3rd round pick discussion

[PROSCOUT]

All we have been talking about lately is how bad Jason Campbell is or if Cutler is better and WHO are we taking with that first round pick and should we get Sanchez if he falls to 13 and etc etc etc

I thought that this 3rd round pick which is our next pick, could potentially have a huge impact on next year, and deserves discussion.

Carlos Rogers is a free agent next year, so do we draft a cornerback to develop NOW so that we don't have to worry about that next season?

Or if we draft defensive line in that first round, do we then use that 3rd round pick on a linebacker, knowing full well that Fletcher's career is wrapping up at age 35 and we are thin at linebacker anyway?

Or if we take a linebacker in the first round this year, do we then draft a defensive end speed rusher for situation pass rushes?

Or do we draft a center in the 3rd round and get ready for the departure of Rabach next year?

Or do we even trade the 3rd, along with next years #2, and move up in the 2nd round and get somebody who may have dropped out of the first round?

Wow, lots to discuss, but I think that 3rd round pick can be a critical pick in the future of the Skins if the right decision is made.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

I don't know if he will be there, but I am pretty high on Lawrence Sidbury Jr. out of Richmond. He played against lesser talent, but he played extremely well against him. Another poster had a video of a couple sick spin moves by him.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Lawrence-Sidbury-Jr.php



I think we have to go with Oline in the first or third. either C or OT.

[theboomking]

BPA in a position of need early, BPA in the later rd's. Sidbury would be sick, but would have to slip some to make it to pick #80. Other players I think might slip are Loadholt, Jarron Gilbert, Duke Robinson, Michael Johnson, Victor(Macho) Harris.

I wish we had more picks. I actually think Harris would be a significant upgrade over smoot. He is also a ballhawk, which we could use a little more of, and could contribute right away as a punt returner.

[flexxskins]

Although we have LB needs, I don't believe that just because Fletcher is going to be 35 we should be pressing the panic button yet. Fletcher has shown no signs of slowing down...none. MLB should be the least of our worries right now.

[Playsmart30]

I think we have four way to go with first and third picks
1: 1st RT and 3rd DE/OLB
2: 1st DE and 3rd RT
3: 1st OLD and 3rd RT
4: Trade down

We got to draft a RT with first two pick

[eljeasel]

BPA my man, sit tight and go BPA.

You trade the 1st down though. Look to either late 1st round teams or my preference, multiple 2nds/3rds.

End up with 3-5 picks in the first 100 picks

[PROSCOUT]

Although we have LB needs, I don't believe that just because Fletcher is going to be 35 we should be pressing the panic button yet. Fletcher has shown no signs of slowing down...none. MLB should be the least of our worries right now.

This is always the problem with America. Never thinking ahead. Not to get political but the attitude of "oh, the sun is shining TODAY, so why worry about tomorrow" is why the country is broke. We don't plan We hope.

If you don't make changes in your life, then changes will be made for you, and changes that are made for you are rarely good. All this is leading up to is an explanation of why the Skins are in the shape they are in.

Because the Skins have hoped to get "just one more year" out of Daniels, Griffin, Jansen, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washington, etc, we ended up with the walking wounded and no playoffs. Older veterans bring experience and leadership, but its just a fact that most NFL players don't play at age 35.

I don't know if its 90 percent of NFL players whose career is over at age 35 or if its 95 percent...but I can tell you that if you have an opportunity to replace an NFL player at age 35, and you pass it by, hoping that guy will remain fully functional, you live to regret it OVER 90 percent of the time.

I hope Fletcher goes on to play for 5 more years until 40 at a high level, but HOPE IS NOT A PLAN.

[jtyler42]

Check my sig for what I think we should do in the 3rd...I think it really depends on what we do with the 1st round pick...

[TGI Jef]

This is always the problem with America. Never thinking ahead. Not to get political but the attitude of "oh, the sun is shining TODAY, so why worry about tomorrow" is why the country is broke. We don't plan We hope.

If you don't make changes in your life, then changes will be made for you, and changes that are made for you are rarely good. All this is leading up to is an explanation of why the Skins are in the shape they are in.

Because the Skins have hoped to get "just one more year" out of Daniels, Griffin, Jansen, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washington, etc, we ended up with the walking wounded and no playoffs. Older veterans bring experience and leadership, but its just a fact that most NFL players don't play at age 35.

I don't know if its 90 percent of NFL players whose career is over at age 35 or if its 95 percent...but I can tell you that if you have an opportunity to replace an NFL player at age 35, and you pass it by, hoping that guy will remain fully functional, you live to regret it OVER 90 percent of the time.

I hope Fletcher goes on to play for 5 more years until 40 at a high level, but HOPE IS NOT A PLAN.

a) as far as i know, it still seems that HB Blades will be the guy to replace fletcher eventually if all goes according to plan

b) when you dont have many picks, cant afford to address every need. i would kill for us to get guys to groom to move in at DE, RB, RG, RT, OLB etc.

but its not plausible. simply put, MLB is not a need for us, relatively speaking.

[PROSCOUT]

a) as far as i know, it still seems that HB Blades will be the guy to replace fletcher eventually if all goes according to plan

b) when you dont have many picks, cant afford to address every need. i would kill for us to get guys to groom to move in at DE, RB, RG, RT, OLB etc.

but its not plausible. simply put, MLB is not a need for us, relatively speaking.

Actually EVERY position is a position of need, IF your starter gets injured.
Its about who can you afford to lose and who is coming in as the backup.

I am happy we have Wynn and Daniels sharing that DE slot because neither can make it thorugh a whole season but together, perhaps.

I am happy that Heyer is a young guy and can play right tackle or left tackle and I am happy Dockery is back and can show Rinehardt how guard should be played.

So I won't debate WHICH position is more of a need because all of them are need positions when the ball carrier is headed in that direction. I still think better planning and looking ahead at potential injury is something that we can do better.

[TGI Jef]

Actually EVERY position is a position of need, IF your starter gets injured.
Its about who can you afford to lose and who is coming in as the backup.

I am happy we have Wynn and Daniels sharing that DE slot because neither can make it thorugh a whole season but together, perhaps.

I am happy that Heyer is a young guy and can play right tackle or left tackle and I am happy Dockery is back and can show Rinehardt how guard should be played.

So I won't debate WHICH position is more of a need because all of them are need positions when the ball carrier is headed in that direction. I still think better planning and looking ahead at potential injury is something that we can do better.

i def agree - the reason why the redskins are ALWAYS one injury away from a disaster at virtually every position is the fact that they never hold onto their middle round picks. it is one thing to trade a 2nd round pick here or there. it is another to NEVER have those 3-5 round pick intact. it has just kILLED this team.

but my point was that in this draft, when debatable decisions have been made that have left the team with more holes than picks, it is indeed all relative. and, relatively speaking, mlb is not a need this year, even though it might be in a year where we had the full slate of picks or even more.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

a) as far as i know, it still seems that HB Blades will be the guy to replace fletcher eventually if all goes according to plan

b) when you dont have many picks, cant afford to address every need. i would kill for us to get guys to groom to move in at DE, RB, RG, RT, OLB etc.

but its not plausible. simply put, MLB is not a need for us, relatively speaking.

I agree. HB will be our eventual replacement in the middle. No worries here. Let's go after players we need.

[TGI Jef]

I agree. HB will be our eventual replacement in the middle. No worries here. Let's go after players we need.

i think that HB Blades will be the epitome of why you need to keep those picks.

he might not ever be a star, but he is a solid guy who can start and contribute. that is the kind of guy super bowl teams draft. no need to sign a big name at every position. keep these middle round picks, hope to get lucky with some guys sliding b/c of nit picking (i.e. HB's height) and then plug them in as good, consistent role players.

thats how we will get back to the super bowl.

[flexxskins]

This is always the problem with America. Never thinking ahead. Not to get political but the attitude of "oh, the sun is shining TODAY, so why worry about tomorrow" is why the country is broke. We don't plan We hope.

If you don't make changes in your life, then changes will be made for you, and changes that are made for you are rarely good. All this is leading up to is an explanation of why the Skins are in the shape they are in.

Because the Skins have hoped to get "just one more year" out of Daniels, Griffin, Jansen, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washington, etc, we ended up with the walking wounded and no playoffs. Older veterans bring experience and leadership, but its just a fact that most NFL players don't play at age 35.

I don't know if its 90 percent of NFL players whose career is over at age 35 or if its 95 percent...but I can tell you that if you have an opportunity to replace an NFL player at age 35, and you pass it by, hoping that guy will remain fully functional, you live to regret it OVER 90 percent of the time.

I hope Fletcher goes on to play for 5 more years until 40 at a high level, but HOPE IS NOT A PLAN.Overreact much? Sheesh. "This is always the problem with America"? OMG.

I was making a simple point. I don't really know why you decided to take it there.

I was simply removing one possibility from your list by means of reasonable deduction.

My point is that if we were to use our 1st round pick on a defensive lineman (like you suggested), that would still leave a position to where we do not have a clear cut starter...which is the RT position not being addressed.

Therefore, since we already have a starter at the MLB position (who again, has shown no signs of slowing down at all), then why would we use our 3rd rounder on a MLB and not a RT?

This has nothing to do with "never thinking ahead". My quote had to do with getting the most with what we've got, and addressing our greatest needs.

[elkabong82]

LBer and OL are arguably the 2 deepest positions in this years draft, so I'd say either position is a good bet in the 3rd.

And keep politics out of the stadium, ftw.

[Chump Bailey]

If we cannot trade down thus leaving us without a 2nd or 4th, I think we may have to reach a little.

I would look for:

OL Herman Johnson
DE Kyle Moore
OC Antoine Caldwell
OL Gerald Cadogan
OL Jason Watkins
OLB Tyrone McKenzie
OLB Scott McKillop
CB Mike Mickens
OLB Marcus Freeman
S David Bruton

[gkekoa]

There is a ton of talent at OLB in round 3 for this draft.

[SkinsMaster88]

Remember that Rogers (and Campbell) won't be UFAs if the CBA isn't extended. They will not have had 6 years of playing experience, and hence would fall into the RFA rule put in place with the salary cap-less season in 2010.

Also, due to our limited picks (4 + compensation at end of 7th), each of them becomes more significant. We have three main holes on this team: RT, SLB, LDE. Now, there are plenty of other spots where we can improve, especially in terms of depth. That said, there are backup plans in place for each of those spots if we can't get a starter-ready quality player in the draft.

For RT: It would then become a competition of Jansen/Heyer, where you'd hope that Jansen plays with a massive chip on his shoulder to prove doubters wrong, and Heyer improves with more experience and work on his fundamentals and technique.

For SLB: It would likely go to Blades as of now, since he filled in for Marcus Washington plenty of times last year. Also, there would be newly-signed Robert Thomas and Alfred Fincher in the mix. LB is one of our weakest depth spots as well, IMO.

For LDE: It would come down to a rotation of the experienced vets in Daniels and Wynn, with guys like Jackson and Wilson used on passing downs.

It'll be hard to get good quality upgrades at each of those 3 positions just by the draft with the limited picks we have. We just got to make sure the guys we get can help out the team in the best way possible.

[[[ghost]]]

Depends on what we do with ou 1st Rounder.

If we go Oher or Smith, than we ought to go with a pass rusher, or OLB at #3.

If we go Mauluga or OLB/DE, than we ought to go after Herman Johnson or Duke Robinson.

[dswerdlw]

1. Oher or A. Smith (OT)
3. McKenzie or J. Williams (OLB)
5. Best 4-3 DE or CB
6. whatever we didn't get in the 5th

or

Trade Down

1. T. Jackson or R. Ayers
2. J. Meredith or Loadholt
3. McKenzie or J. Williams
5. Best CB
6. Best interior lineman
7. Best WR

[Wyndorf25]

I'm hoping the Skins can land OT/OG T.J. Lang from Eastern Michigan, especially if the Skins go defense with their 1st round pick:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=79362&draftyear=2009&genpos=OT

From: http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=70938&PT=7&PR=2&type=scouting#scouting

The Good: A former left tackle who has great feet and initial quickness for an interior lineman. Is natural in space and consistently gets around to pull and get out in front on screens. Plays with good anchor strength and natural flexibility. Sits into his stance well on contact and shows the base to handle the bull rush. A natural slider who will be tough to get around in pass protection.
The Bad: Will be forced to make the adjustment to guard at the next level. Isn’t real flexible in pass protection and has a tendency to get too high in his stance when asked to slide laterally. Doesn’t display a strong punch on contact.

From: http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/TJ-Lang.php

Strengths:
Adequate size and bulk...Tough, physical and aggressive...Quick with good mobility...Strong and powerful...Has a great initial punch...Has a fantastic motor and plays to the whistle...Pretty good balance...A hard worker...Can offer some positional versatility...Has lots of experience.

Weaknesses:
'Tweener?...Not a great athlete...Has short arms...Not very light on his feet...Stiff and isn't real agile...Doesn't use his hands well...Has some trouble sustaining blocks...Not a natural knee bender...Limited upside.

Notes:
A three-year starter...Began his college career as a defensive tackle, accumulating 11 tackles and 0.5 for a loss in 11 games...Moved to the offensive line in 2006 and took over the right tackle job...Played left tackle in 2007 and 2008...Named 2nd Team All-MAC as a senior...A classic overachiever who could also project to offensive guard at the next level...Extremely underrated pro prospect with starting potential.

From: http://nflblogs.profootballweekly.com/NFLdraft/2009/03/lang_rising_at_right_time.html
Lang rising at right time

For as overblown as talk of draft prospects' "stocks" rising and falling throughout the year can be, now is the time to be ascending and Eastern Michigan OL T.J. Lang is doing just that. A Combine snub (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/03/eastern_michigan_ot_lang_picki.html), Lang is a converted defensive lineman who manned the left side at EMU. What he lacks in athletic ability, he makes up in physicality and playing demeanor and he will make another conversion in the pros — likely to guard.


Also from Pro Football Weekly's 2009 Draft Guide:
"The Way We See It: A converted defensive tackle and 3-year starter at OLT who plays with the aggression of a ORT or Guard and could wind up being best inside. Has the toughness and physical style to pique the interest of old-school offensive line coaches."

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

I don't know if he will be there, but I am pretty high on Lawrence Sidbury Jr. out of Richmond. He played against lesser talent, but he played extremely well against him. Another poster had a video of a couple sick spin moves by him.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Lawrence-Sidbury-Jr.php



I think we have to go with Oline in the first or third. either C or OT.

I really hope we can get Sidbury in the 3rd round.

[Buford]

The best LINEMAN available. Offensive OR Defensive.

That simple.

[[[ghost]]]

The best LINEMAN available. Offensive OR Defensive.

That simple.

I personally think that if it isn't Orakpo, Smith, or Oher, we should go after lineman in the 1st. Maybin and Brown just don't seem like a good fit to me.

[Laxpunk2006]

Also from Pro Football Weekly's 2009 Draft Guide:
"The Way We See It: A converted defensive tackle and 3-year starter at OLT who plays with the aggression of a ORT or Guard and could wind up being best inside. Has the toughness and physical style to pique the interest of old-school offensive line coaches."

Sounds like a Bugel kind of guy doesn't it?

[TheShredSkinz]

Why doesn't anyone think Heyer will be better. One more yr. with the guys and hitting the weights can only be a good thing. IMO, he didn't play bad last yr.

[SAli457180]

];6311157']Depends on what we do with ou 1st Rounder.

If we go Oher or Smith, than we ought to go with a pass rusher, or OLB at #3.

If we go Mauluga or OLB/DE, than we ought to go after Herman Johnson or Duke Robinson.

Agreed. Personally I think they should go DE with the 1st round if all the big OTs are off the board.

[eljeasel]

Why doesn't anyone think Heyer will be better. One more yr. with the guys and hitting the weights can only be a good thing. IMO, he didn't play bad last yr.

I think Heyer will continue to improve. I dont know if he will be the man at RT for the next 8+ years, but I think hes going to get better all around.

[Thinking Skins]

Why doesn't anyone think Heyer will be better. One more yr. with the guys and hitting the weights can only be a good thing. IMO, he didn't play bad last yr.

Speaking for myself, I do think Heyer will be better. But I'd still like to see us address RT because I want somebody challenging Heyer and Jansen. I want to plan for the worse case (which is that Heyer gets hurt again and Jansen is the same old bum).

If Heyer develops into a starter - great, then the guy we draft can be groomed to take over for Samuels. If Heyer doesn't, then the guy we draft can compete for a starting spot right now.

[#98QBKiller]

If we don't trade down I have us taking an offensive tackle @ #13 and taking BPA between LB and DE in the 3rd. Someone like Lawrence Sidbury or Marcus Freeman.

I do not think we need to go corner though, I'm pretty confident we'll lock up Carlos especially if he has a good showing early on this year.

[Thinking Skins]

I've got a strong feeling that we'll do something crazy with our third rounder - something like a WR or a DB (and honestly, if Kelly's knees are as bad as some imagine, this may not be too bad of an idea).

Somebody's gonna slip and be too tempting for us to pass up. Just like Fred Davis was.

Its cool cause as PROSCOUT said, having depth is all about planning ahead. Its all about finding quality players to be backups who can be good starters too. We can make arguments about which spot on the team we need the most help at, but if we can find a stud player as our depth, then i guess its cool.

Its all about trusting our scouts.

[cphil006]

Hard to tell who will be available in the third round, but I know there will be some good LBs and OLs...

[cphil006]

The best LINEMAN available. Offensive OR Defensive.

That simple.

Good. Maybe LB, too.

[jflow78]

There is a ton of talent at OLB in round 3 for this draft.

I agree. I wish Herman Johnson would fall to the 3rd, but I doubt it. As long as we've answered our OL problem at that point, either with 13 or a trade.

I think the Skins could find a great OLB in the 3rd, maybe a DL with potential too, but I would guess the LB selection will be better at this stage of the draft.

[cjbrown]

Get a good OLINEMAN with the first. Then, trade next years 2nd & get two thirds this year. package the third & fifth, & seventh & move into second if needed. use 1, 2, 3 on OL, DL, LB in that order or DL, OL, LB

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

If Sanchez in 1st, we go DE or OLB BPA in round 3
If OLB in 1st, DE in 3
If DE in 1st, OLB in 3

[jflow78]

If Sanchez in 1st, we go DE or OLB BPA in round 3
If OLB in 1st, DE in 3
If DE in 1st, OLB in 3

So no OT in the draft at all?

[PROSCOUT]

Its cool cause as PROSCOUT said, having depth is all about planning ahead. Its all about finding quality players to be backups who can be good starters too. We can make arguments about which spot on the team we need the most help at, but if we can find a stud player as our depth, then i guess its cool.

Its all about trusting our scouts.

Ya know what? I don't even know who our scouts are. And whats really scary is even if we had the best talent scouts in the world, do Danny and Vinnie then make their moves based on that or based on who is sexy.

The best guard in the world might be available, but if he is 320 pounds and slobering on himself, while over here we have a sleek muscular wide receiver who runs a 4.32, I feel Danny might say "YEA BABY".

[darrelgreenie]

I thought that this 3rd round pick which is our next pick, could potentially have a huge impact on next year, and deserves discussion.

Or do we draft a center in the 3rd round and get ready for the departure of Rabach next year?


Lets say we land a DE or OLB with the 1st pick...

i would like to see us draft the Best Available Center

hopefully: Eric Wood or Antoine Caldwell or Jonathan Luigs will be available

all 3 are capable of backing up G/C

[PROSCOUT]

Lets say we land a DE or OLB with the 1st pick...

i would like to see us draft the Best Available Center

hopefully: Eric Wood or Antoine Caldwell or Jonathan Luigs will be available

all 3 are capable of backing up G/C

Even if Smith is available in the first round, I would not yell and scream if we got Duke Robinson in the 3rd round or any other guy who could help the offensive line.

The better we are on offense its going to help our defense because as long as we are running the ball and throwing and scoring we are probably out in front.

[darrelgreenie]

Even if Smith is available in the first round, I would not yell and scream if we got Duke Robinson in the 3rd round or any other guy who could help the offensive line.

The better we are on offense its going to help our defense because as long as we are running the ball and throwing and scoring we are probably out in front.

If Robinson was there in the 3rd that would be cool, i just figure he'll be gone by then.

I wouldn't be upset if we used our 1st and 3rd on OL.
OT/C
OT/G

[Wyndorf25]

Sounds like a Bugel kind of guy doesn't it?

Exactamundo!...That's why I bolded it. ;)

[littleskins]

A. Smith in the Frist round. Herman Johnson in the third round. We'll become the "Hogs Next Generation".

[gkekoa]

For all the love we have for Bugel, he hasn't exactly developed anybody since his return.

[elkabong82]

For all the love we have for Bugel, he hasn't exactly developed anybody since his return.

Chris Samuels turned into an elite LT under Buges. Jansen was a mainstay at RT until recently under Buges. Randy Thomas was already a good vet when we brought him in, no need to develop. Rabach has done alright, butsame case more or less as Thomas. He developed Dockery. Heyer was serviceable at RT.

Really though, as others have pointed out, we haven't drafted a lot of OL for him to work with recently. We drafted Rhino in the 3rd last draft, and reports were a "light came on" for him near the end of the season, but after just 1 season he is a wait and see. We drafted OG Kili Lefotu in the 7th rd in 2006, OTs Mark Wilson in the 5th and Jim Molinaro in the 6th in 2004, that's it under Buges.

Actually, our OL was great with Buges from 2004 until injuries took the starting right side of the OL out in early '07, IMO.

[bubba9497]

Actually, our OL was great with Buges from 2004 until injuries took the starting right side of the OL out in early '07, IMO.

they were in '06 19 sacks (6 were in one game, 13 in 15 games) 8 games with ZERO sacks.

and lets not forget Cooley's improvements in blocking since being drafted