School seeks to forfeit 100-0 win [Archive]

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 10:54 AM

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=903780

DALLAS -- A Texas high school girls basketball team on the winning end of a 100-0 game has a case of blowout remorse.

Now officials from The Covenant School say they are trying to do the right thing by seeking a forfeit and apologizing for the margin of victory.

Samantha Peloza grabs a rebound in practice a week after their 100-0 win.

"It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened," Kyle Queal, the head of the school, said in a statement, adding the forfeit was requested because "a victory without honor is a great loss."

The private Christian school defeated Dallas Academy last week. Covenant was up 59-0 at halftime.

I read this story and it hit home since I coach girls B-ball. I don't find what they did wrong, but a few things should have been done differently.

1. with the score the way it was at halftime, the bench should have been put in and every starter benched.

2. After the 3 period, the coach of the lopsided win should have gone up to a ref and requested an ending to the game.

I found this very interesting: a quote from the team:

There is no mercy rule in girls basketball that shortens the game or permits the clock to continue running when scores become lopsided.

Acually there is. Since they are a high school team I would assume that they follow the same guidelines and rules that every high shool in the nation follows, which is the NFHS rules.

These rules allow for a running clock if the score is lopsided. And second, according to the rules, they also allow the refs to forfeit a game.

Section 5 article 4 A ref may declare the game a forfeit when conditions warrant.

Now, I'm sure by the 3rd period the score was well above 60 or 70 points and the other team never scored. I would safely say that that warrants a forfeit.

If nothing else, this falls on the refs. But the coach should have either waited for a time-out or called one and requested the game end. The refs would have been well within their powers to honor that request.

My final point. I've been in blow outs. None this large, but I've had opposing coaches angry that my bench warmers were beating them. As a coach, even if we are ahead and I put in my bench warmers, I do not tell them NOT to play their hardest. I also do not keep in my starters and pummle them.

If the other team cannot even compete with the benchwarmers, than that's their problem not mine. If I had been in this game, I would have requested the refs stop the game. it's not only good sportsmanship but honorable.

renaissance

January-23rd-2009, 10:57 AM

I saw this on sportscenter this morning. Wasn't the losing team from some kind of special needs school?

Either way it's embarassing that the coach of the winning team let things get that far.

MattFancy

January-23rd-2009, 10:58 AM

I agree that this should be just as much on the refs too. I'm sure they could have told the coaches they were calling the game because it was a blowout. The coach on the winning team should have told his team to stop shooting 3s after the 1st half. I think I read in there that they were still shooting 3s in the 3rd quarter. The other team only has 8 players on its team so they are already at a disadvantage compared to other teams. 100-0 is a bad beat, but honestly, how do you not score 1 point in basketball?

RonJeremy

January-23rd-2009, 10:58 AM

I wonder why there was no rule in place to end the game when it became that lopsided.

At least in High School football if one team is up by 35 in the second half...you go to a running clock. Meaning the game clock never stops except for timeouts. The clock even runs after TD's are scored, during the extra points, and while the teams are lining up for kickoff. If the margin becomes less than 35 it goes back to a typical clock situation.

Major Harris

January-23rd-2009, 11:08 AM

Acually there is. Since they are a high school team I would assume that they follow the same guidelines and rules that every high shool in the nation follows, which is the NFHS rules.
nfhs is a guideline that each state uses, but each state has their own rules. there is no running clock in wv.

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 11:31 AM

nfhs is a guideline that each state uses, but each state has their own rules. there is no running clock in wv.

These are national rules. And if that is the case than they choose not to follow the NFHS rules.

I acually did some research and WV uses these rule (NFHS) these schools probably don't follow them.

Mickalino

January-23rd-2009, 11:32 AM

Too late....they should have thought of that when they were crushing the other team. So now, let them suffer in the misery of that 100-0 win as punishment.

greenspandan

January-23rd-2009, 11:38 AM

how does forfeiting help? if i were on the losing end i'd feel even more pathetic that the winning team felt so bad for us that they wanted to give us a free victory.

DieselPwr44

January-23rd-2009, 11:38 AM

They were up 59-0 at half and yet they were still bombing three's,trapping and pressing in the second half.

Dallas Academy has since went on to call the rest of their schedule off and stop the girl's basketball program for the rest of this season.

Nice job Covenant. Way to go..........[/sarcasm]

Lloyds' Mongolian Beef

January-23rd-2009, 11:38 AM

IMO, asking for a forfeit is more disrespectful than actually beating them on the court.

Mickalino

January-23rd-2009, 11:38 AM

how does forfeiting help? if i were on the losing end i'd feel even more pathetic that the winning team felt so bad for us that they wanted to give us a free victory.

how about a tie ? :D

TheREALJBird

January-23rd-2009, 11:40 AM

I think it's more pathetic that the other team couldn't make a single basket.

DieselPwr44

January-23rd-2009, 11:41 AM

IMO, asking for a forfeit is more disrespectful than actually beating them on the court.

They should've thought about that when they were up by 80+ in the second half.

What sane person tells their team to keep pressing and bomb from three point land when you're up 80-0??

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 11:46 AM

They were up 59-0 at half and yet they were still bombing three's,trapping and pressing in the second half.

If that part is true, then that coach should be fired. This is high school. What kind of lessons are you teaching about sportsmanship and class and Christian values here?

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 11:46 AM

I think it's more pathetic that the other team couldn't make a single basket.

I think this comment is even more pathetic than anything else in this thread.

Kosher Ham

January-23rd-2009, 11:47 AM

MattFancy

January-23rd-2009, 11:47 AM

the still shooting 3s and pressing after being up 59-0 at half is what i find to be in poor taste. it wouldn't be fair to tell your kids to stop making shots, but you can at least call of the press and tell them not to shoot 3s.

endzone_dave

January-23rd-2009, 11:50 AM

Running up the score like that is pathetic.

If you get blanked that bad you really need to look at getting that girls team into a different league. In a city that large, there has to be alternatives to that league.

Lloyds' Mongolian Beef

January-23rd-2009, 11:50 AM

They should've thought about that when they were up by 80+ in the second half.

What sane person tells their team to keep pressing and bomb from three point land when you're up 80-0??Let me clarify that I think what they did on the court was awful, but it was well within the rules. I just don't see how a forfeit changes that or makes it right.

Raub

January-23rd-2009, 11:54 AM

What makes it funnier (not funny "haha", but funny :doh:) is it was a Christian school doing this to a special needs school. Way to go. Jesus never stopped pressing either!

greenspandan

January-23rd-2009, 11:54 AM

Kosher Ham

January-23rd-2009, 12:01 PM

wow, now that is one misguided, ugly sentiment. these are children playing high school basketball, not professionals in a heated rivalry (leaving aside the fact that running up the score is bad sportsmanship even in pro sports). how does an adult human allow himself to become so drained of compassion? the world you live in must be a truly miserable one.

Ugly or not it is true.

Kids these days are soft. Take the beating learn from it move on. Get better or quit.

Every kid is not a winner.

EDIT: And I am far from miserable. I love life and I love people. I just hate when people try to make excuses for kids. They have to learn responsibility and accountability at some point. Today is as good as any other day.

terrifNick21

January-23rd-2009, 12:06 PM

DieselPwr44

January-23rd-2009, 12:07 PM

Ugly or not it is true.

Kids these days are soft. Take the beating learn from it move on. Get better or quit.

Every kid is not a winner.

EDIT: And I am far from miserable. I love life and I love people. I just hate when people try to make excuses for kids. They have to learn responsibility and accountability at some point. Today is as good as any other day.

Translation: "Sweep the leg"

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:09 PM

Kosher Ham

January-23rd-2009, 12:11 PM

The Redskins and Cowboys are professionals.

What, in your view, is the purpose of high school amateur sports?

The purpose is to make money for the school.

And that is the truth.

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:13 PM

The purpose is to make money for the school.

And that is the truth.

High school girls basketball makes money for the school?

That's news to me.

herrmag

January-23rd-2009, 12:14 PM

Ugly or not it is true.

Kids these days are soft. Take the beating learn from it move on. Get better or quit.

Every kid is not a winner.

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2007_Mr._Woodcock/tn/2007_mr_woodcock_002.jpg

Henry

January-23rd-2009, 12:19 PM

I have mixed feelings about running up the score on a special needs school with 20 students.

However, if you DO run up a 100-0 score and you later feel bad about it. Do NOT offer to forfeit the game. The last thing someone wants after taking a beat-down is pity. That's just making it worse.

Don't further insult their effort by forfeiting. Learn from your experience and move on. I guarantee you that's what they are doing.

Hersh

January-23rd-2009, 12:20 PM

The purpose is to make money for the school.

And that is the truth.

The only two sports that normally make money for a school are football and the boys basketball team. And that is the truth.

As the head coach of a softball team that routinely dominates other teams, I've spoken with coaches before hand asking them what they would like me to do. Even if they say not to let up, I always do when you get up 15-20 runs. You can teach a lot as a coach including respect towards others. Embarrassing other teams by running up the score doesn't teach anyone a single lesson.

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:32 PM

You can teach a lot as a coach including respect towards others. Embarrassing other teams by running up the score doesn't teach anyone a single lesson.

Sure it does. If the lesson is to be a ruthless, gloating bully.

GibbsFactor

January-23rd-2009, 12:35 PM

Sure it does. If the lesson is to be a ruthless, gloating bully.

And that, my friend, is a lesson in reality. Is it not?

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:38 PM

And that, my friend, is a lesson in reality. Is it not?

Yes. A lesson for the other team that there are complete tools in this world.

What that coach has taught his own kids, well, it's more like "how to BE a complete tool."

Kosher Ham

January-23rd-2009, 12:39 PM

Gloating ? They are considering a forfeit. Sportsmanship is clearly not the issue here.

Kosher Ham

January-23rd-2009, 12:43 PM

High school girls basketball makes money for the school?

That's news to me.

You would think that FedEx would sell beer for 4 bucks a pop. Realistically, they almost assume everyone has had a few before they step in and still charge 8 bucks a beer.

And yes, HSWBB can make money if the team is good enough.

I have no problem with them not taking the night off for this team regardless of what team it was.

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:43 PM

Gloating ? They are considering a forfeit. Sportsmanship is clearly not the issue here.

You are out of your mind.

They are covering their azzes the day after. That game was the definition of bad sportsmanship.

I have two daughters that play basketball. If either of them were on that winning team, I would pull them. If the school didn't apologize, I would pull them from the school too.

The school, however, is trying to apologize, and I respect that. The coach is the one who I don't respect. And anyone here who defends him, well I am losing respect for as well. Not that they would care.

Kosher Ham

January-23rd-2009, 12:46 PM

You are out of your mind.

They are covering their azzes the day after. That game was the definition of bad sportsmanship.

I have two daughters that play basketball. If either of them were on that winning team, I would pull them. If the school didn't apologize, I would pull them from the school too.

The school, however, is trying to apologize, and I respect that. The coach is the one who I don't respect. And anyone here who defends him, well I am losing respect for as well. Not that they would care.

Teaching children to settle for less than perfection is why we have so many ignorant parents and children in this current society.

Strive to be the best, and when you lose, get up and brush yourself off to get ready for the next battle.

Destino

January-23rd-2009, 12:47 PM

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:48 PM

You would think that FedEx would sell beer for 4 bucks a pop. Realistically, they almost assume everyone has had a few before they step in and still charge 8 bucks a beer.

And yes, HSWBB can make money if the team is good enough.

I have no problem with them not taking the night off for this team regardless of what team it was.

Not running up the score to 100-0 against a special needs school would be "taking the night off"? I hope you are never put in charge of coaching children in any sport.

DieselPwr44 was right.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/834/sweepthelegbt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

SkinInsite

January-23rd-2009, 12:50 PM

I remember the whining that took place here when the Patriots just worked the Redskins.

Destino

January-23rd-2009, 12:50 PM

The school, however, is trying to apologize, and I respect that. The coach is the one who I don't respect. And anyone here who defends him, well I am losing respect for as well. Not that they would care.Easy on the outrage amigo. Some people have different ways of viewing sport. I disagree with you here but not with your reasons. Ultimately we agree that the losing team shouldn't be insulted. You think that running up the score is an insult, I think letting up (which the losing squad would notice) is a greater insult.

I don't think bad teams should be taunted or humiliated. But then I don't think 0 is humiliating if you fought your ass off and ended up with 0. If I played a one on one with a mid grade college player I wouldn't score either.

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 12:54 PM

Easy on the outrage amigo. Some people have different ways of viewing sport. I disagree with you here but not with your reasons. Ultimately we agree that the losing team shouldn't be insulted. You think that running up the score is an insult, I think letting up (which the losing squad would notice) is a greater insult.

I don't think bad teams should be taunted or humiliated. But then I don't think 0 is humiliating if you fought your ass off and ended up with 0. If I played a one on one with a mid grade college player I wouldn't score either.

High school girls.

Special needs school with 20 students.

Pressing and trapping when up 80-0.

Yeah, I'm being silly in my outrage.

GibbsFactor

January-23rd-2009, 01:00 PM

Yes. A lesson for the other team that there are complete tools in this world.

What that coach has taught his own kids, well, it's more like "how to BE a complete tool."

I'm looking at this differently.

The winning team now knows how it feels to be a complete tool. Most likely, these young ladies will want to limit being a tool moving forward.

The losing team knows that they suck really bad and will always strive to be better at everything they do.

So the moral is, less tools, more winners!

:D

PleaseBlitz

January-23rd-2009, 01:04 PM

Is there a shot clock in HS? I mean, it takes a lot of jacking up shots to score 100 points, even if you were playing 5 on zero.

Dan T.

January-23rd-2009, 01:08 PM

A high school coach who continues to press and have a team shoot 3 pointers while ahead by 60 points is a disgrace to the coaching profession and should be removed from his job.

In basketball it is very easy for a coach to back off in the spirit of sportsmanship without being overly obvious about it.

Kosher Ham I pray that you never coach young kids.

Dan T.

January-23rd-2009, 01:13 PM

=Ultimately we agree that the losing team shouldn't be insulted. You think that running up the score is an insult, I think letting up (which the losing squad would notice) is a greater insult.

Again, in basketball there are many ways to "let up" in the spirit of sportsmanship without it being overly obvious. The most direct is to stop the full court trap press. Play a zone. Sit your starters. Work on passing the ball on offense before putting up a shot.

This coach seemed hell-bent on scoring 100 points in the game, and didn't give a **** about sportsmanship. It was a disgrace.

PleaseBlitz

January-23rd-2009, 01:15 PM

Again, in basketball there are many ways to "let up" in the spirit of sportsmanship without it being overly obvious. The most direct is to stop the full court trap press. Play a zone. Sit your starters. Work on passing the ball on offense before putting up a shot.

This coach seemed hell-bent on scoring 100 points in the game, and didn't give a **** about sportsmanship. It was a disgrace.

Just run the Dean Smith 4 Corners offense.

TorresA

January-23rd-2009, 01:15 PM

I have a question? When is it ok to run up the score? Someone said it would be fine to run up the score on the Cowboys cus they are professional ( I think think it is ok to run up the score just because they are the cowboys.) But college teams are not professional, and I would say it is in their benefit to run up the score, if not Oklahoma probably wouldn't have been in the title game.

I have always thought that if a team was killing another team and you put in your 3rd string QB RB, line, etc it is ok to keep playing the same way. Looking back at when I played in high school (we weren't that good) but our back up QB never got on the field. And if he got on the field just to hand off the ball it is hurting the experience of guys on the good team that regularly doesn't get a chance to play.

All that said there are special circumstances, such as this case, and the idea of pressing and such is not in good taste.

Major Harris

January-23rd-2009, 01:15 PM

These are national rules. And if that is the case than they choose not to follow the NFHS rules.

I acually did some research and WV uses these rule (NFHS) these schools probably don't follow them.

like i said, most, probably all use NFHS rules, but there are variances state to state.

in maryland, if a team is up 35 in football, it's a running clock in the 2nd half. not so in va (i think) or wv.

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 01:22 PM

Is there a shot clock in HS? I mean, it takes a lot of jacking up shots to score 100 points, even if you were playing 5 on zero.

Just trap in the backcourt against a team of retards who lack the skills to inbound the ball under pressure. You'll get a zillion layups. Yeehaw!

Dan T.

January-23rd-2009, 01:23 PM

This part turned my stomach.

..."spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points."

Hersh

January-23rd-2009, 01:28 PM

It's not so bad to sorta run up a score when all your backups are playing and you want to make sure they get opportunities to succeed, but after they've played some there are easy ways to limit how bad things get.

Forehead

January-23rd-2009, 01:34 PM

Well, this is a touchy subject and I agree with both sides. Predicto is right in some respects, 59-0 at half...80-0...that's all just a bit much. I was a referee for local youth basketball for a few years...and I remember that if one team was up by 15 or more, you were no longer allowed to full court press, you had to wait until the other team to cross midcourt. I understand this is high school, but you would think something similar could be instituted here. Not asking the other team to stop playing, but limiting the damage to some degree, especially considering the school on the bad end of this was special needs. That just hurts to read.

Now then, to play devil's advocate, I do actually agree that each generation of kids is softer than the previous generation. My father grew up in a railroad town of about 50,000...they had one little league team for the entire town, traveled to play against neighboring towns. If you didn't make the top 12 or 15 or whatever, you were cut, try again next year. Cuts in little league, unheard of in today's world where everyone gets to play.

By the time I got to little league or youth soccer, my teams were good, but I noticed that I got a trophy whether my team finished in 1st or 5th at the end of each season. That confused me when I was younger...why were we getting trophies when we obviously sucked? Anyway, I really do think little things like that contribute to a sense of entitlement among youth, like they deserve rewards no matter what the outcome is, and I don't think it prepares them very well for the real world. That and parents threatening to sue the school because little Johnny got a D in math.

A lesson in humility here and there is not a bad thing for kids to experience, but 100-0 is more than a lesson, that is way overboard and I think the coach of the winning team should be questioned about it harshly. I'll probably coach my kids in sports when the time comes, and I'll probably buy the team trophies even if they come in dead last, but a small part of me will wonder if I'm doing them a dis-service down the road.

Major Harris

January-23rd-2009, 01:39 PM

guys, i agree kids need to toughen up, be held more accountable, all of the above.

embarassing them @ sports isn't how you do that. even in the days of the tough childhoods of the 70's and 80's, it wasn't cool to press when you're up a ton of points.

you pull your starters, and let the end of your bench play it out. no need to embarass kids.

it's unsportsmanlike, and, as an AD, had it been one of my coaches i would have pulled the kids for him.

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 01:51 PM

Let me clarify that I think what they did on the court was awful, but it was well within the rules. I just don't see how a forfeit changes that or makes it right.

It's called sportsmanship. everyone is aware who is the better team and rather than rub it in, you call it. Most cities and schools have a mercy rule in place.

It's why when you are up BIG you play your bench warmers. It's something bilichek of the Patriots doesn't posses......sportsmanship.

jnhay

January-23rd-2009, 01:51 PM

I think this comment is even more pathetic than anything else in this thread.

So losing a game by 100 points and not making one basket isn't pathetic?

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 01:56 PM

I don't see the problem with "running up a score." Why should a team take a team that's not that good lightly? I mean if you don't wanna get beat, regardless of what level, don't step on the court/field. I know when I played HS football, I didn't wanna lighten up on the other team when we were clearly going to win. We practiced year round to win games on Friday nights. Call is poor sportsmanship or whatever, but it's not. It's the other teams job to stop you and score themselves. If they can't, why feel sorry for them. We're all human. It's not right or wrong, it's just the way I feel on the subject.

I mean no disrepect with my comments. You are 20 so you have much to learn (as yoda once said)

I agree with you up to a point. by the 3rd when it was 80-0 I think you have proven that you can destroy the other team. At that point it isn't about playing hard, but calling the game. Sportsmanship is about being a good player, but also about treating the other team with respect even though you want to beat them.

Once you have proven who is the better team, and 80-0 I think establishes that, you call it off as to not embarass the other team even more. IT IS THE RIGHT thing to do.

The sad part your post is that you have obviously been coached by someone who has no sportsmanship or class, which is really sad.

Had this been the NBA or NFL or other pro league, I would side with you. But since it's only kids, the adults need to lead by example and they did not.

PokerPacker

January-23rd-2009, 01:57 PM

perhaps there should be a mercy rule, but you shouldn't have to tell a bunch of kids to stop playing their best.

Lloyds' Mongolian Beef

January-23rd-2009, 02:00 PM

It's called sportsmanship. everyone is aware who is the better team and rather than rub it in, you call it. Most cities and schools have a mercy rule in place.

It's why when you are up BIG you play your bench warmers. It's something bilichek of the Patriots doesn't posses......sportsmanship.Why did you quote my post and then give this reply? The two are completely unrelated. I agree it was unsportsmanlike, but if there was a rule that wasn't enforced, that's the refs fault. As I said earlier, forfeiting the game accomplishes nothing.

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 02:02 PM

Personally I am more insulted if my opponent lets up and actually tries NOT to run up the score. Sports are about rivals going after eachother 100% and seeing who wins as a result. It's disrespectful to me for the other guy to take his foot off the gas because I can't keep up. That is rubbing it in more IMO than simply playing hard and shaking hands at the end.

100-0 is nothing to be ashamed about for the winning team. That was the result of these two teams playinng eachother. In sports sometimes you get your butt kicked and sometimes it can be a pretty hard kick.

Offering a forfeit after the fact is adding insult to injury in this case in my opinion. The winning squad should never have apologized and should have instead simply said "sometimes the stars align in a crazy way and you have a huge victory" and complimented the losing team for at least keeping up a good effort despite having no luck the whole night.

You philosophy would be argeable in pro sports, however we are dealing with kids. Kids who need to learn by example. I am sad to say that your example above proves why we have so many asses in society today. Win at all costs.

It's one thing to win, but at some point ESPECIALLY with kids, one must teach sportsmanship. IMO playing to win when your up 80-0 is not only arrogent, unsportmanlike but also a piss poor example to your players and teaches them every wrong life lesson we as adults should be teaching them

As another poster has said before me, I hope you never coach kids sports as I am worried of the kind of poor example you would bestow upon them.

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 02:05 PM

So losing a game by 100 points and not making one basket isn't pathetic?

Not as pathetic as thinking that this situation represents good sportsmanship in any way, shape or form.

:whoknows:

TD_washingtonredskins

January-23rd-2009, 02:43 PM

perhaps there should be a mercy rule, but you shouldn't have to tell a bunch of kids to stop playing their best.

I will address this a couple ways...

I agree that you should never tell kids to play down, but especially in basketball, you can easily call off the dogs. There are aggressive ways to play and there are passive ways to play.

Also, how about patting your starters on the back and getting them out of the game at halftime. Then, when the 4th quarter rolls around, get your second-string out of the game.

Finally, work on a zone defense or 4-corners offense. Those might even come in handy later in the year when YOU are playing a team that is better than you and you need to protect your players on D or shorten the game on O.

Zguy28

January-23rd-2009, 02:56 PM

If that part is true, then that coach should be fired. This is high school. What kind of lessons are you teaching about sportsmanship and class and Christian values here?I couldn't agree with you more.

Who is there coach? This guy?

http://www.flipsidesports.net/cobrakai2.jpg

Predicto

January-23rd-2009, 03:15 PM

I couldn't agree with you more.

Who is there coach? This guy?

http://www.flipsidesports.net/cobrakai2.jpg

beaten like a rug, Zguy! :laugh:

dcoles11

January-23rd-2009, 05:06 PM

If the Redskins beat the Cowboys 100-0, I will not be sad at all.

It is up to the other team to forfeit, or take the beating. Look at college football as an example.

That team got crushed, well guess what...it happens. Suck it up and move on.

Every kid is not a winner. Stop making our children soft and weak.

No disrespet but it sounds like you have never coached before. Also, this isn't professional sports or even college athletics, its high school.

I coached baseball in Charlotte, which meant one day you were playing a great team and the next you'd be playing an inner city school. You have to be classy about it because you know the kids from the inner city are going to be completely over matched.

There is no need in winning a game 100-0. I literally could have won some baseball games 50-0 if I had wanted to, but what is the point? Teach your kids to be jerks and humiliate the other team?

This is why baseball is so much better, you disrespect my team or the game and one of your players gets a ball in hip pocket.

dcoles11

January-23rd-2009, 05:09 PM

The purpose is to make money for the school.

And that is the truth.

again it is obvious that you do not and have never coached at a school.

If you knew what you were talking about you'd realize that most every sport in high school loses money.

The purpose of girls basketball is not to make money.

Football and maybe basketball sometimes turn a profit.

PokerPacker

January-23rd-2009, 05:09 PM

This is why baseball is so much better, you disrespect my team or the game and one of your players gets a ball in hip pocket.

I prefer hockey where they just drop the gloves and go at it. or they can go around laying on some big, unnecessary hits.

dcoles11

January-23rd-2009, 05:15 PM

So losing a game by 100 points and not making one basket isn't pathetic?

It was a special needs team from a school of 20 students. Are you freaking serious with this comment?

I don't care how harsh this comment is, I hope some of you never and I mean never are in charge of kids because it is obvious you are lacking some serious people skills.

Unless you've coached a sport in high school you really have no idea what it's like.

My teams were always on the winning end of these type games but our staff as a whole took measures to make sure we didn't humiliate the other team. It's called having class.

We are talking about small time high school athletics. You guys that are comparing this to college and pro sports are so off base that it's comical.

College athletes are recruited, they get scholarship money. Pro athletes get paid, it is their profession.

Many of you in this thread should be embarrassed for your comments.

dcoles11

January-23rd-2009, 05:17 PM

Bang

January-23rd-2009, 05:37 PM

You philosophy would be argeable in pro sports, however we are dealing with kids. Kids who need to learn by example. I am sad to say that your example above proves why we have so many asses in society today. Win at all costs.

It's one thing to win, but at some point ESPECIALLY with kids, one must teach sportsmanship. IMO playing to win when your up 80-0 is not only arrogent, unsportmanlike but also a piss poor example to your players and teaches them every wrong life lesson we as adults should be teaching them

I completely agree with your sentiments in this thread.
Although playing to win and a meaure of ruthlessness are definitely positive traits in our ultra-competitive adult lives.
But that doesn't excuse this. Sports are great for character, but compassion is a strong character trait to learn as well.
I don't blame the kids,, they do what they've practiced to do.
But in reading that the parents and spectators were loudly cheering as this team sunk 3 pointer after 3 pointer and kept up a full court press with a 70 point lead,,, that gets me.

While I don't agree that a team should lay down, halftime of this blowout was more than enough to figure you could play your deepest backups, knock off the press, and play some clock killing basketball..

~Bang

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 06:34 PM

If that part is true, then that coach should be fired. This is high school. What kind of lessons are you teaching about sportsmanship and class and Christian values here?

I play in a Christian basketball league, and there are two seperate divisions, the A division (elite teams) which is about 30 percent of the league and B division (the just for fun teams) which makes up the other 70% of the league.

I play for a just for fun team, however we try our hardest to beat the A teams who usually spank us by at least 40 points. As a matter of fact, we got beat by 50 on monday. Beating a team by 40, 60, 80, 0r 100 points has nothing to do with Christian values when your in a competive environment. Playing sports is about being competitive and learning how to try your hardest to win.

I hate it when the A teams get up by 30 and start passing the ball around to burn the clock because they feel bad. I will talk to their players in mid play and tell them to play their game, so everyone can have fun, learn to try harder and become better basketball players. On the other hand, I hate it when my team lays down and doesn't play until the last second no matter how bad we are getting beat.

In this case, it is the coach of the losing teams fault for 1. not teaching his kids how to play ball properly. 2. not teaching them to play harder and fight until the very last second. Maybe the kids on the losing team should consider joining the debate team instead of playing basketball.

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 06:36 PM

While I don't agree that a team should lay down, halftime of this blowout was more than enough to figure you could play your deepest backups, knock off the press, and play some clock killing basketball..

~Bang

Yeah but playing a team that isn't playing sucks, and it is usually when people get hurt.

PokerPacker

January-23rd-2009, 06:43 PM

I play in a Christian basketball league, and there are two seperate divisions, the A division (elite teams) which is about 30 percent of the league and B division (the just for fun teams) which makes up the other 70% of the league.

I play for a just for fun team, however we try our hardest to beat the A teams who usually spank us by at least 40 points. As a matter of fact, we got beat by 50 on monday. Beating a team by 40, 60, 80, 0r 100 points has nothing to do with Christian values when your in a competive environment. Playing sports is about being competitive and learning how to try your hardest to win.

I hate it when the A teams get up by 30 and start passing the ball around to burn the clock because they feel bad. I will talk to their players in mid play and tell them to play their game, so everyone can have fun, learn to try harder and become better basketball players. On the other hand, I hate it when my team lays down and doesn't play until the last second no matter how bad we are getting beat.

In this case, it is the coach of the losing teams fault for 1. not teaching his kids how to play ball properly. 2. not teaching them to play harder and fight until the very last second. Maybe the kids on the losing team should consider joining the debate team instead of playing basketball.

yeah, in high school, our Ice Hockey team SUCKED. losing was to be expected. losing badly was common. But the very worst was when we'd play a team who would just play keep-away. that's when the game would get a bit more physical.

terrifNick21

January-23rd-2009, 06:46 PM

I mean no disrepect with my comments. You are 20 so you have much to learn (as yoda once said)

I agree with you up to a point. by the 3rd when it was 80-0 I think you have proven that you can destroy the other team. At that point it isn't about playing hard, but calling the game. Sportsmanship is about being a good player, but also about treating the other team with respect even though you want to beat them.

Once you have proven who is the better team, and 80-0 I think establishes that, you call it off as to not embarass the other team even more. IT IS THE RIGHT thing to do.

The sad part your post is that you have obviously been coached by someone who has no sportsmanship or class, which is really sad.

Had this been the NBA or NFL or other pro league, I would side with you. But since it's only kids, the adults need to lead by example and they did not.

I have a question. What's the difference in a 2-0 win rather than an 80-0 win? It's one game. One loss or win, embarrassed or not. What are the players supposed to do, give up and just screw up on purpose? I say no. It's just like the celebrations in the NFL. If you don't want them dancing, or in this case "running up the score," (which I think isn't the correct phrase because if it was 80-79 it wouldn't be considered "running up the score" because the game is closer) don't let them score. If the other team does continue to score regardless, kudos to them. I disagree with the giving up aspect. No matter how you look at it, giving up is giving up. Poor sportsmanship would be screwing around with them and doing fancy things on the court and showing out. Making shots in basketball is not poor sportsmanship.

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 07:08 PM

yeah, in high school, our Ice Hockey team SUCKED. losing was to be expected. losing badly was common. But the very worst was when we'd play a team who would just play keep-away. that's when the game would get a bit more physical.

Yep, and I bet you knew going into the season which teams were going to give you a major beat down and tried your hardest to prepare.

PokerPacker

January-23rd-2009, 07:08 PM

Poor sportsmanship would be screwing around with them and doing fancy things on the court and showing out. Making shots in basketball is not poor sportsmanship.

exactly

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 07:11 PM

isle-hawg

January-23rd-2009, 07:23 PM

If the Redskins beat the Cowboys 100-0, I will not be sad at all.

Me neither although that would be poor sportsmanship in my book..

That team got crushed, well guess what...it happens. Suck it up and move on.

Every kid is not a winner. Stop making our children soft and weak.

Wow, just WOW!!!! We should just totally humiliate these kids right? Why stop there let's also humiliate all handicaps for not being able to compete with those that aren't right?:doh:

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 07:35 PM

Me neither although that would be poor sportsmanship in my book..

Wow, just WOW!!!! We should just totally humiliate these kids right? Why stop there let's also humiliate all handicaps for not being able to compete with those that aren't right?:doh:

Maybe they should play in a different league. In all fairness, to them and the teams they are playing against.

Edit -

- Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia.

, these kids are not "handicaps".

desioreo87

January-23rd-2009, 07:54 PM

can we get to the real matter at hand, which is how do you not score 1 POINT in a game of basketball.

Honestly...

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 09:01 PM

I have a question. What's the difference in a 2-0 win rather than an 80-0 win? It's one game. One loss or win, embarrassed or not. What are the players supposed to do, give up and just screw up on purpose? I say no. It's just like the celebrations in the NFL. If you don't want them dancing, or in this case "running up the score," (which I think isn't the correct phrase because if it was 80-79 it wouldn't be considered "running up the score" because the game is closer) don't let them score. If the other team does continue to score regardless, kudos to them. I disagree with the giving up aspect. No matter how you look at it, giving up is giving up. Poor sportsmanship would be screwing around with them and doing fancy things on the court and showing out. Making shots in basketball is not poor sportsmanship.

Ok look, you need to stick with one story. No one is saying they shouldn't have played hard. What we are saying is when the score is 80-0 it's pretty obvious they aren't gonna come back and they can't keep up with other team.

Sportsmanship would entail benching your starters, not pressing and not shooting 3 pointers. IMO at the 3rd period with the score 80-0 as a coach I would ask a ref to call the game.

See what you aren't understanding, is by the 3rd period with the score80-0 there isn't anything to prove by going balls out!!! It's pretty clear that you've destroyed the other team. There is no honor in punishing them any more, and it's also the honorable thing to call the game. We are dealing with kids. not adults and not pro sports.

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 10:02 PM

Sportsmanship would entail benching your starters, not pressing and not shooting 3 pointers. IMO at the 3rd period with the score 80-0 as a coach I would ask a ref to call the game.

I have a feeling the bench would have made this poorly coached team look really bad as well. So what's the point? You can't expect for kids to stop playing to make a game fair, when the other team can't even score one single basket in three quarters. Aside from passing the ball to the other team and letting them try to score, what were they suppose to do?

The Brave Little Toaster Oven

January-23rd-2009, 10:09 PM

My team won a game 120-12.

Another time 146-54.

It was fun. Their coach said he didnt want us to take them lightly...he wanted them to learn.

GoSkins561

January-23rd-2009, 10:18 PM

My team won a game 120-12.

Another time 146-54.

It was fun. Their coach said he didnt want us to take them lightly...he wanted them to learn.

Did you apologize for the ass whooping?:)

The Brave Little Toaster Oven

January-23rd-2009, 10:21 PM

Did you apologize for the ass whooping?:)

No, I kept throwing alley-oops :ols:

81artmonk

January-23rd-2009, 10:25 PM

I have a feeling the bench would have made this poorly coached team look really bad as well. So what's the point? You can't expect for kids to stop playing to make a game fair, when the other team can't even score one single basket in three quarters. Aside from passing the ball to the other team and letting them try to score, what were they suppose to do?

Go back and read my other posts for your answer. I grow weary from explaining myself over and over again. :)

PokerPacker

January-23rd-2009, 11:05 PM

Yep, and I bet you knew going into the season which teams were going to give you a major beat down and tried your hardest to prepare.

I think we really tried our hardest against the teams we considered our rivals and we had some close games against them. We tied Paul VI every time, Langly was usually a close match (though I'll never forget the one we lost 9-8 when we out-shot them about 40-14 :mad: )

I'd like to amend my original comment about blowouts, though. There was one thing we resented other than teams that dicked around, and that was teams playing in our division that should've been playing in a higher division. They would have statesmen on their team with pinpoint accuracy on their perfect shots, but I guess they just wanted to win rather than play teams that would give them a challenge.

Lombardi's_kid_brother

January-23rd-2009, 11:49 PM

Maybe Jesus has been talking to Pete Maravich and is now a relentless gunner.

Apparently, the team was trying to get to 100.

Lombardi's_kid_brother

January-23rd-2009, 11:51 PM

Out of curiosity, is there were the evil coach from Teen Wolf ended up?

Jumbo

January-23rd-2009, 11:53 PM

What makes it funnier (not funny "haha", but funny :doh:) is it was a Christian school doing this to a special needs school. Way to go. Jesus never stopped pressing either!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Sorry, I just started reading the thread for the first time and alreayd this one cracked me up :D

GoSkins561

January-24th-2009, 11:58 AM

I keep reading about the school being a special needs school, short attention span and dyslexia are now a special needs that effect ones athletic ability? We are becoming a country of whiners.

The only problem I see is a school having a basketball team with a limited player pool (20 females) to select from and having to play against teams that are well rounded.

One solution would be to get rid of the basketball program and make arrangements for the girls to play with other teams with in the league.

DieselPwr44

January-24th-2009, 12:01 PM

The only problem I see is a school having a basketball team with a limited player pool (20 females) to select from and having to play against teams that are well rounded.

One solution would be to get rid of the basketball program and make arrangements for the girls to play with other teams with in the league.

They've already canceled the rest of their season and suspended their program.

DieselPwr44

January-24th-2009, 12:03 PM

My team won a game 120-12.

Another time 146-54.

It was fun. Their coach said he didnt want us to take them lightly...he wanted them to learn.

After you buried a three to go up 143-54 did you run by their bench and yell "suck it!!" ??

The Brave Little Toaster Oven

January-24th-2009, 12:09 PM

After you buried a three to go up 143-54 did you run by their bench and yell "suck it!!" ??

I was too busy stealing the inbound pass and dishing it for a three to go up 146-54 :silly:

GoSkins561

January-24th-2009, 05:09 PM

After you buried a three to go up 143-54 did you run by their bench and yell "suck it!!" ??

Just because a team can score points, doesn't mean they are need to be rude about it. You can win by 100 and still be humble. :2cents:

The Brave Little Toaster Oven

January-24th-2009, 05:19 PM

can we get to the real matter at hand, which is how do you not score 1 POINT in a game of basketball.

Honestly...

1) Its girls basketball

2) They only had 20 girls in the school I think

combined = 0 points in a game.

GoSkins561

January-24th-2009, 05:23 PM

1) Its girls basketball

2) They only had 20 girls in the school I think

combined = 0 points in a game.

Which also boils down to, not one of players putting forth an effort to become better at basketball otherwise they would have been able to score at least one basket.

Thiebear

January-24th-2009, 05:32 PM

There should have been rules about playing "Special Needs" children.
short of that: I don't see a problem.
I'm harsh too i guess.

I see a problem with running up the score.
I see a problem with ALL involved not just the players.
=fail.

Not being able to score even 1 basked means they shouldnt have been playing in a competition.
They should only play in exibition games that don't mean anything until they can score 1 basket.

Corcaigh

January-24th-2009, 06:09 PM

Who schedules your team to play against a side that will beat you 100-0?

Fire them, and fire the coach of the winning team for not understanding the point of High School sports.

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 10:52 AM

Who schedules your team to play against a side that will beat you 100-0?

Fire them, and fire the coach of the winning team for not understanding the point of High School sports.

Fire the coach of the winning team? why? He wasn't on the court making baskets, stealing the ball and playing the game the way it should be played.

Dan T.

January-25th-2009, 11:06 AM

Fire the coach of the winning team? why? He wasn't on the court making baskets, stealing the ball and playing the game the way it should be played.

Do me a favor. Never, ever coach children in sports. At least until you get a clue.

Die Hard

January-25th-2009, 02:03 PM

Do me a favor. Never, ever coach children in sports. At least until you get a clue.

I don't think you have to worry about it. Honestly.

It's evident by his posts that he's never coached before. And since he's 34 years old.... and carries such an ignorant position and doesn't wish to hear or learn from others.... it's unlikely he has the type of personality that would volunteer to coach anyways.

Major Harris

January-25th-2009, 02:59 PM

dh is right.....all of you guys that claim this is ok, have any of you ever coached? i'd bet a lot the answer is no. and if you did, it'd take you about 2 weeks to realize how ridiculous you sound.

Die Hard

January-25th-2009, 03:30 PM

And FYI, I think the school did the right thing removing them from future competitive play... if that's what they in fact did. If they can't be competitive in the slightest... there's simply no reason to put them in "league" play. However, an "exhibition" schedule may be in order...

However, you can sympathize with the school's want to put a program together.... after-school sports and activities IS part of a student's growth and participation... and they just want to afford their kids the same opportunities that every other child has. And I can respect that too.

dcoles11

January-25th-2009, 03:47 PM

It still boggles my mind how ignorant some of you sound in this thread.

How you have trouble making a distinction between small time girls high school basketball and college/pro sports.

Thiebear

January-25th-2009, 04:02 PM

Major Harris

January-25th-2009, 04:09 PM

Hell i didnt read the part that said:

Only Coaches need have an opinion..

i retract my opinion as it obviously doesn't matter.

But Major better not comment on ANYTHING he's not current doing in the future.

i think i either wasn't clear, or you misunderstood me. you can have an opinion. but if you think it's ok to beat a team 100-0, pressing and shooting 3's in the 2nd half / 4th quarter, i'd bet you've never coached.

i've been in for 8 years. i've seen coaches learn this one the hard way.

dcoles11

January-25th-2009, 04:31 PM

Hell i didnt read the part that said:

Only Coaches need have an opinion..

i retract my opinion as it obviously doesn't matter.

But Major better not comment on ANYTHING he's not current doing in the future.

If you do coach high school athletics or lower and you are of the opinion that the coach(es) of the team that put 100 points against a team that couldn't even score, did the right thing, then you are not a very good coach, and probably not much better of a human being.

I think Major's point was, if you have coached or do coach you would be dead set against the actions of the coaches that let this happen.

Most everyone that has coached at this level has been on both sides of a beat down and realize that class and sportsmanship come in handy when dealing with high school match ups which often bring about terrible mis-matches.

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 08:10 PM

Do me a favor. Never, ever coach children in sports. At least until you get a clue.

Why because I think it is wrong to tell kids with talent to miss baskets on purpose, let the opposing team drive the lane and score, throw the ball to the other team when inbounding the ball or basically lay down until the other team makes the game respectable?

I was at the losing end of a 50 point beat down just this past monday, in a church league, it happens. I didn't want the other team to stop playing because they were whipping us and up by 30, I wanted their A game. . I have played competitive sports in middle school, high school, college and I am still playing. I have been on both sides of the ball, the dominating merciless beat downs, and the agonizing defeats.

Here is the real problem as stated many times before, the school should not be playing ball in this league because they do not have a good enough talent pool to create a half way decent team from. When I see the 100 to 0, I see the "zero"(I didn't even know this was possible) as kids who were not trying and didn't care about playing. It also tells me, the kids didn't want to become better and probably were not practicing and or properly coached.

With that being said, I am nicer than you might think. I take a lot of interest in my kids and if they choose to play sports, I hope to teach them an above average level of healthy competitiveness. I take my son (3 yo) to my games with me, he never sees me let up, he never sees me hang my head and he will never see me be a "bad sport". As a matter of fact, I am the first guy on my team that tells my team mates to keep their mouth shut. As for coaching, I don't want to coach, however I will volunteer as an assistant on the sidelines, if my son chooses to play a sport that I am familiar with.

As for this just being "high school sports", that's a load of crap, high school sports is where it begins. This is where kids make thier name and become dominant athletes, which translates into scholarships and free college. Suppose there was a dominant player on the winning teams side and a she was being scouted by a top school at this game?

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 08:16 PM

I don't think you have to worry about it. Honestly.

It's evident by his posts that he's never coached before. And since he's 34 years old.... and carries such an ignorant position and doesn't wish to hear or learn from others.... it's unlikely he has the type of personality that would volunteer to coach anyways.

Being competetive and not agreeing with someone's position on how a game should be played/coached, is now translated into ignorant? Ha

MLSKINS

January-25th-2009, 08:17 PM

My hands are tied with this. On one hand I was pissed last year when the Pats ran the score up on us. But then I realized hey if they wanted them to stop scoring they would have made them stop.

On the other hand, I have a little brother who plays basketball and his team is good. One day they had a team 21-4 to begin a game, then the coach took the foot off the pedal. The other team almost came back and my brothers team only won by 3. Now 59-0 at the half is crazy, but anything could happen. Therefore I am going to side with the "Go for the jugular" crowd. Kind of like if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen thing.

Edit: The only problem I have with this is the press. I can see shooting threes, it aint like all of them was going in. But the press was too much.

Die Hard

January-25th-2009, 08:21 PM

As for coaching, I don't want to coach, however I will volunteer as an assistant on the sidelines, if my son chooses to play a sport that I am familiar with.

Just remember this in the future.... when your son plays a sport and encounters a team/coach who shares your current values on sportsmanship. Make sure you ask your son.... and maybe even all the kids on his team.... how they feel about that experience. And when they're done.... make sure you tell them to "man up" -- see how that one goes over.

And if you think any scouts in attendance learned ANYTHING from a game like that.... then you don't know much about scouting either.

Die Hard

January-25th-2009, 08:26 PM

Being competetive and not agreeing with someone's position on how a game should be played/coached, is now translated into ignorant? Ha

Every coach is competitive. We all have our views of how to play the game and how to coach. There isn't a single cookie-cutter method that we all fit into.

But if you believe that running up the score in amateur athletics is EVER acceptable.... then yes, you're ignorant. Really that simple.

And again, there's a reason why I called it... that you were never a coach. I was right. It was obvious to me because of one glaring point.... your ignorance.

That should tell you something.

Die Hard

January-25th-2009, 08:31 PM

but if you think it's ok to beat a team 100-0, pressing and shooting 3's in the 2nd half / 4th quarter, i'd bet you've never coached.

I have a problem with the defensive pressing.... I don't have a problem with the 3's. That's a low percentage shot.

Just like in youth football.... if a team's dominating.... I don't have a problem with their offense hucking bombs. That's a low percentage play for a variety of reason; pass blocking, route-running, qb accuracy, qb arm strength, receiver's ability to catch, etc.

What do football coaches do in a situation like that? How about giving some linemen some carries at tailback? You call dive plays with your 4th team little rookie RB. You tell the other team's coach WHERE you are running the ball... or if you're passing.

What you don't do is run sweeps or reverses with your fastest and best players. Pretty damn simple.

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 08:33 PM

Just remember this in the future.... when your son plays a sport and encounters a team/coach who shares your current values on sportsmanship. Make sure you ask your son.... and maybe even all the kids on his team.... how they feel about that experience. And when they're done.... make sure you tell them to "man up" -- see how that one goes over.

And if you think any scouts in attendance learned ANYTHING from a game like that.... then you don't know much about scouting either.

If he chooses to play sports and when gets the beat down I will teach him "Sportsmanship". I will tell him to pick his head up, shake the other teams hand and thank them.

Not to go off topic, but scouts travel, I would imagine if you are lucky enough to be scouted, especially in basketball, you better be on and dropping all of your shots. If I was a coach and that was the situation, I would encourage the student to play his / her game for the sake of their future, not let up because the other team is pathetic.

Bubble Screen

January-25th-2009, 08:41 PM

Why because I think it is wrong to tell kids with talent to miss baskets on purpose, let the opposing team drive the lane and score, throw the ball to the other team when inbounding the ball or basically lay down until the other team makes the game respectable?

I was at the losing end of a 50 point beat down just this past monday, in a church league, it happens. I didn't want the other team to stop playing because they were whipping us and up by 30, I wanted their A game. . I have played competitive sports in middle school, high school, college and I am still playing. I have been on both sides of the ball, the dominating merciless beat downs, and the agonizing defeats.

Here is the real problem as stated many times before, the school should not be playing ball in this league because they do not have a good enough talent pool to create a half way decent team from. When I see the 100 to 0, I see the "zero"(I didn't even know this was possible) as kids who were not trying and didn't care about playing. It also tells me, the kids didn't want to become better and probably were not practicing and or properly coached.

With that being said, I am nicer than you might think. I take a lot of interest in my kids and if they choose to play sports, I hope to teach them an above average level of healthy competitiveness. I take my son (3 yo) to my games with me, he never sees me let up, he never sees me hang my head and he will never see me be a "bad sport". As a matter of fact, I am the first guy on my team that tells my team mates to keep their mouth shut. As for coaching, I don't want to coach, however I will volunteer as an assistant on the sidelines, if my son chooses to play a sport that I am familiar with.

As for this just being "high school sports", that's a load of crap, high school sports is where it begins. This is where kids make thier name and become dominant athletes, which translates into scholarships and free college. Suppose there was a dominant player on the winning teams side and a she was being scouted by a top school at this game?

Dude, no offense, but you don't make a very good argument. That last sentence is ridiculous. I would like to think that a scout would not come to look at a kid, knowing the competition of the team she is playing against is really poor. There's no benefit to it. And if they did not know (the scout) that the team she was playing was this poor, then you would still like to believe that the scout would not base ANYTHING he sees in this game off of how good the player is.

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 08:42 PM

You tell the other team's coach WHERE you are running the ball... or if you're passing.

I didn't play football, however this might have to do with geography and the quality of the program but I know for a fact that high school football teams in Frederick Maryland would never share a playbook(set their own team up) with the opposing team. I remember seeing straight beat downs in the range of 50's to 7.

We are talking high school sports here, not pee wee and midgets.

Corcaigh

January-25th-2009, 08:49 PM

What you don't do is run sweeps or reverses with your fastest and best players. Pretty damn simple.

The kid's football league I used to coach in (being in Ashburn) has the kids of several current and former Redskins players. Some of them are very gifted physically. In one team my son played on the kid of a former 'skins player could score every time they ran a sweep.

His dad told the coach if he ran that play more than once he was taking his kid off the team. :)

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 08:51 PM

The kid's football league I used to coach in (being in Ashburn) has the kids of several current and former Redskins players. Some of them are very gifted physically. In one team my son played on the kid of a former 'skins player could score every time they ran a sweep.

His dad told the coach if he ran that play more than once he was taking his kid off the team. :)

Was it High School football? My guess is probably not.

Corcaigh

January-25th-2009, 08:53 PM

Was it High School football? My guess is probably not.

No. But our local team, Broad Run High School, which won a state championship this year took out all its starters in every game once they got four scores up.

Corcaigh

January-25th-2009, 08:55 PM

And to add. the dad's point was that no-one was learning anything in a game that didn't matter by relying on the physical skills of just one player.

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 09:00 PM

No. But our local team, Broad Run High School, which won a state championship this year took out all its starters in every game once they got four scores up.

I bet you the back ups didn't kneel the ball at the one yard line because they didn't want to hurt the other teams feelings?

GoSkins561

January-25th-2009, 09:04 PM

And to add. the dad's point was that no-one was learning anything in a game that didn't matter by relying on the physical skills of just one player.

I see the point, the same way the losing team isn't learning anything, if they were serious, by 1. the other team basically walking off of the court 2. having the ball given to them and open lanes to drive where they might have been able to score a lay up. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the girls on this team who were taking it seriously however something is telling me that 98 percent of them didn't even want to be there in the first place.

Corcaigh

January-25th-2009, 09:05 PM

I bet you the back ups didn't kneel the ball at the one yard line because they didn't want to hurt the other teams feelings?

Actually they treated it as a training exercise for the team - playing a "vanilla" running game on offense with a freshman back, and as a result rarely got first downs and then punting.

Dan T.

January-25th-2009, 09:24 PM

Why because I think it is wrong to tell kids with talent to miss baskets on purpose, let the opposing team drive the lane and score, throw the ball to the other team when inbounding the ball or basically lay down until the other team makes the game respectable?

NONE of that had to have happened. Anyone with half a brain, knowledge of basketball, and an ounce of sportsmanship knows how to ease off the gas without it being obvious. First, stop the full court trap press, which this team apparently applied the whole game. Work on your packed-in zone defense. On offense, work on passing the ball around before takiing a shot. Take some time off the clock. Empty your bench. Instead, the idiot coach was hell-bent on scoring 100 points, with the half-wit parents were cheering him on.

Here is the real problem as stated many times before, the school should not be playing ball in this league because they do not have a good enough talent pool to create a half way decent team from. When I see the 100 to 0, I see the "zero"(I didn't even know this was possible) as kids who were not trying and didn't care about playing. It also tells me, the kids didn't want to become better and probably were not practicing and or properly coached.

The kids on the losing team have been praised for how they continued trying and how they handled themselves through this fiasco. NOBODY said they stopped trying or quit.

With that being said, I am nicer than you might think. I take a lot of interest in my kids and if they choose to play sports, I hope to teach them an above average level of healthy competitiveness. I take my son (3 yo) to my games with me, he never sees me let up, he never sees me hang my head and he will never see me be a "bad sport". As a matter of fact, I am the first guy on my team that tells my team mates to keep their mouth shut. As for coaching, I don't want to coach, however I will volunteer as an assistant on the sidelines, if my son chooses to play a sport that I am familiar with.

"An above average level of healthy competitiveness"? That's a laughable statement in the context of this thread about a team beating another 100-0. Here's another thing to teach your kid: sportsmanship. I didn't see that word anywhere in your post.

As for this just being "high school sports", that's a load of crap, high school sports is where it begins. This is where kids make thier name and become dominant athletes, which translates into scholarships and free college. Suppose there was a dominant player on the winning teams side and a she was being scouted by a top school at this game?

Another laughable statement in the context of a 100-0 game.

jbooma

January-25th-2009, 10:07 PM

Bubble Screen

January-25th-2009, 10:17 PM

This may have already been posted but the coach was fired for the team that scored 100 points.

When I first heard the story I was pretty amazed by a team doing that to another in a highschool format. What was the worst part was they were still shooting 3's in the 4th qtr!!!!!!!!!!!

They beat a team of special needs children, so I guess the feel good for that. What was great was the girls from that team took it with a good spirit, those girls are going to be the ones who have the last laugh that is for sure.

My hat goes off to that team :notworthy:notworthy:applause::applause:

As someone already mentioned, shooting 3s up big in the 4th isn't that big a deal, really. Its not a high-percentage shot. I'm sure the team had big girls who they could've repeatedly just dumped it inside for easy buckets. Or they could have been fast-breaking for easy layups. Again, jacking up 3s is low-percentage shot. Especially when speaking of girls. "Pressing" with that big a lead, now THAT is a big no-no. No excuse for that.

jbooma

January-25th-2009, 10:35 PM

As someone already mentioned, shooting 3s up big in the 4th isn't that big a deal, really. Its not a high-percentage shot. I'm sure the team had big girls who they could've repeatedly just dumped it inside for easy buckets. Or they could have been fast-breaking for easy layups. Again, jacking up 3s is low-percentage shot. Especially when speaking of girls. "Pressing" with that big a lead, now THAT is a big no-no. No excuse for that.

It is when you are trying to score the 100 on purpose and when you have your assistant coaches screaming about it:

'She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points."

Honestly would it be horrible if you just dribble out the clock when you have the ball and take a shot clock violation???

dcoles11

January-25th-2009, 10:40 PM

Why because I think it is wrong to tell kids with talent to miss baskets on purpose, let the opposing team drive the lane and score, throw the ball to the other team when inbounding the ball or basically lay down until the other team makes the game respectable?

I was at the losing end of a 50 point beat down just this past monday, in a church league, it happens. I didn't want the other team to stop playing because they were whipping us and up by 30, I wanted their A game. . I have played competitive sports in middle school, high school, college and I am still playing. I have been on both sides of the ball, the dominating merciless beat downs, and the agonizing defeats.

Here is the real problem as stated many times before, the school should not be playing ball in this league because they do not have a good enough talent pool to create a half way decent team from. When I see the 100 to 0, I see the "zero"(I didn't even know this was possible) as kids who were not trying and didn't care about playing. It also tells me, the kids didn't want to become better and probably were not practicing and or properly coached.

With that being said, I am nicer than you might think. I take a lot of interest in my kids and if they choose to play sports, I hope to teach them an above average level of healthy competitiveness. I take my son (3 yo) to my games with me, he never sees me let up, he never sees me hang my head and he will never see me be a "bad sport". As a matter of fact, I am the first guy on my team that tells my team mates to keep their mouth shut. As for coaching, I don't want to coach, however I will volunteer as an assistant on the sidelines, if my son chooses to play a sport that I am familiar with.

As for this just being "high school sports", that's a load of crap, high school sports is where it begins. This is where kids make thier name and become dominant athletes, which translates into scholarships and free college. Suppose there was a dominant player on the winning teams side and a she was being scouted by a top school at this game?

As someone that has coached and scouted, you really should leave that up to those that have done it and undestand it. None of what you said is correct.

You are the type of parent that makes coaching a nightmare. If I was to show this post of yours to any of my friends in scouting or coaching they would all have the same opinion and I can tell ya, it wouldn't be a very good one of you.

SonOfWashington

January-25th-2009, 10:40 PM

Well Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 by himself.

Take THAT, Covenant. ;)

dcoles11

January-25th-2009, 10:54 PM

If he chooses to play sports and when gets the beat down I will teach him "Sportsmanship". I will tell him to pick his head up, shake the other teams hand and thank them.

Not to go off topic, but scouts travel, I would imagine if you are lucky enough to be scouted, especially in basketball, you better be on and dropping all of your shots. If I was a coach and that was the situation, I would encourage the student to play his / her game for the sake of their future, not let up because the other team is pathetic.

Ok since you're going to keep on bringing up this scouting thing i'm going to have to set you straight, being that i've done it before in baseball and know NBA scouts.

1. Scouts aren't dumb, if they are going to spend the time and money to go scout a player, they are going to do some research and make sure the player they are scouting will be up against decent competition. Does this mean a scout will never go see a player who is up against a terrible team? No, but it most cases yes.

2. If i'm scouting a kid, what do you think i'm going to learn about him if in the 7th inning of a 25-0 game he hits a HR off some kid throwing 55 mph and leaving it right over the heart of the plate? Answer, not much, i've learned that he can hit a BP fastball over the fence, something most every hitter in college can do.

So to say that some girl in this game could be showing off her skills infront of a scout by blowing past some girl that moves her feet like they are buried in quick sand is ridiculous.

About the only thing you could learn about a kid in a game like this is, their character. Yes, that actually does matter. You wouldn't believe how many kids get passed up because of what they do on the field before and after the game, scouting isn't just about what goes on between the lines of play.

I think you have this idea that scouts just show up at random games with no knowledge of what they are looking for, who they are looking at, and the caliber of the teams playing.

You couldn't be more wrong.

jbooma

January-25th-2009, 11:00 PM

So to say that some girl in this game could be showing off her skills infront of a scout by blowing past some girl that moves her feet like they are buried in quick sand is ridiculous.

I think you have this idea that scouts just show up at random games with no knowledge of what they are looking for, who they are looking at, and the caliber of the teams playing.

You couldn't be more wrong.

I would add the scouts knew that game would be bad so I doubt any where there to watch that. The team that loss by 100 I don't think has ever won a game.

Bubble Screen

January-25th-2009, 11:07 PM

It is when you are trying to score the 100 on purpose and when you have your assistant coaches screaming about it:

'She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points."

Honestly would it be horrible if you just dribble out the clock when you have the ball and take a shot clock violation???

Of course trying to score 100 on purpose is ridiculous. But the game really should have been stopped. Since it wasn't, you really can't expect a team to turn the ball over on purpose. And if they are backups that were in there, its not really a good idea to tell them to not play hard and try to score. You really expect a coach to tell his players to just hold the ball and take a shot clock violation? There may have not even been a shot clock.

Bubble Screen

January-25th-2009, 11:11 PM

Ok since you're going to keep on bringing up this scouting thing i'm going to have to set you straight, being that i've done it before in baseball and know NBA scouts.

1. Scouts aren't dumb, if they are going to spend the time and money to go scout a player, they are going to do some research and make sure the player they are scouting will be up against decent competition. Does this mean a scout will never go see a player who is up against a terrible team? No, but it most cases yes.

2. If i'm scouting a kid, what do you think i'm going to learn about him if in the 7th inning of a 25-0 game he hits a HR off some kid throwing 55 mph and leaving it right over the heart of the plate? Answer, not much, i've learned that he can hit a BP fastball over the fence, something most every hitter in college can do.

So to say that some girl in this game could be showing off her skills infront of a scout by blowing past some girl that moves her feet like they are buried in quick sand is ridiculous.

About the only thing you could learn about a kid in a game like this is, their character. Yes, that actually does matter. You wouldn't believe how many kids get passed up because of what they do on the field before and after the game, scouting isn't just about what goes on between the lines of play.

I think you have this idea that scouts just show up at random games with no knowledge of what they are looking for, who they are looking at, and the caliber of the teams playing.

You couldn't be more wrong.

I think I was the first one that brought up some of these points about scouting. He just doesn't get it. He completely brushed over it. That told me he didn't have a clue about what he was talking about. As they are all valid points. And im not even a scout. Don't even know one. This stuff is just common sense.

Special K

January-25th-2009, 11:42 PM

Yowza! Didn't read this thread until now. Having play sports all my life and as a current coach of varsity softball at an academy, I think what the coaches on the winning team did here was despicable. There is absolutely no excuse to run up a score like that, none.

A similar thing happened with the team I coach last year. We were playing a special needs deaf school and after the first inning it became quite evident that we were going to massacre them. Even though there is a mercy rule in girls' softball after the 5th inning to minimize lopsided scoring like this, the other coach with my team and I saw that it wasn't going to be pretty. What we did in this case, was that I discreetly talked to the assistant coach of the opposing team between innings...fortunately he wasn't a jackass like the assistant coach of the Covenant school appears to be. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I asked him what he wanted to do and he said they wanted to keep playing to give their girls more experience...which was understandable as I think it would have been an insult to the girls to stop the game unnecessarily early. So what my team did is that we started incrementaly pulling our starters from the game and playing the bench players. After the first inning, we stopped calling pitches. Finally, we had girls on our team who were at the top of the lineup work on their bunting and slap-hitting...not to an obvious extent, but we called for those a bit more than we normally do.

While many of the girls on on our team and in high level high school sports are looking for college scholarships...beating the holy hell out of a team, particularly a special needs team, is not going to prove anything, so that can't be used as a plausible excuse. Scouts are not going to be at those types of games. They are not stupid nor are they interested in seeing a potential recruit playing against a dismal team. Having had UCLA scout a couple of our ladies, I can tell you that with absolute certainty. They will be showing up at the high level tournaments and games where the competition is good.

Furthermore, even in the pursuit of high-paying collegiate scholarships, the job of high school coaches is to help instill a little sportsmanship in their athletes...at least IMO. So using scouting as an excuse in this particular case is absolutely absurd and anyone who knows what they are talking about KNOW THIS.

I think what should have happened in the case of this basketball game is that the winning coach should have conferred with the other team's coach, or assistant coach, as well as the refs to see what they thought would be appropriate. If the other team wanted to continue to play or if we wanted to try to invoke some sort of obscure rule after the 3rd quarter.

If they all wanted to continue, I would have taken out all my starters and put in my bench players who get the least amount of time during the season. I would have not let them bomb 3's or run a fast game. I'd have them focus on working on certain techniques and trying to eat up a lot of clock time during their posessions, just so the score wouldn't be so insanely high.

Having done all that I could during the game, I certainly would never ask for a forfeit afterward because I felt badly. Clearly I did everything could to minimize the lopsidedness during the game and I think it would be highly insulting to the special needs team to treat them with overbearing pity.

EDIT: Somehow the first few paragraphs of my post were cut when originally pasted so I re-added them to kind of clarify and not have my post starting in the middle of my thought process, lol.

DarrellsMyHero28

January-25th-2009, 11:46 PM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/012609dnspocovenantnu.2781526.html

Covenant coach who beat Dallas Academy 100-0 is fired
11:42 PM CST on Sunday, January 25, 2009

By BARRY HORN / The Dallas Morning News
bhorn@dallasnews.com

The Covenant School fired its girls basketball coach Sunday, the same day he posted a message on a youth basketball Web site saying he disagreed with school officials who had publicly apologized for the team's 100-0 victory over Dallas Academy.

In reporting the firing, Kyle Queal, Covenant's head of school, emphasized that former coach Micah Grimes "now only represents himself" when discussing the game, which has become a national talking point. Queal said he could not say whether the firing was a direct result of the posting and declined to answer any questions.

In a statement posted Sunday on www.flightbasketball.com, Grimes offered his first public comment since the story was first reported.

"I respectfully disagree with the apology, especially the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel 'embarrassed' or 'ashamed,' " part of the post says. "We played the game as it was meant to be played and would not intentionally run up the score on any opponent. Although a wide-margin victory is never evidence of compassion, my girls played with honor and integrity and showed respect to Dallas Academy."

Grimes also included the quarter-by-quarter scoring on his post: 35, 24, 29, 12.

At the end of his post on the Web site, which identifies him as co-founder of Flight Basketball, Grimes wrote, "So if I lose my job over these statements, I will walk away with my integrity."

Grimes did not teach or work at The Covenant School. He was in his fourth season as girls basketball coach, having built the program from a 2-19 record his first season to a state championship contender last season. Covenant, which plays larger out-of-district schools, is 6-3 this season and undefeated in its Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools district. It has informed TAPPS headquarters that it has chosen to forfeit the Dallas Academy game.

Grimes responded briefly to an e-mail request for an interview, indicating that he might speak at a future date.

On Thursday, Covenant posted a statement on its Web site that said it "regrets ... the outcome of the game with the Dallas Academy Varsity Girls Basketball team. It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened. This clearly does not reflect a Christ-like and honorable approach to competition." It was signed by Queal and Todd Doshier, chairman of the school's board of trustees.

That was also the day the national spotlight began focusing on the game, following a report in The Dallas Morning News on the 100-point shutout on Jan. 13.

Dallas Academy coaches and administrators say Covenant kept the pressure on until it reached 100 points midway through the fourth quarter.

Until Sunday, Grimes hadn't made any public comments since he e-mailed The News on Wednesday night. In that e-mail, which was also sent to Queal and athletic director Brice Helton, Grimes called scoring 100 points "unfortunate."

"It just happened," he wrote. "Please know Covenant intended no harm against them. I see this as a real learning opportunity, so we can prevent this from happening in the future."

Grimes said in his Sunday post that his team stopped applying full-court defensive pressure after the score reached 25-0 three minutes into the game, then dropped into a relatively benign zone defense and began resting its starters in favor of its three bench players.

Dallas Academy coach Andrew Lott agreed that Covenant stopped pressing at that point but returned with an alternate press later in the game.

"I am 100 percent sure," said Lott, who estimated that his team was able to take seven shots all game.

Dallas Academy, renowned for its work with students who have learning disabilities, is winless this season and has not won a game in at least four seasons.

"He's entitled to his opinion," Lott said of Grimes' assessment of the game. "If you ask 10 people about it, you might get 10 different answers."

Lott said his team did not videotape the game, hosted by Covenant, but he is certain Covenant did.

"Maybe we could look at the tape," Lott said.

Cheryl Bugg, whose daughter is one of Covenant's top players, said she didn't want to talk about the firing.

She said the parents of the team's eight players met with school officials Saturday and outlined three goals for the program:

"We want to represent Christ with the highest respect, we don't want to humiliate anyone ever and we want our students to be enthusiastic in everything they do."

I assumed someone had posted this, but the dude got canned.

My apologies if its already been posted, but I didn't see it.

Major Harris

January-26th-2009, 05:08 AM

As for coaching, I don't want to coach, however I will volunteer as an assistant on the sidelines, if my son chooses to play a sport that I am familiar with.

guys that are only interested in coaching if it's their kid throw up red flags to AD's, league directors, etc. all over the country.

GoSkins561

January-26th-2009, 06:21 AM

As someone that has coached and scouted, you really should leave that up to those that have done it and undestand it. None of what you said is correct.

You are the type of parent that makes coaching a nightmare. If I was to show this post of yours to any of my friends in scouting or coaching they would all have the same opinion and I can tell ya, it wouldn't be a very good one of you.

You know nothing about me, and what type of parent I am, so leave your judgements for yourself. You know nothing about me, I have played sports my entire life, I carry myself well, I am not cocky, I am humble in victory, and when it comes to sportsmanship, put it this way I have never had a technical for running my mouth.

As for the scouting bit, I put in one sentence and now all of the sudden we have resident experts on scouting, give me a break.

For those of you who can't seem to grasp how bad this team was, THEY COULD NOT EVEN SCORE A BASKET!!!! which means they probably couldn't play defense or pass the ball.

Major Harris

January-26th-2009, 06:22 AM

For those of you who can't seem to grasp how bad this team was, THEY COULD NOT EVEN SCORE A BASKET!!!! which means they probably couldn't play defense or pass the ball.
which is why you shouldn't re-apply the press up by 60 in the 2nd half.

GoSkins561

January-26th-2009, 06:24 AM

I think you have this idea that scouts just show up at random games with no knowledge of what they are looking for, who they are looking at, and the caliber of the teams playing.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Again Mr. Scout I apologize if I am being rude but that is not what I was thinking. I am sure they know exactly who they are going to look at, I am sure they have had communication with the given student, and I am sure the coaches are well aware of their attendance. Thanks for clearing it up.

Major Harris

January-26th-2009, 06:26 AM

I am sure they have had communication with the given student.

actually, probably not.

Henry

January-26th-2009, 08:01 AM

I saw the team practicing on some early show. They are horrible. Really horrible. They should not be competing against anyone. My team of 7 year olds could beat them, and I am dead serious. After seeing them, I have changed my view a bit. The winning coach was put in a no-win situation.

Then the coaches definitely should have worked something out at halftime. I don't know if either coach tried, but I know how uncomfortable it is to play against a team that you completely overmatch like that.

Without being at the game I couldn't tell whether or not the winning coach went overboard. But the fact that his team scored more points in the third quarter then it did in the second tends to support what the opposing coach said. 12 points in the fourth looks right. Obviously the winning team was capable of cooling the jets more than it did. Had my team been winning 50-0 in the second quarter I'd have done whatever I could to get to the end of the game as quickly and painlessly as possible and then I'd talk to the opposing coach and tell him that I couldn't play his school again until they field a semblance of a competitive team.

The school publicly apologizing makes things worse. The coach publicly disagreeing with the apology makes things even more worse. ("I can't help it if they suck that bad." .... what the hell is he thinking?)

This whole thing could have been handled much better.

stanleys

January-26th-2009, 08:35 AM

I wonder what the response would be if we go to war, the area is 100% terrorists no human shields and we win in the casualties game 100 to 0.

There'd be a vocal contingent screaming how unfair it was.

This is America where punishing the winners in the name of equality is the norm. Windfall tax the ones doing it right and bailout the ones doing it wrong.

Rocky21

January-26th-2009, 08:51 AM

I wonder what the response would be if we go to war, the area is 100% terrorists no human shields and we win in the casualties game 100 to 0.So now we are comparing a high school girls' basketball team running up the score on a special needs opponent to war, terrorists and casualties? That's a great analogy ND.

dcoles11

January-26th-2009, 08:58 AM

I wonder what the response would be if we go to war, the area is 100% terrorists no human shields and we win in the casualties game 100 to 0.

Seriously? So now you are comparing a battle in a war to a low level, mis-matched girls high school basketball game?

Yes, how could you not see the parallels between the two.

:doh:

Special K

January-26th-2009, 09:06 AM

I am sure they have had communication with the given student, and I am sure the coaches are well aware of their attendance.
Um, no. It doesn't happen that way, really, it doesn't.

I wonder what the response would be if we go to war, the area is 100% terrorists no human shields and we win in the casualties game 100 to 0.
:wtf:

This is America where punishing the winners in the name of equality is the norm. Windfall tax the ones doing it right and bailout the ones doing it wrong.

Oh please. :rolleyes:

I saw the team practicing on some early show. They are horrible. Really horrible. They should not be competing against anyone. My team of 7 year olds could beat them, and I am dead serious. After seeing them, I have changed my view a bit. The winning coach was put in a no-win situation.
No, there was a lot the winning coach could have done to minimize that situation...it appears he did not do any of that. His public statements after that game also give credence to the notion that he really didn't do jack squat to teach his players about good sportsmanship.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that THIS IS A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL. I coach at a Christian school and while we aspire to be competitive and excel in athletics, our first priority is to represent Christ in everything we do...including athletics. I honestly do not personally know any coaches who would run up a score in this manner.

Die Hard

January-26th-2009, 09:23 AM

I think a lot of people are forgetting that THIS IS A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL. I coach at a Christian school and while we aspire to be competitive and excel in athletics, our first priority is to represent Christ in everything we do...including athletics. I honestly do not personally know any coaches who would run up a score in this manner.

Re-read some of NavyDave's previous posting history.... where he repeatedly proclaims to be a morally superior God-loving Christian.... without knowing or practicing any of its principles.

I'd laugh.... if I didn't already exhaust from laughter reading his posts the past 10 years.

Here's a fellow, Dave Cisar, who runs a Christian football program:

http://www.winningyouthfootball.com

In the past 7 years.... the man has a 98% winning percentage as a coach... and a prolific offensive system that puts up 35+ points a game. And he runs his own football program with 7-8 teams.

And if any coach ever scores more than 50+ points in a game.... they get fired. He's a guy who's team is so dominant... that he practices with his defense to GIVE UP touchdowns to weaker team -- without making it obvious -- to make the opponent feel good about themselves. Here's a coach that... in the post-game lineups..... has his teams give a can of pop to each player on the opposing team.

That's a guy who I can respect.... because he gets it. You can win... and you can do it the right way... and win with dignity and sportsmanship.

Special K

January-26th-2009, 09:41 AM

That's a guy who I can respect.... because he gets it. You can win... and you can do it the right way... and win with dignity and sportsmanship.
Yeah, I absolutely agree with this.

One saying of my dad's that I will never forget is "the best way to evaluate someone's true character is to observe their actions on the playing field." I believe this to be 100% true of not only players, but coaches as well.

Also, I think coaches at a Christian academy ESPECIALLY have more of a responsibility to teach their players about true sportsmanship and how what they do on the field is a respresentation of Christ's character to many people...even though the kids often times don't realize it. I think this notion has been proven in this thread just by judging from the sheer number of posts comparing Christian principles to this team's actions...

Predicto

January-26th-2009, 12:09 PM

Every once in a while, something on the Tailgate genuinely surprises me. This thread is mindboggling.

GoSkins561

January-26th-2009, 09:39 PM

Yeah, I absolutely agree with this.

One saying of my dad's that I will never forget is "the best way to evaluate someone's true character is to observe their actions on the playing field." I believe this to be 100% true of not only players, but coaches as well.

Also, I think coaches at a Christian academy ESPECIALLY have more of a responsibility to teach their players about true sportsmanship and how what they do on the field is a respresentation of Christ's character to many people...even though the kids often times don't realize it. I think this notion has been proven in this thread just by judging from the sheer number of posts comparing Christian principles to this team's actions...

In all fairness, scoring 100 points against a hopeless team doesn't make you a bad Christian, it is how those 100 points are scored. If you score those points because the other team can't handle the ball, they are traveling, double dribbling, passing the ball out of bounds, not inbounding the ball properly and basically haning the ball to you, the kids were just playing the game. Now, if they are taunting, high fiving, rubbing it in, and being cocky then that is a different story.

Last Monday we got whipped by 50 , by a well rounded team of former college players and shooters, it happens. I didn't want them to hold back because they were up by 30 with 15 minutes to go in the second half, I wanted them to play their game. I wanted the press, I wanted the challenge of fighting for every single point even though we knew a butt kicking was at hand. I didn't look at them after the game and think, "what a bad bunch of unsportmanlike Christians running up the score and playing the basketball in such an unfair way" because they played hard, they played with integrity and they were humble about it.

I have a problem with missing shots on purpose, not putting your hands up to defend the ball, letting the other team drive, not taking a ball that hits you in the hand as a defender, and basically laying down in a competitive environment such as a High School Basketball circuit. It is obvious to me, the losing team had no business being on the basketball court and were struggling just to understand the basic fundamentals of the game, which is the main reasons why we were having this conversation.

Major Harris

January-27th-2009, 04:45 AM

In all fairness, scoring 100 points against a hopeless team doesn't make you a bad Christian, it is how those 100 points are scored. If you score those points because the other team can't handle the ball, they are traveling, double dribbling, passing the ball out of bounds, not inbounding the ball properly and basically haning the ball to you, the kids were just playing the game. Now, if they are taunting, high fiving, rubbing it in, and being cocky then that is a different story.

Last Monday we got whipped by 50 , by a well rounded team of former college players and shooters, it happens. I didn't want them to hold back because they were up by 30 with 15 minutes to go in the second half, I wanted them to play their game. I wanted the press, I wanted the challenge of fighting for every single point even though we knew a butt kicking was at hand. I didn't look at them after the game and think, "what a bad bunch of unsportmanlike Christians running up the score and playing the basketball in such an unfair way" because they played hard, they played with integrity and they were humble about it.

I have a problem with missing shots on purpose, not putting your hands up to defend the ball, letting the other team drive, not taking a ball that hits you in the hand as a defender, and basically laying down in a competitive environment such as a High School Basketball circuit. It is obvious to me, the losing team had no business being on the basketball court and were struggling just to understand the basic fundamentals of the game, which is the main reasons why we were having this conversation.

you're right. it isn't about the score. sometimes that is inevitable. it's how you handle the situation.

empty the bench the whole 2nd. half. NO press of any kind, zone defense. hell, use it as a coaching tool. no buckets with your dominant hand. or no 3's or layups, you have to practice the lost art of the mid-range jumper. at least 5 passes before a shot. it's not hard to be a good sport. cheering to get to 100, reinserting the press to help you do so...that's jackass.

Special K

January-27th-2009, 05:05 AM

In all fairness, scoring 100 points against a hopeless team doesn't make you a bad Christian
I never claimed otherwise. Never did I say these people were "bad" Christians.

Dan T.

January-27th-2009, 07:40 AM

you're right. it isn't about the score. sometimes that is inevitable. it's how you handle the situation.

empty the bench the whole 2nd. half. NO press of any kind, zone defense. hell, use it as a coaching tool. no buckets with your dominant hand. or no 3's or layups, you have to practice the lost art of the mid-range jumper. at least 5 passes before a shot. it's not hard to be a good sport. cheering to get to 100, reinserting the press to help you do so...that's jackass.

And that's what the coach, and so many people in this thread, just can't seem to grasp. Sad really.

TD_washingtonredskins

January-27th-2009, 08:11 AM

This thread simply amazes me. How anyone can think that it's OK to purposely running up the score on a weaker opponent in HIGH SCHOOL basketball baffles me!

I'm glad the coach got canned since it will now reinforce that I'm not crazy for thinking he was completely in the wrong here.

Like many, I played 3 sports all through high school. My teams dished out and received our share of beat-downs through the years. One thing that was constant through all of those games was a sense of sportsmanship. You can impose your will and defeat an opponent without humiliating or embarrassing that opponent.

When teams are comfortably winning games, there are many things that can be done to throttle things down without being obvious about it or "giving up" or "not trying hard" for sure.

In basketball alone (since it was my best sport and the most relevant to this discussion) there are many offensive and defensive strategies that could have been employed that would have kept the score down:

Zone defense
Motion offense with minimum number of passes required before a shot (think Hoosiers)
Starters on the bench after one quarter
Backups on the bench after halftime
Third-stringers working on fundamentals (not trying to get in the box score at all costs)

Many of these strategies would help this team down the road when they are playing an equal or better team.

Good, solid teams (and coaches) respect the game and sport they are playing (or coaching) especially at the youth/high school level.

wysknz1

January-27th-2009, 08:43 AM

When I reffed soccer I would ask the winning coach in a blowout to discreatly pull players and pass the ball more. If they didn't I would call the game.

Really when it's a blowout there are things to work on with your team, passing dribbling work the court/field etc.

Sooner or later what goes around comes around.

GoSkins561

January-27th-2009, 12:43 PM

Zone defense
Motion offense with minimum number of passes required before a shot (think Hoosiers)
Starters on the bench after one quarter
Backups on the bench after halftime
Third-stringers working on fundamentals (not trying to get in the box score at all costs)

Many of these strategies would help this team down the road when they are playing an equal or better team.

Good, solid teams (and coaches) respect the game and sport they are playing (or coaching) especially at the youth/high school level.

I am not sure about minimum number of passes before a shot, however the coach did say he went into a soft zone and put his back ups in.

I was listening to the radio a few minutes ago and there are other coaches around his league coming to Grimes defense saying he wouldn't cheer on a 100-0 route.

It appears to me, the scoreless team couldn't even grab a rebound, which probably translated into at least 50 of the 100 points. As far as raining threes, hey, when your on your on. They could have probably done a little more to kill the clock such as passing and burning up the shot clock.

Henry

January-27th-2009, 02:06 PM

They scored 24 or more in the first three quarters, 12 in the fourth. Obviously they were capable of gearing down a lot more than they did a lot earlier than they did.

Whether or not they should have is really the issue here. Not whether or not they could have.

GoSkins561

January-27th-2009, 10:13 PM

DieselPwr44

January-28th-2009, 05:34 AM

So much for letting the kids play the game, kind of reminds me of our government. :rolleyes:

So much for teaching them class and sportsmanship.

This is worse than war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's girls high school basketball!!!!

NO MERCY!! I want to see blood!!

SWEEP THE LEG

GoSkins561

January-28th-2009, 06:26 AM

So much for teaching them class and sportsmanship.

This is worse than war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's girls high school basketball!!!!

NO MERCY!! I want to see blood!!

SWEEP THE LEG

Why is a ref calling a game? IMO that is complete b.s. I would rather see the kids run and burn energy, generally speaking if you can't take a loss without whining maybe sports are not for you.

pointyfootball

January-28th-2009, 06:37 AM

This is a topic I feel pretty comfortable addressing, as I played on some horrible football/rugby teams as well as some very good ones. Additionally, I've coached quite a bit of youth soccer, flag football and basketball where my teams have been blown out sometimes but also been the dominant team at other times.

There are many times when no matter what you do, it's going to be a lopsided victory. What I learned was that I had to plan (before the season's games ever started) how to handle blowouts, both as the winning, and the losing, team. You can't decide at halftime of a 5-0 soccer game how you are going to make it more difficult for your players to score, as most likely you will put restrictions on them that result in them hurting their development instead of helping. Point is, all it takes is a LITTLE bit of thought ahead of time to at least give the effort needed to show sportsmanship.

We were playing a travel soccer game last year, and our team was getting destroyed by a team up near the beltway. With 2 minutes left in the game, it was 8-0, and the opposing coach called out to his fullbacks and keeper to "get involved" on their cornerkick. So, he moved the fullbacks up to the edge of our penalty area, and the keeper up past midfield to play any "stray" ball back into the PA. Trying to make a point to the coach, I loudly asked the ref what the score was, to which the baffled ref replied, "7-0". The opposing coach corrected the ref by stating that the score wasn't 7-0, but rather 8-0. In his case, he's a paid coach and I suppose he feels the more goals his team scores, the more "worth it" he appears to the parents/club.

Regarding this basketball game, there was/is so much wrong on several levels, IMO. Without knowing the kids/coaches true intentions, it is hard to assign guilt. However, if indeed they were running a press defense late in the game and were trying to score a 100 points, it's despicable and the coach should have been fired. I also question why they're even competing against this other team, as it does NO one any good to have to even play a game like that. Additionally, does anyone think that this is the first time the coach has shown this type of hyper-competitiveness? I wonder if the school is going to far the other way due to the bad publicity, when the coach has probably not changed his style for years.

PF