JC doesn't have the TOUCH on his deep ball...What???

[SkinsfanFL]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass? TOUCH is what you need on a downhill putt on a slippery green. TOUCH is important when participating in egg toss. TOUCH is what you need to be a massage therapist. Not a quarterback.



If the ball hits you in the hands, shouldn't an NFL receiver be able to catch it! Is it the near perfect spiral JC throws on the long ball that loses it's TOUCH somewhere between the time it leaves his hand and hits his receivers? What are you guys talking about? Does Favre's 40 yard “wobbly bullet” have TOUCH?



Can you guys/gals that complain about JC's TOUCH even throw the ball 20 yards, let alone 40? TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.

:point2sky


HTTR

[SkinsWarrior81]

Dude, I throw the most perfect Nerf Football ever. 80 yards. In the rain. Up hill both ways. With newspaper on my feet.

[Burgold]

I think touch is much more important with those five yard bullets. Knowing exactly how much power you need to get it there and yet make it catchable. A qb does need to have a "feel" for placing a deep ball, but I agree touch is the wrong verb. Jason's touch or feel for the deep pass is decent, but he's no 1986 Jay Schroeder.

[PlayAction]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass?
:point2sky

[LEFT]HTTR

What brought this rant on? Never heard any concerns about Campbelll's touch on long throws. Just the short stuff.

[Stew]

What brought this rant on? Never heard any concerns about Campbelll's touch on long throws. Just the short stuff.

Yep, his long ball is one of his better throws actually. Its his finesse on short to mid range passes that needs work. he usually "tosses" those a yard or two too high or in front. His short pass "Bullets" need a little touch as well. I think the power he throws his short passes with contributes to the WR's dropped passes.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I think touch is much more important with those five yard bullets. Knowing exactly how much power you need to get it there and yet make it catchable. A qb does need to have a "feel" for placing a deep ball, but I agree touch is the wrong verb. Jason's touch or feel for the deep pass is decent, but he's no 1986 Jay Schroeder.Thank you.

/thread

[DCsportsfan53]

He doesn't. He may have an arm but he throws a terrible deep ball. When Moss got 1 on 1 even limp armed 87 year old Brunell knew throw it high, short and outside and let Moss adjust to it. The underthrown deep ball is the hardest for a defender to defend. Moss usually caught them and if not, there's almost zero chance for an INT. I have never once seen JC make that throw. Not once. All his deep balls are 60 yards bullets with no arc on them. He makes Moss stretch for them in full stride. It's an easier throw for the defender and a tougher throw for Moss. It doesn't look like it on TV but the full stride, over the head deep ball is a really, really tough catch. JC has no touch on his deep balls. He needs to place them better and put them out there with less velocity and more lift. But that he means he's got to read the play quicker and get the ball out quicker.

[HailGreen28]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass? TOUCH is what you need on a downhill putt on a slippery green. TOUCH is important when participating in egg toss. TOUCH is what you need to be a massage therapist. Not a quarterback.



If the ball hits you in the hands, shouldn't an NFL receiver be able to catch it! Is it the near perfect spiral JC throws on the long ball that loses it's TOUCH somewhere between the time it leaves his hand and hits his receivers? What are you guys talking about? Does Favre's 40 yard “wobbly bullet” have TOUCH?



Can you guys/gals that complain about JC's TOUCH even throw the ball 20 yards, let alone 40? TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.

:point2sky


HTTR
I thought "touch" was laying off the speed on the short passes. Unlike say Favre's tendency to throw cannon shots short. No complaints about Campbell there.

[mnb123]

I think the complaints with JC's long ball has to do with the fact of him rocketing it 40 yards in the air vs. putting a little air under it so the receiver can make a play

[terrifNick21]

Dude, I throw the most perfect Nerf Football ever. 80 yards. In the rain. Up hill both ways. With newspaper on my feet.

Now that's what I call talent..:D

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Dude, I throw the most perfect Nerf Football ever. 80 yards. In the rain. Up hill both ways. With newspaper on my feet.Can you jump into a Ford F-150 in sandals? :D

You need some hypemen.

[RocketCitySkins]

You forgot to include one of these.......



http://i41.tinypic.com/219q80y.jpg

[whitejimmy]

I don't know if "touch" is the right word, but JC doesn't have a good long ball. He throws it too flat. There should be a lot of air under a good long ball, and it should land nose down. When thrown on target, it's impossible to cover. It's amazing that JC has the arm to throw a 45-yard pass on a line, but it does allow for the defender to knock it down. It is also much harder to be accurate with a flat long pass (and JC isn't even very accurate on short passes). It's not in the air very long, so the receiver can't adjust to it.

Yeah, sorry, we're all fans, but he really doesn't have a great deep ball.

[terrifNick21]

You forgot to include one of these.......



http://i41.tinypic.com/219q80y.jpg
:rotflmao: Funny.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

You forgot to include one of these.......:rotflmao:

[Snagletooth]

Yeah he throws a pretty spiral, but he needs to get some arc under it, drop it in. He is much better than Ramsey, but he could use some work.

[bubba9497]

no touch? :doh:


Didn't anyone see Jason's video throwing two footballs???!!!

[terrifNick21]

no touch? :doh:


Didn't anyone see Jason's video throwing two footballs???!!!

I've seen that several times. Aren't those videos edited, though?

[Mister Happy]

It doesn't matter how much touch you have on your deep ball if you never throw it deep.

[Mahons21]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass? TOUCH is what you need on a downhill putt on a slippery green. TOUCH is important when participating in egg toss. TOUCH is what you need to be a massage therapist. Not a quarterback.



If the ball hits you in the hands, shouldn't an NFL receiver be able to catch it! Is it the near perfect spiral JC throws on the long ball that loses it's TOUCH somewhere between the time it leaves his hand and hits his receivers? What are you guys talking about? Does Favre's 40 yard “wobbly bullet” have TOUCH?



Can you guys/gals that complain about JC's TOUCH even throw the ball 20 yards, let alone 40? TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.

:point2sky


HTTR


-Are you being serious? Look at a good qb manning/brady long ball, it has air under it. It doesn't come out so flat that the WR can't run under the ball. Campbell ball is flat and often not to the outside shoulder, which allows DB's a better chance at the ball then the WR.

[Mahons21]

I've seen that several times. Aren't those videos edited, though?


-Ya obviously, there are a bunch of different NFL videos that came out that year.

[PROSCOUT]

Yep, his long ball is one of his better throws actually. Its his finesse on short to mid range passes that needs work. he usually "tosses" those a yard or two too high or in front. His short pass "Bullets" need a little touch as well. I think the power he throws his short passes with contributes to the WR's dropped passes.

Yes Jason throws one of the better long balls in the NFL....

its just that he can never hit anyone. His throws are either too short or too long. He needs so much work on accuracy. This is why he is such a GREAT short toss QB. His 60 percent passing percentage is all about being 70% from 5-7 yards. He gets a failing mark for those throws over 15 yards because he is at less than 50 percent.

I only remember 2 deep balls he successfully completed last season and those were on breakdowns in the pass rush when he was forced to throw it quick and as far as he could. On a straight timing route, he has been terrible and I expect him to improve or the Skins will not improve.

[jnhay]

Look here for the definition of touch - http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=1452159

[terrifNick21]

-Ya obviously, there are a bunch of different NFL videos that came out that year.

Mhm. That Andre Johnson one was sick.

[SkinsfanFL]

He doesn't. He may have an arm but he throws a terrible deep ball. When Moss got 1 on 1 even limp armed 87 year old Brunell knew throw it high, short and outside and let Moss adjust to it. The underthrown deep ball is the hardest for a defender to defend. Moss usually caught them and if not, there's almost zero chance for an INT. I have never once seen JC make that throw. Not once. All his deep balls are 60 yards bullets with no arc on them. He makes Moss stretch for them in full stride. It's an easier throw for the defender and a tougher throw for Moss. It doesn't look like it on TV but the full stride, over the head deep ball is a really, really tough catch. JC has no touch on his deep balls. He needs to place them better and put them out there with less velocity and more lift. But that he means he's got to read the play quicker and get the ball out quicker.

The underthrown deep ball? What? Your right, the underthrown deep ball is difficult to defend (because it's a bad pass, unless he meant to do it) but what is your reaction when the throw is underthrown and the receiver has a couple of steps on the coverage? Question...Have any of his receivers ever said JC's ball is difficult to catch?

[bubba9497]

I've seen that several times. Aren't those videos edited, though?


yes

I was just joking

[DButz65]

Dumbest thread of the week, congrats! 1 star for you

[Mark The Homer]

I don't understand the opening post. It's as if it's referring to an article or comment or something... but there is none. I don't get it.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I don't get it.Explanation:

http://www.funnyjokepics.com/funnythumbs/47733100%281%29.jpg

[SkinsfanFL]

Dumbest thread of the week, congrats! 1 star for you

That took some serious thought on your part, I hope you didn't hurt anything...But, thanks!

[bubba9497]

Explanation:

http://www.funnyjokepics.com/funnythumbs/47733100%281%29.jpg


how many beers will it take to make her attractive? :whoknows:

[SirClintonPortis]

JC had an underthrown deep ball against the Giants...it was intercepted...
So who was saying it is the right way to toss a long ball, even though Aikman was talking about how underthrowing Larry Fitz was a good thing just because Fitz is a freak of nature, but not for any other receiver....it's better to overthrow it so it doesn't get picked off.

[SkinsfanFL]

I don't understand the opening post. It's as if it's referring to an article or comment or something... but there is none. I don't get it.

No article Mark. Just a comment on the many post about JC's lack of touch on ES.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

The underthrown deep ball? What? Your right, the underthrown deep ball is difficult to defend (because it's a bad pass, unless he meant to do it) ?


The idea is that you SHOULD mean to do it often in 1-on-1 coverage. YOu don't recall Avery's catch that essentially beat us vs. the Rams? Same type of play. That's the most common deep pass play now because it allows the receiver to go up and get the ball and fight for it rather than hope the QB has put it right on stride.

The touch thing has to do with "loft." It's the same thing they worked with Patrick Ramsey on, because he was throwing javelins before. Jason often throws a poorly-placed or poorly-timed ball deep.

Even in the GB game that twas mostly Santana's fault for us losing, Campbell had a chance to basically win the game with a deep pass to Lloyd who was WIDE OPEN and he overthrew him.

Jason is probably, excepting a couple QBs with very weak arms, one of the top 5 worst starting QB deep ball throwers in the league.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

how many beers will it take to make her attractive? :whoknows:3 Gazillion.

[James Moss]

Matt Hasselbeck is a good touch passer. McNabb, not so good. He often rifles short passes, and sometimes with a downward slope.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

touch has everything to do with the deep ball. where the ball beats the corner more so then the reciever. You can't cover a perfectly thrown deep ball unless you are sitting on it which teams don't do with us because Jason never throws the same deep ball. Ramsey use to throw bombs on a rope and didn't give recivers room to adjust to the ball. Brunell actually had great touch on his deep ball example MNF Dallas Santanas two catches were great plays by santana but better throws by old man Mark

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Jason is probably, excepting a couple QBs with very weak arms, one of the top 5 worst starting QB deep ball throwers in the league.If this is true, it explains why we had no deep threat game last season. It's not that Zorn doesn't have it in his game plan, it's that he doesn't have the personnell to do it with.

Just a thought.

[DCsportsfan53]

Look here for the definition of touch - http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=1452159


Good find, he's talking about many of the things I mentioned. Trajectory of the ball, velocity and how getting the ball out sooner is key to optimizing those.



The underthrown deep ball? What? Your right, the underthrown deep ball is difficult to defend (because it's a bad pass, unless he meant to do it) but what is your reaction when the throw is underthrown and the receiver has a couple of steps on the coverage? Question...Have any of his receivers ever said JC's ball is difficult to catch?


Obviously it's not the best in every situation but one thing Brunell knew was, if Moss DOES NOT have a step and everything else is covered toss it up and let him work back to it. When Moss does have a step, Jason throws it too flat and that makes the catch more difficult. I recall Aikman mentioning it on several incomplete deep throws during one of the Dallas games last year. There's touch to every throw, deep and short, I'm sorry you don't understand football as well as you think you do.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Good find, he's talking about many of the things I mentioned. Trajectory of the ball, velocity and how getting the ball out sooner is key to optimizing those.Physics? Now I'm waiting for some posters to start with "Candle is dumb and can't understand how to throw the ball.". :doh:

[MrJL]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass? TOUCH is what you need on a downhill putt on a slippery green. TOUCH is important when participating in egg toss. TOUCH is what you need to be a massage therapist. Not a quarterback.




If the ball hits you in the hands, shouldn't an NFL receiver be able to catch it! Is it the near perfect spiral JC throws on the long ball that loses it's TOUCH somewhere between the time it leaves his hand and hits his receivers? What are you guys talking about? Does Favre's 40 yard “wobbly bullet” have TOUCH?



Can you guys/gals that complain about JC's TOUCH even throw the ball 20 yards, let alone 40? TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.

:point2sky



HTTR


They're trying to say aim I think. I have a feeling most who say that used to watch Rypien go deep.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass? TOUCH is what you need on a downhill putt on a slippery green. TOUCH is important when participating in egg toss. TOUCH is what you need to be a massage therapist. Not a quarterback.



If the ball hits you in the hands, shouldn't an NFL receiver be able to catch it! Is it the near perfect spiral JC throws on the long ball that loses it's TOUCH somewhere between the time it leaves his hand and hits his receivers? What are you guys talking about? Does Favre's 40 yard “wobbly bullet” have TOUCH?



Can you guys/gals that complain about JC's TOUCH even throw the ball 20 yards, let alone 40? TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.

:point2sky


HTTR

Troy Aikman made the comment. He's a HOF qb, so I'd take his opinion over any person's on this board. JC throws a "flatter trajectory" type deep ball and it is more difficult for the "receiver to run under the ball." Closed :silly:;)

[MrJL]

The idea is that you SHOULD mean to do it often in 1-on-1 coverage. YOu don't recall Avery's catch that essentially beat us vs. the Rams? Same type of play. That's the most common deep pass play now because it allows the receiver to go up and get the ball and fight for it rather than hope the QB has put it right on stride.


Wouldn't the pass to Avery have failed if Torrence had somply fallen in front of Avery instead of behind?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Wouldn't the pass to Avery have failed if Torrence had somply fallen in front of Avery instead of behind?

Possibly, but then maybe that wasn't the best underthrown pass. Also, the idea is that the Db is surprised by the underthrow and his reaction takes him out of the play, including falling. I don't remember if Torrence fell down while he was running or during some jostling or trying to recover. The point is that many DBs will fail to make it back to the ball or fall, even, thus making it a play that the receiver only has to make on the ball, not against a defender.

[Capt Rich Fla]

Touch is when your reciever is going up against a corner who can run a 4.3 and a safety coming from the side at mock 2 to take your guys head off if he has to slow down to catch the ball.

[Mickalino]

Of course you need "touch" on a deep ball.

Why wouldn't you ?!

[Vilandil Tasardur]

It's really all about the coverage. If the WR beats his man and has two or three steps then you want it deep and you want him to catch it in stride. I saw Lloyd get open like this several times and JC would throw them too far.

If the WR beats his man but only by a step then the throw has to be perfect. It can not be under thrown because the DB has position. It must be thrown in front and ahead of the receiver, but in in a way that will trick the defender. It needs to have enough arc to get OVER the defender while still being within reach of the WR's arms. Also, tricking the DB by throwing it over the opposite shoulder which they are running can work too. The WR will hopefully adjust to the other shoulder and the defender won't be able to. On these passes if the ball doesn't have the arc then the defender easily swats at it or intercepts it. The ball MUST go over him but not past the WR.

Now if the WR doesn't beat him man and doesn't have a step, or if he does beat him man a little BUT the safety is close enough that if you lead the WR that the safety will eat him, then you need to under throw the ball. This gives athletic recievers with more agility than the corners the chance to plant their feet, turn back, and jump up for the ball. Odds are your reciever can plant quicker, turn faster, and jump higher then the corner. With any luck, he's also taller. But a huge part of it is also just knowing your corner. This kind of pass is very effective against speedy corners like Deangelo Hall because they will run themselves right out of the play when they are sprint full speed ahead. It's also good agaisnt nickle corners because they aren't athletic enough to turn back for it.

[martytheman]

Yep, his long ball is one of his better throws actually. Its his finesse on short to mid range passes that needs work. he usually "tosses" those a yard or two too high or in front. His short pass "Bullets" need a little touch as well. I think the power he throws his short passes with contributes to the WR's dropped passes.

If his long ball are one of his better throws, that speaks volumes about how poor an overall qb he is. His long balls are HORRIBLE. Very rarely will you see a ball thrown 20+ yards that is catchable for the wr. I would wager to say that at least half of the long throws he made were due to the wr adjusting to the ball and making a good catch rather than a well thrown ball put where the reciever can catch it.

[chrisbcbu]

No article Mark. Just a comment on the many post about JC's lack of touch on ES.

Where in P'cola do you live? I live in Pace just outside of P'cola. Still have alot of family there.

[AAARedskin]

Jason Campbell has poor accuracy on his deep passes that are OVER 40 yards. Period. If you need this explained, I am not gonna waste any time trying to help fans who just doesn't get it. In contrast, Campbell throws a FANTASTIC pass down the field in the 15 to 35 yard range. Zorn should realize this and have Jason throwing DOWN THE FIELD a little more often....

Hail!!!!

[AAARedskin]

Just to follow up, look back at the dream season QB Mark Rypien had with the Skins when they last won it all. His accuracy on the deep ball was NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL......dropping the ball right into the WRs hands.

[jtyler42]

Two throws that come to mind of JC missing "wide" open deep ball are both from the 07' season...The PA pass to Moss against the Eagles in Philly on monday night, and the PA pass to Moss against the Jets...On Both plays Moss had at least 4-5 steps on his man and JC just simply overthrew the ball...

It seems to me the problem with our deep passing game is that either JC just misses the WR or the WR slows down/gives up on the play then JC unleashes a rocket and the WR can't catch up...almost like the WR doesn't know that JC has a cannon...

I think it's more a thing of TIMING than accuracy or touch, and the WR continuing to run, and to fight for the ball...IF I was the QB I wouldn't want to throw it deep if one of our WR's was covered b/c our recievers don't fight for the ball...If it doesn't hit them in the hands it won't be caught...

[stevemcqueen1]

You definitely need touch on short passes and dumps. It's absolutely part of playing quarterback.

[airs0ft3r]

Does everybody else remember the number of times the ball went right through Santana's hands? Are you really just itching for a reason to hate him?

[SkinsfanFL]

Just to follow up, look back at the dream season QB Mark Rypien had with the Skins when they last won it all. His accuracy on the deep ball was NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL......dropping the ball right into the WRs hands.

He also had TWO TOP 10 receivers in the league with Gary Clark and Art Monk...Last year Santana was #15 and Randel-El was #42. The Skins need more weapons at the receiver spot.

[martytheman]

He also had TWO TOP 10 receivers in the league with Gary Clark and Art Monk...Last year Santana was #15 and Randel-El was #42. The Skins need more weapons at the receiver spot.

I don't think that's entirely attributable to the wr's. Moss was open plenty last season and the one before, JC just sucks at putting the ball where it is catchable.

[fnkdctr(007)]

He also had TWO TOP 10 receivers in the league with Gary Clark and Art Monk...Last year Santana was #15 and Randel-El was #42. The Skins need more weapons at the receiver spot.

Enter THECOMB Kelly, Devin BOOM BOOM Thomas, and Kelly Washington
:hysterical:

[redskins55]

I don't see how anyone can grade Campbell's deep pass when he's never thrown one consistantly. Gibbs was a running coach who threw deep occasionally. And zorn is a west coast passing coach throwing short slants and quick outs. Jason's best attribute has been his deep ball, its what he was highly touted in college for. Its up to the coaches to focus their offense around the strengths of their players.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

What does TOUCH have to do with a 40 yard pass? TOUCH is what you need on a downhill putt on a slippery green. TOUCH is important when participating in egg toss. TOUCH is what you need to be a massage therapist. Not a quarterback.



If the ball hits you in the hands, shouldn't an NFL receiver be able to catch it! Is it the near perfect spiral JC throws on the long ball that loses it's TOUCH somewhere between the time it leaves his hand and hits his receivers? What are you guys talking about? Does Favre's 40 yard “wobbly bullet” have TOUCH?



Can you guys/gals that complain about JC's TOUCH even throw the ball 20 yards, let alone 40? TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.

:point2sky


HTTR

You have obviously never thrown a football.

[wildbill1952]

Just to follow up, look back at the dream season QB Mark Rypien had with the Skins when they last won it all. His accuracy on the deep ball was NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL......dropping the ball right into the WRs hands.Rypien did have nice touch into his receiverS hands. Please note the emphasis on the S indicating he had more than one receiver. Moss is double-covered all season. When he isn't you will occasionally see a well thrown ball with touch from JC as in the New Orleans game.

Strong armed QB's often tend to throw any long passes on a rope. Touch is the ability to throw the ball with an arc (air under the ball) and have it hit the receiver in stride, whether that's forty yards downfield or just beyond the fingertips of a LB covering a TE or RB or over the heads of charging DL on a screen pass. Whether Jason supporter or Jason hater, I have seen JC do that. Not every time, but I have seen improvement.

Accuracy, although an element of touch on the long ball, is more often associated, at least in my mind, with crossing patterns. When someone comes across the middle of the field, if the receiver is reaching back to catch the ball the pass is inaccurate. Touch is less of a consideration, but where the ball is thrown, high, low, on the numbers. or too far ahead or too far behind or again, on the numbers is far more important than touch. Rypien and Schroeder both had trouble on that throw. So does Campbell. Again, the QB I saw last season looked lots better than the Campbell I saw two seasons ago.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rypien was an average QB. So was Theismann and so was Williams. They each won Super Bowls. But each of these had great OL and more than one great receiver. Campbell, Brunell and Ramsey are all average QB's. None of these had the OL or the receivers the other 3 had. We have debated endlessly on JC's ability. Unless you give the guy the same quality weapons these other average QB's had, you'll never know how good average can be.

[jflow78]

If we want to talk about QBs with absolutely no touch, look no further than HoFer

40723

This man never knew a WR he didn't try to impale with a football from 5-85 yards away.

[redskins55]

Two throws that come to mind of JC missing "wide" open deep ball are both from the 07' season...The PA pass to Moss against the Eagles in Philly on monday night, and the PA pass to Moss against the Jets...On Both plays Moss had at least 4-5 steps on his man and JC just simply overthrew the ball...

It seems to me the problem with our deep passing game is that either JC just misses the WR or the WR slows down/gives up on the play then JC unleashes a rocket and the WR can't catch up...almost like the WR doesn't know that JC has a cannon...

I think it's more a thing of TIMING than accuracy or touch, and the WR continuing to run, and to fight for the ball...IF I was the QB I wouldn't want to throw it deep if one of our WR's was covered b/c our recievers don't fight for the ball...If it doesn't hit them in the hands it won't be caught...


Those are great points.. However there is one thing i'd like to point out about Campbell's touch. Look at that same 07' eagles game when he over threw Moss, Campbell throws a perfect 20yd fade to Cooley in the end zone at halftime with incredible touch. It hit Cooley in stride on his palms while arching high enough for the eagle's Brian Dawkins to miss. And ur right about our recievers. Our recievers do need to show some fight. Thrash is the only one who fights for the ball but he never catches those types of balls they just fall to the ground because Thrash isnt atheletic enough. Moss is a speed burner and crisp route runner but not a physical presence like T.O or Bolden. Ultimately the answer probably is stepping up the play of everyone but more so timing.. as you said!

[kramdizzle]

his touch is horrible. his throws remind me of a line drive in baseball

[Califan007]

Jason Campbell is NOT a very good deep ball passer, unfortunately...I have no idea if that's something that can be developed or if you just have "it" naturally. My thought is that it's the latter, though...

[Califan007]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rypien was an average QB. So was Theismann and so was Williams. They each won Super Bowls. But each of these had great OL and more than one great receiver. Campbell, Brunell and Ramsey are all average QB's. None of these had the OL or the receivers the other 3 had. We have debated endlessly on JC's ability. Unless you give the guy the same quality weapons these other average QB's had, you'll never know how good average can be.
While I agree with most of what you said, I think the Skins are in need of a QB who can rise above the limitations of the players around him. I felt like, for awhile last season Jason Campbell was turning into that type of QB. I felt for a longer period last year, though, that he wasn't lol...He's gotta show it this season or he'll probably never show it.

That being said, I'm still glad we didn't sell the farm to get either Cutler or Sanchez...

[Morneblade]

He needs to place them better and put them out there with less velocity and more lift. But that he means he's got to read the play quicker and get the ball out quicker.

Um, all this does is make it easier for safties to get there. You throw rainbows in the NFL, you're gonna get picked......alot. :doh:

[FunBunch7]

The game AT Dallas last year showed that JC des NOT have very good touch...Santana was WIDE OPEN down the side line twice and JC way underthrew him...Moss came back to catch the passes but we settled for a FG on one of them which would have been 6 if he just threw him in stride.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Campbell can't put touch on a screen, nor does he have enough accuracy to consistently get the ball to the RB, or WR in stride so they can have an opportunity to make a move and turn up field, they are always reaching behind them, or jumping for the ball wasting valuable milliseconds allowing the defense to react, and we are actually talking about his down field touch?

Amazing how a brief off season can make people forget just how bad JC is.

Let's forget about his inability to learn an offense for a minute, the guy is horribly inaccurate, so even if he does conjure up the ability to learn a playbook there's still one problem, he doesn't posses the ability to consistently complete passes even he can find the open receiver.

[RocketCitySkins]

I don't think that's entirely attributable to the wr's. Moss was open plenty last season and the one before, JC just sucks at putting the ball where it is catchable.

No, he wasn't. The announcers talked the entire 1st Philly game about how he had been taken completely out of the game by double teams. Same from the Steelers game on. Even Santana said he was being shut down and Zorn was trying to find a way to get back in the games.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

He doesn't. He may have an arm but he throws a terrible deep ball. When Moss got 1 on 1 even limp armed 87 year old Brunell knew throw it high, short and outside and let Moss adjust to it. The underthrown deep ball is the hardest for a defender to defend. Moss usually caught them and if not, there's almost zero chance for an INT. I have never once seen JC make that throw. Not once. All his deep balls are 60 yards bullets with no arc on them. He makes Moss stretch for them in full stride. It's an easier throw for the defender and a tougher throw for Moss. It doesn't look like it on TV but the full stride, over the head deep ball is a really, really tough catch. JC has no touch on his deep balls. He needs to place them better and put them out there with less velocity and more lift. But that he means he's got to read the play quicker and get the ball out quicker.
This.

QFT.

+1.

:)

[TANAMAN]

The game AT Dallas last year showed that JC des NOT have very good touch...Santana was WIDE OPEN down the side line twice and JC way underthrew him...Moss came back to catch the passes but we settled for a FG on one of them which would have been 6 if he just threw him in stride.

Didn't JC have to avoid and reset to throw one and throw the other while running up into the pocket off balance basically on one leg? How do you expect either of those passes to be perfect. And for the record they both were thrown with a nice arc it's just one was underthrown and one led Tana out of bounds. But they happened because of the pressure JC was under. If JC was given another second on either of those passes, as open as Moss was those are both TD's. Hell we were lucky they even got there because in '07 they wouldn't have, that avoid, reset, and throw is something Zorn taught and stressed all off season to Campbell.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Um, all this does is make it easier for safties to get there. You throw rainbows in the NFL, you're gonna get picked......alot. :doh:
Not if you look the safety off the way a good QB should. You need to stare down the fly pattern down the left side to get the safety committing to it before you come back and arc one over the nickle corner to the WR running a post right into the spot vacated by the safety fifteen yards down field following the fly.

Most pass plays have at least one fly pattern at any given moment. Even though they are rarely thrown and rarely the number one option, they FORCE the safeties back and help get the posts, ins, outs, and other short to intermediate routes open. If the QB doesn't look the safety onto these fly routes then the shorter ones won't be open, and if he expects to get the fly route open, he better look the safety down onto one of these routes.

Picture this. Moss and El are lined up on the left side. Moss goes deep on a fly and El runs a post in to the middle of the field. If JC stares down Moss then then safety follows him and El may or may not be open depending on what the other safety does, how deep the LBs are, and how well the corner plays him. But if JC stares down El and the safety, thinking he has a pick, jumps it then that leaves Moss 1-1 with a corner on the fly pattern. Then JC is plenty free to put arc under the ball and not worry about a safety.

[FunBunch7]

Didn't JC have to avoid and reset to throw one and throw the other while running up into the pocket off balance basically on one leg? How do you expect either of those passes to be perfect. And for the record they both were thrown with a nice arc it's just one was underthrown and one led Tana out of bounds. But they happened because of the pressure JC was under. If JC was given another second on either of those passes, as open as Moss was those are both TD's. Hell we were lucky they even got there because in '07 they wouldn't have, that avoid, reset, and throw is something Zorn taught and stressed all off season to Campbell.

At this level, EVERY QB can throw an "arc"...the difference is hrowing an "arc" and hitting the receiver in stride. When a quarterback is under pressure, they tend to "over throw" the ball...when there is little pressure and they are worried about the free safety, they tend to under throw the ball. JC was not under very much pressure during the 2 thorws I mentioned above.

When ou think about it, we were all punped up about him not thowing a single pick the first half of the season...but during the 2nd half, starting with the Steelers game...he was very much trying NOT to force throws...this caused him to "under throw" his receivers.

Sometimes I htink a QB NEEDS to gun it in there and risk a pick...make something happen...you don't need to be mistake free...but you can't be gun shy!!!!!

[jtyler42]

Those are great points.. However there is one thing i'd like to point out about Campbell's touch. Look at that same 07' eagles game when he over threw Moss, Campbell throws a perfect 20yd fade to Cooley in the end zone at halftime with incredible touch. It hit Cooley in stride on his palms while arching high enough for the eagle's Brian Dawkins to miss. And ur right about our recievers. Our recievers do need to show some fight. Thrash is the only one who fights for the ball but he never catches those types of balls they just fall to the ground because Thrash isnt atheletic enough. Moss is a speed burner and crisp route runner but not a physical presence like T.O or Bolden. Ultimately the answer probably is stepping up the play of everyone but more so timing.. as you said!

I agree...I was just trying to point out both sides of the argument...JC definitely improved his deep accuracy under Zorn last yr, but he needs to improve again this yr b/c we can not afford to leave points on the board...


The game AT Dallas last year showed that JC des NOT have very good touch...Santana was WIDE OPEN down the side line twice and JC way underthrew him...Moss came back to catch the passes but we settled for a FG on one of them which would have been 6 if he just threw him in stride.


Didn't JC have to avoid and reset to throw one and throw the other while running up into the pocket off balance basically on one leg? How do you expect either of those passes to be perfect. And for the record they both were thrown with a nice arc it's just one was underthrown and one led Tana out of bounds. But they happened because of the pressure JC was under. If JC was given another second on either of those passes, as open as Moss was those are both TD's. Hell we were lucky they even got there because in '07 they wouldn't have, that avoid, reset, and throw is something Zorn taught and stressed all off season to Campbell.

This is exactly how I was going to respond FunBunch7's post from above...JC gets a raw deal on this board...Sure he misses plays that he should make sometimes, but ALL QB's do...JC just has to start making more plays than he misses, that's all...I really believe that we will see that out of him this season...

[jtyler42]

JC was not under very much pressure during the 2 thorws I mentioned above.


Not under much pressure?

On the first pass to Moss he got hit by Ware from the back bounced off of him and then another DL hit him right in the face when he threw it...

On the second pass he had to step up all the way into the pocket b/c of pressure and throw it off of one foot, so he wasn't able to get a lot on the ball...

If you don't believe me fast forward the following video to the 5:21 mark for the first play, and then to the 5:42 mark for the second play...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoaLukSwdbo

[1972FAN]

I don't understand the opening post. It's as if it's referring to an article or comment or something... but there is none. I don't get it.

Some I love Jason propagnda. Like I said if he gets the job done. I'm happy, if he doesn't he and Zorn, I predict will both be GONE next year. I not on any Jason band wagon I'm on the winning band wagon. Jim Zorn could be QB-ing in their, I don't care as long as we go DEEP in the playoffs or Superbowl.

[Shilsu]

Not under much pressure?

On the first pass to Moss he got hit by Ware from the back bounced off of him and then another DL hit him right in the face when he threw it...

On the second pass he had to step up all the way into the pocket b/c of pressure and throw it off of one foot, so he wasn't able to get a lot on the ball...

If you don't believe me fast forward the following video to the 5:21 mark for the first play, and then to the 5:42 mark for the second play...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoaLukSwdbo

Campbell was pressured a lot even in the first Dallas game, but those throws to Moss weren't good examples... He had a huge pocket and it's pure fundamentals for him to step up into it.

[clarkskin]

JC's strength is throwing the deep ball. Announcers and some fans harp on "getting more air under the ball" but in reality it is the simple fact of making a good throw or not. JC's first pass in the NFL should have been an 80 yard TD pass to Brandon Lloyd, but he dropped it. He's fine on the deep ball, just hasn't had many opportunities to make the connections. BTW, Jay Schroeder had one of the best arms in NFL history and threw an incredible deep ball. And Ryp was one of the most accurate down field passers I've ever seen. JC has more talent than either, and will hopefully display that this year.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Campbell was pressured a lot even in the first Dallas game, but those throws to Moss weren't good examples... He had a huge pocket and it's pure fundamentals for him to step up into it.
The first one is a bit iffy. If he had stepped up sooner he would have had an EASY throw and Ware never would have come near him. That said, he didn't step up because he didn't see Ware. JC needs to feel it and move up. He needs to know that he should ALWAYS step up when the pocket is there, no reason not to.

The second one is clear as day. JC sees the ends collapsing and space in front of it, and he panics and skips into it like a girl scout. He needs to take those three or four choppy hops and turn them into a 1-2 fluid step up motion. BOTH should have been touchdowns.

[kuraitengai]

TOUCH is impossible on a long throw with a real football...Maybe your thinking about the perfect TOUCH you had when you played football...NERF Football.
i think youve been spending too much time playing with your nerf football.

touch is NOT impossible on a long throw with a real football. i guess you must have missed all the deep balls romo threw to TO that dropped softly over his shoulder away from the defender. THAT was touch. or when brunell dropped two balls over moss's shoulder splitting the defenders back in dallas a few years ago. all brunell had WAS touch.

and yes, i can throw a ball 20 yards. yes i can throw a ball 40 yards. last i checked i can throw a ball 55 yards. and the throws have touch on them with that distance. so its not impossible.

[tthorsen5]

JC just needs to put a little more are under the ball so that the receiver can run under it.