Did we already have a Albert Haynesworth type of player?

[wilco_holland]

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn103/wilco_nieuwehorne/ALbertandAnt.jpg

And his name is......Anthony Montgomery.

I am going to compare them in this thread (not everything makes sence).

Name:

Maby this is a bit strange one but...there names both start whit a ''A'' and there first + second name both contain 17 letters.

Build:

Both have the same height, 6'6'' and weight almost the same, Albert 320-Anthony 315

Mental game:

Both have/had qeustion marks about there work ethic, and both have a bit bad-ass image.

Comming out of college, what scouts and experts said:
Albert:

Massive frame and size and a great body. Tremendous athlete for his size. Has a great upside if he will pay the price. Very quick off the ball and explosive when he plays at a good pad level. Can be overpowering and dominating inside. No one man can block him when he is motivated and uses good technique. Played much harder in '01 than he ever had before.

A physical specimen ... can not be blocked one-on-one at the point of attack ... uncanny strength and speed; extremely quick and agile.... Never stops working.

Anthony:

Explosive thumper in the middle, tough to knock off his feet. Explodes off the snap and displays good range on the field. Takes up a lot of room in the middle of the line, keeps his feet moving on contact and is consistently doubled by opponents. Athletic and displays the ability to drop into coverage. Works to get off blocks and stays with the action.

he was regularly praised by scouts for his athleticism and was known as a nimble run-stopper capable of taking on double teams.

Anthony Montgomery has great size and strength for the defensive tackle position. Anthony Montgomery is very quick and agile for his size. Anthony Montgomery makes good use of his hands while working in the trenches. Anthony Montgomery has a quick first step. Anthony Montgomery shows above average football intelligence for a defensive tackle.

First 3 seasons/Stats:

Started almost the same amount of games in there first three seasons, Albert 24-Anthony 22.

(This is a genius one) There tackle stats:

Albert:
Albert made 98 total tackles in his first three season, 67 of them were solo tackles. That means that 68,36% of there tackles were solo.
Anthony:
Anthony made 74 total tackles in his first three season, 51 of them were solo tackles. That means that 68,91% of there tackles were solo.

In there first three seasons a career high of sacks and passes deflected:
Albert, 2.5 sacks (in his second season) and 4 PD (second season)
Anthony, 2 sacks (in his third season) and 4 PD (second season)

The future for Anthony?

I think it will be the same story as Albert, he will continu to be good but not great the next couple of seasons and then after does seasons he will have a breakout season.
So I would say keep him because of his potential, he could become a great pair whit Albert. We could have one of the strongest and biggest inside D-line in the league.

If anybody knows more of this stuff post it.

Thx for reading,
Wilco

[Oldfan]

That's a good post, Wilco. You got me thinking that maybe Monty's a late bloomer.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I think Montgomery has a lot of potential, but this post is a bit out there (to say the least).

[Chump Bailey]

I don't see the comparison. Montgomery just does not show the consistent power Albert does.

[posse87]

Haynesworth may make Montgomery look quite a bit better just because Big Al is next to him.

[Goaldeje]

I don't see the comparison. Montgomery just does not show the consistent power Albert does.

That's the point of the post. Haynesworth didn't show that power either, consistently until a couple of years ago. Maybe Monty just needs a little time?

[TURKEYTALKER]

Maybe the money that Albert got will make Monty want to work harder so he can cash in

[wilco_holland]

Maybe the money that Albert got will make Monty want to work harder so he can cash in

Hmm that's a interesting idea....would Dan be 'smart' enough to have 2 100 mil. DT's? That would be horrible for the salary cap.

[Chump Bailey]

That's the point of the post. Haynesworth didn't show that power either, consistently until a couple of years ago. Maybe Monty just needs a little time?

I don't see the point in comparing stats for DT's. Albert's primary asset is his ability to command double and triple teams of blockers, something I cannot envision the same for AM anytime in the near future. That would be nice of course were it to happen, but it's just my .02 - I could be wrong and perhaps Monty's best football is yet to come. Anthony was ranked as a three star potential FA by one site IIRC.

[skinfan2k]

Montegomery played at a probowl level at the end of 2007. During that 4 game win streak, no one could run in the middle against him

[bobzmuda]

Montegomery played at a probowl level at the end of 2007. During that 4 game win streak, no one could run in the middle against him

If not Pro-Bowl level, awfully close. (I have Norv to thank/blame for my use of awfully now. Thanks, Norv.)

But he was terrible last year. Just terrible. He looked like a rookie again. I was surprised by how much he regressed. Hopefully this will light a fire under his rear.

Unless he steps up his game he's in danger of getting caught in a numbers game and getting cut.

[skinfan2k]

If not Pro-Bowl level, awfully close. (I have Norv to thank/blame for my use of awfully now. Thanks, Norv.)

But he was terrible last year. Just terrible. He looked like a rookie again. I was surprised by how much he regressed. Hopefully this will light a fire under his rear.

Unless he steps up his game he's in danger of getting caught in a numbers game and getting cut.

Oh i defintely agree, that why i was so suprised at golston. I seriously thought DT was not gonna be a need for the next few years with Monte developing into a PTP

[Santana_Fan]

Haynesworth may make Montgomery look quite a bit better just because Big Al is next to him.

I agree. I know there will be no running up the middle, regardless.

[Shilsu]

Ehh.... Montgomery was a fifth round pick and Haynesworth was a first round pick... So I really don't think their careers started out the same. I do think Montgomery can be a great end result product, though.

Honestly, I was actually optimistic about our DT situation at the beginning of last season... I constantly saw Montgomery in the backfield and forcing the QB to move around in 2007. He was just too slow or overrunning the pocket to get to the QB, and of course we lacked consistent defensive ends to finish the job. Some people think it's because of Phillip Daniels that Andre Carter got his sacks in 2007... I have a theory it was because of Montgomery.

Anyway, I don't know what happened last year, but Montgomery got benched and Golston just doesn't impress me.

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, us ESers are just so picky and tough as fans, we didn't even notice we had the best D lineman in the league on our line and let him go. Whoops.

Cooley- Gonzo, Moss- Boldin, Campbell- Manning.

[SWFLSkins]

Two good young DT's on the roster, what's the problem?

Monty last year was the only tackle opposing teams had to take out, maybe the reason he regressed. He rested on 2007 and ended up getting bumped by Golston. I don't see the comparison to Haynesworth as he is a premier tackle. But this is Monty's chance to step up, if not Golston may do it. Either way the competition at the position is good.

[Buck812]

I think we have 3 good young tackles on the team in Monty, Goldston and Alexander that I would like to keep. Haynesworth could make these guys look like stars though and run the price up.

[REEGSKINS]

i think we are gonna be beastly in the middle this year.

[fnkdctr(007)]

Montgomery is good but Haynesworth is a manchild.
It will be good to see them together with and with griffin in the mix.

[Hail-to-da-skins-21]

well now we got two ! lol

[Burgold]

Hopefully, if you're right than Montgomery can learn and take a page or two from Haynesworth. Remember Butz and Grant? Having a pair of killers in the middle can be a lot of fun for the D.

[PROSCOUT]

I have NO problem with picking up the best defensive tackl in the league. It helps us.

BUT...BUT..yes we now have possibly the 2 best defensive tackles in the league. Here are the stats for Haynesworth and Monty during years 2 and 3. I discount the rookie year for anyone because that is a true learning year. But in YEARS NUMBER TWO AND THREE....

Haynseworth started 21 games 68 tackles 3.5 sacks

Montgomery started 21 games 65 tackles 2.5 sacks


Nearly identicle stats. And now Monty will be inspired by Big Al and his contract. My only regret is that the Skins did not lock up Monty with a 3 year contract instead of a tender. Now, next year Monty will become a free agent and we will lose him. What a shame, that maybe the Giants or Cowboys will get the next Haynseworth for much less money than we payed for the original. CRAP!

[[[ghost]]]

I think Haynesworth will really open things up for Monty. That kind of player next to him will make him that much better.

[PROSCOUT]

If not Pro-Bowl level, awfully close. (I have Norv to thank/blame for my use of awfully now. Thanks, Norv.)

But he was terrible last year. Just terrible. He looked like a rookie again. I was surprised by how much he regressed. Hopefully this will light a fire under his rear.

Unless he steps up his game he's in danger of getting caught in a numbers game and getting cut.

trust me. Monty is not going to get cut. In fact, he is very much like Big AL. Remember, a lot of people accused Big Al of taking plays off and disappearing furing his early years as well. Contract years have a way of bringing the best out in players and THIS is Montys contract year.

If Griffin is healthy then the Skins have the best defensive tackle squad in the NFL. (we just don't have any pass rushing defensive ends)

[MrJL]

I think we have 3 good young tackles on the team in Monty, Goldston and Alexander that I would like to keep. Haynesworth could make these guys look like stars though and run the price up.


With Haynesworth and Griffin we're now five deep at DT so I don't know if Alexander will spend much time there. Though I wonder if maybe we'll have him work on the OL some like in 2007

[JACKPOTSKINS]

Job well done!

[PROSCOUT]

With Haynesworth and Griffin we're now five deep at DT so I don't know if Alexander will spend much time there. Though I wonder if maybe we'll have him work on the OL some like in 2007

Alexander needs to get some work at Center. He is heavier than Raybach and there simply aren't any other slots open on this team where here can play. But we REALLY need to groom somebody at Center.

HOW ABOUT WE GROOM HIM AT CENTER?

[skinfan2k]

trust me. Monty is not going to get cut. In fact, he is very much like Big AL. Remember, a lot of people accused Big Al of taking plays off and disappearing furing his early years as well. Contract years have a way of bringing the best out in players and THIS is Montys contract year.

If Griffin is healthy then the Skins have the best defensive tackle squad in the NFL. (we just don't have any pass rushing defensive ends)

Well last year was his contract year and all he got was tendered at a 5th round level. How do you explain that?

[PROSCOUT]

Well last year was his contract year and all he got was tendered at a 5th round level. How do you explain that?

well, actually he was in a tender year. There was nothing he could do to become a BIG TIME free agent. Contract year is different than TENDER year.

As far as performance, I have no idea. You will have to discuss that with the coaching staff. The Skins had a top flight defense in many respects last season. NOBODY scored 30 points on them The defense was ranked high against the run. I didn't see people running all over Monty but I did see people running on Jason Taylor and scurrying around the end.

So I am not certain what you mean by "how do you explain that". What exactly is there to explain. His 2nd and 3rd year are almost exactly like Albert Haynesworths 2nd and 3rd years.

What exactly is there to explain????

[SirClintonPortis]

Isn't he not that good at playing the 1-tech or 3-tech position or something like that?

[DCsportsfan53]

:rotflmao:

Fans are so delusional. That is all.

[moondog]

I'm not sure if Monty has that much potential. But given his size and athletic ability - it's pretty rare for guys to be his size and that athletic. Someone posted a youtube video of him about a year ago chasing down a skill player and getting a group tackle. Unfortunately he can be so good one moment and then terrible the next (as stated about the difference in 07 and 08 seasons). If he ever gets motivated and plays like he did in 07 AND with that it would be natural to assume he can improve in technical areas and whatnot, he could become an stud. But as it stands with Griff and Haynesworth as the starters, Montgomery is the 4th DT in the rotation behind Golston. That's unacceptable for a guy like Golston to beat him out purely based on effort because Montgomery has much more athletic ability and a much better frame to be both a pass rusher and a run stuffer.

Personally, I thought Lorenzo Alexander had a great season last year and I hope we don't have to lose him in a numbers game, which is why I didn't want to sign both Wynn and Daniels. He is a hidden gem we picked up that shows as much enthusiasm and desire as anyone and has consistently gotten better on the field. I really like that guy and I'd much rather have a young hard worker like him with enough talent to play that is improving than someone like Wynn.

[SIXX99]

Well now we have them both so there.

[Playsmart30]

I think we have 3 good young tackles on the team in Monty, Goldston and Alexander that I would like to keep. Haynesworth could make these guys look like stars though and run the price up.

I cannot see it in Alexander. He is a great guy but not a star in making

[PrimetimeSkins26]

No.


:doh::doh:

[Shilsu]

Isn't he not that good at playing the 1-tech or 3-tech position or something like that?

Well he and Kedric Golston generally played at the one-technique. I don't know if that was out of necessity (due to the fact our defensive line's depth suck ass) or because that's what their skills are suited for, but if Montgomery remains there, he'll probably be playing to give Haynesworth a breather rather than playing alongside him.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

I think Montgomery has a lot of potential, but this post is a bit out there (to say the least).

I agree. At this point, though, they're not comparable.

[skins2victory]

I agree. I know there will be no running up the middle, regardless.

Yes, then wont have to worry about the middle as much because we should have lots of penetration and can focus alot more attention on the outsides were we should be blitzing from more.

[Justsomeguy]

Not at this point. It would be the **** if he does pan out that way. Hail

[Rocky52Mc]

I have seen a dip in Griffen's performance. I always have enjoyed Montgomery. He's a good player and just needs a bit more coaching. He will be a solid player here if not better. Along-side haynesworth he could be dominate. I think the Skins are very excited to have him back and to develop into a playmaker at DT for us.

[Buck812]

I cannot see it in Alexander. He is a great guy but not a star in making


Not a star in the making but I think he may be one of the better 4th or 5th DTs that any team has in the NFL and certainly a good rotation player which is why I would love to hold on to him. Our top four guys are all big DTs and he just brings a little quickness to the unit when called upon.

[chrisbcbu]

I agree. At this point, though, they're not comparable.

Thats the issue he isnt comparing them right now. He is comparing both of their first 3 seasons. And they are pretty close.

I dont know how Montgomery is going to turn out but i think he can only improve with a DT like Albert here.

[Santana_89]

I dont know how Montgomery is going to turn out but i think he can only improve with a DT like Albert here.

ITA. He may not reach Haynesworth status but he is very solid.It would be awesome for this franchise if Monty and Haynesworth became a great tandem.For the next couple of years we could be SET at DT.It's been a longtime since we could say that.

[Area51]

I still don't know why Gholston was starting ahead of Montgomery. Even though he has supposedly regressed since 2007, Montgomery has always(2007-08) been great against the run. He also has been the only player that I've seen pushing back the pocket, and give something of a pass rush down the middle.

I hope its not a matter of him being in one of the coaches "doghouse." We've seen that before with Holdman>Arrington, ANYONE>Archuleta, etc. because Montgomery was much better than Gholston for the past two years.

[SAli457180]

I don't see the comparison. Montgomery just does not show the consistent power Albert does.

Exactly. Montgomery needs to be rotated with Griffin and Golston to be effective whereas AH is an ever down guy.

[Snagletooth]

Well if AH lets up on the gas after his big payday, then we will have 2 Monty's.

[Mooka]

I still don't know why Gholston was starting ahead of Montgomery. Even though he has supposedly regressed since 2007, Montgomery has always(2007-08) been great against the run. He also has been the only player that I've seen pushing back the pocket, and give something of a pass rush down the middle. Montgomery had a broken hand.

In the earlier part of the season though, Kedric was outstanding in a few games and clearly outplayed Monty. Monty was horrible in a couple games. I remember Gholston dominating the Saints run game while Monty was getting abused.

He may not have been 100% though.


I hope its not a matter of him being in one of the coaches "doghouse." We've seen that before with Holdman>Arrington, ANYONE>Archuleta, etc. because Montgomery was much better than Gholston for the past two years. No that's not the case. And Archuleta? Seriously? Is the guy even on an NFL roster anymore?

[Thinking Skins]

Build:

Both have the same height, 6'6'' and weight almost the same, Albert 320-Anthony 315

Mental game:

Both have/had qeustion marks about there work ethic, and both have a bit bad-ass image.

First 3 seasons/Stats:

Started almost the same amount of games in there first three seasons, Albert 24-Anthony 22.

(This is a genius one) There tackle stats:

Albert:
Albert made 98 total tackles in his first three season, 67 of them were solo tackles. That means that 68,36% of there tackles were solo.
Anthony:
Anthony made 74 total tackles in his first three season, 51 of them were solo tackles. That means that 68,91% of there tackles were solo.

In there first three seasons a career high of sacks and passes deflected:
Albert, 2.5 sacks (in his second season) and 4 PD (second season)
Anthony, 2 sacks (in his third season) and 4 PD (second season)


First I want to say that this was a nicely done post and I appreciate the time you put into it.

Now as far as your claims:

You'd be surprised how many DTs have put up numbers similar to Albert and Anthony. Many of them have gone on to become pro bowlerd, many have been seen as upcoming potential and signed massive contracts, and many never developed into anything. The thing is that for many schemes, DTs are not asked to get tackles or stats. They're asked to occupy linemen and free up space for the LBs to make tackeles. Is there a stat for that?

Even in Montgomery's best time in 2007, his main presence was as a force against the run. He wasn't collapsing the pocket or forcing centers to double team him (on pass plays). I've heard many people give many reasons as to why Carter got his sacks (Sean Taylor, Daniels, Montgomery, Griffin, etc). I tend to put the philosophy into it being mostly Daniels. Thats what we brought him for. He started doing it at the end of 2006, and continued it into 2007.

I have high hopes for Montgomery, but I can see him as more of a comparison to Kris Jenkis of the Jets or Marcus Stroud - both are really good run stuffers, and decent pass rushers. Thats the potential I see from Montgomery.

[Thinking Skins]

Exactly. Montgomery needs to be rotated with Griffin and Golston to be effective whereas AH is an ever down guy.

Montgomery may compare nicely to Haywood of the Wizards. He's a guy who was very inconsistent early in his career, but the rotation with Etan kinda made him better and he really became a legit center when Etan went down.

If we just give the job to Montgomery, then we'll probably be letting him get by on his BS work ethic. He needs to be in rotation and competition with the others until he shows the coaches that he deserves that job.

[HBnotBlades]

The real problem with this comparison is that the first few years of Haynesworth's career were largely disappointing. He had the potential to be elite, but didn't live up to his talents and played like a mediocre DT causing many people to label him as a bust. Saying Montgomery will be great because he has similar stats to Haynesworth in his most disappointing seasons is false logic.

[PROSCOUT]

Here are the stats for Haynesworth and Monty during years 2 and 3. I discount the rookie year for anyone because that is a true learning year. But in YEARS NUMBER TWO AND THREE....

Haynseworth started 21 games 68 tackles 3.5 sacks

Montgomery started 21 games 65 tackles 2.5 sacks


Nearly identicle stats.

I thought these stats were worth re-emphasizing