Is this Offense good enough?

[we_want_56]

I gotta admit I'm real excited about the this year. (That's every year though). But this year I feel like we can ake a step into being the Best in the League.

The offense however was at fault for most of our losses last year...It was my opinion last year, the O-Line was most to blame for that.

So I guess what I'm asking is Is this Offense good enough to make us a playoff team? (I feel the D is/ will be with a LB).

If not what steps should we take to make this Offense good enough?

I'd put up my opinion but I honestly don't know.

Toughts?

[tml6157]

If we pick up or draft a RT then yes.

[RyansRangers]

Nope..............

[Hunter_R]

It scored less point than the '08 Detroit Lions. What do you think?

[Smurf85]

We need a good RT and a BIG WR. If Thomas or Kelly don't pick it up this year our offense will have problems.

[TheLongshot]

It depends a lot on Campbell and the young WRs picking things up.

[Smurf85]

It depends a lot on Campbell and the young WRs picking things up.

Yep that and the o-line giving JC time to pass.

[pez]

Our D is playoff capable, I don't think our O is.. yet.

It will come down to a couple of factors:

O-line - These guys are the most important, because they are responsible for our pass
protection, and how well our running game is. The acquisition of Dockery is a question
mark, as I am not sure if he has regressed or picked up any bad habits in Buffalo. I am
hoping no, and if he can play as well as he did before, it should help out JC's blindside, as
it seems Samuels and Dock have gret chemistry. The other side is a big question mark
with Jansen and Heyer neither seem to really impress at this point, and really both should
be backups. The problem is, everyone talks about drafting someone to take over that
spot, and I have a problem with that. Even if we do draft a great o-lineman, I am not
sure that they will be ready for this season. It can sometimes take much time to work
your way into a starting role, and coaches most of the time are very hesitant to start
rookies.

Running backs - Can Clinton hold up for a full season next year? Boy did he put up some
yards last year, but with the breakdown of our o-line, same went his production.. I think
as long as clinton is healthy we are ok. Betts is ok to spell portis, but I really don't think
he is a full time starting guy. Yes he did have that one great year when clinton went
down, but I am not sure he can do that again. Boy do I wish we had a pounder like
Jacobs.

Wide Receivers - ARE is good for a pass every now and then, Santana I think could be
great (again) when Jason realizes he is not 6' 5" and has to jump up for every pass, and
could also benefit from last years draft class if they step up. The rookies need to get
their head in the game. Even if they became average, that wuld greatly improve our
game. These guys better have their head in the playbook over the offseason, and work
like hell in training camp.

QB - *Sigh* I really had high hopes for Jason, but I just don't know anymore. I feel that
this year is his last chance. He would benefit greatly from a better o-line (once again),
but sometimes he seems hot and other times he regresses into the same old
hold-the-ball-too-long, stare-down-his-receivers kinda guy we have seen in the past. I
just don't know how this will pan out... it is the greatest question mark.

I think it all comes down to o-line, and I am not completely sure that our draftees will be
starters.

[2cents]

Right now...NO. Note to Zorn, you do not have the guys to run a pure WCO. Figure out what these guys are good at and do that. Enough with the "system". Just play football.

[1972FAN]

No, we need at the least a starting OT (13th pick ), and even then the 1st team will be good, but will be thin on quality backups if anybody goes down.
We still need a starting OLB as well.

[IbleedBnG83]

Given the OL holds up, it all depends on JC, Zorn, and the young receivers.

[Oldskool]

As was posted many times by myself and others, the WCO takes time to fully grasp and digest. Factor in an aging O-line, rookie WR's and an abomination at RT, it makes it that much harder.

Personally I think with Blockhead back at OG, a rookie - monster ROT, and Kelly/Thomas one more year in the system, the offense should be better than last year.

['SKINSRICH]

Yep that and the o-line giving JC time to pass.
I agree,
Kelly and Thomas need to bust their butts this offseason. I think another year in this system will benefit Campbell greatly, but it all starts up front. Without the protection it will be a repeat performance of last season. Then Coach Zorn will be looking for QB coaching gigs after this season, because he'll be outta here.

[Stew]

No, unfortunately, our offense isnt good enough. It depends a lot onCampbell yes, but also on Moss and Cooley catching the balls that hit them in the hands. We need the young recievers to man up and produce on the field. Id be happy if we brought in a WR and drafted the rest of what we need. We dont need a game breaker, but a tall, proven and capable reciever to play accross the middle for us. Use our draft picks on linemen and linebackers and then I think we would be ready.

[Riggo-toni]

No. This will be a repeat of 2004 - scary defense hobbled by anemic offense.

[downbeat87]

As was posted many times by myself and others, the WCO takes time to fully grasp and digest. Factor in an aging O-line, rookie WR's and an abomination at RT, it makes it that much harder.

Personally I think with Blockhead back at OG, a rookie - monster ROT, and Kelly/Thomas one more year in the system, the offense should be better than last year.


frankly, i think we'll actually see the full offense this year.

i dont mean itll be better, but we will see the full offense next year, without a doubt.

[maskedsuperstar]

Running backs - Can Clinton hold up for a full season next year? Boy did he put up some
yards last year, but with the breakdown of our o-line, same went his production.. I think
as long as clinton is healthy we are ok. Betts is ok to spell portis, but I really don't think
he is a full time starting guy. Yes he did have that one great year when clinton went
down, but I am not sure he can do that again. Boy do I wish we had a pounder like
Jacobs..

Don't be surprised if the Skins get a RB in the draft. I don't know about Betts. Betts isn't really a threat. The Skins need a back that is a threat, when Portis is taking breather. Could the Skins pass on Knowshon Moreno?
I'm looking for more moves from the front office. Betts could be trade bait.

[Oldskool]

Don't be surprised if the Skins get a RB in the draft. I don't know about Betts. Betts isn't really a threat. The Skins need a back that is a threat, when Portis is taking breather. Could the Skins pass on Knowshon Moreno?
I'm looking for more moves from the front office. Betts could be trade bait.


:chair: No way in hell do they waste a 1st round pick on an incomplete RB like Moreno when there are issues that completely dwarf getting another RB in scale and magnitude.

Seriously. :doh:

[JeepRyder]

This season comes down to Jason Campbell and either Thomas or Kelly have to show up this year to help Santana. If that happens we will be good. Its that simple. The defense will be awesome.

[clarkskin]

No. This will be a repeat of 2004 - scary defense hobbled by anemic offense.

What is your basis for a stupid statement like that? We have more youth at the skill positions now, with a QB that will benefit from an improved O-line. We won't be starting from scratch again with a new system. The first 8 games showed a lot of promis, and the last 8 revealed weakness in pass protection and run blocking. Our draft picks from last year will have had a season under their belt and should be ready to contribute. Obviously, time will tell, but a comparison to 2004 is downright foolish.

[redskins0756]

I gotta admit I'm real excited about the this year. (That's every year though). But this year I feel like we can ake a step into being the Best in the League.

The offense however was at fault for most of our losses last year...It was my opinion last year, the O-Line was most to blame for that.

So I guess what I'm asking is Is this Offense good enough to make us a playoff team? (I feel the D is/ will be with a LB).

If not what steps should we take to make this Offense good enough?

I'd put up my opinion but I honestly don't know.

Toughts?

We have 4 solid receivers, one of the top TE's in the game, one of the top RB's in the game, and an offensive line that has been upgraded in FA and likely in the draft.

Unfortunately it's a no because the quarterback is incapable of leading this team.

[redskins0756]

:chair: No way in hell do they waste a 1st round pick on an incomplete RB like Moreno when there are issues that completely dwarf getting another RB in scale and magnitude.

Seriously. :doh:

How could the Skins pass on Knowshown Moreno? Easy we have 2 capable backs but our linebacking corp, offensive line, and defensive line still need A LOT more help than the running back position.

Maybe a local guy like Cedric Peerman?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It scored less point than the '08 Detroit Lions. What do you think?

Thank you Hunter, saved me replying in depth.

Hail.

[MustangSteve]

I don't know what to think about this offense, they got worse as the year went on. I didn't see anything exciting about it, no threat whatsoever, and I sure hope something changes this offseason. I truely believe the players can get it done, they have proved that. Just needed a few upgrades, but still not too sure about this system as of now.

[dieselfan44]

That'd be a negative....nothing has been done to improve the O in this offseason...you could say that Dock was an upgrade but I think Kendall did a pretty good job and that the signing was more about filling the hole that Kendall will leave when someone picks him up. We gotta start the season with Thomas in the starting lineup. Let Malcolm and Randle El battle it out for #3. If we can't do much with the ball in the first few games then its time for Colt.

[skinny21]

It scored less point than the '08 Detroit Lions. What do you think?

Sure we scored less than Detroit... do you honestly believe our offense was worse than theirs though? Perhaps you do I guess... wouldn't surprise me, but our offense wasn't half bad minus the redzone, which should improve this year. Okay, okay the second half of the year was not pretty, but this seemed (to me at least) directly correlated to line play.
In terms of the line, I have no idea how Dock will affect this line, but I love the idea of having a guy that can practice daily.
To me, the big question mark is Jason (perhaps Zorn to a degree too)... Moss, Cooley, one (at least) of the 2nd rounders, our running game and system continuity should improve this offense - particularly redzone scoring.
If our defense plays as they should, this will also help the offense

[Rexrode21]

Running backs - Can Clinton hold up for a full season next year? Boy did he put up some
yards last year, but with the breakdown of our o-line, same went his production.. I think
as long as clinton is healthy we are ok. Betts is ok to spell portis, but I really don't think
he is a full time starting guy. Yes he did have that one great year when clinton went
down, but I am not sure he can do that again. Boy do I wish we had a pounder like
Jacobs.



I agree with everything you've said here except the last sentence. Instead of a bruiser I would much rather take a Darren Sproles type that can break into the secondary and not get caught from behind. Portis loves hitting tacklers first and will continue to do so. I want a fast guy who can get out in the flats for catches as well. I just don't think we'll be getting one in the draft and I don't see any in free agency worth grabbing. Maybe we'll get extremely lucky with our pick up from the CFL and he'll turn into a gem. :laugh:

[skins2victory]

Yep that and the o-line giving JC time to pass.

-Thats right!! And that is why we drafted doc. Now the key is how good will Rinhart be this year.

-If Rinhart recovers well from his injury this offseason and can play well I think the O-Line problem may be fixed. My question is should Jansen be apart of the OLine next year, he was a big problem late in the year.

-Players that need to step it up for next year: Rinhart, Thomas, Kelly!!
Lots of people our saying we have a good D, but what about the O. The answer is our draft picks last year were for the O, and they all got banged up early which set them back. I feel the season is going to heavely rely on those 3 players. We picked them last year to make the O better. Now they need to get it done!!!!!

[eljeasel]

Sure we scored less than Detroit... do you honestly believe our offense was worse than theirs though? Perhaps you do I guess... wouldn't surprise me, but our offense wasn't half bad minus the redzone, which should improve this year. Okay, okay the second half of the year was not pretty, but this seemed (to me at least) directly correlated to line play.

Detroit:
RZ Possessions: 31
RZ TD: 19
FG: 7
RZ Scoring %: .839
RZ TD %: .613

Washington:
RZ Possessions: 48
RZ TD: 23
FG: 15
RZ Scoring %: .792
RZ TD %: .479

Just to give some reference...

Indy:
RZ Possessions: 50
RZ TD: 34
FG: 11
RZ Scoring %: .900
RZ TD %: .680

We get the ball into the RZ enough. Indy only got the ball into the RZ twice more. The offense continues to stall once there though. This is the same problem that this team has had since the 05-06 playoff run. The good offenses punch that ball in and get 6. Untill those new RZ targets get on that field, expect more of the same.

[A Skinhead in Saints Land]

We have 4 solid receivers, one of the top TE's in the game, one of the top RB's in the game, and an offensive line that has been upgraded in FA and likely in the draft.

Unfortunately it's a no because the quarterback is incapable of leading this team.

Who are our 4 solid receivers? Did you watch the same team I did last year? I think we have have to get a RT, enough said. Also, even though he wouldn't think this, but we need another runningback. We need to adopt a two runningback system, because Portis is breaking down the last half of the season.

[skinsfan_1215]

This question needs a qualifier... good enough for what?

To make the playoffs? Absolutely. I only say this because I think that if this works out like I think it will we'll have the best defense in the league this year, in terms of yards and points allowed. Also, the addition of Haynesworth WILL lead to more turnovers, probably a few pick-6s as well. Those are game changers, so it will be a big plus.


To make/win the Super Bowl? MAYBE... Again, our defense should carry us into the playoffs. If our O-line can remain solid throughout the season, JC progresses, AND we get some more production out of Thomas/Davis/Kelly, then I think we might be a team to contend with in January.



If our offense can improve by just a few points per game over last season, we should be able to improve from 8-8 to maybe 11-5/12-4, assuming our defense is going to be as nasty as I think it will. I'm obviously an incredibly optimistic homer, but don't hate... We'll just see how this season plays out. I'm very hopeful right now though, something I definitely wasn't a week ago.

[Skins-in-CT]

Actually, I think it's too early to ask the question. I don't think we will have a good idea until after the draft, or better yet, after OTA's. There are still a few FA's out there we could pick up, even though I don't know how we would fit them in under our cap. Ray Willis from the Seahawks is still out there and could be an option as well.

I do think it all rests with the line and how we improve the right side.

[jamestrash]

I agree with the consensus about the roster, but add that the playcalling and gameplans stunk in the second half of the season. Where were the perfectly timed gadget plays and gutsy 4th down calls? Campbell seemed to grasp the offense perfectly when we were going 6-2, and I think Zorn made a mistake by not adding more wrinkles to the scheme as the season progressed and opponents began to catch on to us via film.
And no one complained then about the lack of productivity from the rooks, the crapiness of the line or that Randle-El's really a third wide receiver.
So give me a RT who can maul and a gutsy unconventional coach and I think we'll be fine.

[HailGreen28]

You gotta ask yourself, what's changed from last year?

Our players are another year older. For most of our personnel, this is bad. Make or break time for our young WRs.

They also have another year's experience with the same system. Can Campbell put it together this year?

Given our regression last season, I'm praying we get more o-line help (for the future if nothing else), and Zorn can implement a system our offense can actually score with.

No sign we've had much positive change. We still have the draft (4 picks?) and training camp.

HTTR

[Pounds]

So I guess what I'm asking is Is this Offense good enough to make us a playoff team? (I feel the D is/ will be with a LB).

During the first half on '08, our offense was the strongest of the three units and during the second half slide, each of the three units were equally poor.

I believe our offense is good enough to be considered playoff calibre, even if it isn't doesn't score 30+ points a game. Time of possession, in my opinion, is one of the more appropriate gauges for good offense.

[AAARedskin]

If I were Vinny, I would draft TWO O-linemen.....not just one. I would DEFINITELY try to trade down as far as I could to pick up at least 1 extra draft pick. I would seriously consider drafting a running back, AND a WR......this offense needs plenty of help with all of the issues dealing with Malcolm Kelly and the other pass-catchers who weren't ready to play last season.....

[Skinsfor4]

As was posted many times by myself and others, the WCO takes time to fully grasp and digest. Factor in an aging O-line, rookie WR's and an abomination at RT, it makes it that much harder.

Personally I think with Blockhead back at OG, a rookie - monster ROT, and Kelly/Thomas one more year in the system, the offense should be better than last year.


Man I like your optimism and I agree with all you said.:point2sky

[Rexrode21]

If I were Vinny, I would draft TWO O-linemen.....not just one. I would DEFINITELY try to trade down as far as I could to pick up at least 1 extra draft pick. I would seriously consider drafting a running back, AND a WR......this offense needs plenty of help with all of the issues dealing with Malcolm Kelly and the other pass-catchers who weren't ready to play last season.....

We don't need 2 OL. We need to grab one of the Big 4 and use our 3rd round or try and use a pick from next year to get into the 2nd round and get a LB. You will not find a starting OL (especially in the tackle spot) outside of the first or early 2nd round. If we get a solid OT and even a decent OLB in the first 2-3 rounds then we can look at skill positions (RB, WR) in the 3rd and 6th rounds. We already have several OL on the roster, and unless we start cutting some of the old guys then we only should draft one.

[MCnDaHouse]

If we can get the offensive line straightened out and playing well so that we can run the ball and pass protect, the offense will take care of itself. I'm not sold on Campbell either but from game 2 till the OL went sour he looked decent. He frustrates me on the deep throws though, he just isn't very accurate on those.

[DGREENHULK]

As was posted many times by myself and others, the WCO takes time to fully grasp and digest. Factor in an aging O-line, rookie WR's and an abomination at RT, it makes it that much harder.

Personally I think with Blockhead back at OG, a rookie - monster ROT, and Kelly/Thomas one more year in the system, the offense should be better than last year.

"Abomination at RT" Thank you for mentioning this fact. I think your right with a healthy and younger Oline combined with a 2nd year in this offense for JC and the 2 Rookie WR's the offense will be much improved. Now a playoff offense...not sold on that one yet

[jfr3ek]

invest in a good O line that can withstand punishment (a la the HOGS) and we'll be a contender every year.

[ABSTRACT]

As long as we improve our O-line, then who knows??....

Kelly might be a super star and Thomas might be better than we think... nobody really knows.

I believe Kelly, Thomas, and Davis can get it done. I am confident that Kelly will take ARE's spot and our WR rotation will be effective.

Our O-line should look decent this year and a second year in the same offensive system should do Jason well. He must be inelligent to learn so many different systems and adapt well in a short amount of time. So I am excited to see what he can do in a second year with the same system and an improved O-line.

Zorn will also be back and stronger O-line play will cause us to call plays that do not involve 70% screens and short routes. Jason will get more time and I think we will see him sling it alot more.

We will be a threat this year.

[ABSTRACT]

I also cannot wait to see if Anthony Aldridge or Dominique DOrsey makes the cut.

This is my ideal lineup:
1.Portis
2.Cartright
3.DOrsey
4.Aldridge

With an imroved O-line and a developing WCO passing system, we should be able to establish a strong run game.

[NoleSkin21]

Right now? NO. Next year with a new QB? Yes!! Campbell just doesn't have "IT". I've heard all of the arguments about the different OC's, the oline, etc etc. Time to cut bait my friends.

[Skinsinparadise]

our offense wasn't half bad minus the redzone, which should improve this year. Okay, okay the second half of the year was not pretty, but this seemed (to me at least) directly correlated to line play.

To me, the big question mark is Jason (perhaps Zorn to a degree too)... Moss, Cooley, one (at least) of the 2nd rounders, our running game and system continuity should improve this offense - particularly redzone scoring. If our defense plays as they should, this will also help the offense

I agree with what you point out as question marks with Zorn for me being atop of the list. A lot of us brushed aside Portis' comments as Clinton just being Clinton but clearly a lack of faith in Zorn extends beyond Clinton. In the same Portis articles it was said some players privately agree with him.

The last Warpath issue mentioned a couple of players don't think Zorn has what it takes and that he doesn't have the "imagination" to be a good player caller. A Ravens player said on the radio after playing the Skins, how easy it was to figure out the offense. I recall Kendall in an interview rolled his eyes and said "yeah its always execution."

In a weird way since it was Clinton speaking out, it was brushed aside. But we saw this team struggle against some of the worst teams in the NFL including the Lions. They lost to the Rams, SF, Cincy. Barely beat Cleveland where the offense perhaps played the worst game of the season. So yeah in terms of the offense just faltering at the end, thanks to injuries or a tougher schedule at the end, I personally don't buy it.

The team has a pro bowl LT, pro bowl FB, pro bowl RB, pro bowl TE, former pro bowl WR -- and it all adds up to one of the worst offenses in the NFL? Yes, they can use more O line help and yeah another receiver. But look at what Cameron did in Baltimore with a rookie QB, new system, and arguably no electric playmakers on his offense.

IMO this offense has the talent to be at least average. And I don't put this all on Campbell. Is it Campbell's conservative tendencies that are holding back Zorn's inventive offense? Zorn tells Jason go deep, and Jason says sorry and throws a 3 year slant or a 5 yard curl instead?

Sorry for the long post, my point is that I do agree with the post that says this offense could be terrible again with Zorn calling the plays. Hopefully not but it doesn't seem a reach to me that the offense doesn't make strides.

Yeah Kelly and Thomas catching those 3 yard slants and turning them into occasional 8 yard plays should make things better. But IMO at least from what I've seen Zorn doesn't have much up his sleeve as a play caller aside from short passes and hope the WR breaks loose for a bigger gain. And as Brian Mitchell said after the game against SF, Zorn is simply outcoached by a Mike Martz type. For the moment when I listen to Zorn I don't get the vibe that yeah he will out fox the better D coordinators in the league.

Zorn will be up against Gregg Williams for example this season, something tells me that Gregg gets the best of that duel, etc. Gregg clearly had an arrogant streak, but personally I bought into it, I actually felt he was going to out game plan the oppositon. I can't speak for you, but I don't get that vibe from watching Zorn.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

Not until Colt is put in. And I'm being serious.

[CTSkins413]

The O is plenty good enough! Just think, we started last season 6 and 2 much because coach Zorn was reluctant to install his version of the WCO so he stuck mainly to J Gibbs' smash mouth NFC East style of simple and effective offense. Every new addition to an offense yields at first a,"What are we doing?, period" We have had that. I think we will see a high powered hybrid of Dick Cormier/Bill Walsh philosophy's. Our rookies have cut thier teeth, our QB has had a chance to learn and work the offense, and Dock is back!
Look out....
HAIL

[darrelgreenie]

So I guess what I'm asking is Is this Offense good enough to make us a playoff team? (I feel the D is/ will be with a LB).

If not what steps should we take to make this Offense good enough?

I'd put up my opinion but I honestly don't know.

Toughts?

This is a good question.

I think even without making any changes the offense will improve.

Here's why:

o a second year in Zorn's version of the WCO
-Zorn will have more time to work with JC and every QB Zorn has worked with has improved every year
-Zorn 1st year is over and has better idea of the requirements and changes he needs to make i.e. (Getting the younof WRs/TE involved)
-Zorn has brought in another one of 'his' guys in Wachenhiem which should increase the amount WCO know on the coaching staff
-The coaching staff and player will know the system better and should execute the offense at a higher level

o Haynesworth should have a ripple effect on the defense and coach Palermo has said that he is making a more of an effort to get more pressure and sacks

-more pressure more sacks should result in more turnovers
which should result in more possesions for the offense
-more turnovers could mean more chances for the defense to score
- more T/O means more short fields which equals more points

Then you have to think that the addition of Dockery and change from Jansen or Heyer improves the offensive line, but imo there are still some moves to make if they think that Rinehart isn't ready to start.

HTTR!

[wvtbred]

Not until Colt is put in. And I'm being serious.

at a minimum Jason has to go once that happens we have a chance and I am being very serious as well

[Never4get#21]

Our offense was just fine when we were 6-2. Teams adjusted and we didnt. The OL fell to injuries and so did the team.

This season we added youth with Dock, and hopefully we add more with a RT at #13. A solid OL will bring the running game back. Davis and Cooley will also play a more prominant role. Moss/Thomas/Kelly and ARE in the slot. The offense should "return" to that 6-2 form. With a improved DL we should see more turnovers and better field position. The defense was ranked 4th and we added the best defensive tackle in football, so yes there is a upside to this season regardless. Im not going to predict SB but paloffs is looking rather nice.

[SkinInsite]

I'd feel alot better if we had a new RT.

[deejaydana]

Our biggest question mark, for me personally, is still under center. We certainly need more O line help, which we should get in the draft. The 2nd year wide outs need to show we were smart in picking them.

Wait, what was the question again?

[DB44]

My Answer: NO (This should start with a poll)

Needs:
QB - find another or Jason needs to play better. Great QB's find a way to get it done.
C - Rabach is weak. Gets pushed around a lot. (Draft)
RG - Thomas has had too many injuries. Not as fast or strong as he used to be. (Draft)
RT - Jansen is done (draft)

WR - Moss should be a #2. Randle El-slot. Young guys need to step up to be #1 or (FA would work)