WP: Early Warning On Redskins' Offensive Line (M.E.T.)

[JimmyZ123]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/01/AR2009050103847.html

yeah our D is gonna be special this year, but our o line could be god awful and thus our Offense will be god awful

Zorn saying we need to find a diamond or two in the rough is a pretty bad sign

[Soup]

Add to the fact that MOss, Thomas, Kelly, Thrash are already getting the injury bug. I believe only Randle El will be out in practice today.

The oline is a problem but don't expect the FO to do anything about it. They like their line up and will stay with it.

What I expect is a new WR coming into camp. The way vinny operates when he sees a specific spot getting injuries he gets itchy and trades for a player(Jason Taylor). By the end of preseason I think the redskins will have a new WR on the team. I don't know who, it could be Plax, Boldin, Chad but I feel that vinny will pull the trigger and get one of those guys.

They will stay with the Oline, which is a sad thing but no matter what the fans say the FO will not go out and get anymore OLine players. That's just the way it is

[jnhay]

Who is the NFL executive JLC always gets to criticize the Redskins? Am I just overlooking the positive comments the executives have given?

[Travdaskin]

Add to the fact that MOss, Thomas, Kelly, Thrash are already getting the injury bug. I believe only Randle El will be out in practice today.

The oline is a problem but don't expect the FO to do anything about it. They like their line up and will stay with it.

What I expect is a new WR coming into camp. The way vinny operates when he sees a specific spot getting injuries he gets itchy and trades for a player(Jason Taylor). By the end of preseason I think the redskins will have a new WR on the team. I don't know who, it could be Plax, Boldin, Chad but I feel that vinny will pull the trigger and get one of those guys.

They will stay with the Oline, which is a sad thing but no matter what the fans say the FO will not go out and get anymore OLine players. That's just the way it is

Which is funny, because this franchise is best known for having THE HOGS, go fkkin figure!!!

[paintrain]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/01/AR2009050103847.html

yeah our D is gonna be special this year, but our o line could be god awful and thus our Offense will be god awful

Zorn saying we need to find a diamond or two in the rough is a pretty bad sign
First of all it was Portis that said that and you can't take anything he says seriously.

Secondly, typical JLC sky is falling on the offensive line crap. Does anyone honestly believe we are going into the season starting Devin Clark and Chad Rinehart?!? As with every NFL team, if your starters go down then you have a drop off in talent.

The media's favorite offseason NFC East team had so much depth that when they realized their tackles were too old to re-sign they gave 6 years and 40 million to a 29 year old tackle coming off of a torn ACL and gave up a 1st round pick and 6 years 60 million dollars to a LT that gave up 11.5 sacks last season.

Don't feed into the gloom and doom bs that surrounds his articles.

[bgreg]

First of all it was Portis that said that and you can't take anything he says seriously.

Secondly, typical JLC sky is falling on the offensive line crap. Does anyone honestly believe we are going into the season starting Devin Clark and Chad Rinehart?!? As with every NFL team, if your starters go down then you have a drop off in talent.

The media's favorite offseason NFC East team had so much depth that when they realized their tackles were too old to re-sign they gave 6 years and 40 million to a 29 year old tackle coming off of a torn ACL and gave up a 1st round pick and 6 years 60 million dollars to a LT that gave up 11.5 sacks last season.

Don't feed into the gloom and doom bs that surrounds his articles.

Seriously, guys, relax. This guy is right - it was Portis, not Coach Zorn that said that. We brought in new lineman, give them a chance before you freak out.

[DieselPwr44]

Vinny's motto:

Don't draft a position until it's clear that you absolutely have to.


There is no forward thinking at the Park.

[paintrain]

Who is the NFL executive JLC always gets to criticize the Redskins? Am I just overlooking the positive comments the executives have given?

It's like he has one go to guy who has as much of an axe to grind against the Redskins as he does. It seems like all of his sources are negative ones. Maybe he'd be happier covering the Lions.

[campbellcooleyconnection]

key line in that aticle "the staff DOES NOT view jansen as a starter anymore" YAY!!!:D

[Soup]

Which is funny, because this franchise is best known for having THE HOGS, go fkkin figure!!!


I worry that it might be a joe bugel issue. I've heard and read that he just likes older oline players and he lives and dies with his starters. I mean, its a sure thing that vinny and snyder have went up to joe bugel and asked if can win with that oline. Bugel probably fights for that Oline like their his kids.

[Mark The Homer]

JimmyZ-

10. When posting anything concerning news articles from outside sources,

...please title your thread in the following format: "SOURCE SHORTFORM: HEADLINE" (Ex. WP: Redskins Sign CB Shawn Springs).

Please edit your Thread Title. Thanks

[Sawyer5500]

We brought in Jeremy Bridges to minicamp for a tryout. Check out what Rotoworld has to say about him. He has had some off the field problems but he should be our starting RT.


The Redskins are hosting free agent OLs Jeremy Bridges and Frank Davis on a tryout basis at their weekend minicamp.
Bridges, 29, is a starting caliber player whose market value vanished due to off-field concerns. He can play right tackle (a need area for the Skins) or right guard. Davis also has starting experience, but was out of football in '08.

[flexxskins]

The o-line is a scary situation. But, what's even scarier is the fact that we've done nothing to address it.

We just keep putting band-aids on it.

[ECU-ALUM]

the o-line is a scary situation. But, what's even scarier is the fact that we've done nothing to address it.

We just keep putting band-aids on it.

qft!

[Metalhead387]

It's only May, that's a lot of time for the O-line to get healed up. Not surprising about Moss and others being injured, it happens every year around this time.

[wysknz1]

I said it before, I'll say it again. I hope with a dynamic D that the Offense will throttle up to wide open and take some chances they weren't able to last year.

The defense was good last year, but they just didn't seem solid enough to take chances with. Especially with the ball on their side of the 50.

[chipwhich]

Wow a hatchet piece by J La C. Who woulda thunk that?

[moondog]

This sounds more like JLC hating on the skins than anything. He's right, our starters are old and have had a lot of injury problems in the past. But we know our projected starters for the beginning of the season and Zorn as well as others have been relatively high on Clark and Rhino since last year about how they have come on. I'm not saying potential pro-bowlers, but I'm saying I think they are good backups who are very young and could develop into starters by next year. I for one like these two guys and Williams the new center.

As far as Mike Williams, yeah, it's a huge long shot. Again though, if he does lose weight and can play, he instantly would give us much more push in the run game, especially at the goal line. But that is being very optimistic. But if you're bringing in 120 players for mini camp, you're obviously hoping guys like this can prove something.

[addicted]

Scary? Nope, that's reality people.

The coaches can say over and over again that ignoring the Offensive Line in the draft again this year was the right thing to do, that they didn't see any prospects worth drafting, that they haven't found that veteran guy to sign in FA, and that the position is ok but when you see a lineup such as:

Clark, Dockery, Rabach, Rinehart, Heyer.

You have no choice but to realize that we are totally screwed here. And the ones to blame for this isn't the players for a change, its the philosophy of the people making these choices. All of the blame for the offensive line troubles awaiting us this season should fall completely on Vinny Cerrato and Joe Bugels shoulders. Expecting our older players to last a full season at this point in thier careers is stupid. Spending all of that money in FA and only bringing in Dockery a player who was cut because his last team didn't think was worth his contract and expecting all of these issues to disapear is even dumber. And ignoring these players in the draft completely was the worst mistake of them all. The men who make those decisions should pay next offseason, Vinny and Joe. I'm ready to see them both be fired.

Sure we needed LBers but this offseason we have completely ignored our greatest need all because the coaches think they are going to find some "diamond in the rough" which I believe is wrong to think. It won't matter how great our pass rush is, or our corners play if the offense can't keep Jason standing up. With offensive line problems our offense will shut down. I was begging and begging all offseason for offensive help and we got none of it minus Dockery which is good but not enough. If the coaches who's job it is to get the team ready to play can't see how great of a need offensive linemen really is to the success of this team then fire them. Joe Bugel's not a savior and he can't turn garbage into a full course meal. If he had stressed to the front office how important upgrading all of these positions was and he was ignored then he gets a pass. However I never read anything about that in the offseason. I have no choice but to think one of the primary reasons we haven't seen more improvement on the line is because Bugel thinks too much of his ability and honestly doesn't see much of a problem there. Since he thinks he can "coach up" players and make them stars which hasn't happened for us in years and years he likely told Vinny the position was ok and that's why it was ignored. Blame the Offensive line coach for that. And blame Vinny for being so stupid he listened to that and ignored the position based off his coaches recommendation.

Our philosophy this offseason hasn't made much sense to me. We had the #4 ranked Defense in the entire league and all but one of our draft picks and one FA were players signed to the Defense. I think the record started skipping in Vinny's head this year and he listened too much to "Fix the Defense"...I don't agree with this and never have. We should have addressed the offense. We didn't and we will be paying for it this year.

The idea that there wasn't any offensive linemen players worth taking in the draft is flat out wrong. For one, if that were true why in the hell did we sign after the draft a bunch of guys that play this position? These guys weren't worth a draft pick but they are worth being on the playing field? WTH? Secondly, why didn't other teams agree with that and instead went out and drafted offensive linemen after our picks? Last time I checked our draft record pretty much sucked (10 picks last year, one player showed up) so how can any reasonable fan believe they were right about that? The point to me was that even after our second half collapse last season management and coaches still doesn't understand how important this position really is and thinks they can toss anyone in there and play them. The best offensive lines play the same players game after game and the players know who's covering who and trust one another. How can you build that throwing different players at that spot game after game?

We are going to have no better then an 8-8 record this year because of the offensive line problems. Because of the offensive line issues we are likely to not see Jason Campbell at his best and because he's going to be under so much pressure he's likely gone next year. And lastly we will be looking next offseason at massive offensive needs to address at the QB and line issues. The only good thing I see about this is at least next year I can hope we follow this years plan and draft all offensive players and positions and not defense. I can hope right?

[Hooper]

What's crazy is it's clear they knew the offensive line was a problem and they still did nothing even remotely significant to address it. You can't rely on other teams' castoffs to fix your problems -- especially when the coaching staff admits they have little faith in guys like Rhinehart. That's not a plan.

[flexxskins]

I said it before, I'll say it again. I hope with a dynamic D that the Offense will throttle up to wide open and take some chances they weren't able to last year.

The defense was good last year, but they just didn't seem solid enough to take chances with. Especially with the ball on their side of the 50.Did you even read the article? What on earth does your quote have to do with what is being discussed in here?:doh:


This sounds more like JLC hating on the skins than anything. He's right, our starters are old and have had a lot of injury problems in the past. But we know our projected starters for the beginning of the season and Zorn as well as others have been relatively high on Clark and Rhino since last year about how they have come on. I'm not saying potential pro-bowlers, but I'm saying I think they are good backups who are very young and could develop into starters by next year. I for one like these two guys and Williams the new center.

As far as Mike Williams, yeah, it's a huge long shot. Again though, if he does lose weight and can play, he instantly would give us much more push in the run game, especially at the goal line. But that is being very optimistic. But if you're bringing in 120 players for mini camp, you're obviously hoping guys like this can prove something.I personally don't see where JLC is hating on the Redskins in this article. Basically everything that he said about our o-line is a fact. A lot of us are starting to use JLC as a punching bag to release 17 years of frustration.

Also, what exactly are you basing your opinion about thinking Clark and Rinehart are good back ups and could develop into starters? How would you know that?

[Koolblue13]

I am not worried at all. Samuels and Thomas will be back and in true form by OTAs or Camp at the latest and it's not like they need a ton of work to get it rolling again, they are two of the best at their positions.

Dock and Casey being healthy and learning to work together is great and all these young/new guys getting time as starters is a very good thing that needs to happen.

It's only freaking May.

[TheLongshot]

Ooh, the O-Line backups are scary because we have young, developing players back there. :rolleyes:

This is an article anyone can write about any team. When you randomly replace some of the starters with their backups, it probably would look a little scary.

The only thing I would consider scary about that lineup is Clark, and to be honest I don't think there are many situations where he'd be the first choice to replace Samuels. Heyer would be the first choice and then you'd bring Jansen in to replace Heyer. Heyer isn't scary since he's proven that he can at least be solid at RT. Rinehart would be no scarier than any guy we would have drafted after the first round.

Anyways, the team expects Samuels and Thomas to be back for the season, so this excersize is pointless other than to spread FUD. Come back to me if this ends up being a problem in training camp.

[1972FAN]

I think on the contrary. Our Offense will be average at least maybe a little better, with the vets healed, Dockery coming back , Rhienhart ready to start and the ace in the hole Mike williams if he's healthy, dedicated to the game and can loose another 30-40 lbs, we should O.K. The scary thought is if Williams did loose another 40 lbs, he still would be weighing 330 lbs

[Kindred]

The o-line is a scary situation. But, what's even scarier is the fact that we've done nothing to address it.

We just keep putting band-aids on it.


Look on the bright side, we've shored up our 4th rank defense with even more weapons. We're going to have to figure out how to use our defense to win games for us.

[LD0506]

Who is the NFL executive JLC always gets to criticize the Redskins? Am I just overlooking the positive comments the executives have given?


Same place he get's all his "inside info", his Magic H8 Ball of course

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i21/ThatDaveGuy7/H8Ball.jpg

[wysknz1]

Did you even read the article? What on earth does your quote have to do with what is being discussed in here?:doh:



?


If you can't see it, why bother explaining.:insane:

[terpfan]

When healthy our offensive line is really not that bad. Samuels and Thomas are pro bowl caliber players. Rabach and Dockery are above average players at their positions. The only weak link is RT. If we can get a decent season out of Heyer our OL should actually be considerably better than most. It's all about staying healthy though, as I guess you could say our biggest weakness is depth.

[DieselPwr44]

Come back to me when this ends up being a problem in the last eight weeks of the season.


Corrected for accuracy. ;)

[kramdizzle]

thank god we got a CB in the 3rd rd.........

[Darth Tater]

I worry that it might be a joe bugel issue. I've heard and read that he just likes older oline players and he lives and dies with his starters. I mean, its a sure thing that vinny and snyder have went up to joe bugel and asked if can win with that oline. Bugel probably fights for that Oline like their his kids.
Don't know why people say that. Except for Starke and Bostic, the Hogs were all rookies when they started for him and Bostic was a guy only in year 2 picked up off the NFL trash pile. You can only say he stayed with his guys but they were still in their prime. He NEVER had a problem when he had a solid opportunity to upgrade (Lachey anybody?), NEVER had problems starting rookies (the majority of the Hogs) and NEVER held on to a vet for sentimental reasons. When he took over the Cardinals, they actually had a decent o-line and he also had other priorities as the team in general was getting old.

[paintrain]

thank god we got a CB in the 3rd rd......... Yeah because so many quality OL were drafted soon after we picked him. :shot:

[Darth Tater]

The o-line is a scary situation. But, what's even scarier is the fact that we've done nothing to address it.

We just keep putting band-aids on it.

Nothing? Given the needs we had and the limited resources, we did all we could without ignoring other needs just as critical.

[cphil006]

We brought in Jeremy Bridges to minicamp for a tryout. Check out what Rotoworld has to say about him. He has had some off the field problems but he should be our starting RT.

our starting RT? Heyer? Jansen? Mike Williams??

[PROSCOUT]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/01/AR2009050103847.html

yeah our D is gonna be special this year, but our o line could be god awful and thus our Offense will be god awful

Zorn saying we need to find a diamond or two in the rough is a pretty bad sign

This offensive line is fine and they are healthy. Its wide receiver that needs some attention. Seems like every year our wideouts are injured and have hamstring problems. I said it last year and I will say it again. The Redskins need to fire somebody on their training staff and start looking at some of these trainers from other teams. You know which teams....the ones that DON'T have all these wide receiver hamstring and injury problems every year.

I guess trainer is not a sexy enough position to worry about for Vinnie/Danny.

[Bzapf]

OMG our back up O-line consists of young lineman with upside how horrible. J La is horrible. Just hating for the sake of hating.

[RRick]

It's like he has one go to guy who has as much of an axe to grind against the Redskins as he does. It seems like all of his sources are negative ones. Maybe he'd be happier covering the Lions.

Dude its so true, he is the redskins own personal pissy, bitter ex-wife. He hates the Team/Snyder, but his whole life is consumed with what the team/Snyder does, and collecting his monthly payments.
Our Own Ed Werder.

The sad part is, he probably was a good reporter,....whoops, then again, ex-wives were probably good wives at one time also.

[Darth Tater]

I said it before, I'll say it again. I hope with a dynamic D that the Offense will throttle up to wide open and take some chances they weren't able to last year.

The defense was good last year, but they just didn't seem solid enough to take chances with. Especially with the ball on their side of the 50.

Whether we will pull it off or not is a big question but it is pretty obvious that the strategy is to build a super defense, a solid special teams and an OK offense. As we know, several teams have executed and succeeded with such a strategy. In any case, you can only answer what you can answer and hope that someone from the NFL trash pile, the lights come on for some guy everyone thought was trash or some aging vet has one last great year.

[jfr3ek]

everyone relax. our o line does need work but we'll get it together by training camp. our line was great during the first half of the season last year! if we get more depth and rotate our line more, we'd be awesome. our back up linemen need to play like theyre about to start. with campbell implementing a quicker release, it should relieve less time for the line to hold.

[Shilsu]

Every year people like to say our depth on the lines is fine and every year people are wrong. Our depth on the defensive line at this point is OKAY, but the offensive line is once again a disaster waiting to happen.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's okay to hope that a motley crue of rejects and undrafted free agents turn out to be great, but making that your only strategy is calculated stupidity. It's like investing in lottery tickets.

[J-bomb]

Wait until the pads come on then we will see how talented our young OL are! I trust Buges evaluation of the guys we got and the ones we've brought in to help and add depth.

[stoney26]

JLC and is so called "sources" are starting to remind me of this guy.....

http://www.hbo.com/thewire/img/castcrew/character_season05/character/scotttempleton.jpg

[TheLongshot]

Every year people like to say our depth on the lines is fine and every year people are wrong. Our depth on the defensive line at this point is OKAY, but the offensive line is once again a disaster waiting to happen.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's okay to hope that a motley crue of rejects and undrafted free agents turn out to be great, but making that your only strategy is calculated stupidity. It's like investing in lottery tickets.

Go around the league. It is likely that you'll find that true in many places.

OL backups are often failed or over the hill starters or low round journeymen. Anyone who is worth a damn will probably be finding a starting job in short order, either with their current team or with another team.

[Shilsu]

Go around the league. It is likely that you'll find that true in many places.

OL backups are often failed or over the hill starters or low round journeymen. Anyone who is worth a damn will probably be finding a starting job in short order, either with their current team or with another team.

No, other teams are not like that.

Go around the league. It is likely that you'll find what you just said is false.

[Hooper]

Go around the league. It is likely that you'll find that true in many places.

OL backups are often failed or over the hill starters or low round journeymen. Anyone who is worth a damn will probably be finding a starting job in short order, either with their current team or with another team.

You'll find that on bad teams.

And it's not just our backups. We don't have a right tackle we know we can count on our roster. In other words, one of our biggest holes was not fixed.

Maybe Heyer steps up. Maybe Williams or some other castoff actually does something.

But counting on either of these things to happen is a recipe for disaster IMO.

[Hooper]

Every year people like to say our depth on the lines is fine and every year people are wrong. Our depth on the defensive line at this point is OKAY, but the offensive line is once again a disaster waiting to happen.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's okay to hope that a motley crue of rejects and undrafted free agents turn out to be great, but making that your only strategy is calculated stupidity. It's like investing in lottery tickets.

Agree 100 percent. It's insane how our front office doesn't learn from its mistakes.

[KNGwithOUTaCrwN]

Zorn saying we need to find a diamond or two in the rough is a pretty bad sign

it was actually CP that saidd this.

[bulldog]

the truth of the matter is the Redskins went into the offseason with too many holes to fill to be able enter training camp with lock-down solutions in place at each spot.

obviously, a big part of that is poor decisions made in past offseasons with failed draft picks, unproductive trades, etc.

but looking at 2009 in isolation the Redskins made moves to fill most of the holes.

Haynesworth and Orakpo fill 2 needs on the DL/OLB.

Hall and Barnes fill needs at CB.

Thomas fills the need for depth at WLB.

Dockery fills a huge hole at LG where the 36 year old Pete Kendall was close to unable to walk at times during the week between games because of arthritic knees.

Hunter Smith fills a need at P.

If the Redskins had not been silly enough to trade their #2 and #6 picks to the Dolphins for the overrated, over the hill Jason Taylor in 2008 there might have been that extra move to be made for a young RT.

But that was 8 months ago.

Dealing with the present team and what was possible since February, however, you have a line that does have the potential to be solid. It is not a top line, it is not a line that is going to dominate opponents across the board.

But Dockery over Kendall at LG gives the Redskins better size and strength inside, especially in short-yardage and goal line.

Chris Samuels will return to form from his offseason surgery. La Canfora presents a murkier picture of what to expect on the left side of the line in 2009 than I think is warranted.

At the right tackle spot, I agree with Brian Mitchell that Stephon Heyer at 25 showed he can play the position in 2007 during the team's run to the playoffs.

Continuing to interpose Jon Jansen into the lineup is doing nothing to help Heyer develop his game and thus improve the Redskins offense over time.

In a year that ended up 8-8 the Redskins lost valuable time in getting Heyer on the field to see him in extended time in Zorn's offense.

The Redskins front office and Zorn are correct in that the team SHOULD be able find a young developmental OL or two over time and see them make contributions down the road.

That is one of the secrets of the Redskins' continued success in the 1980's.

Mark May was the only offensive lineman the Redskins ever drafted in Round 1 during Gibbs years with the team through 1992.

It is perhaps in the inability to find those lower round draft picks and UDFAs that become contributors that is the most glaring shortcoming of the current Redskins team.

Where is the Ed Simmons (#6) or Raleigh McKenzie (#11) found late in Day 2?

Where are the UDFAs that helped form the original core, Jacoby and Bostic?

In review of 2008 there were enough negatives to go around but one that stuck out for me was the inability to break ties with Jansen and sit him down once and for all at RT.

He continued to make statements about being a pro bowl caliber player and going out and proving it, but in the end he merely showed that he is a player well beyond his prime.

Hopefully this year Bugel acts for the future and not for the past in finally moving beyond the greybeards when they are not performing well and working to get the younger players the team does have on the field QUICKER.

[Koolblue13]

Great post bulldog.

[paintrain]

Bulldog, voice of reason and logic. Excellent post!

[maskedsuperstar]

Our philosophy this offseason hasn't made much sense to me. We had the #4 ranked Defense in the entire league and all but one of our draft picks and one FA were players signed to the Defense.

Lets go down memory lane. Last year, the Skins couldn't pressure the QB. Fans complained about the Skins needing a DE and dominant DT. You got it. True, the Skins were 4th in the league in defense, but they didn't generate turnovers.


I think the record started skipping in Vinny's head this year and he listened too much to "Fix the Defense"...I don't agree with this and never have. We should have addressed the offense. We didn't and we will be paying for it this year.

Tell me, who would you have drafted? After the Skins picked Barnes

http://was.scout.com/2/860605.html

So, there you have it.


The idea that there wasn't any offensive linemen players worth taking in the draft is flat out wrong. For one, if that were true why in the hell did we sign after the draft a bunch of guys that play this position?

There was OT's worth taking in the draft. The Skins didn't have a 2nd round pick. Most of the good tackles were gone in the 1st. Would you have been happy if the Skins drafted Dirk Diggler in the 6th round? I mean, the draft wasn't full OL. "Hey lets take that OL, too make the Skins fans happy." What the Skins are saying is that Clark, Ross, Montgomery, Baiste are ahead of any draft pick.




These guys weren't worth a draft pick but they are worth being on the playing field?

Just because a player doesn't get drafted, doesn't mean he can't play in the NFL. Maybe their stock dropped because of an injury or off the field problems.



WTH? Secondly, why didn't other teams agree with that and instead went out and drafted offensive linemen after our picks?

http://was.scout.com/2/860605.html (http://was.scout.com/2/860605.html)



Last time I checked our draft record pretty much sucked (10 picks last year, one player showed up) so how can any reasonable fan believe they were right about that?

stop whining!!! How can you judge a draft after 1 year? Pretty ridiculous!






The point to me was that even after our second half collapse last season management and coaches still doesn't understand how important this position really is and thinks they can toss anyone in there and play them.

So, now you know more than Joe Bugel?:doh: If the Skins had drafted a OT in the 1st round, and turned out to be a bust............what would you say? Vinny this, Vinny that.




The best offensive lines play the same players game after game and the players know who's covering who and trust one another. How can you build that throwing different players at that spot game after game?

Really? You better do some research. The Steelers OL was worse than the Skins, but the won the SB. Explain?


We are going to have no better then an 8-8 record this year because of the offensive line problems. Because of the offensive line issues we are likely to not see Jason Campbell at his best and because he's going to be under so much pressure he's likely gone next year.

Oh please!!! Jason had chances to get rid of the ball, when he was in trouble. He took the sack. Jason was late on throws. Always late. I'm not saying he won't improve. But don't make any excuses for him.



And lastly we will be looking next offseason at massive offensive needs to address at the QB and line issues. The only good thing I see about this is at least next year I can hope we follow this years plan and draft all offensive players and positions and not defense. I can hope right?

Okay, go look at the Skins roster and tell me where a 5th, 6th or 7th rounder would have made an impact. At best, that draft pick would have been a back up. The Skins have that.

[titus3]

Great post bulldog. I think our oline will be fine. The young guys need time to develop and the older guys need time to heal and in Williams case, lose weight. They also need time to develop chemistry with each other and become more comfortable in the wco. I think alot of people forget that the oline also has a learning curve to go through with Zorn's system.

[Skinsinparadise]

the truth of the matter is the Redskins went into the offseason with too many holes to fill to be able enter training camp with lock-down solutions in place at each spot....The Redskins front office and Zorn are correct in that the team SHOULD be able find a young developmental OL or two over time and see them make contributions down the road.

I agree with many of the points in your post. I've probably defended their draft history (except the acting of trading picks) quite a bit leading up to this draft.

I'd say this was the first year where they made a draft move that really made me shake my head, in the 5th round drafting a recently converted LB with little experience, who no one I noticed talked about heading into the draft. And the kicker was he was suspended for his few last games, and by his own admission didn't expect to be drafted period.

In the 5th round there was some decently touted OL prospects to be had including James Meredith who most of the draft geeks expected to be a 2nd rounder and was touted as a good RT prospect.

Am I saying I know more than the Skin FO, not at all. But if Meredith becomes a strong player and this LB turns out to be a bust, it will be hard not to pick on the FO.

Last year they picked Rinehart in the 3rd and a lot of draft geeks saw him as a 6th or 7th rounder. So far he hasn't been able to get on the field. The O lineman they drafted in the late rounds under Bugel have been busts. Heyer seems like a decent prospect but few yet are shouting from the roof tops about him.

IMO the FO deserves the benefit of the doubt on drafting defense. But when it comes to drafting offense I don't see a huge pattern of success just yet. My point is I don't blame some people from being skeptical. And if lets say Meredith or Robinson become successes as the draft geeks expect them to be, it will drive me crazy considering our obvious need at those positions.

[Helmet959]

Bulldog I agree with most of your points. I only disagree with your assesment of Jansens diminishing production. I believe last season he was still recovering from his 2007 foot injury so its unfair to say he has nothing left in the tank. What's wrong with switching Heyer and Jansen throughout the year to keep them, especially Jansen, with some energy at the end of the season? You think that will hurt Heyer?

I honestly believe Jansen will win his job back. Heyer will be a good backup at either left or right tackle. Rhinehart will be Thomas backup. Dockery shouldnt need a backup. The center from Maryland can supposedly play, so he can backup Raybach. Then either the tackle from MD or Williams can be another floating backup. That doesn't sound like an awful line to me. We have tried to draft for depth in the past 4 years and it hasn't worked out. Molinaro and Marc Wilson come to mind. Our front guys are strong, and experienced. We have bulldozers for guards. I think we'll be alright on the line. And if we need another backup guard, we could pickup Kendall again as insurance.

As for JLC's article. I don't want to hear it until actual training camp starts and our starters hit the field finally.

[MrJL]

I worry that it might be a joe bugel issue. I've heard and read that he just likes older oline players and he lives and dies with his starters. I mean, its a sure thing that vinny and snyder have went up to joe bugel and asked if can win with that oline. Bugel probably fights for that Oline like their his kids.


Nah, the Hogs under Bugs always seemed to have a couple of versatile backups.

[Voice_of_Reason]

The only thing that anybody needs to read of this article is right under the headline:

By Jason La Confora.

Ok, everything after that is pure speculation, lies, and trash. No reason even reading it.

[brdawk20]

The media's favorite offseason NFC East team had so much depth that when they realized their tackles were too old to re-sign they gave 6 years and 40 million to a 29 year old tackle coming off of a torn ACL and gave up a 1st round pick and 6 years 60 million dollars to a LT that gave up 11.5 sacks last season.

I didn't know Dallas signed Jason Peters...

[MrJL]

The idea that there wasn't any offensive linemen players worth taking in the draft is flat out wrong. For one, if that were true why in the hell did we sign after the draft a bunch of guys that play this position? These guys weren't worth a draft pick but they are worth being on the playing field? WTH? Secondly, why didn't other teams agree with that and instead went out and drafted offensive linemen after our picks? Last time I checked our draft record pretty much sucked (10 picks last year, one player showed up) so how can any reasonable fan believe they were right about that?





things like this always annoy me. You just said the Redskins always screw up in the draft. If that's the case then how in the world will drafting O-linemen do anything? They always screw up in the draft. Therefor they would draft the wrong linemen. Okay, other teams drafted linemen. Maybe those guys wouldn't fit in our system. Or maybe they drafted linemen the Redskins wanted so that when their picks came up they weren't there.

[paintrain]

I didn't know Dallas signed Jason Peters...

How has Dallas been the media's favorite team this offseason? They've been fawning over the Eagles like they won the Super Bowl.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

The only thing that anybody needs to read of this article is right under the headline:

By Jason La Confora.

Ok, everything after that is pure speculation, lies, and trash. No reason even reading it.

We're agreeing more and more! :cool2:

Seriously though, this article had, to me, the redolence of pre-emptive Jason Campbell apologia to it. By continuing to make an issue of the offensive line, to the point where we pretend other teams stack HoFers behind the starters, he gets his excuse-making in proper order well before the season even comes to a close. This is important to continue to score those always-important personal interviews in Jason's car about how great Jason is and how nice it would be if the team could just be awesome to him and the league should just hand him the Total Aww-suhm Trophy ever year in place of the Lombardi.

[paintrain]

things like this always annoy me. You just said the Redskins always screw up in the draft. If that's the case then how in the world will drafting O-linemen do anything? They always screw up in the draft. Therefor they would draft the wrong linemen. Okay, other teams drafted linemen. Maybe those guys wouldn't fit in our system. Or maybe they drafted linemen the Redskins wanted so that when their picks came up they weren't there.

It's just a cop-out. Some people have to have someone to blame about things. It's been shown over and over that there weren't viable starting options at any of our picks that wouldn't have been a stretch by market value (where they went in relation to our pick).

[TheLongshot]

Bulldog I agree with most of your points. I only disagree with your assesment of Jansens diminishing production. I believe last season he was still recovering from his 2007 foot injury so its unfair to say he has nothing left in the tank. What's wrong with switching Heyer and Jansen throughout the year to keep them, especially Jansen, with some energy at the end of the season? You think that will hurt Heyer?

I honestly believe Jansen will win his job back. Heyer will be a good backup at either left or right tackle. Rhinehart will be Thomas backup. Dockery shouldnt need a backup. The center from Maryland can supposedly play, so he can backup Raybach. Then either the tackle from MD or Williams can be another floating backup. That doesn't sound like an awful line to me. We have tried to draft for depth in the past 4 years and it hasn't worked out. Molinaro and Marc Wilson come to mind. Our front guys are strong, and experienced. We have bulldozers for guards. I think we'll be alright on the line. And if we need another backup guard, we could pickup Kendall again as insurance.

As for JLC's article. I don't want to hear it until actual training camp starts and our starters hit the field finally.

I'd like to see Jansen regain his form as much as everyone else, but I'm not counting on it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

We're agreeing more and more! :cool2:

Seriously though, this article had, to me, the redolence of pre-emptive Jason Campbell apologia to it. By continuing to make an issue of the offensive line, to the point where we pretend other teams stack HoFers behind the starters, he gets his excuse-making in proper order well before the season even comes to a close. This is important to continue to score those always-important personal interviews in Jason's car about how great Jason is and how nice it would be if the team could just be awesome to him and the league should just hand him the Total Aww-suhm Trophy ever year in place of the Lombardi.
We just can't have that. :)

I agree. JLC has an agenda. Well he has several. Beat reporters aren't supposed to have agendas.

Everything he writes is just pure poppycock.

[AAARedskin]

I think the "glass is half full," and believe that the O-line will have a really decent year. Let the chips fall where they may. How many times do some of you ppl need to be reminded that Jason Campbell needs to get a quicker release and read the defense a little quicker? Hopefully with him being a little more seasoned, this will happen this season.....

[ST is my boy]

The o-line is a scary situation. But, what's even scarier is the fact that we've done nothing to address it.

We just keep putting band-aids on it.

The worst part is once again Jason Campbell will be blamed for the teams shortcomings, and the offensive line will not be held accountable for being inept.....our offense is going to SUCK this year....bank on it guys...

[MrJL]

Any news on if they're signing Bridges? I'm all for them trying to sign depth

[James Moss]

Who is the NFL executive JLC always gets to criticize the Redskins? Am I just overlooking the positive comments the executives have given?

I heard Vinny answer that on Redskins Nation a while back. Back when they were doing the whole sourcerer / source meter shtick. Vinny smirked and said that he knows who it is; it's that guy up in Chicago. He didn't elaborate.

[AirWarpath]

When healthy our offensive line is really not that bad. Samuels and Thomas are pro bowl caliber players. Rabach and Dockery are above average players at their positions. The only weak link is RT. If we can get a decent season out of Heyer our OL should actually be considerably better than most. It's all about staying healthy though, as I guess you could say our biggest weakness is depth.

Finally, the voice of reason speaks. I suspect that Thomas will be much improved over last season, due to offseason surgery. Perhaps most, if not all of us are aware that he played with a neck/spine injury that seriously limited him this past season. Dockery will most certainly be an upgrade over a player that had no knees. Samuels is still a high quality LT and we're decent at center. So, that leaves us with the much talked about RT position.

I believe that Heyer's biggest issue last season was that he played too high. I also believe there are some rumors floating around about Heyer, claiming that he is practicing with better technique now. Shouldn't that be a check mark in the plus column instead of the doom and gloom column?

So, it makes sense that we are hearing about the coaching staff looking for depth (diamond in the rough) at this point.

It's still early and players can improve between now and September. Why all the doom and gloom in May?

[James Moss]

Doesn't this sound very similar to JLC circa 2007 — when he criticized the Redskins for relying on aging vets Pucillo, Wade, Fabini as backups, while praising his hometown heroes, the Baltimore Ravens for their younger approach to o-line depth? Anybody remember what happened that year?

Both teams were forced to test their backups putting La Canfora's ranting to the test. The Redskins had already lost Jansen and Thomas when Wade, Rabach and Heyer all went downin Green Bay.

Baltimore, I believe lost Ogden, Flynn and Adam Terry, but Washington's situation was clearly worse yet the Redskins managed to make the playoffs while the Ravens ended 5- 11.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

and this is exactly why I did not like the orakpro selection. The offensive line is a trainwreck.

[J-bomb]

Any news on if they're signing Bridges? I'm all for them trying to sign depth

Signed him today pending physical and offered contracts to washington and hackett.

[Shilsu]

Doesn't this sound very similar to JLC circa 2007 — when he criticized the Redskins for relying on aging vets Pucillo, Wade, Fabini as backups, while praising his hometown heroes, the Baltimore Ravens for their younger approach to o-line depth? Anybody remember what happened that year?

Both teams were forced to test their backups putting La Canfora's ranting to the test. The Redskins had already lost Jansen and Thomas when Wade, Rabach and Heyer all went downin Green Bay.

Baltimore, I believe lost Ogden, Flynn and Adam Terry, but Washington's situation was clearly worse yet the Redskins managed to make the playoffs while the Ravens ended 5- 11.

Keep in mind the Ravens were fielding a QB carousel of an old and injured Steve McNair, bust Kyle Boller, and rookie Troy Smith and had a similar record as the Redskins... Until Todd Collins came in.

The Ravens' problems had much more to do with the QB situation than the O-Line situation.

[Chrispy4545]

To go along with a few other people, I think that this is just some more fear mongering by JLC because he doesn't know how to report.

Sure, our O-line needs depth and youth, and yeah we should have gone after some in the draft, but the situation is not as desperate as it's being made out to be. We have a lot of young up and coming talent on that line and I think they'll hold together well enough to support Jason Campbell if he turns out to have a good season.

[HA1LV1CT0RY]

Which is funny, because this franchise is best known for having THE HOGS, go fkkin figure!!!

The good ol russ grimm and joe jacoby days.

[SolidSnake84]

I've wondered alot about why the Redskins FO seem to feel like they dont need to improve or upgrade the line...year after year. Our line always sucks, and i'm tired of it. There is no way those 5 guys that start the season will stay healthy anymore than 4 or 5 games....guys will start being beat up around the 4th game...and we have no depth at the positions..

Next year should be all about building the offensive line

[Bang]

Nah, the Hogs under Bugs always seemed to have a couple of versatile backups.

That was because you could keep them in those days.
Now if you have a backup who can play all five positions like we had several of back then, they're gone. Raleigh McKenzie doesn't sit on our bench and be the great role player he was for years these days. These days the Mark Addickes and Roy Simmons and RC Thielemann's of the league end up starting elsewhere if they can't start here. If you have a backup that shows any promise at all when he gets a chance, they're gone unless you pay them like a starter (Which usually means your starter or someone else has to go.)
Depth is a problem league wide. It's a natural result of the salary cap and free agency. For all of the nervous nellies out there, please, can you tell us who is the best backup tackle in the NFL? How about the best 2nd string guard? Who's the best center riding the bench these days?
You can't, I'd wager, and the reason why you can't is because if they're that good they don't stay second string for long. If a young OL comes in for an injured vet and does extremely well, he won't be a backup long, and if he is, he won't be with that team long. Everyone studies every other team's roster as if it were a farm club. Their second string stud could be your starter next season, and this is especially true for linemen.

I'd further wager that if you took the best OL in the NFL and injured both of their tackles, they're going to struggle. While it would be optimum to have 2 or 3 guys on the bench that can start on most every other team in the league like we had in the 80s, it's simply not possible anymore.

~Bang

[KDawg]

I guess I'm one of the few here who believes that if Mike Williams can drop a few more pounds, I think our offensive line is going to be pretty decent. Williams isn't going to be the best RT in the NFL, NFC, or even the NFC East, but he'll be a solid RT for us. Heyer should still get some PT and he should be much improved this year as well.

I actually really like the idea of Jansen at center and letting Rabach take a seat. Jansen can maul and from the center spot he won't have to worry about speed rushers... Although I don't think this one is going to happen.

I think we're going to be okay on the OL this year, but we need to address it next offseason with some additions if we're going to remain that way or even make the OL great, because it won't be there this season... At all. But serviceable isn't bad for the moment.

[SonnyJ]

Depth is a problem league wide.

It never ceases to stun me how there is a prevalent notion amongst this fan base that OL depth is only a problem with the Redskins. :doh:

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

What's crazy is it's clear they knew the offensive line was a problem and they still did nothing even remotely significant to address it. You can't rely on other teams' castoffs to fix your problems -- especially when the coaching staff admits they have little faith in guys like Rhinehart. That's not a plan.

Where are you drawing your conclusion from with this insinuation? From Stuart Little that thinks he can write!?!

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Scary? Nope, that's reality people.

The coaches can say over and over again that ignoring the Offensive Line in the draft again this year was the right thing to do, that they didn't see any prospects worth drafting, that they haven't found that veteran guy to sign in FA, and that the position is ok but when you see a lineup such as:

Clark, Dockery, Rabach, Rinehart, Heyer.

You have no choice but to realize that we are totally screwed here. And the ones to blame for this isn't the players for a change, its the philosophy of the people making these choices. All of the blame for the offensive line troubles awaiting us this season should fall completely on Vinny Cerrato and Joe Bugels shoulders. Expecting our older players to last a full season at this point in thier careers is stupid. Spending all of that money in FA and only bringing in Dockery a player who was cut because his last team didn't think was worth his contract and expecting all of these issues to disapear is even dumber. And ignoring these players in the draft completely was the worst mistake of them all. The men who make those decisions should pay next offseason, Vinny and Joe. I'm ready to see them both be fired.

Sure we needed LBers but this offseason we have completely ignored our greatest need all because the coaches think they are going to find some "diamond in the rough" which I believe is wrong to think. It won't matter how great our pass rush is, or our corners play if the offense can't keep Jason standing up. With offensive line problems our offense will shut down. I was begging and begging all offseason for offensive help and we got none of it minus Dockery which is good but not enough. If the coaches who's job it is to get the team ready to play can't see how great of a need offensive linemen really is to the success of this team then fire them. Joe Bugel's not a savior and he can't turn garbage into a full course meal. If he had stressed to the front office how important upgrading all of these positions was and he was ignored then he gets a pass. However I never read anything about that in the offseason. I have no choice but to think one of the primary reasons we haven't seen more improvement on the line is because Bugel thinks too much of his ability and honestly doesn't see much of a problem there. Since he thinks he can "coach up" players and make them stars which hasn't happened for us in years and years he likely told Vinny the position was ok and that's why it was ignored. Blame the Offensive line coach for that. And blame Vinny for being so stupid he listened to that and ignored the position based off his coaches recommendation.

Our philosophy this offseason hasn't made much sense to me. We had the #4 ranked Defense in the entire league and all but one of our draft picks and one FA were players signed to the Defense. I think the record started skipping in Vinny's head this year and he listened too much to "Fix the Defense"...I don't agree with this and never have. We should have addressed the offense. We didn't and we will be paying for it this year.

The idea that there wasn't any offensive linemen players worth taking in the draft is flat out wrong. For one, if that were true why in the hell did we sign after the draft a bunch of guys that play this position? These guys weren't worth a draft pick but they are worth being on the playing field? WTH? Secondly, why didn't other teams agree with that and instead went out and drafted offensive linemen after our picks? Last time I checked our draft record pretty much sucked (10 picks last year, one player showed up) so how can any reasonable fan believe they were right about that? The point to me was that even after our second half collapse last season management and coaches still doesn't understand how important this position really is and thinks they can toss anyone in there and play them. The best offensive lines play the same players game after game and the players know who's covering who and trust one another. How can you build that throwing different players at that spot game after game?

We are going to have no better then an 8-8 record this year because of the offensive line problems. Because of the offensive line issues we are likely to not see Jason Campbell at his best and because he's going to be under so much pressure he's likely gone next year. And lastly we will be looking next offseason at massive offensive needs to address at the QB and line issues. The only good thing I see about this is at least next year I can hope we follow this years plan and draft all offensive players and positions and not defense. I can hope right?

And what if we do not have an 8-8 record this year? How dumb will you look amongst others because you will be called out for certain?!?

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Did you even read the article? What on earth does your quote have to do with what is being discussed in here?:doh:

I personally don't see where JLC is hating on the Redskins in this article. Basically everything that he said about our o-line is a fact. A lot of us are starting to use JLC as a punching bag to release 17 years of frustration.

Also, what exactly are you basing your opinion about thinking Clark and Rinehart are good back ups and could develop into starters? How would you know that?

WTH were you just reading? What is wrong with actually wanting to develop our own talent and how do you know if they will not become serviceable starters?

Your BS reaches to a whole new level.

[addicted]

And what if we do not have an 8-8 record this year? How dumb will you look amongst others because you will be called out for certain?!?

Then call me out. Regardless of what some people here are hoping for, it's highly unlikely that Mike Williams a guy who's been out of football for YEARS is going to be the answer for us on the offensive line. It's my belief the teams front office is not good enough to say things like "There was no one there to draft to help this glaring need of ours so we took another TE". The track record doesn't support this at all. I'm ok with how we drafted in rounds 1 and 3 but after that the draft went to crap because we simply were too stupid and too stubborn and ignored once again our biggest need. The entire world knew we needed offensive linemen but Vinny and Joe are just too prideful to see that.

Look at it this way. I'm not on the Jason Campbell bandwagon and have been considered a hater by some on this forum in the past for my lack of faith in Campbell. I'm also known to speak my mind about things and say how I feel like I did in the post you replied to. So here's another one for your chalk board since you want to "call me out"....Jason Campbells going to get a pass from me this season because of our god awful line play.

In the beginning of the year everythings going to click once again for us and we will likely get off to a good start then this problems going to come up again and we will limp on into the home stretch with no playoffs in our future and no answer for who the QB will be in 2010.

If the team continues to ignore the second most important area of the team and goes into preseason thinking a first round bust and some guys we brought in off the street are going to fix the problems we've got on the offensive line then we deserve whats going to happen to us this year. We should have addressed this problem area with more then bringing in Dockery but we ignored it again and that's going to doom our year yet again. We are repeating the same mistakes again and expecting different results. Insanity.

[onnie007]

That article sounded like the Swine Flu talk. Much ado about nothing. We will get it solved. Dockery is an upgrade on Kendall and Thomas will be ready when he comes back. RT is really the area of concern and we will have a lot of big guys competing there.


BTW, I am really pulling for Mike Williams. The talent always stays with you. He just need to get his body in condition so that he can compete.

[TheLongshot]

Then call me out. Regardless of what some people here are hoping for, it's highly unlikely that Mike Williams a guy who's been out of football for YEARS is going to be the answer for us on the offensive line. It's my belief the teams front office is not good enough to say things like "There was no one there to draft to help this glaring need of ours so we took another TE". The track record doesn't support this at all. I'm ok with how we drafted in rounds 1 and 3 but after that the draft went to crap because we simply were too stupid and too stubborn and ignored once again our biggest need. The entire world knew we needed offensive linemen but Vinny and Joe are just too prideful to see that.

First off, Williams is hardly the only option that they are depending on for this year at RT, considering that they also have Jansen, Heyer and now Bridges competing for the position.

Second, no matter who they drafted in the 7th round, the player isn't likely to help much. In fact, anyone outside of the first couple of rounds is unlikely to help much immediately, particularly in what was called a pretty shallow OL class.

Third, the team seems pretty high on the players that they got, a lot of which are going through their first camp with us. Certainly JLC can project a lot of FUD based on this, but to be honest he doesn't know more than the coaching staff.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

First off, Williams is hardly the only option that they are depending on for this year at RT, considering that they also have Jansen, Heyer and now Bridges competing for the position.

Second, no matter who they drafted in the 7th round, the player isn't likely to help much. In fact, anyone outside of the first couple of rounds is unlikely to help much immediately, particularly in what was called a pretty shallow OL class.

Third, the team seems pretty high on the players that they got, a lot of which are going through their first camp with us. Certainly JLC can project a lot of FUD based on this, but to be honest he doesn't know more than the coaching staff.


:applause: I kept wondering what WTH he was talking about with them depending on Mike Williams to be the automatic proponent at RT.

As always, his BS reaches to a whole new level with each passing day.

[Skinsinparadise]

It never ceases to stun me how there is a prevalent notion amongst this fan base that OL depth is only a problem with the Redskins. :doh:

No question other teams have depth issues. Unfortunately though we aren't competing for the most part against teams like that. Our division rivals arguably already have stronger and deeper O lines but they keep collecting O lineman including this draft and for that matter D lineman too.

The Giants have McKenzie at RT who few would argue against the idea that he isn't better than Jansen. Guess what, they draft William Beatty in the 2nd round to strengthen that position. Cowboys draft an OT in the third round. Eagles took a guard in the later rounds, and beefed up their O line via trades and FA.

I give the FO the benefit of the doubt more than most on this board. But am going to wonder about picking Glenn in the 5th round if he doesn't work out, a recently converted undersized linebacker with limited expereince, seems to have character issues, and who by his own admission didn't expect to be drafted period.

Versus O lineman that they could have picked like:
James Meredith
Duke Robinson
Fenuki Tupou
Herman Johnson
Andrew Gardner

There are a lot of people who would say, well clearly the Redskins scouts saw something in Glenn and didn't care much for the O lineman. Fair enough, but it struck me interesting that all the players I just mentioned where taken soon after Glenn, so clearly other teams scouts saw something in these O lineman. Am hoping the Skins made the right choice and it should be interesting to watch how Glenn's career fares against the O lineman that came off the board in those picks.

[cphil006]

key line in that aticle "the staff DOES NOT view jansen as a starter anymore" YAY!!!:D

...according to sources

[James Moss]

Keep in mind the Ravens were fielding a QB carousel of an old and injured Steve McNair, bust Kyle Boller, and rookie Troy Smith and had a similar record as the Redskins... Until Todd Collins came in.

The Ravens' problems had much more to do with the QB situation than the O-Line situation.

So with a QB carousel you don't believe that Billick would have fallen back on a strong running attack if he could have? The Redskins backups outperformed the Ravens backups that year and IMO had nothing to do with the QB play.

Let's not let this turn into this teams vs. that team. That was my fault. The point is that JLC does not like Vinny Cerratto and he allows that hatred to spoil his judgment when it comes to Redskins player acquisitions. He has been wrong and never admits when he is; Rocky McIntosh, and the o-line of 2007 which performed admirably.

[SonnyJ]

Our division rivals arguably already have stronger and deeper O lines but they keep collecting O lineman including this draft...

I disagree with this. The Eagles draft OL till the cows come home, but they still needed to pluck from other teams, at a substantial cost, when their OTs (both older than any OTs on the Redskins) needed to be replaced.

Giant fans were saying they had to go OT because MacKenzie is losing it, the Giants have poor depth on the OL, and if a starter went down they'd be in trouble.

Cowboys? Same boat. Their guard situation was a problem all year and they just have some bodies at OT. Not to mention the fact that they have only two starters on their OL that they actually drafted, and the youngest of those two was drafted in, what, 2002? The other has been in the league longer than any of our OTs. It doesn't appear that they've done well with stocking their OL shelf with draft talent.

Just because you draft them, doesn't mean they're any good. If the other teams have to dip significantly into their backup pool, they will struggle. Just like the Redskins. As far as I'm concerned, all of the teams have several questionable young guys competing for backup spots on the team. To be honest, Heyer has shown more than ANY other young OT in the division.

[Skinsinparadise]

I disagree with this. The Eagles draft OL till the cows come home, but they still needed to pluck from other teams, at a substantial cost, when their OTs (both older than any OTs on the Redskins) needed to be replaced.

Giant fans were saying they had to go OT because MacKenzie is losing it, the Giants have poor depth on the OL, and if a starter went down they'd be in trouble.

Cowboys? Same boat.

I got to run out for a bit so don't have time at the moment to do apples to apples player by player comparisons but for the moment are you arguing that the Skins O line is better than its division rivals or that their depth is better or about the same as them -- or both arguments?

[TheLongshot]

There are a lot of people who would say, well clearly the Redskins scouts saw something in Glenn and didn't care much for the O lineman. Fair enough, but it struck me interesting that all the players I just mentioned where taken soon after Glenn, so clearly other teams scouts saw something in these O lineman. Am hoping the Skins made the right choice and it should be interesting to watch how Glenn's career fares against the O lineman that came off the board in those picks.

Well, it isn't just the scouts but the coaching staff that saw a lot in Glenn, apparently. The fact that he's a pretty good special teams player probably helped as well.

Teams see different things in different players. Just because someone has a player rated at a certian slot doesn't mean we think the same way. Also, considering that none of the guys listed were probably going to help the OL this year, there was no need to reach for one if you think there are better values elsewhere.

[MattFancy]

Just because you draft them, doesn't mean they're any good.

Exactly! We could've only drafted OL in the draft this year, but that doesn't mean we would've automatically fixed the OL situation. Just because there were OL available later in the draft doesn't mean they are anything special. Obviously if they were still around in the fifth round then other teams were thinking the same way we were.

I don't think the OL situation is as bad as some people are making it out to be. Last year we had Samuels injured, Thomas was one play away from a career ending injury, and Kendall didn't practice most of the time because of his horrible knees. Now going into this year, Samuels and Thomas will be healthy, Dockery replaced Kendall, and hopefully Jansen or Heyer can step up and play well at RT. As bad as everyone says the line was last year, we still had one of the best run games in the league. Everything will be ok

[SonnyJ]

I got to run out for a bit so don't have time at the moment to do apples to apples player by player comparisons but for the moment are you arguing that the Skins O line is better than its division rivals or that their depth is better or about the same as them -- or both arguments?

The same. None of the other teams have a preponderance of known starting quality depth, no matter what they've done in terms of the draft. None of the teams have a steady pipeline of up and coming players as reserves on their OL. The other teams are hoping that they don't suffer a rash of injuries and need to test their depth.

Just like the Redskins.

[Skinz4Life12]

Vinny's motto:

Don't draft a position until it's clear that you absolutely have to.


There is no forward thinking at the Park.

problem is, just about everyone realized that we absolutley had to draft o-linemen

everyone except vinny..

[darrelgreenie]

I guess I'm one of the few here who believes that if Mike Williams can drop a few more pounds, I think our offensive line is going to be pretty decent. Williams isn't going to be the best RT in the NFL, NFC, or even the NFC East, but he'll be a solid RT for us. Heyer should still get some PT and he should be much improved this year as well.

I actually really like the idea of Jansen at center and letting Rabach take a seat. Jansen can maul and from the center spot he won't have to worry about speed rushers... Although I don't think this one is going to happen.

I think we're going to be okay on the OL this year, but we need to address it next offseason with some additions if we're going to remain that way or even make the OL great, because it won't be there this season... At all. But serviceable isn't bad for the moment.

I want to believe Williams can shed those pounds, hopefully being around Buges and his boys will get him going. Right now though i expect Devin Clark to be the next OT after Samuels/Heyer/Jansen. But, if he does get back into shape would feel alot better about the depth at OT.
Imo, Samuels is now an injury concern and Heyer should be ready to jump in at the LT if Samuels gets banged up. If 'Big' Mike could step in at the RT spot that would be huge.

I read somewhere that Jansen was getting alot of reps at G/C. Considering that Jansen struggles a bit with pass-pro at the RT spot this could be a good move for him and the team if he could take over at either spot.

Also, i like the signing of Jeremy Bridges he adds depth at G and provides much needed starting experience behind Thomas if Rhinehart and Jansen don't work out.

I really like Edwin Williams kid. (full disclosure i'm a Maryland Alum and Homer) But, considering the Buges-Maryland pipeline i think he could make the team, i want to say challenge for the starting spot. But i don't want to get ahead of myself;)



So? One practice in the books. How'd it go?

Williams: "It wasn't too bad. I got more reps than I expected -- that's obviously a positive thing. Still getting the technique down. Nowhere near where I need to be or where I want to be, but as far as a first day I think it was very productive."
http://blog.redskins.com/


There are far too many IFs on the O-Line for my liking.
But, if the best case scenarios happen it could be a serviceable to good line this year.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

There are far too many IFs on the O-Line for my liking.
But, if the best case scenarios happen it could be a serviceable to good line this year.

Perfect way of putting it. The actual opening game lineup is very up in the air as far as I can tell (with Bridges, Williams, etc. adding a new unknown factor we haven't had in some time). I believe that to be a good thing.

If everything breaks right, we will have a good, deep, not overly old OL.

[addicted]

:doh:


First off, Williams is hardly the only option that they are depending on for this year at RT, considering that they also have Jansen, Heyer and now Bridges competing for the position.

I know its a Longshot that you might have heard this before but have you ever heard the saying, when no one stands out they are all bad? That applies here. The fact that Williams a guy not in football for 4 years, a guy named Bridges who we just signed off the street last week are "competeting" with Heyer a guy who was undrafted and been here for a couple of years never good enough to take the spot from Jansen, a guy none of us wants to see start should set off warning bells for you. Instead of hearing that, your think this is good news for the team, what planet are you from?

Let me repeat that...

Williams - Out of Football for 3 or 4 years
Bridges - A guy signed off the street last week
Heyer - Been around for a few years, not good enough to lock this spot down
Jansen - A washed up shell of himself only on the team because the front office had him sign a stupid contract

We are looking that square in the face right now and we were so confident in this bunch of guys that we decided to take another TE in the draft and not draft an offensive lineman. I swear if I have to beat this drum all offseason when someone calls me out like WhoRUSupposed2Be just did and you defending this crap. We should have done more, A WHOLE LOT more to address the offensive line problems this year. We didn't and we will suffer for it. If you want to be delussional about it then all I can say is I hope your right and I'm wrong. After the collapse last year of the offensive line you'd think we would have addressed this more but we didn't. We will pay for that.




Second, no matter who they drafted in the 7th round, the player isn't likely to help much. In fact, anyone outside of the first couple of rounds is unlikely to help much immediately, particularly in what was called a pretty shallow OL class.

And you know this because Longshots the great future telling man who knows all right? Get a clue buddy, you don't know that. And frankly I think its amazing that with a track record of 1 out of 10 last year the front office would be so stupid to think anyone believes they have the track record to say something like that. The fact is we took a damn TE over addressing the offensive line AGAIN. The same story year after year. They will never get it. I'd like to fire Vinny and Bugel next offseason if we have offensive line issues again for being so stupid to ignore this huge area of need again.




Third, the team seems pretty high on the players that they got, a lot of which are going through their first camp with us. Certainly JLC can project a lot of FUD based on this, but to be honest he doesn't know more than the coaching staff.

As if you do know more then they do right, :hysterical:

Of course they are going to say all of those things. Who's assess are on the line when stupid choices are made like this? Who has to answer for drafting a stinking TE when you have no real answer for the biggest problem on the team last year and let it go? Seriously you can count on one hand how many RT's we have right now, ZERO. We'd better be praying to the God of good luck that someone can play this spot this year. It's disgusting to me how they consider the offensive line to be so unimportant.

[addicted]

I give the FO the benefit of the doubt more than most on this board. But am going to wonder about picking Glenn in the 5th round if he doesn't work out, a recently converted undersized linebacker with limited expereince, seems to have character issues, and who by his own admission didn't expect to be drafted period.

I'm so hell bent and pissed off we drafted another TE that I forgot we drafted Mr. Truth. I'm right there with you on this pick, a complete head scratcher to me.



Fair enough, but it struck me interesting that all the players I just mentioned where taken soon after Glenn, so clearly other teams scouts saw something in these O lineman.

That's my point. Our track record in drafting outside of the first round is incredibly spotty at best. And yet some people tend to think we have shown enough to not have fans like me and you wondering what the hell were they doing and thinking in the later rounds. We had to take some of those project kids to address the need. If you look at my posts during the day of the draft I was constantly asking where are the linemen. I did that before and after the draft. The idea we are good enough to take a 400+ man who hasn't played in years and make him a starter today should I think show you how poor the players we are counting on actually are performing, instead the front office cheerleaders and apologists want to think every things fine down there. It's not fine. A guy off the trash heap who's career was completely washed up should not be able to come into this team at ANY position and out perform our starters. If they are able to take 4 years off without obviously working out and come in and out perform our guys that's a terrible sign. And after the way we collapsed last season you would think the coaches understood that but they don't. The whole draft after the 3rd round sucks in my mind and it didn't have too.

[addicted]

Exactly! We could've only drafted OL in the draft this year, but that doesn't mean we would've automatically fixed the OL situation. Just because there were OL available later in the draft doesn't mean they are anything special. Obviously if they were still around in the fifth round then other teams were thinking the same way we were.

I don't think the OL situation is as bad as some people are making it out to be. Last year we had Samuels injured, Thomas was one play away from a career ending injury, and Kendall didn't practice most of the time because of his horrible knees. Now going into this year, Samuels and Thomas will be healthy, Dockery replaced Kendall, and hopefully Jansen or Heyer can step up and play well at RT. As bad as everyone says the line was last year, we still had one of the best run games in the league. Everything will be ok

That run game came to a screaching halt in the second half of the year when (who would have guessed?) the offensive line problems happened. Now everyone's a year older and you think that the same injuries aren't going to happen again? We didn't have bad luck last year on the offensive line, we are old as hell and bodies break down with age. Everythings not ok back there and it shows in the comments the teams making about certain players. Too many of you are forgetting what actually broke last year and caused the stumble down the stretch.

[addicted]

problem is, just about everyone realized that we absolutley had to draft o-linemen

everyone except vinny..

If we are placing blame on this I demand we go half-half with Vinny and Joe Bugel. Who is better to know the issues of the offensive line then the offensive line coach? If Vinny asked Joe if we needed any help back there and he says "no" then guess what? He's actually more to blame for this mess then Vinny. If Joe was on the other hand beating on a drum saying "draft anyone, we need players" and Vinny said no one's good enough to bring in then it would fall on Vinny. I think this is the fault of Joe Bugels more then Vinny. I could be wrong but if we have another horrible year from the offensive line like last season I want to see someone's head on the wall for ignoring this problem this year. We could have addressed it, we choose not to. Someone's got to pay be it Joe Bugel, Vinny Ceratto, or both of them. Bring in Donald Trump and make someone pay for this stupidity. Taking two average Lbers and another freaking TE instead of linemen prospects? Inexcusable....

[MattFancy]

That run game came to a screaching halt in the second half of the year when (who would have guessed?) the offensive line problems happened. Now everyone's a year older and you think that the same injuries aren't going to happen again? We didn't have bad luck last year on the offensive line, we are old as hell and bodies break down with age. Everythings not ok back there and it shows in the comments the teams making about certain players. Too many of you are forgetting what actually broke last year and caused the stumble down the stretch.

Some of the injuries were due to old age and some were just freak injuries. What are the chances Thomas plays half a season with a career threatening injury? Samuels had played all 16 games for 4 straight years before missing time last year. We fixed the Kendall problem with Dockery. We've brough it some young guys to compete for depth. The OL is not as bad as every is making it out to be. Its not perfect, but its far from being horrible.

[Shilsu]

So with a QB carousel you don't believe that Billick would have fallen back on a strong running attack if he could have? The Redskins backups outperformed the Ravens backups that year and IMO had nothing to do with the QB play.

Let me take you down memory lane. Redskins were 5-7 and Ravens were 4-8 after Week 13 last year. The only Redskins backup that outperformed his Ravens' counterpart(s) is Todd Collins. That doesn't look like "nothing to do with the QB play" to me.


Let's not let this turn into this teams vs. that team. That was my fault. The point is that JLC does not like Vinny Cerratto and he allows that hatred to spoil his judgment when it comes to Redskins player acquisitions. He has been wrong and never admits when he is; Rocky McIntosh, and the o-line of 2007 which performed admirably.

The 2007 offensive line performed horribly unless you think it's Clinton Portis' fault that he rushed for less than 4 yards per carry.

[James Moss]

Let me take you down memory lane. Redskins were 5-7 and Ravens were 4-8 after Week 13 last year. The only Redskins backup that outperformed his Ravens' counterpart(s) is Todd Collins. That doesn't look like "nothing to do with the QB play" to me.



The 2007 offensive line performed horribly unless you think it's Clinton Portis' fault that he rushed for less than 4 yards per carry.

Lets take you down statistics and reality "lane".

Rushing Attempts: 498 Rushing Yards: 1871
Your Team: 446/1797

[Skinsinparadise]

Well, it isn't just the scouts but the coaching staff that saw a lot in Glenn, apparently. The fact that he's a pretty good special teams player probably helped as well.

Teams see different things in different players. Just because someone has a player rated at a certian slot doesn't mean we think the same way. Also, considering that none of the guys listed were probably going to help the OL this year, there was no need to reach for one if you think there are better values elsewhere.

Sure, am just saying they want against the draft geeks big time on that pick, passing over some 2nd and 3rd round grade lineman according to the geeks for a linebacker not on the draft geek radar screen and who doesn't seem to have the protoype LB size or experience, and apparently has some character issues to boot -- and the player himself said to the press that he was suprised he was drafted period nevermind in the 5th round.

Last season when the FO was attacked by members on the board for not drafting a lineman in the 2nd round I defended them, because really who was available and maybe Fred Davis didn't fit an obvious need but he didn't seem to be a reach for the 2nd round.

On paper at least it looks as if Glenn could have been had in the 7th or as an undrafted FA, and on paper a guy that they passed over like James Meredith is a potential solid OT. Having said all of this yeah its possible that the FO did a good job with the pick and all the O lineman that they passed over turn out to be busts. Just saying if it doesn't work out that way, it looks like they made a curious move.

And I defend this FO more than most on the board, so am not just looking for an excuse to pounce on them.

Edit: Reading some of the posts, seems to be a refrain that picking an O lineman in the 5th through 7th rounds are long shot projects anyway.

I understand the point but I don't agree with it. It really depends on the player. If you follow Kiper and all the draft geeks, there were some surprising O line players available in the later rounds this year who were projected to go higher.

Plus Stephan Heyer was an undrafted FA. The new O lineman some of us are now excited about that might be the RT, Bridges, was a 6th round draft pick years back by the Eagles. How can we be snobby about a 5th rounder being a likely project/bust in that context?

[addicted]

Some of the injuries were due to old age and some were just freak injuries. What are the chances Thomas plays half a season with a career threatening injury? Samuels had played all 16 games for 4 straight years before missing time last year. We fixed the Kendall problem with Dockery. We've brough it some young guys to compete for depth. The OL is not as bad as every is making it out to be. Its not perfect, but its far from being horrible.

It's not? Seriously tell us who is playing RT? You yourself just said that the injuries last year were partly to blame by old age. Do you somehow not think that will get worse for these players as time goes by? Did they all get a year older or a year younger between now and last year? The team knows its in a very bad bad way with RT and they were too stupid to deal with that this year which will doom us to another 8-8 year I'm guessing. Why does this team think that they can take players off the non drafted list or the been outta football for 4 years list and make that work? Why aren't the fans seeing the same thing I am? This situation is flat out scarey to me

[TheLongshot]

Williams - Out of Football for 3 or 4 years
Bridges - A guy signed off the street last week
Heyer - Been around for a few years, not good enough to lock this spot down
Jansen - A washed up shell of himself only on the team because the front office had him sign a stupid contract

Bridges has 29 career starts. Heyer is in his third year and probably hasn't hit his ceiling yet. While Jansen isn't the player he used to be, I wouldn't call him washed up. I agree with you that Williams is a longshot of sorts, but he does seem to be highly motivated and did have the skills to be worthy of a top 10 pick at one point.


We are looking that square in the face right now and we were so confident in this bunch of guys that we decided to take another TE in the draft and not draft an offensive lineman. I swear if I have to beat this drum all offseason when someone calls me out like WhoRUSupposed2Be just did and you defending this crap. We should have done more, A WHOLE LOT more to address the offensive line problems this year. We didn't and we will suffer for it. If you want to be delussional about it then all I can say is I hope your right and I'm wrong. After the collapse last year of the offensive line you'd think we would have addressed this more but we didn't. We will pay for that.

I'm not sure what you were expecting. Three guys from last year were going to be starting no matter what: Samuels, Rabach and Thomas. We replaced Kendall with Dockery. Now we've added a couple more guys in the mix for the open RT position. Short of drafting a guy in the first round, I'm not sure how much more the team could do to improve their position for next year.


And you know this because Longshots the great future telling man who knows all right? Get a clue buddy, you don't know that. And frankly I think its amazing that with a track record of 1 out of 10 last year the front office would be so stupid to think anyone believes they have the track record to say something like that. The fact is we took a damn TE over addressing the offensive line AGAIN. The same story year after year. They will never get it. I'd like to fire Vinny and Bugel next offseason if we have offensive line issues again for being so stupid to ignore this huge area of need again.

Go back and take a look at the history of 7th round picks. You are lucky if you find anyone solid, much less starting quality. Most are lucky to make an NFL roster.


As if you do know more then they do right, :hysterical:

They probably know more than both of us combined. I mean, it is their job after all, while we are just armchair GMs who depend on "draft experts" for where players should go.


Of course they are going to say all of those things. Who's assess are on the line when stupid choices are made like this? Who has to answer for drafting a stinking TE when you have no real answer for the biggest problem on the team last year and let it go? Seriously you can count on one hand how many RT's we have right now, ZERO. We'd better be praying to the God of good luck that someone can play this spot this year. It's disgusting to me how they consider the offensive line to be so unimportant.

BTW, the guy is going to be a FB, not a TE, and considering that Sellers is going to be 34 this season, having a young, athletic guy developing behind him is probably a good idea. The draft isn't just about the next year, but the years after that. You don't seem to understand that.

[Vicious]

Our line has not been healthy for the last couple of years at the end of the season. This is because they are old. Due to the parity in the league a lot of winning in the post season has to do with injuries. We are injured. We either miss the post season or lose in the first games because we can't block a pass rush.

[TheLongshot]

On paper at least it looks as if Glenn could have been had in the 7th or as an undrafted FA, and on paper a guy that they passed over like James Meredith is a potential solid OT. Having said all of this yeah its possible that the FO did a good job with the pick and all the O lineman that they passed over turn out to be busts. Just saying if it doesn't work out that way, it looks like they made a curious move.

The problem is that we depend on "draft experts" to form our opinion on players. Those opinions don't necessarily match up with what teams think. There were those who felt that Meredith was a sleeper, but there were also a lot of teams that decided to pass on him multiple times, so teams overall didn't think THAT highly of him.

[addicted]

Bridges has 29 career starts. Heyer is in his third year and probably hasn't hit his ceiling yet. While Jansen isn't the player he used to be, I wouldn't call him washed up. I agree with you that Williams is a longshot of sorts, but he does seem to be highly motivated and did have the skills to be worthy of a top 10 pick at one point.

Bridges - He had 29 career starts so why is he here if he's any good? Heyer wasn't good enough last season to beat out Jansen for the starting job. Will he be this year? Just because he's another year in the system doesn't mean much to me. Another year helps but doesn't make someone a better player. Jansen's washed up and only here because of the cost to cut him. Williams is a longshot of sorts? Who's kidding who? This guy was a top 10 pick who sucked so bad he was let go 4 years ago by the team that drafted him. That's not the resume of anyone that's usually good. In his younger days he wasn't good enough, now after he's been gone for 4 years he's suddenly NOT a longshot to make the team? Are you serious? As the article I read today said about Williams, this move to look at him is SCREAMING desperation.


I'm not sure what you were expecting. Three guys from last year were going to be starting no matter what: Samuels, Rabach and Thomas. We replaced Kendall with Dockery. Now we've added a couple more guys in the mix for the open RT position. Short of drafting a guy in the first round, I'm not sure how much more the team could do to improve their position for next year.

You don't know what I was expecting? After all of my posts that are crystal clear on this subject you still don't know what I was expecting? I'm not at all sure your going to get this but I will try.

I was expecting us to draft a few young players that the team could begin to groom just like we did with Heyer. I didn't expect a starter from the 5th round but I did expect we would address the offensive line this season after the way we ended the year last season. The guys we have starting outside of Samuals all have serious issues. Rabach's not a good player. Thomas has serious issues with his health. Kendall didn't play bad for us but he was old. I'm not positive that Dockery is a huge upgrade over Kendall outside of the years he presumably has left in the tank. Honestly I have not watched any Buffalo games to see how Docks been playing but considering they were fine with cutting him says something of the player they think he is to me. And I've already spoke about my thoughts on RT (Who wants to play here? Apply within). This is the second most important position on the offense behind only QB and last year when we were 30th in the league in scoring the second half of the year it showed why we needed to improve the line play.

If you are one of the few to think that Offensive line is not an issue on this team think about the second half collapse last year...2-6 record, ranked 30 out of 32 teams in offensive scoring.

Offensive line issues don't simply vanish over night. We play in one of the toughest devisions for an offensive lineman asking them to go against some of the best Defensive Lines in the entire league 6 times a year. Adding Dockery wasn't enough for us to fix this. Now next year because we never looked at this position we are looking at adding not only a new QB, but 3 to 4 linemen as well. Ignoring this position this draft was a horrible move to make. We should have drafted some prospects to groom and gotten a jump on this. Instead we drafted another TE, and 2 LBers that none of the draft geeks thought would be drafted. That's a stupid stupid move.



Go back and take a look at the history of 7th round picks. You are lucky if you find anyone solid, much less starting quality. Most are lucky to make an NFL roster.

7th round pick? What the hell happened to our 5th or 6th round picks? Our 7th round WR selection actually made some sense to me. But with that attitude it's no wonder the team decided to crap all over itself in the draft. Why even bother with it?



They probably know more than both of us combined. I mean, it is their job after all, while we are just armchair GMs who depend on "draft experts" for where players should go.

Funny you say that and then defend them. Who was impressed with the drafting this teams done outside of the first and second round picks since Vinny took over? We drafted 10 players last year and our 7th rounder was the only one to be a starter. We just drafted 6 players a year later and it looks like from those we got maybe 2 starters. 3 for 16 and you want to defend decisions like they made to ignore the biggest need in the draft for players no one thought were going to be drafted. I'm not saying I know more then they do but I will say that I think that the idea that we can get by with some undrafted players on the offensive line is stupid. I would have drafted better then we did.



BTW, the guy is going to be a FB, not a TE, and considering that Sellers is going to be 34 this season, having a young, athletic guy developing behind him is probably a good idea. The draft isn't just about the next year, but the years after that. You don't seem to understand that.

Oh I don't? Guess what Longshot? I completely get that. It's you that doesn't get this. I'm not the one saying some stupid thing like "developing a FB when we have a PROBOWL FB is more important then developing an offensive linemen when we have a very old offensive line and need a ton of help there". Stop apologizing for this stupidity and get honest about this. Turning a TE into a FB doesn't rank on the team needs nearly as high as developing young players on the offensive line. In fact the entire idea that this teams going to be able to turn a TE into a FB at the professional level is stupid. We have a PROBOWL FB now, we don't have a single person not even you saying predraft that we needed another FB as badly as we needed Offensive Linemen. If you weren't apologizing and making excuses for the teams stupid moves you might admit that. But you can keep on insulting people who don't seem to agree with you that we have a good offensive line like you like to do

[addicted]

Our line has not been healthy for the last couple of years at the end of the season. This is because they are old. Due to the parity in the league a lot of winning in the post season has to do with injuries. We are injured. We either miss the post season or lose in the first games because we can't block a pass rush.

That's exactly correct. Last year we started off like gangbusters out of the gate and then came crashing down like a ton of bricks when old age and injuries happened. We didn't address this again this year when these guys are a year older and think simply adding Dockery is enough which it isn't. I'm predicting another 8-8 or 6-10 year because of the offensive line. I hope I'm wrong

[TheLongshot]

Bridges - He had 29 career starts so why is he here if he's any good? Heyer wasn't good enough last season to beat out Jansen for the starting job. Will he be this year? Just because he's another year in the system doesn't mean much to me. Another year helps but doesn't make someone a better player. Jansen's washed up and only here because of the cost to cut him. Williams is a longshot of sorts? Who's kidding who? This guy was a top 10 pick who sucked so bad he was let go 4 years ago by the team that drafted him. That's not the resume of anyone that's usually good. In his younger days he wasn't good enough, now after he's been gone for 4 years he's suddenly NOT a longshot to make the team? Are you serious? As the article I read today said about Williams, this move to look at him is SCREAMING desperation.

Bridges ran afowl of the law and was let go by Carolina. As for Heyer, I don't know what rock you were under, but Heyer DID beat out Jansen and only lost the job because he got hurt. When he came back, Samuels was out for the year and he started over there.

Desperation? Not at all. Teams always fill in the blanks after the draft with what they didn't find there.


I was expecting us to draft a few young players that the team could begin to groom just like we did with Heyer. I didn't expect a starter from the 5th round but I did expect we would address the offensive line this season after the way we ended the year last season. The guys we have starting outside of Samuals all have serious issues. Rabach's not a good player. Thomas has serious issues with his health. Kendall didn't play bad for us but he was old. I'm not positive that Dockery is a huge upgrade over Kendall outside of the years he presumably has left in the tank. Honestly I have not watched any Buffalo games to see how Docks been playing but considering they were fine with cutting him says something of the player they think he is to me. And I've already spoke about my thoughts on RT (Who wants to play here? Apply within). This is the second most important position on the offense behind only QB and last year when we were 30th in the league in scoring the second half of the year it showed why we needed to improve the line play.

We actually have a decent selection of young OL on the roster, most of which were picked up last year. Obviously we drafted Rinehart last year. D'Anthony Batiste and Will Montgomery have both drawn starts elsewhere so have some seasoning. Devin Clark is thought of highly by the coaching staff and so far seems to be being pushed hard this offseason. Certainly no guarantees there, but there's not guarantees in the 5th round as well.

You may not like Rabach, but the coaching staff disagrees with you. Considering some writers felt that he had a Pro Bowl-caliber season, maybe there is something there despite some of his weaknesses.


If you are one of the few to think that Offensive line is not an issue on this team think about the second half collapse last year...2-6 record, ranked 30 out of 32 teams in offensive scoring.

An issue? Yes. The only issue, no.


Offensive line issues don't simply vanish over night. We play in one of the toughest devisions for an offensive lineman asking them to go against some of the best Defensive Lines in the entire league 6 times a year. Adding Dockery wasn't enough for us to fix this. Now next year because we never looked at this position we are looking at adding not only a new QB, but 3 to 4 linemen as well. Ignoring this position this draft was a horrible move to make. We should have drafted some prospects to groom and gotten a jump on this. Instead we drafted another TE, and 2 LBers that none of the draft geeks thought would be drafted. That's a stupid stupid move.

http://www.redskins.com/gen/players/Eddie_Williams.jsp

He's a FB, not a TE. Also, if you didn't think that depth at LB wasn't an issue, then you are an idiot. We were thin as hell there, far thinner than we were at OL.


Funny you say that and then defend them. Who was impressed with the drafting this teams done outside of the first and second round picks since Vinny took over? We drafted 10 players last year and our 7th rounder was the only one to be a starter. We just drafted 6 players a year later and it looks like from those we got maybe 2 starters. 3 for 16 and you want to defend decisions like they made to ignore the biggest need in the draft for players no one thought were going to be drafted. I'm not saying I know more then they do but I will say that I think that the idea that we can get by with some undrafted players on the offensive line is stupid. I would have drafted better then we did.

Glad we have a football expert here. What team to you work for again? :D

I think we've actually done quite well in the later rounds. You don't find many of your starters down there, but Monty, Golston, Doughty, Blades and yes, Horton, have all drawn starts and acquitted themselves well. As for other players, Kareem Moore is playing behind Landry and Colt is behind Campbell still learning the NFL game.


Oh I don't? Guess what Longshot? I completely get that. It's you that doesn't get this. I'm not the one saying some stupid thing like "developing a FB when we have a PROBOWL FB is more important then developing an offensive linemen when we have a very old offensive line and need a ton of help there". Stop apologizing for this stupidity and get honest about this. Turning a TE into a FB doesn't rank on the team needs nearly as high as developing young players on the offensive line. In fact the entire idea that this teams going to be able to turn a TE into a FB at the professional level is stupid. We have a PROBOWL FB now, we don't have a single person not even you saying predraft that we needed another FB as badly as we needed Offensive Linemen. If you weren't apologizing and making excuses for the teams stupid moves you might admit that. But you can keep on insulting people who don't seem to agree with you that we have a good offensive line like you like to do

So, I guess you would have liked an OL pick, even if the team didn't think he was quite as good as other players, or even if the player didn't have a chance to make a roster. I wonder a lot if people would be happier trying for a particular position and failing rather than going for a different position and succeeding.

You don't always choose who the best players available are, and the teams who do the best in the draft take what the draft gives them or try to manouver around to get what they need. They did say that they did try moving around, but there weren't many takers for where they wanted to go. So, they took who was best in their eyes.