True or False: On Paper, the Redskins have a championship defense

[SMOSS89]

This is, of course, with the usual caveat that on paper != the field of play.


Hmmm...let's see....


- Great mix of youth and veterans
- Depth at DT
- Weird depth at LB (lol)
- Awesome secondary, with good, young depth (Smoot = veteran, not bad)
- Ends who can stuff run well, with mix of versatile End/Tackle players, in addition to having some pass rush ability (Carter)


Thoughts?

[Busch1724]

We don't OK linebackers with no depth. If we happen to get a passrush this year that will be different. Also if we happen to get a passrush our secondary will be much improved. We could be if we stay healthy, but the linebacker corp scares me.

[THUNDERDOME]

If they can produce more turnovers and score some points, True.

[Busch1724]

BTW, true if we can stay healthy. Depth scares me.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think we are relying a hell of a hot on Daniels who is very old, is coming off a serious knee injury, and was not wanted by anyone else.

I think we are going to struggled on D for the first 8 games. Because rookie DEs always take a while to acclimated, people aren't going to be used to Haynesworth, and just because in general.

And then - if Haynesworth stays healthy - the D is going to get very very good for the second half of the year.

[truskinsfan18]

We had a championship defense last season as well. We were top 5. It's too bad our offense was a winless type of offense. If we had a top 10 even top 12 offense last year we would have gone all the way.

[Buck812]

The defense could be very fun to watch.

[freestyln]

Madden 2010 is gonna be sick......

[STBonecrusher21]

Define chapionship defense please..

If you're asking if we can win a championship soley on the play of our defnese, I'll have to disagree. We've failed with a good defense the last 3 out of 4 years.

But if you're asking if our offense really clicks, is our defense good enough to help us win a championship, I'd say absolutely.

[MattFancy]

I'd say true. Our only weakness is at OLB and we still have plenty of time to address that. We have a good mix of guys who could hold it down for the season. But other than WOLB, I'd say our defense is set.

[SoCalSkins]

They have had a championship defense every year since 2004 with the exception of 2006.

[BigMike619]

They have had a championship defense every year since 2004 with the exception of 2006.

my thoughts exactly. weve been champions on paper for years.

its chemistry that matters most.

[stoney26]

We had a championship defense last season as well. We were top 5. It's too bad our offense was a winless type of offense. If we had a top 10 even top 12 offense last year we would have gone all the way.

We did not have a championship defense last year. We couldnt get off the field when it counted. We couldnt force turnovers or get sacks. We had a solid defense but it would be a stretch to call championship calliber in my opinion. My mind could probaly be changed here with some good arguments though.

[Laxpunk2006]

On paper definitely.

We essentially return our entire 2008 defense when you consider Springs and Washington were hurt for more games than they played. If you take that into account the only "starter" we lost was the Taylor/Evans combination at LE which wasn't exactly a strong point to begin with. With Daniels providing at least equal run support as Evans and Orakpo/Wilson/whoever takes the third down spot hopefully being healthier than Jason ever was I think we can call that a wash.

What we do have to look forward to is Rocky and Carlos is contract years. This shouldn't make a difference in performance but history tells us it does. We can also look forward to the presence of Haynesworth on the DL taking double teams away from Griffin and Carter and hopefully making everyone around him better.

So yes, on paper we have a great defense. Hopefully they are as good on the field.

[HighOnHendrix]

I'd say true. Our only weakness is at OLB and we still have plenty of time to address that. We have a good mix of guys who could hold it down for the season. But other than WOLB, I'd say our defense is set.

Strong-side is our problem. Rocky is the WILL, as long as he is healthy that spot is ok. No, even on paper our D is not championship. It's heading that way, IMO, but we're not there yet. We need a SAM LB and another really good DT to make Haynesworth's play really count. I like our corners, but wouldn't mind an upgrade there.

[santana_4_prez]

I don't know man...I don't really like the statement "championship defense"...because several teams have one (example: Ravens), but only one team can win a chapionship in a year.

[usapatriot]

I think we've had a championship D for a while now. The problem is the offense can't score points. And until we fix that we won't be a championship team either.

[Probos]

No paper they look very good -- gotta see them play first though.

[D'Pablo]

I'm sorry, but who's our starting strongside linebacker? Does anyone else remember how porous our D was with Warrick Holdman at the weakside position? We need a one year stopgap at that spot and soon.

[No_Pressure]

I'm concerned about our situation at linebacker. Fletcher starts at middle, Rocky somewhere, and then who? We're missing an important pass rushing position.

HB Blades shouldn't play anything but the middle, Robert Thomas isn't good, neither is Tyson Smith, Fincher isn't...what are we gonna start a rookie at one of our linebacker positions?

None the less we had a great defense with the likes of I-57 and Lemar Marshall back there, we can have a great defense with a sub-par linebacker...it really would be the only weakness in the starting lineup...depth is a totally different scary question...

[stoney26]

I'm sorry, but who's our starting strongside linebacker? Does anyone else remember how porous our D was with Warrick Holdman at the weakside position? We need a one year stopgap at that spot and soon.

Duh....Orakpo on 1st and 2nd and Chris Wilson on 3rd!! You know, since we like to players out of place and all.

[Rocky52Mc]

IMO, our 4th ranked defense is overrated.

It seemed to me more like a 9th ranked defense with duct tape holding together the legs of the injured.

There's no doubt in my mind that we will miss Mdub, I'm serious too. Shawn Springs as well.

It's time for Carlos Rogers to show some real maturity and take hold of the secondary along with LaRon Landry and Fred Smoot to help guys like Barnes, Horton, Doughty, Tryon(?), and Moore. These are the leaders of our secondary and without Springs we need someone to step up and challenge the big guy. That's Carlos - this is the real make or break year for Auburn.

Fletcher needs to be stable and McIntosh needs to take a more leadership role as we begin to finally mold guys like Blades and the rookies like Orakpo into the mix.

Haynesworth needs to get acquainted fast and all Daniels needs to do is hold his own. I'm sure Daniels will find some comfort in Griffen, along with the younger DT's playing big roles too.

All in all we have the personal, I think it's more of a health and maturity thing at this point.

[Spartacus87]

Duh....Orakpo on 1st and 2nd and Chris Wilson on 3rd!! You know, since we like to players out of place and all. I'm sure you've put together a lot of top 10 defenses in the NFL before, the way the Redskins staff has done the past few years, with older, more injury prone talent than what they're working with now.

I'm hardly worried about our defense this year. This is arguably the most talented secondary across the board that we've had in awhile, not to mention how young the guys back there are.

The only LB spot in the air is the SAM, but we didn't have a routine player there last year and pulled that position off just fine alternating different guys.

Having Haynesworth in the mix now at DT changes the entire scope of the d-line from what it's been in recent years, and when Orakpo gets in the mix that'll make it that much better.

The other side of the ball is where the real question marks are.

[zoony]

I'd say false, in a very big way. There are serious questions at linebacker, the heart of the defense.

Rocky MacIntosh has shown himself to be a middle-tier starter. I think that's all we're going to get out of him (that's not bad, mind you. I'll take that any day of the week)

London Fletcher is great- but (I hate to jinx it) he is playing on borrowed time right now.

And that's the good news. ^^^^

.....

[cphil006]

True of False...

On Paper, the Redskins had the best LB corps of all-time in 2003...

all three LBs were Pro Bowlers the year before...

I thought we;ve moved past this kind of analysis.

[Oldskool]

False.

The huge hole at SSLB worries me to no end. And please don't give me that "Chris Wilson at SSLB" garbage. If he could play SSLB, he would have been doing so already.

[cphil006]

I'd say false, in a very big way. There are serious questions at linebacker, the heart of the defense.

Rocky MacIntosh has shown himself to be a middle-tier starter. I think that's all we're going to get out of him (that's not bad, mind you. I'll take that any day of the week)

London Fletcher is great- but (I hate to jinx it) he is playing on borrowed time right now.

And that's the good news. ^^^^

.....

I agree... we've got ZERO pass-rush... We;ve added big-time DTs before and it backfired in a big-time way.

Albert Haynesworth is good, but hasn't played as a Redskin yet.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

two things hold the D back from being elite, thats a pass rush and turnovers. if we even get one of those fixed this season, i think we'll be considered elite. maybe not steelers or ravens elite, but close to it.

[fullnelson9999]

False.

We have great names and they dont give up yards and points, which is good, but they dont produce turnovers. Thats the mark of a championship defense. Its why Pittsburgh won last year. Our defense last year couldnt do what Pittsburgh did. Heres hoping that changes this year, but since I havent seen anything on the field, we dont have a champ d.

[ConnSKINS26]

Madden 2010 is gonna be sick......

They dropped Deangelo Hall down to a 68 ovrall...

[DGREENHULK]

If they can produce more turnovers and score some points, True.

What he said...True.

[bgreg]

Well we don't have an awesome secondary, considering none of them seem capable of catching easy interceptions. That can be fixed though, so otherwise I'd say yes. They've just GOT to get takeaways!

[cphil006]

They dropped Deangelo Hall down to a 68 ovrall...

do they have the training mode to build him back up??

[SMOSS89]

True of False...

On Paper, the Redskins had the best LB corps of all-time in 2003...

all three LBs were Pro Bowlers the year before...

I thought we;ve moved past this kind of analysis.



True but hey, it's the offseason, what else we gonna talk about? Jason Campbell? I'm tired of that saga.

[Hunter_R]

I swear this thread existed last offseason.

[D'KanSkinFan]

The Redskins do have a championship team; have had for years. ;)

This year - lookin' good again.... Let's hope the injury virus doesn't get 'em or the non-team spirit plague ;)

Go SKINS, SuperBOWL bound :point2sky :dallasuck :gaintsuck :eaglesuck

[AAARedskin]

We had a championship defense last season as well. We were top 5. It's too bad our offense was a winless type of offense. If we had a top 10 even top 12 offense last year we would have gone all the way.
So true......look at the Cardinals last season as proof. The Skins have AND have had a better D than they do. Like you said, if the Skins ability to score POINTS would reach just an average level, the Skins could walk into the playoffs as a team that nobody wants to face. 90% of the blame should be laid right at the feet of the QB.

[ConnSKINS26]

do they have the training mode to build him back up??

I'm not sure, I just saw an article on easports.com or something that showed who went up and down the most with the new stretched ratings system. three of the five were Redskins :/

Deangelo Hall, Fred Smoot, and Devin Thomas all dropped considerably.

[vbundy]

the D will be good, but we have a hideous O. with campbell under center we wont average many points.

[ciresolstice]

I'd say no. You need 3 stand outs/true pro bowlers on your defense at least. We have Albert Haynesworth now, and London Fletcher...that's about it. I think it's a very good defense, but not a Championship D. As it stands we need a much better strong side linebacker and a true every down pass rushing defensive End. Or at least a true game changing/playmaker... Man, if Sean was still here. then we'd be talkin.

[Soup]

The biggest thing that worries me is injuries. But you can't help and think about what the possibilities are with all the talent on the defense.

[Braxford]

IF the SLB position is solidified and the rotation of Orkapo/Daniels/Wynn can be productive then yes, the Skins have a championship D on paper. If not then no. I think two big factors that no one is talking about is the production of London Fletcher and Rocky McIntosh. Fletcher is a straight beast and better end up in the HOF when his career is over. He is a great player but he is getting up there in age. He has shown no dropoff yet but if he does it could spell trouble. Rocky is a good young linebacker but not great yet. I think this is the year he gets it together and gets over 100 to 115 tackles as long as he stays healthy.

[Oldfan]

It's up to Greg Blache. If he plays his D as passively as he did last season, he'll have another overrated unit.

His D had just 18 takeaways, compared to the Ravens 34. That's a difference of 16 -- one per game. Each takeaway, on the average leads to four points. That's four points per game on the average. So, with Baltimore's 2008 defense, we likely win two or three more games... 10-6 or 11-5.

The Ravens were 11-5.

[Xero21]

If only talking about the starters, true. Depth could be better at DE/LB/CB, though hopefully Barnes and/or Tryon can step up and give us that.

[DCDiesel44]

Define chapionship defense please..

If you're asking if we can win a championship soley on the play of our defnese, I'll have to disagree. We've failed with a good defense the last 3 out of 4 years.

But if you're asking if our offense really clicks, is our defense good enough to help us win a championship, I'd say absolutely.

+1, took the words right out of my mouth

[stoney26]

[QUOTE=Spartacus87;6394411]I'm sure you've put together a lot of top 10 defenses in the NFL before, the way the Redskins staff has done the past few years, with older, more injury prone talent than what they're working with now.QUOTE]

I have. Ever heard of Madden?;)

[NattyLight]

If the could have kept Jason Taylor and trained Orakpo as a legit weak-side line backer with immediate impact on paper, the Skins would likely have the number 1 defense on paper.

Even in the absence of Taylor, the answer is yes, the Skins have a defense that is capable of winning a Super Bowl. Now only if they had a way to score some points....

/2 sheckles.

[tyman21]

If we are healthy and everyone plays like expected and Rocky absolutely blows up (just a random thing, could get lessen the weakness at LB), I'd love to see Romo try to compete with us.
:logo:

[paintrain]

In order for us to be a championship defense we've got to score defensive TD which we've struggled to do since the days of Green/Bailey. We need to have at least 5 defensive scores this year to be on that elite/championship level.

[celticsalmon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkw1LGIIfsE

[skins2victory]

True, but the question is can we make it threw the season healthy!!

[mi6]

Our LB corp is the weakest link. No one is big, fast, and disruptive ... someone like Ray Lewis in his prime.

[redshirtguy#45]

True of False...

On Paper, the Redskins had the best LB corps of all-time in 2003...

all three LBs were Pro Bowlers the year before...

I thought we;ve moved past this kind of analysis.

indeed. this team was winning the sb when they signed carrier/smith/george/etc... lets see how they play for real.

[illone]

I'd say no. You need 3 stand outs/true pro bowlers on your defense at least. We have Albert Haynesworth now, and London Fletcher...that's about it. I think it's a very good defense, but not a Championship D. As it stands we need a much better strong side linebacker and a true every down pass rushing defensive End. Or at least a true game changing/playmaker... Man, if Sean was still here. then we'd be talkin.


Skins have Pro Bowlers at all three levels of the defense.

Haynesworth, Fletch, and Hall.

I'd agree with you, though, that they are not a champ level type D yet. Not enough consistent pass rushers on this defense so we will have to see if Orakpo can get that done. If he does they are fairly close. Another SAM wouldn't hurt.

:2cents:

[NoCalMike]

The problem is that unless our offense scores more points, are defense is not going to look the same in the 4th quarter as it does in the first half.

Lets face it, this will be what the fifth straight year, since 2004 where our defense is good enough for a superbowl run, and the question mark is the offense.

[KNGwithOUTaCrwN]

I think we are relying a hell of a hot on Daniels who is very old, is coming off a serious knee injury, and was not wanted by anyone else.

I think we are going to struggled on D for the first 8 games. Because rookie DEs always take a while to acclimated, people aren't going to be used to Haynesworth, and just because in general.

And then - if Haynesworth stays healthy - the D is going to get very very good for the second half of the year.

well im really hoping were not gonna be struggling on defense the first 8. other than depth, i think we can say we're pretty much set. i mean, we have personnel and i guess we're fiddling around with the end and linebacker positions/players but we'll get it in time.

[Weapon X]

With all these new guys coming in why not? We finally have a corner that can actually catch the ball in D.Hall; we filled the line problem with Fat Al and then drafted arguably the best pass rusher in the draft Mr. Orakpo. Man I can't wait until the season starts our D is going to be something exciting to watch.

[Vicious]

We did not stop the run like we should have last year. We did not get the turnovers. If Daniels and Haynesworth are healthy at the end of the year, I bet we have looked good.

[redshirtguy#45]

So true......look at the Cardinals last season as proof. The Skins have AND have had a better D than they do. Like you said, if the Skins ability to score POINTS would reach just an average level, the Skins could walk into the playoffs as a team that nobody wants to face. 90% of the blame should be laid right at the feet of the QB.

i dont think the d for the skins was feared. no pressure, no turnovers. whats to be scared of?

[Weapon X]

Lets face it, this will be what the fifth straight year, since 2004 where our defense is good enough for a superbowl run, and the question mark is the offense.

Atleast its not the other way around, we should have a chance to be in everygame with our Defense. No team should be able to run up the score on us.

[redshirtguy#45]

Atleast its not the other way around, we should have a chance to be in everygame with our Defense. No team should be able to run up the score on us.

except the cheatriots... i hope they can force some turnovers with the changes made.

[fansince62]

Atleast its not the other way around, we should have a chance to be in everygame with our Defense. No team should be able to run up the score on us.


negatory...the defense was definitely not good enough for a SB run last season. the bend but don't break strategy simply doesn't work at crunch time....as we saw multiuple times last season. it will be interesting to see if Blache changes his basic philosophy to exploit the new talent/potential he has been handed.....right now...it's all a paper drill.