Ted Leonsis: How to build a team

[PokerPacker]

Capitals owner Ted Leonsis was asked what the Redskins could do to build a winning team, and he responded with his philosophy in building a hockey team.


What I have learned about a rebuild to date: A 10 point plan. A Washington Capitals perspective:

1. Ask yourself the big question: "Can this team--as constructed--ever win a championship?" If the answer is yes -- stay the course and try to find the right formula -- if the answer is no, then plan to rebuild. Don't fake it--really do the analytics and be brutally honest. Once you have your answer, develop the game plan to try to REALLY win a championship. Always run away from experts that say, "We are just one player away." Recognize there is no easy and fast systemic fix. It will be a bumpy ride--have confidence in the plan--"trust and verify: the progress -- but don't deviate from the plan."

2. Once you make the decision to rebuild--be transparent. Articulate the plan and sell it loudly and proudly to all constituencies, the media, the organization, the fans, your partners, family and anyone who will listen. Agree to what makes for a successful rebuild--in our case it is "a great young team with upside that can make the playoffs for a decade and win a Stanley Cup or two."

3. Once you decide to rebuild--bring the house down to the foundation--be consistent with your plan--and with your asks--we always sought to get "a pick and a prospect" in all of our trades. We believed that volume would yield better results than precision. We decided to trade multiple stars at their prime or peak to get a large volume of young players. Young players will get better as they age, so you have built in upside. Youngsters push vets to play better to keep their jobs, and they stay healthier, and they are more fun--less jaded by pro sports.

4. Commit to building around the draft. Invest in scouting, development, and a system. Articulate that system and stay with it so that all players feel comfortable-- know the language-- know what is expected of them-- read the Oriole Way*. It worked and it is a great tutorial. Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don't deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system.

5. Be patient with young players-- throw them in the pool to see if they can swim. Believe in them. Show them loyalty. Re-sign the best young players to long term high priced deals. Show the players you are very loyal to them as compared to free agents who achieved highly for another team. Teach them. Celebrate their successes. Use failures as a way to teach and improve. Coaches must be tough but kind to build confidence.

6. Make sure the GM, coach, owner and business folks are on the EXACT same page as to deliverables, metrics of success, ultimate goal, process and measured outcomes. Always meet to discuss analytics and don't be afraid of the truth that the numbers reveal. Manage to outcomes. Manage to let the GM and coach NOT be afraid of taking risks, and make sure there are no surprises. Over communicate. Act like an ethnic family--battle around the dinner table--never in public. Be tight as a team. Protect and enhance each other. Let the right people do their jobs.

7. No jerks allowed. Implement a no jerk policy. Draft and develop and keep high character people. Team chemistry is vital to success. Make sure the best and highest paid players are coachable, show respect to the system, want to be in the city, love to welcome new, young players to the team, have respect for the fan base, show joy in their occupation, get the system, believe in the coaches, have fun in practice, and want to be gym rats. Dump quickly distractions. Life is too short to drink bad wine.

8. Add veterans to the team via shorter term deals as free agents. Signing long-term, expensive deals for vets is very risky. We try to add vets to the mix for two year or three year deals. They fill in around our young core. They are very important for leadership, but they must complement the young core (NOT try to overtake them or be paid more than them). Identify and protect the core. Add veterans to complement them, not visa versa.

9. Measure and improve. Have shared metrics--know what the progress is--and where it ranks on the timeline-- be honest in all appraisals; don't be afraid to trade young assets for other draft picks to build back end backlog-- know the aging of contracts-- protect "optionality" to make trades at deadlines or in off season; never get in cap jail. Having dry powder is very important to make needed moves.

10. Never settle--never rest--keep on improving. Around the edges to the plan, have monthly, quarterly and annual check ups. Refresh the plan when needed but for the right reasons-- "how are we doing against our metrics of success and where are we on our path to a championship." Never listen to bloggers, media, so called experts--to thine own self be true. Enjoy the ride.


This is a very impressive list, and when you look at the Capitals' roster, it is very clear that they stuck to these ten points. In 2001, Ted had fallen into the "win now" trap that many new owners do. He signed big name free agents like Jaromir Jagr and Robert Lang. When asked about the Jagr deal in retrospect, he said simply "You live and you learn" and characterized the deal as a situation in which he "let an agent put a gun to my head." Fair enough. The lessons learned from these big splash acquisitions are evident in steps #5 and #8. When Ted and his staff made the difficult decision to rebuild, an impressive chain of events followed:

Jan. 2004 - Jagr traded to Rangers for Anson Carter (freeing $24mil of the $44mil left on Jagr's contract)
Feb. 2004 - Peter Bondra traded to Ottawa for Brooks Laich and 2nd round pick
Feb. 2004 - Robert Lang traded to DET for Tomas Fleischmann, a 1st-round 2004 draft pick and a 4th-round 2006 pick.
March 2004 - Gonchar traded to BOS for Shaone Morrisonn and 1st and 2nd-round picks in the 2004 draft.
March 2006 - Brendan Witt traded to NAS for Kris Beech and 1st round pick.

With all the picks from the trades, the Caps drafted:

2004: Three #1 picks (Ovechkin, Jeff Schultz, Mike Green)
2006: Two #1 picks (Backstrom and Simeon Varlamov-G)

Added Free Agents: Kozlov (2007) and Brashear/Poti (2006). Kozlov signed for 2 years, Brashear for 1 year, and Tom Poti for 4 years. Semin was drafted in 2002 by the Caps and called up in 2004. Short-term contracts for free agents. Poti was coming off his rookie year, which validates a four-year contract.

How this applies to the REDSKINS:

I really hope Daniel Snyder has some time to read Ted's take. Snyder no doubt has learned from the past, but I still have zero confidence that the Redskins organization as a whole is on the same page. In fact, we all know it's the opposite. When a franchise has as much turnover as the Skins do in the coaching positions, how can we be "building" anything? Gibbs was a "run first" type of coach and built a team that fits his mold. Just last year we hired a West Coast offense coach that needs tall, speedy WRs. To me, this is not a process of building. Are the Skins a playoff team that can compete? Absolutely. Are we a team that is established for an extended playoff run with legit chances for Super Bowl appearances? NO. Every year when free agency starts (okay, except for last year), the Redskins take that Happy Gilmore-esque swing for the best players. The smoking gun is our aging roster and lack of depth. A large part of our defensive and offensive lines are over the age of 30. Portis has 1-2 solid years left, but there is no one groomed to take over that spot in the future (or take some of the load from him now).

Realistically, I don't think our organization has what it takes to build a franchise from the ground up. This is most evident in Snyder's reluctance to hand over the reins to a General Manager, and his creation of an enviornment where coaches seem to have the same job security as Kickers. The free agency carousel always seems to be relied upon as the Skins' best bet for a Super Bowl appearance.

Revisiting the list, the Redskins front office has continually violated ALL ten of Ted's lessons. Let's run through them real quick:

1.) "Have confidence in the plan and don't deviate from it."
The Skins definitely do not have a plan. The owner buys free agents as he sees, and coaches come and go.

2.) "Articulate the plan to the media, fans, partners..."
Dan Snyder is as secretive as it gets. Vinny Cerrato started doing the radio show, but let's be real, that does not give us any insight as to the plan. Simply, because there isn't one.

3.) "Seek a pick and prospect for every trade."
Well, we're the ones trading the picks, so in this sense, we're going backwards.

4.) "Commit to building around the draft."
The Skins only have 4 draft picks this year.

5.) "Show the players you are loyal to them."
I can't help but think of how Gregg Williams let Antonio Pierce walk when he had proven his value. At the time, Pierce embodied the hard-working, professional attitude that the coaches publicly praised, yet we let him walk. Players notice this kind of treatment where hard work is not rewarded. Pierce of course signed with the Giants where he became the defensive captain and anchor for their Super Bowl win.

6.) "Make sure the GM, coach, owner, and business folks are on the EXACT same page."
Well, Snyder and Vinny are on the same page. A blank page.

7.) "No jerks allowed."
I agree 100% with this rule. Unfortunately, it's much more difficult to follow in the NFL. Jerry Jones did not follow this at all and it BURIED him last year. (TO, Tank Johnson, and Pacman Jones). Same with Cincy. There is a reason Bill Parcells is so successful -- he shares a lot of the same ideologies as Ted.

8.) "Add veterans to short-term contracts."
This as we all know is our front-office's worst quality. Over-extending the length of contracts to aged vets. I can't help but think of the 7-year deal we signed Mark Brunell to as he was turning 34 years old.

9.) "Measure and improve - shared metrics."
I'm pretty confident the only metrics the Redskins front office measures to are dollar signs and number of wins.

10.) "Never settle - keep on improving."
This I have mixed emotions on. We have a large field of scouts, however, every year we take the shortcut with free agents. I would think we could add some low-price free agents or trade for value to build our team, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

The most important thing I learned from Ted's model is hoarding draft picks. It is inevitable that some of the drafted players will turn out to be busts. So the key is not trading the picks away to leave yourself in a situation where you have to get every pick exactly right. It will be exciting to see the Redskins "build" their team in eight hours when Free Agency starts.

* - The Oriole Way was a belief that hard work, professionalism, and a strong understanding of fundamentals were the keys to success at the major league level. It was based on the belief that if every coach, at every level, taught the game the same way, the organization could produce "replacement parts" that could be substituted seamlessly into the big league club with little or no adjustment.


http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/2/26/772915/ted-leonsis-shares-his-ten


I noticed quite a few people mentioning how they wish Leonsis would buy the Redskins because he knows how to build a team, and interestingly enough, he laid out a 10-point plan for the Mr. Snyder pro bono. Maybe he'll take a few tips?

[Soup]

Hold on the Caps never won a cup. Plus they were horrible before alexander the great came in. I'll give you that Leonsis is a great owner but Alexander is like the peyton manning of NHL. Snyder would look like a genius if he had a top QB playing with the redskins.

If there was a way to buy Tom Brady or Peyton Manning the skins would just be as great as the Caps are now. Its easy to say he's a good owner with a player like Alex on the team. I want to see how he does without him.

[PokerPacker]

Hold on the Caps never won a cup. Plus they were horrible before alexander the great came in. I'll give you that Leonsis is a great owner but Alexander is like the peyton manning of NHL. Snyder would look like a genius if he had a top QB playing with the redskins.

If there was a way to buy Tom Brady or Peyton Manning the skins would just be as great as the Caps are now. Its easy to say he's a good owner with a player like Alex on the team. I want to see how he does without him.

they were horrible after he came in as well. Hockey is not a one-man sport. you need an entire team to compete.

[Califan007]

The Skins definitely do not have a plan.
Oh, they have a plan. But 90% of the Skins fans want Snyder and Vinny to deviate from it if it doesn't yield immediate results. Look how many fans have:

1) Called for Zorn to be fired...after one year.
2) Declared last year's draft to be a bust...after one year.
3) Wanted to start Brennan...after one preseason.
4) Want Jason Taylor gone...after one injury-filled season.

and so on and so forth, blah blah...If Snyder and Vinny did what so many Skins fans have been clamoring for them to do this offseason, it would require them to scrap their current plan after just one year. Plans require patience and confidence in them. Too many fans here don't want Snyder or Vinny to show either of those traits right now.

And signing two free agents in HUGE areas of need is not a sign of not having a plan, especially when the two free agents have histories with coaches currently on the team. In fact, Vinny said that was gonna be an overriding factor in who they select in FA from now on: whether or not any of the coaches actually have worked with the players they're looking at. So they're sticking to their plan...we just don't want them to, and then claim that they really HAVE no plan. Ironic, to say the least.

[eagleskins]

Any team that has Jason Candle as their starting QB can't expect to compete.

[Renegade7]

We've never won less then 5 games under Snyder's watch, which compared to how pathetic the caps where before they got blown up, is why Snyder never felt the need to do that. We never had a 1-15, 3-13 type season, so we never had to go into that type of rebuilding mode. And like stated earlier, caps got lucky drafting someone of Ovi's caliber, but have still yet to win anything. That could change this year or the next, but the caps and the skins are two different franchises in two different sports with two different recent histories.

[Califan007]

Any team that has Jason Candle as their starting QB can't expect to compete.
Apparently any team with Jason "Candle" as their starting QB can go 3-1 in back-to-back seasons against the Eagles, though.

[bubba9497]

Any team that has Jason Candle as their starting QB can't expect to compete.


Good thing we have Jason Campbell

[scruffylookin]

We've never won less then 5 games under Snyder's watch, which compared to how pathetic the caps where before they got blown up, is why Snyder never felt the need to do that. We never had a 1-15, 3-13 type season, so we never had to go into that type of rebuilding mode. And like stated earlier, caps got lucky drafting someone of Ovi's caliber, but have still yet to win anything. That could change this year or the next, but the caps and the skins are two different franchises in two different sports with two different recent histories.

Nonsense. The difference between 3-13 and 5-11 are nonexistent. Norv and Casserly never went 1-15 either. Teams that fall that far are rare. Look at Snyder's overall record of results, still think he never should have adopted Leonisis' approach?

Also, the Caps never bottomed out either.

They had 3 bad seasons during the rebuild

2004 23-46-10-3
2006 29-41-12
2007 28-40-14

Bad records for sure, but they are the equivelent of Snyder's 5 or 6 win seasons. Of course the biggest difference is the Caps achieved those records while in the midst of rebuilding and playing their young players. Snyder's team never did that, so there's no excuse for the 10 loss seasons that he had.

The Caps haven't won anything yet?

They just started to blossom.

Last year they won the division but lost in the first round.
This year they're running away with the division and are in contention for the top spot in the league (plus own the current first seed, Boston, by beating them 3 of 4 times this season). Snyder can never say this.

So we haven't even finished year two yet and there's no question the Caps prospects for the next 5 years are much better than Snyder's.

I wish people would stop making excuses for the way Snyder does things and start holding him responsible for his failures.

[Blue Collar Skins]

1.) "Have confidence in the plan and don't deviate from it."
The Skins definitely do not have a plan. The owner buys free agents as he sees, and coaches come and go.

Have to disagree with you here. The front office has been pretty quiet the past few off-seasons, and only this off-season got 3 key players that could help the franchise. A phenomenal Defensive Lineman, an pretty good Offensive Lineman, and retained a very good young Cornerback. Heading into the draft there are two positions that could use some additional bolstering are Offensive Line and Linebacker. I can see the Front Office targetting a couple Offensive Linemen with the first pick (Oher, Monroe, Smith, Robinson, etc.). I could also see them trading down, still picking up an Offensive Lineman with the first pick, getting a good Linebacker with the second pick, and another Offensive Lineman with the third pick. I call that having an excellent plan this off-season and sticking with it.

Yes, people could say we need a new Quarterback, but they are trying to give JC one more year to develop under Zorn's coaching.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Apparently any team with Jason "Candle" as their starting QB can go 3-1 in back-to-back seasons against the Eagles, though.


Good thing we have Jason Campbell

It is a good thing this Jason Candle is nowhere near as good as Jason Campbell, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to have such an impressive start to the season as last season. Phew, good thing.

[skinsfan12]

Man, that was a good read and such a disparity. I sent it on to several friends that are hyped after the recent signings...just for their take.

While the current regime is in place, we HAVE to be aggressive in FA to maintain competitiveness. That's just the way it is right now and how the foundation is glued together, like it or not. It'll take a change at the top to move away from that philosophy. Any new owner would need to declare such a shift and manage expectations accordingly.

Rather than fume and hope for change, enjoy the stellar defense and hope for an increase in QB pressure.

.

[Canadian Hog]

Great post PokerPacker!

This is what I have been clamouring for the Redskins organization to do for about three years now.

The naysayers who claim that Snyder's plan works will argue that the Caps have not won anything yet.

However, the fact of the matter is that the Caps have now laid down a foundation for long-term success.

They are going to consistently be near the top of the Eastern Conference for the next several seasons and REALISTICALLY be able to compete for a Cup.

Meanwhile, Snyder's philosophy simply puts us in a position where we scratch and claw for the fifth or sixth playoff spot, and a road Wild Card game.

Yeah, winning championships is hard. But at the end of the day, wouldn't you rather be like the Steelers and know that every year your team has a shot of going deep into the playoffs and potentially winning it all?

The foundation that Leonis has laid down in Washington puts the Caps in a position to do the exact same thing with his hockey club.

Meanwhile, Dan and Vinny keep denying the truth, and somehow think that their next free agency acquisition puts on equal footing with the likes of model franchises like the Steelers. It's a complete joke.

[Chanhillbilly]

the caps would be where they are right now even without Ovi. Its the players around him, the intensity that the coach has brought with him and the scheme as well. Remember they were last in the division last year when BB came in and went to the playoffs with the same group of guys. Before the down turn and Fantasy Hockey spending spree by Ted, the caps held the league record for most consecutive years in the playoffs. Yeah no cup and only one visit to the final but still a trip is a trip. The wheels fell off the bus when they went after the high priced free agents, and keeping overpriced older players (jagr). Now they build through the draft and add a role player here and there (Jose Theodore, Brashear etc). Their plan works naysayers. What would you rather have a team that wins most nights (40-18-5) and has something like only 5 losses at home this year, or looking at the same 3 trophies from the 80's and 91? Current scoreboard trumps 20 years ago...

[chipwhich]

Comparing building an NHL team and building an NFL team is about as dumb a comparison as you can do.

As I have stated in many threads.

Caps got Ovechkin, without him they wouldn't be nearly as good. Ovechkin ws to the Caps what Lebron James was to Cleveland. An absolute sure thing and a franchise changer.

The Caps haven't won anything. As a matter of fact, last season they were doormats of the NHL, their were calls to FIRE George McPhee, and they were UNWATCHABLE. The team was in a shambles and attendance was down. They had to FIRE their head coach and get a LIGHTS OUT Goaltender to squeak into first place by the hair of their chin.

They still have no stanley cup goaltender on their roster.

Please lets stop the comparison. It's a dumb one. Even if they did win the Stanley Cup (which they haven't even come close) you can't compare a sport where you get to build a multi-tiered farm system, and get to pull "professional" players from other countrys "professional" leagues to come right and and play in the NHL. NFL has essentially one place to pull talent. Thats the draft.

The caps have now been good for one...count it *ONE* full season. Half of last year and half of this season. Let's see a little more than one season before we make Ted Leonsis out to be king. He has been owner longer than Snyder and has dissapointed just as much (for those of you who actually paid attention before NOW).

[jflow78]

The problem with having a "rebuilding" is that in the NFL there isn't any long-term rebuilding, and that's not just with the Skins. You look around the leauge and who "rebuilds" in the old sense? You've got teams like the Lions and Dolphins who have one horrible season and then suddenly are in the playoffs the next year. On the other side you've got teams like the Saints and Bengals who look fantastic get in the playoffs and then stink for a few years afterwards, but they aren't technically rebuilding.

I just don't think I'm convinced that "rebuilding" is the way to go in the NFL, but I'm all for getting younger, which I guess could be rebuilding it just doesn't have to take as long. The Broncos have been "rebuilding" for years and they're no better for it, they've gotten the same results as the Skins basically.

[Alvin_Walton40]

Comparing building an NHL team and building an NFL team is about as dumb a comparison as you can do.

As I have stated in many threads.

Caps got Ovechkin, without him they wouldn't be nearly as good. Ovechkin ws to the Caps what Lebron James was to Cleveland. An absolute sure thing and a franchise changer.

The Caps haven't won anything. As a matter of fact, last season they were doormats of the NHL, their were calls to FIRE George McPhee, and they were UNWATCHABLE. The team was in a shambles and attendance was down. They had to FIRE their head coach and get a LIGHTS OUT Goaltender to squeak into first place by the hair of their chin.

They still have no stanley cup goaltender on their roster.

Please lets stop the comparison. It's a dumb one. Even if they did win the Stanley Cup (which they haven't even come close) you can't compare a sport where you get to build a multi-tiered farm system, and get to pull "professional" players from other countrys "professional" leagues to come right and and play in the NHL. NFL has essentially one place to pull talent. Thats the draft.

The caps have now been good for one...count it *ONE* full season. Half of last year and half of this season. Let's see a little more than one season before we make Ted Leonsis out to be king. He has been owner longer than Snyder and has dissapointed just as much (for those of you who actually paid attention before NOW).



What Ted laid out can be applied to any professional team sport. Football, Baseball, Basketball or Hockey.

It reads like how to manage a sports franchise 101. So to blow it out of the water because Hockey gets players from outside of the draft is pretty weak.

[Buford]

Ted was smart....AND got lucky.

Ovie is a once in a lifetime player.

But that doesn't discount all the other moves they've done.

Hockey and Football are so very different.

But, I do believe Ted would be a better NFL owner than Mr. Snyder.

[chipwhich]

What Ted laid out can be applied to any professional team sport. Football, Baseball, Basketball or Hockey.

It reads like how to manage a sports franchise 101. So to blow it out of the water because Hockey gets players from outside of the draft is pretty weak.

The "plan" reads like something you buy on an infomercial.

For you guys who haven't followed hockey. Pay attention to where this team was last year to start the season. A disaster. Don't you find it a little ludicrous to call Leonsis a genius now that his "rebuilt" team has played 2 half seasons at a playoff level? That's pretty silly if you ask me. I have watched the Caps for a long time. I worked at the Cap Center, and played ice hockey. I have seen many talented teams even when Abe was in charge. The Capitals have won ZIP.

Save me the generic management speak in his how to build a franchise. Show me a Championship, then I will sit and listen...all ears.

[DieHardSkins88]

You guys need to shutup with this stuff, seriously it's getting old. Why don't u just take the signings for what they were. Clearly snyder and cerratto have a plan, you guys just can't realize it. They think they have the franchise qb, so what did they do in last years draft? Get three pass catchers with huge potential. So what do they do this year? Rebuild the oline that cost us at least 3 games and get a game changing defensive tackle. If you ask me, these past 3 years have all been a part of their plan, and instead of ***** about the ownership, let it ride out and see how we do. If we go 11-5 and win the division who's gona b saying that dan snyder and cerratto are clueless?

[jthor99]

I'm tired of hearing of this Caps vs Redskins building a team comparison.

Totally an Apple and Oranges comparison.

[Fifty Gut]

one of the biggest reasons why I've embraced the Caps. the way they've built that team, they're the anti-Redskin. they basically do it the Steeler way, in hockey. beautiful. I definitely see the Caps bringing home a championship to Washington before the Skins do

[rellix]

Comparing building an NHL team and building an NFL team is about as dumb a comparison as you can do.

The only thing dumb about the comparison is your attempt to discredit it with flawed concepts.


Caps got Ovechkin, without him they wouldn't be nearly as good. Ovechkin ws to the Caps what Lebron James was to Cleveland. An absolute sure thing and a franchise changer.

Ovechkin is an amazing player, but the Caps were still terrible his first 2.25 seasons, even while he was named rookie of the year. Hockey is even more team-oriented than football. A star running back can go beyond a terrible O-line, and a Manning-esque QB can make the playoffs with the slowest WRs in the league.

A franchise changer? Absolutely, but your team can't hinge on one man playing 20-25 minutes per night.


The Caps haven't won anything. As a matter of fact, last season they were doormats of the NHL, their were calls to FIRE George McPhee, and they were UNWATCHABLE. The team was in a shambles and attendance was down. They had to FIRE their head coach and get a LIGHTS OUT Goaltender to squeak into first place by the hair of their chin.

Sorry, your statements here are comical at best. The Caps were transitioning from joke to powerhouse since 2004, and it was just a matter of time before success started to kick in. First they had to address ****ty players, which they did, but then you have a coach who had his team change beneath him without knowing how to use these players to their advantages. A young team is going to be a fast team, and he played them like geezers - if Hanlon was still in today, we wouldn't even be mentioning this article.

And Huet.. a "LIGHTS OUT Goaltender" -- give me a break. He's no Brodeur, Lundqvist, Luongo.. he doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath. Did he hit a hot streak (as the rest of the caps did)? Of course, but it was nothing more than that.


They still have no stanley cup goaltender on their roster.

What is a Stanley Cup Goaltender? one that can win one, or what that has? Look at Chris Osgood, who, ahem, won the Cup last year. He's become a joke. Certainly an amazing goaltender will make it easier to win, but it's not required.

That being said, look for Varlamov or Neuvirth next season up in Washington - they are the most amazing prospects in net that the Caps have had since Kolzig was drafted. After next season it will be these two (barring a trade) as an amazing duo.


Please lets stop the comparison. It's a dumb one. Even if they did win the Stanley Cup (which they haven't even come close) you can't compare a sport where you get to build a multi-tiered farm system, and get to pull "professional" players from other countrys "professional" leagues to come right and and play in the NHL. NFL has essentially one place to pull talent. Thats the draft.

I'll just clue you in: the vast majority of your draft picks are coming from Junior leagues, not professional leagues. Due to the drastically diminishing popularity of college hockey, most players hit juniors, and there is virtually no difference between this and college football.

Oh wait, that's right, you're actually scouting and drafting them at a younger age.

College football players are more developed and ready for the NFL than junior players are for the NHL. Why do you think most players stay on their junors team, or head straight for the minors after being drafted?


The caps have now been good for one...count it *ONE* full season. Half of last year and half of this season. Let's see a little more than one season before we make Ted Leonsis out to be king. He has been owner longer than Snyder and has dissapointed just as much (for those of you who actually paid attention before NOW).

I hate to break the news, but the Caps have been 'good' for some time now. (And let's clarify 'good' - they are beyond good. This team is AMAZING - they are breaking franchise records every few games.)

Its just been a matter of that final transition at the coach position. Before that, they'd be 'one step' behind. Everyone knew they were going to be a powerhouse. It was just a matter of that final piece fitting.

Could you be any more uninformed? Leonsis took over in 1999. Snyder took over in 1997. That's a two year advantage in a league that teams transition from worst to first quicker than any other, and the NHL didn't even play in 2004, which would have been Ovechkin's first real season. Maybe YOU should start paying attention before making these ridiculous claims that even have HALF an idea of how the Caps success has played out.


Oh, and just for fun, since your argument hinges on the concept that the Caps haven't been good for more than a full season:
Boudreau took over after 21 games into the season last year. 61/82 = .74 | They've played 63 games this season. 63/82 = .76

.74 + .76 = 1.5 seasons, certainly more consistency than the Redskins have ever had under Snyder.

[ttr77]

All I can say about the Skins/Caps comparison is that I canceled my Skins season tickets and upgraded to a full season for the Caps. And it's one of the better decisions I've made.

That's all I got to say about that...

[PokerPacker]

What Ted laid out can be applied to any professional team sport. Football, Baseball, Basketball or Hockey.

It reads like how to manage a sports franchise 101. So to blow it out of the water because Hockey gets players from outside of the draft is pretty weak.

well actually, players from other countries are still a part of the draft. its not like you just go to russia and say "I want you, you, and... you". Their drafted along with everyone else in the league. only difference is that players you draft don't usually make it into the NHL that year, they play in other leagues to develop. in the case of foreign players, they often continue to play in a league in their country before they get called up to play in America (and even then they usually go into the AHL before being then called up to the NHL).

[PokerPacker]

The Caps had the worst record and was able to draft Alex the Great the following year was a lockout correct? And instead of letting the Caps draft #1 again the league tweaked it so Spittsburgh landed the much hyped Sidney Crosby which I wonder if the Caps would have taken him if they were in position to get him.

So we just need to have back to back top 3 selections in the April Draft where one in a decade can't miss players are there for us to grab and Vinny and Danny become geniuses with a fanbase understanding of the sorry seasons?

Should we start with a 1-15 season this year and dump everyone in the uncapped year if it exists?

While I don't doubt the league rigged it to give a staggering Pittsburgh team that was on the verge of moving the first pick, the way the NHL is set up, you can't get the first round draft pick two years in a row. The last 5 teams in the NHL enter a lottery to see what place they'll get their pick, the lower you are in the standings, the more likely you'll get an earlier pick. so the caps weren't gonna get the first-round pick, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see that Pittsburgh winning the lotto wasn't exactly legitimate.

[HailGreen28]

Have to disagree with you here. The front office has been pretty quiet the past few off-seasons, and only this off-season got 3 key players that could help the franchise. A phenomenal Defensive Lineman, an pretty good Offensive Lineman, and retained a very good young Cornerback. Heading into the draft there are two positions that could use some additional bolstering are Offensive Line and Linebacker. I can see the Front Office targetting a couple Offensive Linemen with the first pick (Oher, Monroe, Smith, Robinson, etc.). I could also see them trading down, still picking up an Offensive Lineman with the first pick, getting a good Linebacker with the second pick, and another Offensive Lineman with the third pick. I call that having an excellent plan this off-season and sticking with it.

Yes, people could say we need a new Quarterback, but they are trying to give JC one more year to develop under Zorn's coaching.Hoo boy. Agree with you on Campbell, but for the rest.....:doh:

Here's how active we've been in free agency the past few seasons. Link (http://www.redskins.com/mobile/Free_Agency__Redskins_Usually_Aggressive_5464.jsp)

And now you're expecting Vinny to draft well. Did last year, and 1999-2000, 2002-2003 teach you nothing?

We can dream. :wish:

[DieHardSkins88]

HailGreen28- We have drafted solid players so why call them out on drafting busts all the time? Carlos Rogers, Chris Samuels, Landry, Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley, Monty, Golston, Chris Horton, Fred Smoot, Derrick Dockery, Rocky, so you can't just say 'vinny doesn't know how to draft,' that's bs. Also, the jury's still out on last years draft class. You can't simply call last year a bust, especially when judging wide receivers.

[DButz65]

You all correcting the "Jason Candle" spelling thing..

Its a joke and was a geico commercial here in the dc area
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd8SKfMj378
:D

[HailGreen28]

HailGreen28- We have drafted solid players so why call them out on drafting busts all the time? Carlos Rogers, Chris Samuels, Landry, Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley, Monty, Golston, Chris Horton, Fred Smoot, Derrick Dockery, Rocky, so you can't just say 'vinny doesn't know how to draft,' that's bs. Also, the jury's still out on last years draft class. You can't simply call last year a bust, especially when judging wide receivers.Pssst. :secret: Vinny DIDN'T draft most of those guys. Gibbs did.

[DieHardSkins88]

Vinny was part of the scouting department during gibbs tenure, last year wasn't his first draft with us, if im not mistaken

[SWFLSkins]

1. Ask yourself the big question: "Can this team--as constructed--ever win a championship?" If the answer is yes -- stay the course and try to find the right formula -- if the answer is no, then plan to rebuild.

If this worked in the NFL 20 teams each year would be blowing it all up. The Hockey roster might work this way and from time to time an NFL team needs to blow it all up, but to allude that the Redskins right now should blow it up and not just tweak is really short sighted. If blown up the Redskins would be further away from being competitive in the short term. This team is not far off. I think also Snyder is still judged from past mistakes, but this is Snyder post Gibbs II. I think the front office set-up now is much better. And it time to see if Vinny is actually a good football mind or not. But please show some patience, the Pittsburghs and NE's of the NFL did not just materialize the last few years. My take, Snyder is coming along.

[Smoot Point Really]

When is the last time you saw someone trade a 'prospect' in football? NFL to other leagues is like apples and oranges. There are no "minor leagues" and they usually trade expensive veterans, not prospects...

You also need 22 starters and at least 3 special teamers to field a solid NFL team (barring injury), that's about the size of a complete NHL roster. You could probably take a few years and go through the type of rebuilding you are talking about, but in the NFL you have to use the draft, free agency, and trade... You also need a LOT of luck.

[Smoot Point Really]

Vinny was part of the scouting department during gibbs tenure, last year wasn't his first draft with us, if im not mistaken

It was the first with him "calling the shots"... It's clear that the Redskins are embracing the notion that Vinny should be held accountable from last year on. Why not accept that?

[DieHardSkins88]

What you mean, i have accepted that. I was saying that he played a huge part in aquiring the talent we already have through the draft. Why can't you people accept that Vinny isn't all that bad. If that was the case then how could people be saying he can't draft after his first draft? Makes no sense

[HailGreen28]

Vinny was part of the scouting department during gibbs tenure, last year wasn't his first draft with us, if im not mistakenCorrect. Vinny was GM in all but name in 1999, 2000, 2002, and 2003. And of course with the official title in 2008.

The missing years: Schotty fired him in 2001 (Danny brought him back), and Gibbs called the shots in 2004-2007.

Go read about 1999, 2000, 2002, and 2003. I recommend keeping any breakable or sharp objects from yourself if you're a Skins fan.

Example link (http://curlyr.blogspot.com/2007/01/free-agents-2000.html).

[DieHardSkins88]

Hoo boy. Agree with you on Campbell, but for the rest.....:doh:

Here's how active we've been in free agency the past few seasons. Link (http://www.redskins.com/mobile/Free_Agency__Redskins_Usually_Aggressive_5464.jsp)

And now you're expecting Vinny to draft well. Did last year, and 1999-2000, 2002-2003 teach you nothing?

We can dream. :wish:

So if vinny played no part in drafting the talent we already have, why did he go back to the 1999-2000, 2002-2003 draft to say that his drafts sucked? The logic is lacking

[DieHardSkins88]

Sorry hailgreen im not trying to call you out, rather show the other guy who tried to insult me how he misinterpreted our argument.

[HailGreen28]

Sorry hailgreen im not trying to call you out, rather show the other guy who tried to insult me how he misinterpreted our argument.You're cool. :cheers:

[HailGreen28]

So if vinny played no part in drafting the talent we already have, why did he go back to the 1999-2000, 2002-2003 draft to say that his drafts sucked? The logic is lackingBecause that's when Vinny and Danny were in charge.

Schotty and Gibbs insisted on making the final decisions themselves, when they were there.

[Reaganaut]

This shows you the difference between a world class corporation America Online vs. Snyder Communications. Someone who changed the Internet forever, vs a guy who sold magazine subscriptions. Too bad Leonsis wasn't into football... how many division trophies would we have already?

[chipwhich]

.74 + .76 = 1.5 seasons, certainly more consistency than the Redskins have ever had under Snyder.

Too tired to banter over your whole thread which is just silly.

OK, so mathematically 1.5 seasons.

Regardless.

Ted Leonsis has been owner for longer that Snyder has been owner.

His franchise has been as much if not more of a disappointment in his respective sport.

The one time they lucked into the stanley cup, they did so by beating all lower seeded teams only to be totally outclassed.

My point is, Leonsis has now shelled out "1.5" seasons of competitive hockey and you want to annoint him as the best owner in town?

I have been watching hockey since I was a little boy. I have seen better Capitals teams than we have now. I have never seen a championship.

You mention how we were bad with Ovechkin initially. Yeah because we had a horrible coach. Just like it was a moronic move to bring in Jaromir Jagr and have Butch Cassidy as his coach. Thats like bringing in Brett Farve and making Colt Brennan his QB coach.

Leonsis appears to be on the right track. He still has won nothing. His team has done less over the last 5 years than the Skins have. His team was SUCH a doormat that we got the first pick in the draft in a year that the the basketball equivalent of Lebron James was available. Let the WIzards or Redskins be so lucky.

I am glad you are excited over the Caps, I am too. But it was a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG road to this point and Leonsis has been on that road longer than Snyder.

[elkabong82]

Because that's when Vinny and Danny were in charge.

Schotty and Gibbs insisted on making the final decisions themselves, when they were there.

Spurrier had full control also. If Vinny has really been essentially a GM all this time, why didn't he get a promotion to that affect sooner? Vinny's first offseason with full control was last offseason, and the approach then was a dramatic departure from what the team had done in the past. Yet the past draft mistakes are all credited to Vinny, and any success are credited to coaches? That's about as baised and unrealistic as you can get. Either the coaches were given full control, and therefor are the ones accountable for past moves, or Vinny has been behind them all, and gets credit for good and bad moves. Since we don't know the inner operations, all we can go off is job titles, which give you inherent responsibilities for the position. Vinny was an evalutor and provided insight, he wasn't a decision maker until his promotion this past offseason. But I know, I know, some would rather be able to criticize than watch a plan follow through. It's been 1 season, to not allow anymore time than that is unrealistic.

[HailGreen28]

Spurrier had full control also. If Vinny has really been essentially a GM all this time, why didn't he get a promotion to that affect sooner? Vinny's first offseason with full control was last offseason, and the approach then was a dramatic departure from what the team had done in the past. Yet the past draft mistakes are all credited to Vinny, and any success are credited to coaches? That's about as baised and unrealistic as you can get. Either the coaches were given full control, and therefor are the ones accountable for past moves, or Vinny has been behind them all, and gets credit for good and bad moves. Since we don't know the inner operations, all we can go off is job titles, which give you inherent responsibilities for the position. Vinny was an evalutor and provided insight, he wasn't a decision maker until his promotion this past offseason. But I know, I know, some would rather be able to criticize than watch a plan follow through. It's been 1 season, to not allow anymore time than that is unrealistic.The reason Vinny wasn't given the actual title earlier is because he's a failure at it. And maybe Danny "deserves" the title more than Vinny.

Vinny failed in 1999 and 2000. That's why Danny gave Marty full control, Then after the free agent and drafting debacles of the Spurrier era, Danny gave Gibbs full control.

The only thing Vinny has been "proven" at is scout with the 49ers. Once he got promoted there, things went to hell drafting and personel decisions for the future.

Now apparently Danny thinks Vinny has improved, or maybe he just wants his old fantasy football guru making picks for his NFL team again.

I'm giving credit where credit is due. Other than when Schotty and Gibbs were here, it's been Vinny and Danny pulling the trigger on all the deals here. Think about it, and compare draft and FA classes. :doh:

edit: Spurrier DID NOT have full control. he basically told Vinny - "just find me some players to run the fun-n-gun". Vinny did the picking.

[elkabong82]

The reason Vinny wasn't given the actual title earlier is because he's a failure at it. And maybe Danny "deserves" the title more than Vinny.

Vinny failed in 1999 and 2000. That's why Danny gave Marty full control, Then after the free agent and drafting debacles of the Spurrier era, Danny gave Gibbs full control.

The only thing Vinny has been "proven" at is scout with the 49ers. Once he got promoted there, things went to hell drafting and personel decisions for the future.

Now apparently Danny thinks Vinny has improved, or maybe he just wants his old fantasy football guru making picks for his NFL team again.

I'm giving credit where credit is due. Other than when Schotty and Gibbs were here, it's been Vinny and Danny pulling the trigger on all the deals here. Think about it, and compare draft and FA classes. :doh:

edit: Spurrier DID NOT have full control. he basically told Vinny - "just find me some players to run the fun-n-gun". Vinny did the picking.

Nice revisionist history there.

"The reason Vinny wasn't given the actual title earlier is because he's a failure at it?" Umm, what? Vinny hadn't held the title before, so how could he be a failure at it? Why would somebody hire someone to a position if they are a know failure at it? The whole "Snyder and Cerrato Out to Rule the World" conspiracy stuff is getting old. They are not Monty Burns and Smithers. That's a cartoon, this is the real world. We know Snyder interferes and carries a lot of influence, but we don;t know how directly involved he gets, so why keep pretending otherwise? We don't know the inner operations of the FO, all we have is titles and the responsibilities which come with them to go on. So, using facts instead of gossip, Cerrato wasn't making decisions until last year.

I double checked on the Spurrier thing, and you are correct that Spurrier was in charge as a coach only. However, it appears in those times Dan was in charge. Gibbs came in and had full control. Snyder said Gibbs had a large effect on him, and for the most part stayed out of the way unless it was time to go get a player Gibbs wanted. Whose to say Snyder didn't learn to become less involved? Vinny was promoted after Gibbs left, taking on the responisbilities of a GM. That's just speculation though, because as I said, we don;t know the inner operations, the only concrete thing we have are job titles. Vinny has direct accountability now, so let's see what happens. Allow things to develop and then we can examine. To write everything off after just 1 season is, again, unrealistic.

[chipwhich]

Nice revisionist history there.

I double checked on the Spurrier thing, and you are correct that Spurrier was in charge as a coach only. However, it appears in those times Dan was in charge.

I agree with your post. You can't convince me Vinny an NFL GM would pick all those gator QB's and receivers and trung as a running back. There was more to that story than Vinnie making all of those decisions. You can dislike Vinnie all you want, but to say he was a gator lover is a little naive.

[BayouBrave86]

the caps would be where they are right now even without Ovi. Its the players around him, the intensity that the coach has brought with him and the scheme as well.

Wrong. Without Ovechkin the Caps are probably a 6 or 7 seed right now. I'm sorry but if you took the best player in the game off the team it is going to have an impact. The Patriots are a good example. They lost arguably the best player in the game and they went from elite to above-average. No way in hell the Caps are sitting 2nd in the east right now without Ovechkin. The defense still is very average and they need to do something to improve it by the trade deadline this week. What impresses me the most about the Caps is all of the youth and assets they have to trade. It is truly awesome to cheer for them. And yes, the party has just begun for the Caps.:dj:

[HailGreen28]

Nice revisionist history there.

"The reason Vinny wasn't given the actual title earlier is because he's a failure at it?" Umm, what? Vinny hadn't held the title before, so how could he be a failure at it? Why would somebody hire someone to a position if they are a know failure at it? The whole "Snyder and Cerrato Out to Rule the World" conspiracy stuff is getting old. They are not Monty Burns and Smithers. That's a cartoon, this is the real world. We know Snyder interferes and carries a lot of influence, but we don;t know how directly involved he gets, so why keep pretending otherwise? We don't know the inner operations of the FO, all we have is titles and the responsibilities which come with them to go on. So, using facts instead of gossip, Cerrato wasn't making decisions until last year.

I double checked on the Spurrier thing, and you are correct that Spurrier was in charge as a coach only. However, it appears in those times Dan was in charge. Gibbs came in and had full control. Snyder said Gibbs had a large effect on him, and for the most part stayed out of the way unless it was time to go get a player Gibbs wanted. Whose to say Snyder didn't learn to become less involved? Vinny was promoted after Gibbs left, taking on the responisbilities of a GM. That's just speculation though, because as I said, we don;t know the inner operations, the only concrete thing we have are job titles. Vinny has direct accountability now, so let's see what happens. Allow things to develop and then we can examine. To write everything off after just 1 season is, again, unrealistic.I'm confused. What are you saying that I "revised" history-wise? :whoknows:

Who else was picking players for the Skins in 1999-2000? Nobody had the title of GM then, it was just Vinny and Danny up in the booth, though.

I don't know WHY Danny kept Vinny after the failures of 1999 and 2000. Only that Danny hired Vinny right back after canning Marty.

Snyder cut Danny Woefull (sp?) link - middle of page, (http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/36120/spurrier_quits_as_redskins_coach/index.html) Vinny cut a player possibly without Spurrier even knowing it! link (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01E6D71731F930A15753C1A9659C8B 63)

My point is that Vinny's had the job WITHOUT the responsibility. Maybe because Danny deserves more blame. But all Danny had for "expert" advice, was old bug-eyes.

1999-2000, 2002-2003, and now 2008.. We have PLENTY of years to evaluate Vinny. Can you look at this year and tell me with a straight face that Vinny's learned a thing since 1999?

[HailGreen28]

I agree with your post. You can't convince me Vinny an NFL GM would pick all those gator QB's and receivers and trung as a running back. There was more to that story than Vinnie making all of those decisions. You can dislike Vinnie all you want, but to say he was a gator lover is a little naive.Read and weep. link (http://www.thestandard.com.hk/archive_news_detail.asp?pp_cat=&art_id=35928&sid=&con_type=1&archive_d_str=20030312)

We got the ex-gators for one reason. In the immortal words of Spurrier "They were cheap and available". Check out my previous post. Danny fired one, Vinny fired another guy without Spurrier knowing. Spurrier wasn't in control.

[theMEAST21]

haha, why the hell is hailgreen's article from the baltimore sun VIA China's Business Newspaper? I could probably only think of maybe 3 or 4 things less relevant to china's business news than the steve spurrier/redskins "spending spree"

[HailGreen28]

haha, why the hell is hailgreen's article from the baltimore sun VIA China's Business Newspaper? I could probably only think of maybe 3 or 4 things less relevant to china's business news than the steve spurrier/redskins "spending spree"Because a lot of the original quotes to news that old is often missing from the primary source, or requires a subscription to the archives.

I just picked the first example I could find of the info I was looking for.

[gfunk76p]

One thing has changed. Next year's draft is still intact minus a 6th. (well atleast for the time being there have been no draft pick trades brewing, although it will be quite a few months before the 2010 draft) If it weren't for Daniels going down they would still have 12356 this year.

After adding Haynes and Dock to the Lines they have been greatly bolstered. Adding another Vet on the O-line or keeping Kendall plus drafting an OL in the 1st would greatly improve the O-line. If Montgomery and Golston stay that would go a long way toward having a great D-Line in 09. The only real holes then would be DE depth and RB depth.

09 is truely going to come down to Campbell. I like what have seen thus far. The long ball is going to be the end all tell all. Not sure last season if it was the play calling or Campbell's lack of confidence that was the reason for having no big passing plays.

Having fewer question marks headed into 09 should make for a far better campaign though. :helmet:

[lightskins]

I think this is a GREAT POST as well. The Caps looked poised to be able to do what they do for the duration of Leonsis time there. It reminds me of how Pittsburgh is always in the running for the Super Bowl. A plan has been set up and they follow it year in and year out. I wont go as far as to say We(Redskins) do not have a plan, however, I would like the type of plan Ted has laid out better than what we currently have. Redskins fans are always wondering what we are going to do in Free Agency, in the draft, with trades. We are consistently overly upset or elated over moves only for them to lead to mediocrity. Like now, we have a West Coast coach with a run first line and running back and a play action passing quarterback. Are we gonna go all the way West Coast or not? Our defense, is good but what kind is it? Sometimes it seems like we are a pressure D, sometimes a bend dont break. I think we are a zone type D against the pas but our corners (Smoot, Rogers, Springs) all like man-2-man. Anybody still having flashbacks of Smoot playing 10 yards off and back peddling as fast as he can on 3rd and 8's this year? I love the Skins but I dont know what our identity is. At least Ted has an identity for the Caps and everyone in their organization knows it and apparently the media as well.

Does anyone think we can win the Super Bowl without an identity? or better yet, what is our team identity?

[jschlesi]

It all boils down to the same issue. We dont have a GM. Last real GM decision maker was Schottenheimer and Danny fired him after one season because Marty would not let Danny into the conference room when he made personnel decisions.

[HitStickTaylor21]

Longest post I've ever seen.

Bottom line, the Caps drafted well in the recent past. Ovechkin is the best player to come along since Gretzky and we have good complements to his game: assist guys, scorers who can step up and take pressure off him, enforcers to keep him healthy, and attacking defensemen who keep the defense from overloading on him. You can't compare building a hockey team to a football team outside of saying, "focus on the draft." What's needed to make championship teams in both sports are completely different.

[occidio]

Just so you guys know.. Ted Leonsis didnt build the caps. George Mcfee and Dick Patrick did. Leonsis is a terd.

[Kelvin Bryant]

Kudos on a persuasive and well-argued post.

My one substantive criticism is that after I read the stuff in red, all the white text looked blue for a while.

[HEavyJumbo85]

You can't go about building a football team the same way because of the lack of a minor league system, which is a key to the Capitals model. It doesn't matter though either way, the main thing to take away from all of this is that you MUST have a plan. You've gotta have a plan, you've gotta stick to the plan and it has to be successful.

It's all about formulating a successful plan and implementing a system and then getting players that fit into that system. Going out and just collecting random players from random other systems(no matter how proven they were in another system) and building your core around those random players is just dumb and it breeds mediocrity. The Redskins as they're constructed now are about as backwards as you can get when you look at the models of other successful pro sports teams and unless they formulate a plan and implement a legitimate system they'll continue to finish every year between 5-11 and 9-7. Never good enough to be elite, and never bad enough to get a bonefide franchise player, like an Ovechkin for example. It's not the best way to do things in my opinion. It's near impossible to win a championship that way.

[DButz65]

Leonsis is a terd.


And thats just absurd :chair:

[occidio]

And thats just absurd :chair:

Leonsis spoke at my high school graduation. I'll sum up the speech for you.. he talks to mentally retarded people through email, one of his life goals was to play Jordan 1vs1 in bball(which he did), he promoted AOL.

This thread is wrong. Leonsis did not build the Capitals. George McPhee and Dick Patrick (Lincoln Holdings LLC) built the Caps. Leonsis was busy with his failing company.

[SkinsOrlando]

We aint gonna do **** this year without a goalie I'll tell you that much, letting Huet get away was a big mistake.

Oh and onto the focus of this, apples and oranges, apples and oranges.

[Chanhillbilly]

Are the caps a good team right now? - Yes (40-19-5) first in division and second in conference.
Are they exciting to watch? - Yes
Do I feel like I get my dollar value back when I go to games - Yes
Do I dread the day after games - No
How did they get to where they are? - Traded high priced vets with tread still on the tires for low draft picks and hit on those picks.
What else? - Got a coach who put in a scheme that benefited the players on the roster.
What else? - They have a GM and very good talent scouts.
How long are they going to have to make a run? - Since most players are under 24 years old, they have several years to be competitive and make a run before their salaries balloon or the players become too old. Talent on the lines runs very deep. Call up from Hersey have filled in and played well this year.

Are the skins a good team right now? - ehhh 8-8 crumbled second half of season
Are they exciting to watch? - Yes and no
Do I feel like I get my dollar value back when I go to games - No
Do I dread the day after games - Yes
How did they get to where they are? - Traded draft pics for expensive vets.
What else? - Got a coach who put in a scheme that did not fit some of the players on the roster.
What else? - They do not have a GM and or very good talented college scouts. (college is minor league football and can compare to minor league hockey)
How long are they going to have to make a run? - Since most players are over 30 years old, they only a year or two to be competitive and make a run before their salaries balloon and they become too old and injury prone. Huge drop off in talent at most positions when looking at backups.

So to sum it up. Ted/McFee went the Fantasy Hockey route and they decided it was wrong and unproductive. They blew up the team before the strike year and drafted well with the picks the received in trade.

Snyder/Cerrato are back on the Fantasy Football kick again and now have a ballooning salary cap and only a short amount of time to make a run before the salaries and age catch up with the team again.

The Caps have a better shot at the cup this year and next than the Redskins will have a shot at the superbowl in 09.

[Merlin Emrys]

Comparing building an NHL team and building an NFL team is about as dumb a comparison as you can do.

Dismissing the basic connection is even dumber.

[ntotoro]

The Caps have a better shot at the cup this year and next than the Redskins will have a shot at the superbowl in 09.

And likely '10, and '11, and '12, and '13...

[PokerPacker]

We aint gonna do **** this year without a goalie I'll tell you that much, letting Huet get away was a big mistake.

I strongly disagree with that. We offered Huet exactly what he asked for, but then he wanted more and went to Chicago. He wanted a 3-year deal, which is too long for someone in a temporary position. Jose Theodore started the season pretty poorly for us, but he's since turned it around and become the goalie we paid for. He's only got two years on his contract and is costing us less money than Huet would have. This gives our high-potential goaltending prospects Simeon Varlamov and Michael Neuvirth the opportunity to come into the league and find their place in the team.

[ntotoro]

We aint gonna do **** this year without a goalie I'll tell you that much, letting Huet get away was a big mistake.

Huet completely played the FO to get more money from Chicago. Can't blame anyone for letting him walk, especially since the Caps met his original demands.

What the team needs is to have the ability to recall Alzner and get a couple dedicated Defensive players. Not scoring Defensive players, but uglies. Theodore has been playing much better than his numbers have looked lately. Plus, we seem to have two young goalies with a ton of promise.

I just can't see how anyone can say, with a straight face, that the Redskins' FO somehow has more promise than that of the Caps.

[chipwhich]

I guess Teddy should have focussed on what matters in playoff hockey.

Dominant defensive play and lights out goaltending.

I am a huge Caps fan, but have had more Capitals disappointments in my lifetime than Redskins disappointments.

Maybe Teddy and GMGM focus this offseason on finding a nasty defender, a second goaltender after we dump Theo, and an established winner like Federov.

The Capitals can light up the lamp at times but are pillow soft. We need some players with grit and a mean streak.

Less talking Teddy...until we win something.

[skinsngibbs4life]

How to build a franchise?

Start it as far away from Washington as possible.:doh:

[redskins59]

It's a pretty young team, so this type of stuff is expected. With experience, the Caps will get better. Yes, it's true that need better defense, but I gotta say Varlamov was very impressive today. Sure, the Caps lost, but I felt that the game was very entertaining.

[scruffylookin]

It's a pretty young team, so this type of stuff is expected. With experience, the Caps will get better. Yes, it's true that need better defense, but I gotta say Varlamov was very impressive today. Sure, the Caps lost, but I felt that the game was very entertaining.

Agreed.

The point of this thread is still as strong as ever.

The Caps are going to compete for a Cup year in and year out for the forseeable future because of the great work the FO has done in drafting talent. Still a stark contrast to the way Snyder runs things with the Redskins.

Also with regards to this particular series, the Caps are dominating the Rangers. Seriously, watch the games and they are kicking their collective asses.

Two men have put the Caps in the hole they are in.

Game 1 was Theodore.
Game 2 was Lundqvist who just shut the door.

[redskins0756]

I've never been a huge hockey fan but my cousin is a huge one and he writes a blog for them called Capitals Kremlin (http://capitalskremlin.com/) (lame plug I know:silly:)

But as a fellow Redskins fan he was telling me about Ted Leonsis and how much he's done for the Capitals. Committed to a rebuilding effort, invested in young talent, build through the draft, etc. And after following them pretty extensively this past year and going to some games it's clear the fan base has bought into his plan. So I came across an article from Hogs Haven where they interviewed Leonsis and he provided a pretty comprehensive 10-point rebuilding plan. He provided it from the perspective of a hockey owner, but much of what he says can be applied to the NFL. Here it is and the link to the original article as well:

http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/2/26/772915/ted-leonsis-shares-his-ten




What I have learned about a rebuild to date: A 10 point plan. A Washington Capitals perspective:
1. Ask yourself the big question: "Can this team--as constructed--ever win a championship?" If the answer is yes -- stay the course and try to find the right formula -- if the answer is no, then plan to rebuild. Don't fake it--really do the analytics and be brutally honest. Once you have your answer, develop the game plan to try to REALLY win a championship. Always run away from experts that say, "We are just one player away." Recognize there is no easy and fast systemic fix. It will be a bumpy ride--have confidence in the plan--"trust and verify: the progress -- but don't deviate from the plan."


2. Once you make the decision to rebuild--be transparent. Articulate the plan and sell it loudly and proudly to all constituencies, the media, the organization, the fans, your partners, family and anyone who will listen. Agree to what makes for a successful rebuild--in our case it is "a great young team with upside that can make the playoffs for a decade and win a Stanley Cup or two."


3. Once you decide to rebuild--bring the house down to the foundation--be consistent with your plan--and with your asks--we always sought to get "a pick and a prospect" in all of our trades. We believed that volume would yield better results than precision. We decided to trade multiple stars at their prime or peak to get a large volume of young players. Young players will get better as they age, so you have built in upside. Youngsters push vets to play better to keep their jobs, and they stay healthier, and they are more fun--less jaded by pro sports.


4. Commit to building around the draft. Invest in scouting, development, and a system. Articulate that system and stay with it so that all players feel comfortable-- know the language-- know what is expected of them-- read the Oriole Way*. It worked and it is a great tutorial. Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don't deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system.


5. Be patient with young players-- throw them in the pool to see if they can swim. Believe in them. Show them loyalty. Re-sign the best young players to long term high priced deals. Show the players you are very loyal to them as compared to free agents who achieved highly for another team. Teach them. Celebrate their successes. Use failures as a way to teach and improve. Coaches must be tough but kind to build confidence.


6. Make sure the GM, coach, owner and business folks are on the EXACT same page as to deliverables, metrics of success, ultimate goal, process and measured outcomes. Always meet to discuss analytics and don't be afraid of the truth that the numbers reveal. Manage to outcomes. Manage to let the GM and coach NOT be afraid of taking risks, and make sure there are no surprises. Over communicate. Act like an ethnic family--battle around the dinner table--never in public. Be tight as a team. Protect and enhance each other. Let the right people do their jobs.


7. No jerks allowed. Implement a no jerk policy. Draft and develop and keep high character people. Team chemistry is vital to success. Make sure the best and highest paid players are coachable, show respect to the system, want to be in the city, love to welcome new, young players to the team, have respect for the fan base, show joy in their occupation, get the system, believe in the coaches, have fun in practice, and want to be gym rats. Dump quickly distractions. Life is too short to drink bad wine.


8. Add veterans to the team via shorter term deals as free agents. Signing long-term, expensive deals for vets is very risky. We try to add vets to the mix for two year or three year deals. They fill in around our young core. They are very important for leadership, but they must complement the young core (NOT try to overtake them or be paid more than them). Identify and protect the core. Add veterans to complement them, not visa versa.


9. Measure and improve. Have shared metrics--know what the progress is--and where it ranks on the timeline-- be honest in all appraisals; don't be afraid to trade young assets for other draft picks to build back end backlog-- know the aging of contracts-- protect "optionality" to make trades at deadlines or in off season; never get in cap jail. Having dry powder is very important to make needed moves.


10. Never settle--never rest--keep on improving. Around the edges to the plan, have monthly, quarterly and annual check ups. Refresh the plan when needed but for the right reasons-- "how are we doing against our metrics of success and where are we on our path to a championship." Never listen to bloggers, media, so called experts--to thine own self be true. Enjoy the ride.

[Sticksboi05]

It took Ted a while to figure it out also but at least at one point, he got it and now the Caps are in great shape.

[spjunkies]

Hockey is completely different than football. Before the great 8 arrived some fans wanted to run the guy outta town.

[Skinswego]

Ted Leonsis as the Managing Partner with Fred Smith putting up the money and being silent

[redskins0756]

Hockey is completely different than football. Before the great 8 arrived some fans wanted to run the guy outta town.

But you can take his over-arching themes and apply them to football. Sign veterans to short term contracts for example means not giving Brunell a 7-year deal when he's about to turn 34.

Or either fully committing to a rebuilding effort or trying to win that championship. Don't get stuck in the middle your foundation has to be strong. And with this team our foundation is overpaid veteran players, that is a recipe for disaster and not something you can build a team around.

[redskins0756]

It took Ted a while to figure it out also but at least at one point, he got it and now the Caps are in great shape.

But when he did he now has a winning formula for his franchise. Snyder still hasn't figured it out and I don't think ever will. He's caught in this perpetual state of mind that he can just buy his victories and bring in coach after coach. Leonsis recognizes that a foundation has to be laid for success and look at the Caps. They've got that with Ovie, Semin, Backstrom, Varlamov, and then he mixes some good veteran players like Knuble.

[spjunkies]

But you can take his over-arching themes and apply them to football. Sign veterans to short term contracts for example means not giving Brunell a 7-year deal when he's about to turn 34.

Or either fully committing to a rebuilding effort or trying to win that championship. Don't get stuck in the middle your foundation has to be strong. And with this team our foundation is overpaid veteran players, that is a recipe for disaster and not something you can build a team around.

The reason you give an old Scott Brunell that kind of contract is because you can cut him in about 3-4 years into that deal without taking a huge cap hit. I get the gist of what he's saying, but it really can't be compared.

[CooleyNaMean]

Ted Leonsis, Vinny Cerrato.. what's the difference? Neither know anything about football.

[spjunkies]

But when he did he now has a winning formula for his franchise. Snyder still hasn't figured it out and I don't think ever will. He's caught in this perpetual state of mind that he can just buy his victories and bring in coach after coach. Leonsis recognizes that a foundation has to be laid for success and look at the Caps. They've got that with Ovie, Semin, Backstrom, Varlamov, and then he mixes some good veteran players like Knuble.

And those guys have a chance to develop in a farm system. You don't have that luxury in football. And it dosen't hurt to have the best player in the world to lay that foundation.

[redskins0756]

Ted Leonsis, Vinny Cerrato.. what's the difference? Neither know anything about football.

Neither does Snyder.


The reason you give an old Scott Brunell that kind of contract is because you can cut him in about 3-4 years into that deal without taking a huge cap hit. I get the gist of what he's saying, but it really can't be compared.

Then you didn't read the whole piece. It went in-depth regarding draft and other things as well.

[DButz65]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=281771&highlight=Capitals

[spjunkies]

Neither does Snyder.



Then you didn't read the whole piece. It went in-depth regarding draft and other things as well.

I don't care how in-depth he goes it simply is comparing apples to oranges.

[TD Riggo]

Hockey and football are two completely different animals. I appreciate the concepts, but it's just not comparable.

But yes .. the culture of this team is the problem. It starts at the very top with Dan Snyder. Joe Gibbs helped to give stability to Snyder. But it's apparent that now that Gibbs is gone, Snyder has learned N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

[SkinsFanJPD]

Comparing building an NHL team and building an NFL team is about as dumb a comparison as you can do.

As I have stated in many threads.

Caps got Ovechkin, without him they wouldn't be nearly as good. Ovechkin ws to the Caps what Lebron James was to Cleveland. An absolute sure thing and a franchise changer.

The Caps haven't won anything. As a matter of fact, last season they were doormats of the NHL, their were calls to FIRE George McPhee, and they were UNWATCHABLE. The team was in a shambles and attendance was down. They had to FIRE their head coach and get a LIGHTS OUT Goaltender to squeak into first place by the hair of their chin.

They still have no stanley cup goaltender on their roster.

Please lets stop the comparison. It's a dumb one. Even if they did win the Stanley Cup (which they haven't even come close) you can't compare a sport where you get to build a multi-tiered farm system, and get to pull "professional" players from other countrys "professional" leagues to come right and and play in the NHL. NFL has essentially one place to pull talent. Thats the draft.

The caps have now been good for one...count it *ONE* full season. Half of last year and half of this season. Let's see a little more than one season before we make Ted Leonsis out to be king. He has been owner longer than Snyder and has dissapointed just as much (for those of you who actually paid attention before NOW).


Don't agree. Not that Leonsis hasn't made mistakes. He has. The Jagr extension was a helluva mistake. But the difference is that he has LEARNED from his mistakes, where as Snyder hasn't. BTW, they had a bit of luck drafting Ovie since they jumped up in the lottery but they wouldn't have even been in the lottery but for the very controversial, and in hindsight very wise, decision to do the fire sale before the cap came in and rebuild from scratch.

[SkinsFanJPD]

I guess Teddy should have focussed on what matters in playoff hockey.

Dominant defensive play and lights out goaltending.

I am a huge Caps fan, but have had more Capitals disappointments in my lifetime than Redskins disappointments.

Maybe Teddy and GMGM focus this offseason on finding a nasty defender, a second goaltender after we dump Theo, and an established winner like Federov.

The Capitals can light up the lamp at times but are pillow soft. We need some players with grit and a mean streak.

Less talking Teddy...until we win something.


All you need to know is that Leonsis and Snyder have been owners of their respective teams about the same length of time. Neither team has been particularly good during that period and both owners had a learning curve for sure. HOWEVER, which team is in better shape now? Which owner can you say actually LEARNED something?

[mnb123]

If the Caps played on sunday afternoons, I feel like people would chose hockey at this point.

The caps are awesome to watch.

[Warhead36]

I don't get how people are saying "omg its so different." It really isn't. The concept for building a successful pro sports team in any sport is basically the same. Of course some things are different(different salary cap structures, trade rules, etc.)but the general concept is the same. I just read Teddy's plan and it just seems so obvious and easy to apply it to the Redskins, but Danny Boy just has too much of an ego to admit he was wrong and only cares about winning HIS way. Too bad his way will never ever ever ever get us anywhere except the occasional playoff birth and one an done.

[SkinsFanJPD]

I don't get how people are saying "omg its so different." It really isn't. The concept for building a successful pro sports team in any sport is basically the same. Of course some things are different(different salary cap structures, trade rules, etc.)but the general concept is the same. I just read Teddy's plan and it just seems so obvious and easy to apply it to the Redskins, but Danny Boy just has too much of an ego to admit he was wrong and only cares about winning HIS way. Too bad his way will never ever ever ever get us anywhere except the occasional playoff birth and one an done.


Of course it isn't all that different. The big picture is exactly the same; only the details differ. Perhaps it is a fair point to say that Leonsis shouldn't be talking unless and until they win a Cup, but his points are right on. And given the respective positions of the two organizations, he does have some right to talk.

[fire5man80]

Comparing building an NHL team and building an NFL team is about as dumb a comparison as you can do.

As I have stated in many threads.

Caps got Ovechkin, without him they wouldn't be nearly as good. Ovechkin ws to the Caps what Lebron James was to Cleveland. An absolute sure thing and a franchise changer.

The Caps haven't won anything. As a matter of fact, last season they were doormats of the NHL, their were calls to FIRE George McPhee, and they were UNWATCHABLE. The team was in a shambles and attendance was down. They had to FIRE their head coach and get a LIGHTS OUT Goaltender to squeak into first place by the hair of their chin.

They still have no stanley cup goaltender on their roster.

Please lets stop the comparison. It's a dumb one. Even if they did win the Stanley Cup (which they haven't even come close) you can't compare a sport where you get to build a multi-tiered farm system, and get to pull "professional" players from other countrys "professional" leagues to come right and and play in the NHL. NFL has essentially one place to pull talent. Thats the draft.

The caps have now been good for one...count it *ONE* full season. Half of last year and half of this season. Let's see a little more than one season before we make Ted Leonsis out to be king. He has been owner longer than Snyder and has dissapointed just as much (for those of you who actually paid attention before NOW).
Must be a penguins fan, huh? The NFL has the draft, CFL, arena football and walk ons to pull from if they want to. Weak argument.
The entire season last year the Caps were the cream of the crop, they only thing they had against them is youth. They season before it started nasty but they recovered and pushed their way into the playoffs. In my opinion, the Caps are the closest thing this town has to a championship caliber team. They Caps youthfullness is going to make them a playoff team for many seasons. Whether its Ted or Bruce the Caps are a GREAT hocky team.
Oct 1 the puck drops and the Caps will once again show just how great they are. HATER!!!!!

[SkinsFanJPD]

Must be a penguins fan, huh? The NFL has the draft, CFL, arena football and walk ons to pull from if they want to. Weak argument.
The entire season last year the Caps were the cream of the crop, they only thing they had against them is youth. They season before it started nasty but they recovered and pushed their way into the playoffs. In my opinion, the Caps are the closest thing this town has to a championship caliber team. They Caps youthfullness is going to make them a playoff team for many seasons. Whether its Ted or Bruce the Caps are a GREAT hocky team.
Oct 1 the puck drops and the Caps will once again show just how great they are. HATER!!!!!


It is interesting. DC wasn't a hockey town and probably still isn't. But Leonsis put a great effort into making the game experience and organization first class. He made some mistakes in the early years but learned from those mistakes. And unlike Snyder, who was always making money hand over fist, Ted was willing to spend big even when he knew he would lose money. THAT is wanting to win. He took that franchise and has built it into a powerhouse both in terms of marketing and on a competitive basis for years to come. It is now cool to be a Caps fan. Right now, it is hard to argue that it isn't the number two professional sport in town. On the other hand, Snyder took what was already a powerhouse living off the good will from the Cooke/Gibbs years and seems to be doing a good job of eroding it. The Redskins will always be number one around here. They are the big gorilla. But the big gorilla isn't as big as it once was, and the little gorillas seem to be getting bigger. At least some of them anyway.

[fire5man80]

It is interesting. DC wasn't a hockey town and probably still isn't. But Leonsis put a great effort into making the game experience and organization first class. He made some mistakes in the early years but learned from those mistakes. And unlike Snyder, who was always making money hand over fist, Ted was willing to spend big even when he knew he would lose money. THAT is wanting to win. He took that franchise and has built it into a powerhouse both in terms of marketing and on a competitive basis for years to come. It is now cool to be a Caps fan. Right now, it is hard to argue that it isn't the number two professional sport in town. On the other hand, Snyder took what was already a powerhouse living off the good will from the Cooke/Gibbs years and seems to be doing a good job of eroding it. The Redskins will always be number one around here. They are the big gorilla. But the big gorilla isn't as big as it once was, and the little gorillas seem to be getting bigger. At least some of them anyway.
I agree 110%.
This might not be a hockey town, but this area is hungry for a winner. We were teased by the Wizards for a couple years there. Who knows they may get it done this year with a healthy squad and Flip. But one thing is for certain is that the Caps are true winners, they have a winning spirit and a winning desire. If they dont win the Cup in the next couple years I will be very very suprised. But I know that there will always be stiff competition and a lot of hard work will be needed. They were rebuilt from the ground up probably what the Skins need to do.

[chipwhich]

Worth the bump for all of you giving credit before the Caps could even bust a grape.

[Mr. Sinister]

No time for cry Caps fans! Maybe next year eh? Maybe drown your sorrows in a bottle o' Jack

[chipwhich]

No crying here, same old caps.

[Mahons21]

So wait building a great team through the draft entirely leads to a lack of veteran leadership? Who would have thunk it.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Just saw the rule 3 thread :(

[Enter Apotheosis]

So wait building a great team through the draft entirely leads to a lack of veteran leadership? Who would have thunk it.

In theory that one will work itself out as the players you draft get older.

[chipwhich]

The "plan" reads like something you buy on an infomercial.

For you guys who haven't followed hockey. Pay attention to where this team was last year to start the season. A disaster. Don't you find it a little ludicrous to call Leonsis a genius now that his "rebuilt" team has played 2 half seasons at a playoff level? That's pretty silly if you ask me. I have watched the Caps for a long time. I worked at the Cap Center, and played ice hockey. I have seen many talented teams even when Abe was in charge. The Capitals have won ZIP.

Save me the generic management speak in his how to build a franchise. Show me a Championship, then I will sit and listen...all ears.

Post of the thread. :D

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

To be fair, The Canadiens didn't play like an 8 seed. Halak is insane.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Post of the thread. :D

You know what's annoying? When someone bumps a thread for purely masturbatory purposes.

[TK]

Just saw the rule 3 thread :(
Then you might want to see this one too (http://www.extremeskins.com/announcement.php?f=24).

[chipwhich]

You know what's annoying? When someone bumps a thread for purely masturbatory purposes.


Come on EA, I love you, but the thread was ludicrous considering that the Caps had done NOTHING but had the luck of getting the Lebron James of the sprt.

[TK]

Take it to the Tailgate or the Hockey Forum.