5 receptions per playoff game.
Santana averages 4.13 receptions per playoff game.

Owens averages 61 yds per playoff game.
Santana averages 53 yds per playoff game.

Owens averages 0.46 TDs per playoff game.
Santana has averaged 0.50 TDs per playoff game.

Owens' teams in the playoffs: 4-9
Santana's teams in the playoffs: 3-5

[HeHateMe]

Miles Austin is going to be better than Fitz.

Watch.

[Califan007]

By the way...


Young is a HOF and we know what happened when they went to the playoffs toghter.

Yeah...they went 3-3 and Owens averaged 3.7 receptions, 50 yards and 0.33 TDs per game.

[MLSKINS]

By the way...


Yeah...they went 3-3 and Owens averaged 3.7 receptions, 50 yards and 0.33 TDs per game.

Man whatever Rice was still on those teams too.

Edit: I still don't understand how you can put it all on TO.


Marino couldn't do it
Chris Carter didn't do it
Moss hasn't done it yet
Barry Sanders didn't do it

All those are people who never won a super bowl. Not becasue of them it was the people around them. Football is a team game.

Look at Elway, what did he do before he got some real help.

[Califan007]

Man whatever Rice was still on those teams too.

Edit: I still don't understand how you can put it all on TO.


Marino couldn't do it
Chris Carter didn't do it
Moss hasn't done it yet
Barry Sanders didn't do it

All those are people who never won a super bowl. Not becasue of them it was the people around them. Football is a team game.

Look at Elway, what did he do before he got some real help.
You'll have to point out where I "put it all on T.O.", as you said...you'll also have to point out where I said any team with T.O. on the roster will never make the Super Bowl.

But as bubba stated perfectly, though, claiming that T.O. will play a significant role in getting a team to the Super Bowl is based not on facts but just on unsupported opinion. The playoffs are where players who genuinely deserve to be described as "getting their team to the Super Bowl" come to the forefront, and do so regularly. That ain't T.O., sorry.

[MLSKINS]

You'll have to point out where I "put it all on T.O.", as you said...you'll also have to point out where I said any team with T.O. on the roster will never make the Super Bowl.

But as bubba stated perfectly, though, claiming that T.O. will play a significant role in getting a team to the Super Bowl is based not on facts but just on unsupported opinion. The playoffs are where players who genuinely deserve to be described as "getting their team to the Super Bowl" come to the forefront, and do so regularly. That ain't T.O., sorry.

I thought you were putting on TO because you are comparing him to Larry Fitz. Easily he and Warner are two big reasons they are in the SB. Other two is most defiantly the Cardinals revival on defense and Edge's revival in the running game. Which brings me back to my original point, TO can't do it by himself, nobody can. I think it is not fair to compare him to Larry Fitzgerald because Larry Fitz has a better cast around him. And don't even try to talk about those Eagles and Cowboys team because we just saw in the last two months that they are not who we thought they were.

[Califan007]

I thought you were putting on TO because you are comparing him to Larry Fitz. Easily he and Warner are two big reasons they are in the SB. Other two is most defiantly the Cardinals revival on defense and Edge's revival in the running game. Which brings me back to my original point, TO can't do it by himself, nobody can. I think it is not fair to compare him to Larry Fitzgerald because Larry Fitz has a better cast around him. And don't even try to talk about those Eagles and Cowboys team because we just saw in the last two months that they are not who we thought they were.
Again, NOBODY HERE said T.O. had to do it by himself...and as you pointed out, I compared hm to Fitz because Fitz has done what too many in the media (and before now, too many here) claim T.O. would do: play a significant role in a team making it to the Super Bowl. I used Fitz' performance to basically say "If what is being said about T.O. were actually true, you would have seen a performance like what Fitz has produced this postseason...THAT'S the type of receiver/player who deserves the label of "Will get you to a Super Bowl", not Owens."

[MLSKINS]

Again, NOBODY HERE said T.O. had to do it by himself...and as you pointed out, I compared hm to Fitz because Fitz has done what too many in the media (and before now, too many here) claim T.O. would do: play a significant role in a team making it to the Super Bowl. I used Fitz' performance to basically say "If what is being said about T.O. were actually true, you would have seen a performance like what Fitz has produced this postseason...THAT'S the type of receiver/player who deserves the label of "Will get you to a Super Bowl", not Owens."

Ok I get what you are saying. My beef isn't with you it is with the media.

I am quitting anyway. Last month I was defending Romo now I am defending TO???? I think I am going to stay away fro the ATN for awhile.

[Califan007]

Ok I get what you are saying. My beef isn't with you it is with the media.

I am quitting anyway. Last month I was defending Romo now I am defending TO???? I think I am going to stay away fro the ATN for awhile.
:rotflmao:

Yeah, might wanna lay off whatever it is you're drinking if you find yourself defending either lol :)...Could be worse, though...MissU28 said in the Tailgate that she thought Tony Romo was hot lol :doh:...

[Ingtar]

Miles Austin is going to be better than Fitz.

Watch.

Better at what?

I really hope you are being sarcastic....

[tr1]

Miles Austin is going to be better than Fitz.

Watch.

:doh::doh::doh:

:rotflmao:

[Ingtar]

:doh::doh::doh:

:rotflmao:

My reaction exactly. If he really believes that, he is drinking way too much of Jerrah's kool aid.

[MLSKINS]

:rotflmao:

Yeah, might wanna lay off whatever it is you're drinking if you find yourself defending either lol :)...Could be worse, though...MissU28 said in the Tailgate that she thought Tony Romo was hot lol :doh:...

Yeah I saw that in the who is hot that nobody else think is hot thread, lol.

[Dance04]

HHM should get a 2 day ban for that one. wow.

[Ken]

http://extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=278189

from sticky-thread linked above:

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Ok, agreed.

Fitz has played better than Owens in playoff games.

You point is not really what I or anyone else was arguing. Where in that thread did you say Fitz is the guy that could carry a team to the super bowl?

If you can point that out, I'll be impressed. Until then, who cares about this silly assertion?

[HeHateMe]

My reaction exactly. If he really believes that, he is drinking way too much of Jerrah's kool aid.

And Sam Hurd is going to be better than both of them combined.

[DGreen28reigns]

I was actually shocked when I saw him in their post game press conference. He was in there neatly dressed with his reading glasses on and hair up, and seemed very articulate and down to Earth. Seemed like a pretty good guy.

Sad, but that's never how I pictured him based on the image of other "diva" recievers like TO and Plaxico. I just assumed he would fit right into that crowd.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was very impressed with his entire demeanor during his press conference.