WP.com: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker

[IbleedBnG83]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

Brian Orakpo was on the field for the first session of the three-day minicamp and, as expected, did all of his individual work with the linebackers, working as a linebacker with the first-team defense. He had told The Post before he was drafted that he figured to be broken in as a strong-side linebacker and to be used as a defensive end in pass-rushing situations. However, he's listed as a defensive end on the roster.

Here's how the first-team defense lined up:

Linemen: Phillip Daniels, Cornelius Griffin, Albert Haynesworth and Andre Carter

Linebackers: H.B. Blades, London Fletcher and Brian Orakpo

Secondary: Carlos Rogers and DeAngelo Hall (cornerbacks), LaRon Landry and Chris Horton (safeties)

Rocky McIntosh has been excused from the minicamp for personal reasons.

___________________________________

I'm glad he is getting plenty of reps in at LB. But I would still like to see him develop into a complete DE and not just a pass rusher. Hopefully he sees more time at DE during camp.

[RenegadeTK]

maybe he was just filling in for rocky then. to get him on the field.

[Stormy]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=6385061#post6385061 I'm glad he is getting plenty of reps in at LB. But I would still like to see him develop into a complete DE and not just a pass rusher. Hopefully he sees more time at DE during camp.

Ditto. We need Orakpo to develop into a 3 down DE, not a hybrid OLB. We are not going to like the match-ups playing Orakpo at SLB are going to create, either.

[flexxskins]

Blache knows what the hell he is doing.:applause:

Knock em dead Rak.

[Skins PR]

What the hell is this crap? If Danny and Vinny wanted him to play LB for us I suddenly hate this pick.

[flexxskins]

maybe he was just filling in for rocky then. to get him on the field.No, that's what Blades is doing.:)

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

What the hell is this crap? If Danny and Vinny wanted him to play LB for us I suddenly hate this pick.


i agree, but im not coming to that conclusion yet. its one day, we'll see if hes still a linebacker in training camp.

i want him as a 3 down DE. hes got the size and the rushing ability. and if hes got questionable ability stopping the run, id rather him be working on that in camp then working on being a linebacker.

[IbleedBnG83]

Ditto. We need Orakpo to develop into a 3 down DE, not a hybrid OLB. We are not going to like the match-ups playing Orakpo at SLB are going to create, either.

He is pretty fast. I think he can keep up with most TE, including Witten. I just wonder how stiff in the hips he might be, how he can cover...etc. I wonder how he will be chasing down RBs comign out the back field...

[ktball74]

I love the look of our Dline and Secondary! If CG stays healthy, we will have one of the best set of interior linemen in the league.

[Stormy]

Blache knows what the hell he is doing.:applause:

Knock em dead Rak.

Yes, he certainly does. Blache will get the most out of his personnel, come hell or high water. However, we don't need Dan and Vinny (who have vocally endorsed the idea of Orakpo at SLB) slotting him for Blache. I think this is just a matter of Blache immersing a rookie into multiple situations to give him a crash course, but hope that he is 100% in control in how Orakpo is utilized.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What the hell is this crap? If Danny and Vinny wanted him to play LB for us I suddenly hate this pick.

I don't think Danny and Vinny are dictating where this guy lines up. I believe they allow the coaches to put players in the right position.

[Stormy]

He is pretty fast. I think he can keep up with most TE, including Witten. I just wonder how stiff in the hips he might be, how he can cover...etc. I wonder how he will be chasing down RBs comign out the back field...

He's a great athlete, but appears very stiff in the hips, and there is no way that is conducive to his SLB coverage assignments in the NFC East, in my humble opinion. I trust Blache explicitly, just hope he doesn't receive pressure from above.

[Blondie]

WOO HOO TEXAS!!!!!!

Yes, you heard that from an AGGIE.

This just goes to show how excited I am to have him here.

[Playsmart30]

What the hell is this crap? If Danny and Vinny wanted him to play LB for us I suddenly hate this pick.

agree, i want his hand in dirt all the times

[TheLongshot]

I expected this. Basically this is the time of year where you assess what you have on the team, and that includes if a player can switch positions. This is part of the evaluation process to see if he can play SLB. If he can, we might see more of him out there. If not, then he might go back to the DEs and do that full time.

I wouldn't take this as gospel as to how he will be used yet, tho.

[ktball74]

I wonder what number he is wearing, since Rob Jackson was listed as #98 on the roster link?

[Drunken Master III]

I knew Blache would take him out of positon. Hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come. Put the kid at DE.

:chair:

[Ford]

Now is the time to experiment and see just what you've got. No reason to panic or overreact.

[ktball74]

I wonder what number he is wearing, since Rob Jackson was listed as #98 on the roster link before the draft?

It looks like Rob Jackson switched to 91 and Rak is wearing 98.

[sideshow24]

I wonder what number he is wearing, since Rob Jackson was listed as #98 on the roster link?

skins.com roster has him as 98

[Stormy]

I expected this. Basically this is the time of year where you assess what you have on the team, and that includes if a player can switch positions. This is part of the evaluation process to see if he can play SLB. If he can, we might see more of him out there. If not, then he might go back to the DEs and do that full time.

I wouldn't take this as gospel as to how he will be used yet, tho.

You're probably right, and I half expected it too (and can even see it's merits). However, there is no greater way to dilute a rookie's impact, than to compound his already stiff learning curve, by adding elements of a position switch to it. We don't need a "reactionary" Orakpo whose on field aggression is stilted by trying to read and process information and assignments, we need a natural 3 down DE who is ready to unleash the beast.

[IbleedBnG83]

I wonder what number he is wearing, since Rob Jackson was listed as #98 on the roster link?

Pffft...you think some roster hopeful like Jackson will keep his number over some All-American, Best defensive player, best defensive lineman, best lineman, blah, blah blah...no.

[Master Blaster]

Can the Redskins try anything without everyone on this board thinking the sky is falling?

Listen to what has been said over the last few days. The 'Skins said they know he can play with his hand down, but they just want to see how he does as an SLB. If he can perform well there, you will see him there on First and Second Down so we have our best eleven on the field. On Pass downs, you will see him and Carter on the ends, with Griffin and Daniels/Wynn in the middle.

Let's let the coaches make the strategy and cheer on our team for once.

[CPstretch]

looking at that defensive front 7, all i have to say is....how can anyone run on that defense????

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You're probably right, and I half expected it too (and can even see it's merits). However, there is no greater way to dilute a rookie's impact, than to compound his already stiff learning curve, by adding elements of a position switch to it. We don't need a "reactionary" Orakpo whose on field aggression is stilted by trying to read and process information and assignments, we need a natural 3 down DE who is ready to unleash the beast.


this is what i was hoping for. its too early to tell whether or not he wont be that guy, but i hate the idea of him being our marcus washington.

i want a 3 down beast of a DE who can do it all. i think orakpo can be that guy and we should treat him as such.


is chris wilson working out with the LBs? hes a better fit for the marcus washington role than orakpo is.

[Drunken Master III]

You're probably right, and I half expected it too (and can even see it's merits). However, there is no greater way to dilute a rookie's impact, than to compound his already stiff learning curve, by adding elements of a position switch to it. We don't need a "reactionary" Orakpo whose on field aggression is stilted by trying to read and process information and assignments, we need a natural 3 down DE who is ready to unleash the beast.

Yea... he needs to have one objective... get to the QB!

[flexxskins]

Guys, I know that you are all entitled to your opinions, but you guys who are wanting BO to be a 3 down DE and are disagreeing with him playing at SLB; don't you think that the coaches have better resources like being on the field with him and having watched film helps them evaluate where he can best help our team?

BTW, I'm never going to use the initials "BO" ever again. Lol.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Can the Redskins try anything without everyone on this board thinking the sky is falling?

Listen to what has been said over the last few days. The 'Skins said they know he can play with his hand down, but they just want to see how he does as an SLB. If he can perform well there, you will see him there on First and Second Down so we have our best eleven on the field. On Pass downs, you will see him and Carter on the ends, with Griffin and Daniels/Wynn in the middle.

Let's let the coaches make the strategy and cheer on our team for once.


did you really just say we'd take out haynesworth on passing down? please take a moment to see what you just typed.

if we have haynesworth out on passing downs, this team has gone from dumb to i dont even know what lol.

[Travdaskin]

I wonder what number he is wearing, since Rob Jackson was listed as #98 on the roster link?

They worked out a deal, Rak is #98, I think Rob is #90, and I see no big deal in this, he knows how to play DE, let him get a little more acclimated to what LB is all about, since he doesn't have as much experience there as he does DE...

[James Moss]

Blache is the man. I trust however he decides is best to use Brian Orsackpo. He has earned that respect, IMO. :logo:

[elkabong82]

Can the Redskins try anything without everyone on this board thinking the sky is falling?

Listen to what has been said over the last few days. The 'Skins said they know he can play with his hand down, but they just want to see how he does as an SLB. If he can perform well there, you will see him there on First and Second Down so we have our best eleven on the field. On Pass downs, you will see him and Carter on the ends, with Griffin and Daniels/Wynn in the middle.

Let's let the coaches make the strategy and cheer on our team for once.

Exactly what I was thinking. It's freaking mini camp, but all the armchair GMs think they know where Orakpo is and is not best-suited.

Until Orakpo gets the run-stopping aspect of LDE down, I have no problem with him at LBer on early downs and moving to DE on passing downs until he develops into a complete DE. If he progresses well, he could even be the full-time starter at LDE by opening day.

It's mini-camp people, relax.

[hunterx]

They worked out a deal, Rak is #98, I think Rob is #90, and I see no big deal in this, he knows how to play DE, let him get a little more acclimated to what LB is all about, since he doesn't have as much experience there as he does DE...


Agree he knows how to play DE, however, it's his first weekend with his new teammates in a new city. He should play the position he's comfortable with so he can learn the schemes and how his teammates play. Then once he has that down, he can learn SLB.

[nightbird]

I never realized we had so many brilliant defensive coordinators posting on this board.

[Art]

I prefer to think Orakpo will play defensive end. As most others, when drafted, I presumed that was his position, though, the ability to play in a standup position or with the hand down would be a bonus if it doesn't impede his development. Daniels is a very, very, very fine run defender. Having him in the lineup in situations you expect a run, with Orakpo, adds some beef and potency to the lineup, but, if Orakpo can't cover, teams will just exploit him in that role. We'll see.

I'd actually prefer Carter get moved to that spot because he's done it at least -- though not well :). He may have lost a bit of speed to make such a move impossible.

As for Blache, the incredible job he did last year gives him the benefit of the doubt from every one of us, even if you don't agree that it does. There is NOTHING you should be saying other than presuming Blache will get it right. He hasn't gotten it wrong yet for us as the man in charge. Like with Williams, some of us -- myself included -- questioned the hybrid Archuleta thing at safety/backer, but he deserved the benefit of the doubt. He was wrong, and failed that season, and lost some of that benefit.

[The Full Monty]

Blache knows what the hell he is doing.:applause:

Knock em dead Rak.
Greg Blache has forgotten more football than we will ever know.

May god have mercy on NFC East quarterbacks...(well...maybe not Romo ;)).

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Exactly what I was thinking. It's freaking mini camp, but all the armchair GMs think they know where Orakpo is and is not best-suited.

Until Orakpo gets the run-stopping aspect of LDE down, I have no problem with him at LBer on early downs and moving to DE on passing downs until he develops into a complete DE. If he progresses well, he could even be the full-time starter at LDE by opening day.

It's mini-camp people, relax.

im hoping this is true. and if he needs to work on his run stopping, i hope it gets started sooner than later.

[Stormy]

I prefer to think Orakpo will play defensive end. As most others, when drafted, I presumed that was his position, though, the ability to play in a standup position or with the hand down would be a bonus if it doesn't impede his development. Daniels is a very, very, very fine run defender. Having him in the lineup in situations you expect a run, with Orakpo, adds some beef and potency to the lineup, but, if Orakpo can't cover, teams will just exploit him in that role. We'll see.

I'd actually prefer Carter get moved to that spot because he's done it at least -- though not well :). He may have lost a bit of speed to make such a move impossible.

As for Blache, the incredible job he did last year gives him the benefit of the doubt from every one of us, even if you don't agree that it does. There is NOTHING you should be saying other than presuming Blache will get it right. He hasn't gotten it wrong yet for us as the man in charge. Like with Williams, some of us -- myself included -- questioned the hybrid Archuleta thing at safety/backer, but he deserved the benefit of the doubt. He was wrong, and failed that season, and lost some of that benefit.

Well said. Complete agreement.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Great lets get the best DE in the draft and make him a LB. But, I will say versatility is a great thing. The opposition will not know where he's going to be.

[Travdaskin]

im hoping this is true. and if he needs to work on his run stopping, i hope it gets started sooner than later.

Rak said he will put on some weight, no problem on the run-stopping tip...

:)

[GothSkinsFan]

agree, i want his hand in dirt all the times
I want his hand pulling the opposing QB to the ground.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Rak said he will put on some weight, no problem on the run-stopping tip...

:)


good deal.

again, does anybody know of any linebackers in the NFL that are 270-275 pounds?

[TheLongshot]

I prefer to think Orakpo will play defensive end. As most others, when drafted, I presumed that was his position, though, the ability to play in a standup position or with the hand down would be a bonus if it doesn't impede his development. Daniels is a very, very, very fine run defender. Having him in the lineup in situations you expect a run, with Orakpo, adds some beef and potency to the lineup, but, if Orakpo can't cover, teams will just exploit him in that role. We'll see.

Well, Washington wasn't that great in coverage either, so it isn't much of a change. To be honest, I don't expect that he will be left in coverage all that much, since we usually cover TEs with safeties.

Anyways, this weekend is all about assessing what we have as a team post draft and thinking about who we might want to add to the roster before training camp.

[Art]

Well said. Complete agreement.

Well, thanks.

One thing to add though is if the situation becomes like the one with Arrington, you pull the plug immediately. At the time Marvin Lewis was using Lavar with his hand down, Lavar openly complained about not being good at it and not liking it, because he saw himself as a linebacker. I supported Lewis ignoring Arrington at the time because, frankly, we were so soft at defensive end, we had to try something.

In retrospect, that support was misplaced. Once the player complains about being taken out of his comfort zone, pull the plug and try something else. You can fit a square peg in a round hole so long as it's made of sponge and gives a little. If it's made of concrete, forget it.

Additionally, the conversion of Carter from linebacker back to defensive end took some time because, as Carter said, he had to develop his close combat skills and core strength again. If Orakpo can do both, great, but, don't do both at the expense of EITHER.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Well, thanks.

One thing to add though is if the situation becomes like the one with Arrington, you pull the plug immediately. At the time Marvin Lewis was using Lavar with his hand down, Lavar openly complained about not being good at it and not liking it, because he saw himself as a linebacker. I supported Lewis ignoring Arrington at the time because, frankly, we were so soft at defensive end, we had to try something.

In retrospect, that support was misplaced. Once the player complains about being taken out of his comfort zone, pull the plug and try something else. You can fit a square peg in a round hole so long as it's made of sponge and gives a little. If it's made of concrete, forget it.

Additionally, the conversion of Carter from linebacker back to defensive end took some time because, as Carter said, he had to develop his close combat skills and core strength again. If Orakpo can do both, great, but, don't do both at the expense of EITHER.


agreed, and my worry is that because we have nobody to start at SSLB that orakpo is gonna get squeezed into that role due to necessity. i hope that doesnt happen.

[The Full Monty]

At the time Marvin Lewis was using Lavar with his hand down, Lavar openly complained about not being good at it and not liking it, because he saw himself as a linebacker. I supported Lewis ignoring Arrington at the time because, frankly, we were so soft at defensive end, we had to try something.

In retrospect, that support was misplaced. Once the player complains about being taken out of his comfort zone, pull the plug and try something else. You can fit a square peg in a round hole so long as it's made of sponge and gives a little. If it's made of concrete, forget it.
How was that support misplaced? Lavar had double digit sacks in 2002 playing as a defensive end on 3rd down. He never approached that number again. Lavar might've complained but that didn't mean he wasn't effective.

[TheLongshot]

Well, thanks.

One thing to add though is if the situation becomes like the one with Arrington, you pull the plug immediately. At the time Marvin Lewis was using Lavar with his hand down, Lavar openly complained about not being good at it and not liking it, because he saw himself as a linebacker. I supported Lewis ignoring Arrington at the time because, frankly, we were so soft at defensive end, we had to try something.

In retrospect, that support was misplaced. Once the player complains about being taken out of his comfort zone, pull the plug and try something else. You can fit a square peg in a round hole so long as it's made of sponge and gives a little. If it's made of concrete, forget it.

Kinda ironic you say this right after your previous post about putting Carter at OLB when he was on record for hating the move when they did it to him in SF.

[TE#80]

Question, who would you rather have as a run-stopping DE on first and second down, Daniels or Orakpo???

On the first two downs Orakpo can make plays from the linebacker position and on third down he can get after the QB.

[Travdaskin]

Rak (as of right now) at DE on pass-rushing downs, Daniels on obvious running downs...

[hfmonk]

I think that this needs to be taken into consideration,

"He (Orakpo) had told The Post before he was drafted that he figured to be broken in as a strong-side linebacker and to be used as a defensive end in pass-rushing situations."

If he was expecting to be drafted as a SAM and Vinny and the scouts wanted him for that then I say, "Halleluia!" because he does have alot of talent....I would have preferred to trade back and get a more natural player like Laurinitis....and another pick.... and drafted 2 OL, but I guess we did address a need in this draft.... Maybe C- isnt such a bad grade for this draft, but I wont give it any higher.

[InsaneBoost]

This should be a good season for the D with him and Albert.

[Art]

How was that support misplaced? Lavar had double digit sacks in 2002 playing as a defensive end on 3rd down. He never approached that number again. Lavar might've complained but that didn't mean he wasn't effective.

Sometimes we look back at things and forget how bad they really were because a number doesn't look that bad. Lavar was atrocious at end. Only two of his sacks -- going on memory -- came from him winning cleanly and beating his guy and generating real pressure. Everything else was garbage sacks. Seven of them were actually for -1 yard. Again, that's memory, as the conversation from back then fades slightly over time. Lavar had a HIGH, HIGH motor and kept himself chugging and got a ton of cleanup, touch down sacks because of it.

He was horrible against the run. His pass rushing ability was linear, without imagination and he couldn't get off blocks at all. Lavar actually played well and dominated games for us with .5 sacks the season before. When allowed to drop into space and come up and lower the boom, he was amazing.

It is the thought that because he had 11 sacks he played well that is the root of all things wrong with fans. I'd FAR prefer last season's 24-sack total and defense to 2002's defense with 40 sacks and a high rating, but, which was known to be soft and was among the worst in football allowing points.

In that way, sacks do not matter. Blache couldn't be more correct about that. What matters is PRESSURE. That's it. In many games last year we generated a great deal of pressure but didn't have many sacks, which accounts for how dominating we were at times, even against very good offenses.

What we're hoping for out of Orakpo is pressure of the sort that also leads to sacks.

[PROSCOUT]

He's a great athlete, but appears very stiff in the hips, and there is no way that is conducive to his SLB coverage assignments in the NFC East, in my humble opinion. I trust Blache explicitly, just hope he doesn't receive pressure from above.

Check the vertical hold button on your tv or have your eyeglasses checked. That should clear up your eyesight problem.

[Art]

Kinda ironic you say this right after your previous post about putting Carter at OLB when he was on record for hating the move when they did it to him in SF.

Understood. Carter is why I added what I did. When the player tells you he's uncomfortable, stop experimenting. It will never work.

[Hunter_R]

May god have mercy on NFC East quarterbacks...(well...maybe not Romo ;)).
If the ends consist of Daniels and Carter, I think the NFC East quarterbacks will be just fine.

[Master Blaster]

did you really just say we'd take out haynesworth on passing down? please take a moment to see what you just typed.

if we have haynesworth out on passing downs, this team has gone from dumb to i dont even know what lol.


Did you watch the Titans at all last year?

Haynesworth was off the field a lot for obvious passing situations. It's a way to rest him and save his body from wear and tear.

[chaught76]

I'm really confused.

Isn't it the coaches job to utilize their best personnel to try and achieve maxiumum results?

Also, look at our LB position.
Fletcher = consistent beast with tons of experience
McIntosh = consistently improving every year, but the knee is always a concern
Blades = solid performer but still relatively young
Fincher = did well, but not great when given an opportunity; no feel for how he'd do in an expanded role
Thomas = FA pickup with no experience in our system
2 draft picks = no experience or idea what is going on yet

If you had to put a grade on the whole group, a C- is about as high as you could go because of the amount of inexperience we have in the group as a whole. Also, if Rocky or Flethcer get injured, that is a pretty substantial hit to our LB core.

[PROSCOUT]

I, along with Blache, would prefer him to lineup as a linebacker because this gives us an incredible advantage. Daniels can stop the run cold. Advantage #1.

But by lining Rak up on the blindside as a linebacker he can chase down ball carriers or rush the passer or even switch sides with Rocky and come from the other side on some passing downs.

This will create havoc for opposing QB's and offensive coordinators because he will not be stationary, as Daniels will be. So relax, its okay. This is what they did with Laurence Tayor in New York and that worked out quite well.

[DCMONEY]

Daniels, Griffin and Haynesworth should provide a good run stuffing line. No way should the Skins get pushed around.

[Probos]

I never realized we had so many brilliant defensive coordinators posting on this board.

Come on,...this board is filled with brilliant offensive/defensive coordinators, scouts AND GMs.

:hysterical:

[RunClintonRun26]

I have absolutely no problem with him trying out some SAM - it is so early that he can actually develop the skills needed. Plus, the more he can do the better our defense will be. We all know he can get after the QB. Why not get him to do more? Worse case scenario, he moves to full time DE.

[Master Blaster]

But by lining Rak up on the blindside as a linebacker he can chase down ball carriers or rush the passer or even switch sides with Rocky and come from the other side on some passing downs.




As an SLB he lines up on the strong-side of the offensive formation. This isn't Madden where they play left and right.

[Laxpunk2006]

Did you watch the Titans at all last year?

Haynesworth was off the field a lot for obvious passing situations. It's a way to rest him and save his body from wear and tear.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Haynesworth get pulled on some third downs for a fresh body even if it's just Monty/Golston. More likely I think it will be Daniels/Wynn kicking inside. Haynesworth can get pressure but he also needs his rest.

[Art]

Did you watch the Titans at all last year?

Haynesworth was off the field a lot for obvious passing situations. It's a way to rest him and save his body from wear and tear.

He did have 3.5 sacks last year on third down, so he clearly played some then. More likely than taking him out on a passing down, the team will take him out one series a quarter and replace him with Montgomery or Golston. That'd be my guess.

[The Full Monty]

Lavar actually played well and dominated games for us with .5 sacks the season before. When allowed to drop into space and come up and lower the boom, he was amazing.
Agreed.

It is the thought that because he had 11 sacks he played well that is the root of all things wrong with fans.
Let's not go off the deep-end, boss. I'm not some numbers worshipper - I'm saying he was effective. And when Lavar got his chance to roam around and "be a playmaker" in 2003 he had a much worse year and was ineffective.

I'd FAR prefer last season's 24-sack total and defense to 2002's defense with 40 sacks and a high rating, but, which was known to be soft and was among the worst in football allowing points.
Also drawing a bit from hindsight, it was said that in 2002 Lewis insisted that Lavar play DE on 3rd down because he did not think Lavar was disciplined enough to stay in his gap on 3rd down as a LB.

If I recall points were a problem but that defense also caused turnovers with Bailey and Smoot plus Big Daddy and Darryl Gardener in that last years as effective starters. I'd much prefer that to 2008's defense, but of course, let's agree to disagree.

Let's rock and roll this year that's all that counts.

[Hogskin1]

No reason to panic or overreact.

If that were not happening in abundance with inane posts, how would I know I was on ES??

[flexxskins]

Did you watch the Titans at all last year?

Haynesworth was off the field a lot for obvious passing situations. It's a way to rest him and save his body from wear and tear.:doh:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Come on,...this board is filled with brilliant offensive/defensive coordinators, scouts AND GMs.

:hysterical:


no offense, check the skins history for the past 17 years and tell me the people in charge are doing a great job.

[PROSCOUT]

As an SLB he lines up on the strong-side of the offensive formation. This isn't Madden where they play left and right.

You are right. This is not Madden. and as such, strong side is simply a "term".

When you play on the field in the NFL, it's all about MATCHUPS. Its not about being stuck in a rigid position or spot on the field and thats all you can cover or protect.

You put your players in a position to maximize their abilities and by moving Orakpo around this is what Blache is doing. I don't play Madden so I have no idea if you do that on your unit at home, but all of my posts refer to reality, the real world, and the real field in the NFL.

[Clutch03]

no offense, check the skins history for the past 17 years and tell me the people in charge are doing a great job.

Point taken however that does not automatically mean the folks on ES would do a better job running the team.

Could you imagine a ES run team? :hysterical:

[ST is my boy]

I think they are just taking a look at what he can do at linebacker........I really dont want him to play linebacker to be honest.....I dont like it. But I trust Blache.

[TheLongshot]

Let's not go off the deep-end, boss. I'm not some numbers worshipper - I'm saying he was effective. And when Lavar got his chance to roam around and "be a playmaker" in 2003 he had a much worse year and was ineffective.

Well, the defense in general was ineffective in 2003. It wasn't just about Lavar.

[IbleedBnG83]

I think Blache is just evaluating and playing around with some ideas. Being able to move personnel around on defense is a great asset to keep offenses guessing and trying to exploit your own mismatches. This doesn't mean anything right now. We have to assume Blache will do what is best and have the best players in each position play.

[Rocky52Mc]

Hope all is well with Rocky. If Orakpo is holding down a LB spot, I hope Blades knows that he doesn't have a place on the starting LB lineup...unless we magically switched to a 3-4 lol

[Master Blaster]

He did have 3.5 sacks last year on third down, so he clearly played some then. More likely than taking him out on a passing down, the team will take him out one series a quarter and replace him with Montgomery or Golston. That'd be my guess.


Third down isn't necessarily a passing situation where you would pull him. What I am talking about is when it is an obvious passing situation.

I just think people need to understand that Haynesworth isn't someone that is going to play 95% of the snaps. To get the most out of him he needs to play around 70%. Taking a series off like you mentioned is a good way to give him a breather, and taking him out in obvious passing situations is another. All one needs to do is watch the Titans from last year and see how they handled him.

[Master Blaster]

:doh:


Strong argument.

You clearly won.

[sableholic]

I'm sure this was posted already but Rich Tandler said that Orakpo did some work with the Dline after starting practice with the LBs on twitter:

"Orakpo did some word with D-line after starting practice with the LB's. Very impressive speed and quickness. "

[Art]

Third down isn't necessarily a passing situation where you would pull him. What I am talking about is when it is an obvious passing situation.

I just think people need to understand that Haynesworth isn't someone that is going to play 95% of the snaps. To get the most out of him he needs to play around 70%. Taking a series off like you mentioned is a good way to give him a breather, and taking him out in obvious passing situations is another. All one needs to do is watch the Titans from last year and see how they handled him.

Well, 2.5 of them were in third and 6 or more. I presume he played some on third and obvious passing situations. I agree with you he'll be rested and I agree with you he was taken out from time to time in Tennessee, but it wasn't a regular rotational thing there on any down.

[Veretax]

Here's another thing to consider, with all these nameless tryouts in camp, maybe they didn't want Rak up front against O-lineman where he could potentially get hurt? Maybe they want to see what Wynn and Daniels have, now that Daniels is back from his injury.

[Blue Collar Skins]

WOO HOO TEXAS!!!!!!

Yes, you heard that from an AGGIE.

This just goes to show how excited I am to have him here.Does he make your "teeth sweat" like Jason Taylor did? :silly:

[Kindred]

imo they are still figuring out what all his capabilities are and how we can possibly use him. if he's a 1 dimensional player, whenever he's in there the other team is going to know what he's going to do (aka bruce smith). If he constantly moves around our defense becomes unpredictable and all sorts of things can open up.

[jp redskin]

I actually like the idea of Orakpo at LB on running downs. Daniels is great against the run and it allows them to move Orakpo around. You can send Orakpo on a blitz from multiple spots. I could see them moving Horton up a little and shading him to the strong side and having Oursackpro lined up next to Fletcher and charging through the O-line right behind Fat Al.

[Pimpey42000]

Yeah, I like this no problem here, they want to see their rookies in action this is the perfect time to watch and observe.

[StillUnknown]

i hope this move is only temporary

he should be on the line in most situations

[Snagletooth]

I can understand many expressing some disappointment with Rak at SLB. We have been clamoring for a DE for years. Rak seemed to be the one "tweener" this year who could prove to be stout enough to play the run in a 4-3. If Blache doesn't see him as a guy who can develop into LDE, full-time, then I am less excited about the pick. I think Blache does view him there, at LDE, but the flirtation with SLB is a bit concerning.

The team liked Marcus Washington in the same "hybrid" role as they may view Orakpo. But ultimately MW didn't get that many opportunities as a pass rush specialist from the DE position.

[flexxskins]

Strong argument.

You clearly won.I disagreed with your quote, and the only thing that I had time for while running out the front door was a :doh: gesture. I can see that you are sensitive by the smart alec reply.

Since I've been back, I have been able to read more of what you were talking about and therefore have a better understanding.

Sorry if I offended.

[CPortJGibbs89]

Meh lets see how this plays out. Personaly I want him starting a DE every down.

[Snagletooth]

I actually like the idea of Orakpo at LB on running downs. Daniels is great against the run and it allows them to move Orakpo around. You can send Orakpo on a blitz from multiple spots. I could see them moving Horton up a little and shading him to the strong side and having Oursackpro lined up next to Fletcher and charging through the O-line right behind Fat Al.

Teams pass plenty on first and second down. If you are happy with Orakpo at LB, limiting his opportunities to at the Qb, then will you be happy with a four, or five sack season?

I'll be happy with a strong contribution, either way. But I think many are going to be upset if Rak isn't right around double digit sack totals.

[DallasSucks19922010]

Sometimes we look back at things and forget how bad they really were because a number doesn't look that bad. Lavar was atrocious at end. Only two of his sacks -- going on memory -- came from him winning cleanly and beating his guy and generating real pressure. Everything else was garbage sacks. Seven of them were actually for -1 yard. Again, that's memory, as the conversation from back then fades slightly over time. Lavar had a HIGH, HIGH motor and kept himself chugging and got a ton of cleanup, touch down sacks because of it.

He was horrible against the run. His pass rushing ability was linear, without imagination and he couldn't get off blocks at all. Lavar actually played well and dominated games for us with .5 sacks the season before. When allowed to drop into space and come up and lower the boom, he was amazing.

It is the thought that because he had 11 sacks he played well that is the root of all things wrong with fans. I'd FAR prefer last season's 24-sack total and defense to 2002's defense with 40 sacks and a high rating, but, which was known to be soft and was among the worst in football allowing points.

In that way, sacks do not matter. Blache couldn't be more correct about that. What matters is PRESSURE. That's it. In many games last year we generated a great deal of pressure but didn't have many sacks, which accounts for how dominating we were at times, even against very good offenses.

What we're hoping for out of Orakpo is pressure of the sort that also leads to sacks.

They didnt get any pressure. Quarterbacks had as much time as needed and could step up in the pocket at their convenience.

[Art]

They didnt get any pressure. Quarterbacks had as much time as needed and could step up in the pocket at their convenience.

This is pure idiocy and exposes a glaring lack of attention on your part. We were the No. 4 defense in football. While we were among the better defenses in most tracked categories, we were not very good in a few areas, preventing us from being elite. You have made the mistake of presuming since we were not good in sacks we weren't good with pressure. Nothing is further from the truth.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for QBs to have as much time as needed and the ability to step up in the pocket at their convenience and STILL be No. 4 overall, No. 6 in points surrendered and be No. 7 in overall pass defense. These things simply do not match. Only 56.8 percent of passes were completed against us.

A QB with all day to throw completes more. Either you believe we have the greatest secondary in the history of NFL football, with the top four or five cover guys to ever have played the game or you have made an error in understanding the pressure we got. We got very good pressure in many games.

What we didn't do well was finish. We had trouble making that key, game-changing play that the elite defenses can make. You don't hold teams to a 75.6 QB rating overall if you're allowing them to stand there humming a tune and picking us apart. You know this, because you saw it happen, but you can't process the distinction between a sack and pressure, thinking the two are the same.

We accomplished what we accomplished defensively playing the No. 1 offense in football. Playing the No. 2 offense in football. Playing the No. 4 offense in football. Playing the No. 7 offense in football, twice. Playing the No. 9 offense in football, twice. Throw in playing another top 10 passing offense, in Dallas, twice. More than half our games were against excellent offenses or at least excellent passing offenses.

What you say is simply unable to be accurate given that fact.

So, please do not continue spouting untrue things.

[Skins4SB]

Ah please don't let him to waste there. I want to see him play DE. Even when we draft a damn DE we play him at another position. Go figure.

[corrupt3d]

This is pure idiocy and exposes a glaring lack of attention on your part. We were the No. 4 defense in football. While we were among the better defenses in most tracked categories, we were not very good in a few areas, preventing us from being elite. You have made the mistake of presuming since we were not good in sacks we weren't good with pressure. Nothing is further from the truth.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for QBs to have as much time as needed and the ability to step up in the pocket at their convenience and STILL be No. 4 overall, No. 6 in points surrendered and be No. 7 in overall pass defense. These things simply do not match. Only 56.8 percent of passes were completed against us.

A QB with all day to throw completes more. Either you believe we have the greatest secondary in the history of NFL football, with the top four or five cover guys to ever have played the game or you have made an error in understanding the pressure we got. We got very good pressure in many games.

What we didn't do well was finish. We had trouble making that key, game-changing play that the elite defenses can make. You don't hold teams to a 75.6 QB rating overall if you're allowing them to stand there humming a tune and picking us apart. You know this, because you saw it happen, but you can't process the distinction between a sack and pressure, thinking the two are the same.

We accomplished what we accomplished defensively playing the No. 1 offense in football. Playing the No. 2 offense in football. Playing the No. 4 offense in football. Playing the No. 7 offense in football, twice. Playing the No. 9 offense in football, twice. Throw in playing another top 10 passing offense, in Dallas, twice. More than half our games were against excellent offenses or at least excellent passing offenses.

What you say is simply unable to be accurate given that fact.

So, please do not continue spouting untrue things.



So I don't get it Art, are you not a fan of the Orakpo pick? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm legitimately curious

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I am approaching this news cautiously...like it is a dog I have only just met for the first time.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I actually think we did get outstanding play out of our secondary last year. Extraordinary play even.

Art's been on this weird "pressure without sacks" kick for a while and it's kind of impossible to discuss it as being true without a game tape and a stopwatch. So...I guess we got great pressure despite no sacks and turnovers.

(Personally, I think our defense was built around having outstanding run defense which set up obvious passing downs which is where our superior secondary play could domninate. But that's just me. I also think our linebackers are seriously under-rated in pass coverage).

And this leads to the big.....Hmmmmmm.....If the defnse is built entirely around stopping the run above all else. Do you really want Orakpo and Carter as your starting defensive ends, particulary if you are worried about Rocky's health and the loss of Washington? Teams may find that they can run to the edge against that D.

In Blache's mind, it may not matter if Orakpo gets 9 or 10 sacks, if he is putting us in 2nd and 5 all day. Blache seems to build his entire D around the absolute basics. And if anything threatens that, he is unhappy. (Yet, still quotable).

[Art]

So I don't get it Art, are you not a fan of the Orakpo pick? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm legitimately curious

I LOVE the Orakpo pick where we picked and for who was there. Orakpo is a great prospect we are lucky to have. Our defense can use some youth up front and if Orakpo works out, he may add the finishing ability and clean pressure ability to improve us in some of the areas we lacked last year.

We clearly needed that youth and his speed off the edge as well as some focus in the first round on our own defensive line, given we haven't picked there for some time.

But, at the end of the day, our problem was not on defense. If there was an elite offensive tackle there with Orakpo, I'd have gone OT, again for youth and depth and home grown need. If there was a great QB prospect there, I'd have gone QB, not so much that I don't believe the team can win with Campbell at QB, but, I don't believe Campbell can win if he's the central figure on the team.

There's a lot of talent on the roster right now. We have legitimately top players across all positions on the field, except DE and QB and we now hope for DE. If the top level talent diminishes at all, instead of carrying us, I do not believe Campbell can overcome that. I believe an elite QB could. And though I hope Campbell plays very well and becomes above average or even elite, the one area we've not received elite level play over the last several seasons is the one he now holds down.

If we find our Tom Brady, all the other warts disappear.

[F Landry]

What the hell is this crap? If Danny and Vinny wanted him to play LB for us I suddenly hate this pick.

Agreed.

270 LB linebackers are almost too big for a 3-4...let alone a 4-3.

*Sigh*

Same old...same old...

:doh:

[Art]

I actually think we did get outstanding play out of our secondary last year. Extraordinary play even.

Art's been on this weird "pressure without sacks" kick for a while and it's kind of impossible to discuss it as being true without a game tape and a stopwatch. So...I guess we got great pressure despite no sacks and turnovers.

(Personally, I think our defense was built around having outstanding run defense which set up obvious passing downs which is where our superior secondary play could domninate. But that's just me. I also think our linebackers are seriously under-rated in pass coverage).

We are set up around having outstanding run defense to set up obvious passing downs. That's precisely how we're configured with Blache. It is his core philosophy. Pressure comes in ways few here get. Gregg Williams was a master at showing -- showing on purpose -- a specific blitz knowing every team has keys based on certain looks. For years he was smarter than everyone else, because he'd show a blitz look and get a team to throw the key which he had covered.

What got him in trouble is teams began to figure out no matter what he was doing, behind it all, it was Cover-2 when he'd show pressure. Thus, they'd throw routes for that defense, regardless of look, and there you had his bad year with us, causing an entire change in him the following season.

Blache is similar in that he will often show a specific rush look, knowing it triggers something, but, unlike Williams, he tries to identify WHAT the keys are and actually tries to jump those. Blache was surprisingly good about crafting a defense for the opposition we faced, specifically identifying their strengths and tendencies and targeting those for eradication and allowing them to beat us a way they weren't used to.

But, in this, is generating pressure with certain looks and overloads, even with a passive defense. You can bring someone from a certain spot and even if they never hit the line of scrimmage because the QB throws hot, the pressure exists because they see it and key off it, leading to our advantage when we guess well on those keys.

You do not get as far in the NFL as Blache with a belief that sacks don't matter if you don't actually know why that is and what that means. People here presumed he meant it wasn't necessary to pressure teams. He doesn't care if you get a sack. He cares that you dictate what the offense will do. This is something we did well last year.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

the only thing i worry about if orakpo being the SAM is that offenses will just audible when they see daniels line up at DE. think about it, youre eli manning. you see orakpo there on 1st down, if hes such a liability in the run game, you call jacobs to run over him. mission accomplished. flip side, you see orakpo at SAM and phillip daniels at DE, you audible to a pass and roll out to daniels side, and now you have all day to throw because daniels is not a pressure threat.

or you can have orakpo line up at DE on every play and stop the run and stop the pass and make a QBs job a nightmare because you have to pick your poison because the DE there is suited for both types of defense, not one. i dont wanna think we drafted a pass rushing DE only, id hope that a guy of his size and strengths can be that every down DE.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The only problem I have with relying on "out-scheming" teams is eventually you run into the situation Williams did in '06 where your talent can't perform your magic tricks anymore. I still think the biggest issue on that team was that they couldn't tackle worth a damn, and their safety play was abysmal (between Archuleta being horrible and Taylor pouting half the year because Clark was gone).

Like my daddy has never once said in his life: "You can't make Gone With the Wind with porn stars. Though it would be fun to try."

They bring in a tackling machine in Fletcher, draft Landry, and give Sean his smile back and a lot of the problems go away.

(I also feel that a lot of people are counting an awful lot on Daniels who is - allow me to remind everyone - 56 years old and coming off knee surgery).

[DGREENHULK]

Blache knows what the hell he is doing.:applause:

Knock em dead Rak.

I agree...Blache will move him around and use his talents...Remember Haynesworth has said he wants to be moved around as well like he was in TN...

[Art]

The only problem I have with relying on "out-scheming" teams is eventually you run into the situation Williams did in '06 where your talent can't perform your magic tricks anymore. I still think the biggest issue on that team was that they couldn't tackle worth a damn, and their safety play was abysmal (between Archuleta being horrible and Taylor pouting half the year because Clark was gone).

Like my daddy has never once said in his life: "You can't make Gone With the Wind with porn stars. Though it would be fun to try."

They bring in a tackling machine in Fletcher, draft Landry, and give Sean his smile back and a lot of the problems go away.

(I also feel that a lot of people are counting an awful lot on Daniels who is - allow me to remind everyone - 56 years old and coming off knee surgery).

It's true out-scheming the other team requires your players to perform. We don't do half so well last year if we aren't locking down teams in man coverage. Aggressive man coverage was a beautiful thing to see. If we couldn't do that, in combination with a line that was not very good at getting sacks -- but which was great against the run -- then we'd have been No. 25 or below in overall defense.

[81tothehall]

Why not let him move all over the place? I love the idea of interchangeable parts, makes us less predictable. good move, just don't leave him at SLB completely.

[Hunter_R]

i dont wanna think we drafted a pass rushing DE only, id hope that a guy of his size and strengths can be that every down DE.
I agree. If that's all they want him to be, then the people who criticized the FO for taking all of 20 seconds to select him were right. They should have listened to trade offers. That kind of player can be found elsewhere easily enough (Chris Wilson).

[McD5]

Play him at DE.

Don't repeat the Jason Taylor mistake from last season.

We need sacks and fumbles.

[theboomking]

I'm with a lot of people, and would prefer it if Orakpo was just at DE when the season starts. Buy, right now we have a slew of playes who can play end, and no true SLB's. Maybe Wilson or McIntosh could be that guy, but neither has played the position as a pro. As long as they are going to use Orakpo AGGRESSIVELY, and he also plays at DE on more than just 3rd down, then I don't mind moving him around. It could be an advantage if he is used more like a Merriman or Ware, and used to penetrate the backfield from varius positions. The Ravens used a similar technique with Boulware when they ran a 4-3.

Next year, I think Wynn moves on to coaching. He was working with the rookies teaching technique today. Daniels probably retires next year. Orakpo starts at LDE and we find a true SLB.

With this approach, We can definitely hold the roster Spot of Rob Jackson, who apparently has showed up 10lb's heavier and looked good in mini-camp today.

[GothSkinsFan]

(Personally, I think our defense was built around having outstanding run defense which set up obvious passing downs which is where our superior secondary play could domninate. But that's just me. I also think our linebackers are seriously under-rated in pass coverage).

In Blache's mind, it may not matter if Orakpo gets 9 or 10 sacks, if he is putting us in 2nd and 5 all day. Blache seems to build his entire D around the absolute basics. And if anything threatens that, he is unhappy. (Yet, still quotable).

Blache's system's gotta wear the D out. You can hold 'em to FGs for 3 Qs and wear out for the 4th, or you can get a couple of sacks and INTs and get off the field in their end.

[sableholic]

Play him at DE.

Don't repeat the Jason Taylor mistake from last season.

We need sacks and fumbles.

The mistake with Taylor was that he got hurt, not how we used him. If anything when he was healthy we should have moved him around more just like Miami did. People really are overreacting to this "news". They have said since they picked him that they envisioned him playing some LB. Today he practiced with both the DEs and the LBs. We will use him as a hybrid DE/LB. The giants do this with their players too (Kiwi I believe it was played LB/DE). It confuses offenses because they can't expect him to always be in one position.

I love that you guys think you know better than Blache and the rest of the coaches on how to use these players.

[GibbsFactor]

His body language was very withdrawn and closed in those pics Murph took. Hope he's cool with being with the LBs.

[SAli457180]

IMO, Orakpo needs to be playing DE for at least 2 out of the 3 to be the player to be effective. For as long as Blache has been here, he has had to make chicken salad out of chicken *****. With both AH and Orakpo, I think he can be really creative with the defense in front of him.

[adamyesme1111]

i agree, but im not coming to that conclusion yet. its one day, we'll see if hes still a linebacker in training camp.

i want him as a 3 down DE. hes got the size and the rushing ability. and if hes got questionable ability stopping the run, id rather him be working on that in camp then working on being a linebacker.

I agree, this guy can disrupt offenses, and he would have a way better opprutinity to do that if he played DE all 3 downs. I saw him make plenty of tackles for losses on his highlights, I'm sure he could develop nicely against the run as well as being a helluva passrusher.

[ciresolstice]

No concern there....this is the time to move guys around and see and get a feel for what else they can or can't do. This is no sign Orakpo will be solely a linebacker or even in as linebacker a lot. It's like trying a tackle or guard at center to see "if" in a pinch they could.

[Hunter_R]

If they wanted an outside linebacker, there were some guys at USC that were, you know, outside linebackers. They could have traded back and most likely gotten one of them, and possibly another high round pick.

[Bantu]

If they wanted an outside linebacker, there were some guys at USC that were, you know, outside linebackers. They could have traded back and most likely gotten one of them, and possibly another high round pick.

Cuz none of the USC LBs have shown the skill set to play all three downs or rush the passer.

I don't understand why everyone is crying so much about this. The coaching staff, if nothing else, is trying to find a way to get Orakpo on the field for as many downs/situations as possible.

[Hunter_R]

Cuz none of the USC LBs have shown the skill set to play all three downs or rush the passer.

I don't understand why everyone is crying so much about this. The coaching staff, if nothing else, is trying to find a way to get Orakpo n the field for as many downs/situations as possible.
What has Orakpo shown in college that he can be a 4-3 outside linebacker? I stress the 4-3 part. He's not going to be playing like a 3-4 linebacker rushing the qb.

[Master Blaster]

His body language was very withdrawn and closed in those pics Murph took. Hope he's cool with being with the LBs.


Or it could just be that he is in a brand new situation, with no one that he knows yet, and has a lot of pressure to perform.

Not to many people are real open in that situation Dr. Phil.

[RabidFan]

He was with the DL on Redskins Nation today so WTF is this?

[flock53]

Ditto. We need Orakpo to develop into a 3 down DE, not a hybrid OLB. We are not going to like the match-ups playing Orakpo at SLB are going to create, either.
Whitten would DESTROY him

[BadKarma]

After looking through this thread I just want to echo the thought that G. Blache knows what he is doing, I never considered Rak playing anywhere but DE when we drafted him but logically until he can bulk up a little and learn the system he isn't as good a fit on run stopping downs as Daniels is in Blache's system.

I attribute our lack of sacks more to the containment philosophy that Williams and now Blache have been coaching for years here in DC. We still play in the NFC East and even with Haynesworth we are still going to look to stop the run first and Phillip Daniels when healthy is an absolute monster at that, in fact thats really the only reason we have him rostered. He is basically a DT at this point in his career and is probably the strongest player on the Skins, I would assume Rak has to prove he is a better every down end to take that spot from Daniels.

You have to find ways to get your best players on the field especially the prized draft pick and having Orakpo @ strongside LB may be a liability in some 1st down passing situations but lets face it, we are piss poor at OLB right now and I think Rak is going to be a beast if this is the way Blache decides to play his hand. Of course Daniels is aging and injury prone so Orakpo will have to eventually have to bulk up and move to DE but I imagine having him at LB presents more problems for teams trying to gameplan against us this year than if we had him at DE with Daniels on the bench.

[StillUnknown]

i think it would be more beneficial to have Orakpo focus on becoming great at one position, as opposed to flipping him between the line and LB

its not like he's a small DE, he's at least 265 with the ability to get tad bigger. i would rather see the coaches build up his run defense (which isn't as bad as some make it seem).

we were still top 10 against the run without daniels last year, i think we would still be top 10 with Orakpo playing the spot, only playing Orakpo on the line would greatly increase our chance of actually bringing down the QB

[f_trizzy]

If they wanted an outside linebacker, there were some guys at USC that were, you know, outside linebackers. They could have traded back and most likely gotten one of them, and possibly another high round pick.

My thoughts exactly. If we were looking for an OLB, why not get a guy that played it as a full time position rather than experimenting with a guy that just seems a more natural fit at DE.

[flock53]

After looking through this thread I just want to echo the thought that G. Blache knows what he is doing, I never considered Rak playing anywhere but DE when we drafted him but logically until he can bulk up a little and learn the system he isn't as good a fit on run stopping downs as Daniels is in Blache's system.

I attribute our lack of sacks more to the containment philosophy that Williams and now Blache have been coaching for years here in DC. We still play in the NFC East and even with Haynesworth we are still going to look to stop the run first and Phillip Daniels when healthy is an absolute monster at that, in fact thats really the only reason we have him rostered. He is basically a DT at this point in his career and is probably the strongest player on the Skins, I would assume Rak has to prove he is a better every down end to take that spot from Daniels.

You have to find ways to get your best players on the field especially the prized draft pick and having Orakpo @ strongside LB may be a liability in some 1st down passing situations but lets face it, we are piss poor at OLB right now and I think Rak is going to be a beast if this is the way Blache decides to play his hand. Of course Daniels is aging and injury prone so Orakpo will have to eventually have to bulk up and move to DE but I imagine having him at LB presents more problems for teams trying to gameplan against us this year than if we had him at DE with Daniels on the bench.
I dont know about all that, if he doesnt play the position well (OLB) then you cant play him for the sake of playing him. Outside of our offense (run,run,pass,punt)there is no blueprint. Philly is a throw first team, Dallas mixes it up and the G-Men are a run first team, but mixes it well too. If you put him out there and he struggles, it could get ugly. True he would be strong v/s the run cause of his size, and should be able to blitz from out there but isnt that tipping the hat too much. QB read #1, whats he doing, pass coverage? wheres my player hes assigned to? Is he blitzing? Wheres the hot read. Isnt he the same size/weight as Carter basically? The bulk will come after a year or two in a conditioning program. i think he was out there cause Rockys absence and for the coaches to see more in depth if he can cut it out there. It is only day 1.

[Dan T.]

I can see him standing on the outside on third downs just like Derrick Thomas or -dare I say it? Lawrence Taylor... wide enough outside that the poor offensive tackle is looking out the corner of his eye thinking "how the **** am I going to first-step out there quick enough to get a pad on this guy?"

He had the quickest burst in college football, is the strongest 260 pound player in the 2008 draft, and has a running back's straight ahead speed. So let Blache line his new guided missile in a two-point stance and have him beeline it for the quarterback. Good things will happen.

[flock53]

I can see him standing on the outside on third downs just like Derrick Thomas or -dare I say it? Lawrence Taylor... wide enough outside that the poor offensive tackle is looking out the corner of his eye thinking "how the **** am I going to first-step out there quick enough to get a pad on this guy?"

He had the quickest burst in college football, is the strongest 260 pound player in the 2008 draft, and has a running back's straight ahead speed. So let Blache line his new guided missile in a two-point stance and have him beeline it for the quarterback. Good things will happen.
Good point, I can see the Eagles running that shovel pass right underneath him or if hes successful a couple times the team giving the OT some help or rolling out away from him.

[Dan T.]

Good point, I can see the Eagles running that shovel pass right underneath him or if hes successful a couple times the team giving the OT some help or rolling out away from him.

And I can see London Fletcher, free because Big Al has swallowed the center and guard, flying to that side and stuffing Westbrook for a 2 yard gain.

And if Okrapo forces the Eagles to double team him or roll away from him, well, that's an example of a player on D forcing a team to change its game plan. Which means more good things happen for the D.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And I can see Haynesworth, Carter and Fletcher enacting a scene from OZ in the showers with Chase Daniel. But that may just be me.

I figured that while we were into the borderline homoerotic defensive fantasies, we might as well take it all the way, you know.

[Dan T.]

And I can see Haynesworth, Carter and Fletcher enacting a scene from OZ in the showers with Chase Daniel. But that may just be me.

I figured that while we were into the borderline homoerotic defensive fantasies, we might as well take it all the way, you know.

Homoerotic? Really? Where did that come from?

[mithong1]

this is good IMO... orakpo will get destroyed by right tackles in the run game, he needs to be on the move to be effective defending the run

[mithong1]

I can see him standing on the outside on third downs just like Derrick Thomas or -dare I say it? Lawrence Taylor... wide enough outside that the poor offensive tackle is looking out the corner of his eye thinking "how the **** am I going to first-step out there quick enough to get a pad on this guy?"

He had the quickest burst in college football, is the strongest 260 pound player in the 2008 draft, and has a running back's straight ahead speed. So let Blache line his new guided missile in a two-point stance and have him beeline it for the quarterback. Good things will happen.

aaron maybin's burst > orakpo's burst

[mithong1]

i'm sure many of you say the footage of brandon pettigrew destroying rak in the run game... yes pettigrew is one of the best blocking tight end prospects in recent memory, but he's still no right tackle.

rak is going to have to make huge improvements on the run front to play DE on anything other than 3rd down.

[theboomking]

Found this comparison on an Oakland Raiders board:

"Combine numbers are pretty close.

Shawne Merriman (6-4, 272)
225 Bench = 25 reps
40 yard dash = 4.72 secs
Vertical jump = 40 inch
Broad jump= 10 feet

Brian Orakpo (6-3, 263)
225 Bench = 31 reps
40 yard dash = 4.70 secs
Vertical jump = 39.5 inch
Broad jump=

Demarcus Ware (6-4, 251)
225 Bench = 27 reps
40 yard dash = 4.56 secs
Vertical jump = 38.6 inch
Broad jump= 10.2 feet"

I'd rate Orakpo as more stiff in the hips than Ware and less so than Merriman. Same type of build, but stronger than both were at this point in their career. Problem is, we run a 4-3. Again, I don't mind flexing him to OLB as long as we are doing it to move him around and let him get upfield, and our schemes are designed to avoid forcing him to cover or read and react too much. The best rookie utilization is probably to maximize using his expolsive ability while easing him into the mental aspect of the game.

[Laron Burgundy]

I think he compares more to Terrell Suggs, or maybe Marcus Washington. If he can make the transition then that helps our team out. He has great size to play SLB and gives us a blitzer out of our linebackers. I like next year's DE and OLB prospects though, so either way we can probably get a solid player at either position in the 1st or 2nd round next year to play whichever position he doesn't. We have decent starts at DE this year but really we had nobody at OLB, so this makes sense. Plus I like Rak playing there way more than if we had decided to go with Cushing.

McIntosh's contract also expires this year, so we'll need to get him resigned. And plus 3 of our defensive ends have their contracts expire. So next year we'll either need to get these contracts settled or we'll need to draft for the edges of our d again.

[SonOfWashington]

As long as he makes a positive impact on the field, fine by me.

[justice98]

If he can show any kind of aptitude at all at LB, I say it's not a bad move. It can't hurt to find out in minicamp, can it? Establishing versatility is never a bad thing. I'm much more comfortable with Philip Daniels holding up against the run than Orakpo at this early stage. Cuz with Carter on the other end, one of the ends needs to be a competent against the run.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

article just came out that says hes going to be our SSLB.

so much for us drafting a real defensive end. i can still dream.


14 years now vinny, 14 years!

[Travdaskin]

article just came out that says hes going to be our SSLB.

so much for us drafting a real defensive end. i can still dream.


14 years now vinny, 14 years!

He is gonna play 1 and 2nd down at LB, and 3rd down at DE, what is wrong with that???

[StillUnknown]

article just came out that says hes going to be our SSLB.

so much for us drafting a real defensive end. i can still dream.


14 years now vinny, 14 years!

i hope they know what they are doing, but i don't like this.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

He is gonna play 1 and 2nd down at LB, and 3rd down at DE, what is wrong with that???


hes a linebacker now, not a defensive end. hes marcus washington.

i wanted a legit 3 down DE, ala jared allen, osi youmienouri, justin tuck, julius peppers, john abraham. i thought we had one, i guess i was wrong.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i hope they know what they are doing, but i don't like this.


im assuming he'll still make an impact, but its a shame that we just cannot get a young stud onto the dline in a permanent fashion. who knows, maybe he will at some point, but i honestly think were just putting him at LB because we have nobody else.

[Travdaskin]

hes a linebacker now, not a defensive end. hes marcus washington.

i wanted a legit 3 down DE, ala jared allen, osi youmienouri, justin tuck, julius peppers, john abraham. i thought we had one, i guess i was wrong.

We do have one, we don't have a OLB THAT IS THE PROBLEM lol...

[Hunter_R]

We do have one, we don't have a OLB THAT IS THE PROBLEM lol...
Who?

If OLB was the problem, then they should have drafted an OLB. They could have gotten some pretty good deals for the number 13 spot.

[StillUnknown]

We do have one, we don't have a OLB THAT IS THE PROBLEM lol...

then you draft a LB

now we have a DE who essentially will have to split time learning to play 2 positions instead of concentrating on one. learning how to play 1 position at the NFL level is hard enough for a rookie.

like BLC said, i was hoping we drafted him with the intentions of using him as a 3 down lineman

[Travdaskin]

Who?

If OLB was the problem, then they should have drafted an OLB. They could have gotten some pretty good deals for the number 13 spot.

Brian is the DE we needed, but since there is no one at OLB (AND HE CAN PLAY BOTH) they take him, and use him at both, he fills 2 needs in one lol...

[Hunter_R]

Brian is the DE we needed, but since there is no one at OLB (AND HE CAN PLAY BOTH) they take him, and use him at both, he fills 2 needs in one lol...
Unless he can divide, he can't be an every down DE and SAM at the same time.

[redskins021]

I know this is BS speculation but its fun to speculate so. Shawn Merriman is a FA next year and he is from the area he is also big enough to play DE in the 4-3. I have heard that he wanted the Redskins to draft him. Iam just adding to the speculation but think of this front 7. BTW I think Merriman can play DE in the 4-3 and be affective doing it.

DE Shawn Merriman, DT Big AL, DT Big Monty/ Kedric, DE Andre Carter

OLB Brian Orakpo, MLB LFB, OLB Rocky

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/166095-merriman-downplays-speculation-about-future

[Travdaskin]

Unless he can divide, he can't be an every down DE and SAM at the same time.

I know, I know, they need to get the OLB squared away, and Brian needs to focus solely on getting to the QB for now...

[WARLORD1863]

Unless he can divide, he can't be an every down DE and SAM at the same time.

I thought JLC was saying that Orakpo would be in for pass-rush opportunities at DE, and LB the rest of the time.

Honestly I'd much rather he stay at DE and keep the pressure on the opposing QB. I think we're trying to do too much with the guy and I have a feeling it'll backfire.

[justice98]

I wouldn't be too concerned about him getting to the QB. If the hype is to be believed, he should be able to rush the QB with some success. If he knows one thing, it should be that. That's why he was a first round pick. So I have no problem with them maximizing his ability as a rookie by using his strength. I have a feeling he'd get exposed if you left him out there on running downs, at least at this stage of his career. Let Daniels and Wynn teach him how to play DE in the NFL and when both of them are gone next year, he'll take over full time.

[justice98]

I thought JLC was saying that Orakpo would be in for pass-rush opportunities at DE, and LB the rest of the time.

Honestly I'd much rather he stay at DE and keep the pressure on the opposing QB. I think we're trying to do too much with the guy and I have a feeling it'll backfire.

In pass rush opportunities, that's what he'll be doing.

[Samuels]

hes a linebacker now, not a defensive end. hes marcus washington.

i wanted a legit 3 down DE, ala jared allen, osi youmienouri, justin tuck, julius peppers, john abraham. i thought we had one, i guess i was wrong.

x2 this is really ignorant just like playing Chris Wilson at LB. These team is gonna be exposed in pass coverage just like Kiwanuka was for the giants at SSLB. NFL teams are gonna make those guys cover in space.

We need to leave the kid at DE and tell him to continue to bulk to get better againest the run and master that postion. Before you know it he will be losing weight to get quicker at LB.

I'd rather just play HB at SSLB like he played most of last year anyway or resign Marcus..

[HA1LV1CT0RY]

Blache knows what the hell he is doing.:applause:

Knock em dead Rak.

Exactly this. Orakpo will fit wherever greg puts him.

[Laron Burgundy]

Here's the thing, we blitz a lot. That means even as an LB, Orakpo will get his chances to go after the qb on 1st and 2nd down. We shouldn't even begin speculating about getting Merriman. SD will lock him up for a long time and I honestly doubt our cap situation allows us to go after two big names in back-to-back years. Getting a DE in next year's draft might be great though.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Here's the thing, we blitz a lot. That means even as an LB, Orakpo will get his chances to go after the qb on 1st and 2nd down. We shouldn't even begin speculating about getting Merriman. SD will lock him up for a long time and I honestly doubt our cap situation allows us to go after two big names in back-to-back years. Getting a DE in next year's draft might be great though.



why? so we can move him to saftey?

14 years now without a DE in the draft. i thought this was the year, but vinny pulled a fast one on us.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

I think Blache will want Daniels in to keep us tough on the run. Were we ever going to start 2009 with Orakpo & Carter as the DE's ? I don't think so.

We will see plenty of Orakpo at DE over the next ten years. If he starts out at SLB, so be it.

[jujuskinsfan]

I read that Zorn said he wanted Orakpo to play LB on 1st and 2nd downs and DE on 3rd downs. Fine by me.

[HigSkin]

Let's face it, we need immediate impact from a 1st round draft choice. If that's at linebacker, then get him on the field. Obviously, others believe rookie linebackers have a bigger impact in their first year.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807d12f0&template=with-video&confirm=true

"Many NFL personnel evaluators believe that linebackers generally have the best chance for immediate success because they have the greatest freedom to utilize the full extent of their athletic skills. Find a linebacker who runs fast, changes directions quickly, and consistently puts himself in the vicinity of the ball, and you likely have one who will crack the starting lineup and stay there."

[The Diesel]

Can the Redskins try anything without everyone on this board thinking the sky is falling?

Listen to what has been said over the last few days. The 'Skins said they know he can play with his hand down, but they just want to see how he does as an SLB. If he can perform well there, you will see him there on First and Second Down so we have our best eleven on the field. On Pass downs, you will see him and Carter on the ends, with Griffin and Daniels/Wynn in the middle.

Let's let the coaches make the strategy and cheer on our team for once.


Amen. Although it does make for good comedy. I come to this board a few times a week for a good laugh.

[Laron Burgundy]

why? so we can move him to saftey?

14 years now without a DE in the draft. i thought this was the year, but vinny pulled a fast one on us.

OLB is a much more pressing need than DE was this year. However, with 3 of our DE's having their contracts expire this year and 2 of them being really old it is only a matter of time before we upgrade that spot in the draft, or free agency. I'm sure Vinny is currently trying to trade away next year's first rounder for Peppers anyhow.

[Ingtar]

I don't see the problem with Orakpo being worked out at SAM right now. I think it is a good spot for him to use his athleticism while playing DE on 3rd down. I think once Daniels/Wynn are done, Orakpo will be the full time DE unless he plays lights out at SAM. This will give him a year to bulk up some more and add 10 lbs or so.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

OLB is a much more pressing need than DE was this year. However, with 3 of our DE's having their contracts expire this year and 2 of them being really old it is only a matter of time before we upgrade that spot in the draft, or free agency. I'm sure Vinny is currently trying to trade away next year's first rounder for Peppers anyhow.


no its not.

our biggest issue with this defense is pressure from the front four. its been the biggest issue with this defense for many years. so we finally draft a pass rushing DE with the size to be a good run stopper, and what do we do? we move him to linebacker.

can the guy even cover??? you really wanna stick a rookie defensive end at linebacker and force him to cover runningbacks out of the backfield at 270 pounds in his rookie season at a position hes never played (or has played in spot duty)? sounds like our team just didnt do its homework and were plugging him in there because we dont wanna put blades or fincher in that spot.

we need a pass rush, not a linebacker. phillip daniels is not a starting defensive end anymore. the second a team sees him on the field, theyre gonna know what D were in, they can audible all the want to a passing play, roll to daniels side, and have all day to find targets. plus theyll try to exploit the hell out of orakpo if he even shows a glimpse of struggling in coverage. and our LB pass coverage has been an area of weakness with our LB corp IMO.

[corrupt3d]

no its not.

our biggest issue with this defense is pressure from the front four. its been the biggest issue with this defense for many years. so we finally draft a pass rushing DE with the size to be a good run stopper, and what do we do? we move him to linebacker.

can the guy even cover??? you really wanna stick a rookie defensive end at linebacker and force him to cover runningbacks out of the backfield at 270 pounds in his rookie season at a position hes never played (or has played in spot duty)? sounds like our team just didnt do its homework and were plugging him in there because we dont wanna put blades or fincher in that spot.

we need a pass rush, not a linebacker. phillip daniels is not a starting defensive end anymore. the second a team sees him on the field, theyre gonna know what D were in, they can audible all the want to a passing play, roll to daniels side, and have all day to find targets. plus theyll try to exploit the hell out of orakpo if he even shows a glimpse of struggling in coverage. and our LB pass coverage has been an area of weakness with our LB corp IMO.



I see where you're coming from BLC but Mack Brown has said he was decent in the SLB position in spot duty.

I'm sure this isn't a long term thing - turning Orakpo into an LB - but for mini-camps, why the hell not? If putting Wilson and Orakpo on the field with one at SLB and blitzing him is an option then why not practice it when it least counts?

I highly doubt, going into the season, that they'll play Orakpo at hte SLB position if he isn't good at it and I'm sure he'll see a lot of time at the DE position.

[BKSkinsFan]

I'm not going to get too upset over this yet, it was just a minicamp practice. I really am hoping we're not putting a guy who consistently gets to the QB and benches 525 lbs to coverage duties on Witten, and the other great TEs we see in our division.

[Hunter_R]

I'm not going to get too upset over this yet, it was just a minicamp practice. I really am hoping we're not putting a guy who consistently gets to the QB and benches 525 lbs to coverage duties on Witten, and the other great TEs we see in our division.
I hope not, too, but it looks like that's been the Skins' plan for months.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I see where you're coming from BLC but Mack Brown has said he was decent in the SLB position in spot duty.

I'm sure this isn't a long term thing - turning Orakpo into an LB - but for mini-camps, why the hell not? If putting Wilson and Orakpo on the field with one at SLB and blitzing him is an option then why not practice it when it least counts?

I highly doubt, going into the season, that they'll play Orakpo at hte SLB position if he isn't good at it and I'm sure he'll see a lot of time at the DE position.


i really hope youre right because judging from zorns comments, hes our new OLB. hes the new marcus washington, who wasnt a defensive end, and frankly wasnt anything impressive in rushing the passer from the DE spot. he ended up with 5 sacks for the whole season doing exactly what theyre claiming orakpo is gonna be doing.

i want orakpo to be a DE, and get as many reps there as possible. throwing him into the OLB spot makes us look stupid. and at first i thought this was just for minicamp, but zorns comments make it seem like a permanant thing.

[corrupt3d]

i really hope youre right because judging from zorns comments, hes our new OLB. hes the new marcus washington, who wasnt a defensive end, and frankly wasnt anything impressive in rushing the passer from the DE spot. he ended up with 5 sacks for the whole season doing exactly what theyre claiming orakpo is gonna be doing.

i want orakpo to be a DE, and get as many reps there as possible. throwing him into the OLB spot makes us look stupid. and at first i thought this was just for minicamp, but zorns comments make it seem like a permanant thing.


From today's minicamp notes, it sounds like he did DL work and whatever Palermo told him to fix, he did almost instantly.

Again, I dont think Zorn's comments point to him being our new SLB, but I can see Orakpo taking time at SLB. For the record though, Mathias Kiwanuka never took time at SLB in college but was considered the SLB going into 2007 (until he got injured). By all accounts he looked kinda decent at that position (moved back to DE out of necessity).

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

From today's minicamp notes, it sounds like he did DL work and whatever Palermo told him to fix, he did almost instantly.

Again, I dont think Zorn's comments point to him being our new SLB, but I can see Orakpo taking time at SLB. For the record though, Mathias Kiwanuka never took time at SLB in college but was considered the SLB going into 2007 (until he got injured). By all accounts he looked kinda decent at that position (moved back to DE out of necessity).

well i never hope for injuries but im kinda getting to the point where im hoping daniels shows that hes too old to start and orakpo has to get reps. counting on phillip daniels and renaldo wynn to start at DE? i mean seriously. we can talk about how we trust greg blache, but thats just plain retarded. 36 year old one dimensional DEs coming off of brutal surgery are not guys you rely on. especialaly when you have a potential 22 year old stuff at the position.

[Drunken Master III]

Im sorry but I can't blindly like what Blache has done just because we had the No. 4 ranked D last season. If you actually take time to look at the reason we were ranked so high it has a lot to do with our secondary to tell you the truth. Our secondary is coached by Jerry Gray and Stephen Jackson.... catch my drift? I think we give Blache far too much credit. I am not saying he isn't a good coach but he is no Gregg Williams.

Moving Orakpo to OLB is a mistake. Having him try to concentrate on 2 positions is an even bigger mistake. Rak is a defensive end. There are numerous effective DE's that are the same size as Orakpo. Last season our only problem was not getting pressure on the QB. So we draft a DE and want to move him to OLB? Am I missing something? The loyalty to Andre Carter needs to stop now. He has done next to nothing in his tenure here. Yea he got 10 sacks one season but where was the consitant pressure. Most of those sacks were coverage sacks. Therefore in my mind they are overrated. Im sure most of us thought we were getting a beast of a DE when we drafted Orakpo. If he moves to OLB its a waste.

[corrupt3d]

well i never hope for injuries but im kinda getting to the point where im hoping daniels shows that hes too old to start and orakpo has to get reps. counting on phillip daniels and renaldo wynn to start at DE? i mean seriously. we can talk about how we trust greg blache, but thats just plain retarded. 36 year old one dimensional DEs coming off of brutal surgery are not guys you rely on. especialaly when you have a potential 22 year old stuff at the position.


Oh, I'm sure with all Vinny said before, during and after the draft that Orakpo will start at DE. But I think I'd take Daniels on running downs as of right now at least.

[Laron Burgundy]

no its not.

our biggest issue with this defense is pressure from the front four. its been the biggest issue with this defense for many years. so we finally draft a pass rushing DE with the size to be a good run stopper, and what do we do? we move him to linebacker.

can the guy even cover??? you really wanna stick a rookie defensive end at linebacker and force him to cover runningbacks out of the backfield at 270 pounds in his rookie season at a position hes never played (or has played in spot duty)? sounds like our team just didnt do its homework and were plugging him in there because we dont wanna put blades or fincher in that spot.

we need a pass rush, not a linebacker. phillip daniels is not a starting defensive end anymore. the second a team sees him on the field, theyre gonna know what D were in, they can audible all the want to a passing play, roll to daniels side, and have all day to find targets. plus theyll try to exploit the hell out of orakpo if he even shows a glimpse of struggling in coverage. and our LB pass coverage has been an area of weakness with our LB corp IMO.

Yes, it is. Yeah, we're missing a pass rush, but you seem to have forgotten that we lost our starting olb from last year and have virtually no depth at the position. Oh yeah, sure, who trusts orakpo in coverage? But was there a better option? Daniels is a better de than Fincher or Blades are olbs.

And let's take a trip down memory lane. When was the last time the redskins had a good pass rush? 2002 and 2004 were good years. How many sacks did our starting defensive ends get in 2004? 6. How many sacks did our starting defensive ends get in 2002? 11. How many sacks did our starting olb's get in 2004? 7. And in 2002? 14. Weird, so when we were successful getting to the qb our olb's had more sacks than our defensive ends. How about the last two years? 2007 DE: 12. 2007 OLB: 8. 2008 DE: 8. 2008 OLB: 2. No, I'm sure you're right, the only way to upgrade our pass rush was by making orakpo a DE. He'll never blitz ever.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Yes, it is. Yeah, we're missing a pass rush, but you seem to have forgotten that we lost our starting olb from last year and have virtually no depth at the position. Oh yeah, sure, who trusts orakpo in coverage? But was there a better option? Daniels is a better de than Fincher or Blades are olbs.

And let's take a trip down memory lane. When was the last time the redskins had a good pass rush? 2002 and 2004 were good years. How many sacks did our starting defensive ends get in 2004? 6. How many sacks did our starting defensive ends get in 2002? 11. How many sacks did our starting olb's get in 2004? 7. And in 2002? 14. Weird, so when we were successful getting to the qb our olb's had more sacks than our defensive ends. How about the last two years? 2007 DE: 12. 2007 OLB: 8. 2008 DE: 8. 2008 OLB: 2. No, I'm sure you're right, the only way to upgrade our pass rush was by making orakpo a DE. He'll never blitz ever.

it shouldnt be a contest to see how poor our Dline can do in pass pressure. we need pressure out of those guys, its the one thing missing from our D being that elite force. and id much rather have blades get a full year of PT. hes supposed to be the future right? might as well get started now. fletcher aint getting any younger, and blades could use the experience. id rather have 1 hole out of 11 guys on defense in the OLB spot, then create two holes at DE and OLB if orakpo cant make the transition.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Yes, it is. Yeah, we're missing a pass rush, but you seem to have forgotten that we lost our starting olb from last year and have virtually no depth at the position. Oh yeah, sure, who trusts orakpo in coverage? But was there a better option? Daniels is a better de than Fincher or Blades are olbs.

And let's take a trip down memory lane. When was the last time the redskins had a good pass rush? 2002 and 2004 were good years. How many sacks did our starting defensive ends get in 2004? 6. How many sacks did our starting defensive ends get in 2002? 11. How many sacks did our starting olb's get in 2004? 7. And in 2002? 14. Weird, so when we were successful getting to the qb our olb's had more sacks than our defensive ends. How about the last two years? 2007 DE: 12. 2007 OLB: 8. 2008 DE: 8. 2008 OLB: 2. No, I'm sure you're right, the only way to upgrade our pass rush was by making orakpo a DE. He'll never blitz ever.
Nice information.

Key variable: Albert Haynesworth. :)

[Englands Team]

Could it be that at this point in time his most immediate impact on the team will be a SLB and 3rd pass rusher. As he matures and gaines experience he can start at end. There is a more pressing need at SLB and he could fix it.

Linebackers also tend to contribute more early in their carears than linemaen. It took Mario Williams a season to adjust. Why not adjust to the mental and physical speed of the game from SLB.

[stevemcqueen1]

maybe he was just filling in for rocky then. to get him on the field.

They want to see what he can do at LB now in the early stages of the offseason. Mainly, they want to see if they have the option of giving him snaps at LB. My guess is that he wont be ready for doing much at LB beyond blitzing anytime soon.

[cphil006]

I don't care if Orakpo starts out at LB, DE, or even RB...

I only care if Orakpo starts out making plays... and lots of them with no mistakes...

[Leonard Washington]

I knew Blache would take him out of positon. Hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come. Put the kid at DE.

:chair:

typical redskins craziness. they love forcing people into schemes instead catering to their strengths. :doh:

hopefully this is just a minicamp thing. :fingersx:

[StillUnknown]

i have more trust in Orakpo to stop the run from as a DE than i do of him trying to cover RB or TE's as a LB

[TheLongshot]

i really hope youre right because judging from zorns comments, hes our new OLB. hes the new marcus washington, who wasnt a defensive end, and frankly wasnt anything impressive in rushing the passer from the DE spot. he ended up with 5 sacks for the whole season doing exactly what theyre claiming orakpo is gonna be doing.

i want orakpo to be a DE, and get as many reps there as possible. throwing him into the OLB spot makes us look stupid. and at first i thought this was just for minicamp, but zorns comments make it seem like a permanant thing.

Well, you were likely to be disappointed anyways. Orakpo wasn't likely to be the starter at DE anyways. He's still probably got a lot to learn about stopping the run, since most of the time he was being turned loose onto the QB. That means that he was likely only going to play DE on passing downs anyways.

The only thing that changes here is that he gets on the field more often than he otherwise would have. I don't see this as being a bad thing.

[Hunter_R]

well i never hope for injuries but im kinda getting to the point where im hoping daniels shows that hes too old to start and orakpo has to get reps. counting on phillip daniels and renaldo wynn to start at DE? i mean seriously. we can talk about how we trust greg blache, but thats just plain retarded. 36 year old one dimensional DEs coming off of brutal surgery are not guys you rely on. especialaly when you have a potential 22 year old stuff at the position.
You're also never supposed to hope a player sucks, but I hope Orakpo absolutely blows at coverage in the LB position. Hell, that worked for Andre Carter. They couldn't pry him out of the RDE for a future hall-of-famer.


typical redskins craziness. they love forcing people into schemes instead catering to their strengths.



hopefully this is just a minicamp thing.
I had hoped that line of thinking left with Gregg Williams.

[cphil006]

i have more trust in Orakpo to stop the run from as a DE than i do of him trying to cover RB or TE's as a LB

who is that lady in your sig? she looks so familiar...

[StillUnknown]

who is that lady in your sig? she looks so familiar...

gina carano, mixed-martial arts fighter

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Well, you were likely to be disappointed anyways. Orakpo wasn't likely to be the starter at DE anyways. He's still probably got a lot to learn about stopping the run, since most of the time he was being turned loose onto the QB. That means that he was likely only going to play DE on passing downs anyways.

The only thing that changes here is that he gets on the field more often than he otherwise would have. I don't see this as being a bad thing.


soooo dont you think they should have him working on his run stopping all through camp since that seems to be his weakness?

and you really wanna rely on phillip daniels this season? people think the oline is old and injured and want guys replaced on that line, yet phillip daniels whos 36 coming off of torn ACL surgery is somehow supposed to be a starter and relied upon? yeah that makes sense.

[TheLongshot]

soooo dont you think they should have him working on his run stopping all through camp since that seems to be his weakness?

and you really wanna rely on phillip daniels this season? people think the oline is old and injured and want guys replaced on that line, yet phillip daniels whos 36 coming off of torn ACL surgery is somehow supposed to be a starter and relied upon? yeah that makes sense.

I'm for getting the best 11 players on the field on both sides of the ball. If this gets him on the field more often and he can do it well, I don't know what there is to complain about.

[Rocky52Mc]

I just think you all need to chill and just realize how much of a stud our last defensive player was who was taken in the first round, LaRon Landry, and realize that this guy could very well turn out the same way. The first and seconds round has yielded plenty of benefits for the Redskins. Since 1999 - Champ Bailey, LaVar Arrington, Fred Smoot, Sean Taylor, LaRon Landry, Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, and now Brian Orakpo.

Landry didn't get a whole lot of time coming into the season, in-fact he missed a huge chunk of time due to his contract issue. I believe he wasn't at the point where Orakpo is now. Landry was taken at 6 and Orakpo was supposed to be taken at 5 and probably would have. He's learning a ton now and will be throughout his entire rookie process. He seems eager to learn and he wants to hit that field hard. Just relax.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I'm for getting the best 11 players on the field on both sides of the ball. If this gets him on the field more often and he can do it well, I don't know what there is to complain about.

as am i, and phillip daniels is not a better starting DE than orakpo. i think we'd both agree that orakpo is the future, and hopefuly hes the future at DE. the more reps he gets at the position, the better off he is. i find it very poor management to throw him into a role hes not familiar with because we have nobody else to fill the hole. daniels is a one dimensional dinosaur of a player, and should not be getting reps at DE over orakpo. he should be depth for DE, something were severely lacking.

[playoffsplz]

as am i, and phillip daniels is not a better starting DE than orakpo. i think we'd both agree that orakpo is the future, and hopefuly hes the future at DE. the more reps he gets at the position, the better off he is. i find it very poor management to throw him into a role hes not familiar with because we have nobody else to fill the hole. daniels is a one dimensional dinosaur of a player, and should not be getting reps at DE over orakpo. he should be depth for DE, something were severely lacking.

Totally Agree. I can't even add anything to that.

Another Redskin fubar...nothing new.

[TheLongshot]

as am i, and phillip daniels is not a better starting DE than orakpo. i think we'd both agree that orakpo is the future, and hopefuly hes the future at DE. the more reps he gets at the position, the better off he is. i find it very poor management to throw him into a role hes not familiar with because we have nobody else to fill the hole. daniels is a one dimensional dinosaur of a player, and should not be getting reps at DE over orakpo. he should be depth for DE, something were severely lacking.

The question isn't if Daniels (or Wynn for that matter) is better overall than Orakpo (tho they probably are right now), the question is is our options at starting RDE is better than our options for SLB? Personally, I think so, particularly since the role of RDE has been typically a run stopper.

To be honest, I don't expect all that much of an impact from Orakpo in his first year, since typically rookie pass rushing DEs have an adjustment period themselves, mostly because they don't usually come with a variety of moves to beat pro OL.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d8100be41&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true


There have been 12 defensive ends taken in the first round since 2005 -- three in each year. The 12 defensive ends have 39.5 sacks in their combined rookie seasons, which equates to 3.3 per player. Last year the three rookie defensive ends -- Chris Long (4.0 sacks), Derrick Harvey (3.5) and Lawrence Jackson (2.0) -- hit an average of 3.2. So is it realistic to think Tyson Jackson (No. 3 to Kansas City), Brian Orakpo (No. 13 to Washington), Larry English (No. 16 to San Diego) or Robert Ayers (No. 18 to Denver) will produce more than three or four sacks in 2009?

I asked one defensive line coach and one offensive line coach what the problems are for these defensive ends. The offensive line coach said, "These young pass rushers don't have enough ways to get to the QB, and after we see two or three games of pro tape, our tackles challenge them to bring something different and most can't. Then we shut them down."

The defensive line coach agreed, adding, "There are no college freshmen blocking in the pros, and most of the young defensive ends don't have the ability to keep the tackles' hands off them."

[mithong1]

you guys aren't thinking clearly here.. if we had rak starting at DE and had a small blades/mcintosh behind him at SAM, our opponents would just pummel us down the strong side ALL day long.

[djbubba4life]

Leave it to us to put one of our most solid picks in recent years in the wrong position

[Skinz4Life12]

i know dallas plays a 3-4 but it seems we are trying to use rak as a d. ware hybrid type player

[onnie007]

as am i, and phillip daniels is not a better starting DE than orakpo. i think we'd both agree that orakpo is the future, and hopefuly hes the future at DE. the more reps he gets at the position, the better off he is. i find it very poor management to throw him into a role hes not familiar with because we have nobody else to fill the hole. daniels is a one dimensional dinosaur of a player, and should not be getting reps at DE over orakpo. he should be depth for DE, something were severely lacking.

Uh, I would venture to say that Daniels is better suited at LDE against the run because of his size. Have Orakpo on the field at OLB would be awesome because we would be utilizing his versatility on first and second downs. And then on obvious pass situation on 3rd downs pull out Daniels and insert Orakpo in a 3-point stance. Because OLB is not where Orakpo played most its imperative the get started early in his preparation in that role. It makes a lot of sense to me. Orakpo will still get it done on 3rd down when we need him most. Daniels still has value to this team on 1st and 2nd downs and I think you are overlooking that aspect.

[onnie007]

you guys aren't thinking clearly here.. if we had rak starting at DE and had a small blades/mcintosh behind him at SAM, our opponents would just pummel us down the strong side ALL day long.

Thank you. Pass Rushing DEs = targets for the running game. See JT for us last year. This is where Daniels still adds value to defense. He can be a pillar of strength and not give ground in the running game. It would be nice to see Orakpo flying around and making tackles making him all the more confident and excited to get into a 3-point stance, pin his ears back, and just do what he does best with Hayneworth in the middle. I'm excited.

[artmonkforHOF]

Orakpo is not going to be a good OLB, he's too stiff. Keep him at DE and if you really need to find a body to play OLB, use Wilson.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The question isn't if Daniels (or Wynn for that matter) is better overall than Orakpo (tho they probably are right now), the question is is our options at starting RDE is better than our options for SLB? Personally, I think so, particularly since the role of RDE has been typically a run stopper.

To be honest, I don't expect all that much of an impact from Orakpo in his first year, since typically rookie pass rushing DEs have an adjustment period themselves, mostly because they don't usually come with a variety of moves to beat pro OL.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d8100be41&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

those numbers get a little hazy. some were turned into LBs, some were nose guards in a 3-4 which dont get sacks. and also, none of those guys were playing next to albert haynesworth.

i just want orakpo to be a complete player, and the more reps he gets at stopping the run, the better off his progression will be.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Thank you. Pass Rushing DEs = targets for the running game. See JT for us last year. This is where Daniels still adds value to defense. He can be a pillar of strength and not give ground in the running game. It would be nice to see Orakpo flying around and making tackles making him all the more confident and excited to get into a 3-point stance, pin his ears back, and just do what he does best with Hayneworth in the middle. I'm excited.

again, why are you just assuming he cant play the run? hes actually BIGGER than andre carter, and he learned how to stop the run pretty well? dont use jason taylors garbage performance as a barometer for a rookie coming in here with a clean slate. and if he needs work at stopping the run, now seems like the logically best time. coach him up and make it happen.

[scruffylookin]

I don't mind them experimenting with him at linebacker. It's only minicamp afterall.

What I will mind, a hell of alot, will be if they use him at linebacker and try to keep him out in coverage or as some kind of rover.

This guy is a pass rusher.

I don't care if it's from the DE position or OLB position, but for the love of god use his natural talent and please don't try and shoehorn him into a role that he's not suited for.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

No one has answered this question:

Why are we assuming that Philip Daniels, a player who is:

1. 56 years old
2. Coming off major knee surgery,
3. Wanted by NOBODY on the open market, and
4. Never exactly a game-changer to start with

is ready to be a force at DE? Is there even a guarantee he makes the team considering he was signed off the slag heap?

[scruffylookin]

No one has answered this question:

Why are we assuming that Philip Daniels, a player who is:

1. 56 years old
2. Coming off major knee surgery,
3. Wanted by NOBODY on the open market, and
4. Never exactly a game-changer to start with

is ready to be a force at DE? Is there even a guarantee he makes the team considering he was signed off the slag heap?

You're right of course, but the answer is pretty obvious.

Greg Blahhhhhhhh

Daniels is his boy and that gives Daniels an edge. Now after Daniels gets hurt again, that's when we'll see what they have in mind for Orakpo.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

No one has answered this question:

Why are we assuming that Philip Daniels, a player who is:

1. 56 years old
2. Coming off major knee surgery,
3. Wanted by NOBODY on the open market, and
4. Never exactly a game-changer to start with

is ready to be a force at DE? Is there even a guarantee he makes the team considering he was signed off the slag heap?


ive already asked this, nobody cared when i asked it, maybe they will when you do?

[The Full Monty]

Maybe Rob Jackson just sucks that much that Daniels has a shot at starting. I wish that wasn't the case.

[TheLongshot]

those numbers get a little hazy. some were turned into LBs, some were nose guards in a 3-4 which dont get sacks. and also, none of those guys were playing next to albert haynesworth.

Translation: I've got nuthin, so I'll throw out a bunch of excuses.


i just want orakpo to be a complete player, and the more reps he gets at stopping the run, the better off his progression will be.

You don't think playing OLB doesn't help him become more of a complete player? Personally, I look at it as taking advantage of his athleticism and put him into a position where he can move around a lot.

[laxpck]

You guys are rediculous. Glass half empty All the time.

You all ever heard of Adalius Thomas? FREAK ATHLETE. GOT LINED UP AT Safety,LB AnD DE in Baltimore packages. All situationally dependent. How did that work for them?

DUDE ORAKPO RUNS A 4.6 at 270lbs. Put him everywhere and anywhere. He is going to wreck shop.

You guys yelling at Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder, like they DIDNT take the best player at #13, for this are just PLAIN football ignorant.

[BKSkinsFan]

You guys are rediculous. Glass half empty All the time.

You all ever heard of Adalius Thomas? FREAK ATHLETE. GOT LINED UP AT Safety,LB AnD DE in Baltimore packages. All situationally dependent. How did that work for them?

DUDE ORAKPO RUNS A 4.6 at 270lbs. Put him everywhere and anywhere. He is going to wreck shop.

You guys yelling at Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder for this are just PLAIN football ignorant.

I'm not yelling at anyone yet, I will be upset if I see someone I think can get to the QB consistently being used to cover TEs on 1st and 2nd down. The same anger I had when Cooley was blocking Michael Strahan one on one. THAT is football ignorant.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Translation: I've got nuthin, so I'll throw out a bunch of excuses.



You don't think playing OLB doesn't help him become more of a complete player? Personally, I look at it as taking advantage of his athleticism and put him into a position where he can move around a lot.


lol at ive got nothing. lol at you naming guys who werent playing next to the best DT in football, and guys who dont even play the same position.

but if youd like to continue believing that nonsense, nobody is going to stop you.


learning how to play OLB in spot duty is helpful. turning him into a OLB is not helpful.

[TheLongshot]

I'm not yelling at anyone yet, I will be upset if I see someone I think can get to the QB consistently being used to cover TEs on 1st and 2nd down. The same anger I had when Cooley was blocking Michael Strahan one on one. THAT is football ignorant.

What we also don't want to see is a situation like last year where Taylor was being used in Daniels' role and not really be suited for it. It seems that Blache has put a lot of thought into how to use a player like Taylor (and since transferred that knowledge to guys like Orakpo and Wilson) and it will be interesting to see what those thoughts are.

[VaBeachRedskin]

You guys are rediculous. Glass half empty All the time.

You all ever heard of Adalius Thomas? FREAK ATHLETE. GOT LINED UP AT Safety,LB AnD DE in Baltimore packages. All situationally dependent. How did that work for them?

DUDE ORAKPO RUNS A 4.6 at 270lbs. Put him everywhere and anywhere. He is going to wreck shop.

You guys yelling at Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder, like they DIDNT take the best player at #13, for this are just PLAIN football ignorant.

Rex Ryan's system is different than anything out there in the NFL. He has also lined up Ngata at LB just to confuse the heck out of the opposing offense. Orakpo also seems more stiff in his movements in the open field than some of the other guys mentioned as slash type players.

[BKSkinsFan]

What we also don't want to see is a situation like last year where Taylor was being used in Daniels' role and not really be suited for it. It seems that Blache has put a lot of thought into how to use a player like Taylor (and since transferred that knowledge to guys like Orakpo and Wilson) and it will be interesting to see what those thoughts are.

Taylor may have not been used properly here last year, but I believe injury and age were the biggest factor in his lack of production.

Are you saying Taylor isn't suited to play DE? He seemed to do pretty well going to 6 or 7 pro bowls at that position in Miami.

[VaBeachRedskin]

Taylor may have not been used properly here last year, but I believe injury and age were the biggest factor in his lack of production.

Are you saying Taylor isn't suited to play DE? He seemed to do pretty well going to 6 or 7 pro bowls at that position in Miami.

RE and LE. They are two separate positions. Taylor played exceptionally well for the Dolphins at RE where he was allowed to freelance a lot.

[StillUnknown]

i'm just sayin even w/o Daniels and with Jason Taylor in the lineup when he was.....we were still top 10 against the run

i just want to Orakpo attacking the QB as much as possible. i'm fearing he'll get lost in coverage as a LB

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i'm just sayin even w/o Daniels and with Jason Taylor in the lineup when he was.....we were still top 10 against the run

i just want to Orakpo attacking the QB as much as possible. i'm fearing he'll get lost in coverage as a LB


agreed 100%. expecting a rookie DE to line up at linebacker and cover runningbacks at the NFL level is insanely stupid. and again, if run stopping is his major issue, he needs to work on run stopping, not learning how to be a linebacker.

unless hes going to play linebacker, which it looks like he will. defensive ends dont line up at linebacker on 2/3 of the snaps lol.

[BKSkinsFan]

RE and LE. They are two separate positions. Taylor played exceptionally well for the Dolphins at RE where he was allowed to freelance a lot.

I won't argue that LE and RE aren't very different, they are, I agree. Miami put him in the position where he gave them the most production, played to his strengths. We chose to put him elsewhere and got very little from him. Just as we chose to put Archuletta in a role he couldn't handle. Just as we put Cooley in a role of blocking a future HOF DE. All going back to my point of, if this guy can get to the QB consistently, what good is it to have him out covering TEs?

[VaBeachRedskin]

i'm just sayin even w/o Daniels and with Jason Taylor in the lineup when he was.....we were still top 10 against the run

i just want to Orakpo attacking the QB as much as possible. i'm fearing he'll get lost in coverage as a LB

Taylor was benched in favor of Demetric Evans. That was the key to our run defense holding up last season.

[TheLongshot]

Are you saying Taylor isn't suited to play DE? He seemed to do pretty well going to 6 or 7 pro bowls at that position in Miami.

I'm saying that Taylor wasn't suited for the role Blache gave him last year.

[BKSkinsFan]

I'm saying that Taylor wasn't suited for the role Blache gave him last year.

Who takes the blame for that? A perennial probowl DE, or a coach who didn't put a great player in position to be successful? I'm just hoping we're not repeating mistakes like we seem prone to doing.

If this guy's bread and butter is playing out in space and occasionally rushing the QB, that's where he should be. It's obviously not what many of us thought we were getting, and not truly addressing our biggest need.

[stoney26]

i'm just sayin even w/o daniels and with jason taylor in the lineup when he was.....we were still top 10 against the run

i just want to orakpo attacking the qb as much as possible. I'm fearing he'll get lost in coverage as a lb

+1

[VaBeachRedskin]

Who takes the blame for that? A perennial probowl DE, or a coach who didn't put a great player in position to be successful? I'm just hoping we're not repeating mistakes like we seem prone to doing.

If this guy's bread and butter is playing out in space and occasionally rushing the QB, that's where he should be. It's obviously not what many of us thought we were getting, and not truly addressing our biggest need.

The front office that went out and got him. You can't blame the player for being put in a situation that does not fit him and you can't blame the coach for being given a piece that doesn't fit his puzzle.