There ain't much talk of re-building the trenches these days...

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Not too long ago is all started with the trenches. Build from the lines outwards. Trade back, draft the lines all the way.

Lets get a FA OLineman. Elton Brown, Ray Willis..Get someone fast, anyone, thats how bad it is.

What about the Dline, let re-sign Wynn, Get Daniels back, Get someone fast for LDE, anyone, thats how bad it is.

Oh, and what about OLB, Fincher anyone ? Gotta draft one fast, thats how bad it is.

Then, Jay Culter rumours appear and the water gets very muddy. Give them JC & two first rounders, just like that.

But what of the cherished #13 pick. You know, the one to trade back with for OT / DE / OLB. Those positions we have to have, don't we ?

Don't get me wrong. Cutler as a Redskin sounds great to me. I have not given up on Jason but I would swap him for Cutler, no problem, no hesitation.

But at what cost. We still have other serious needs don't we ? Are they solved by writing off the 2009 draft plus the first rounder next year ( potentially ).

The hysteria around Culter seems to have made all of our other issues vanish.

Well, say we got him at the cost it will take. How do we sort everything else out ?

:)

[iwasdoinit]

Exactly right, enough with the Cutler talk already. The Daniels injury was costly, since Taylor cost two draft choices in return for 8 million dollars worth of nothing. With the other picks we need to acquire linemen to protect whoever it will be, most likely Campbell.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

We actually have adressed both lines. Maybe you forgot about them because of their small contracts, but Derrick Dockery and Albert Haynesworth are now members of the Washington Redskins. We also have young talent on the O-line. That being said, we do need to add another member to the O-line as well as a DE.

[teflon don]

Invite Kwame Harris for a visit. He could probably start at RT. We do need something.

[modazfuk]

Just like LL pointed out recently, the Dallas offensive line looked horrible when Johnson was playing, then suddenly looked good again upon Romo's return.

Why is that?

I think people know the answer deep down inside.

If the Skins lack of offensive production can be fixed with changing just one player (Cutler), Snyder would be foolish to not at least try to make it happen.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

We actually have adressed both lines. Maybe you forgot about them because of their small contracts, but Derrick Dockery and Albert Haynesworth are now members of the Washington Redskins. We also have young talent on the O-line. That being said, we do need to add another member to the O-line as well as a DE.


I haven't forgotten anything.

Dockery was an unexpected ( good ) pick-up. I'd hoped Rinehart was our future LG. Apparently not.

Haynesworth. Fantastic pick-up.

My point is, we need RT, LDE or LB. This has been discussed to death for weeks.

The number #13 pick has all the answers. It doesn't if it becomes Jay Cutler, whom I'll add again I'd love as a Redskin.

[RWJ]

I'm all for drafting OL. We get Cutler we will still probably have our 3rd, 5th and 6th. Go OT in the 3rd, DE with the 5th and LB in the 6th. Will can readdress the positions in next year's draft.:)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Get the franchise QB, who many, my self included, believe Cutler has all the intangibles and is well on the way to being, and everything else takes care of it's self over time.

As regards the O-Line, I firmly believe Cutler would instantly make them look a whole bunch better by not making them hold their blocks an age like Jason continues to do.

Same with the current receiving core. His Marino-Esq release, and ability to see the WHOLE field, not just locking in on his primary or secondary receiver, would make the double coverage excuses on Moss and Cooley, or poor receiving group excuses look exactly what they are, tawdry.

Yes, we'd doubtless have to sacrifice high picks, and ride what we have a little longer in certain positions.

Do we need to upgrade the line and receiving options? No question.

But when you get the chance of signing the single most important position on any football team, and solidify the position for the next 10 years or more, then, even when that comes at the expense of other needs, you grab it hands down.

Franchise/Elite QB> A N Other Position. NO CONTEST!

Hail.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

But when you get the chance of signing the single most important position on any football team, and solidify the position for the next 10 years or more, then, even when that comes at the expense of other needs, you grab it hands down.

So all this crap about firstly building through the trenches is rubbish then ?

We have neglected them for years, you know...

:)

[velocet]

How do we sort everything else out ?


There is no sorting, just patchwork plug-n-play. Just picture a couple of Burberry wearing, petrol huffing chavs and you have all you need to understand the FO.




velocet

[RWJ]

I wish we knew if and what Snyder has discussed with the Broncos today concerning Cutler.

[Omega4ce]

My point is, we need RT, LDE or LB. This has been discussed to death for weeks.

The number #13 pick has all the answers. It doesn't if it becomes Jay Cutler, whom I'll add again I'd love as a Redskin.

How does it have all the answers? Is there a first-round-worthy rookie who plays all three positions? Do you have magical insight that the player we will select will even start? Produce? Become a starter? A star?

The chances he could be a bust are just as big. This isnt Madden Football against the CPU, where you plug in rookies and some magical progression makes them better.

EDIT: I'm not superstitious, but the #13 pick???!!!??? :D

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So all this crap about firstly building through the trenches is rubbish then ?

We have neglected them for years, you know...

:)

What would you seriously rather have?

An average to good at best pro QB, who plays not to lose games rather than win them, and has shown he doesn't have the ability to do anything other than that on a consistent basis, playing behind an improved line?

Or a franchise caliber QB that DOES go out to try win games with his play, and would bring much needed attacking excitement to the position in DC, and score a lot of those point thingies that matter so much in this game, even if it came at the expense of an O-Line overhaul for another year?

Being as you probably won't be able to do both, which would YOU rather have first?

I think I clearly nailed my thoughts to Cutler mast above and reasons why.

Hail.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

I wish we knew if and what Snyder has discussed with the Broncos today concerning Cutler.

Me too.

I would like Matt Cassell (sp) to annouce he will refuse to play for the Chiefs. Him to the Broncos is the only thing that keeps the price down, IMO.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

What would you seriously rather have?

An average to good at best pro QB, who plays not to lose games rather than win them, and has shown he doesn't have the ability to do anything other than that on a consistent basis, playing behind an improved line?

Or a franchise caliber QB that DOES go out to try win games with his play, and would bring much needed attacking excitement to the position in DC, and score a lot of those point thingies that matter so much in this game, even if it came at the expense of an O-Line overhaul for another year?

Being as you probably won't be able to do both, which would YOU rather have first?

I think I clearly nailed my thoughts to Cutler mast above and reasons why.

Hail.

I've said earlier, I like Cutler. But I'm not just on about the QB position.

The danger is he'll look the same as any other QB wiping dirt off his ass when he's been sacked again by Demarcus Ware.

I'm just curious to know how people would get around our other problems if we went all in on Culter.

I've noted in other threads you don't mind the idea of Heyer at RT for example ( hope I'm correct there ). In that instance, maybe we will get by.

If your view is worry about the rest in 2010, thats fair enough. Perhaps we'll rack up the points, Culter would throw for 4500 yards & we'd still finish 8-8. Who knows.

:)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Maybe we would finish around the same as we have for nigh on two decades next year with Cutler, who knows mate?

But the positives of grabbing a franchise caliber QB FAR outweigh the negatives, whatever short term expense that comes at.

And when all said and done, even if we stand pat; shy of moving around with our picks, the chances are we'll only get one player with the ability to step in and start from day one with that #13.

Being as the main needs are a combination of O-Line, D end and LB, were hardly gona' upgrade to that significant an extent if we keep the pick.

A franchise QB trumps EVERYTHING else when it presents it's self, which is VERY rarely.

Hail.

[Omega4ce]

I've said earlier, I like Cutler. But I'm not just on about the QB position.

The danger is he'll look the same as any other QB wiping dirt off his ass when he's been sacked again by Demarcus Ware.

I'm just curious to know how people would get around our other problems if we went all in on Culter.

I've noted in other threads you don't mind the idea of Heyer at RT for example ( hope I'm correct there ). In that instance, maybe we will get by.

If your view is worry about the rest in 2010, thats fair enough. Perhaps we'll rack up the points, Culter would through for 4500 yards & we'd still finish 8-8. Who knows.

:)

We could be 0-16, we could be 16-0, and in between anything is possible too.
Our rookies could turn out to be stars, they could be busts, and anything in between is possible too.

But the one thing that many people on this board, and the majority of people in and around the league agree on, is that Cutler is a better quarterback then Jason Campbell.

People say our line is crappy. I would still like to have the better quarterback behind our crappy line.

[turbodiesel#44]

Not too long ago is all started with the trenches. Build from the lines outwards. Trade back, draft the lines all the way.



Let's hope the team still thinks that way. With or without a tradeback.

You have to understand a lot of members here get most of their knowledge of the game from Madden and their fantasy leagues. OL doesn't count much there. You want the guys aiming your cannons to be spot on, but the guys who lug the cannonballs to the fort are just as crucial to victory.

[illone]

Many fans believe Cutler can improvise given the Skins current oline.

Your point still stands, though.

Two first rounders is way too much for the Skins to be giving up right now. I'd rather have a solid oline than Jay Cutler.

:2cents:

[HighOnHendrix]

Our #13 pick needs to be either OT or LB (to a lesser extent DL). We can address depth in the later rounds. Trading for any QBs not named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady is ridiculous.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

How does it have all the answers? Is there a first-round-worthy rookie who plays all three positions? Do you have magical insight that the player we will select will even start? Produce? Become a starter? A star?

The #13 pick does hold all of the answers. Go read through the many draft related threads of the last 3 months :)


behind our crappy line.

A Franchise QB behind a crappy OL may not always win :)

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Many fans believe Cutler can improvise given the Skins current oline.

Your point still stands, though.

Two first rounders is way too much for the Skins to be giving up right now. I'd rather have a solid oline than Jay Cutler.

:2cents:

I agree. That is my point.

Cutler, at the right price, Yes.

Two first rounders, especially a #13 this year. Not sure.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You have to understand a lot of members here get most of their knowledge of the game from Madden and their fantasy leagues.

That's one of the most arrogant sweeping comments I've read all week in the on-going QB debate.

Points win football games.

Always have, always will, and 14-17 points just doesn't get it done in today's NFL.

No one argues that the offensive line needs upgrading, but I'd wager my mortgage that you'd get not only better line play, but better production from the offense as stands with a QB like Cutler under center, and all he brings to the table; than a QB like Campbell, who you could put behind the best combined O-Line in history, and everything to date points to the fact we'd be no better off as an attacking force as, by the very nature of his play, he plays to not lose football games, rather than win them.

Hail.

[JTNumber7]

We actually have adressed both lines. Maybe you forgot about them because of their small contracts, but Derrick Dockery and Albert Haynesworth are now members of the Washington Redskins. We also have young talent on the O-line. That being said, we do need to add another member to the O-line as well as a DE.

[Omega4ce]

The #13 pick does hold all of the answers. Go read through the many draft related threads of the last 3 months :)



A Franchise QB behind a crappy OL may not always win :)

I have read through many threads and all i see is that we hope, that some youngsters who havent played a ****ing down in the NFL yet, are going to come in and cure aaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll the problems that some guys who at least have played/started in this league couldnt solve.

My point is that if i can improve one area today, then i do it. Honestly, except players who would create more cap trouble because of the cap hits we would take, i would trade anybody's ass to get a potential franchise quarterback this team hasnt seen in decades.

[JTNumber7]

Two players doesn't constitute addressing the lines. Dockery is a guard and definitely an upgrade over Kendall, but Randy Thomas struggled last year, especially down the stretch. We have no depth behind him. By all accounts, Rinehart "isn't ready yet," and Heyer still is not a professional RT, much less a LT. If we don't draft OL and DL almost exclusively, I will be pretty confused (oh, right, Vinny believes in "best available player; so do we draft a couple more WR's and turn into Detroit East?).

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

I have read through many threads and all i see is that we hope, that some youngsters who havent played a ****ing down in the NFL yet, are going to come in and cure aaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll the problems that some guys who at least have played/started in this league couldnt solve.

It that was always the case, Detroit would send them the #1 pick for Cutler and the story would be over.

Maybe they will :rolleyes:

[Omega4ce]

It that was always the case, Detroit would send them the #1 pick for Cutler and the story would be over.

Maybe they will :rolleyes:

We talk about Detroit. Their franchise is even worse then ours. They wouldnt even hit the water if they would fall out of the boat :D

I guess we have to agree to disagree, so instead let concentrate on something we all agree...

:dallasuck:eaglesuck:gaintsuck

[Snagletooth]

Franchise QB obviously trumps every other position. They are rare. Quality RT's are not so difficult to find.

[turbodiesel#44]

with a QB like Cutler under center, and all he brings to the table; than a QB like Campbell, who you could put behind the best combined O-Line in history, and everything to date points to the fact we'd be no better off as an attacking force as, by the very nature of his play, he plays to not lose football games, rather than win them.

Hail.But Cutler wouldn't be at the table. He'd be on his ass just like any other QB behind that old line of ours. Getting Cutler would involve 2 1st rounders and probably a player. IMO, they don't want JC. Too expensive, and too prohibitive of building our line back for years. Dock should be solid, but we need 4 guys ready to start behind the vets on a moments notice. Something gives out earlier every year on these guys.

And we don't have a single WR who can get any separation anyway. Really, a 2 TE set with Cooley spread is not the answer.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

But Cutler wouldn't be at the table. He'd be on his ass just like any other QB behind that old line of ours. Getting Cutler would involve 2 1st rounders and probably a player. IMO, they don't want JC. Too expensive, and too prohibitive of building our line back for years. Dock should be solid, but we need 4 guys ready to start behind the vets on a moments notice. Something gives out earlier every year on these guys.

And we don't have a single WR who can get any separation anyway. Really, a 2 TE set with Cooley spread is not the answer.

Hey, that's fair enough man.

I would argue those valid points with what, IMHO, Cutler would add to alleviate both those problems to a large degree, but like many threads this week, we'd just be going round in circles.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on a QB like Cutler, while agreeing regardless of that the line definitely needs addressing. :cheers:

I guess the only way we'd know for sure would be in actually seeing Cutler behind that line in this offense.

Time will tell what happen's on that score.....

Hail.

[turbodiesel#44]

Time will tell what happen's on that score.....

Hail.I do agree Cutler would be an upgrade. It's just the cost, and in the face of significant other problems, that upgrade would not be sufficient to affect our outcome as greatly as using our resources in the trenches. That has to be done asap anyway, our guys are simply too old. And fixing the OL should have a positive effect on JC's game too. In any case, I really think we should make a final decision on JC by mid-season. Maybe we throw C"MF"B in there and see what's in the pantry. Or Collins could finish the season up for us if JC does not clearly step into the franchise role. We should have a first rounder next year to blow on another QB if needed. We have to stop giving away future picks. It's killing us right now.

But none of this makes our OL any sturdier or younger. And our OL will likely factor into the draw our team will have towards a vet QB, if we go that route. One thing I can guarantee, our OL is not going to get any better with these same guys. They are all on the downhill. I doubt Jansen would start for any other team. And the other guys are worn down by game 7.

[PrimetimeSkins26]

Trading for Cutler would be a bad idea. We'd probably be worse than last year becuase we'd have to give up way to much. I really question Cutlers leadership ability becuase you need a leader at quarterback to win a Super Bowl. I just feel we'd be the Washington Wizards of the NFL even if Cutler was on our team and be stuck in mediocrity. To even get to that point though we'd have to fix our offensive line or else Cutler would be on his *** all day.

Smart post by the OP. We need to fix our trenches if we ever want to compete. This isn't the NFC West. This is the toughest division in football, the NFC East.

[Vicious]

can't win the superbowl with crappy lines

[Justsomeguy]

But what of the cherished #13 pick. You know, the one to trade back with for OT / DE / OLB. Those positions we have to have, don't we ?

Well, say we got him at the cost it will take. How do we sort everything else out ?

:)
I think you are exactly right though I prefer to keep 13 and take a top-tier player instead. Not the fix everything now or just draft a bunch of depth that likely won't amount to much.

I don't think Cutler has proven enough to totally get behind him. I have always thought Cutler was very talented but he isn't worth the risk at this point. Aside from that they want a very steep price for the QB with the hurt feelings.....

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Smart post by the OP. We need to fix our trenches if we ever want to compete. This isn't the NFC West. This is the toughest division in football, the NFC East.

Thanks,

Jansen & Heyer for RT
Rinehart primary back-up at G ?
back-up centre ? / and Rabach is hardly loved on here,

Lets hope Samuels doesn't miss a snap.

Same for Haynesworth;

We give Haynesworth $32m in 13 months to collapse the pocket for Wynn, maybe Daniels, Jackson or Wilson to fly around the edges to sack the QB ?

Yikes, There still some things to fix there.

Cutler yes, at all costs plus writing the 2009 draft off, no.

Maybe we'd make a favourable trade which left us some room for manoeuvre is this years draft as well. That would be nice.

[ciresolstice]

I'm all for drafting OL. We get Cutler we will still probably have our 3rd, 5th and 6th. Go OT in the 3rd, DE with the 5th and LB in the 6th. Will can readdress the positions in next year's draft.:)

That scenario would be fine with me.

[alwaysaskin]

There are those of us who think that the Cutler stuff is BS anyway. My ideal situation woul be
1. Oher
3. Eric Wood
5. Andy Kemp

then sign some depth. I don't think heyer is ready for prime time. Rabach is the human drive killer because he gets beat off the line and then gets the laundry for holding. Jansen is D-O-N-E and Thomas struggled down the stretch. Samuels is all pro but he better not miss a sap or else we get turd Geisinger. I agree with UK Skins fan: Cutler will look the same as any other QB wiping the dirt off his ass while three fifths of the line plays on roller skates.

[36HAMMER]

i still want the skins to trade the 13th pick and get a lower 1st and a second. the second rounder may have to be moved up, but if we can pick duke robinson of oklahoma and alex mack of california our oline would be so much stronger. thomas with his injuries and being a light and smallish guard as well as an older guard is going against him.then maybe tradfor an tackle or lb to fill the void. angelo crowell was had cheaply by the bucs but the skins didn't seem to want him.we can only hope to fix one line fully this year. and getting mack and robinson would go along way in doing that.mack would give a center the likes of which ( with all regards to bostic)that we have never had.dockery,mack,robinson would give us alot of interior power. something we have lacked more and more as time goes on.getting 2 quality olineman with the potenial of being perinial probowlers instead of staying put and getting just one.if you doubt the logic, check the history of the burgundy and gold my bro's. three different qb,s,3diferent rb's, and an oline that for the most point stayed toether for 10 year. i know i'm preachin to the chior, but i'm frustrated with the choices of this team. getting these two guys would put this team in a very good position.and if reinhart somehow gets it together and becomes a rt then we set.samuels,dockery,mack,robinson,jansen(heyer,rei nhart)first downs would be something we will get much more often.and touchdowns from the 2yrd line will not end in frustration as much anymore.possibly trade thomas or maybe one more year.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

They got younger at two spots in Haynesworth and Dockery. Heyer is still a question mark but played well early in the year, pre-injury. Monty and Golston are young DT's. Carter has a few left in him. Rinehart is a question mark but could be the answer at one of the OL spots in the future. Contrary to your beliefs, I think that the FO and coaches are definitely addressing the trenches and may very well address them in the draft as well. No doubt, the Cutler talk has bored me...over it, but I'm actually pleasantly surprised that they made two big trench moves in FA. That's a great start IMO.
(BTW the LB position isn't considered a "trench" spot, so why the mention of Fincher etc?) wink-wink-nudge-nudge ;)

[SirClintonPortis]

Need to grab a big stud center for depth and the future. There are plenty of teams using the 3-4, and it's best to be prepared should Rabach totally stink it up.

[SirClintonPortis]

Double post....I'm never hitting try again when 'the network link is interrupted' ever again.

[Shilsu]

In terms of the lines, we still need:

Starting RT - Heyer is a great backup, Jansen is not a starter.
Backup G - Randy Thomas cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.
Starting/Backup C - Either an immediate upgrade or next year's replacement.

Starting DE - Wynn?
Backup DE - Umm, who are we left with if Wynn gets injured?
Starting/Backup DT - Griffin cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

[MrJL]

There are those of us who think that the Cutler stuff is BS anyway. My ideal situation woul be
1. Oher
3. Eric Wood
5. Andy Kemp

then sign some depth. I don't think heyer is ready for prime time. Rabach is the human drive killer because he gets beat off the line and then gets the laundry for holding. Jansen is D-O-N-E and Thomas struggled down the stretch. Samuels is all pro but he better not miss a sap or else we get turd Geisinger. I agree with UK Skins fan: Cutler will look the same as any other QB wiping the dirt off his ass while three fifths of the line plays on roller skates.

one, stop calling Redskins players turds.

two, it's more likely that Heyer would move to LT before Geisinger would come in.

Didn't I see someone suggest we draft Alex Mack? He's a center, but I swear I remember reading something about a center who could play all five positions(the next Bruce Matthews) Is this him?

And what if we drafted a center, cut Rabach and used his salary to sign a RT?

[MrJL]

In terms of the lines, we still need:

Starting RT - Heyer is a great backup, Jansen is not a starter.
Backup G - Randy Thomas cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.
Starting/Backup C - Either an immediate upgrade or next year's replacement.

Starting DE - Wynn?
Backup DE - Umm, who are we left with if Wynn gets injured?
Starting/Backup DT - Griffin cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

Have we actually seen Geisinger play center? He might do fine

[corrupt3d]

In terms of the lines, we still need:

Starting RT - Heyer is a great backup, Jansen is not a starter.
Backup G - Randy Thomas cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.
Starting/Backup C - Either an immediate upgrade or next year's replacement.

Starting DE - Wynn?
Backup DE - Umm, who are we left with if Wynn gets injured?
Starting/Backup DT - Griffin cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.


Don't forget SLB and LB depth in general, though I like Khary Campbell and The Bladester, we still need a solid third.

And a fourth CB, has anyone realized we're walking into the season right now with Tryon as our 4?

[McD5]

Great thread. Some of our best newer members are from England it seems.

The lines are a nightmare. You can run, but you can't hide.

We might have too many resources tied up in other areas of the team.


This kind of puts the light on about how much of a luxury pick Davis was last season. Totally unnecessary. We simply don't need Cooley, Davis and Yoder.

So take one of them....my preference of course is keeping Cooley, and maybe package them with someone else to get a lineman.


We are stocked in our safety position as well.

Horton and Landry....Kareem Moore and now Doughty.

Sorry, that is just too much considering what we need at other positions.


Take one of them....and it might have to be a fan-favorite, and package them with Fred Davis.

I haven't even seen it considered or discussed on here before, and granted, it would be a little unconventional...

But could we get a real solid lineman, for a combo of Fred Davis and a Landry? Fred Davis and Horton?


Another idea......approach teams with an excess of linemen, and see what they want.

I know some were against Calais Campbell. But for at least a season or two......I could see serious merit in trading a Davis for a Calais Campbell type. Then let Haynesworth lift his game up.

Certainly that would be an improvement to what we have now. And it would at least get us through the season, while not wasting Al's work.

Then....add that to Cutler.....and we are playing ball.

Thoughts?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Then....add that to Cutler.....and we are playing ball.

Thoughts?

Add Cutler period and we become LEGIT again. :D

As for the lines, interesting idea packaging to take us through the short term, although I personally would prefer to hang onto Davis, but if it helps out in a greater area of need, it certainly has it's merits.

As regards the O-line, as we stand, I'd be happy going into next year with a line of Samuels, Dock, a hopefully drafted center, (Rabach's pitifully undersized), Randy and Heyer. (This is presuming the 13 pick goes on Cutler. If not, then hopefully we get lucky either there, or by trading down, and still pick up a big ass tackle.). In the Cutler scenario, I could live with Heyer getting another year's full on playing experience under his belt, and hopefully improving his run blocking skills along the way. Were stuck with JJ for another year due to his cap #, and with Chad entering his second year and hopefully ready to be pushing, there's not too much to fill in terms of depth.

I'm still basing this in the main on the hope of snagging Cutler. Obviously that's gona' leave us light in a few areas for a year or so, but hey, with some creative manoeuvring like McD5's thrown up, that might not have to be as light as first feared.

Hail.

[kubstix]

Thoughts?

Meh....I just don't think we can really afford to ship any starter on Defense really. We added Haynesworth, Wynn, Daniels, Dhall. We upgraded here....if it aint broke don't fix it. Fred Davis is pretty athletic and can potentially be dangerous. I'de like to see the Redskins have 2 solid TE's both coming out on Red Zone/2nd/3rd downs. We cannot afford to get rid of anything on Offense either. Cutler would seal alot of flaws in the Oline and receiver position IMO. I believe our Oline would look much more solid with a 3 second drop back and the ball already coming out. We could really get Cutler, resign Marcus for 1 year....draft LB,OL,DE,LB. We could potentially sit on our roster until next year's draft and address OL,DL,LB,ect next year. By adding Cutler and the players we did this offseason, alot of positions are locked up for years to come. If we can compete with the trade offers, DO IT.

[McD5]

Add Cutler period and we become LEGIT again. :D

As for the lines, interesting idea packaging to take us through the short term, although I personally would prefer to hang onto Davis, but if it helps out in a greater area of need, it certainly has it's merits.

As regards the O-line, as we stand, I'd be happy going into next year with a line of Samuels, Dock, a hopefully drafted center, (Rabach's pitifully undersized), Randy and Heyer. (This is presuming the 13 pick goes on Cutler. If not, then hopefully we get lucky either there, or by trading down, and still pick up a big ass tackle.). In the Cutler scenario, I could live with Heyer getting another year's full on playing experience under his belt, and hopefully improving his run blocking skills along the way. Were stuck with JJ for another year due to his cap #, and with Chad entering his second year and hopefully ready to be pushing, there's not too much to fill in terms of depth.

I'm still basing this in the main on the hope of snagging Cutler. Obviously that's gona' leave us light in a few areas for a year or so, but hey, with some creative manoeuvring like McD5's thrown up, that might not have to be as light as first feared.

Hail.

I am with you 100% on the Cutler move. No, make that 150%.

I am assuming our 13th is gone. That still leaves a major hole at DE.

We dump Davis....a guy who, barring injury to Cooley, honestly isn't going to play that much....to a team where he would play a lot.

In turn, we get a huge Calais Campbell. A second rounder from last year, who also, barring injury, isn't going to play that much at Arizona.

We get what we want, and they get what they want. Sounds like it may have some merit......and wow, would we have a big D line with the addition of someone his size.

Hello Brandon Jacobs. Meet Death.

:cheers:

[wildbill1952]

We actually have adressed both lines. Maybe you forgot about them because of their small contracts, but Derrick Dockery and Albert Haynesworth are now members of the Washington Redskins. We also have young talent on the O-line. That being said, we do need to add another member to the O-line as well as a DE.Young Talent? UDFA's are not talent. Geisinger? Batiste? Clark? Heyer, Riley, Rinehart, Ross? They make a fine practice squad. Rinehart has the most potential and didn't play a down. Heyer is Vinny's attempt to prove you can build an OLine from nothing to justify his aversion to drafting OLine. If he wasn't a home town product, he would not be playing football anywhere. The SKins have spent 3 years on that pipe dream.

Picking up Dockery is one of the luckiest strokes in 10 years of extremely poor planning by the FO, but it was all luck. So now we have Samuels for two to 3 years tops, Dockery for 4 or 5 years next to him on the left, a center who hasn't made a block downfield in the last 3 years and can't push any nose tackle out of the way, and two guys on the right that are so far past their prime they'll be lucky to make it a full season. The "youth" has less than 80 snaps between them for the Skins last year. You've heard of a man for all seasons? How about an OLine for half a season? Because that's all the Skins have, at best.

I can hear Rodney Dangerfield addressing the OLine just like the Skins did. "Helloooooo OLine!"

You get what you pay for and so far, we haven't improved the OLine enough to make a difference next year.

[McD5]

I can hear Rodney Dangerfield addressing the OLine just like the Skins did. "Helloooooo OLine!"

You get what you pay for and so far, we haven't improved the OLine enough to make a difference next year.

Agreed. It needs major attention asap.

There are only two choices--either via the draft, or by trading some talent on the roster right now, as I suggested above.

[MrJL]

Young Talent? UDFA's are not talent. Geisinger? Batiste? Clark? Heyer, Riley, Rinehart, Ross? They make a fine practice squad. Rinehart has the most potential and didn't play a down. Heyer is Vinny's attempt to prove you can build an OLine from nothing to justify his aversion to drafting OLine. If he wasn't a home town product, he would not be playing football anywhere. The SKins have spent 3 years on that pipe dream.

Picking up Dockery is one of the luckiest strokes in 10 years of extremely poor planning by the FO, but it was all luck. So now we have Samuels for two to 3 years tops, Dockery for 4 or 5 years next to him on the left, a center who hasn't made a block downfield in the last 3 years and can't push any nose tackle out of the way, and two guys on the right that are so far past their prime they'll be lucky to make it a full season. The "youth" has less than 80 snaps between them for the Skins last year. You've heard of a man for all seasons? How about an OLine for half a season? Because that's all the Skins have, at best.

I can hear Rodney Dangerfield addressing the OLine just like the Skins did. "Helloooooo OLine!"

You get what you pay for and so far, we haven't improved the OLine enough to make a difference next year.

Heyer's started parts of two years

[Chief skin]

get some O linemen in here, build from ground up

[gonzalez_p]

The Oline can be addressed with a center or guard in the 3rd round. We can continue the carrousel of Heyer and Jansen for one more year at RT. The Dline looks decent, and I think we can pick up a couple of OLBs to rotate in F.A. There are still some serviceable OLBs waiting for the phone to ring. The 13th pick is very valuable, and we should go best available. We can use an upgrade at QB, WR, LB, Oline, DE. I’d much rather live with a couple of band aids and find a game changer then to chase talent.:cool2:

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

it's more likely that Heyer would move to LT before Geisinger would come in.


Have we actually seen Geisinger play center? He might do fine

Justin Geisinger has not been re-signed. He did have a brief spell at LT. Justin, meet Terrell Suggs. 3 plays later, taxi to Injured Reserve for Justin. Can't fault him but it wasn't pretty. Zorn took the heat for that one.

Without Samuels in the game, we are screwed at Tackle. A rookie may not have all of the answers but we need more at that position, somehow.


Great thread. Some of our best newer members are from England it seems.

:notworthy


I am assuming our 13th is gone.


There are only two choices--either via the draft, or by trading some talent on the roster right now.

I now think that the #13 needs to be used to fill two needs via trade back. Without this pick we, in the Cutler scenarios, we just end up having to do without. I don't believe we have much, if anything, on the roster to trade away for any kind of value. The Jason Taylor trade bits us again here, that second would be handy again in this instance ( If we did trade away #13).

[Skin'Em84]

Just like LL pointed out recently, the Dallas offensive line looked horrible when Johnson was playing, then suddenly looked good again upon Romo's return.

Why is that?



To say Brad Johnson is as mobile as a statue is an insult to statues everywhere.

Romo, on the other hand, is very good at avoiding the rush and scrambling.

That's the answer.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

The hysteria around Culter seems to have made all of our other issues vanish.

Have they started to re-appear to anyone yet ?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Have they started to re-appear to anyone yet ?

So lar, now we have the 13 slot tucked firmly away in our back pocket, how do you propose we rebuild the lines with what little picks we have?

Hail.

[RWJ]

Well, I guess I go back to my wish list mock in 2009 from my sig, GHH. Without Jay in the picture now :( , I'd like to see it take place.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

So lar, now we have the 13 slot tucked firmly away in our back pocket, how do you propose we rebuild the lines with what little picks we have?

Hail.

Well, this years first ( or first & third if we trade back )

Plus

next years first, or second / third dependant on the play of the OL vets & LDE position this year.

Something like that will be a start.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well, this years first ( or first & third if we trade back )

Plus

next years first, or second / third dependant on the play of the OL vets & LDE position this year.

Something like that will be a start.

Unless were left trading UP next year to get one of the QB's coming out. ;)

Hail.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Unless were left trading UP next year to get one of the QB's coming out. ;)

Hail.

No more QB stuff, right.

Think trenches. :)

[Capt Rich Fla]

The trenches are coming in the first and second rounds. Second round, you say? JC's gone. DE in the first and QA Shipley in the 2nd. Trenches improved greatly. samuel-doc-shipley-thomas-heyer. Heyer needs to step his game up big time. Thomas needs to stop getting hurt.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

The trenches are coming in the first and second rounds. Second round, you say? JC's gone. DE in the first and QA Shipley in the 2nd. Trenches improved greatly. samuel-doc-shipley-thomas-heyer. Heyer needs to step his game up big time. Thomas needs to stop getting hurt.

I'd hope that if we did pick up an extra day one pick somehow, 2 of our first 3 picks would be lineman.

Based on the last few day, I wouldn't like to say what direction our #1 pick could be heading in. If indeed JC did go, as per your post, even QB would be a possibilty.

[Capt Rich Fla]

I forget who it was, but someone said that 13th pick is burning a hole in Dan's pocket. That was awesome!

[Bang]

So is it official, no one has faith in Stephon Heyer anymore?

~Bang

[DCDiesel44]

We better draft at least 2 offensive lineman in this draft...

[Skinz4Life12]

this thread is too important to let it die

[taylorcoreskin]

:doh:Why should we be talking about rebuilding the trenches when Campbell still needs to learn to man up and admit to his coach when he isn't understanding protection schemes?

[ST is my boy]

Is Rinehart basically garbage or what? We basically never heard anything about him all season.

[Park City Skins]

:doh:Why should we be talking about rebuilding the trenches when Campbell still needs to learn to man up and admit to his coach when he isn't understanding protection schemes?
Because when you look at the lines,especially the oline,there is an obvious need to address them now rather than later. One more season and a few of these guys are going to be getting senior citizen discounts. While Jason didn't help last season with his play at times,there is no doubt that the line needed to shoulder the blame as well for some of the problems. Pretty sure that the "look out" play isn't in the playbook,but it appeared the line called it in an audible several times during last season. Now please try to contain the Jason Campbell critique to the other 16 threads about him specifically.

[Skinz4Life12]

One more season and a few of these guys are going to be getting senior citizen discounts.

:laugh::laugh:

[CPortJGibbs89]

So is it official, no one has faith in Stephon Heyer anymore?

~BangLast year he was somewhat decent at pass blocking but in run blocking I think he is pretty awful. I dont think its time to close the book on him yet since he will have another year to work with Buges. We shall see alot of people are going to be fighting for jobs next year.

[SAli457180]

I forget who it was, but someone said that 13th pick is burning a hole in Dan's pocket. That was awesome!

There's the problem right there. Snyder would rather throw picks to Denver than draft an OL or DL with the 13th pick. Quick and easy instead of draft and develop. That's the Snderatto philosophy.

[GSF]

:doh:Why should we be talking about rebuilding the trenches when Campbell still needs to learn to man up and admit to his coach when he isn't understanding protection schemes?

What protection scheme would that be? The "no protection" protection scheme?

[The Full Monty]

Nice, GSF.

The absolute proof of how pathetic our o-line depth is occured when Geisinger was put out at tackle when Samuels was hurt.

Didn't Suggs say afterward that he even tried looking or talking trash to our sideline something like, "you've GOT to be kidding..."

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Is Rinehart basically garbage or what? We basically never heard anything about him all season.

Well, he won't be playing LG, the position I believe we initially drafted him to play. Is it possible we could coach him up to cover both Guard spots, as I understand he was drafted having solely played LT ? I don't see the point of having a 3rd rounder just being a long term back-up to Dock.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Nice, GSF.

The absolute proof of how pathetic our o-line depth is occured when Geisinger was put out at tackle when Samuels was hurt.

Didn't Suggs say afterward that he even tried looking or talking trash to our sideline something like, "you've GOT to be kidding..."

I also mentioned him when his name came up in an earlier post. He headed to IR after that.

We need another T to go with Samuels,Heyer & Jansen.

We have no real back-up C after Rabach

We need another G to go with Dock, Thomas & Rinehart.

Please draft 2 good OL prospects.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Is Rinehart basically garbage or what? We basically never heard anything about him all season.

I know he played at a lower level but since he was LT in college, it would be NICE to think that Rinehart could somehow get his behind over to RT. I mean, if he got good enough to play that position, I'm sure he could cover a G spot in a pinch.

Is Geisinger a real prospect?

I think for a stud LT you need to be a high draft pick, USUALLY. But the G and C spots should be able to be filled with anywhere from 2nd-6th round picks. The lower round guys may take time and you're not going to have a line of ALL-PROS usually but you need ALL-PRO at blindside tackle and maybe one of the guard spots.

I'm really hoping we can turn the #13 into a couple of more draft picks and get T and C/G. Our third rounder should net us one of the good C prospects. I think that's key. We have enough horses to compete, but we need a quality guy to step in at C and then take over for Rabach by 2010.

I'm probably being overly sentimental here but I think Jansen may have one more year in him at a "solid" level. That OR he could actually move to G for a couple of years. Not all guys are so interchangeable though, so I can't be sure he would be ABLE To do that even if he wanted to. I'd like to see him try if he's healthy enough in terms of not having any real injuries to battle.

[turbodiesel#44]

I'm really hoping we can turn the #13 into a couple of more draft picks and get T and C/G. That would be the best outcome and I think you are 100% right, but I am beginning to doubt our FOs ability to select talent. I lied. I'm not just beginning. We might be better off taking a higher round talent with #13. A little less gamble, the spot is not grossly overpaid, and one of those guys can help immediately, or close to it. But if it goes your way and pans out, that would be better.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

I'm probably being overly sentimental here but I think Jansen may have one more year in him at a "solid" level. That OR he could actually move to G for a couple of years.

Either scenario here would benefit us a great deal.

Failure to do either probably results in JJ not being here in 2010,

[HitStickTaylor21]

Why can't we just take a break from talking about the trenches? We cut dead weight with Jason Taylor, signed Albert Haynesworth, Phillip Daniels and Renaldo Wynn on the defensive line. We signed Derrick Dockery on the offensive line. We need to draft a right tackle and a defensive end, there's the discussion. How many times do we need to go over it? The Cutler talk was a topic of the week, now it's done.

Let's just wait until the draft to dig the issue up over and over, unless we signed someone else, of course. Or would that leave too much room for countless Jason Campbell threads?

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Why can't we just take a break from talking about the trenches?

Perhaps we should start a list of things we can't 'talk about' on here anymore. I'll start ;

QB's
Trenches

:)

[HitStickTaylor21]

Perhaps we should start a list of things we can't 'talk about' on here anymore. I'll start ;

QB's
Trenches

:)

In all seriousness though, I know the offseason is extremely boring, but we discuss the same thing everytime I come to the board.

You have your choice of:

-I hate Campbell and want him gone/Put Brennan in ahead of him
-Snyder sucks
-Vinny sucks
-This is who we need to draft _______
-Let's trade ______ for something we could never realistically get for him
-________ was cut/is available, let's pick him up

I know there isn't much to talk about now, and I know people need a daily fix of talking Skins, but a lot of these horses are so far gone, people are taking bats to glue sticks.

All I'm saying is, it's not that people don't want to re-build the lines, it's just we've talked about it for so long, there isn't much else to say. When Diabetes Quarterback Awareness Week came along, people were all over it because it was something else to talk about.

[prufRock]

Perhaps we should start a list of things we can't 'talk about' on here anymore. I'll start ;

QB's
Trenches

:)
Well played. Here are a couple more...


The Poor Quality of Threads on This Board
How Dumb Most Posters Are