Campbell Nay-Sayers chew on this????(Merged)

[skinsnut18231977]

I apologize if this is long winded....

Here we go...

Campbell threw 110 less passes than Cutler. Of that Cutler threw for 4,526 yards in '08 compared to 3,245 for Campbell. If you project that out at Campbells' average yards per pass of 6.41 it would of been 3,681 for the extra 110 pass attempts at his 62.3 completion rate(roughly).

Now less we forget that our offensive systems relies upon short 5 to 10 yard completions with an average recieving corp.

Now if you extend everything else out it would mean that Campbell would have an additional 3 td's and NO interceptions out of 616 pass attempts....not amazing but not bad either in a first year led offense.

Now add together the weaker AFC versus the stronger NFC(not to mentions the EAST..) sounds solid to me?? Also add the fact that Cutler has been in the same system for a couple of seasons longer too.

In my opinion does this sound like someone whom we should be throwing the towel in on??? Remember it took several seasons for Eli to come into his own. Why are we as Skins' fans so hell-bent on turnover??? Colt B.? Cutler? When does it end...come on guys and gals!!

I've been a Skins' fan since I was 10 years old(32 now) and I live in New York and even I can see this.

Snyder and Cerreto have an obligation as mis-guided as it may be to keep the team profitable and winning. Coming from there prospective I can see why they would try the smoke and mirrors to acquire Cutler. It doesn't make it right or even the ethically correct way to say to Campbell..."We like you but we think we have a better chance with him"...but it is the business. Snyder will not change ...he will continue to make a big splash as with Jerry Jones its who they are. I'm glad I'm not a fan of a small market team though...lol. All I'm saying is as many mediorce and fustrating seasons we've had I can see why the front-office would pull the trigger on this.

But as a Skins' fan from 360 miles away I can see giving Campbell a chance to succeed is in our best interest.

Oh and one other thing for you Nay-Sayers out there...

Cutler was sacked 11 times last season....any takers on how many times Campbell was sacked??????

38 FREAKIN times!!!...come on does anyone see what platform Campbell would have been on is you throw 27 less sacks into the afe-forementioned stats??? My opinion it would have blown them out of the water!!!

Any thoughs??

Hail!!!:logo:

[BAMBAM30]

yes...and that's why we need to put a good o-line and give him another year in this offense before we run him outta town

[the12thSkin]

what he said

[KingGibbs]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Numbers aside when it comes to one test, Cutler scores a much higher grade then Campbell and that's the "eyeball" test.

Case in point? Through all this trade talk and all of the highlights been shown on NFL Network and ESPN you see Cutler throwing darts in the redzone for TD's. Then there's Campbell between the 20's, stalling, again.

All of us want Campbell to succeed, but many of us don't see it happening.

That being said. I think it's time to stop all of this Cutler talk because he's not coming here.

[DieselPwr44]

Any this couldn't of been said in the other million Campbell threads why???????

[fansince62]

Any this couldn't of been said in the other million Campbell threads why???????

Truth be told....anything said is beside the point: the FO does not know how to build for long-term success. that is the real lesson learned after lo these many years. see Gints or Pats for better run teams. Skins' roster management has been and continues to be amateurish.

[skinsnut18231977]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Numbers aside when it comes to one test, Cutler scores a much higher grade then Campbell and that's the "eyeball" test.

Case in point? Through all this trade talk and all of the highlights been shown on NFL Network and ESPN you see Cutler throwing darts in the redzone for TD's. Then there's Campbell between the 20's, stalling, again.

All of us want Campbell to succeed, but many of us don't see it happening.

That being said. I think it's time to stop all of this Cutler talk because he's not coming here.

Yeah but your comparing apple to oranges...don't your see that not apples to apples...lol...look at culters numbers in his first full season under that offense compared to Campbells' .....you can't compare...inside the 20 or not just let it fly til the end of next season and THAN you might have an agruement.

[HBnotBlades]

Cutler player 8 games (yes, half the schedule) against teams in the bottom 8 defensively last year and the highest ranked defensive team he played was Tampa Bay at #9.

Campbell on the other hand played 8 games against the top 8 defenses in the league and 6 games against the top 4 (not including the skins D).

If you take those games Campbell played against the steelers, ravens, giants, etc. and substitute in multiple games against the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers (surprisingly ranked #25 defensively last year) I'm sure his stats would look much more comparable to Cutlers.

[twistedpower]

your also leaving out that JC has a better record as a starting QB then cutler by one game

[bubba9497]

the eyeball test?


:rotflmao:


sorry but most don't know what they are seeing, or (more likely) see only what they want to see

and as far as the darts in the redzone Cutler threw, you may want to get some glasses because Campbell was far more efficient inside the opponent's 20 yard line

Cutler

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/cutler.png

Campbell

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/camp.png


and remember as pointed out above, Cutler faced far inferior defenses all season

[1972FAN]

Any this couldn't of been said in the other million Campbell threads why???????

Yes enough already, Your not going to change anybodys mind either way. He's here move on~ geesh

[NoleSkin21]

Good post, but I disagree on a few things. Sacks aren't always on the Oline. Jason holds onto the ball way too long. Guys with quick releases like cutler, hasselbeck and favre can cut down on sacks just getting rid of the ball. The Broncos run an offense very similar to ours, Shanahan, Holmgren and Zorn are cut from the same clothe of the WCO. The jury is out on Jason, and he needs to step it up for our aging team to be successful. It all hinges on him, imo.

[Hokieskins1]

Good post. I hope he lights it up this year.

[DieselPwr44]

Food for thought.......

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4df92&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


Other interesting facts about Cutler:

» He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.

» He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.

» He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.

» He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).

» He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo and Ben Roethlisberger, to name a few.

» He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars).

» He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.

» Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.

» Only Jacksonville's David Garrard threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.

Cutler is not a finished product, but when you consider his age, production (54 touchdown passes in 37 games) and contract, he has serious trade value. If Cutler is traded, the prorated signing bonus stays behind with Denver. Only his salary, workout bonus and likely-to-be-earned bonuses go to the new team.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

Those are good points. I like the thread. There's just one problem. Eli hasn't come into his own. He's still an average QB on a great team.

[HBnotBlades]

Case in point? Through all this trade talk and all of the highlights been shown on NFL Network and ESPN you see Cutler throwing darts in the redzone for TD's. Then there's Campbell between the 20's, stalling, again.


We have remember that Cutlers running game was pretty weak this year too. The bronco's red zone offense had a much greater passing game component that ours did. When we were inside the 10 we'd bring in the Jumbo package and bust it up the middle while denver spread the field and put cutler in a shotgun. That's going to skew his TD's upwards as opposed to what he'd have playing in our offense.

[jnhay]

Any this couldn't of been said in the other million Campbell threads why???????

I know what you're saying, but reading that out loud is funny.

[twistedpower]

i dont know if JC is going to be an elite QB or not but i do know im glad we didnt get Cutler, they have been running alot of highlights on him in the last week and on everyone of them you see him going to his first option, that guy was always open and while he was throwing it Cutler didnt have anyone near him trying to sack him. how many times did JC get that last year?

[KingGibbs]

the eyeball test?


:rotflmao:


sorry but most don't know what they are seeing, or more see only what they want to see

and as far as the darts in the redzone Cutler threw, you may want to get some glasses because Campbell was far more efficient inside the opponent's 20 yard line

Cutler

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/cutler.png





Campbell

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/camp.png

Bubba, bubba, bubba. You are such a gullible little fellow. You believe everything that comes out of Snyderatto's mouth and you you can't seem to take those B&G colored glasses off and accept the fact that some Redskins players just can't cut it. Perhaps you should get some prescription lenses to help you with your cloudy vision.

[twistedpower]

Good post, but I disagree on a few things. Sacks aren't always on the Oline. Jason holds onto the ball way too long. Guys with quick releases like cutler, hasselbeck and favre can cut down on sacks just getting rid of the ball. The Broncos run an offense very similar to ours, Shanahan, Holmgren and Zorn are cut from the same clothe of the WCO. The jury is out on Jason, and he needs to step it up for our aging team to be successful. It all hinges on him, imo.

Favre is also the alltime leader in INTs and Cutler is on his way there

[HBnotBlades]

Bubba, bubba, bubba. You are such a gullible little fellow. You believe everything that comes out of Snyderatto's mouth and you you can't seem to take those B&G colored glasses off and accept the fact that some Redskins players just can't cut it. Perhaps you should get some prescription lenses to help you with your cloudy vision.

He just listed cold hard facts. Specific numbers in the red zone that showed Campbell out performed cutler in that area of the field. He may have rose colored glasses, but that post wasn't an example of it.

[1972FAN]

You know this is a pointless thread, his point is to convince some people who were for the trade that Campbell is a better QB?, Sorry other people may think differently and they dont need to be convince their wrong and your right, its their point of view if you don't like cutler boards move on, don't read them. I for one was in favor of the trade. But Campbell is here So he's the QB thats it end of story. move on

[SittingBull]

KingGibbs...snyderatto actually agreed with you and wanted to ship Campbell out of here, not the other way around...

[bubba9497]

Bubba, bubba, bubba. You are such a gullible little fellow. You believe everything that comes out of Snyderatto's mouth and you you can't seem to take those B&G colored glasses off and accept the fact that some Redskins players just can't cut it. Perhaps you should get some prescription lenses to help you with your cloudy vision.


boy you are batting a thousand today, once again you completely ignore what was posted just to childishly attack me and my creditability as if that changes the facts posted. The "you're a homer routine is kind of old and pointless" especially when the post dealt with actual FACTS!

the usual "debate" tactic of someone who feels his position is threatened, and can't logically dispute the facts presented

[bubba9497]

He just listed cold hard facts. Specific numbers in the red zone that showed Campbell out performed cutler in that area of the field. He may have rose colored glasses, but that post wasn't an example of it.


some people can't deal with the truth, especially when it doesn't agree with what they want to believe.

[mbws]

Favre is also the alltime leader in INTs and Cutler is on his way there

Farve cost the Jets a division title last year with the INTs.

[bubba9497]

KingGibbs...snyderatto actually agreed with you and wanted to ship Campbell out of here, not the other way around...



:hysterical: good call

[haileysbadoldad]

If I'm not mistaken Cutler ran the west coast offense in Denver too, so 5 to 10 yard passes were a regular there as well.

[#BgMase76#]

I keep hearing about all the stats, and Cutler's intagibles but has anyone addressed Campbell's shortfalls? Can anyone tell me another starting QB who basically has had to learn a new offense every offseason? Everyone knows consistency is a basic requirement. Where's his at? I'm not wearing hometeam blinders or anything else. I just want to know when does he get to keep the same playbook. Right now i'd say he was middle of the pack as far as starting QB's go. And i really don't feel he can get beyond that until the FO stops playing games. How much longer do you think Zorn is gonna be around? Yeah, if he doesn't get released by next off season the FO will be jumping at the next big name head coach. So if he's there then he'll be learning yet another offense. I honestly can't put too much blame on him. Be honest with yourself, who else in the NFL changes playbooks like socks on a rainy day?:dallasuck

[bubba9497]

If I'm not mistaken Cutler ran the west coast offense in Denver too, so 5 to 10 yard passes were a regular there as well.


he actually had 5 more attempts between the 10 and "behind the line"

Cutler 395 attempts
Campbell 390 attempts

[Burgold]

I'm with you. I think many on this board have fallen off the deep end. They are not only convinced that Campbell is the worst QB in the NFL many of them seem to be longing for the days of Danny Weurfal. They seem to have created a fantasy and have exaggerated to such a degree that Jason is apocolyptically bad.

The level of rhetoric is just absurd.

[wysknz1]

If I'm not mistaken Cutler ran the west coast offense in Denver too, so 5 to 10 yard passes were a regular there as well.

Take it from someone who watches a lot of donkey games....NOT the same offense. Maybe Cutler is a better QB, but my argument against him all along has been his attitude. Cutler is a punk and I think he always will be. Watch him on the sidelines.

I remember MANY games where everyone on this board complained about our players attitudes, then they want to bring this creep in?

Some things go beyond talent. I'm not going to bring Jason even in to this, Cutler is and will be a cancer. He belongs in the class of TO.

[Skins1957]

Say what you want to about Jason Campbell's QB abilities. However he is a Class Act and a leader. Just remember Billy 1972 NFC Champs Kilmer.

[81tothehall]

Give the man a line to play behind and some consistency with the playbook and we'll see what he is about. The receivers have to step up as well. Randle El has a lot to do with Jason not doing that well, he absolutely sucks and hardly anybody ever gives him any crap.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm with you. I think many on this board have fallen off the deep end. They are not only convinced that Campbell is the worst QB in the NFL many of them seem to be longing for the days of Danny Weurfal. They seem to have created a fantasy and have exaggerated to such a degree that Jason is apocolyptically bad.

The level of rhetoric is just absurd.

Unfortunately, as a Campbell backer, I feel like this pro/anti Campbell talk has us drawing lines in the sand. It seems like whatever anybody's willing to say thats "pro" Campbell, the pros cheer and the anti's screan. ANd if the anti's say something against Campbell, the pro's scream and the anit's scream.

It really seems like reality means even less on Extremeskins now than ever before.

[LD0506]

Unfortunately, as a Campbell backer, I feel like this pro/anti Campbell talk has us drawing lines in the sand. It seems like whatever anybody's willing to say thats "pro" Campbell, the pros cheer and the anti's screan. ANd if the anti's say something against Campbell, the pro's scream and the anit's scream.

It really seems like reality means even less on Extremeskins now than ever before.

Sad but true, it does feel exactly that way. The middle ground where we used to debate the pros and cons of a situation and both sides could learn a little/teach a little/agree on a lot seems to have shrunk drastically, and not just on this issue (although this is the schism du jour).

[Rocky52Mc]

Those are good points. I like the thread. There's just one problem. Eli hasn't come into his own. He's still an average QB on a great team.

Which is what people can't comprehend. Regardless IF Campbell becomes a star or not, you can win with his style of play. It's called blocking.

[LD0506]

Which is what people can't comprehend. Regardless IF Campbell becomes a star or not, you can win with his style of play. It's called blocking.

Exactly. There are simply not 32 Tom Bradys/Peyton Mannings out there, it is not possible to demand that from every QB in the league. Would it be great to find that? Oh hell yeah, but it is mandatory? Nope

[GPinn1224]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this HUGE difference between cutler and campbell.....but that bonehead receiver named marshall is a nice asset for a qb. I'm not saying campbell is better than cutler at all.....I'm just saying you gotta look at the big picture. And yes, i'm a JC supporter.

[GPinn1224]

Oops......JC= Jason Campbell not Jay Cutler.

[NoleSkin21]

Favre is also the alltime leader in INTs and Cutler is on his way there

The point was about sacks, not INTs. All good TD throwing Qb's throw alot of interceptions.

[DieHardSkins88]

Cutler player 8 games (yes, half the schedule) against teams in the bottom 8 defensively last year and the highest ranked defensive team he played was Tampa Bay at #9.

Campbell on the other hand played 8 games against the top 8 defenses in the league and 6 games against the top 4 (not including the skins D).

If you take those games Campbell played against the steelers, ravens, giants, etc. and substitute in multiple games against the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers (surprisingly ranked #25 defensively last year) I'm sure his stats would look much more comparable to Cutlers.

Well we sure will find out this year, we play that division

[SirClintonPortis]

Oh, let's bring in Cutler's 2007 stats just for the hell of it.

G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate
16 16 297 467 63.6 3,497 7.5 20 14 27 153 88.1 4

And who he had to throw to:

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD
Brandon Marshall 102 1325 13.0 68 7
Tony Scheffler 49 549 11.2 41 5
Brandon Stokley 40 635 15.9 58 5
Selvin Young 35 231 6.6 24 0
Javon Walker 26 287 11.0 24 0
Daniel Graham 24 246 10.3 28 2
Glenn Martinez 14 175 12.5 23 0
Cecil Sapp 14 51 3.6 16 1
Travis Henry 7 65 9.3 21 0
Chad Mustard 5 62 12.4 15 0
Nate Jackson 3 34 11.3 24 1
Andre Hall 2 69 34.5 65 0
Mike Bell 1 7 7.0 7 0

I would like Campbell to have a higher average, of course.

[twistedpower]

The point was about sacks, not INTs. All good TD throwing Qb's throw alot of interceptions.

lets just check this out by going down the list of QBs that threw for more TDs then cutler, by your reasoning they should all have more INTs then Cutler

Drew Brees had 9 more TD and 1 less INTs

Philip Rivers had 9 more TD and 7 less INTs

Kurt Warner had 5 more TD and 4 less INTs

Aaron Rodgers had 3 more TD and 5 less INTs

Peyton Manning had 2 more TD and 6 less INTs

Tony Romo had 1 more TD and 4 less INTs

all those guys had more TDs then cutler last year and in some cases allot less INTs, so i would say you are wrong

[DariusCyrus]

the eyeball test?


:rotflmao:


sorry but most don't know what they are seeing, or (more likely) see only what they want to see

and as far as the darts in the redzone Cutler threw, you may want to get some glasses because Campbell was far more efficient inside the opponent's 20 yard line

Cutler

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/cutler.png

Campbell

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/camp.png


and remember as pointed out above, Cutler faced far inferior defenses all season

THANK YOU!

STFU for all that wanted Cutler... he is just a whiny crying biatch...:hysterical:

[eljeasel]

and as far as the darts in the redzone Cutler threw, you may want to get some glasses because Campbell was far more efficient inside the opponent's 20 yard line

Cutler

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/cutler.png

Campbell

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/camp.png



I was for the Cutler move until I crunched his redzone stats.

17td 4 int looks pretty good until I realized 12 of his 17 Red Zone TDs were thrown to 5 seperate targets 6'2 or larger.

1 to Peyton Hills, FB (6-2, 250)
1 to Nate Jackson, TE (6-3, 235)
5 to Brandon Marshall, WR (6-4, 230)
3 to Daniel Graham, TE (6-3, 257)
2 to Tony Scheffler, TE (6-5, 250)

I dont think we have the personnel to allow Cutler reproduce those kinds of numbers. Let me qualify that. We have Cooley, Thomas, Kelly, and Davis (and I guess you could put Sellers and Yoder on there). But outside of Cooley, none of those other players really got on the field or into the offense last year. Who knows if Thomas will ever earn his way into the RZ packages, who knows if Davis would ever get into that Mutli TE package, who knows if Kelly can even play? Too many questions for too steep a price for a player of which I dont know their true RZ capabilities for my liking.

Id rather keep the resources that would have been burned on Cutler and pour them into the rest of the team.

[jweisk1]

good post...

[da#1skinsfan]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11588497/rss

Clark Judge wrote a very succinct, factual article about Campbell. I dont think anyone disagrees the way Campbell handled this Cutler situation was just about flawless, but there is one blurb that many of us directly relate to, and many others feel the exact opposite.


People close to the Redskins tell me he needs to play more consistently and be more of a leader, but tell me what he did wrong the first half of last season. He won six of eight games, didn't throw an interception, completed 66 percent of his passes and had a passer rating of 104.2. I'd say that was pretty consistent.

Of course, it all unraveled the second half, but the downward spiral wasn't all about Campbell. The offensive line lost was riddled with injuries, with the Redskins losing both their starting tackles. Star running back Clinton Portis was hurt, too. And Zorn put the heat on Campbell, having him memorize more of the playbook.

Result: Washington lost six of its last eight, and Campbell fizzled with the rest of the club.

This is the most concise, accurate view of the Redskins 2008 season and Jason Campbell that Ive ever seen from the national media, of course in my opinion. My question to the Campbell haters...do you agree with this? What are your thoughts, specifically on the first paragraph and how does that factor into your feelings about Campbell?

[Blackest Eyes]

I think the biggest beef with the whiners is that Cambell does not throw a ton of INTs. But when you have a running game, you do not necessarily need to throw TD's. Sure it is awesome, but when your running game is your primary offense, how the hell can you expect the QB to throw a ton of TD's?

It didn't help that Jason got sacked so much last year. The sacks can be attributed to many things but the most glaring issues were the fact that Moss was usually always double teamed and the other WR's could not manage to get open. And then the line was horrible with pass blocking. Now, if the WR's could get open, the line wouldn't have to block as long and then Jason wouldn't have to hold on to the ball so long and deal with guys trying to rip his head off.

Yes, the QB is always the most scrutinized, but look at the larger folks. Football is a team sport and if one guy does not do his job, how can the other guy do his job? Imagine if the line sucked at run blocking. Would you all be saying that Portis sucks? Most likely. Yes, good players make good plays when it counts but I would like to see Peyton Manning or Tom Brady come and make some passes in Jason's situation. I think the results would be similar to Jason's.

Fact is, Jason has 1 year left on his contract and the guy is working his ass off. He deserves this year to prove that he is worth a new contract. If he fails, then we continue our search. If he succeeds, I hope he continues to improve and take us to a Super Bowl. We could be a lot worse off. We could have Tarvaris Jackson. :doh:

[Box76]

Cutler player 8 games (yes, half the schedule) against teams in the bottom 8 defensively last year and the highest ranked defensive team he played was Tampa Bay at #9.

Campbell on the other hand played 8 games against the top 8 defenses in the league and 6 games against the top 4 (not including the skins D).

If you take those games Campbell played against the steelers, ravens, giants, etc. and substitute in multiple games against the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers (surprisingly ranked #25 defensively last year) I'm sure his stats would look much more comparable to Cutlers.


Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!

4 Touchdowns!




Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.

[littleskins]

That quote is what I been preaching to anyone who would listen and many who wouldn't.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm not becoming a Campbell hater, but I'm not focusing too much on the first or second half of the season. They're like polar extremes. I'd much rather talk about what Campbell talked about the other day - it was his first year in the system and so he didn't have command of the playbook and so he couldn't get all bossy about the routes and who's doing what right and such.

What I'm expecting from him is that no matter how much of the playbook Zorn expects him to have memorized, he should have it all down by now and so we should be able to start seeing some real convincing results.

[Blackest Eyes]

Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!

4 Touchdowns!




Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.


And how many INTs did Jason throw in these games? How many turnovers were there on offense? How many TD's did we score on the ground in these games? How many sacks did the line allow in these games? How did the defense play in these games? How did the WRs play in these games?

You can't put a TEAM game solely on one player.

[littleskins]

Everyone can talk to they're blue in the face about what happened, me included, but this is his last shot. No excuses, no matter how real or relevant they are. He has to win if he has any shot at staying a redskin.

[da#1skinsfan]

Everyone can talk to they're blue in the face about what happened, me included, but this is his last shot. No excuses, no matter how real or relevant they are. He has to win if he has any shot at staying a redskin.

everyone agrees there too.

its the people who have been calling for his head that we dont understand.

the guy is in a contract year. he has one more to show hes a bigtime nfl qb. if he fails, we move on. if he succeeds, we feel a lot better about 2010 and certainly about 2009 while he flourishes.

this is the position we're in, and it is THE best position possible especially considering Colt's promising (but vague) action last preseason.

[1972FAN]

THANK YOU!

STFU for all that wanted Cutler... he is just a whiny crying biatch...:hysterical:

And your an adult? thank goodness we have a intelligent post of reasoning. lol

[skinsnut18231977]

I think the biggest beef with the whiners is that Cambell does not throw a ton of INTs. But when you have a running game, you do not necessarily need to throw TD's. Sure it is awesome, but when your running game is your primary offense, how the hell can you expect the QB to throw a ton of TD's?

It didn't help that Jason got sacked so much last year. The sacks can be attributed to many things but the most glaring issues were the fact that Moss was usually always double teamed and the other WR's could not manage to get open. And then the line was horrible with pass blocking. Now, if the WR's could get open, the line wouldn't have to block as long and then Jason wouldn't have to hold on to the ball so long and deal with guys trying to rip his head off.

Yes, the QB is always the most scrutinized, but look at the larger folks. Football is a team sport and if one guy does not do his job, how can the other guy do his job? Imagine if the line sucked at run blocking. Would you all be saying that Portis sucks? Most likely. Yes, good players make good plays when it counts but I would like to see Peyton Manning or Tom Brady come and make some passes in Jason's situation. I think the results would be similar to Jason's.

Fact is, Jason has 1 year left on his contract and the guy is working his ass off. He deserves this year to prove that he is worth a new contract. If he fails, then we continue our search. If he succeeds, I hope he continues to improve and take us to a Super Bowl. We could be a lot worse off. We could have Tarvaris Jackson. :doh:

Well put...as i stated in the beginning this 'who's better' stuff is rediculous...i understand the trade talk is over and im probably gonna get my wish of seeing Campbell play another season but again why are we as skins' fans so fanatical over change..???

Hail!!!

[Box76]

And how many INTs did Jason throw in these games? How many turnovers were there on offense? How many TD's did we score on the ground in these games? How many sacks did the line allow in these games? How did the defense play in these games? How did the WRs play in these games?

You can't put a TEAM game solely on one player.



I think you might want to re-read the post I was responding to. I destroyed the premise that Cutler's stats were inflated due to the level of competition he was facing. When Campbell faced similiar oppenents he floundered.
Cutler had a terrible D, a great wr on one side(with constant double teams) and a rookie on the other. He had a soup line at rb all year yet he destroyed weak teams. I would expect JC, who had more support to put up equal or better numbers, regardless.
No matter how you try, you nor anyone else can defend 13tds in 16 games started.

[Peregrine]

Wow, good post Bubba. Those are honestly some pretty said stats by Cutler in the redzone, but I guess it goes to show you that Denver scored a lot from big plays outside of it, so that made him look better. I think hes a fine QB and all, but I do think people give him too much credit.

As for the OP, your stats are off. I had done the math earlier and if JC attempts as many passes as Cutler he actually ends up with 3950 yards, 16 TDs and 7 INTs. YPA is the "yards per attempt" not "yards per completion", so you dont have to factor completion percentage in at all.

[ciresolstice]

when it comes to one test, Cutler scores a much higher grade then Campbell and that's the "eyeball" test.

Case in point? Through all this trade talk and all of the highlights been shown on NFL Network and ESPN you see Cutler throwing darts in the redzone for TD's. Then there's Campbell between the 20's, stalling, again.

All of us want Campbell to succeed, but many of us don't see it happening.



Echos how I feel, want him to elevate and reach that next level but not much makes me feel he will. Here's to hoping!

[Peregrine]

Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!
4 Touchdowns!

Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.


Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!
Oh, and 6 interceptions.
I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

[HBnotBlades]

Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!

4 Touchdowns!


Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.


Jezzy Crezzy...


I think you might want to re-read the post I was responding to. I destroyed the premise that Cutler's stats were inflated due to the level of competition he was facing. .

Holy lack of logic batman!

Saying that Campbell didn't throw many touchdowns against some of the lower rung teams on our schedule in no way proves that Cutler's stats weren't inflated by playing a significant portion of his schedule against the worst defenses in the league. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Nothing at all. Not only did you not "destroy" the premise, you didn't even present a rational argument against it.

Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention:

TDs: 4
INTS: 0
AVG QB RT: 98.4
AVG Comp %: 66.5

I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats.

[rdskns n 05]

The one thing that no one seems to think about is the division we play in........... No doubt the toughest in the NFL. I think the numbers could be manipulated in any way. Look, the bottom line Skins tried to get Cutler; it didn't happened, Campbell has handled it like a pro. Would I like to see him have more desire? Hell YES.... Let's hope he will be more comfortable this year and he turns into the QB we ALL have waited for.

[ExoDus84]

Cutler player 8 games (yes, half the schedule) against teams in the bottom 8 defensively last year and the highest ranked defensive team he played was Tampa Bay at #9.

Campbell on the other hand played 8 games against the top 8 defenses in the league and 6 games against the top 4 (not including the skins D).

If you take those games Campbell played against the steelers, ravens, giants, etc. and substitute in multiple games against the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers (surprisingly ranked #25 defensively last year) I'm sure his stats would look much more comparable to Cutlers.

Yep. Cutler took advantage of weak defenses. Lets see how badly Campbell torched the weak defenses he played last season.

1) Rams: 28th Ranked defense
a) Campbell: 18/26, 208 yards, 0 TD 0 INT

2) Browns: 26th Ranked Defense
a) Campbell: 14/23, 164 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

3) Seattle: 30th Ranked Defense
a) CampbelL: 20/33, 206 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

4) Detroit: 32nd ranked, last in NFL
a) Campbell: 23/28, 328 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

5) New Orleans: 23rd ranked
a) Campbell: 24/36, 321 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

So, he didnt exactly light up the weak defenses he played. His only 300 yard games came against detroit and new orleans, but he still could only muster 1 TD pass against those wretched defenses, and failed to throw one against the woeful rams. I'm glad he didnt throw any INT's versus those powerhouses, but it should not have been hard to throw for at least 2 TD's against teams like detroit and seattle.

[ExoDus84]

Jezzy Crezzy...



Holy lack of logic batman!

Saying that Campbell didn't throw many touchdowns against some of the lower rung teams on our schedule in no way proves that Cutler's stats weren't inflated by playing a significant portion of his schedule against the worst defenses in the league. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Nothing at all. Not only did you not "destroy" the premise, you didn't even present a rational argument against it.

Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention:

TDs: 4
INTS: 0
AVG QB RT: 98.4
AVG Comp %: 66.5

I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats.

An average of 1 TD per game versus some of the worst defenses in the league, and you consider that pretty good?

Man, how low our level of expectations have fallen over the years. :doh:

[STBonecrusher21]

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!
Oh, and 6 interceptions.
I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

Funny how people how people have conveniently ignored this post.

[ExoDus84]

Campbell Supporters, chew on this!!

You can break down JC's season into 2 parts. I'm not talking about the 6-2, and then the 2-6. I'm talking about the first 4 weeks, and the last 12 weeks. Lets take a gander.

**First 4 weeks**
He was playing pretty well. He didnt play well versus the giants, but that's to be expected on opening day. His record during this span was 3-1, and he had thrown for 6 TD's and 0 INT's in these first 4 games. Extrapolating his TD numbers, he'd have thrown for 24 TD's over a 16 game schedule. Not bad.

**Last 12 weeks**
This is really where his season started to unravel. Not at 6-2, but at 3-1. As it turns out campbell threw almost 50% of his entire seasons TD passes in the first 4 games. Here are his stats the last 12 weeks:

Record: 5-7
TD's: 7
INT's: 6
YPG: 197.25

So, he averaged 1 TD every 1.7 games over the final 12 weeks, and had a losing record over the majority of the season. I'm not sure why things started to fall apart. A combination of opposing defenses getting film on zorn and knowning how to stop him, and the lack of proper adjustments and some strange playcalling contributed. But, as evidenced by how our offense played over the final 12 weeks, poor quarterback play was obviously a part of it.

[bubba9497]

Yep. Cutler took advantage of weak defenses. Lets see how badly Campbell torched the weak defenses he played last season.

1) Rams: 28th Ranked defense
a) Campbell: 18/26, 208 yards, 0 TD 0 INT

2) Browns: 26th Ranked Defense
a) Campbell: 14/23, 164 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

3) Seattle: 30th Ranked Defense
a) CampbelL: 20/33, 206 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

4) Detroit: 32nd ranked, last in NFL
a) Campbell: 23/28, 328 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

5) New Orleans: 23rd ranked
a) Campbell: 24/36, 321 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

So, he didnt exactly light up the weak defenses he played. His only 300 yard games came against detroit and new orleans, but he still could only muster 1 TD pass against those wretched defenses, and failed to throw one against the woeful rams. I'm glad he didnt throw any INT's versus those powerhouses, but it should not have been hard to throw for at least 2 TD's against teams like detroit and seattle.


What? :hysterical:

4-1 record (should have been 5-0 if not for a freak play, and Torrence allowing a desperation throw after JC lead a go ahead score),

two 300 yard games, four 200 yard+ games,

4 td 0 Int,

all over 60% comp.,

2 100+QB rating, 4 90+ QB rating (88.7 was his lowest QB rating)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/jcc-1.png

Also in each game we rushed a lot and controlled the clock, (except Cleveland).. which was our offensive game plan... run, short passes, control the ball, let our defense hold them.

NO 34:14 TOP, 31 rushes/36 passes

STL 31:00 TOP, 31 rushes/26 passes

Clev 28:52 TOP, 36 rushes/23 passes

DET 35:45 TOP, 33 rushes/28 passes

SEA 38:27 TOP, 41 rushes/33 passes

[Forehead]

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!
Oh, and 6 interceptions.
I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

This one needs to be quoted again. The Campbell bashers are ignoring it.

I'm a firm Campbell supporter, and I'll be very interested to see how this year goes. He's working hard, working out with the team, etc., etc. Whether you're pro-Campbell or anti-Campbell, he is going to be out QB this season barring injury, and I hope everyone on this board is actually going to root for him to succeed, rather than hoping he fails just so they can say they were right.

[ExoDus84]

What? :hysterical:

4-1 record (should have been 5-0 if not for a freak play, and Torrence allowing a desperation throw after JC lead a go ahead score),

two 300 yard games, four 200 yard+ games,

4 td 0 Int,

all over 60% comp.,

2 100+QB rating, 4 90+ QB rating (88.7 was his lowest QB rating)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/jcc-1.png

Also in each game we rushed a lot and controlled the clock, (etc Cleveland).. which was our offensive game plan... run, short passes, control the ball, let our defense hold them.

NO 34:14 TOP, 31 rushes/36 passes

STL 31:00 TOP, 31 rushes/26 passes

Clev 28:52 TOP, 36 rushes/23 passes

DET 35:45 TOP, 33 rushes/28 passes

SEA 38:27 TOP, 41 rushes/33 passes

I'm glad QB rating is so important. Rex grossman has had some incredible games QB rating wise...maybe we should sign him? In all those games, we managed to scrape by with a win. We were run heavy, but campbell still was averaging 30 passing attempts per game. Furthermore, portis was very effective in those games, which should have made it quite a bit easier to get the passing game going. He still didnt light it up against those teams, and we didnt blow any of them out; 5 point win vs. Saints; 2 points loss to the rams; 3 point win against the browns; 3 point win against the saints. Our defense played well in all those games, so I really cant understand if Campbell was such a force, and portis was running wild, why this **** offense still could barely beat those terrible teams?

[skinsn26]

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!
Oh, and 6 interceptions.
I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

Cherry picking here, no doubt about it.

You include the 27th ranked D (Oakland) and the 24th ranked (Atlanta), but you leave out the 26th ranked D (Cleveland)??

Why? Because both cutler and Jason played this team?

Cutler: 447 Yards, 3 Tds 1 Int
Campbell: 164 yards 1 Td 0 Int



Ps. Your stat is just simply false.

Sept 8 vs Oakland: Cutler 2 tds
Dec 7 vs KC: Cutler 2 tds

2+2 = 4.....and i dont gotta add in any other games

Or how about:

Sept 14....4 Tds vs SD

[skinsn26]

This one needs to be quoted again. The Campbell bashers are ignoring it.

I'm a firm Campbell supporter, and I'll be very interested to see how this year goes. He's working hard, working out with the team, etc., etc. Whether you're pro-Campbell or anti-Campbell, he is going to be out QB this season barring injury, and I hope everyone on this board is actually going to root for him to succeed, rather than hoping he fails just so they can say they were right.


The stat is being overlooked because it is false.

I could say in 1 game vs SD, 1 vs Oak, and 1 vs KC, cutler passed for 8 TDs.....its a cherry picked stat

[skinsn26]

Funny how people how people have conveniently ignored this post.


Again, Cutler did not pass for just 3 tds against Oak, KC, and SD combined. That is false. He passed for 4tds in 1 game against Oak.

[coolbeans]

I apologize if this is long winded....

Here we go...

Campbell threw 110 less passes than Cutler. Of that Cutler threw for 4,526 yards in '08 compared to 3,245 for Campbell. If you project that out at Campbells' average yards per pass of 6.41 it would of been 3,681 for the extra 110 pass attempts at his 62.3 completion rate(roughly).

Now less we forget that our offensive systems relies upon short 5 to 10 yard completions with an average recieving corp.

Now if you extend everything else out it would mean that Campbell would have an additional 3 td's and NO interceptions out of 616 pass attempts....not amazing but not bad either in a first year led offense.

Now add together the weaker AFC versus the stronger NFC(not to mentions the EAST..) sounds solid to me?? Also add the fact that Cutler has been in the same system for a couple of seasons longer too.

In my opinion does this sound like someone whom we should be throwing the towel in on??? Remember it took several seasons for Eli to come into his own. Why are we as Skins' fans so hell-bent on turnover??? Colt B.? Cutler? When does it end...come on guys and gals!!

I've been a Skins' fan since I was 10 years old(32 now) and I live in New York and even I can see this.

Snyder and Cerreto have an obligation as mis-guided as it may be to keep the team profitable and winning. Coming from there prospective I can see why they would try the smoke and mirrors to acquire Cutler. It doesn't make it right or even the ethically correct way to say to Campbell..."We like you but we think we have a better chance with him"...but it is the business. Snyder will not change ...he will continue to make a big splash as with Jerry Jones its who they are. I'm glad I'm not a fan of a small market team though...lol. All I'm saying is as many mediorce and fustrating seasons we've had I can see why the front-office would pull the trigger on this.

But as a Skins' fan from 360 miles away I can see giving Campbell a chance to succeed is in our best interest.

Oh and one other thing for you Nay-Sayers out there...

Cutler was sacked 11 times last season....any takers on how many times Campbell was sacked??????

38 FREAKIN times!!!...come on does anyone see what platform Campbell would have been on is you throw 27 less sacks into the afe-forementioned stats??? My opinion it would have blown them out of the water!!!

Any thoughs??

Hail!!!:logo:

I have some thoughts. One guy was traded for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a starting caliber QB, the other couldn't be given away for a measly 2nd round pick. Now I'll let you figure out which one is better and by how much in the eyes of the guys who do it for a living.

[elkabong82]

I have some thoughts. One guy was traded for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a starting caliber QB, the other couldn't be given away for a measly 2nd round pick. Now I'll let you figure out which one is better and by how much in the eyes of the guys who do it for a living.

You mean the same guys who let that great franchise QB get away? And they value Orton?

But hey, why argue any stats or make a valid case for your opinion when you can just be lazy and use speculation (us trying to trade JC to another team for picks hasn't been confirmed, us talking to the Broncos about Cutler has)?

[elkabong82]

Again, Cutler did not pass for just 3 tds against Oak, KC, and SD combined. That is false. He passed for 4tds in 1 game against Oak.

and threw 4 picks in his 2nd game against Oakland, you know, the one near the end of the season the Broncos needed to win to stay ahead of the Chargers. I think that guy only looked at those games though, instead of all 6, because TD and INT totals should be higher.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

In 1983, with John Riggins setting the then-NFL record for TDs scored in a season (and 30 Rushing Tds total, Joe Theismann had the following numbers:

276 of 459 for 60.1 CMP (that era is a little different so that's actually pretty good)
3714 yards 29 TDs and 11 INTs (oh no, INTs!!!)
His YPA was 8.1

Here's the kicker for the people who idealize the past:

he was sacked THIRTY FOUR TIMES. (percentage of 6.9)
Jason was sacked at 7 percent and you can't tell me his release alone doesn't account for a few of those compared to Joey T.


Proving yet again that you can face pressure (though I'm sure his running around led to a few sacks) and still deliver.

It's nothing but excuse after excuse and why has Jason's YPA never been higher than 6.5? Todd Collins had the same team and was in the 8+ range.

Jason was sacked at only a rate of 4.8% in 2007. Then Todd comes in and is sacked at a rate of 6.3% and thrives! And the team looks like it doesn't ABSOLUTELY NEED a brilliant second wideout who is 6-9 and runs 4.2. Odd isn't it?

Why is it across disparate offensive systems, Jason's numbers look almost identical and the issues are still the same?

[skinsn26]

and threw 4 picks in his 2nd game against Oakland, you know, the one near the end of the season the Broncos needed to win to stay ahead of the Chargers. I think that guy only looked at those games though, instead of all 6, because TD and INT totals should be higher.

Yup and I totally agree with you. I was just responding to say those stats were cherry picked and not exactly true, hence why they were being 'overlooked'

To say 'cutler only threw 3 tds against OAK, SD, and KC combined' is not true without further elaboration

[1972FAN]

Again, Cutler did not pass for just 3 tds against Oak, KC, and SD combined. That is false. He passed for 4tds in 1 game against Oak.

Yeah really funny how they distort the facts so you'll be convince to be a homer for Campbell, how sad :(

[elkabong82]

Yeah, why didn't JC perform like Theismann or Collins? I mean, Campbell had been in the league 3 seasons when he started in '08, Theismann had been in the league since 1971 when he had that performance in '83, and Collins had been in the same Saunders system for over a decade. I mean, a QB starting his 2nd full season should be able to do what guys in the league for a decade or more are doing right?

[coolbeans]

You mean the same guys who let that great franchise QB get away? And they value Orton?

But hey, why argue any stats or make a valid case for your opinion when you can just be lazy and use speculation (us trying to trade JC to another team for picks hasn't been confirmed, us talking to the Broncos about Cutler has)?


I'd consider the skins lucky to get a 4th for Quincy I mean Jason Campbell. That tells me the entire league, including the skins, sees Cutler as far superior to Campbell. Denver wanted Orton and Quinn before Campbell. Thats about all I need to know to form my opinion.

[Elessar78]

Stats are pointless. Especially in this case since both teams finished 8-8. (Arguably, the Broncos might have finished 7-9 if a certain game had been called correctly. And we could be 10-6 or 11-5 had it been for a couple of different plays.) Plus there are in game situations, was Denver trailing in more games requiring more throws? How was their running game compared to the ours? Did it require them to throw more?

[veteranskinsfan]

Campbell supporters in the Cutler debate need to look at how many touchdowns Campbell threw last season in the fourth quarter and then go see how many touchdowns Cutler threw in the fourth quarter for the year. Most of us would like to see Campbell have a banner year this season but he has to perform on the field under pressure. The two rookie quarterbacks for Baltimore and Atlanta really showed NFL fans that some quarterbacks do not need five years before they can lead their teams into the playoffs.

[thesubmittedone]

Unfortunately, as a Campbell backer, I feel like this pro/anti Campbell talk has us drawing lines in the sand. It seems like whatever anybody's willing to say thats "pro" Campbell, the pros cheer and the anti's screan. ANd if the anti's say something against Campbell, the pro's scream and the anit's scream.

It really seems like reality means even less on Extremeskins now than ever before.


There it is. Great point... however, I want you to answer this honestly. Do you think the anti-Campbell crowd is louder or the pro-Campbell crowd is louder?

I honestly feel that the majority of the pro-Campbell crowd simply want to see what he can do this year, believe he can become an elite QB, yet are willing to accept that it simply may not happen. It's more about belief in his abilities than excessive glorification. I feel like the vast majority of the pro-Campbell crowd certainly accept he needs to play better, and that he's not elite yet. At least that's what I see from most of those who support Campbell when debating the anti-Campbell crowd.

Whereas when you look at the majority of the anti-Campbell crowd they're excessive in their negativity towards Campbell, and speak as if there is absolutely no hope that he will ever amount to anything. They have absolutely no belief in his abilities, and push aside any of the numerous positives Campbell has shown thus far.

For example, when bubba posts those stats that actually show Campbell had redzone numbers that could hold his own and in some cases were better when compared to Cutler, it's ignored completely and glossed over.

So, back to the question... who do you think is more excessive, or "louder" in their speech? Who is further from reality?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

and Collins had been in the same Saunders system for over a decade. I mean, a QB starting his 2nd full season should be able to do what guys in the league for a decade or more are doing right?

Either you're good or you're not. And if you're AWFUL while other people face similar situations and they are all-time great (even Collins YPA and OFF player of the month and 4-0 record is pretty historical) then maybe the problem is YOU.

But hey, why let the fact that Todd Collins hadn't played in a decade interfere with these brilliant analyses?! he got practice time! (though not that much since backups don't get THAT many reps)

If you're a first round 'franchise QB' you shouldn't need to look so bad compared to people who faced your situations. At some point you actually look like a competent QB on your own.

I think Jason can develop still but it's going to take more time than we can afford to give him with the likes of Portis and Moss approaching the end of their shelf-life.

[bubba9497]

Cutler threw in the fourth quarter for the year


you mean when the broncos were behind?

Cutler scored a lot in garbage time

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/cutler-1-1.png

not listed when behind by more than 16 points, 2 td 3 ints. 5 sacks

opposed to the Redskins who were leading or in close scoring games every week, many times running out the clock in the 4th

[Thinking Skins]

There it is. Great point... however, I want you to answer this honestly. Do you think the anti-Campbell crowd is louder or the pro-Campbell crowd is louder?

I honestly feel that the majority of the pro-Campbell crowd simply want to see what he can do this year, believe he can become an elite QB, yet are willing to accept that it simply may not happen. It's more about belief in his abilities than excessive glorification. I feel like the vast majority of the pro-Campbell crowd certainly accept he needs to play better, and that he's not elite yet. At least that's what I see from most of those who support Campbell when debating the anti-Campbell crowd.

Whereas when you look at the majority of the anti-Campbell crowd they're excessive in their negativity towards Campbell, and speak as if there is absolutely no hope that he will ever amount to anything. They have absolutely no belief in his abilities, and push aside any of the numerous positives Campbell has shown thus far.

For example, when bubba posts those stats that actually show Campbell had redzone numbers that could hold his own and in some cases were better when compared to Cutler, it's ignored completely and glossed over.

So, back to the question... who do you think is more excessive, or "louder" in their speech? Who is further from reality?

I honestly stopped reading through the threads, so I can't know who's more excessive. Both are reaching new extremes though. I saw the Campbell is Montana thread, there is the Theisman stuff, there's all the "I want Campbell as our starting QB because he can answer questions", etc. Its reaching points I cant or just am tired of defending.

The anti crowd is bad too, with the "nobody wants Campbell", "Snyder doesn't like him", "he's a crybaby if he needs fan support", etc. I expect certain things from Shilsu, GHH, McD5, etc, but its really taxing to get into these arguments that are even more extreme than what they normally bring up. If somebody doesn't feel that he's the right guy - there's nothing we can do to convince them until Campbell actually plays well next year. Hopefully they'll change their minds. If not, then welcome to being a QB in DC.

I'm really just ready for this season to start. I pray that Snyder doesn't destroy the team before then...or maybe if he destroys the team, I won't be forced to root for Snyder to succeed...hmm....interesting...

[mbws]

And how many INTs did Jason throw in these games? How many turnovers were there on offense? How many TD's did we score on the ground in these games? How many sacks did the line allow in these games? How did the defense play in these games? How did the WRs play in these games?

You can't put a TEAM game solely on one player.

49ers while not a great team did become a better team after Singletary took over in the 2nd half of the season.

[Section123OnSundays]

thanks for those projected stats and "what ifs". But there are exactly that, projections and "what ifs". You people obsessed with numbers know NOTHING about the game of football. For those of us who do know the game can clearly see Campbell will always be average. You can throw all the numbers, projections, and calculus formulas you want at me but it doesn't matter. Campbell just isn't the next Williams like Gibbs thought.

[mbws]

What? :hysterical:

4-1 record (should have been 5-0 if not for a freak play, and Torrence allowing a desperation throw after JC lead a go ahead score),

two 300 yard games, four 200 yard+ games,

4 td 0 Int,

all over 60% comp.,

2 100+QB rating, 4 90+ QB rating (88.7 was his lowest QB rating)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/jcc-1.png

Also in each game we rushed a lot and controlled the clock, (except Cleveland).. which was our offensive game plan... run, short passes, control the ball, let our defense hold them.

NO 34:14 TOP, 31 rushes/36 passes

STL 31:00 TOP, 31 rushes/26 passes

Clev 28:52 TOP, 36 rushes/23 passes

DET 35:45 TOP, 33 rushes/28 passes

SEA 38:27 TOP, 41 rushes/33 passes




How dare you factor in the running part of the game when it doesn't support the argument that JC is no good.

:rolleyes:

[HawaiianTime]

Cutler scored a lot in garbage time

opposed to the Redskins who were leading or in close scoring games every week, many times running out the clock in the 4th


Since you like stats, can you show us when Campbell did most of his scoring? Not to include Portis running the ball please.

[Capt Rich Fla]

Campbell yayers, chew on Leftwich. pfft:hysterical:

[Santana_89]

Campbell yayers, chew on Leftwich. pfft:hysterical:


:rotflmao: :rotflmao: Ouch!

[bubba9497]

Since you like stats, can you show us when Campbell did most of his scoring? Not to include Portis running the ball please.

look it up

http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/profile?id=CAM375235

[Arsenic]

I have gray hair from watching Campbell hold the ball way too long.

The majority of his sacks are his own fault.

As for your "IF THEN" statement: Its painfully obvious that JC doesn't hit his recievers in stride.

Zorn knows QB's. If our Head Coach thought JC17 was going to be the next Steve Young, none of this "searching" would be taking place.

NO ONE is sold on Jason Campbell and theres good reason not to be. Its hard not to like his professionalism but the guy just doesn't have "it".

Our rookie (CB) showed him up in pre-season, imo, playing with scrubs.

I'll happily eat crow. I'd love to see him have a great 2009. However, even then, I'd be hesitant to believe he's able to repeat that performance, based on his past production (or lack thereof).

[Blackest Eyes]

I have gray hair from watching Campbell hold the ball way too long.

The majority of his sacks are his own fault.

As for your "IF THEN" statement: Its painfully obvious that JC doesn't hit his recievers in stride.

Zorn knows QB's. If our Head Coach thought JC17 was going to be the next Steve Young, none of this "searching" would be taking place.

NO ONE is sold on Jason Campbell and theres good reason not to be. Its hard not to like his professionalism but the guy just doesn't have "it".

Our rookie (CB) showed him up in pre-season, imo, playing with scrubs.

I'll happily eat crow. I'd love to see him have a great 2009. However, even then, I'd be hesitant to believe he's able to repeat that performance, based on his past production (or lack thereof).

You also have to remember who our FO consists of. If it was any other owner/GM thingy I don't know if we would have been searching for a new QB. I think Dan & Vinny sometimes do things regardless of what the coach wants.

[fnkdctr(007)]

Be happy we don"t bring Jeff George in he wants to play.

[knowledge316]

i'm guessing the JC backers are happy with the 14 points a game...when a offense is that terrible, you have to look at the QB...you can't expect to change the other 10 players around to fix the one player

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention:

TDs: 4
INTS: 0
AVG QB RT: 98.4
AVG Comp %: 66.5

I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats.

I couldn't resist.

Here's another stat for you.

2-3 record against said teams :)

[Thirtyfive2seven]

you mean when the broncos were behind?

Cutler scored a lot in garbage time

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/cutler-1-1.png

not listed when behind by more than 16 points, 2 td 3 ints. 5 sacks

opposed to the Redskins who were leading or in close scoring games every week, many times running out the clock in the 4th

Can you post the same stats of Campbell in garbage time?

[Box76]

Jezzy Crezzy...



Holy lack of logic batman!

Saying that Campbell didn't throw many touchdowns against some of the lower rung teams on our schedule in no way proves that Cutler's stats weren't inflated by playing a significant portion of his schedule against the worst defenses in the league. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Nothing at all. Not only did you not "destroy" the premise, you didn't even present a rational argument against it.

Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention:



TDs: 4
INTS: 0
AVG QB RT: 98.4
AVG Comp %: 66.5

I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats.


The 0-16 Lions scored more points than the Skins. JC threw 13 Tds and played in 16 games. JC was given 1 and half years to learn on the bench, 2 years of worry free "You are our starter" not looking over the shoulder, the 4th ranked D to keep games close, a top notch running game to take some pressure off and now we get the same merry go round spin doctor garbage telling us he is getting better crap. Yeah, he is getting better all right 10-12-13 tds. Real improvement.:doh:
At this rate he will be a 10yr. vet before we get a 20td throwing qb. The reason I have soured on him is that I dont think I can take watching the D and CP give it their all only to be let down because our qb cant make accurate reads and deliver the ball on time. I say give Colt a chance. Yeah, I heard the he isnt ready rhetoric and guess what? I dont buy it. JC got his chance in his second year. Getting drafted in the 1st round does not mean you are no more ready to start than someone drafted in the 6th. Let the players performance be the judge. Have an open competition.
Nothing is guaranteed to anyone in this world.

[HawaiianTime]

look it up

http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/profile?id=CAM375235


:D I was hoping you'd do it for me. :(

Quarters Att Comp Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int 1st 1st% 20+ Sck Rate
1st Quarter 119 71 59.7 602 5.1 23 1 1 33 27.7 3 12 72.2
2nd Quarter 154 97 63.0 1,034 6.7 53 5 0 55 35.7 9 9 93.4
3rd Quarter 102 69 67.6 711 7.0 50 3 3 34 33.3 9 7 85.0
4th Quarter 131 78 59.5 898 6.9 67 4 2 40 30.5 13 10 84.1
So here's Campbells stats by qtrs.

When exactly is it considered to be garbage time again?

[STBonecrusher21]

Campbell yayers, chew on Leftwich. pfft:hysterical:


:rotflmao: :rotflmao: Ouch!

Byron, if we liked him enough, would have been offered a 1 year, minimum deal contract to act as JC's backup. That whole thing was pretty well known.

Not sure why you'd bring this up and laugh about it.

[HawaiianTime]

Byron, if we liked him enough, would have been offered a 1 year, minimum deal contract to act as JC's backup. That whole thing was pretty well known.

Not sure why you'd bring this up and laugh about it.


I know for myself, I don't believe anything the FO has to say anymore. The 1-2 sentence statement they made about discussing their efforts with Campbell about pursuing Cutler after the fact speaks volumes. How can anybody trust that they were trying to bring BL in as Campbells backup? I may not be High on Campbell, but I'd have to be completely stoned off my rocker to want Leftwich. That's all I'm saying.

By the way, STB21, you're not cracking the jokes/whip like you use to. Everything going alright?

[STBonecrusher21]

By the way, STB21, you're not cracking the jokes/whip like you use to. Everything going alright?

:D

In due time, good sir, in due time.

[DCDiesel44]

Upgrade the O-line, Thomas and/or Kelly should have much better seasons as they continue to develop and Campbell should have a better season than last combined with the fact that he'll be a starter in the same offense/head coach for the second straight year. I'll see how he does this season before I make up my mind on whether I think he's our quarterback of the future or not. Another mediocre season and I'm afraid he's fresh out of excuses as to why he's not successful. But until then, all I or any of us can and should do is hope for the best.

[zskins]

Cutler was sacked 11 times last season....any takers on how many times Campbell was sacked??????

38 FREAKIN times!!!...


And how many of those sacks were attributed to holding on to the ball too long???:doh:

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

And how many of those sacks were attributed to holding on to the ball too long???:doh:

Just don't show him Brady 2007 vs. Cassell 2008. He may have a sudden myocardial infarction.

[zskins]

Just don't show him Brady 2007 vs. Cassell 2008. He may have a sudden myocardial infarction.

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

[STBonecrusher21]

And how many of those sacks were attributed to holding on to the ball too long???:doh:


Just don't show him Brady 2007 vs. Cassell 2008. He may have a sudden myocardial infarction.

I don't think you should expect anyone to answer that truthfully without bias.

However, I dont think you should be able to determine that number either. Neither side has a clue.

[HawaiianTime]

I don't think you should expect anyone to answer that truthfully without bias.

However, I dont think you should be able to determine that number either. Neither side has a clue.


Probably closest thing to the truth, especially when it come to this FO. The last week or so seems almost as 1 big April Fools Joke and the FO doesn't know when to stop.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

What really jumps out at me about those numbers is that is that Campbell's two best quarters in terms of yardage are the 2nd and 4th quarters. Furthermore, look at the difference between Campbell in the 1st quarter, and Campbell in the 4th quarter.

3 passes over 20 yards, 5.1 ypa, 1 TD, 1 INT.
4th quarter: 13 passes over 20 yards, 6.9 ypa. 4 TDs, 2 INT.

And this holds true for quarters 2-4. Except for TDs, his stats look great. But he seems to be a really, really bad 1st quarter QB. More to the point, he seems to be a super-conservative 1st quarter QB, and then airs it out a bit more as the game goes on.

What is the cause of this?

[ExoDus84]

:D I was hoping you'd do it for me. :(

Quarters Att Comp Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int 1st 1st% 20+ Sck Rate
1st Quarter 119 71 59.7 602 5.1 23 1 1 33 27.7 3 12 72.2
2nd Quarter 154 97 63.0 1,034 6.7 53 5 0 55 35.7 9 9 93.4
3rd Quarter 102 69 67.6 711 7.0 50 3 3 34 33.3 9 7 85.0
4th Quarter 131 78 59.5 898 6.9 67 4 2 40 30.5 13 10 84.1
So here's Campbells stats by qtrs.

When exactly is it considered to be garbage time again?

Wow.Campbell only had 1 TD in the first quarter all season??? Way to start out fast. :doh:

Oh, and what garbage time? The skins were never ahead by more than 1 score, which kept the passing game as a part of the offense. We were only blown out a few times. In terms of garbage time, the first game of the season versus the giants stand out. That whole game was garbage. Campbell had a good rating for the giants game, IIRC, but if you watched it you'd notice he wasnt very effective at all. Same story for almost all his games.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Campbell will prove all the naysayers wrong. Then he'll threaten to take off in FA just to squeeze more money out of us cause we're jerks. Then he re-signs a very wealthy man.

[nebster21]

The coach did not trust campbell to throw the ball more than 20 yards in the first 6 games. Chew on that.