Washington State Senate Democrats Sponsor Cig tax hike

[ljs]

wow, at $1 per pack?? Thank God I don't smoke.

http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=9742254


OLYMPIA, Wash. - Democrats in the state Senate say Washington should raise its cigarette tax by $1 per pack.

They're backing a bill at the Legislature to raise the tax and spend the money on health programs. The main sponsor is Sen. Rodney Tom, D-Medina, who is No. 2 on the Senate's powerful budget committee.
Supporters say the cigarette tax hike would raise about $99 million per year. They also say polls show the public would vote for such a tax. That's crucial because a public vote is the only realistic way of getting a tax passed under current laws.

[tryfuhl]

If we're going to tax vices start with the ones that bother everyone!

Dumbass people will still pay it.

[ljs]

or they will just drive the 20 min to the Idaho state boarder....at least that's what a lot of local smokers do.

I had no idea they cost so much til a friend asked me to pick her up a carton the other day cuz I was in Idaho. $32 per carton in Idaho. I think it's $45 or something in WA?? I recall that as a teen they were in the $2 per pack range, but it's around $6 per pack now.

[tryfuhl]

That's the people that live 20 mins from it which is far from the whole state.

[Stophovr6]

or they will just drive the 20 min to the Idaho state boarder....at least that's what a lot of local smokers do.

I had no idea they cost so much til a friend asked me to pick her up a carton the other day cuz I was in Idaho. $32 per carton in Idaho. I think it's $45 or something in WA?? I recall that as a teen they were in the $2 per pack range, but it's around $6 per pack now.

WA state has about 6.5 million people, half of which live in the Seattle metropolitan area. The tax will bring them lots.

[dcoles11]

I wish they'd raise it North Carolina. I'm so sick of walking into a bar and getting sick from all the smoke and having my clothes smell like I was standing next to fire all night.

Vices are all well and good as long as they only effect you, cigarette smokes effects eveyone around you, it is one of the most annoying and disgusting habits in the history of the world :)

[twa]

Try not going to the bar...at least you have that option.

Whiny bitches,next there are gonna outlaw booze in the bars.

[Larry]

Recall reading in a James Bond book, where Bond reflects that he'd read a briefing, once, that an intense hatred of tobacco is one sign of a psychopath. One exhibited, for example, by Hitler.

But I agree with you. Worst habit ever.

My brother said he had a friend in college. Friend had a routine whenever asked "do you mind it I smoke?". Response was "Do you mind if I fart? Filthy habit. Tried to quit, once. Started to gain weight."

[ljs]

haha...funny one Larry.

They banned all smoking in public places here, except of course at the Indian Casino's. I LOVE IT. and you can't smoke w/ in 25 feet of an entry to any public building.

The only thing that really bugs me these days about smoking, are the people at work who use the elevator and smoke. That thing reeks. Thankfully my knee is healed up enough I can take the stairs again.

[dcoles11]

Try not going to the bar...at least you have that option.

Whiny bitches,next there are gonna outlaw booze in the bars.

So now I should have to stay away from the bar because I can't stand being effected by a choice others make? How about the smokers stay at home and pollute their own environments instead of spreading their cloud everywhere?

As far outlawing booze, that's a just dumb comparison. I can sit at a bar and drink all damn night long and as long as I have a DD i'm not bothering anyone. The same cannot be said about cigarette smokers.

[tryfuhl]

Recall reading in a James Bond book, where Bond reflects that he'd read a briefing, once, that an intense hatred of tobacco is one sign of a psychopath. One exhibited, for example, by Hitler.

But I agree with you. Worst habit ever.

My brother said he had a friend in college. Friend had a routine whenever asked "do you mind it I smoke?". Response was "Do you mind if I fart? Filthy habit. Tried to quit, once. Started to gain weight."
I've never had a cigarette.. but we're about to hit the hookah in the privacy of our own home where it won't bother others!

Stop being whiny and go outside to smoke.

[Buford]

I agree with taxing the hell out of it. While they are at it, legalize Weed....tax it to like $20 a pack of joints and use that money for this economy.

[twa]

So now I should have to stay away from the bar because I can't stand being effected by a choice others make? How about the smokers stay at home and pollute their own environments instead of spreading their cloud everywhere?

As far outlawing booze, that's a just dumb comparison. I can sit at a bar and drink all damn night long and as long as I have a DD i'm not bothering anyone. The same cannot be said about cigarette smokers.

You are destroying tradition you ingrate,can't you even give up a lung for old times sake?....Hell ya got two of em.:D

How about we let the business owners decide?:cool:

[Cooked Crack]

I would definitely vote for a cigarette tax hike. I don't smoke cigs so it doesn't affect me and just maybe people will smoke less. It would definitely be a good source of money.

[twa]

I would definitely vote for a cigarette tax hike. I don't smoke cigs so it doesn't affect me and just maybe people will smoke less. It would definitely be a good source of money.

I agree,hell boot it up to $5 a pack for them filthy things.

Just keep ya taxes off my cigars

[addicted]

Cigerttes like McDonalds are two things that people will continue to do in good economies and bad. The problem with this taxation is the same thing as hiking up food prices, the lower grade end products become more attractive to the common consumer. The better healthier products sell less because they cost more, the more harmful cheaper priced products are used more to meet the changed demand. All of which eventually leads to sicker people and more expensive costs of everyone's health care. The cronic smoker changes addictions and the nonsmokers pay more to insurance companies. If you really truely have ever cared for the guy you see working a **** job making barely over minimum wage the worst thing you can do is to raise the taxes on cigerettes. Doing that hurts everyone.

Or you can give a damn less for the guy who wants to smoke because you can't see the bigger picture because hey your rich, who care's about paying more for medical claims? You can afford it! Or maybe you might admit the underlying issue here is people's greed. You think you deserve a better road and a cleaner park but you don't want to have to pay for it yourselves. It's certainly not as if the smokers are the only ones to use these public places right? Its a damn shame that for some of you to demand that smokers be the only ones to pay higher taxes so you benifitl. Just how much can Washington do with 99 million dollars?

What I really like to trip out on is thinking about what's next for the local Governments to cash in on after this cash cow has evaporated? An easy one is guns. I can see the government say next that the price of guns will be taxed so heavily since they are used as the most common murder weapon and hurt other people that to stop anyone from buying a common handgun or rifle its going to cost you $10000. Hey they solved the problem with guns and now everyone's safer right? How would you gun owning posters like that? How would you anti gun folks like that?

Yet since I know some of you don't have guns, how about the next thing they tax up a buck is the price of gas? You drive, you pay. The emmissions emmited from a vechile hurt everyone. Would you like to pay that along with the price guaging oil producer prices ontop of the already taxed to death price of gas?

This is bogus and really stupid thing to support. If you want to be fair tax smokers $1 more per pack but make it so that only the money rasied is spent on things those people are the ONLY ones to use. Give these people paying more taxes more breaks then the guys who aren't paying as much in tax. But what do I know? I could be wrong as hell about this. Maybe all of you on here are actually right about this? I've been wrong before, it wouldn't be the first time.

[Cooked Crack]

Cigerttes like McDonalds are two things that people will continue to do in good economies and bad. The problem with this taxation is the same thing as hiking up food prices, the lower grade end products become more attractive to the common consumer. The better healthier products sell less because they cost more, the more harmful cheaper priced products are used more to meet the changed demand. All of which eventually leads to sicker people and more expensive costs of everyone's health care. The cronic smoker changes addictions and the nonsmokers pay more to insurance companies. If you really truely have ever cared for the guy you see working a **** job making barely over minimum wage the worst thing you can do is to raise the taxes on cigerettes. Doing that hurts everyone.

The guy making minimum wage should find a better way to manage his funds than wasting it on smokes. Maybe he should try saving up.

[da#1skinsfan]

I agree with taxing the hell out of it. While they are at it, legalize Weed....tax it to like $20 a pack of joints and use that money for this economy.

Agreed. All day every day.

While we're at it, have legalized brothels strategically placed in the states that will support it.

These dudes are paying the cathouse thousands for an hour. We can legalize that, throw a 20% tax on it and eliminate income tax for the COUNTRY.

Stupid bible beaters...this stuff is happening. May as well sanction it and tax the hell out of it to make ALL our lives better.

[Prosperity]

Cigerttes like McDonalds are two things that people will continue to do in good economies and bad. The problem with this taxation is the same thing as hiking up food prices, the lower grade end products become more attractive to the common consumer. The better healthier products sell less because they cost more, the more harmful cheaper priced products are used more to meet the changed demand. All of which eventually leads to sicker people and more expensive costs of everyone's health care. The cronic smoker changes addictions and the nonsmokers pay more to insurance companies. If you really truely have ever cared for the guy you see working a **** job making barely over minimum wage the worst thing you can do is to raise the taxes on cigerettes. Doing that hurts everyone.

I don't think the price of the brands is a function of how safe they are

[Koolblue13]

The guy making minimum wage should find a better way to manage his funds than wasting it on smokes. Maybe he should try saving up.

They do say they are more addictive than Heroin ya know.

[Popeman38]

Here's a thought: Tax the hell out of cigarettes, generating enough revenue for localities to clean up parks. Then, with the forward thinking govt we have, make it illegal for the smokers who funded the improvements to enjoy the refurbished park while they smoke. Genius!

[ljs]

If you really truely have ever cared for the guy you see working a **** job making barely over minimum wage the worst thing you can do is to raise the taxes on cigerettes. Doing that hurts everyone.

Or you can give a damn less for the guy who wants to smoke because you can't see the bigger picture because hey your rich, who care's about paying more for medical claims? .

WTF???? that is laughable. Sounds like you're saying that only poor people smoke and it's the rich who want to tax? Did you read the damn title? It's the DEMOCRATS of my state who want to raise this tax. And the poor people? QUIT SMOKING and use your money for food so your kid won't go hungry.:doh:

[DButz65]

In MD a pack is almost $6, a carton is $50, but 10 miles away in VA a pack is $3 and a carton is like $27. I buy cartons as often as i can in VA heh




or they will just drive the 20 min to the Idaho state boarder....at least that's what a lot of local smokers do.

I had no idea they cost so much til a friend asked me to pick her up a carton the other day cuz I was in Idaho. $32 per carton in Idaho. I think it's $45 or something in WA?? I recall that as a teen they were in the $2 per pack range, but it's around $6 per pack now.

[redskins0756]

What they ought to do is raise the tax on cigarettes, legalize marijuana and tax that ridiculously, and then legalize brothels and tax that. Basically just echoing what everyone else said because from that revenue we can make up for the lost property taxes that fund things like our public schools. And considering the stress that these hard economic times put on people it would increase the demand for these products.

[Thiebear]

They taxed cigs to 7$ a pack and i quit smoking so i don't care...
They taxed fast food to 9$ happy meals and i'm on a diet and don't care...
They taxed SUV's and oversized trucks 5$ a gallon and i drive a volvo and don't care.

then they taxed my beer 5$ a 6pack and i was outraged, but nobody cared.
Then they taxed my house 4000$ extra a year, but renters just laughted.
Then they taxed vitamins 3$'s a bottle

I guess it just depends on your point of view on "what" is taxed on whether you care.

No business or product that is legal should be taxed any different than another business or product. Equal taxation under the law.

[Dictator]

If we're going to tax vices start with the ones that bother everyone!
Dumbass people will still pay it.

Some yes.
Lets hope they don't over-inflate the money they hope to get from the cig tax like MD did.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/30/AR2008073003277_pf.html



Cigarette sales have dropped by nearly 25 percent in Maryland since the state's tobacco tax doubled in January, as sticker shock apparently has curtailed some residents' smoking and sent others across the border for better deals.
Maryland lawmakers voted last fall to raise the tax to $2 a pack to help bridge a budget shortfall and expand subsidized health care. Fiscal analysts predicted that the new rate, the sixth highest in the nation, would cause cigarette sales to drop off, following a pattern with past increases.
But the decline during the first six months of the year significantly exceeded their projections, exacerbating Maryland's budget problems and prompting speculation about what other factors might be at play. The tight economy, for example, has almost certainly added incentive for some to kick the habit.

[IONTOP]

No business or product that is legal should be taxed any different than another business or product. Equal taxation under the law.

But when you smoke or drink you're SINNING!!!!! We have to make people stop...

Actually I would kinda be indifferent as to not being able to smoke in bars, because when you go outside to smoke, you've already got something in common with the chick you've been checking out all night and can start a two sided conversation easily... Just like at FedEx, all the smokers congregate and start talking about X and Y, I remember at the Dallas game, we were talking with a couple that flew in from Dallas to see the game (Dallas fans, season ticket holders). Try getting that kind of conversation in line for concessions...

Edit: *Unless it's cold...

[Cooked Crack]

They do say they are more addictive than Heroin ya know.
Hey it's not like you don't know they are addictive before you start smoking constantly.

[addicted]

I don't think the price of the brands is a function of how safe they are

Then you would be wrong.

The cheaper brands of cigerettes use a lesser grade of tobacco that has more harmful products in there then the more expensive grade of tobacco. Every pack of cigerettes has a grade on it, if you still don't believe me go look at a premium pack vs the cheaper ones.

[ljs]

I don't think the price of the brands is a function of how safe they are


QFT

Cheap cigs= harmful and not safe

Expensive cigs= Harmful and unsafe

[addicted]

WTF???? that is laughable. Sounds like you're saying that only poor people smoke and it's the rich who want to tax?

No that's not it at all. I'm not talking about simple economics, taxing cigerettes will have a negative effect on everyone no matter what they make. Read my post again if you still think I'm saying something stupid like only poor people smoke :doh:



Did you read the damn title? It's the DEMOCRATS of my state who want to raise this tax. And the poor people? QUIT SMOKING and use your money for food so your kid won't go hungry.:doh:

Democrats/Republicans I don't give a damn which stupid group of people want to do this, its a horrible idea unless you support paying more into insurance yourself.

Frankly the obnoxious behavior and attitudes exhibited by so many of you that think you know whats best for everyone else is disgusting.

[dcoles11]

What they ought to do is raise the tax on cigarettes, legalize marijuana and tax that ridiculously, and then legalize brothels and tax that. Basically just echoing what everyone else said because from that revenue we can make up for the lost property taxes that fund things like our public schools. And considering the stress that these hard economic times put on people it would increase the demand for these products.

With as far in bed the Republican party is with the Christian right do you really think that will ever happen?

[addicted]

:notworthy


They taxed cigs to 7$ a pack and i quit smoking so i don't care...
They taxed fast food to 9$ happy meals and i'm on a diet and don't care...
They taxed SUV's and oversized trucks 5$ a gallon and i drive a volvo and don't care.

then they taxed my beer 5$ a 6pack and i was outraged, but nobody cared.
Then they taxed my house 4000$ extra a year, but renters just laughted.
Then they taxed vitamins 3$'s a bottle

I guess it just depends on your point of view on "what" is taxed on whether you care.

No business or product that is legal should be taxed any different than another business or product. Equal taxation under the law.

:applause:

I couldn't agree more. The people who support this crap simply don't see that this won't stop with cigerettes and is just the beginning. Excellent post, this issue really comes down to greed, a lack of empathy, and being too short sighted. Supporters of these kinds of ideas do not partisipate in the activity so they say "yea sure, screw that other guy get him and leave mine alone". It makes me sick

[da#1skinsfan]

With as far in bed the Republican party is with the Christian right do you really think that will ever happen?

blame the republicans blame the republicans!!!!!!

90% of the country would not support such a radical policy, not just the "evil republicans in bed with the christian right"

In fact, as a strong proponent of such measures, the most resistance I get from people when discussing this is from democrats interestingly enough. Most republicans who fashion themselves as fiscal conservatives are all for this. Lower my taxes? Do it. What do I care if my neighbor is banging 3 tranny hookers in his basement, if it cuts my property tax in half, bang away Fred.

[dcoles11]

blame the republicans blame the republicans!!!!!!

90% of the country would not support such a radical policy, not just the "evil republicans in bed with the christian right"

In fact, as a strong proponent of such measures, the most resistance I get from people when discussing this is from democrats interestingly enough. Most republicans who fashion themselves as fiscal conservatives are all for this. Lower my taxes? Do it. What do I care if my neighbor is banging 3 tranny hookers in his basement, if it cuts my property tax in half, bang away Fred.

yes I do blame the Republicans, because all of their policies have to fit very neat and tight with what the "christians want" being that they couldn't win a national election without the christian vote.

and to say 90% wouldn't country wouldn't support this is just another case of someone else making up numbers with absolutely 0 evidence to back it up.

[PleaseBlitz]

Here's a thought: Tax the hell out of cigarettes, generating enough revenue for localities to clean up parks. Then, with the forward thinking govt we have, make it illegal for the smokers who funded the improvements to enjoy the refurbished park while they smoke. Genius!

LOL, i forget what bill it was, child healthcare or something in VA that was suppossed to be funded by a cig tax hike.

Enough people quit or bought in bulk from NC that the healthcare didnt get funded, so the kids were effed.

[dcoles11]

They taxed cigs to 7$ a pack and i quit smoking so i don't care...
They taxed fast food to 9$ happy meals and i'm on a diet and don't care...
They taxed SUV's and oversized trucks 5$ a gallon and i drive a volvo and don't care.

then they taxed my beer 5$ a 6pack and i was outraged, but nobody cared.
Then they taxed my house 4000$ extra a year, but renters just laughted.
Then they taxed vitamins 3$'s a bottle

I guess it just depends on your point of view on "what" is taxed on whether you care.

No business or product that is legal should be taxed any different than another business or product. Equal taxation under the law.

I don't care if they tax cigarettes or not as long as they make the people that decide to do such a disgusting thing stay out of my way. I shouldn't have to base my life around avoiding these people that choose to do something that not only destroys their health but mine in the process if i'm around them.

Your choice shouldn't effect my health.

[Hubbs]

I agree with taxing the hell out of it. While they are at it, legalize Weed....tax it to like $20 a pack of joints and use that money for this economy.

Ding ding ding.

[PleaseBlitz]

I don't care if they tax cigarettes or not as long as they make the people that decide to do such a disgusting thing stay out of my way. I shouldn't have to base my life around avoiding these people that choose to do something that not only destroys their health but mine in the process if i'm around them.

Your choice shouldn't effect my health.

LOL, people are only allowed to smoke in like 3 places nowadays. In their own home, in (some) bars, outside (usually away from buildings). It's really not that hard to avoid them.

[ljs]

blame the republicans blame the republicans!!!!!!

90% of the country would not support such a radical policy, not just the "evil republicans in bed with the christian right"

In fact, as a strong proponent of such measures, the most resistance I get from people when discussing this is from democrats interestingly enough. Most republicans who fashion themselves as fiscal conservatives are all for this. Lower my taxes? Do it. What do I care if my neighbor is banging 3 tranny hookers in his basement, if it cuts my property tax in half, bang away Fred.

What part of STATE DEMOCRATS SPONSOR...are you guys not reading????:doh:

[ljs]

Frankly the obnoxious behavior and attitudes exhibited by so many of you that think you know whats best for everyone else is disgusting.

And you don't? ha...you must forget this is a message board, and specifically the tailgate, where all we do is post our opinons. If you don't like it, then leave.

And for me, go smoke if you want. If the government wants to tax it, I don't care. If they want to tax weed and legalize it, I don't care either.
And I can't compare that to fuel tax. Raising fuel tax can ultimately prevent someone from getting to work, food prices rise as the transportation prices rise....but how is raising the tax on cig's going to raise food prices or prevent someone from going to work? Most people need food and a job, you don't NEED cig's. Just like you don't need alcohol, or need weed...

But all in all, I'm not one for tons of tax, I just found this issue interesting. I'm laughing while you are getting pissed, which makes me laugh more. so I guess that's thanks.:silly:

[dcoles11]

LOL, people are only allowed to smoke in like 3 places nowadays. In their own home, in (some) bars, outside (usually away from buildings). It's really not that hard to avoid them.

I think it's annoying that they can smoke in bars. I like to drink and I like to watch sports with my friends. What I don't like is having my eyes get irritated, my clothes smelling like hell, and my lungs dirtied because some moron has decided it's a good idea to smoke something that is not only killing him but everyone else that is around him.

Smoking should be illegal in every building based on the simple fact that your choice harms others.

Just as if I have too much drink and decide to drive myself, I get arrested for being a moron and pontentially harming others with my stupid choice.

Your choice personal choice should not effect me.

[PleaseBlitz]

I think it's annoying that they can smoke in bars. I like to drink and I like to watch sports with my friends. What I don't like is having my eyes get irritated, my clothes smelling like hell, and my lungs dirtied because some moron has decided it's a good idea to smoke something that is not only killing him but everyone else that is around him.

Smoking should be illegal in every building based on the simple fact that your choice harms others.

Just as if I have too much drink and decide to drive myself, I get arrested for being a moron and pontentially harming others with my stupid choice.

Your choice personal choice should not effect me.

Move to DC. No smoking in bars there. Half the bars in where i live across the river are smoke free. Dont act like you cant go to a bar and watch a game without it being a smoke filled room. Well, maybe in NC, but hey, your choice to live there! :)

People's personal choices effect others everyday. Get a helmet.

[dcoles11]

Move to DC. No smoking in bars there. Half the bars in where i live across the river are smoke free. Dont act like you cant go to a bar and watch a game without it being a smoke filled room. Well, maybe in NC, but hey, your choice to live there! :)

People's personal choices effect others everyday. Get a helmet.

what is another personal choice people make that effects others? and by effect I mean in a serious manner, like health wise.

[D'KanSkinFan]

*Snap*

How about government taxing FAT on overwieght people too????????????

This country would be RICH :D

People, the tax being placed on cigs are for their illegal aliens working for them childrens healthcare. Just as I don't agree that the illegal aliens should get a stimulus check, why should I pay for their childrens healthcare?

[dcoles11]

*Snap*

How about government taxing FAT on overwieght people too????????????

This country would be RICH :D

People, the tax being placed on cigs are for their illegal aliens working for them childrens healthcare. Just as I don't agree that the illegal aliens should get a stimulus check, why should I pay for their childrens healthcare?

aren't hospitals required to treat anyone that walks through the doors whether they have insurance or not?

so if someone takes their kid into the emergeny room and ends up racking up $10K in hospital bills, without health insurance and since they can't afford it they just never pay.

doesn't that end up costing everyone else more money in the long run than it would cost to just insure them?

i'm not saying i know the answre, i'm just asking a question.

[Dictator]

what is another personal choice people make that effects others? and by effect I mean in a serious manner, like health wise.

Driving. Just look at the code red warnings during the summer thanks to the heavy amounts of smog.

[Prosperity]

Then you would be wrong.

The cheaper brands of cigerettes use a lesser grade of tobacco that has more harmful products in there then the more expensive grade of tobacco. Every pack of cigerettes has a grade on it, if you still don't believe me go look at a premium pack vs the cheaper ones.

I believe they are graded, I don't believe that the difference in grade means there is a significant difference in harm



:notworthy



:applause:

I couldn't agree more. The people who support this crap simply don't see that this won't stop with cigerettes and is just the beginning. Excellent post, this issue really comes down to greed, a lack of empathy, and being too short sighted. Supporters of these kinds of ideas do not partisipate in the activity so they say "yea sure, screw that other guy get him and leave mine alone". It makes me sick

I hope it is just the beginning

fast food types should be next

[PleaseBlitz]

what is another personal choice people make that effects others? and by effect I mean in a serious manner, like health wise.

#1, second hand smoke for 2 seconds once a day isnt effecting you in a serious manner. Is it? Do you feel a little cancer-y today?

#2, people drink and drive ALL THE TIME.

#3, people cant drive for **** when they are sober, yet they dont take driver ed or anything.

#4, all the fat people you see raise MY insurance premiums......a LOT. Even though i go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week. Now i have to have an HMO instead of an PPO, so now my medical care ****ing blows and i cant get into see a physical therapist until next Friday, even though i blew my back out 2 mondays ago. Check the workout thread if you think im making that up.

#5, The people that live below me had a loud party for the inauguration until 5 in the morning, i had to work the next day. Lack of sleep isnt good for my health.

I can keep going, this is kind of fun.

[dcoles11]

Driving. Just look at the code red warnings during the summer thanks to the heavy amounts of smog.

driving is an essential part of life. people have to drive to get through their daily lives. people have to get to their jobs. though if you wanted to get really technical you could say driving is a choice but you cannot say that it even in the same ballpark as the choice to smoke.

smoking is not essential, it is a choice, and a stupid one at that.

[dcoles11]

#1, second hand smoke for 2 seconds once a day isnt effecting you in a serious manner. Is it? Do you feel a little cancer-y today?

#2, people drink and drive ALL THE TIME.

#3, people cant drive for **** when they are sober, yet they dont take driver ed or anything.

#4, all the fat people you see raise MY insurance premiums......a LOT. Even though i go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week. Now i have to have an HMO instead of an PPO, so now my medical care ****ing blows and i cant get into see a physical therapist until next Friday, even though i blew my back out 2 mondays ago. Check the workout thread if you think im making that up.

#5, The people that live below me had a loud party for the inauguration until 5 in the morning, i had to work the next day. Lack of sleep isnt good for my health.

I can keep going, this is kind of fun.

1. second hand smoke is worse for you than the person that is actually smoking and who said it was only for 2 seconds? If i'm in a bar i'm around it for as long as i'm there.

2. there are laws against people that drink and drive, if you drink and drive and get caught you are punished. if you effect someone's life by your decision to drink and drive, your ass goes to jail. so that example does not work.

3. the choice to drive cannot be compared with the choice to smoke cigaretts. having a vehicle and driving it is essintial to most people's incomes, smoking is not essintial to anything but feeding your habit and desire to kill yourself. though it can be argued that driving is a choice, it cannot even be considered as being in the same ballpark with the choice to smoke cigaretts.

4. I agree with you 100% on health insurance going up because the choice people make to stuff their faces. but that is an economic burden not a health burden on you. also, you can lump smokers in there too, they are just as guilty as the fat people for ruining their health with a choice and making health insurance go up. so basically you made another point for me, not only do smokers hurt me health wise, they hurt me economic wise.

5. as you told me before when I said I didn't like going to bars and having to breath all the smoke from the smokers just to enjoy a beer and watch the game in my home state of NC. "I should move to DC" well you should move then, to a place where you have a bunch of old neighbors that go to bed a 9 o'clock.

[PleaseBlitz]

1. second hand smoke is worse for you than the person that is actually smoking and who said it was only for 2 seconds? If i'm in a bar i'm around it for as long as i'm there.

You KNOW people are going to smoke in bars, its why they HAVE bars. It's their choice to smoke (cause its legal) and its YOUR choice to go there. If you dont like it, dont go. Or complain to management, see if you can get them to change how their PRIVATE BUSINESS is run. If you ACTUALLY felt like it was effecting you in a negative way, you wouldnt go. But you dont ACTUALLY feel like your health is being harmed, you just like to complain.


2. there are laws against people that drink and drive, if you drink and drive and get caught you are punished. if you effect someone's life by your decision to drink and drive, your ass goes to jail. so that example does not work.

People still do it.......all the time.


3. the choice to drive cannot be compared with the choice to smoke cigaretts. having a vehicle and driving it is essintial to most people's incomes, smoking is not essintial to anything but feeding your habit and desire to kill yourself. though it can be argued that driving is a choice, it cannot even be considered as being in the same ballpark with the choice to smoke cigaretts.

Driving isnt really a choice, you are right. Driving like **** and not paying attention and talkikng on your cell phone and doing your makeup and etc etc etc is a choice, which people do all the time.


4. I agree with you 100% on health insurance going up because the choice people make to stuff their faces. but that is an economic burden not a health burden on you. also, you can lump smokers in there too, they are just as guilty as the fat people for ruining their health with a choice and making health insurance go up. so basically you made another point for me, not only do smokers hurt me health wise, they hurt me economic wise.

I just explained how it is a health burden on me. And yes, you can lump smokers in there as well, except that they pay enough in taxes to cover it and the first question you are asked when getting health or life insurance is "do you smoke?" so the rates can be adjusted accordingly.


5. as you told me before when I said I didn't like going to bars and having to breath all the smoke from the smokers just to enjoy a beer and watch the game in my home state of NC. "I should move to DC" well you should move then, to a place where you have a bunch of old neighbors that go to bed a 9 o'clock.

I choose to not ***** about things like that unless specifically asked for examples. Which brings me back to my original point, stop yer bellyaching and get a helmet.

[Dictator]

1. second hand smoke is worse for you than the person that is actually smoking and who said it was only for 2 seconds?

really?

[dcoles11]

You KNOW people are going to smoke in bars, its why they HAVE bars. It's their choice to smoke (cause its legal) and its YOUR choice to go there. If you dont like it, dont go. Or complain to management, see if you can get them to change how their PRIVATE BUSINESS is run. If you ACTUALLY felt like it was effecting you in a negative way, you wouldnt go. But you dont ACTUALLY feel like your health is being harmed, you just like to complain.

Complaining works, its the reasons states now kicking the smokers outside where they belond, my hope is that NC joins in one day.




People still do it.......all the time.

you haven't inhanced your arguement in anyway. just because people do it all the time doesn't mean it's not illegal and they don't get punished when they get caught doing it. the point is there is a consquence to doing if you get caught doing it or you harm someone else doing it, a very steep consequence.


Driving isnt really a choice, you are right. Driving like **** and not paying attention and talkikng on your cell phone and doing your makeup and etc etc etc is a choice, which people do all the time.

there are laws in some place against talking on your cell phone when you drive, I agree with it, just like their should be laws making all smokers stand outside and away from other people that don't want to be effected by their cloud of smoke. And again, if you harm someone while being an idiot and putting on your make up or doing whatever in the car their is a price to pay by law, so again this doesn't make any since to compare to smoking, because they pay no price from the law from effecting other people.



I just explained how it is a health burden on me. And yes, you can lump smokers in there as well, except that they pay enough in taxes to cover it and the first question you are asked when getting health or life insurance is "do you smoke?" so the rates can be adjusted accordingly.

basically you're arguing that fat people have it better than smokers, not sure what this has to do with the debate. I think both should suffer for their decisions and others should not, as of now smokers have it worse, oh well, quit smoking then.



I choose to not ***** about things like that unless specifically asked for examples. Which brings me back to my original point, stop yer bellyaching and get a helmet.

you did ***** about it, you brough it up as an example of people's choices effecting your health. you can't use something as an example then say you aren't bitching about. I don't have to get helmet, i'll just keep complaining and sooner or later, NC will get in line with smart places that have put smokers in their place.

Your argument would make much more sense if there wasn't already precedence for what I want done (which is smokers being told to go outside) happening in other states.

I'm not arguing or as you put it, complaining, for something that is unheard of it.

Smokers are on their way out, they are a burden on society.

[PleaseBlitz]

you did ***** about it, you brough it up as an example of people's choices effecting your health.

Because you SPECIFICALLY ASKED ME TO CITE EXAMPLES. That's not bitching, thats answering your question. You are the one whining about smokers. Hey, you dont like it. Great. Your opinion is noted and will be ignored accordingly.

[Dictator]

Dcoles, Still waiting for you to prove 2nd hand smoke is worse than actually smoking.

[D'KanSkinFan]

aren't hospitals required to treat anyone that walks through the doors whether they have insurance or not?

so if someone takes their kid into the emergeny room and ends up racking up $10K in hospital bills, without health insurance and since they can't afford it they just never pay.

doesn't that end up costing everyone else more money in the long run than it would cost to just insure them?

i'm not saying i know the answre, i'm just asking a question.

Yes, the hospital have a treatment plan in place for emergencies; and yes, they don't turn anyone away. We, American tax payers pay out the wazz zoo for this policy.;)

Your thought on "just insuring" them isn't making sense to me:)~ sorry, but they shouldn't be in this country to begin with. The reason their parents are here~ they are cheaper labor for the Congressmen and women to employ and they don't ask for benefits that Americans do, such as health insurance. They expect they will be "taken care of". (I am talkin about the illegal aliens children here) Now, I will talk about Americans having children and not being responsible to take care of them:

IMO, honestly~ there are way too many pregnancies in this country by people having children they can't afford to clothe, feed, educate or insure. Not to be harsh, and trust me I am not; but, I see and have seen people who do a "hobby" of procreation with no regards as to the final outcome of there "hobby". Why should my much needed tax money go to insure their hobby when no one supports my health insurance; and my hobby is isn't supported by tax money, either.:D;)

Yes, I have a compassionate heart~ but come one here, sex ed is taught in grade school to ALL kds~ regardless of religion, color or creed. I think the responsible question would be, "Can you be reasponsible to pay for this child~ if not~ birth control would be mandantory".

Responsibility of actions is what I think should be the issue~ and if these children are being funded by tax money for their healthcare by federal funding, then the parents should perform a local, county, state, funded job to reimburnse for the insurance coverage. Just a thought:)

[D'KanSkinFan]

Dcoles, Still waiting for you to prove 2nd hand smoke is worse than actually smoking.

Is this question in reference to cigarette smoke or pollution? There is more pollution from cars, factories, houses burning, car burning, field fire burning, trash burning, then from cigarettes. More carcenogenics too ;) in "the wind blows all around the world"~ from other countries "pollution".

Just thought I would ask, which one you are referencing:)

[addicted]

And you don't? ha...you must forget this is a message board, and specifically the tailgate, where all we do is post our opinons. If you don't like it, then leave.

Your funny



And for me, go smoke if you want. If the government wants to tax it, I don't care. If they want to tax weed and legalize it, I don't care either.
And I can't compare that to fuel tax. Raising fuel tax can ultimately prevent someone from getting to work, food prices rise as the transportation prices rise....but how is raising the tax on cig's going to raise food prices or prevent someone from going to work? Most people need food and a job, you don't NEED cig's. Just like you don't need alcohol, or need weed...

Wrong. You may point out that fuel is needed so people can get to work and all that crap but like I've pointed out here Driving hurts people just like smoking does. Now that I know how you behave towards issues that would actually affect you I can see there is no sense in talking with you.

As I've stated in this thread ideas like these are prompted and supported by those that care nothing about anything other then themselves and are far too short sighted and narrow minded to see how this will actually hurt you in the long run instead. Our government was created by people who didn't like the abuse they were forced to live under and it might not happen in my lifetime but if these kinds of things continue to happen in our country where the average person's screwed over for the elitist it will happen again.



But all in all, I'm not one for tons of tax, I just found this issue interesting. I'm laughing while you are getting pissed, which makes me laugh more. so I guess that's thanks.:silly:

Pissed? No. When and if I were to get there I'd leave the forum. Talking to you has shown me that your not on my level of intellegence so take it easy buddy. I hope you do sometime realize what the consequences will be for you if this becomes popular practice. Enjoy that cheap insurance cost for now, it's going to go up

[addicted]

:doh:


I think it's annoying that they can smoke in bars. I like to drink and I like to watch sports with my friends. What I don't like is having my eyes get irritated, my clothes smelling like hell, and my lungs dirtied because some moron has decided it's a good idea to smoke something that is not only killing him but everyone else that is around him.

Smoking should be illegal in every building based on the simple fact that your choice harms others.

Just as if I have too much drink and decide to drive myself, I get arrested for being a moron and pontentially harming others with my stupid choice.

Your choice personal choice should not effect me.

Your saying that you should have the right to make decisions for everyone everywhere in every bar you might go to and at the same time saying you don't want someone elses choices to affect you? Seriously? As long as the choice is yours then your ok with making decisions that affect everyone else?

There is a compromise, the owner of the bar should be allowed to have smokers in his establishment if he so chooses. The problem is too many people think like you do and make it so that no one has any other choice but what you decide. If a guy wants to smoke in his bar and owns the thing he should be allowed to do it. Smoking isn't against the law but too many people think they know what's right for everyone else

[addicted]

aren't hospitals required to treat anyone that walks through the doors whether they have insurance or not?

so if someone takes their kid into the emergeny room and ends up racking up $10K in hospital bills, without health insurance and since they can't afford it they just never pay.

doesn't that end up costing everyone else more money in the long run than it would cost to just insure them?

i'm not saying i know the answre, i'm just asking a question.

Yes it does

[LaxBuddy21]

I really get sick of people who want to try to tell smokers what to do and tax the hell out of them and such. I agree that my smoking habit should not affect you. I do everything I can to try to keep my smoking away from people who do not smoke. I do not even smoke in my own house. But at the same time, your choice not to smoke should not effect me. Just because you do not like smoke does not mean I should be banned from doing it. There should be smoking establishments and non-smoking establishments just the same. If you want to go to a bar and drink without smoking, go to a non-smoking bar. I should be able to CHOOSE to go to a smoking bar because I enjoy smoking when I drink.

I always love the non-smoking in bars argument. "Thats such a nasty habit! There is nothing I can't stand more than someone blowing smoking in my face while Im getting smashed off my ass!" Please! Everyone has their vices and everyone should have the choice to do so. I will not get into what the government has done to skew smoking statistics because its really a joke.

[addicted]

driving is an essential part of life. people have to drive to get through their daily lives. people have to get to their jobs. though if you wanted to get really technical you could say driving is a choice but you cannot say that it even in the same ballpark as the choice to smoke.

smoking is not essential, it is a choice, and a stupid one at that.

That's your opinion. I don't think that fits for everyone. People do harmful things to themselves all the time but no one wants to say they are making stupid choices like this.

As for your driving example, that's not the case. It is a personal choice to drive and pollute the air we all breathe. Its also a personal choice to smoke and that hurts other people too. Hell cow farts hurt everyone too and pollutes the air. Lets agree that we should either tax everything that hurts other people (PleaseBlitz) had a great list there. Guess its time to raise the tax on noise, and all of the other things too and lets let the broke ass government decide what to do with that money they collect :doh:

Might as well admit were becoming France with all of these ideas :doh1:

[addicted]

Is this question in reference to cigarette smoke or pollution? There is more pollution from cars, factories, houses burning, car burning, field fire burning, trash burning, then from cigarettes. More carcenogenics too ;) in "the wind blows all around the world"~ from other countries "pollution".

Just thought I would ask, which one you are referencing:)

Awesome! Lets increase the taxes on all of those things too while we are at it. Add more to the pile and lets let the Government take all of our money and do with it what they want to. I'm sure the Repulicans and Democrats have our best interests in mind here. Lets give all of our time and money to these guys just like we did 100's of years ago and believe all of the bull :pooh: they tell us and get away with :applause:

[dcoles11]

Because you SPECIFICALLY ASKED ME TO CITE EXAMPLES. That's not bitching, thats answering your question. You are the one whining about smokers. Hey, you dont like it. Great. Your opinion is noted and will be ignored accordingly.


Twenty-three states - Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, Utah, and Vermont – as well as the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico have passed laws prohibiting smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars.

Apparently my opinion is not being noted and ignored accodingly. But that was a fantastic attempt at trying to sound like an internet badass on your part.



don't get cranky just because your driving a car while putting on on your make up, talking on the cell phone, or driving drunk made no sense what's so ever being that all those carry consquences of the law if you effect someone else in the process of doing so.

why anyone would defend smokers I'll never know, especially when it is so easy for them to go outside and do their disgusting habit away from people that don't want to be around it.

[dcoles11]

That's your opinion. I don't think that fits for everyone. People do harmful things to themselves all the time but no one wants to say they are making stupid choices like this.

As for your driving example, that's not the case. It is a personal choice to drive and pollute the air we all breathe. Its also a personal choice to smoke and that hurts other people too. Hell cow farts hurt everyone too and pollutes the air. Lets agree that we should either tax everything that hurts other people (PleaseBlitz) had a great list there. Guess its time to raise the tax on noise, and all of the other things too and lets let the broke ass government decide what to do with that money they collect :doh:

Might as well admit were becoming France with all of these ideas :doh1:

I could honestly care less if they raise taxes on cigaretts, I don't smoke them and I honesty have no idea why anyone would, but people have the right to be idiots I guess.

My thing is, if you're going to make the personal choice to smoke, do it alone, go the hell outside, don't drag everyone else into your personal choice.

And if you don't have the manners to remove yourself for the 5 mintues it's going to take you to go outside and suck down that cancer stick, then yes, I hope they pass a law saying you cannot be in the building and smoke.

[dcoles11]

Dcoles, Still waiting for you to prove 2nd hand smoke is worse than actually smoking.

Here you go, read about all the lovely effects of 2nd hand smoke.

and if 2nd hand smoke isn't as bad as direct smoking then I was wrong but that doesn't mean it isn't harmful, which you will find if you read anything from these two links. I'm still not sure if it is or isn't, but either way, it shouldn't even matter which is worse when you read all the damage 2nd hand smoke causes to people that aren't smokers.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/secondhandsmoke/a/secondhandsmoke.htm

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

[Pwyl]

Dcoles, Still waiting for you to prove 2nd hand smoke is worse than actually smoking



Here you go, read about all the lovely effects of 2nd hand smoke.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/secondhandsmoke/a/secondhandsmoke.htm



But smokers do face the worst of it - the risks of smoking are compounded by breathing cigarette smoke in for a second time.

[dcoles11]

Congrats Pwyl, you proved that smokers get the worse of it because they also breath in the 2nd hand smoke along with already getting it 1st hand.

Which basically just proves how dangerous 2nd hand smoke is, which pretty much furthers my case as to why smokers should be told by law to go outside where they belong.

The arguement shouldn't be over which is worse, first hand or 2nd hand smoke, the discussion should be about if 2nd hand smoke is so dangerous, which it clearly is, why do other people that choose not to smoke have to be subject to it because some people decide that they want to smoke?

It shouldn't be their choice, just as driving drunk isn't a legal choice, sure you can choose to do it but you're going to pay for it.

[ljs]

Your funny
I know:silly:




Pissed? No. When and if I were to get there I'd leave the forum. Talking to you has shown me that your not on my level of intellegence so take it easy buddy.

It's buddiette to you..I'll let your over intelligent brain figure that out.

And you are correct about me not being on your level of intelligence...I passed the 5th grade years ago!

you really should relax before you have a heart attack..you're always grumpy on here I've noticed. Hell, even those of us who argue a lot, can at least joke once in awhile w/ each other.