Screw TO, Torry Holt will be available tomorrow

[PleaseBlitz]

Holt is younger, much less of a pain in the ass, and an equally good WR.

Unless you are looking forward to bringing a circus to town, Holt is clearly the more attractive addition if you want this team to sign a WR. Stats are extremely close except for last year when Holt's offense had NO line and no QB.

[onnie007]

Torry Holt is 32 years old and we don't play on turf so I say no to Holt. He will not come cheap and I think dedicating money to older WR like that will set us back. Let Thomas and Kelly continue to develop and show their real value in their 2 years. Please be patient.

[rx7outkast]

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. He would be a fantastic addition along the lines of what Henry Ellard was able to do for us years ago.

Regards

[Stew]

how tall is Holt?

[TorresA]

how tall is Holt?


Not as tall as Mix

[SKOALSKIN]

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. He would be a fantastic addition along the lines of what Henry Ellard was able to do for us years ago.

Regards

You took the words out of my mouth. I was thinking Henry Ellard. Tory Holt would be an ideal complement. Hopefully he can help that scrub thomas.

[rd421]

Not as tall as this guy
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/worldclassjerk/Redskins%20Training%20Camp%202008/mix.jpg he is tall :drool:

[onnie007]

Holt is 6'0. I like him and his Larry Fitzgerald-like catching qualities (minus the height cause Fitz is 6'3") but he is old and plays his best on the turf.

[terpskins10]

It's this kind of mentality that kills this team every year and never allows it to develop into an elite franchise.

Signing Holt throws away two perfectly good draft picks with potential, based on the sole fact that they didn't contribute right away. How many more years of mediocrity do we need to endure until our fans realize that you need to throw your young players into the water, see if they can swim, and let them learn before you try to go out and replace them?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

As good a guy as Holt is, and as great a career as he's had, I don't think this would be a positive move if were trying to take a new direction, get younger, and sort this mess out for the long haul.

BUT, if it come down to him or Me-O, then it's Torry Holt all the way baby!

Hail.

*Just an aside: If we were considering Holt as a vet. presence for the short term, then you'd have to throw Harrison in there too and see who'd come for the lowest price.

[MattFancy]

I think if we get him cheap it would be great! I think he could mentor Thomas and Kelly and help Thomas run better routes. Holt isn't the fastest WR, but he runs great routes. I wouldn't object to this at all

[texasthunder]

I wouldnt mind getting Holt, but only if we were to part ways with Randle El.
But I dont see any of that happening, so I just hope the lines keep getting attention.

[Farbod21]

Torry Holt is 32 years old and we don't play on turf so I say no to Holt. He will not come cheap and I think dedicating money to older WR like that will set us back. Let Thomas and Kelly continue to develop and show their real value in their 2 years. Please be patient.

:wave:

[Koolblue13]

This would have been the best move last year.

We have to see how our young guys develop. Give another year or two and see if we have a hole there.

Hindsight- Trade for Holt(3rd) Trade UP for Grubbs (1rst & 2nd). Win!

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

See.....now everybody wants a WR, I told yall we shouldve went after TJ Housz.....

[SirClintonPortis]

I'd much rather have Holt as a mentor to the WR's than T.O. Last thing we need is T.O making prima donnas out of Kelly and/or Thomas.
That said, I think that WR is not that big of a priority at the moment and on the fence at signing any WR.

[Smurf85]

Yeah great idea lets get another smurf.

[Hitnskins]

It's this kind of mentality that kills this team every year and never allows it to develop into an elite franchise.

Signing Holt throws away two perfectly good draft picks with potential, based on the sole fact that they didn't contribute right away. How many more years of mediocrity do we need to endure until our fans realize that you need to throw your young players into the water, see if they can swim, and let them learn before you try to go out and replace them?


How LONG will it take FANS to realize that just because you draft kids for a position, doesn't mean "PROBLEM FIXED"......it's hilarious to me how so many of YOU on here think that just because you draft someone = problem solved. THEY HAVE TO PRODUCE to fix the problem....even if we drafted 5 new O-Lineman this year, that doesn't automatically mean that we've fixed the offensive line. I can't understand why people on here can't figure that out.......it's like, the draft is the end all-be all!!

[skinzWILL]

It's this kind of mentality that kills this team every year and never allows it to develop into an elite franchise.

Signing Holt throws away two perfectly good draft picks with potential, based on the sole fact that they didn't contribute right away. How many more years of mediocrity do we need to endure until our fans realize that you need to throw your young players into the water, see if they can swim, and let them learn before you try to go out and replace them?

I wouldnt consider signing Holt 'throwing away' our drafts picks. In fact I think bringing in a guy like Holt to show them how to work, train, study, etc. and be a consumate professional would be a wise investment for our your guys to develop. We all know hes in the twilight of his career, and would be a short term signing

[Dan T.]

Screw em both. Let someone else sign them. Holt's been a consummate pro, but he doesn't fit any rational plan for the Redskins.

[PleaseBlitz]

Please note the inclusion of "Holt is clearly the more attractive addition if you want this team to sign a WR."

I dont want them to, but it seems as if we need to discuss it anyways with the 19 TO threads ongoing currently. :)

[terpskins10]

How LONG will it take FANS to realize that just because you draft kids for a position, doesn't mean "PROBLEM FIXED"......it's hilarious to me how so many of YOU on here think that just because you draft someone = problem solved. THEY HAVE TO PRODUCE to fix the problem....even if we drafted 5 new O-Lineman this year, that doesn't automatically mean that we've fixed the offensive line. I can't understand why people on here can't figure that out.......it's like, the draft is the end all-be all!!

You're right, it doesn't mean problem fixed. However, it does mean you're allocating resources toward the problem in the hopes that they will be able to provide a solution. I'm not saying Thomas or Kelly are the answer at wideout for us. What I am saying is that you have to allow them a shot to show that they are before trying to replace them. It's a known fact that receivers generally don't show up in their first year, and it was a foregone conclusion that Thomas was going to take a couple years to hit his stride. We knew that going in, and we were willing to be patient in order to see some potential results.

Thomas definitely has the ability to be a top-flight receiver in this league. Will he get there? I don't know. What he does need is the opportunity to let it happen.

Teams like the Colts, Steelers, and Chargers didn't get to where they are today by drafting, not getting expected results, and then moving along to the next solution. They allow their young players to grow and give them an incredibly deep, talented, championship-caliber team.

[PleaseBlitz]

*Just an aside: If we were considering Holt as a vet. presence for the short term, then you'd have to throw Harrison in there too and see who'd come for the lowest price.

That is an excellent point.

[NastyBoy]

That is an excellent point.

Gibbs Hog Heaven always makes excellent points, which is why he's a founding member on the Board or Directors! :cheers:

inside joke :cool:

[36HAMMER]

how about bobby engram ? he's played for seattle for 4 to 5 years now and been effective. he's still got something in the tank and could help our younger wr's learn the offense as well as giving us cheaper wr to help moss and randle el.

[Da Truth]

Nah, I don't want the Skins to get NONE of the wideouts thats out there

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

how about bobby engram ? he's played for seattle for 4 to 5 years now and been effective. he's still got something in the tank and could help our younger wr's learn the offense as well as giving us cheaper wr to help moss and randle el.



That's fine to.....I just want us to get at least get one new viable WR.....I cant do the Moss, ARE, Thrash, Thomas, and Kelly thing again.....Until Thomas and/or Kelly establish themselves at legitimate NFL WRs, we need to add another WR.....One WR is not going to break the bank.....

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

Nah, I don't want the Skins to get NONE of the wideouts thats out there


We shouldve tried to sign Housz to a 3 year deal....

[Taylor 36]

We don't need EITHER of them.

[Kelvin Bryant]

I'd replace R-E with Holt in a heartbeat.

[jbooma]

Holt is younger, much less of a pain in the ass, and an equally good WR.

Unless you are looking forward to bringing a circus to town, Holt is clearly the more attractive addition if you want this team to sign a WR. Stats are extremely close except for last year when Holt's offense had NO line and no QB.


I would love Holt but the Rams are going to want something for him and we need to keep our picks instead of letting another team build from them. If it is true Hold will be released then yes you go after him, next to Moss that will be what JC needs. Holt would be the #1 here for sure.

This would also suggest the WR's we got last year were both busts :(

[CowboysSaintsFan]

Holt is younger, much less of a pain in the ass, and an equally good WR.

Unless you are looking forward to bringing a circus to town, Holt is clearly the more attractive addition if you want this team to sign a WR. Stats are extremely close except for last year when Holt's offense had NO line and no QB.

He also has chronic knee problems. I would want him on my team too, but there's a reason why the Rams want to part ways with him.

[BKSkinsFan]

Many people seem comfortable with staying pat at WR and depending on Thomas and Kelly to produce. I'd much rather have a great route running WR like Holt not only as another weapon that defenses actually have to plan around, but also to provide leadership at the position.

Other than Moss and Cooley, there's nobody in the burgundy and gold that alters pass coverage plans.

[terpskins10]

Other than Moss and Cooley, there's nobody in the burgundy and gold that alters pass coverage plans.

Again, that's because no one gives our younger guys any opportunity to develop into one of those players, because our rabid fan base is so into instant gratification.

I'm sick of signing other teams' castoffs. I want to develop my own Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Julius Peppers, etc. etc.

Once we realize that these things take time, our team will be better off as a result.

[gfunk76p]

Not as tall as Mix

SO TIRED Of HEARING ABOUT MIX.

[gfunk76p]

Nicely put. Unless the guy is 27 or younger, why bother?? Holt is starting to slow down. As his speed goes so will he. GREAT player though.

[terpskins10]

SO TIRED Of HEARING ABOUT MIX.

lol They're just joking. He isn't even on the team anymore! People were just so obsessed because he was tall, and when we got two tall guys in the draft, he was expendable.

[Jimbo]

I have a feeling Jerry Jones is already trying to pry Holt away from the Rams to replace TO

[Main-Maine]

See.....now everybody wants a WR, I told yall we shouldve went after TJ Housz.....

TJ would have been good here, but not for the ammount of money he would have probaly tried to sucker us into getting. I bet he would have wanted more from the Redskins then the Seahawks.

[SkinsMaster88]

Unfortunately we restructured Randle El's contract. With him safe on the team, it doesn't make sense to bring in a big-name WR when we have Moss, ARE, Thomas, and Kelly as the top 4.

[edgun88]

Holt was a product of the greatest show on turf. Plus he is to old. Get someone younger. Haven't we learned this already??

[Bacon]

TJ Housh might have been worth it. Holt and TO would be a lateral step towards further mediocrity and poor decision-making.

[Sebowski]

Holt could be a great stop-gap until the rooks can step up.
Henry Ellard was great here. Derek Mason has been great in Baltimore. Holt can be our consistent vet.

[Braxford]

I think if we get him cheap it would be great! I think he could mentor Thomas and Kelly and help Thomas run better routes. Holt isn't the fastest WR, but he runs great routes. I wouldn't object to this at all


I think Holt would be good pickup but would he want to come here realizing we have two young guys we are trying to work with. Would he be happy compteting for time as number 3 or even 4? What about Randle El? Some players just would not make great mentors to young players trying to eventually take their playing time. I am just throwing that out there, I have no idea how Holt would be. From what I have seen from him I think he is a good guy. But he has always been the number one or number two guy with the Rams.

[J-bomb]

Hey if Dallas can take a 9 mil cap hit then why can't we? Dump El and Trash and bring in Holt to mentor the young guys and be our #2 with moss! It wouldn't be the first time we would be paying a guy who isn't on the roster anymore!

[MWCREDSKINS]

Much rather have Holt, he can be a great mentor for Thomas, Kelly and even Santana could learn a couple things from him

[JTC228]

I do like Holt more than T.O. or Harrison. He is atleast 3 years younger than both of them and he has actually had 3 more TD's than Harrison over the last 3 years, and a lot more receptions and yards. A lot of that was because Harrison only played 5 games 2 years ago. But I still think Holt has a few good years left in him to further let our young guys develop. I would much rather be able to go 3 wide with Santana, Holt and Thomas than have Randle-El in that mix.

[Skinsfor4]

No thanks,let our Draft picks try and do what we got them to do.

[terpfan]

If he comes at a decent price I'd love to have him. Holt and Moss would be a solid 1-2 with ARE in the slot and it would take some pressure of the rookies. Holt isnt big but he is a very good possesion receiver: he runs great routes and doesnt drop the ball.

He's older and clearly tailing off so we may be able to get him at a reasonable price. I'd be all for it. (I actually have a Torry Holt Rams jersey that I bought years and years ago - back when he wore #88 - just because I liked him as a player. It'd be great to bring that out of retirement. Hell, he would probably even wear #88 here, as #81 is definitely off limits.)

[pjfootballer]

Nah, no more WRs. Let the kids develop.

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

[quote=terpskins10;6193778]

It's this kind of mentality that kills this team every year and never allows it to develop into an elite franchise.

Signing Holt throws away two perfectly good draft picks with potential....[Quote]





:bsflag:


No it doesnt...........it gives Thomas and Kelly time to develope. It takes the pressure off of them from having to be our top WRs "tomorrow". Signing a WR for 1-2 year deal does not mean we've given up on our 2 draft pix from last year. Get a grip......

[the12thSkin]

I'd take marvin over both of them.

[terpskins10]

No it doesnt...........it gives Thomas and Kelly time to develope. It takes the pressure off of them from having to be our top WRs "tomorrow". Signing a WR for 1-2 year deal does not mean we've given up on our 2 draft pix from last year. Get a grip......

They don't have to be our top WRs. What they need to do, at least one of them, needs to step up and be our number 2.

Playing time is the best way for young receivers to develop. We drafted the two of them to develop into starters. We're obviously more than a few pieces away from the Super Bowl. Why not see what they have? I understand the mentoring aspect Holt brings, but I think it'd be better for Thomas to play the number 2 and develop into that role.

I also don't think Holt wants a 2 year deal. Might be what he gets, but he's going to look for a place where he's going to start and not have to worry about guys 10 years younger than him pushing him for a job.

[C26 Run]

We don't need another aging player at a skill position. We drafted Kelly, and Malcolm so we have to at least give them a chance. WR is not a want nor a need for us. Both lines need revamping and a backer would be great. :helmet:

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

Hey if Dallas can take a 9 mil cap hit then why can't we? Dump El and Trash and bring in Holt to mentor the young guys and be our #2 with moss! It wouldn't be the first time we would be paying a guy who isn't on the roster anymore!


I want to agree, but Im not sure how much ARE would count against our cap if we released him. But instead of Holt, I'd rather have Marvin Harrison. Not sure how much he'd cost us. Talkin bout class and professionalism.....

[Whiskeypeet]

I'll say it. When you have questions at QB and OL investing assets (draft picks & cap room) into the WR position is ****ing stupid. It was stupid last year and it remains stupid this year.

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

They don't have to be our top WRs. What they need to do, at least one of them, needs to step up and be our number 2.

Playing time is the best way for young receivers to develop. We drafted the two of them to develop into starters. We're obviously more than a few pieces away from the Super Bowl. Why not see what they have? I understand the mentoring aspect Holt brings, but I think it'd be better for Thomas to play the number 2 and develop into that role.

I also don't think Holt wants a 2 year deal. Might be what he gets, but he's going to look for a place where he's going to start and not have to worry about guys 10 years younger than him pushing him for a job.


That cool, I can dig that.......but if the preseason comes, and Kelly is still having knee problems, and Thomas is looking suspect, we need to look towards adding another WR....

[terpskins10]

That cool, I can dig that.......but if the preseason comes, and Kelly is still having knee problems, and Thomas is looking suspect, we need to look towards adding another WR....

I've basically given up on Kelly already, at least as a future number 1 or 2. He might be a nice situational redzone kind of guy though.

As for Thomas, I've been a big fan for a while, way before the draft. He did play like a bonehead at times last year, but I also think he didn't get much opportunity. I expect a 50 catch, 700 yard, 5 TD season from him if he can find a way to supplant Randle El (shouldn't be too hard if he works at it).

I expect El in the slot next year, with Kelly bringing up the number 4. I do think we need to add another receiver if his knees still bother him, but not necessarily Holt. Someone else with starting experience would be nice.

[redskindan07]

I think he will end up in Carolina playing for the Panthers

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I'd like Holt, but we really need to address other things first. Primarily our offensive line, then a defensive end and linebacker. A kicker would be nice too.

[SkinsAllDay34]

I am pretty sure we have around 12 million in cap space, the reports of 6 million seem bs to me.

ARE wont be a huge hit to us if we release him, last i checked, before the restructure it was around 600k cap hit.

If we cut ARE, sign Holt (basically replacing ARE) as our #2, with the young guns as our 3rd and 4th option, that would be awesome. With the remaining cap space go after a guy like Ray Willis to sure up the RT position.

Then in the draft hope Orakpo falls to us (there is a chance he will), draft Marcus Freeman in the 3rd round.

Rest of the picks on line depth.

thats a good plan IMO :point2sky

CHAMPIONSHIP

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

SkinsAllDay34...I'd love that plan!

[elkabong82]

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Holt.

Jowever, I don't want the Skins to sign either of these guys. We are trying to get younger, and we have 2 young WRs that we need to put into larger roles.

[PROSCOUT]

See.....now everybody wants a WR, I told yall we shouldve went after TJ Housz.....

Except that Holt or T.O. or anybody who is 32 plus, will not cost 40 million dollars. Holt was great and at this point in his career he is 6 months to a year away from just being a GOOD receiver.

Good route runner, good character, good possession receiver. Since we cut Jason Taylor it would be a viable signing. Also, it would give those 2 draft picks from last year 1 more year to develop and a good role model to emulate.

YES IS WHAT I VOTE!

[RenegadeTK]

if we are going to cut/trade ARE, then it makes sense. but adding him to our WR corp as it is doesnt seem to make much sense to me.

[Justsomeguy]

It would be nice to have a good vet to teach Kelly and Thomas but we could bring in a retired receiver for that and it won't count against the cap while Holt or Harrison or (insert big name here) would cost a lot of unecessary cash that could be better spent on depth and needs.

[Justsomeguy]

ARE just needs to be in the slot and then he can be very effective. We need Thomas or Kelly to step up as the Y receiver.

[JimmyConway]

Good route runner, good character, good possession receiver. Since we cut Jason Taylor it would be a viable signing. Also, it would give those 2 draft picks from last year 1 more year to develop and a good role model to emulate.


This is one of the many reasons why bringing in Holt would be a good idea.

Yes we want to get younger and we have many other holes to fill but without many day one draft picks and cap space it's kind've hard fill every need. We could also get Holt at an affordable price with Marvin and TO competing for FA money. JC would surely benefit as well.

[NYskins]

You're right, it doesn't mean problem fixed. However, it does mean you're allocating resources toward the problem in the hopes that they will be able to provide a solution. I'm not saying Thomas or Kelly are the answer at wideout for us. What I am saying is that you have to allow them a shot to show that they are before trying to replace them. It's a known fact that receivers generally don't show up in their first year, and it was a foregone conclusion that Thomas was going to take a couple years to hit his stride. We knew that going in, and we were willing to be patient in order to see some potential results.

Thomas definitely has the ability to be a top-flight receiver in this league. Will he get there? I don't know. What he does need is the opportunity to let it happen.

Teams like the Colts, Steelers, and Chargers didn't get to where they are today by drafting, not getting expected results, and then moving along to the next solution. They allow their young players to grow and give them an incredibly deep, talented, championship-caliber team.

I agree wholeheartedly!

[Peregrine]

Except neither will do us any good. We just drafted 3 pass catchers in the 2nd round. We need something other than WR's.

[BKSkinsFan]

When TO came into the league, he had Jerry Rice by his side. When Randy Moss came in, he had Cris Carter.

Not that these guys picked up on the work ethic and attitude needed, but I do believe being brought up alongside hall of fame caliber wide receivers helped their development.

The argument that bringing in a top flight WR like Holt who has great work ethic, great hands, and runs routes extremely well will hinder Thomas and Kelly's chances doesn't make sense to me.

If these guys are capable, they will get their oppurtunity, regardless of who else is on the team. Being able to watch Holt prepare and practice along side them can only help their careers IMO. Hell it may even benefit Moss and ARE. I'd much rather have our future WRs be put in a position to help the team when they're ready, not because we have no other options.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Gibbs Hog Heaven always makes excellent points, which is why he's a founding member on the Board or Directors! :cheers:

inside joke :cool:

Nods to El Chairman Haterous.

BTW, where is our arch nemesis #21NNT these day's? I miss our little "debates", in some warped, masochistic kinda' way.

Hail.

[DGREENHULK]

It's this kind of mentality that kills this team every year and never allows it to develop into an elite franchise.

Signing Holt throws away two perfectly good draft picks with potential, based on the sole fact that they didn't contribute right away. How many more years of mediocrity do we need to endure until our fans realize that you need to throw your young players into the water, see if they can swim, and let them learn before you try to go out and replace them?

I agree with everything here. Why bring in "nursing home WR's" when we drafted 2 in the 2nd round last year....Lynn Swann isn't doing anything now a days. Can we get him. No harm intended.

[DGREENHULK]

ARE just needs to be in the slot and then he can be very effective. We need Thomas or Kelly to step up as the Y receiver.

:applause: ARE is NOT a strong Y. Move him inside and use him like Wes Welker in NE. Kelly is the prototype for the Y but with his injuries I hope Thomas takes the job.

[SkinsFTW]

Well we haven't signed our required 1-2 big name WR's yet this offseason. I've seen stranger things happen than something like this. Who cares that we've spent 2 #2 picks on the position, a ton of cash on 3 other WR's the past few years. Lets sign Holt! :chair:

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

Well we haven't signed our required 1-2 big name WR's yet this offseason. I've seen stranger things happen than something like this. Who cares that we've spent 2 #2 picks on the position, a ton of cash on 3 other WR's the past few years. Lets sign Holt! :chair:



That's cool, but if the season starts and we have Moss, ARE, and Thrash as the starters, and Kellys knee is giving him problems, Devin Thomas is still not running crisp routes, dont complain....

[zoony]

Great thread PB- wish you hung out in the Stadium more

[SkinsFTW]

That's cool, but if the season starts and we have Moss, ARE, and Thrash as the starters, and Kellys knee is giving him problems, Devin Thomas is still not running crisp routes, dont complain....

I've been complaining for years.

No reason to sign 2-3 receivers every year in an attempt to cover up the fact that our FO has no idea what it's doing. For Instance, Brandon Lloyd is a 5-6Mil cap hit for the Redskins in 2009. Stuff like that. :chair:

[clskinsfan]

Holt is nice....but to call him equal in talent to T.O. is ridiculous. As you can tell by my Signature. I hate the guy and dont want him on our team. But the moron does have talent.

[Rumrunner6900]

Great thread PB- wish you hung out in the Stadium more

It is a great thread....he just wanted to pop in and poke the hornets nest with a stick. :evil:

[str8jacket]

Actually Holt is better than t.o. because he did more with way less talent. He works hard, he's quiet, unselfish, and leads by example. He doesn't drop passes, and runs good routes. T.o. has the numbers, but Holt is better.

[Rdskns2000]

Torry Holt is 32 years old and we don't play on turf so I say no to Holt. He will not come cheap and I think dedicating money to older WR like that will set us back. Let Thomas and Kelly continue to develop and show their real value in their 2 years. Please be patient.


Patient isn't a virtue. Zorn doesn't make the playoffs and Snyder can afford to make the change; then Zorn will be gone. All his players if they haven't contributed will be gone under the next regime. Even if Zorn isn't gone after this year, those guys have to have an impact on the field or they are done as Redskins.

[Runs with Scissors]

He'll be 33 when the season starts,his yards per catch is droppin,YAC is falling the last few years,doesnt catch long TDs anymore..yards per game is down.

If you want a WR on the downside and falling.He's your guy!

[Chazville]

Yeah, I would definitely be OK with Holt. If just for the simple fact that he can teach the young lads how to run an NFL route and teach them the basics of excelling in the NFL.

[dieselfan44]

Mark it down, he goes to Carolina

[nemocystem]

actually holt is better than t.o. Because he did more with way less talent. He works hard, he's quiet, unselfish, and leads by example. He doesn't drop passes, and runs good routes. T.o. Has the numbers, but holt is better.


ding!
Ding!
Ding!

Exactamundo!!!!

[nemocystem]

the problem is that some of you are looking at adding Holt as akin to adding T.O. under the same context when it clearly is not.

adding T.O. is a quick-fix type of situation where you are throwing money & hopes at a volatile player that doesn't exactly add up to his price-tag or baggage. he would expect to start...nay demand it. he would disrupt our chemistry, what little we have at the WR spot. he would not even pretend to teach anybody anything (especially difficult when you've got nothing to teach), let alone aide in their development in any way, shape, or form. and T.O. would most certainly not provide anything of greater value to us than a decoy, which would only go so far until we lose or the media stops talking about him. then he goes back to cancer mode.

Holt is pretty much none of those things. he's a team player who would play the slot if asked to do so in order to help the team. he's not a demanding player in any sense of the word, except he demands attention from opposing defenses...ESPECIALLY IN QUICK ROUTES...which would help against blitz-schemes. he's got perhaps the MOST SURE HANDS in the league...certainly top 3. he arguably is the best route runner in the league. he has incredible work ethic which would only help our young WR's just on presence alone, but i'm sure he'd take a hands-on approach to aide in their progress. he wouldn't demand T.O. money, nor would he require any handing out of draft picks. he most certainly won't stir up controversy with teammates or the F/O. his presence can only AIDE, vs. deter the progress of our young WR's.

i see Holt (unless he does in fact demand a large contract) as an undeniable a) upgrade to our WR corps b) positive impact for our young WR's development c) positive locker-room addition & leader d) somebody who has played in 2 Superbowls & has won 1...he shows up in big games (aka "Big-Game" Torry Holt) & doesn't shy away from the spotlight.

all of that said. yeah...he may not be a stud WR anymore. but he's most certainly an upgrade from what we have & will only help take pressure off of our entire WR corps...let alone Moss.

needless to say, so long as he doesn't draw too high of a contract, i see NO wrong in signing Holt. to say this would be like signing Lloyd or ARE or Thrash is asenine & his background stands directly against that even being an inkling of a valid thought process.

if it doesn't happen...i won't complain.

i am saying...if we're considering T.O. we need to drop that 2 days ago & focus on Holt. he stacks up in every way besides flash & disruption.

[terpskins10]

Mark it down, he goes to Carolina

He wanted to go there to play with his brother, but the Panthers cut him.

He's probably more likely to go to New Orleans than Carolina. Too bad Holt's brother is a garbage safety.

[The Full Monty]

Torry Holt > Randel El.

But he won't come cheap, so I say pass.

[str8jacket]

ding!
Ding!
Ding!

Exactamundo!!!!

I think he would be a great teacher and well worth it to sign him if he is available at a good price. He differs in Santana moss in that Moss can just burn past people. I think Holt would be much better suited at teaching the fine art of running routes, which supercedes talent when it comes to having a long and productive career. I always thought that Randy Moss and T.O. if they gave it all they had would destroy every record Jerry Rice ever had. But they probably won't because Rice is proof that hard work, and dedication outways all of the talent in the world. And i think that Holt, while his numbers are declining could do just that with our young receivers and would be a great mentor as well as a good receiver for our squad. Take into account the injuries to the Rams last year at ol, and qb, and even rb and it all adds up to why his numbers went down. While his numbers certainly wouldnt be what they once were. They could be very good for whoever picks him up. And I think that Torry is a Art Monk type of wr and I admire that. He's one of the few still left in the game.

[DaGhost]

Actually Holt is better than t.o. because he did more with way less talent. He works hard, he's quiet, unselfish, and leads by example. He doesn't drop passes, and runs good routes. T.o. has the numbers, but Holt is better.

don't quite follow your logic here... isn't being more productive the definition of how good you are?:whoknows:

[2cents]

Numbers are not always the whole story. After all, TO has great numbers, but no one wants to keep him. That says it all.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I don't think we need anymore old receivers, we should not worry, the sophomore class will come through strong this year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think we need anymore old receivers, we should not worry, the sophomore class will come through strong this year.

One can only hope. There's no real good reasoning to think they will....Don't get me wrong, I hope they do too...but I wouldn't bank on it.

[[[ghost]]]

I'd take him simply because he could teach our recievers a lot.

The two best recieverwnof our time- TO and Moss- both had great players teaching them in Jerry Rice and Cris Carter.

[sens11]

Holt would be nice but he's going to have a price tag. You know he's trying to get that "one more big pay day."
Plus we we need someone to get him the ball....just sayin.

[santana_4_prez]

It is official...if he's cheap, do it...but I kind of want Jureviscius for a red zone threat.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=412

[Stew]

Id rather have Toomer for less.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I always thought that Randy Moss and T.O. if they gave it all they had would destroy every record Jerry Rice ever had. But they probably won't because Rice is proof that hard work, and dedication outways all of the talent in the world.

Randy Moss lacks the heart and work ethic needed to surpass Rice. His potential has always been off the charts, though, and he certainly possesses all of the physical traits required to compete with the GOAT.

TO, on the other hand, certainly has the work ethic but utterly lacks anything even resembling mental fortitude. His hands are also unusually suspect for a wideout of his calibur. Realistically, TO never had a legitimate chance of measuring up to Rice.

[Stophovr6]

Numbers are not always the whole story. After all, TO has great numbers, but no one wants to keep him. That says it all.

Theres one number that he has over TO.

Superbowl rings:

TO - 0
Holt - 1

[redskindan07]

Let's do it...

[Pit Rott]

Holt is a beast when his QB has time to actually throw a ball to him. Kid was beast in college, and is still beast. I would love to have him. No one works harder at WR in the NFL right now.

[OVCChairman]

Holt has the knowledge of the game that can make anybody who listens to him a better player. I think he might quite expensive to be brought in as a mentor though.

I do also believe he would be a great mentor for the QBs... given Holt's experiences, he really could work with these guys about getting timing routes down, which is what the WCO is built upon.

[Pit Rott]

he still led the rams in receptions, yards, and tds last season and they were horrible.

[OVCChairman]

he still led the rams in receptions, yards, and tds last season and they were horrible.


so.... you're saying it was because he was good... or they were bad.


Kinda hard to make a case for a guy when you follow it explaining how bad his team was.

[RenegadeTK]

he will probably want too much money. bringing in 'veterans' like patten, caldwell and mccardell never really paid off like we hoped. if we keep ARE, i dont think signing holt is in our best interest.... if we keep ARE

[the12thSkin]

do it do it do it

[dg28daman]

he will probably want too much money. bringing in 'veterans' like patten, caldwell and mccardell never really paid off like we hoped. if we keep ARE, i dont think signing holt is in our best interest.... if we keep ARE

Considering what they were, I'd say that Caldwell and McCardell both paid off. We got both of them off the street for cheap and they put in decent years for us.

[jrockster21]

I do like Holt simply for the fact that he's one of the most precise route-runners in the game right now, right behind Harrison. That is the one thing that will help out Campbell immensely - a WR that runs the route exactly.

So I would be all for signing him if we could get him on the cheap...which may be possible. Although I have to question how much he has left in the tank.

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is intriguing. I think that Holt is a hell of a receiver, and him and Moss on the outside would be potentially very explosive. However. They have to figure out what they have in DT and MK. And pouring more money into that position is just silly. They've been striking out on drafting WRs since Monk.

[ThomasTomasz]

This is intriguing. I think that Holt is a hell of a receiver, and him and Moss on the outside would be potentially very explosive. However. They have to figure out what they have in DT and MK. And pouring more money into that position is just silly. They've been striking out on drafting WRs since Monk.

I agree with both points. Holt is one of the best route runners, and even when he loses his speed, he will still be useful because that's not his best asset. So, there would be that bonus that Holt would be a contributor for us for at least three more seasons.

However, drafting Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly in the second last year, and to a lesser extent Fred Davis, really put the Redskins in a difficult situation. They have to let those three prove themselves, but at the same time, the receiver corps just looks average on paper. So, making a move like Holt or even if we went after TJ Houshmanzadeh would've put the team in a tough position- there is little to no way possible to explain big money to a receiver with three young pass-catchers who need to prove themselves.

Cerrato made his bed with those three second-rounders last year. Now, he's got to sleep in it and hope they deliver this season.

[NastyBoy]

This is intriguing. I think that Holt is a hell of a receiver, and him and Moss on the outside would be potentially very explosive. However. They have to figure out what they have in DT and MK. And pouring more money into that position is just silly. They've been striking out on drafting WRs since Monk.


I agree with both points. Holt is one of the best route runners, and even when he loses his speed, he will still be useful because that's not his best asset. So, there would be that bonus that Holt would be a contributor for us for at least three more seasons.

However, drafting Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly in the second last year, and to a lesser extent Fred Davis, really put the Redskins in a difficult situation. They have to let those three prove themselves, but at the same time, the receiver corps just looks average on paper. So, making a move like Holt or even if we went after TJ Houshmanzadeh would've put the team in a tough position- there is little to no way possible to explain big money to a receiver with three young pass-catchers who need to prove themselves.

Cerrato made his bed with those three second-rounders last year. Now, he's got to sleep in it and hope they deliver this season.

Both great posts, and I agree in principal with each of you. That said.......there's nothing but up-side to acquiring Holt if it can be done at a reasonable price. While Moss has been a solid guy.........having the two youngins mentored by Holt is appealing.

I do agree, though, that tying up more money in the position would be problematic considering the plethera of additional needs that money could be dedicated toward.

Cerrato did indeed make this situation FUBAR.

[ThomasTomasz]

Both great posts, and I agree in principal with each of you. That said.......there's nothing but up-side to acquiring Holt if it can be done at a reasonable price. While Moss has been a solid guy.........having the two youngins mentored by Holt is appealing.

I do agree, though, that tying up more money in the position would be problematic considering the plethera of additional needs that money could be dedicated toward.

Cerrato did indeed make this situation FUBAR.

I do agree with there being little issue with Holt if we can get him at a reasonable cost, and still allows us to meet the rest of our needs. There is still going to be the criticism of the team not letting that trio get experience.

It would certainly be difficult to get Holt to sign an incentive-laden deal. But, as I said above, if they can do it and still meet the team needs, I would be in favor. Still, I don't think it's likely.

[NastyBoy]

Still, I don't think it's likely.

Sadly.........I agree.

[BAFGA]

This is intriguing. I think that Holt is a hell of a receiver, and him and Moss on the outside would be potentially very explosive. However. They have to figure out what they have in DT and MK. And pouring more money into that position is just silly. They've been striking out on drafting WRs since Monk.

makes sense to me. IS WR going to be a position of need EVEN with spending 3 draft picks on receivers last year? Is Holt really a guy we desparately need? Win now or develop what you have drafted? Interesting thought...

[PROSCOUT]

Torry Holt is 32 years old and we don't play on turf so I say no to Holt. He will not come cheap and I think dedicating money to older WR like that will set us back. Let Thomas and Kelly continue to develop and show their real value in their 2 years. Please be patient.

Well your reasoning is not in line with the Redskins needs.

If the Skins were rebuilding, then fine, let those 2 young receivers develop. If the Skins had drafted a QB last season or were drafting one this season, fine. Let him develop with those 2 young receivers. NOT THE CASE.

This is a make or break year for Jason Campbell. So we don't need any excuses coming from anybody after this year to say "well, the reason Jason only threw 13 TD passes again is because we don't have good receivers."

No No No. Lets pay the price and get Holt in here if for no other reason, this will determine if the Skins have a franchise QB or a DUD. Holt and Moss would be an excellent combination with A.R.E in the slot or mixing in those other 2 young receivers...and HEY..if one of those 2 young guys turns in a Jerry Rice performance this season, even better, But lets not count on that when you are evaluating whether or not to pay a QB 100 million dollars for the next 7 years.

[HighOnHendrix]

makes sense to me. IS WR going to be a position of need EVEN with spending 3 draft picks on receivers last year? Is Holt really a guy we desparately need? Win now or develop what you have drafted? Interesting thought...

I can't see any more being put into the position, either. I'd like to see more emphasis on the OL. Whether that means drafting a rook or getting a relatively young solid RT from FA, whatever. Holt is a luxury.

[PROSCOUT]

I can't see any more being put into the position, either. I'd like to see more emphasis on the OL. Whether that means drafting a rook or getting a relatively young solid RT from FA, whatever. Holt is a luxury.

Well, I don't know how much you follow the Redskins my friend, but they sure have a lot of 3rd and long situations. 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 7 and even 3rd and 11 after they had a holding penalty or false start.

When you CAN'T move the football, and your QB only throws 13 TD passes, let me tell you, an ALL PRO receiver and TD maker is NOT a luxury, its a necessity. Next season when we're behind Dallas in the opening week, with 3 minutes left on the clock, and facing a 3rd and 8,,, stand up and tell everybody around you that we didn't need Holt because that would be a luxury and see what kind of response you get.

[SKiNz Jus 2 sick]

I think if we get him cheap it would be great! I think he could mentor Thomas and Kelly and help Thomas run better routes. Holt isn't the fastest WR, but he runs great routes. I wouldn't object to this at all

[HighOnHendrix]

Well, I don't know how much you follow the Redskins my friend, but they sure have a lot of 3rd and long situations. 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 7 and even 3rd and 11 after they had a holding penalty or false start.

When you CAN'T move the football, and your QB only throws 13 TD passes, let me tell you, an ALL PRO receiver and TD maker is NOT a luxury, its a necessity. Next season when we're behind Dallas in the opening week, with 3 minutes left on the clock, and facing a 3rd and 8,,, stand up and tell everybody around you that we didn't need Holt because that would be a luxury and see what kind of response you get.

If the line pass protected better, those 3rd and longs would be fewer and farther apart. It all starts with the line. Look at some of the expansion teams we've had in recent memory: the Browns and the Texans. Instead of building their lines, they took the shiny new QBs in Couch and Carr. Their ****ty lines got those guys' brains pummeled out. Same thing happened to Ramsey when he was here. I don't care who you are as a QB or who you are throwing to, if your protection is garbage or even not-so-good, you're in a bad spot.

[PROSCOUT]

If the line pass protected better, those 3rd and longs would be fewer and farther apart. It all starts with the line. Look at some of the expansion teams we've had in recent memory: the Browns and the Texans. Instead of building their lines, they took the shiny new QBs in Couch and Carr. Their ****ty lines got those guys' brains pummeled out. Same thing happened to Ramsey when he was here. I don't care who you are as a QB or who you are throwing to, if your protection is garbage or even not-so-good, you're in a bad spot.

And when David Carr left Houston, suddenly the QB stopped getting sacked. And when he went to another team, he started getting sacked again.

You need to realize that some QB's just hold on to the ball toooooo long and Jason Campbell is one of those. I mean, look, if you give a QB, any QB 5, 6, or 7 seconds in the pocket, then yes he is a better QB. BUT...thats not being realistic.

Not to be mean or a know it all, but you are naive. When you are an NFL QB you get 3 seconds to make a decision and thats it. Sometime you get more and thats great but there were times when JASON went back to throw, had his 3 seconds, and STILL couldn't make a decision or he made the wrong decision. Many times on the radio broadcast I heard Sonny say "Jason had Cooley open in the flat, but he didn't see him" or at least something to that affect. Campbell doesn't see the field in the allotted time. Thats the problem We have plenty of guys, outside of Jon Jansen, who can pass block. What we don't have is a QB who can read the defense and spot open receivers or at least anticipate the opening.

But yes, put me on board your ship if you want to replace Jansen I say stick him in at Guard because he is strong as a bull, he is just slow moving on his feet at this point. I think he could be an all pro guard because he can block anybody if they come straight at him. However, he is the WORST when they run around him. Stick him at guard.

[HighOnHendrix]

And when David Carr left Houston, suddenly the QB stopped getting sacked. And when he went to another team, he started getting sacked again.

You need to realize that some QB's just hold on to the ball toooooo long and Jason Campbell is one of those. I mean, look, if you give a QB, any QB 5, 6, or 7 seconds in the pocket, then yes he is a better QB. BUT...thats not being realistic.



There's also an X-factor of a QB gelling with the line. I'll give you that Carr holds onto the ball too long. That was part of what I was saying was that him and Couch weren't worth first-overall picks, especially when your line is garbage. I don't follow Houston that close, but I know they started drafting OL a little better the last few years and got Eric Winston and Duane Brown as starters from the draft. Coulda been that helped...

[djbubba4life]

And when David Carr left Houston, suddenly the QB stopped getting sacked. And when he went to another team, he started getting sacked again.

You need to realize that some QB's just hold on to the ball toooooo long and Jason Campbell is one of those. I mean, look, if you give a QB, any QB 5, 6, or 7 seconds in the pocket, then yes he is a better QB. BUT...thats not being realistic.

Not to be mean or a know it all, but you are naive. When you are an NFL QB you get 3 seconds to make a decision and thats it. Sometime you get more and thats great but there were times when JASON went back to throw, had his 3 seconds, and STILL couldn't make a decision or he made the wrong decision. Many times on the radio broadcast I heard Sonny say "Jason had Cooley open in the flat, but he didn't see him" or at least something to that affect. Campbell doesn't see the field in the allotted time. Thats the problem We have plenty of guys, outside of Jon Jansen, who can pass block. What we don't have is a QB who can read the defense and spot open receivers or at least anticipate the opening.

But yes, put me on board your ship if you want to replace Jansen I say stick him in at Guard because he is strong as a bull, he is just slow moving on his feet at this point. I think he could be an all pro guard because he can block anybody if they come straight at him. However, he is the WORST when they run around him. Stick him at guard.



You were probably to busy watching the Panthers and Texans to notice that last year, in the first half of the season when there actually was blocking Jason was headed to the Pro Bowl.

[Mahons21]

If the line pass protected better, those 3rd and longs would be fewer and farther apart. It all starts with the line. Look at some of the expansion teams we've had in recent memory: the Browns and the Texans. Instead of building their lines, they took the shiny new QBs in Couch and Carr. Their ****ty lines got those guys' brains pummeled out. Same thing happened to Ramsey when he was here. I don't care who you are as a QB or who you are throwing to, if your protection is garbage or even not-so-good, you're in a bad spot.

-Uhhh did you see Carr when he went to Carolina? Carr is a ****ty qb no matter what line.. he holds on to the ball too long.
-Qb's can affect how a line is perceived, and there is for some reason a false belief among Redskins fans that we don't have an adequate line, maybe not elite but it is most definitely adequate. Jason had as much time as other qb's in the league, he just doesn't know how to play.
-Proof of how a qb can affect how a line is perceived would be; Matt Cassell leading the league in sacks behind the same o-line that Brady played with last season and was only sacked 12 tiems... I guess they just got REALLY bad this offseason