RotoWorld:Jon Jansen

[Smurf85]

I agree Jon has to go. He can be our backup, but that's about it.


The Redskins reportedly remain determined to replace RT Jon Jansen "for good."
The Skins deemed Jansen the weak link in their 2008 line and he'll likely return as a backup. We suspect they will draft the best tackle available with the No. 13 overall pick in April. Andre Smith or Michael Oher could be there.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx

[Skins-Canes-Mounties]

It would be great to see him remain as a cap-friendly backup after 2009, but his starting days (and high salary days) are over.

[tml6157]

Would be extremely pleased with it.

[Rypien1191]

Hes not going anywhere this year. Hell be backup to our drafted RT. Hell likely be cut in 2010, especially if theres no cap.

[SMOSS89]

It'll be a dilemma for sure. Do they want to draft an elite linebacker and get by with a lesser tackle they could get in FA or later rounds? Or do they draft elite lineman and pray they get a servicable young SAM LB somewhere?

Decisions, decisions.

[CM916]

He's only still here because of the massive cap hit we would take by cutting him. Since we're stuck with him, I hope he can find a way to be useful, perhaps as a player-coach mentoring the younger guys on the bench next to him.

[skinfan2k]

We cant afford to cut him but we have to keep him. But then i dont get where Heyer falls into the situation.

Ok, we draft a rookie OT. But who is the backup G or C? Can we afford to have both Heyer and Jansen as backups? Teams usually carry only 8 into the season

[Smurf85]

It'll be a dilemma for sure. Do they want to draft an elite linebacker and get by with a lesser tackle they could get in FA or later rounds? Or do they draft elite lineman and pray they get a servicable young SAM LB somewhere?

Decisions, decisions.

I think you will see the skins draft best Tackle at 13. After that they will move back into the 2nd round and draft the best LB available.

[RWJ]

I think you will see the skins draft best Tackle at 13. After that they will move back into the 2nd round and draft the best LB available.

They don't have a 2nd round pick. They can acquire one by trading down in the 1st round.

[Soup]

No way they cut him. He'll count for 9 million if they cut him. I thought they would swing him to guard. I've heard of older tackles going to the guard spot. Is it possible to put jansen at Center? I haven't heard a tackle switching to play center but Rabach can be cut without the big cap hit.

[skinfan2k]

Seriously you can find a LB anywhere but finding a legit Tackle usually is in the upper tier rounds

[RWJ]

Consider the source about Jansen our own "RI" article written by Jason Reid. Yes, Jansen will need to be replaced, but until a 1st round pick shows he can man RT, it's either Jansen or Heyer playing the position.

[terrifNick21]

I think you will see the skins draft best Tackle at 13. After that they will move back into the 2nd round and draft the best LB available.

How are they going to move back into the 2nd round if they use their first pick?

[Smurf85]

They don't have a 2nd round pick. They can acquire one by trading down in the 1st round.

I said they will move back into the 2nd round. They did it with Rocky and they moved into the 3rd for Cooley. If they like someone in the second they will move back into it.

[elkabong82]

It'll be a dilemma for sure. Do they want to draft an elite linebacker and get by with a lesser tackle they could get in FA or later rounds? Or do they draft elite lineman and pray they get a servicable young SAM LB somewhere?

Decisions, decisions.

It really will all depend on who is available to us when we pick.

[Hooper]

It's ridiculous. Some guy -- maybe guys -- who deserve to make the roster this year will be cut because of Jansen and his huge salary. Big Jon is hurting the team in more ways than one now. It's a different kind of cap hell.

[RWJ]

I said they will move back into the 2nd round. They did it with Rocky and they moved into the 3rd for Cooley. If they like someone in the second they will move back into it.

The possibly and probably will. JMO

[Smurf85]

How are they going to move back into the 2nd round if they use their first pick?

They do it all the time they trade picks from the next year.

[Oldskool]

The original inspiration for this was a JLC article

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/03/next_task_filling_teams_remain.html?wprss=redskins insider

The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good, believing he was the weakest link on a unit that broke down in the second half. During offseason meetings at the complex, the Redskins determined the ineffective play of the offensive line was among the biggest factors in the team's 2-6 slide.

Although some in the organization believe third-year tackle Stephon Heyer could be better than average as a full-time starter, others are not so sure, and the consensus is that the Redskins must attempt to find another option from outside the complex. After the team's record 24-hour spending spree, there's no cap room remaining at this point to pursue the type of rising, athletic tackles Coach Jim Zorn would want to help execute his version of the West Coast offense.

The Redskins only have four draft picks, including the 13th overall selection, and they are expected to draft a tackle. For depth purposes, the Redskins also still are in the market for a center who can play guard.

[authentic]

It would be great to see him remain as a cap-friendly backup after 2009, but his starting days (and high salary days) are over.

no it won't...He has no more use on this team. The past 3 seasons he has been average in the run game, but absolutely awful in pass protection.

[authentic]

It's ridiculous. Some guy -- maybe guys -- who deserve to make the roster this year will be cut because of Jansen and his huge salary. Big Jon is hurting the team in more ways than one now. It's a different kind of cap hell.

You know with all off the talk about Springs, Washington, & J. Taylor. I don't know why Jansen's name hasn't come up as a possible cut. I feel he should have been the first player cut.

[clarkskin]

Jansen would be great to have as a backup. He's a good lockeroom guy and is still a good player. Perhaps they'll re-work his deal for cap purposes and keep him on board. I'm all for having solid veteran backups. But based on his reaction to being beaten out by Heyer last year, I'm not sure he's willing to embrace that role. But the guy has worked his ass off for the team over the years and I hope he'll be around, albeit in a different capacity.

[moondog]

You know with all off the talk about Springs, Washington, & J. Taylor. I don't know why Jansen's name hasn't come up as a possible cut. I feel he should have been the first player cut.

Not trying to be an ass, but it's well documented on this board that we cannot cut him because if we did he would actually count nine million against our cap this year, so it actually helps our cap situation to keep him. Otherwise, in all likelihood he would have been cut.

[thesubmittedone]

It'll be a dilemma for sure. Do they want to draft an elite linebacker and get by with a lesser tackle they could get in FA or later rounds? Or do they draft elite lineman and pray they get a servicable young SAM LB somewhere?

Decisions, decisions.


I think, no matter how tempting it is to get an elite LB, drafting a Olineman right now takes top priority simply because of all the money we've just invested on Defense. Yes, an elite LB would be the icing on the cake and should make our D damn near unstoppable, but we can really do some damage without one.

I like this idea of signing Defensive FA's and drafting Offensive playmakers to develop. I wonder if that's what they're doing... Knowledge of the system is more important on the offensive side of the ball as opposed to the Defense since everyone in the NFL is pretty much doing the exact same thing on Defense, including terminology. Defensive players have much less of an adjustment, imo. We can't say the same on offense.

Dock was our only offensive FA in a couple of years and he's one of our own. He'll be coming back to play for the same coach who taught him the NFL game.

[downbeat87]

Not trying to be an ass, but it's well documented on this board that we cannot cut him because if we did he would actually count nine million against our cap this year, so it actually helps our cap situation to keep him. Otherwise, in all likelihood he would have been cut.


what about cutting him in june?!?!?

[HitStickTaylor21]

He's more expensive to let go than keep this year, but not next year, I think it's about a $2 million savings in 2010, plus there might not even be a cap.

His serious injuries have been his demise and it's time for him to go. Backup this year, gone the next. I think we have to draft his replacement at #13.

[Xero21]

Just out of curiosity, didn't Rotoworld just take a report from JLC and re-hash it?

[DieselPwr44]

what about cutting him in june?!?!?

With the CBA up in the air, I think that takes the whole "June 1st" cut for cap relief off the table.

[DexterSackMachine]

Just out of curiosity, didn't Rotoworld just take a report from JLC and re-hash it?

Yes. It is linked on the rotoworld report.

[Oldskool]

Just out of curiosity, didn't Rotoworld just take a report from JLC and re-hash it?

Thats what they do.

[DexterSackMachine]

If you really want to know when Jon Jansen will be released, don't watch the field, take a look at the salary cap chart "release fees".
http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

It would cost twice as much to cut him as keep him this season so he will stay as a backup. In 2010 he is due a pretty hefty salary for his age and the release fee goes way down so that we would "save" 2.3 million by cutting him versus keeping him.

To sum up, we will have Jon Jansen for one more season.

[GSF]

No way they cut him. He'll count for 9 million if they cut him. I thought they would swing him to guard. I've heard of older tackles going to the guard spot. Is it possible to put jansen at Center? I haven't heard a tackle switching to play center but Rabach can be cut without the big cap hit.


Why in the world would we want to move Jansen to center? He was absolutely terrible last year at the position he's played his whole career. What makes you think he's going to do better at center?

Rabach is actually still a solid player if he's got good players around him, which is why he struggled last year. Kendall and Thomas both struggled in the second half of the season.

[JoeKnowsBest]

It'll be a dilemma for sure. Do they want to draft an elite linebacker and get by with a lesser tackle they could get in FA or later rounds? Or do they draft elite lineman and pray they get a servicable young SAM LB somewhere?

Decisions, decisions.

It's much more high percentage to get a great LB in the first half of the first round, and then still be able to get a good starting Offensive Tackle by round 3 than it is the other way around. You can get ProBowl offensive linemen in rounds 2 and 3. There are many around the league to point out. One of my favorites is where the Cowboys got Andre Gurode, and also how far back in the first round *even though it was technically the first round* the Jets got Nick Mangold at 29.

There are alot more values to be had by picking Offensive linemen outside of round 1 than there ever is Linebackers.

That said, with the Giants retooling their already monstrous defensive line, we are going to need top quality linemen. We won our 3 Superbowls because we had the best offensive line in the league and maybe even NFL history with the Hogs.

[Fred Jones]

Jansen, and hopefully not Thomas, is an example of what happens when you incorrectly judge what a player has left in the tank.

Unfortunately, Jansen didn't last the 2 or 3 years the skins thought he had left.

And, his cap hit is too high this year. Have to wait until next off season to cut him. Thomas will take two years before it is worth it to cut him.

[eljeasel]

Why in the world would we want to move Jansen to center? He was absolutely terrible last year at the position he's played his whole career. What makes you think he's going to do better at center?

Rabach is actually still a solid player if he's got good players around him, which is why he struggled last year. Kendall and Thomas both struggled in the second half of the season.

He might do better at C as theres less matchups with the quicker DEs he struggled against. JJ just isnt as quick laterally as he used to be. He is still pretty damn strong. That spike Portis had had alot to do with the boost he brought to the run game at RT.

Raback/Ryback, Thomas, Kendall. Might be a chicken or the egg type thing. I didnt really see Kendall struggling as much as people make it out to see. I did see Thomas get beat 1 on 1 sometimes. I saw Ryback getting owned often. Only 1 center in the league gave up more sacks than he did (http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=40510 if you buy these stats). Plus, I just dont like him that much.

[ZRagone]

It'll be a dilemma for sure. Do they want to draft an elite linebacker and get by with a lesser tackle they could get in FA or later rounds? Or do they draft elite lineman and pray they get a servicable young SAM LB somewhere?

Decisions, decisions.

Alright, here's what I think we should be looking at.

First, this hinges on two likely things...

1. Mark Sanchez is still on the board.
2. William Beaty along with EITHER (or both) Oher and Andre Smith are on the board.

Second, here's what I hope we do. You have these teams after us that may need/want a QB:

New York Jets
Chicago Bears
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Detroit Lions (if they take a lineman #1)
Minnesota Vikings

On the plus side, with Kansas City now having a new QB there's few people BEFORE us that need a QB. We're right near the start of the likely possible 1st round run.

Bid the teams against each other. If the Lions are in it you go for them first, and then work down from the Jets down making it out that they don't want to chance someone else taking the #2 QB in the draft.

You dangle out an offer for their 1st and 2nd in exchange for your first. I said go for Detroit if possible because then you get a VERY early 2nd rounder.

If we pull this off then we may not get an "Elite" of either (Though its still possible) but we can get a "Good" of both.

For the 1st round pick you grab Smith, Oher, or Beaty depending on whose available.

For the 2nd round pick you look at the Best Available LB. Likely the one that'll be present there is Clint Sintim whose a fast, good rushing linebacker that'll easily be a solid starter.

This free's up the 3rd round to possibly grab a Center or Guard for backup.

[z0eboy]

come on people stop talking crazy :doh1: hell will freeze over before bugel lets a rookie start at RT.

Heyer will start with Jansen backing up until his contract is cap friendly. If we draft a Tackle it will be in later rounds as prospects.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

We're drafting a sexy position like linebacker.

[Oldskool]

come on people stop talking crazy :doh1: hell will freeze over before bugel lets a rookie start at RT.

Heyer will start with Jansen backing up until his contract is cap friendly. If we draft a Tackle it will be in later rounds as prospects.

How much experience did Heyer have before starting last year? Exactly 5 games. So if you're Buges are you going to be OK with a 1st round rookie starting at ROT? he was ok with a UDFA 2nd year player with 5 total starts.

So in other words...

http://members.aye.net/~gharris/blog/frozen_hell.jpg

[GSF]

He might do better at C as theres less matchups with the quicker DEs he struggled against. JJ just isnt as quick laterally as he used to be. He is still pretty damn strong. That spike Portis had had alot to do with the boost he brought to the run game at RT.

Raback/Ryback, Thomas, Kendall. Might be a chicken or the egg type thing. I didnt really see Kendall struggling as much as people make it out to see. I did see Thomas get beat 1 on 1 sometimes. I saw Ryback getting owned often. Only 1 center in the league gave up more sacks than he did (http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=40510 if you buy these stats). Plus, I just dont like him that much.

Jansen is not still pretty damn strong. He got routinely pushed straight back into Campbell. He wouldn't be any better at center, he'd be worse. Rabach is not a huge guy. He needs a little help against the bigger DTs. He got no help last season.

[GSF]

I also am in the camp that Heyer will probably be the starter, although don't forget about Rinehart. I believe he played some RT in college, and he's known for being versatile.

[Johnny Punani]

As a Wolverine fan I am sad to see Jansen's last days as a Redskin. However, it is obvious to anyone that he is not the same player he use to be. We need to draft a RT with the 13th pick.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think you will see the skins draft best Tackle at 13. After that they will move back into the 2nd round and draft the best LB available.

If we are going to have to trade future picks, why not trade back into the first for Maualuga if he falls late into the round? There are major predraft questions about three of the most talented players in the draft (Oher, A. Smith, and Maualuga) I love it.

If we were somehow able to land Oher or Smith and then Maualuga, IMO this would go down as one of the greatest offseasons any team with 4 draft picks and no cap room ever had.

[Area51]

I would really like to see Jansen at RG. I think he can be a pretty good one for 2-3 years.

[Vicious]

I would really like to see Jansen at RG. I think he can be a pretty good one for 2-3 years.

[radagast5]

Can I suggest an alternate solution for Jansen?

Keep him on the roster; it's cheaper and he's the perfect depth guy. In 2010, release him, but offer him an immediate coaching gig.

He's a smart guy. The players respect him. He's an excellent communicator, and Buges isn't going to coach forever. Like Grimm before him (who also ran out of gas at a similar age), I think he's got Coach written all over him.

Thoughts?

[That Redskins Fan]

I strongly believe 13 is going to offensive takle

and I agree with others in this thread the Skins are going to trade in the secound round I now that is not going to be popular on this board, but i am looking for 2010 pick maybe first or secound and maybe a player thrown in to get a secound in 09.

However, I think linebacker might not be the pick and I think it could be Percy Harvin or Brian Robiske the skins have been talking to Robiske since the senior bowl and the combine as for harvin ..the skins were talking to him combine and showed a more than passing intrest. I could be wrong but that rasies my eyebrows a bit

[Veretax]

We cant afford to cut him but we have to keep him. But then i dont get where Heyer falls into the situation.

Ok, we draft a rookie OT. But who is the backup G or C? Can we afford to have both Heyer and Jansen as backups? Teams usually carry only 8 into the season


Jansen stays at least for one more year, assuming we draft another RT he'd back up RT, and heyer would back up samuels (he does better on the left I think). We still have Geisinger who i thought was our backup center and guard. I just want fabini and such gone. (if they aren't already).

[addicted]

No way they cut him. He'll count for 9 million if they cut him. I thought they would swing him to guard. I've heard of older tackles going to the guard spot. Is it possible to put jansen at Center? I haven't heard a tackle switching to play center but Rabach can be cut without the big cap hit.

He costs 3,413,000 million to keep this year, and costs 6,188,000 to release. Next season he costs 6,413,000 to keep and to release would cost us 4,125,000. That means between now and then if we release him in 2010 we actually pay him more then releasing him now..

Option 1: Release Jansen now, cost $6,188,000
Option 2: Pay Jansen 2009 salary and release in 2010, cost 7,538,000

Since we only have potentially 5 million dollars on the cap (if we released three players, if not 3.5 million) we can't do it. But it makes more financial sense to release him this year then to wait if you don't think he has any value to the team this year from a dollar standpoint. The coaches do think he has value and with the question marks surrounding Heyer being capable of taking over the job full time the teams decided to go with Jansen another year and look at drafting the long term replacement in April.

[eljeasel]

He costs 3,413,000 million to keep this year, and costs 6,188,000 to release. Next season he costs 6,413,000 to keep and to release would cost us 4,125,000. That means between now and then if we release him in 2010 we actually pay him more then releasing him now..

Option 1: Release Jansen now, cost $6,188,000
Option 2: Pay Jansen 2009 salary and release in 2010, cost 7,538,000

Since we only have potentially 5 million dollars on the cap (if we released three players, if not 3.5 million) we can't do it. But it makes more financial sense to release him this year then to wait if you don't think he has any value to the team this year from a dollar standpoint. The coaches do think he has value and with the question marks surrounding Heyer being capable of taking over the job full time the teams decided to go with Jansen another year and look at drafting the long term replacement in April.

I dont think you have your numbers right.

This year its cheaper to keep him($3.4 mill) than cut him ($6mill). You cut him this year it runs you an extra $3million. Why would you cut him now, finnancially at least.

Next year it costs $4mil to cut him and $6mil to keep him so you save $2million by cutting him.

Unless I have it wrong (which is a possibility obviously)