i didn't even know there was an orioles forum!

[AJWatson3]

got a PM that said the thread was being moved to the orioles forum... very nice addition! hopefully we can talk about the battle for third place in the division!

[Die Hard]

Yeah.. they were just created late last night. We'll fix it up some to make it look like Camden Yards before the end of the summer :)

But there's no way around chchanging the avatars to baseball players. Or is there. Hmmm.

[Om]

Boog.

If I have to talk Orioles, I wanna be Boog. :)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

do any of you o's fans think that they can make a wildcard run? they've been hitting snot out of the ball for a month now...there comes a time where it's not a hot streak anymore and is just that they are having a good season..dont you think?

i like their lineup with matos, roberts, and mora as a full-time player.

[Om]

Gonna be tough. I think Hargrove is doing a great job just keeping them around .500, to be honest. I'll be surprised if they finish with more than 80 wins, though.

And even if I'm wrong and they win 90, I don't see them edging out either Boston or NY.

[codeorama]

This is cool...
Two thumbs up!!

[The Invisible Poster]

I'm a Texas Rangers fan, but I love to talk about baseball. Even if it is the Orioles. :silly:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yeah Om, I tend to agree with you. I think if they keep some of these younger and faster players and build around them with a few studs (Tejada and a money OF??) then we could have something there. What do you think?

I agree about Hargrove too...he's doing a damn good job!

[Om]

For the record ... I loathe Peter Angelos for what he's done for the propects of DC Baseball, and would LOVE to see him suffer through 30-win seasons in perpetuity. :cool:

That said ...

I used to like the O's. They helped me survive the absolute heartbreak of losing my Senators when I was 10. I cried like a freaking baby for weeks ... and then, over the next 10 years or so, I slowly let the O's at least apply a bit of salve to the wound, if not a bandage.

Never loved them, but came to appreciate them.

Then The Troll came along.

Ahem.

Back to the future:

As long as the Yankees are outspending everybody AND keeping Joe Torre aboard to keep the ship sailing smoothly on the field and offset George S. off it, I think it's gonna be tough for the O's to count on anything but a wildcard run most years. Plus, the Bosox have turned into a pretty solid organization in the last few years, too, though it would not surprise me to see them come back to the pack in the next couple.

All in all, a tough division to make much headway.

Still, IF The Troll lets Hargrove actually manage some of the youngsters he's got for a few years, and also gives the FO du jour room to rebuild the farm system gutted due to the impatience the team displayed in the late 80's through late 90's ... I think they have a chance to become a steady contender again over the next couple of years.

The manager is there. Some promising young talent is there. The fan base is there. The deep pockets are there. Certainly the history and model for success achieved are there. Seems to me all that's really missing is the patience to build the organization from the bottom up again.

Recent signs are promising, but the specter of The Troll's nefarious machinations hangs over the club like a storm cloud, though.

Ask not for whom the Belle Trolls, it Trolls for thee! Bwa HA!

Sorry.

Bottom line: the O's were the flagship for how you build a long-term winner back in the day ... and then destroyed it all in a few short years of incompetent FO work. To my eyes, they have been their own worst enemy. Still ... if they can stay out of their own way, I think Hargrove and the beginnings of what looks like a nice nucleus of players already on board might just be enough to make annual playoff contention a realistic goal again.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Slightly off topic but kind of relating to what Om is talking about...

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Yankees are definitely on their way down? I'm not talking about this year as much as the big picture. They did a great job about 8 or so years ago when they started building the nucleus they have now in Jeter, Williams, etc. Lately, however, it seems like everything they've done has been making them older. The past 3 or 4 years they've traded away young talent for old veterans (much like the O's did for a few years) and I can see it catching up to them. Now I realize they still have good pitching and Jeter, Posada, Soriano, etc. but once those guys get a little older I could see them taking a major fall and not being playoff certainties each and every year. Am I just wishing too hard??

[codeorama]

In my opinion, the Yanks are getting older, particularly the pitching. They are trying to get younger pitching, but it hasn't worked out the way they want it too. Weaver has not delivered like they thought and Contraras (sp?) is still a newby. Clemens will be gone, Pettit is getting old, Wells is way old and fat, the pitching that was a strength is becoming a weakness... in the forseeable future at least.

[Die Hard]

The Yanks also have Giambi too go with a core of Jeter, Posada and Soriano.

But there's still Matsui and Carraras is signed for 4 years.

Bernie Williams has another 4 years. So does Mariano Rivera. So does Pettite.

They'll acquire a 3rd baseman when Ventura retires and they always rotate at least 1 OF spot.

Clemens retiring is going to hurt. Wells has 1 more year left in him.. but I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded at the deadline this year.

And Weaver probably has 2 more years to show his stuff.

They might not be the powerful Yankees as they once were... but they'll be contenders for a long time.

[codeorama]

Totally agree that they will still be contenders. They have a top notch minor league system and scouting, thus they will always have talent to trade for proven vets. If the Orioles could copy anything from the Yanks, I would want it to be the Minors and scouting depts... Yanks know how to do it right in those regards.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I guess that was my big question...how is their minor league system?

I know it was great a few years back but I also know that everytime they trade for a vet, they are unloading some young talent....it's what got the O's in their current mess.

So, does anyone know how the Yanks' minor league system stacks up currently?

[codeorama]

Speedwagon, hope this helps...

Yankees organization report
By Tim Ott / MLB.com

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20030312&content_id=218566&vkey=spt2003news&fext=.jsp


The future success of every Major League team lies in its minor league system. With that in mind, MLB.com takes a top-to-bottom look at all 30 organizations, from top prospects to recent draft picks.
For all the hooting and hollering about how the Yankees simply buy their way into the playoffs every year, people seem to forget that the core of their recent mini-dynasty consisted largely of homegrown players. Indeed, stars like Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams and Andy Pettitte were all products of an abundantly talented farm system that ranked among the best of the previous decade.

Unfortunately, two long years without a World Series title has prompted the Yankees to trade some of their top prospects for proven Major Leaguers who can help the club win right away. Indeed, the acquisitions of Jason Giambi and Steve Karsay following the 2001 season cost the Yankees their first and second round draft picks in 2002, and their Triple-A affiliate was so depleted that the club struggled to a 59-83 record.

That's not to say that their minor league system is on life support; indeed, with a combined .530 winning percentage out of their six affiliates, the organization is doing just fine. It's just not the powerhouse that it was a few years ago.

Organizational record: 365-324, .530



Five prospects whose names you should know:

Danny Borrell, LHP
Although there's hardly any room in the Yankees rotation right now, the good news for this young lefty is that a couple of the pinstriped pitchers are inching towards retirement. The winner of the Eastern League ERA title, Borrell doesn't throw particularly hard but can reach back for some extra juice when he needs to. Furthermore, he possesses good command of his solid curveball and change. Borrell will probably be at Triple-A Columbus for the entire season.

Julio DePaula, RHP
Shades of Mariano? Despite a slender frame, DePaula is capable of generating a lively 95 mph heater. He starts for now, but there's already been some talk of converting this confident young man into a reliever. If he does begin coming out of the bullpen, he has a better chance than Borrell of nosing his way into a Major League game at some point this season. Otherwise, he'll be working on his slider and changeup for the Columbus Clippers.



Drew Henson, 3B
Henson is one of the more well-known prospects in all of baseball, and his struggles at the top levels of the minors have led some to believe that this former quarterback should have stuck with football. It's a little unfair to Henson, who's had to adjust to full-time baseball as well as a harsher spotlight than most young players. He still has the potential to become a fine power hitter, and his cannon arm is perfect for the hot corner. With Robin Ventura holding down the fort for at least another season, Henson will return to Columbus in 2003.

Chien-Ming Wang, RHP
A product of Taiwan, Wang is developing what could turn out to be a deadly arsenal of pitches. His fastball has reach 95 mph, and he also throws a slider, splitter and change. A shoulder injury that knocked him out of action in 2001 is a cause for concern, but Wang rebounded with a terrific 6-1, 1.72 season in the short New York-Penn League. There's a good chance that he'll begin 2003 with High-A Tampa.

Bronson Sardinha, OF
Although he was drafted as a shortstop, the Yankees are trying to make an outfielder out of Sardinha. He's a good enough athlete and possesses a strong arm, so the Hawaiian native is capable of manning all three spots. At the plate, Sardinha has quick hands and has displayed surprising power. Chances are he'll be making the leap to High-A Tampa for the upcoming season.

Others to watch: Brandon Claussen, LHP; Marcus Thames, OF; Robinson Cano, 2B/SS; Rudy Guillen, OF; Sean Henn, LHP; Joaquin Arias, SS; Ferdin Tejada, INF; Jose Valdez, RHP; Anderson Garcia, RHP; Charlie Manning, LHP

Cinderella Story

Originally selected in the 34th round of the 1998 draft, Brandon Claussen was signed as a draft-and-follow the subsequent year. Since then, he has progressed from a mediocre talent to one of the top pitching prospects in the Yankee system. A tough, competitive athlete, Claussen has developed a killer slider and made his changeup into an effective weapon. His arsenal has become so formidable, he led the minors with 220 strikeouts in 2001.

Claussen's fast track to the Majors took a serious hit when the young southpaw was forced to undergo Tommy John surgery in the summer of 2002. However, with his persistence and fiery mentality, nobody doubts that Claussen will be able to work his way back to the top again.

What's in a Name?

First baseman Blake Blase struggled in his first season with the Staten Island team, batting only .159 in 21 games. Fortunately, he was more successful in his second job with the British Secret Service. Using his standard pickup line -- "The name is Blase... Blake Blase" -- he was able to score more dates than all of his teammates combined.

2002 draft recap

1. Brandon Weeden, RHP
2-1, 2.86 ERA, 34.2 IP, 29 H, 16 BB, 30 K
Although the Yankees surrendered their top two picks in the draft, they were still able to grab Weeden in the second round as compensation for the loss of Tino Martinez. Weeden recorded a fine rookie season, flashing a fastball that got into the low 90s and some decent off-speed stuff. A big kid, he's expected to add some oomph to his heater as his body continues to develop. He'll begin 2003 with either Staten Island or Greensboro.

2. Alan Bomer, RHP
2 G, 4.05 ERA, 6.2 IP
A fourth rounder from the University of Texas, Bomer throws a sinking fastball in the low 90s and complements it with a slider and change. A long college season led the Yankees to shut the right-hander down early, but he'll be ready to go with the Staten Island club again in 2003.

3. Matt Carson, OF
.203 AVG/.264 OBP/.311 SLG
After hitting .343 as a junior at BYU, Carson had a rough transition to professional baseball. In his attempt to pull his batting average out of the pits, Carson began to press and seemed to lose track of the strike zone. He still projects to be an above-average defensive outfielder, so the Yanks will return him to the New York-Penn League and hope he bounces back at the plate.

4. Brandon Harmsen, RHP
4-5, 3.59 ERA, 57.2 IP, 51 H, 17 BB, 46 K
Harmsen had one of the better seasons out of the Yankees' first year hurlers, using his low 90s heater to record a solid ERA and K/IP ratio. His command needs a little work, but he's earned his chance to jump to the Staten Island club in the New York-Penn League.

5. Ross Michelsen, 1B
.256 AVG/.343 OBP/.300 SLG
After getting off to a torrid start (8-15) with the Gulf Coast team, Michelson finished off 15-75 with no home runs. While it wasn't quite the season the Yankees expected out of the Lamar (TX) High School product, they're confident that his large frame will eventually begin to produce some significant power. He should get a chance to compete for a spot with the Staten Island team in 2003.

Best of the rest:

Joshua Neitz, a right-hander taken in the 25th round, finished second in the New York-Penn League with 30 appearances and posted a 2.87 ERA... 29th rounder Charlie Isaacson (RHP) finished 10th in the New York-Penn League with 2.54 ERA, and also struck out 76 batters in 74.1 IP... 44th-round selection Mathew Brumit led the New York-Penn League with his 33 appearances and 22 saves, while posting an excellent 2.21 ERA.

Looking ahead: Needs for the 2003 draft

The Yankees have to be judged differently from other teams because their extensive scouting and limitless resources allows them to sign the very best international players on the market. Not only does that luxury allow them to rely less on the amateur draft when it comes to stocking their farm system with talent, it affords them the opportunity to bring their signed prospects along more slowly.

That being said, the Bombers are likely to use the draft to bolster what has become a rather thin collection of hitters. Their pitching is fine for the most part, but if early returns are any indication, then their 2002 draft class turned out to be a poor one. The Yankees may have to scrap any particular focus for the draft ahead and simply nab the best guys they can find to make up for last year.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Thanks. Hope you didn't have to search too long for that!