Of Attention Whores & Limited Ceiling Intelligence [Archive]

June-24th-2009, 07:13 AM

Now, keep in mind, these points will only apply to a handful of members, but we're putting this out here so everyone knows what's going on.:)

The following is a quote from the guy that started ES, Die Hard:

This is why it's become really easy to minimize my time and posting on this site. It's become nothing more than a microphone for attention whores. It's the people who don't have squat to say.... that talk the most and the loudest.
And you know what? He's right. Some of you here would do extremely well to understand those words & learn from them.

Lately we've noticed a shift from the Stadium to the Tailgate in those that talk the loudest/most with nothing to actually say. So has most of the Tailgate. If you feel the need to just blather every random thought in your head, do us all a favor & just shut up. Diarrhea of the keyboard isn't pretty, nor is it a remotely redeeming quality.

Also, if you feel the need to post three times in a row, don't. Learn to use the Multi Quote feature. Or the EDIT button below your post. You're basically spamming the board & we're done with merging your stream of consciousness back-to-back posts into a single post. You're creating entirely to much work for a group of guys that are not getting paid in the first place. It's easier if we just bounce you out of here, so we will.

Another issue we've noticed an increase in is some you just don't 'get it'. If a member tries to get you to clarify your points in a more effective fashion & challenge the logic of your thinking, then that's not trolling. Anyone is entitled to press you to clarify your own quotes and the reasonable implications somone who didn't know you well may draw from them, including the subliminal prejudices that can affect any of us.

If you say something & it leaves little to no doubt in responding person's mind that you pretty much lack intelligence, then don't be surprised if they call you an idiot as this always been the rule of thumb on ES. It's allowed. What it is not, is a personal attack. I know for a fact that Art & myself have had to explain that one more then any other Staff member . And that's still explaining it way more then it should have been needed.

As a Staff, our friendly suggestion is that some of you follow the simple mantra of 'read more, post less'.

So in closing, again for those of you this actually pertains to, you will either learn how to adjust your posting behavior accordingly or your membership will be terminated.

ES Staff

Major Harris

June-24th-2009, 07:16 AM

:applause:

(only thing i'll add is that art, from time to time, has used very loose interpretations of when it's ok to just degrade and humiliate someone based on that rule. but he's art, so what do you say? :D )

Zguy28

June-24th-2009, 07:40 AM

KDawg

June-24th-2009, 07:58 AM

I PM'ed DH about that very quote and I agreed wholeheartedly.

Personally I think some of the attention whore threads that are started for no reason other than to put your name in lights should result in a ban when it's a reoccuring behavior...

I've given up on Chalk Talk Threads... Why? because the stupid attention whore threads get more reads than the Chalk Talk threads... Which is fine by me, except the chalk talk threads don't take five minutes to put together. If people don't want to read football discussion, I'll just stop posting them. I have no need for attention, so I'm done with them until I see a shift in the trend.

Old Bay

June-24th-2009, 08:24 AM

Aww man. I wondered what happened to your Chalk Talk threads, KDawg. I enjoyed them greatly. I hope you get back to them, though I can understand why you got tired of it.

ACW

June-24th-2009, 08:24 AM

Okay, so what's the difference between "you're an idiot" and a personal attack? :whoknows:

And when the season starts it'll shift back to the Stadium :)

June-24th-2009, 08:28 AM

Okay, so what's the difference between "you're an idiot" and a personal attack? :whoknows:
Obviously you need to learn how to read more & post less. Allow me to help you with that.

Forehead

June-24th-2009, 08:35 AM

Aww man. I wondered what happened to your Chalk Talk threads, KDawg. I enjoyed them greatly. I hope you get back to them, though I can understand why you got tired of it.

I'll second this. My knowledge of the details of football, besides watching the Skins for years includes the following:

1. Being a backup defensive tackle in high school and barely playing.
2. Drawing plays in the dirt or on my hand during pick up games
3. A whole lot of Tecmo Super Bowl

I rarely if ever scream about a receiver running the wrong pattern, or the ball not being thrown to the correct shoulder, because I've never gotten that in depth. So things like the chalk talk are actually beneficial to me. I'd say bring them back, this board would improve tremendously if there were more threads like that, and less which are designed strictly to poke a stick at people.

And yes, I'm familiar with my hypocrisy since I started the ES dislikes: ToeJam thread. Though I maintain that I received a lot of good advice on how to get rid of athlete's foot.;)

Rdskn4Lyf21

June-24th-2009, 08:44 AM

Yes, I have noticed this as well. Disturbing trend. Its one reason why I have not been on here as much as of late. Too much meaningless spam, vitriol, and these: :rolleyes: when somebody responds in earnest disagreement.

I agree.

It seems (from what I've seen) that there's a faction that will tear at a poster instead of the thought. It makes it difficult to speak about things in a sincere manner.

buenosdiaz

June-24th-2009, 08:50 AM

Well...

First, I agree. I think we should try to promote more discourse. I think the Random Thought Thread however is a good place for the "thoughts that don't deserve threads".

And i don't know maybe MSF was onto something with just blocking people that annoy you (no i dont block any of you).

I think as a user thats familiarized himself with the site you can sort of see where a thread is going by the title/thread starter and even within the post you can do more of the same.

With that said I think respect is a two way street. While some of you are moderators or "veterans" on ES and get upset about some of the stuff goes on here, we are all adults and we should treat each other as such. The title of this thread is suggestive of the level of intellgience and respect that you have for said posters (who at this point are anonymous and I suppose can be taken subjectively by the reader. However, I do think that because of the tenure of some of the posters and moderators they feel they have a green light to disrespect board members. Like seriously, TK, you have brought up **** about me several times that is really inappropriate and you know you are being inappropriate. I have never said anything about you, know nothing about you, if i annoy you fine but be professional about it.

I don't take personal matters serious at my job and I think we all agree that business is business. This is the type of personal BS that in my opinion does not need to be a part of this website.

If i have said something that offends you i'm sorry that wasn't my intention.

June-24th-2009, 08:54 AM

The fact that a member is banned for posting something on ANOTHER site is ridiculous to me.
Clarify this for me because I have NO idea what you're talking about.:)

SnyderShrugged

June-24th-2009, 08:55 AM

June-24th-2009, 09:00 AM

BD -Just read your PM but for the sake of the board, I'm going to answer it right here.:)

BigMike was NOT banned for anything he said or did on FaceBook. Nor was he banned by me. So lets kill that bit of misinformation right now. If you want to know what he was banned for & by whom, then you can dig through hi posting history & find it. It shouldn't be to hard to figure out.

Bang

June-24th-2009, 09:25 AM

I understand what y'all are getting at, but I must say the ban hammer falls pretty often around here. we've seen some of the more colorful and informative posters in here get the boot, and that's unfortunate.
I agree there has to be rules and there's a large herd to control, I wonder if the "boys will be boys" rule comes into play? Sarge and Chomerics, for example are oil and water. They aren't ever going to mix. However when they got into it there was usually some good info and interesting points in there among the spit and venom. (and if it got to be too much, you guys can close the thread, or we could simply not open it.)
Now BigMike is gone? That SUCKS, frankly.

Sometimes I think people just have a bad day. Many of us have grown quite familiar with each other over the years here, even if we've never actually met or talked beyond these topics. We know we're all human and sometimes we say things we don't really mean, or things we regret later, just like we do away from here in our various lives. We've all had fights with people we love. **** happens, and most of the time it doesn't mean anything.
We all know who is liable to be more caustic in certain arguments. Some folks I won't engage even if I have a point to make on their post because I know it won't go anywhere. Some folks I won't engage because they always react in a certain way and it's not worth it. However, if I engage one of them, I should expect I know what I've gotten myself into.

I think in the tailgate especially we regulars kind of recognize that about one another.

I think by and large folks play fair, including a good number of our former regulars who have been dismissed. Occasionally someone may need a reprimand or a spanking, but we've thrown out a lot of the people who did more than post about their navel lint, or whatever.

I recognize there must be lines. But I also know that the line has a sliding scale. I know I've been afforded some leeway in some of the things I've said that others may not have. Seniority, I guess. (I've gotten a week off, too. I know why I and I can't disagree with it.)

I don't have a problem calling someone an idiot. Let's face it, some of you are idiots. :)
I try to be creative when I call someone an idiot rather than just come right out and say so. (Master Jumbo of the backhanded insult, I bow at thy feet.)
Sometimes it's fun to bat around some clown who doesn't know up from down. Especially talking football! I must say I do enjoy the TO debates.. I seem to be the only one in the world who likes that guy, and taking on 40 or 50 people who think I'm an idiot because of it is great fun. Take yer best shot! I've got better.

Some will no doubt take this the wrong way, but an observation.. as we've banned regs and as the old guard has left, the median age of the membership has dropped to about 22-23 by the look of it. And the number of pointless posts has gone up.

~Bang

Monte51Coleman

June-24th-2009, 09:37 AM

I agree. Nicely said, Bang.

rdsknbill

June-24th-2009, 09:44 AM

I understand what y'all are getting at, but I must say the ban hammer falls pretty often around here. we've seen some of the more colorful and informative posters in here get the boot, and that's unfortunate.
I agree there has to be rules and there's a large herd to control, I wonder if the "boys will be boys" comes into play? Sarge and Chomerics, for example are oil and water. They aren't ever going to mix. However when they got into it there was usually some good info and interesting points in there among the spit and venom. (and if it got to be too much, you guys can close the thread, or we could simply not open it.)
Now BigMike is gone? That SUCKS, frankly.

Sometimes I think people just have a bad day. Many of us have grown quite familiar with each other over the years here, even if we've never actually met or talked beyond these topics. We know we're all human and sometimes we say things we don't really mean, or things we regret later, just like we do away from here in our various lives. We've all had fights with people we love. **** happens, and most of the time it doesn't mean anything.
We all know who is liable to be more caustic in certain arguments. Some folks I won't engage even if I have a point to make on their post because I know it won't go anywhere. Some folks I won't engage because they always react in a certain way and it's not worth it. However, if I engage one of them, I should expect I know what I've gotten myself into.

I think in the tailgate especially we regulars kind of recognize that about one another.

I think by and large folks play fair, including a good number of our former regulars who have been dismissed. Occasionally someone may need a reprimand or a spanking, but we've thrown out a lot of the people who did more than post about their navel lint, or whatever.

I recognize there must be lines. But I also know that the line has a sliding scale. I know I've been afforded some leeway in some of the things I've said that others may not have. Seniority, I guess.

I don't have a problem calling someone an idiot. Let's face it, some of you are idiots. :)
I try to be creative when I call someone an idiot rather than just come right out and say so. (Master Jumbo of the backhanded insult, I bow at thy feet.)
Sometimes it's fun to bat around some clown who doesn't know up from down. (especially talking football!)

~Bang

Honestly Big Mike probably brought it on himself. He has gone toe to toe with a few of the newer mods here, not to mention the "old guard", and at times just acted like a pushy *******. He also made a habit of crying foul to the mods when someone called him out for acting like a douche.
I also don't think he is perma-banned. I thought I saw somewhere that he got 60 days.

As for the rest of your post. YES absolutely the Ban Hammer has been swinging like a prop on a helicopter lately.

Bang

June-24th-2009, 09:49 AM

I get you, and I hope he's not permanently banned. He's one of the ones I mean that "you know what you're getting into" when you square up with him. Overall I think Mike is a good guy, and the fact he just lost his job probably has a lot to do with why he's testy lately. (He made a post about it recently,, his company outsourced his job.) He's going through a rough patch, and I hope they bear that in mind.

~Bang

KDawg

June-24th-2009, 09:49 AM

Being 22 or 23 isn't a good excuse for posting absolute horsecrap. Just sayin'.

PleaseBlitz

June-24th-2009, 09:56 AM

Unfortunately, most of the entertaining threads could be labeled "attention whoring" threads.

Get rid of those and we are mostly left with politics. :(

Mark The Homer

June-24th-2009, 10:00 AM

Some will no doubt take this the wrong way, but an observation.. as we've banned regs and as the old guard has left, the median age of the membership has dropped to about 22-23 by the look of it. And the number of pointless posts has gone up.

~BangNot sure where you're drawing this from. I am not sure how we can measure the median age of the membership, but I think 22-23 is low. If it is dropping, maybe it's dropping because the older members have lost interest in the seemingly perennial mediocrity of the team, and the younger members have never known anything else?

Naturally the number of pointless posts has gone up because the number of posts has gone up.

Dictator

June-24th-2009, 10:02 AM

rdsknbill

June-24th-2009, 10:02 AM

Unfortunately, most of the entertaining threads could be labeled "attention whoring" threads.

Get rid of those and we are mostly left with politics. :(

Those threads turn into this

:box::box::pokeye::redpunch:

Bang

June-24th-2009, 10:02 AM

Now sure where you're drawing this from. I am not sure how we can measure the median age of the membership, but I think 22-23 is low. If it is dropping, maybe it's dropping because the older members have lost interest in the seemingly perennial mediocrity of the team, and the younger members have never known anything else?

Naturally the number of pointless posts has gone up because the number of posts has gone up.

I'm drawing it just out of my own observation. I may be wrong, there's a lot of folks on this site. Just in my own viewing.

~Bang

Mark The Homer

June-24th-2009, 10:05 AM

Sorry to see you go, Dictator.

renaissance

June-24th-2009, 10:07 AM

I'm drawing it just out of my own observation. I may be wrong, there's a lot of folks on this site. Just in my own viewing.

~Bang

Who is more likely to post often on an internet message board? A 30-40 something with a potentially more important job, family, etc, or a 20 something that's still in college, or in a crappy, just out of college job?

Buford

June-24th-2009, 10:08 AM

This is the last post I will make on ES.
In the interest of Full disclosure, I own two accounts here. Only 1 mod was smart enough to figure it out, and was kind enough to let me keep both Screennames.
Both will be locked. Don’t really care.
Some of you people take this site FAR too seriously (says the guy with two accounts).

Some of you have invaded this site like locusts, turning almost every thread into your own personal little chat rooms filled with inside jokes. You do know there are chat rooms now on ES don’t you? So why don’t you ****ing use them?

TK, if you want to look towards the root of where the attention whoring on this site came from, take a look at you and Who Del. Things were running well on this site until you and the other staff essentially endorsed his posting behavior.

Some of you are cool. Some of you add a lot to the topic at hand.
Most of you do not. Can’t say I ever did either.

Some of you are a few steps away from needing an ES intervention.

This site used to be a great source of football discussion as well as other random discussion. Those days are long gone.
Toodles.

My tribute to Dictator

I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see

Dust in the wind, All we are is dust in the wind

Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, all your money won't another minute buy

Dust in the wind, All we are is dust in the wind

buenosdiaz

June-24th-2009, 10:08 AM

The Evil Genius

June-24th-2009, 10:11 AM

This site used to be a great source of football discussion as well as other random discussion. Those days are long gone.

If anyone truly believes that - then by all means - leave. I doubt they will be missed.

People get banned here (temp or otherwise) because they cannot keep themselves from acting out. Do we really expect the mods to hold our hands like 5 year olds? Act like an adult, don't violate any of the major offenses and you will stay off their radar. It's pretty simple.

Heidenreich

June-24th-2009, 10:18 AM

I had slowed up on posting here a couple of months ago. I never fully went away, but severly cut back. When my office banned the internet (Bastards), i rediscovered this place.

I'm only allowed 30 minutes, taken in one block. Nowhere near enough time to get through all the internet surfing one needs. The great thing about this piace, I could poke my head in the tailgate, and know instantly if anything major happened in the world. This place because a one stop shop for me with everything that was going on. Eventually, the internet ban was lifted (****ty software FTW!) and now I'm back 100%, for hours a day.

That being said, I never expected this place to be a haven for riveting conversation. Sure, there are posters who I know have well thought out posts. There are threads you can tell how the conversation is going to go too. Sometimes, all I want is some stupid thread to keep me entertained.

I like Westy's threads. The rap battle one is a classic already. Is he an attention whore? Maybe? But with 10 minutes to kill, there's not a better thread to read.

BKSkinsFan

June-24th-2009, 10:19 AM

Rules are rules, and if they're broken, I completely understand the need to take action. I can also understand mods getting frustrated with having to deal with an over abundance of people breaking said rules.

However, when I read things like this, I can't help but feel like some on here put themselves and their opinions above others. An opinion is just that, there is no right or wrong, it's a feeling that you personally have on a subject. Whether you feel that your opinion is stated in a more logical manner than another's is open to debate, which is the whole point in a discussion forum.

When it comes to posts that deal with personal matters, or attention whoring as it has been labeled, if that's frowned up so greatly, then make it a rule to only discuss the topic of a thread. Otherwise, if there is no rule broken, continue to scroll.

McD5

June-24th-2009, 10:26 AM

Thanks for making this thread.

MissU28

June-24th-2009, 10:27 AM

Yikes. Is Dictator Fart?

rd421

June-24th-2009, 10:28 AM

I know I am still a n00b around here and most ppl prob don't notice my posts, but it is definately sad to see bigmike go...I know he ruffled a TON of feathers but he was entertaining. In any case I can agree with TK's post about attention whoring and all that.
In regards to this site going downhill and not having any info i call :bsflag:
This place has a ton of great info and even more GREAT POSTERS! It has beeter info than just about any major media outlet that you can find regarding our Skins, in fact just about everything worth talking about has been discussed here DAYS before espn or anyone else gets a whiff of it...

I love this place man, I hope to see it grow not die

Hail to ES

Hail to the Redskins!

Bang

June-24th-2009, 10:28 AM

Who is more likely to post often on an internet message board? A 30-40 something with a potentially more important job, family, etc, or a 20 something that's still in college, or in a crappy, just out of college job?

Both.
I'm not trying to be disparaging, just an observation. I've had plenty a good discussion and read many good things from the 20-somethings that inhabit this place. It looks to me over the last 3 years or so the demo shift on ES has gotten younger.

Unfortunately, most of the entertaining threads could be labeled "attention whoring" threads.

Get rid of those and we are mostly left with politics. :(

I also agree with this. Some of them are silly, but mostly it's just goofing around. Burgold has been known to post anything that pops into his head, but he's a writer/ journalist, that is what he does. I kind of like it. Sometimes it makes me laugh, sometimes it doesn't.
Threads about being wasted last night.. meh, not my cup of tea, so I don't open them.
I don't think we have a clutter problem in the Tailgate. If a thread sucks, it'll drop out of sight in due time.

~Bang

Bang

June-24th-2009, 10:32 AM

oops

Delete

jrockster21

June-24th-2009, 10:41 AM

In my opinion, there is room for joke threads that can become somewhat "chatty," but its when every single thread turns into the same few people having the same unrelated conversations no matter what the thread topic, it starts to get old. People bantering about "What to do in a Cleveland hotel room" do not fall into this category, PleaseBlitz, so I don't see those threads going anywhere. :2cents:

rdsknbill

June-24th-2009, 10:43 AM

Jrock. Great point. Hijacking is probably one of the biggest problems

MattFancy

June-24th-2009, 10:48 AM

I agree with rd421. I've been on here since 2005, but didn't really start posting more often until last year. But I've seen some great posts on here that are very insightful and have made me look at things differently and even lead to me finding new things.

There are a few posts every now and then that are pointless, but they can sometimes be entertaining. There are certain people on here you know not to take to seriously and there are some that just like to have a good debate.

But overall, I enjoy coming on here and seeing what people have to say.

lovetoaster

June-24th-2009, 10:53 AM

oops

Delete

Ban him! He made consecutive posts! :D

Just kidding of course.

But in all honesty, thanks TK for starting this thread. I certainly agree with your thoughts. I know I have been guilty of having consecutive posts on a few occasions, and I will try to stop doing that in the future. Even though I almost just did it in this thread. I just thought it would look weird for me to reply to the post below in this post. It would have been almost like I could see the future.

KDawg

June-24th-2009, 10:55 AM

Some of the "silly" threads are cool, to be honest. They mostly all have a point to them.

It's the senseless, "Look at me, I had my first beer ever!" threads that are ridiculous and done purely to get attention.

Sure, there's probably a reason that person needs attention, but it's really pointless to have those posts sitting around with 780 replies and then have the good threads get 4 replies. It happens too often around here.

Burgold's threads always have a point, no matter how goofy they are. I think those are fine. It's the other ones that bug the snot out of me.

lovetoaster

June-24th-2009, 11:02 AM

Some of the "silly" threads are cool, to be honest. They mostly all have a point to them.

Some are, I agree. But it almost seems like a competition sometimes. One person posts a silly thread that gets a good amount of traction, then five other people post silly threads, most of which just get ignored and clutter the board.

As people have said here a million times, not all thoughts should be threads.

IbleedBnG83

June-24th-2009, 11:04 AM

Much ado about nothing IMO. I LOVE the stadium during the season. Sure, there are threads that just make you go :wtf:. But hey, its an open discussion about the Redskins and you are going to attract all kinds. Aim, fire, and move on.

I agree with what someone else said about the most seemingly "attention whoring" threads bring up some of the best conversations. I think the "inside jokes" or one-on-one conversations about off topic or outside ES material is rude and needs to be kept to PMs, IMs, the Chatroom or picking up the phone to call someone.

The tailgate is what it is. A place for people to talk about whatever fancies their interest. Isn't it suppose to resemble a football tailgate or is the name misleading? Because it seems as though everything discussed in the tailgate, no matter how you view them, would be discussed at a regular tailgate. And like in real life, you can chose to ignore certain conversations.

I really enjoy coming onto ES. I try not to take others too seriously, aswell as not take myself so seriously. Although WE ALL take ES too seriously, at one point or another. I'm not sure what others are looking for in a forum for Redskins fans. But ES is exactly what I expected.

The overall vernacular, if you will, on ES is "do as I say, not as I do." We are all guilty about doing some of things we don't like about some of the other posters. Thats life.

I think everything is fine:)

KDawg

June-24th-2009, 11:04 AM

Some are, I agree. But it almost seems like a competition sometimes. One person posts a silly thread that gets a good amount of traction, then five other people post silly threads, most of which just get ignored and clutter the board.

As people have said here a million times, not all thoughts should be threads.

And that's where the rest of the post I made comes into play. Things get out of control with stupid threads.

Let Burgold or Bang or China or those guys make the silly threads. They tend to get a good reaction out of them. I'm not saying no one else should be allowed to do so, but within reason. Some of these people posting the threads are purely doing it for attention.

The Random Thought Thread allows ANYONE to be silly and post their thoughts. Keep those truly random, unnecessary thoughts there.

No_Pressure

June-24th-2009, 11:24 AM

I have a lot of posts but I doubt many people on here recognize me as a regular poster, recognize my name, viewpoints, likes or dislikes on anything. I know that I recognize those things about plenty of other posters here but I don't think it is the same for me. This is probably because I don't usually get into those deep and involving bitchfests that occur here often. When I do it's because I'm having a bad day and decide to let myself get pissed off on the internet (bad idea).

I am not as assuming as other people here. If I were to leave right now and never come back I doubt anybody would ever wonder where I've gone. If I were to tell everybody in a big post that I'm leaving because I have a problem with X,Y, and Z here, I doubt there would be very many watery eyes or people that would express sorrow that I'm not going to contribute to the forum anymore.

There are a few reasons for that but I think that one of them is the overall struggle of this forum and these mods. You can be 2 things as a forum community: small and personal, or large and impersonal. Apparently ES used to be small and personal. Thats why you have these old members with thousands of posts that people cry over if they leave, that people like me recognize, know their viewpoints, know their likes and dislikes, etc. I joined at the beginning of the large and impersonal era that is continuing now.

I'm just a face in the very large crowd, as are many of us here. There are guys where I venture back to the stadium with thousands upon thousands of posts and I've never seen them before, or they joined 3 months ago and have surpassed my total already. The real question in all of this is what do you, the poster want? You can't have both. You can't have the small and personal forum ES once was with 80,000 members or whatever the number is up to. I think that people need to ask themselves what exactly they are doing here.

I'm here to read about information reletive to the Redskins, to see an opposing point of view, to speak my mind to anyone who will listen, and to have fun when possible. I'm not looking for best friends or long relationships here. Some people are, and should probably recognize that though this may have been "their" place to have that from the start, it isn't a place where that kind of stuff is really possible anymore.

I don't know if anybody gives a crap about this rambling of mine but it doesn't really matter. One thing crosses my mind right now though...I am not a part of the inner-workings of the ES staff, I don't really even know how many mods there are right now, the only thing I can say is that in my opinion this place is horribly understaffed. I mean there are what...10 guys trying to control the idiocy of thousands and keep things nice on the playground? This isn't craigslist, it can't self-moderate, there need to be more mods really, and I know it's hard to find people you can trust to do the right thing, especially when its a difficult 24/7 job for no pay, but I've been a mod on smaller forums and it's not even easy keeping people happy or under control there, this place must be a nightmare.

In my personal opinion it's getting too big. But who am I? Nobody.

skinfan13

June-24th-2009, 11:57 AM

I took a pretty big hiatus for a while when I was in the middle of the ratline at VMI and have since not posted as much as I used to, but I continue to read many threads. I noticed a while ago that the tailgate seemed to have changed a little. I noticed that:

a) less original and older members were posting or were posting a lot less

b) quality of discussion and tone of discussion were slipping (still pretty good though overall)

c) personal and veiled attacks were on the rise. For example, recently I noticed that the Gays in the Military Thread had some pretty nasty stuff in it (not talking about Larry btw, I just mean in general, a lot of people were being downright rude, arrogant, and confrontational).

I'm glad that this has been brought to light, and maybe the Tailgate will get a little bit back over the next week or so.

GoSkins561

June-24th-2009, 12:01 PM

This is the last post I will make on ES.
In the interest of Full disclosure, I own two accounts here. Only 1 mod was smart enough to figure it out, and was kind enough to let me keep both Screennames.
Both will be locked. Don’t really care.
Some of you people take this site FAR too seriously (says the guy with two accounts).

Some of you have invaded this site like locusts, turning almost every thread into your own personal little chat rooms filled with inside jokes. You do know there are chat rooms now on ES don’t you? So why don’t you ****ing use them?

TK, if you want to look towards the root of where the attention whoring on this site came from, take a look at you and Who Del. Things were running well on this site until you and the other staff essentially endorsed his posting behavior.

Some of you are cool. Some of you add a lot to the topic at hand.
Most of you do not. Can’t say I ever did either.

Some of you are a few steps away from needing an ES intervention.

This site used to be a great source of football discussion as well as other random discussion. Those days are long gone.
Toodles.

Dude before you leave, what was your other screen name?

Mark The Homer

June-24th-2009, 12:02 PM

... One thing crosses my mind right now though...I am not a part of the inner-workings of the ES staff, I don't really even know how many mods there are right now, the only thing I can say is that in my opinion this place is horribly understaffed. I mean there are what...10 guys trying to control the idiocy of thousands and keep things nice on the playground? This isn't craigslist, it can't self-moderate, there need to be more mods really, and I know it's hard to find people you can trust to do the right thing, especially when its a difficult 24/7 job for no pay, but I've been a mod on smaller forums and it's not even easy keeping people happy or under control there, this place must be a nightmare.

In my personal opinion it's getting too big. But who am I? Nobody.As some of you know, I'm on staff here. I'm too new to make a judgement for times during the season, but as of right now, there are plenty of mods/staff in place. I say this because, over all, people are pretty much in line here. Staff can peruse post after post, thread after thread, and not find any problems at all. We can go an entire day without a reported post from anybody, and many times when we do get one, it's a merge request. It's not like this place is out of control. The site is very much in control, and most of the reason is because of all of you. Almost all of you are good people with good intentions, and these good intentions are contagious. It does have a snow ball effect. It's cool to be an upstanding member of extremeskins.com.

I think it's human nature to miss the good old days when the site was smaller and more intimate. But I certainly wouldn't blame that on staff. This site is the best football site in the NFL. I think we can agree on that.

So naturally, it's going to attract members. Why? Because this site is the best football site in the NFL.

And trust me, we're going to keep it that way. Thus, the creation of this thread.

There are plenty of good, smart, hard-working people here on staff. And I can tell you we, the staff, are doing our best.

The founders have built this site and made it what it is. The hardest work has been done. All we have to do is maintain what is here already, be open to new ideas and willing (and able) to implement the good ones, and not become too content.

And I guarantee you we will keep this site as the best NFL forum on the internet.

KDawg

June-24th-2009, 12:08 PM

I agree with Mark.

No more staff is necessary, the site pretty much runs itself.

And then on top of that you have the predicament of who to appoint to staff if you were to add more...

I think the staff/structure is fine.

SkinsHokieFan

June-24th-2009, 12:11 PM

Maybe its just me, but I was thinking the other day, the discourse and politeness is at a level I haven't seen since before Joe Gibbs came back. (which to me was the big turning point for ES as well, seeing the membership go from 3k in January 04 to about 22k by December 04) Both in the tailgate and stadium. Hell we even get along in the NCAA forum now

Maybe I just miss out on the "stupid" threads?

The Evil Genius

June-24th-2009, 12:14 PM

Hell we even get along in the NCAA forum now

Them's fightin' words.

Tech sucks!

;)

Seriously..what happened to the sticky threads?

skinfan13

June-24th-2009, 12:16 PM

Them's fightin' words.

Tech sucks!

;)

Seriously..what happened to the sticky threads? I was wondering the same thing, I was going to look in the show yourself thread the other day... and it was gone. poof, vanished.

maybe a stickied show yourself IV is in order?

No_Pressure

June-24th-2009, 12:17 PM

As some of you know, I'm on staff here. I'm too new to make a judgement for times during the season, but as of right now, there are plenty of mods/staff in place. I say this because, over all, people are pretty much in line here. Staff can peruse post after post, thread after thread, and not find any problems at all. We can go an entire day without a reported post from anybody, and many times when we do get one, it's a merge request. It's not like this place is out of control. The site is very much in control, and most of the reason is because of all of you. Almost all of you are good people with good intentions, and these good intentions are contagious. It does have a snow ball effect. It's cool to be an upstanding member of extremeskins.com.

I think it's human nature to miss the good old days when the site was smaller and more intimate. But I certainly wouldn't blame that on staff. This site is the best football site in the NFL. I think we can agree on that.

So naturally, it's going to attract members. Why? Because this site is the best football site in the NFL.

And trust me, we're going to keep it that way. Thus, the creation of this thread.

There are plenty of good, smart, hard-working people here on staff. And I can tell you we, the staff, are doing our best.

The founders have built this site and made it what it is. The hardest work has been done. All we have to do is maintain what is here already, be open to new ideas and willing (and able) to implement the good ones, and not become too content.

And I guarantee you we will keep this site as the best NFL forum on the internet.

As I said I'm not a part of the inner workings of ES at all so I'm really just talking out of nowhere, and the thing that I have in mind is just the complete swarm of idiotic threads and merges upon merges upon merges of idiotic threads, the sheer volume seems like it would be mind boggling from the outside looking in, especially during the season.

#98QBKiller

June-24th-2009, 12:17 PM

So naturally, it's going to attract members. Why? Because this site is the best football site in the NFL.

And I guarantee you we will keep this site as the best NFL forum on the internet.

Amen to these two points. This is literally the best NFL team forum/site in the league. I've ventured to other teams' boards only to find that the quality is shotty at best. Makes me especially appreciative of ES.

Mark The Homer

June-24th-2009, 12:20 PM

Seriously..what happened to the sticky threads?

I was wondering the same thing, I was going to look in the show yourself thread the other day... and it was gone. poof, vanished.

maybe a stickied show yourself IV is in order?They've been moved, at least temporarily, to the Feedback Forum:

http://extremeskins.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34

Amen to these two points. This is literally the best NFL team forum/site in the league. I've ventured to other teams' boards only to find that the quality is shotty at best. Makes me especially appreciative of ES.Thank-you, sir. :)

Burgold

June-24th-2009, 01:21 PM

In defense of silly threads... there is a time and a great use for goofiness or bizzare abstractions, or idle, but deliberate conjecture. I find that exploration of thought on a topic to be very interesting and often fun.

It also allows us to talk/discuss/debate/joke on something where we aren't hunkered behind our battlelines. the only think I would wish changed about the silly thread behavior is that when people enter those threads they play along and have fun. Make a joke about the joke or continue the joke. All the "this is stupid" stuff is a waste and it errodes the potential of the joke.

I think it's pretty clear what purpose most threads serve and most of them can be savored. The one's that you are allergic too you shouldn't sample and if you do by accident, you oughtn't be surprised that you got a bad reaction.

Anyway, silliness, goofiness, and humor threads need to make a comeback, but more importantly we need to start laughing with each other and a little less at each other.

Jumbo

June-24th-2009, 01:55 PM

Given time and "real" work demands, I'll use this free moment to just make some general remarks about this thread (I've read up to page 3 but have to leave soon for quite awhile). First, I for one understand the use of the terms in the title as they relate to commonly understand "personas" or “traits” of such internet sites that anyone can identify as germane to the OP‘s point.

They are certainly appropriate to use here, IMO, and TK emphasized several times that it’s the idea of "extreme" versions of such behavioral traits and it is directly applicable "only a few", yet acknowledges how such activity also encourages trends that can be problematic to the best forum I would think we all want to share.

Something like this thread can bring it all more into the open for a bit and also serve to fairly remind us all that this is a site that strives for quality of content as much as "individual fun" and "community connection", all within the long-established rules and guidelines which everyone willingly agrees to learn and follow when they register their account.

Let that last phrase sink in, if you will. This is relevant to any discussion that includes consequences people receive for making choices that (usually repeatedly) violate a rule, or more than one, or run counter badly enough to any traditional guideline of ES. That's a choice member's make all by themselves, plain and simple, and in the cases of many bans, usually a choice made repeatedly.

By the way, just as people have feelings and opinions on the cons of banning someone “prominent“, so too will there will no shortage of those on the pro side with opposite feelings. We also get many of each type regarding cases when we “fail” to ban someone who many feel “deserves it.” We know it’s almost always lose/lose on our side, and we will sometimes be accused of bias on every side of every hot-button issue, or matter regarding some “forum personality", often simultaneously. :D

On that note, which due respect and appreciation for SOME of the more questioning input, it can often be a far different perspective from the audience seats than behind the screen in the production room.

Certainly the audience role does not include any duties or responsibilities for managing the board in as balanced a way as possible, trying to address "quality control" and "behavior problems" (almost always as reported by YOUR fellow members) between extremes of the "sloppy/dumb-to-mean/abusive/nasty/bad" end of the continuum to the "boring/stuffy/uber-rigid" point at the other end of the line.

Moreover and VERY pertinent, if you're not on this side of the screen you really have no idea of what all might be involved in any mod interaction with the member. ;)

I don't make that point as some blanket "excuse-card" (such is un-needed) but as a literal fact that, it seems to me, often fails to get consideration when I read some comments, even from wonderful and intelligent community members.

Just ONE “for instance“, referring to repeated problems with a member: when someone in the military or civilian life commits offenses repeatedly and then adds various behavioral conflicts with whatever (or a number of) authority figure(s) they end up dealing with, in a constant rinse-repeat cycle, there usually is a more serious consequence eventually than that for the occasional--but--nice, or first time, or very cooperative non-repeating offender. Even if you personally like th guy--in fact, one could easily argue, to not hold that person to the same standards as any comparatively "dull", non-popular, non-hyper-active or interesting member is the worst kind of bias.

If you're opining on some member’s banned status, and you're seeing their presence from just a "what pleases you" (selfish-but-not-in-a-bad-way) POV or "what you like on the board" or even if you're trying to take a broad community view into account, you're still going to be operating on very limited information about the matter(s) versus an active moderator.

You’re also likely to be framing your view of “support” without much attending to the fact that there may be 5 times as many who “can’t stand the dude" and are "glad he’s gone" and "the only reason you mods took so long is cuz he’s your buddy.”

Either way, on this topic, I am respectful of all such feelings, whether the opinions are well-informed, or similar to mine, or not.

In the case of more than one example, when a fairly well-adjusted person (new mods experience this) actually sees some well-known "colorful" member's user notes and all the violations/arguments with many mods and all things said in those PM exchanges and asks "wow--how/why did he last this long?", the answer is usually because we try to be like some of you are calling for---putting with many such interactions and many unpaid time-soaking (often unpleasant) encounters trying to salvage the situation because said person (regardless of whether we personally care for anything about their persona or not) is "colorful" etc. and “interesting to the forum.“

That was a long sentence. :D

Sometimes I do think that I'd like to see many of you sit here and do this for years and be so patient and take some of silly repeated straining, or flat-out crap, or even worse, from people, including those who often only tell part of the story (typical human stuff) to others, or go back to behaving within rules & guidelines for awhile once posting back in the forum before their next "issue" requiring moderator time and effort that you, the viewer, happened to miss entirely. :)

People who make comments about "frequency of banning" are really (and I don't mean this in an insulting way, just literal) speaking in relative ignorance unless they are on this side of the data. For instance, we may have the occasional spike where one thread/topic gets a few folks netted, usually after warning. But there also may have been weeks where hardly anyone gets an action and that goes un-noted. People tend to see just what piques their predilections, or what draws your attention given where you're at on the board at the time.

You're (most of you) not in as many threads in as many forums every day as much as possible as most active mods to know what's going on as well, even when just speaking of one of our forums. You really don't have any solid idea of actual ban rates from week to week, month to month, or what may create peaks or valleys, do you? : ).

Not that it matters in the end, just pointing it out.

Most recently, here & now, after warnings, we had one guy go from one thread, a couple from the rap contest, a one or two random across the stadium/other forums. All those who received actions for very were very understanding and cooperative about them and pleaded mea culpa. With one notable exception--a dude who was given what is currently a lengthy temp ban entirely consistently with numerous interactions that member has had with virtually every staff member past and present. But we like him too in a number of ways and all thought he was "a good guy at heart.” Some of you have called us “biased” in his favor in the past. :doh:

So, no, banning is not “on some rampage” (a number of bloodthirsty members think it should be) even if a number of posters here occasionally rampage themselves. :silly:

There is little actual change, ever, with managing the forum via our rules and guidelines other than certain adjustments to the dynamics introduced by changes in membership size and trends. TK, PCS, and I have been around here for enough time to be as aware of other intelligent old-timers here of what ES is like/about, but we do have much more information and a different role, in addition to being a regular ES member.

I will say that most of you have no idea how hard we try to keep some of those who are now gone around and how much time we spent on it (for free) but in the end they are responsible for their own REPEATED choices of behavior even after they have been painstakingly point out where they run afoul of rules and guidelines numerous times.

In closing, consider this" for every person (usually very few) who "mourn" a figure, that same figure generated endless complaints by your fellow members, and we often deal with far more accusations of various kinds for not banning folks than we ever get for banning. Just fwiw. (And long as this is <yes, I know, there's a reason I'm like that here when I think it's appropriate> it's just the tip of the iceberg). :D

Be well, ES.

Jumbo

June-24th-2009, 02:02 PM

Yes, I have noticed this as well. Disturbing trend. Its one reason why I have not been on here as much as of late. Too much meaningless spam, vitriol, and these: :rolleyes: when somebody responds in earnest disagreement.

You're missed.

In defense of silly threads... there is a time and a great use for goofiness or bizzare abstractions, or idle, but deliberate conjecture. I find that exploration of thought on a topic to be very interesting and often fun.

It also allows us to talk/discuss/debate/joke on something where we aren't hunkered behind our battlelines. the only think I would wish changed about the silly thread behavior is that when people enter those threads they play along and have fun. Make a joke about the joke or continue the joke. All the "this is stupid" stuff is a waste and it errodes the potential of the joke.

I think it's pretty clear what purpose most threads serve and most of them can be savored. The one's that you are allergic too you shouldn't sample and if you do by accident, you oughtn't be surprised that you got a bad reaction.

Anyway, silliness, goofiness, and humor threads need to make a comeback, but more importantly we need to start laughing with each other and a little less at each other.

I would love everyone to understand one simple, obvious fact that seems to get mised at times.

ES will never lack for: silliness, goofiness, outrageous comments, nuts and whackjobs of all stripes, insightful intelltgent informed posters (granted, a minue minotriy :D) colorful characters and evrything else everyone is used to seeing in here every day. Such will ALWAYS be available here in ABUNDANCE every day. Get it?

We on staff will do our part, within the rules and guidelines, to try to keep this place from ever degenrating too far to where this becomse some much more typical lower-grade inteent habitat. We will do the best we can, unpaid flawed humans that we are, to perform our roles in this task. But is also and always a caring, connected, and thoughtful (in the "thinking" sense) membership, whether being goofy or brilliant, cranky or gentle, that will do a lot of the work.

MissU28

June-24th-2009, 02:03 PM

Can we just know- was Dictator Fart?

Hubbs

June-24th-2009, 02:04 PM

Two notes on the whole multi-quote thing:

First, I'm not sure it works with all browser settings, because I'll be damned if I haven't tried everything to use multi-quote and I still load a single quote.

Second, even with that problem, I generally will copy-paste multiple comments from a certain poster that I want to respond to in one post. However, when I'm responding to more than one person, I tend to make separate posts, as it annoys the bejeezus out of me when I have to sift through a long post with ten quotes to find the one response to my own post. I'm perfectly willing to bow to popular opinion on whether or not this is a good thing, but can we at least consider it?

IbleedBnG83

June-24th-2009, 02:06 PM

Not to sound like a kiss-ass or anything, but I have always thought that Jumbo has the most insightful and even-keeled posts of the other mods since I've been on ES. It has nothing to do with the other mods. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Jumbo

June-24th-2009, 02:09 PM

Jumbo

June-24th-2009, 02:10 PM

HOF44

June-24th-2009, 02:27 PM

****er can't type to save his ass.

But you get your point across and that's what really matters. Go away grammar and spelling police! :silly:

Mark The Homer

June-24th-2009, 02:30 PM

Two notes on the whole multi-quote thing:

First, I'm not sure it works with all browser settings, because I'll be damned if I haven't tried everything to use multi-quote and I still load a single quote.

...Click the middle red button at the bottom of a given post. Part of it will turn green. Move on to the next post repeat. Etc. Ready to post? Click the Post Reply button at the bottom of the page, on the left. All your multi-quotes will appear and you can then type what you want where you want.

Not to sound like a kiss-ass or anything, ....Sucking up again, are we? :silly:

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with TK at Sunshine :)

IbleedBnG83

June-24th-2009, 02:45 PM

Sucking up again, are we? :silly:

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with TK at Sunshine :)

You're my favorite Mod from MoCo...lol.

I have to try one of these burgers everyone keeps talking about...

HOF44

June-24th-2009, 02:50 PM

I have to try one of these burgers everyone keeps talking about...

You really do, in my opinion and many others, no better burger on the planet.

Sorry for the gratuitous Sunshine Hi-jack. :silly:

Burgold

June-24th-2009, 03:27 PM

I would love everyone to understand one simple, obvious fact that seems to get mised at times.

ES will never lack for: silliness, goofiness, outrageous comments, nuts and whackjobs of all stripes, insightful intelltgent informed posters (granted, a minue minotriy :D) colorful characters and evrything else everyone is used to seeing in here every day. Get it?

My comment twasn't really aimed at you or any of the mods. In fact, your tolerance is often shown and required with some of my sillier threads (I think I only have had one officially closed and it was very well deserved)

My thoughts were more aimed at the sourpusses and grumblosauri who seem to stomp over everyone's good times so frequently esp. in joke threads. If you (jumbo) are guilty of anything... it's on occassion of coming up with a better gag than me.

And that is truly unacceptable.

Although, while I agree that it is goofy and outrageous... I do think we've lost some of our collective silliness and playfulness.

rd421

June-24th-2009, 03:30 PM

Click the middle red button at the bottom of a given post. Part of it will turn green. Move on to the next post repeat. Etc. Ready to post? Click the Post Reply button at the bottom of the page, on the left. All your multi-quotes will appear and you can then type what you want where you want.

Sucking up again, are we? :silly:

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with TK at Sunshine :)

MTH
Thanks for the update I have been wondering how to do that....

China

June-24th-2009, 03:47 PM

On that note, which due respect and appreciation for SOME of the more questioning input, it can often be a far different perspective from the audience seats than behind the screen in the production room.

...

Moreover and VERY pertinent, if you're not on this side of the screen you really have no idea of what all might be involved in any mod interaction with the member. ;)

...

If you're opining on some member’s banned status, and you're seeing their presence from just a "what pleases you" (selfish-but-not-in-a-bad-way) POV or "what you like on the board" or even if you're trying to take a broad community view into account, you're still going to be operating on very limited information about the matter(s) versus an active moderator.

...

Sometimes I do think that I'd like to see many of you sit here and do this for years and be so patient and take some of silly repeated straining, or flat-out crap, or even worse, from people, including those who often only tell part of the story (typical human stuff) to others, or go back to behaving within rules & guidelines for awhile once posting back in the forum before their next "issue" requiring moderator time and effort that you, the viewer, happened to miss entirely. :)

People who make comments about "frequency of banning" are really (and I don't mean this in an insulting way, just literal) speaking in relative ignorance unless they are on this side of the data.

...

You're (most of you) not in as many threads in as many forums every day as much as possible as most active mods to know what's going on as well, even when just speaking of one of our forums. You really don't have any solid idea of actual ban rates from week to week, month to month, or what may create peaks or valleys, do you? : ).

...

TK, PCS, and I have been around here for enough time to be as aware of other intelligent old-timers here of what ES is like/about, but we do have much more information and a different role, in addition to being a regular ES member.

I will say that most of you have no idea how hard we try to keep some of those who are now gone around and how much time we spent on it (for free) but in the end they are responsible for their own REPEATED choices of behavior even after they have been painstakingly point out where they run afoul of rules and guidelines numerous times.

So, essentially you're saying, in the immortal words of Jim Mora: "You don't know. You think you know, but you just don't know. And you never ... will."

Got it. :)

GoSkins561

June-24th-2009, 03:57 PM

Can we just know- was Dictator Fart?

Fart was actually pretty cool, probably not Dictator. ;)

MissU28

June-24th-2009, 04:33 PM

Fart was actually pretty cool, probably not Dictator. ;)

Dictator wasn't Fart, he told me:( I'm disappointed.

Jumbo

June-24th-2009, 04:44 PM

So, essentially you're saying, in the immortal words of Jim Mora: "You don't know. You think you know, but you just don't know. And you never ... will."

Got it. :)

Awesome :hysterical:

Of course, in the context of that place and time, and the matter at hand, Jim was far more right than he was wrong. :D

mardi gras skin

June-24th-2009, 04:48 PM

This is a great message board. Every once in a while, I'll send a link about a discussion from this board to some friends that are fan of other teams. They can't believe the level of conversation this site generates on a wide range of topics. Clearly, we have a wealth of genuinely well informed, well spoken posters on almost every topic that comes up.

If I have to overlook someone having a bad day (or a bad life?) that's not too much to ask.

Kosher Ham

June-24th-2009, 05:01 PM

We are truly a family here.

We deal with our ups and downs, share our frustrations, stand by each others' side when we need to, and piss each other off because we don't always share the same opinions. I guess I have been around long enough and read enough, to decipher certain posters habits...most of the time I can ignore the stupid stuff...but every now in then I can't help but respond to something silly or even stupid (my response is probably stupid or silly too).

But at the end of the day to me this board is family, and it keeps me entertained and distracts me often times from the frustrations in "the real world".

The Mods do an outstanding job overall, the members are just like anyone else you meet in life; some things are really cool about them, and sometimes you step back and say WTF.

Some of us older members do get nostalgic and miss the old days where the community was closer knit and we all knew each others styles more. But when you really look at it, some of these newer posters have done a great job contributing to the board and I for one commend their efforts, which is just as vital to continuing to build and appreciate this great Redskins fanbase that we have.

~ KH

(a la Bang) lol.

EDIT: P.S. - I am going on a beer run, does anyone need anything ?

ixcuincle

June-24th-2009, 05:12 PM

Yes, this is a great local board for discussion of topics from the area and away from the area. Most of the other boards I go to aren't regional to the DC area, mainly national hockey sites and computer forums.

I've only been around here since 2007 or something but this is a pretty good place

Skin'Em84

June-24th-2009, 05:45 PM

GoSkins561

June-24th-2009, 06:19 PM

Dictator wasn't Fart, he told me:( I'm disappointed.

I always wanted to add a "s" to dictators name when I quoted him but I didn't want to get banned.

He will be back.

d0ublestr0ker0ll

June-24th-2009, 06:58 PM

A lot of people ignore the first rule in the Idiot's Guide to Forum Posting...

"Don't post if you're an idiot"

SC_RedskinsFan

June-24th-2009, 07:02 PM

When i was in the USMC some of you would have been sent to admin to go get a ID-10-T form. :D

SpringfieldSkins

June-24th-2009, 07:12 PM

I will be the first person to admit that I may be a part of the problem.

I don't normally call anybody out or try and demean anyone. I think I'm a generally good Tailgate poster. I think that this place is very friendly and I will often respond to somebodies post with a joke or off the cuff comment. I think it is usually taken well and we all have a good time with it. I'm not saying that I don't (try) to indulge myself with meaningful banter, but I'm usually in a light hearted mood when I'm here. ES takes a up a large part of my time in between work and sleep.

Like I said, I think my behavior is widely accepted by the ES public. There are others here who have the same sort of posting behavior. It so happens that most of us are under the age of 30. I recently have come to the realization that this kind of posting behavior probably annoys (for lack of a better word) others here in this forum. It seems that, more or less, our chumming around is a type of attention whoring (again, for lack of a better term).

Much like my distaste of the multi thread subjects, some posters probably don't care for my (and others) multitude of posts in a thread.

SnyderShrugged

June-24th-2009, 07:13 PM

I'm kind of on the same page as SHF. I have been seeing many positives here, especially since the election ended. Though, I rarely take part in many of the non-political threads (mainly because I feel like an old fart who doesnt understand all this new fangled Gen Y lingo!)

THis place is literally been a second family to me. Back when I learned of my Mom's illness I saw the true heart and soul of ES and I'll never forget that fact, ever.

Buford

June-24th-2009, 07:29 PM

I always wanted to add a "s" to dictators name when I quoted him but I didn't want to get banned.

He will be back.

No he won't. I was the Best Man for his wedding. He's gone like Sanford's career. 2 kids (one baby), full time job, and he's doing some Fight Club type of thing. He has no time for ES anymore. This has been a long time coming.

boofMcboof

June-24th-2009, 07:35 PM

With all respects to TK, limited ceiling intelligence isn't as much of a problem as the occasional intellectual arrogance displayed in the Taligate. :)

SkinnedAussie

June-24th-2009, 07:55 PM

When i was in the USMC some of you would have been sent to admin to go get a ID-10-T form. :D

There is also the ID-10-T error that comes up on a lot of computers!

I am one of the guilty ones who doesn't multi-quote, but in my defence, I was still on dial-up until recently. During that time, I had my forum settings to display 40 posts per page, and with multi page threads, I would open them in separate tabs. This allowed me to read one page whilst the next one was opening (slowly). Therefore, if I quoted a post on page two, my next quote may come from page three, so I've posted the first quote before even reading the second (I hope that's not as confusing as it sounds!).

This thread, for example, although containing 82 posts (before my reply), is only page three of the thread. I've quoted from page two, whilst page three has been opened in another tab. Post #82 is the second post on page three (with my settings).

I'm not a regular poster as I would be out of the loop when it comes to in-depth football (NFL) discussions. I have asked the occasional question (and thus, having to create a new thread), but I tend to read FIRST, then post later. I don't post for the sake of posting, only when I think I have something of value to add to the discussion. To confirm that, just check my info <----. I've been a member for just shy of 5 years, but have only 953 posts. I've seen members who have been here a month, and have cracked the 1,000 post barrier. How many of those were worthwhile?

Park City Skins

June-24th-2009, 09:00 PM

With all respects to TK, limited ceiling intelligence isn't as much of a problem as the occasional intellectual arrogance displayed in the Taligate. :)
It's not just limited to the Tailgate either. :)

I'll chime in a little later about things,(which should ensure nobody else reads it). In the mean time,my feelings about E.S. nearly 4 years ago,still stand today.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=1737111&postcount=39

chipwhich

June-25th-2009, 12:20 AM

This is what I have learned from myself since posting here.

I am argumentative....which is not intended.

Now I try to stand down when I realize it's like banging your head against the wall.

I could call out some threads but I wont.

What I have learned from posting here, is everyone has an opinion. Some are intelligent, some are uninformed, some are stupid, some have no value. All are teaching experiences to me and how peoples life experiences affect their beliefs.

My personal challenge is when someone posts things so misguided, how do I keep my mouth shut. :)

I try not to post on things I have zero understanding of.

SpringfieldSkins

June-25th-2009, 12:38 AM

One other thought I had while re-reading TK's OP.

In the Ask a Mechanic thread, I quote everyone's questions separately. I figure that it works best that way as far as the format of that thread goes. That way, if there are responses to my answers, the posters don't have to waste time deleting an answer that doesn't apply to them.

I know it's just one little thread and probably doesn't matter but I'd gladly change the way I respond in order to stick to forum guidelines. That's all.

Obibyn23

June-25th-2009, 01:35 AM

This isn't a butt kissing post...it's a post that supports structure...and that's it. Without it this board would be crap.

All the opinions in this thread are mute points, because the fact remains...when it all comes down to it..what the OP and others who run this board think is the only thing that matters.

Follow the rules people...it's that easy...if people have been banned it's because they didn't follow the rules. I don't think I have ever seen someone get banned for a reason that wasn't warranted. This isn't your personal Facebook/Twitter "current status" "What's on your mind" "I'm upset" "I just got home and I'm drunk" so let me start a thread about it update page...it's a message board...for discussions. Good ol fashioned DISCUSSIONS about what's going on in the world...the news...the latest album...latest show...latest war...etc...To me...THAT is what a tailgate is all about. NOT "Days of our lives let me put myself out there to look like a fool on the internets". No one likes a drama queen. Common sense and logic go a long way.

Also..for those that can't figure out the multi quote function...all you have to do is edit your post...click the quote button on the other post you want to quote...copy...and paste that mamma jamma into your edited post...Waalaaa...MAGIC

HAIL

Jumbo

June-25th-2009, 02:11 AM

Follow the rules people...it's that easy...if people have been banned it's because they didn't follow the rules.

Wow--so well done. Talk about "getting it."

Regarding this one key matter, it's really just that simple in the end.

PokerPacker

June-25th-2009, 02:35 AM

There is also the ID-10-T error that comes up on a lot of computers!

We call those BCM errors. as in the error exists Between the Chair and the Monitor.

EDIT:

Now on the topic of the double-posting, I think it should be important to note the wording of the rule:

#

# Double Posting. A double post constitutes back-to-back posts by the same member. The second post may be considered spam. If you submit a post and realize that you have made a mistake or would like to elaborate further, please use the "edit" button/function (located at the lower right of each post) to edit the original post rather than create a new one for that purpose. An exception to the rule applies to a situation where a member wants to address the content of separate individual posts from different members. For example, the first point addresses the content of member A's post; the subsequent post addresses the content of member B's post.

Now if you don't want people posting back-to-back for quoting separate people, I think it would be at least fair to change the rules to state that as opposed to explicitly giving them the go-ahead to do so.

SkinnedAussie

June-25th-2009, 03:04 AM

We call those BCM errors. as in the error exists Between the Chair and the Monitor.

Don't you mean the PEBKAC error? Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.

PokerPacker

June-25th-2009, 03:35 AM

Don't you mean the PEBKAC error? Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.

that's the one. I've been out of the 'biz' for a year and a half, now.

Mark The Homer

June-25th-2009, 06:19 AM

Now on the topic of the double-posting, I think it should be important to note the wording of the rule:

Now if you don't want people posting back-to-back for quoting separate people, I think it would be at least fair to change the rules to state that as opposed to explicitly giving them the go-ahead to do so.If we're gonna get really really technical...

I think the wording applies in certain situations. Say you're going through a thread. You mark several posts to be multi-quoted. You get to the last post visible on your screen at the bottom of a page. You begin responding to said multi-quotes in your usual thoughtful manner.

Meanwhile, unbeknownst to you, somebody else is typing out a post. He's even sending it. It's sent, but you don't see it because your screen isn't refreshed, and you're busy typing.

You finally post your post. You look at it. But you see a new post or maybe even two or three new posts above yours you hadn't seen before.

IMO, it's okay to quote it/them and reply to it/them - which would then leave two sequential posts from you. This would be within the wording of the rules.

...I'll chime in a little later about things,(which should ensure nobody else reads it). In the mean time,my feelings about E.S. nearly 4 years ago,still stand today.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=1737111&postcount=39A masterpiece Jay. And the points are still just as valid today as they were then. Thanks for sharing.

Mad Mike

June-25th-2009, 09:07 AM

Just a question here, not trying to knock the rules or the Mods.

Wouldnt it just be simpler to not allow the "you're an idiot" types of posts rather than allowing them and having all this contention, offense and confusion?

In a recent thread, it was suggested by one poster that it would be best for the earth if we cut down the rain forests. The idea is moronic. For the good of the human race, it should be exposed as such. Note that this is an attack on an idea not the person. Smart people can say stupid things.

This is far different than simply calling someone a moron in order to discredit them or avoid talking about the ideas and opinion that they present. It's not confusing at all.

And no, I'm not for political correctness taking away our ability to see and call the world as is is. Some ideas like the idiot conspiracy theories that pop up regularly here are so moronic and so damaging to rational discussion that the should be shot down with the greatest force possible. If an idea is stupid it's stupid and we should be allowed to say so. Just be prepared to back it up and explain why.

:2cents:

SnyderShrugged

June-25th-2009, 09:19 AM

In a recent thread, it was suggested by one poster that it would be best for the earth if we cut down the rain forests. The idea is moronic. For the good of the human race, it should be exposed as such. Note that this is an attack on an idea not the person. Smart people can say stupid things.

This is far different than simply calling someone a moron in order to discredit them or avoid talking about the ideas and opinion that they present. It's not confusing at all.

And no, I'm not for political correctness taking away our ability to see and call the world as is is. Some ideas like the idiot conspiracy theories that pop up regularly here are so moronic and so damaging to rational discussion that the should be shot down with the greatest force possible. If an idea is stupid it's stupid and we should be allowed to say so. Just be prepared to back it up and explain why.

:2cents:

I see your point, in fact, I was deeply instructed on it not too long ago! (Zoony is still cool in my book.:D)

However, by allowing the verbage specifically, it opens the door for either misuse or oversensitivity. Either can be damaging to the board as well as open the door for the Mods to receive compaint after complaint.

To me, the better way is to ban the statement, and force another approach. It's easily done and could ease the Mod burdon and the ban risk overall.

That said, I think most of us should be OK with a being called stupid at times. I know Ive deserved it and others have as well.

Mark The Homer

June-25th-2009, 10:03 AM

Okay, let's try to clarify this. The following is my own take from what I've seen over the years. This has never been discussed by staff while I've been here, and it's not in the rules, so let's try to tackle this.

I've seen this "idiot" thing mentioned by TK before. As TK says in the OP, calling somebody an "idiot" is allowed. TK has mentioned this a number of times over the years, and each time he's mentioned it, it's always the same word: idiot. It's not "stupid" or "moron" or "dumbass." It's "idiot."

The word "idiot" seems to have a special place here on ES. And, as I understand it, calling somebody an idiot, such as "You are an idiot" is the lone noun allowed to be used when calling somebody a name.

I think the purpose of allowing this is it might cause a poster to place more thought into his post before clicking the "post" button. And this makes ES a better place.

If you'd like to use other words to describe a member, you'd be best off using them in reference to a poster's idea.

Examples:

"That's a stupid idea." is allowed. "You are stupid." is not.

"That's a moronic thought." is allowed. "You are a moron." is not.

The word idiot, though, is special. :)

This is the way I understand it, and if I'm mistaken, the staff will correct me. And that would be fine.

Mad Mike

June-25th-2009, 10:07 AM

I see your point, in fact, I was deeply instructed on it not too long ago! (Zoony is still cool in my book.:D)

However, by allowing the verbage specifically, it opens the door for either misuse or oversensitivity. Either can be damaging to the board as well as open the door for the Mods to receive compaint after complaint.

To me, the better way is to ban the statement, and force another approach. It's easily done and could ease the Mod burdon and the ban risk overall.

That said, I think most of us should be OK with a being called stupid at times. I know Ive deserved it and others have as well.

Not a very libertarian approach IMO. :D

Seriously. What's needed is personal restraint. Mine first and foremost. We all need to temper our responses at times. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a cranky old bastard and I often need a reminder of that. But at the end of the day we should be able to discuss the world as it is, and some things are just moronic. If we cant say it, or even argue over what is stupid and why, we are headed straight for an idiocracy.

---------------------------------------------

On the bright side, I just want to take this moment to thank everyone on this site past and present who has challenged me and debated me. You've all made me smarter either by providing new information and viewpoints or forcing me to learn more to defend my own.

Monte51Coleman

June-25th-2009, 10:34 AM

I think the purpose of allowing this is it might cause a poster to place more thought into his post before clicking the "post" button. And this makes ES a better place.

Wouldn't not allowing that term also cause a poster to place more thought into his/her post and make ES a better place?

Mark The Homer

June-25th-2009, 11:16 AM

I don't follow you...

boofMcboof

June-25th-2009, 11:36 AM

Personally, I think the whole "idiot" thing is similar to the "Larry Bird Exception" in the NBA. Art being Larry Bird here. I mean who doesn't love Art's writing style as long as they're not on the receiving end? The idiot exception is given to other ES members so that they can't complain about Mods being able to circumvent the rules they've put forth.

Monte51Coleman

June-25th-2009, 11:55 AM

Wouldn't not allowing that term also cause a poster to place more thought into his/her post and make ES a better place?

I don't follow you...

That's okay, I didn't follow you either. :)

How can allowing someone to call another 'stupid' result in what you claim?

To me, that's just, well, stupid.

Park City Skins

June-25th-2009, 11:56 AM

Possibly Monte,but in my years here I have found that it can make some equally defensive,(admittedly,that's on the member in that case),which gets things nowhere fast. I look at it in a simple way. Just because we can insult,doesn't mean we should. IMHO,there are better ways of handling things. For the most part that is. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. You get to that point,and you've managed to drop down to the same level as the person you're calling a name. By and large,serves no useful purpose to me. Basically,that falls in line with that post I linked to earlier. With that in mind,when I moderate this place,I don't do so as someone who became a mod a little over a year and a half ago. I do so as a member who has been around since 2001,(registered. I,like others,lurked for nearly a year). Though I do allow for change these days.

Okay. In a nutshell. Tailgate is the Tailgate. And I'm going to go there just this once. If anyone knows,it's me. I may not post as much as I used to,but I assure you I do read stuff on here. It's suffered the same as The Stadium. Relatively the same stuff as in the past,just more of it,(though S.S. Extremeskins doesn't lean as far to the Starboard as she used to). Sheer volume can,and does,change the "tone" of the board's discussions. Part of the deal.

This obviously means we have quite a diverse set of personalities here on ES these days and though I still stand by what I stated in that post a few years ago,I allow for that fact. In other words,what Bang said earlier about getting what you get. I also agree about the sliding scale part.

Kdawg,2 things. 1. Exactly right about the Random Thoughts IMHO. Why I like it and continue to support it. Mostly by way of posting in it. A few years ago,it wouldn't have flown with me,but like it or not,the board has grown and as I stated earlier,we,(Mods especially)need to grow,(modify),with it in some ways. That's one of those ways. It serves a purpose and it has helped me learn more about some of the members here. That's a good thing I think. Especially for me as a "Mod.". We're here for you all,not the other way around and knowing members better may help in that.

2) Chalk Talk. This isn't new and likely isn't going to change. People like to debate,argue,*****,whine,ect.. Especially when it comes to Sports,politics,and religion. That's true in life as well as here on E.S.. Example. Reality shows probably draw in more ratings than the instructional type shows you can watch on The Discovery Channel,History,or others like it. They're still there. I have also found that it helps to look at views of a thread as opposed to replies to a thread. I've had many a person at an ES Tailgate tell me they like my pics,yet I've never seen them respond. My feeling? Big deal. I'm not in it,(those threads or what few others I start), for replies. I'm in it for "sharing" or getting the point across,(see my FAQ threads). Might not be a lot of replies,but I know folks are reading. :)

Thread Jacking. Okay. I admit it. I recently encouraged it amongst a few members. Why? Frankly I got tired of the constant thread jacking by members in both the Tailgate,(Bleachers back in the "old days),and the Stadium. The Stadium with seemingly endless number of threads being "Campbell Jacked" and the Tailgate with the seemingly endless number threads being "party jacked". As in political. So,I figured that maybe giving folks some of their own medicine would be a fun idea. Knowing it wouldn't help much. That clearly needs to be stopped now I think. One reason why I have tried to keep some statements out of specific threads. Thread jacking can be very disruptive to the board.

Chit chat in threads. Guess what? We all do it. Mods included,(we are afterall,members). To a small extent,it's okay. Maybe we're making an example for others to see,maybe we all as members,have friends here and a little back and forth is part of the deal. It's nothing new,we've been doing it here since the beginning. Like everything else here,it's effected by the sheer number of members of the board. However,it would be nice if some would take a lesson from those of us who have been around for awhile,and show some restraint. Pick and choose if you will.

All that said,I realize I'm most definitely not perfect,(even if I sometimes strive to be),and have and will make mistakes. Will have one of those days more than once as well. I have become the cranky old man,(at times),that I used to make fun of when I was in my 20's 323 years ago. :) I try to step back at those times. It's tough enough to mod the asylum at times without having that kind of thing come in to play. Oh,and if I were to ban everyone I don't get along with,(I don't believe nor expect to be liked by everyone. Don't care either),who annoy me,or generally are just a pain in the butt some times,there would most certainly be some emails to the Redskins that would not be favorable to me. For those,I step back and reach deep in to the patience and objectivity pockets. I will not allow myself,(or at least try my damnedest) to let annoyance or other personal feelings effect the way I moderate the board. Which I try to do,in as non intrusive way as I can. Cases in point. I have spent no small amount of time merging posts and editing thread titles and threads here in the Tailgate. Hoping that people will get the hint and and learn what we expect around here. In these cases,use of the multi-quote feature,(may not be a rule,yet,but we do expect a bit of common sense there. Think about it),and rule number 10. That's the one about news articles and such. Not tooting my own horn here,just hoping to give you all a bit of insight in to what goes in to some of the modding here and the thinking behind it.

Good grief. That was a lot of typing. And more than that,way too much time between smilies. :D :silly:

Monte51Coleman

June-25th-2009, 12:02 PM

Mark The Homer

June-25th-2009, 12:07 PM

That's okay, I didn't follow you either. :)

How can allowing someone to call another 'stupid' result in what you claim?

To me, that's just, well, stupid.First, we're using the word "idiot", not "stupid", although you could argue stupid is a synonym.

I think it might help somebody to put more thought into a post, rather than just blather whatever mindless crap might happen to pass into his/her/its brain. I think this because most people do not enjoy being called an idiot in front of the membership.

Again, this is just my take. I didn't make the rule exception and I may not understand it correctly.

Mark The Homer

June-25th-2009, 12:10 PM

Park City Skins

June-25th-2009, 12:13 PM

PCS- Mark seems (to me) to be saying that calling someone stupid (the unofficial insult of ES?) makes posters to think before they post and that makes ES a better place.

Did I read that wrong?
I think I was agreeing with somebody here. But by writing all that stuff above,I've lost myself,(which isn't tough to do even without my AHAD), and now may have to have more coffee in order to see if I can figure out what I and others said and then decide who to agree with,disagree with, yell at, or all of the above.

Monte51Coleman

June-25th-2009, 12:15 PM

First, were using the word "idiot", not "stupid", although you could argue stupid is a synonym.

I think it might help somebody to put more thought into a post, rather than just blather whatever mindless crap might happen to pass into his/her/its brain. I think this because most people do not enjoy being called an idiot in front of the membership.

Again, this is just my take. I didn't make the rule exception and I may not understand it correctly.

Sorry I mistaken substituted stupid, I'm such an idiot.

I guess that my first thought is that calling someone a name, any name, even the one maybe officially or unofficially considered acceptable, should be frowned upon.

I see no possible way that it improves discourse and that any justification that it indeed does is questionable at best.

PS- I do realize that you have not advocated such an unwritten policy and that you're simply passing on the info as you understand it. I'm not so much quoting you, Mark The Homer, but the gist of your post.

Monte51Coleman

June-25th-2009, 12:18 PM

PCS seems to be saying that there are usually better ways to address a situation than to insult. I agree. I'm sure everybody agrees.

That's what I thought he was saying, too. Isn't not having an acceptable insult term, ie- idiot, a better alternative?

Mark The Homer

June-25th-2009, 12:27 PM

Tell you what - I'm going to bow out of this conversation and let you all discuss this among yourselves. Or not.

Park City Skins

June-25th-2009, 12:37 PM

Ummmm. That's exactly what I was saying Gents. By and large, I see no need for it. Even if it is probably true in some cases. :)

Jumbo

June-25th-2009, 12:41 PM

My best advice form much experience in different roles here and a variety of staff/board evolutions is this: you use your best judgment, do what you think you have to do in a post, and so will we---all this other stuff is fine for making thread-conversation, including by we staff, but in the end matters will be decided by the mod and the context (a big word covering a lot of ground only the mod will know) in each separate matter. :)

It would probably be best not to carve anything you read in here into stone, other than referring to the actual words used in TK's post.

But, again, conversation and airing of opinions about such stuff is a good thing for the forum every now and then IMO and that's one of the main reasons a thread like this is posted from time to time.

Rule 18 is written in way that really covers most of this, and the actual "worries" most posters should have is nil. Despite all the sturm und drang very few people have to deal with "mod trouble" as an issue to any real degree.

And even then, such is usually easily resolved at any point during the interaction by the member choosing to practice rule 18 instead of freaking out over imaginary nonsense like personal bias of staff regarding a particular stance on a particular matter being involved. :D

Monte51Coleman

June-25th-2009, 12:42 PM

Ummmm. That's exactly what I was saying Gents. By and large, I see no need for it. Even if it is probably true in some cases. :)

Whew. For a second there I thought that I'd been transported to an alternate reality. :)

Park City Skins

June-25th-2009, 12:47 PM

Whew. For a second there I thought that I'd been transported to an alternate reality. :)
No worries. I have been accused of constantly being in my own reality. Just call me Calvin. :silly:

KDawg

June-25th-2009, 01:46 PM

I guess I'd be willing to continue chalk talk threads...

I've gotten a few PMs and a few requests here to do so...

I just hate doing all that work and having it fall off of page one within minutes. Oh well. Again, I could care less about the attention, so if it falls it falls...

If anyone has any chalk talk thread ideas or requests, PM me.

China

June-25th-2009, 01:52 PM

you use your best judgment

You sound like the parents in Risky Business (http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi371392537/).
Well, sometimes you gotta say "What the ****!" :)

(a big word covering a lot of ground only the mod will know)

Thanks, Jim. ;)

Jumbo

June-25th-2009, 01:56 PM

Well, sometimes you gotta say "What the ****!" :)

Thanks, Jim. ;)

A. Well, one of the things I do is teach parenting classes at times, and modding this forum is "Risky Business" :silly: so that makes sense.

B. That parenthesized phrase was just for you, so I'm glad you picked it up :cool2:

June-25th-2009, 01:58 PM

Intellectually Diverse Individual Opining Truculently.

Not all of us can be an IDIOT.:silly:

Tennessee Ed

June-25th-2009, 02:04 PM

KDawg, I loved the "Chalk Talk" threads. I read every one of them. I never posted a "well done" or "thank you" because it seemed kind of spammy. If you do another one, I promise to give it a five star bump.

I still favor earning thread starting privileges.:whoknows:

P.S. I usually learn something when I read one of these threads.

Jumbo

June-25th-2009, 03:24 PM

Ed, everytime I see your name I hear Tennessee Ernie Ford in my head. Yup, my pop-culture span goes back that far.

bubba9497

June-25th-2009, 04:20 PM

Ed, everytime I see your name I hear Tennessee Ernie Ford in my head. Yup, my pop-culture span goes back that far.

you load 16 tons
what do you get....
another day older and deeper in debt

DarrellsMyHero28

June-25th-2009, 05:34 PM

Its sad really.

I've seen so many posts from Mods that essentially could be summed up with "Everything was fine until some idiot decided to screw it up and now we have to ____"

This place is special, the staff is incredible and the regulars are great...its always sad when we have to sit down and be super serious because people are being dumb.

I guess that's just how it goes when you have a free message board that attracts so very many people with (clearly) different backgrounds, opinions etc.

I like ES, and I hate to think that my generation of posters (both in age and in relative 'newness' to the board) is bringing down the quality :(

Jumbo

June-25th-2009, 05:45 PM

Darrell, I like your post, and these threads serve a variety of functions IMV. I have seen everyone from new to old members, to past or present mods, really get invested :D in such discussions whenever such threads are posted during my time on ES, and then there are many others just joke around about it and it's all good. To me, just the value of catharsis, stirring thought, getting information and views from staff & membership "out in print" in one place, and are kind of unique to these threads (logically enough).

While each OP and each staff member that has ever generated one had certain main purpose and function intended, all these other things happen too, and are all for the betterment of ES in the end. I never view these threads in a poor light. No matter what someone's actual opinion is on any specific forum dynamic, these are helpful, usually somewhat enlightening, and inevitably productive conversations IME.

DarrellsMyHero28

June-25th-2009, 05:56 PM

True, but a thread like this is a sign that there are things that you and the rest of the staff have some sort of issue with something going on and it needs to be addressed and while it can be an overall positive discussion, it is too bad that we even have to have one...even if its inevitable considering that this is, in fact an open message board on the infamous interwebz.

So, I guess I'm just being somewhat pessimistic and its not like life here on ES will have to change much as long as the masses remember that there is in fact a banhammer and you all will use it when its needed.

I thought the rap battles were an awesome idea, but then it quickly became one of those situations where I could just see you guys sitting at your computer smacking your foreheads and going "Why the heck can't people remember that we DO have rules?" because we're not always the brightest.

Anyways, it is nice to know that you guys are here keeping this place what it is, an awesome site. I consider myself a pretty normal person and never thought of message boards as "normal" (in fact, I still think of it as a little weird that I spend so very much of my time posting on a site full of people I've never actually seen) but I guess its just because ES is so very special.

I guess that really what sums it up, we're just special :)

Who Del

June-25th-2009, 06:34 PM

Duly noted.

Thank you and God Bless.

motorhead

June-25th-2009, 07:07 PM

Duly noted.

Thank you and God Bless.

I think it's simple.

Just please watch what you say and call me what ever you want too!:)

Accept a cowpukes fan or late for Supper.:D

As some OP's would say. :) ES is a family thing you know!

Please keep it clean.Thanks OP.

I'll leave you with a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-6xV0uAVpk

HTTR

HighOnHendrix

June-26th-2009, 06:13 AM

While each OP and each staff member that has ever generated one had certain main purpose and function intended, all these other things happen too, and are all for the betterment of ES in the end. I never view these threads in a poor light. No matter what someone's actual opinion is on any specific forum dynamic, these are helpful, usually somewhat enlightening, and inevitably productive conversations IME.

Well said, J. Same thing happens in other threads sometimes, too. Let's also all recognize that even if the amount of certain misbehaviors has increased of late that the vast majority of the posters, and especially most of the regulars, is civil and by-the-book. I'm looking at this thread as a positive in that ES is so good compared to everything else out there right now that we are all getting together to (IMO) nit-pick. I've seen way worse in the past on boards that were not moderated/over-modded/under-modded or just drew in the worst elements. Just saying, we've got it good.

rdsknbill

June-26th-2009, 07:52 AM

This must be one IMPORTANT thread. Jumbo has posted here more than twice :D

Love ya BRO!!!!!!!!

Lombardi's_kid_brother

June-26th-2009, 08:45 AM

ixcuincle

June-26th-2009, 08:58 AM

I would never call another forum poster an idiot. However I have no reservations about calling other athletes idiots or clowns. I hope there's no problem with that, because I have a lot of vitrol directed for athletes who do dumb things, don't live up to the hype, or fail to deliver in clutch moments.

SnyderShrugged

June-26th-2009, 09:17 AM

Few points.

5. On Edit: I say we make a gentleman's agreement to eliminate the word "Idiot" and go exclusively with "Douchebag." (That's going to get me 127, isn't it?)

Douschebag gets my vote!

Could we substitute "Massengill", "Summer's Eve" or just plain old Vinegar, once in awhile for fun though?

:D

Thinking Skins

June-26th-2009, 09:55 AM

OK, I've tried posting to this thread twice and both times it didn't show up (lost in the interwebs!). Here goes try number 3.

I think the thing about it is that respect is a pretty subjective term. I mean, there is certain behavior that we can all agree upon as respectful. But other stuff that some see as disrespectful, while other see it as just fine. I think, as a lay person who doesn't know the behind the scenes stuff, some of the comments from some of the posters mentioned in this thread are comments that wouldn't offend me at all. I might call them on it and if they caused a problem, I'd probably just talk to somebody else. But the thing is that we've got different ways we handle things. Maybe some people are more likely to report abusive behavior or attention whores than others. Maybe some people really are offended by certain behavior, and maybe some of this behavior is actually offensive.

Sometimes I'll be reading a thread in Tailgate and I'll think to myself, "either they have an inside conversation going on, or that could be real insulting". But I don't know how many people here have actually met in real life. This can probably change how you all interact on here. But to a lay person who sees this interaction, it could somewhat warp what they think is 'accepted' here.

I remember back in one thread, there was an "inside" conversation about TK getting married to somebody else (was that with MissU28?). I had no idea what that was about, whether it was real or not. I didn't read the whole thread and so I wasn't sure if it arose out of a joke or whether there was any truth to it. But I do kinda wonder if others who saw this conversation thought, "haha, now I'm gonna ask Blondie to marry me." I mean, they may think thats normal behavior and standard operating procedures.

Don't feel like I'm focusing on that one conversation though. It also goes into the light of the "attention whores". I mean, some people make some good joke/rant threads. But these same people also make some bad threads along this same line. And I feel its like, the line is blurred to the point of "funny = good" and "not funny = bad", even with "offensive" depending on who you're offending, I think that leads to more people willing to test the limits and the patience of the mods here on Extremeskins.

MissU28

June-26th-2009, 11:22 AM

(was that with MissU28?).

skinsgirl26

Oh, and that stuff stemmed from April Fools Day

Reaganaut

June-26th-2009, 03:11 PM

If you'd like to use other words to describe a member, you'd be best off using them in reference to a poster's idea.

Examples:

"That's a stupid idea." is allowed. "You are stupid." is not.

"That's a moronic thought." is allowed. "You are a moron." is not.

I have never turned anyone into a moderator on this board for a personal insult. I usually take matters into my own hands and edit the OP if it was mine and warn people that they had better bring intelligence and leave personal insults aside.

I guess this is why moderators usually let anyone who calls ME an idiot or a moron skate without even a warning. People get worked up in the heat of a discussion and the one who gets personal loses the argument then and there. So, it's part of the medium for me. I expect insults against me and deal with them myself.

But, I will point out a double standard wheras I JUST got off a two week ban for some spectacularly artful insults hurled at a nemisis of mine. I am a Jedi at this and he went at me first. I knew that if the rules were applied without regard to my long-term board status that I would get banned... and I did. (I'm not saying the person who reported me is a crybaby or anything... well.. ok maybe he is...)

Point being, that I've sat back on a single thread and counted more than a dozen personal insults with full curse words hurled at me and zippy interference from moderators. No bans, nothing. I call attention to it in the thead itself and then I just let it go which I think is a lot better than running to mods with kleenex box in hand.

Bang and I couldn't be more different on our viewpoints, but he makes some good points. There are guys who you just don't mess with on ES like Art. The first week I joined the board, I poked that tiger and a crowd gathered to witness me getting taken down like a caribou.

I didn't cry foul at all. I backed off and he let me live another day. I messed with Art and got my butt handed to me. No moderator had to help me. Imagine if he got kicked off the board for that way back when... Imagine ES without Art!

Truth is: I almost didn't come back to ES because of what I perceive to be a little bit of a double standard. I don't cry about personal insults and as a result nobody gets banned or warned. I insult somebody in an artful manner, the guy breaks into tears and zap I'm banned.

Even Bang slipped in his own personal insult about me on one political thread. If I was a big baby I could have reported him and probably gotten him a week. Not only did I NOT report this to moderators, but I don't recall mentioning to him that I have contributed an insignificant amount of money to his cartoon site. I realized his banter is part of his personality. To report him would be a complete joke...

I challenge any moderator to report ONE formal complaint I have EVER lodged in nine years.

So, moderators have to make judgement calls and hit people with bans when people lodge complaints. I agree that the only workable policy is just to hit everyone with the same punishments.

Unfortunately, we lose some of the most interesting people on the board that way. It's like having Ray Lewis ejected from the game because some special teams punk spit in his face and he mashed the guy. Both guys get nailed... and you enforced the policy correctly... but you've lost Ray Lewis now.

I'm sure I wouldn't have been missed, but I almost didn't come back out of disgust at all the people who have KILLED me on theads walking away for much worse behavior.

I have zero ES bookmarks on all browsers and systems I have anymore. I typed in the URL today by hand. I've only posted once since the ban and this reply to the thread. I'm sure that I'll wade back in slowly at some point.

BUT, my posts are going to be generic and much less interesting. People will throw insults... hate on my screen name... whatever and I WONT turn them in as usual. I'm a repeat offender now, so what chances am I going to take anymore?

"I'm not a Rat agent Kujan." - Verbal Kint.

Monte51Coleman

June-26th-2009, 03:45 PM

But, I will point out a double standard wheras I JUST got off a two week ban for some spectacularly artful insults hurled at a nemisis of mine.

I just read the post that got you tossed. Could you point me to the "spectacularly artful" insults? :)

Mark The Homer

June-26th-2009, 03:49 PM

...There are guys who you just don't mess with on ES like Art. The first week I joined the board, I poked that tiger and a crowd gathered to witness me getting taken down like a caribou. I lol'd. That was good...

So, moderators have to make judgement calls and hit people with bans when people lodge complaints... I know when I've been attacked (not lately), I didn't report it and neither did anybody else. And this went on and on for months. I didn't fight back, wanting to stay within the rules and relying on the all-seeing moderators to handle it. I felt it was un-manly to go crying to the mods, so instead I took the abuse for quite a long time.

Unbeknownst to me, the mods weren't even reading the threads I was in (apparently they're boring), which is why it was allowed to go on so long.

In the end, two members were perma-banned.

Another time I was in the random thoughts thread and a member posted how he hated a particular off the beaten path forum. I took that as a hint, checked, and sure enough, there was abuse against that member in that forum. The member didn't want to report it officially, but he was hoping somebody would see it and do something about it. And an abusive member was given some time off.

Point: Suck it up and report abuse anyway. And report abuse of others. Believe it or not, the mods don't see everything. Reporting takes a few seconds and checking reports takes a few seconds. If it needs handling, it will be handled. If it doesn't it won't. :)

deejaydana

June-26th-2009, 03:56 PM

I would like to take this opportunity to mention that while I have, occasionally, wandered into the dreaded 'attention whore' domain, (and been banned accordingly) I respectfully feel that there truly is no ceiling to my intelligence. Or wait, was it my ego? Maybe it's both :silly:

MLSKINS

June-26th-2009, 04:07 PM

the line is blurred to the point of "funny = good" and "not funny = bad"
I used to be like that. Now I am to the point now where I just say what I gotta say and try to remain respectful to my fellow posters. I must be doing a good job because I haven't been banned and I plan not to.

hokie4redskins

June-26th-2009, 04:24 PM

I know when I've been attacked (not lately), I didn't report it and neither did anybody else. And this went on and on for months. I didn't fight back, wanting to stay within the rules and relying on the all-seeing moderators to handle it. I felt it was un-manly to go crying to the mods, so instead I took the abuse for quite a long time.

Out of curiosity, who on Earth was attacking you? You're the ultimate diplomat and all-around nice guy on these boards.

Mark The Homer

June-26th-2009, 04:46 PM

Out of curiosity, who on Earth was attacking you? You're the ultimate diplomat and all-around nice guy on these boards.Goddamn right. And don't you ****ing forget it either, or your ass will be wingin' it right out the door! :silly:

Ahh, it's a long story. With a happy ending. The good guys won. :)

Jumbo

June-26th-2009, 04:48 PM

I think the vast majority of the membership is intelligent and rational enough (even if it takes a little concentration) to consider that when reading anyone's "story" it is of course just the teller's perspective and information that steers their report.

Some folks may lack much ability or the habit of pulling back from their personal restricted airspace to objectively detach and consider that maybe their "view", or the information they're applying, is inherently partial or limited.

Given how we all know various individual members can have such "colorful" and "unique" perspectives or viewpoints on any number of topics, so too will such be the case as they report their perceived experiences on some board matter, or board patterns, etc.

I regularly find myself reading some such posts, knowing the situation or situations/patterns being described, and feel like I'm reading something written by an alien from another civilization or someone who did way more mushrooms then I did during the 70's. :silly:

IOW, we have a wide range of posters with a wide range of perceptual lenses and cognitive functioning, and that will show in threads like this, too, of course. :D

I can barely dress myself. :silly:

HighOnHendrix

June-26th-2009, 06:28 PM

I think the vast majority of the membership is intelligent and rational enough (even if it takes a little concentration)...

Try squinting. Helps me sometimes.

zoony

June-26th-2009, 09:02 PM

Heres an excerpt from an email I recently sent to the staff about the Tailgate Spectrum, both ends of which we've seen in the Tailgate at times and both ends of which, imo, we as a staff should take steps to make certain never dominate the ES landscape:

On one end, it's the utopia where everyone sips tea and eats scones while they discuss the merits of transcendental meditation, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and tells the occasional amusing anecdote over a glass of brandy. Members are awarded bonus points for sounding as pretentious as possible.

On the other end, it's 13 year olds hopped up on ritalin staying up late at summer camp, making doody jokes and asking each other what sex feels like.

Me, I hope we can keep it (tailgate discussion) somewhere in the middle.

I've been too busy to post lately, and it looks like there's not a whole lot left to be said. I do want to make something clear, however.

The OP was posted in the interest of keeping ES a quality site. Nothing more.

And as far as the "idiot rule", ES should always be a place where heated, passionate, and frank discussion can take place. And if that means calling someone an idiot, I'm more than okay with that. As a bonus, its helped to cull the herd of idiots ( :) ) over the years who just can't make the distinction between context and simple name calling/insults. So I like it for that reason too :)

zoony

June-26th-2009, 09:11 PM

Oh, and LKB is exactly right. Be interesting. Please, above all else. Have something interesting to say.

Just don't threaten suicide. The Redskins frown on such things.

.....

June-26th-2009, 09:27 PM

Few points.

1. Successful message boards need personalities on them. The most important thing you can be on a message board is interesting. I like kooky posters who at least come up with unique things to write. These boards should be entertaining. As long as you aren't attacking other posters or completely hijacking discussions, I think you should be here - provided you are interesting. I would rather have one Westy than an 1000 guys saying that "Campbell rocks" or "Campbell sucks."
And that right there is why I loved having MSF around. He was a personality that always got folks talking. And if you 'got' MSF, it was really quite entertaining.

Sarge & Chom, as mentioned earlier, kept it interesting even though after about 10 pages it just ran out of steam & went round & round in a circle.

. Having said that, people need to self edit more. I've been suspended 126 times. But I'm fairly certain that each post that caused me to get suspended was at the very least "different." And I think I was only deeply offensive once - though in that instance the person I offended was Society at Large not anyone else. I post a lot, but usually it's only on subjects on which I have legitimate, fairly well-thought opinions.
Not quite 126, but self editing is an excellent point. And you do have fairly well-thought opinions. Most of the time.:)

. The board is not psycho-therapy. If you are coming here seeking guidance or vindication, you probably should look elsewhere.
Ding!

. Be interesting. Don't be uninteresting.
Ding! Again.

. On Edit: I say we make a gentleman's agreement to eliminate the word "Idiot" and go exclusively with "Douchebag." (That's going to get me 127, isn't it?)
No. it's not going to get you 127 because you made several excellent points in this post. Thank you. :)

Major Harris

June-26th-2009, 10:06 PM

And that right there is why I loved having MSF around. He was a personality that always got folks talking. And if you 'got' MSF, it was really quite entertaining.
how do you type that, then follow up here:???

Originally Posted by Lombardi's_kid_brother http://extremeskins.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=6515594#post6515594)
. The board is not psycho-therapy. If you are coming here seeking guidance or vindication, you probably should look elsewhere.

with:

Ding!

June-26th-2009, 10:15 PM

how do you type that, then follow up here:???

Originally Posted by Lombardi's_kid_brother http://extremeskins.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=6515594#post6515594)
. The board is not psycho-therapy. If you are coming here seeking guidance or vindication, you probably should look elsewhere.

with:

Because I 'got' Mass while 97% of the masses here didn't.

Mark The Homer

June-26th-2009, 10:22 PM

I guess I was one of the three percent...

Dan T.

June-26th-2009, 10:32 PM

Some people really thought MSF was a made-up caricature, but really there was NO way someone could create that out of whole cloth.

Jumbo

June-26th-2009, 10:35 PM

I guess I was one of the three percent...

Mass was fun enough, I kinda liked him, and he was often over-the top too IMV...and I banned him accordingly a few times but he always understood why and never denied the legitamacy of a staff action, or whined in the fourm, or made lame excuses, or accused me of any "bias", or outright lied, or simply and repeatedly spazzed out like a oppostional child like a few other banned "ES regulars" have previously. :)

SpringfieldSkins

June-26th-2009, 10:36 PM

I got off on MSF's wrong foot. I can say, through a few PM's, we were able to see through my initial overreaction of him.

Before he was finally terminated from this board, I had taken an interest (and concern) in him. I still wonder how he is doing. He was quite the character.

Jumbo

June-26th-2009, 10:39 PM

Of course, I should note we are digressing and headed into an "ES personality commentary" hijack which often doesn't go too well...so I'm going to desist at this point and encourage others to do the same fwiw :)

SpringfieldSkins

June-26th-2009, 10:44 PM

June-26th-2009, 10:47 PM

Mass was fun enough, I kinda liked him, and he was often over-the top too IMV...and I banned him accordingly a few times but he always understood why and never denied the legitamacy of a staff action, or whined in the fourm, or made lame excuses, or accused me of any "bias", or outright lied, or simply and repeatedly spazzed out like a oppostional child like a few other banned "ES regulars" have previously. :)
From this side of the screen, when you have someone like that, I tend to find my respect for them to go up. A lot. There's a lesson to learn in there for some. Hopefully they take notice. And no, I'm not referring about how to earn my respect.

Reaganaut

June-27th-2009, 12:16 AM

I just read the post that got you tossed. Could you point me to the "spectacularly artful" insults? :)

Since you're so interested, why don't you go back and look at threads where people are cussing at me and do a tally of people who called me a (insert insult) and walked away. :D Like me or not, the fact remains. I didn't rat them out and there were mods on the thread who were posting... so draw your own conclusions. I am a big boy and I don't want mommy coming to my rescue. Maybe that's why mods don't react knowing that it would deny me my own justice. Gotta protect the weaker cubs and leave people like me to fend for myself. You gotta make it a good zinger though if you are chancing the ban. To hear that it wasn't artful just kills me... Not artful... I'm dying over here.

Major Harris

June-27th-2009, 12:17 AM

n/m............

June-27th-2009, 12:19 AM

i guess if that makes up for all of his antics, some of which are embedded in the title of this thread, i don't get it.

i "got" mass. he was an attention whore who used es for therapy.
Sorry Maj, but if that's what you got from Mass, you really didn't get him at all. But like I said, very few did.

Major Harris

June-27th-2009, 12:24 AM

Sorry Maj, but if that's what you got from Mass, you really didn't get him at all. But like I said, very few did.

to each his own, i guess. :cheers:

there is a reason though that almost every person you can list that uses es as a microphone for their life ends up either perma-banned, temp-banned multiple times, or just leaves and never comes back.

Reaganaut

June-27th-2009, 12:45 AM

Point: Suck it up and report abuse anyway. And report abuse of others. Believe it or not, the mods don't see everything. Reporting takes a few seconds and checking reports takes a few seconds. If it needs handling, it will be handled. If it doesn't it won't. :)

Mark, get your point here, but the attacks I draw are nasty because I go so far over the top that I'd rather take the abuse rather than the embarassment of having a mod step in.

In college I once tried to start a "Heterosexual Student Association" to get university admin money for keg parties which the gay groups were getting for their "socials." I had the whole thing approved and we were ready to party, but one day I got an anonymous call from a voice telling me that I might find an AIDS diseased syringe sticking in my foot on the way to class, so I dropped it. The guy sounded serious (and he wasn't lisping...)

I will never report anyone ever. It's not in my make up. I'd rather settle things on the thread rather than face the humiliation of having a mod jump in. :doh:

MissU28

June-27th-2009, 12:51 AM

Mark, get your point here, but the attacks I draw are nasty because I go over the top that I'd rather take the abuse rather than the embarassment. In college I tried to start a "Heterosexual Student Association" to get university admin money for keg parties which the gay groups were getting for their "socials." I had the whole thing approved and we were ready to party, but one day I got an anonymous call from a voice telling me that I might find an AIDS diseased syringe sticking in my foot on the way to class, so I dropped it. The guy sounded serious (he wasn't lisping...)

I will never report anyone ever. It's not in my make up. I'd rather settle things on the thread rather than face the humiliation of having a mod jump in. :doh:

I'm totally the opposite- in real life, I'm all about snitching. But on here....eh, I don't take it seriously enough to feel the need to "tattle" on other members. I think I reported someone once, but it was for something really blatant.

Edit: P.S. I was a big fan of MSF. I remember being on his "ignore" list, though. But I still enjoyed him immensely.

Reaganaut

June-27th-2009, 01:00 AM

But these same people also make some bad threads along this same line. And I feel its like, the line is blurred to the point of "funny = good" and "not funny = bad", even with "offensive" depending on who you're offending, I think that leads to more people willing to test the limits and the patience of the mods here on Extremeskins.

I definitely fall into that category. I'm not trying to test the limits of mods per se, but when somebody deserves a good butt whipping then it ends like Lethal Weapon on the front lawn. I am probably in the extreme minority on this, but then again, I call the team owner Lord Farquaad and have likened him to a less intelligent Dr. Evil. He could have me rubbed out if he wanted and nobody would ever know so here's to Daniel Snyder for having a sense of humor. Everyone is so deadly serious these days.

Funny does equal good by the way. :evilg:

Reaganaut

June-27th-2009, 01:12 AM

I'm totally the opposite- in real life, I'm all about snitching.

Lol, you dirty rotten snitch! :D MSF didn't bother me either. Colorful characters are usually more fun. We all LOVE to make fun of Terrell Owens. It's a total shame he's out of the NFC now. What happens when ES is scrubbed of all the salty personalities? I'm not a pessimist though. It's still a fantastic board.

Bubble Screen

June-27th-2009, 01:19 AM

IONTOP

June-27th-2009, 04:20 AM

I don't think I was a member here when MSF posted. But I remember reading his posts when I was a lurker. I enjoyed them. But I could never figure if he was completely serious or not. I mean, some of his beliefs were really off the wall. I thought he was a riot. Same way I do Westy. People take him too seriously.

MSF WAS always serious...

I don't think anyone found an inaccuracy or omission... He was always consistent in his views, so much that I wouldn't even bother reading his first posts because I knew what he'd say...

Mark The Homer

June-27th-2009, 04:26 AM

But I could never figure if he was completely serious or not. He was. Completely.

Bang

June-27th-2009, 06:08 AM

I will never report anyone ever. It's not in my make up. I'd rather settle things on the thread rather than face the humiliation of having a mod jump in. :doh:

I agree with this, too. This is pretty much how I feel about it. (Sorry if I personally insulted you! I'm sure it was not meant to be totally personal.. just my way, as you say.)

Most people here on ES remain within what I'd consider reasonable boundaries of the rules. Some of us stretch them, and that depends entirely on the situation. Some guys, like Reaganaut here are very passionate about what they're saying and are going to debate hard, can be sarcastic in the delivery, and may not show you the respect you feel you deserve. There's no kid gloves worn in these debates. If you step into that ring, expect to get hit a few times and don't go crying to Daddy when it happens. We're all adults here for the most part.

But that's just me, I do recognize the admins have a job to do, and not everyone is capable of self-policing. In fact, just the opposite, many would use their relative freedom to be as offensive as they can be just for the sake of it. In those regards, I do respect that the mods can keep our debates on a somewhat civil track, and as a result we're able to more freely express what we want to say without the thread being hijacked by someone who can't hang with the discourse.

~Bang

Mark The Homer

June-27th-2009, 07:24 AM

Some, though, are not interested in debating. Some are just interested in bullying. Some of them will even set up dupe accounts so they can bully with free reign knowing it doesn't matter if they're banned. A member can't defend himself because he doesn't have the weapons within the rules that his aggressor has outside the rules.

Fortunately, people like this are few and far between on this site. :)

Bang

June-27th-2009, 07:32 AM

I hear you Mark. I always subscribe to the mantra of "common sense". I think it's pretty obvious and easy to spot one who has nothing beyond bullying to offer.
The mods here are level-headed and do a fine job of it.

~Bang

zoony

June-27th-2009, 08:54 AM

Sorry Maj, but if that's what you got from Mass, you really didn't get him at all. But like I said, very few did.

For the record, that's what I think MSF was too. Little more.

Just because you tell people outside of ES that you're doing it all of a shtick doesn't make it necessarily so. For instance, I could tell people outside of ES that I'm actually a nice person :silly:

SC_RedskinsFan

June-27th-2009, 10:23 AM

I got to know Scott very well through pm's. If you took the time to know the guy he was very interesting. And he was always very serious about what he said. I found that he would listen to your point of view and even take advice in pm's. It was worth my effort to get to know MSF.

Monte51Coleman

June-27th-2009, 10:29 AM

Did MSF get the death penalty?

SC_RedskinsFan

June-27th-2009, 10:35 AM

Did MSF get the death penalty?

I thought he just left on his own, but i could be wrong on that one.

Monte51Coleman

June-27th-2009, 10:40 AM

I thought he just left on his own, but i could be wrong on that one.

That's too bad. I hope he returns.

SpringfieldSkins

June-27th-2009, 10:54 AM

I thought he just left on his own, but i could be wrong on that one.

My understanding is, that after many temp bans and repeated attempts from the Mods to try and get MSF to change his habits, he was finally permanently banned. I believe it was for something that he posted in the Stadium but I'm too lazy to look it up. Perhaps it's that I just don't care that much.

He was a very interesting poster here. He was always 100% calculated in his words and definitely 100% serious. There was hardly any joking, and definitely no shtick.

Old Bay

June-27th-2009, 11:04 AM

Can I just say that I think this place is run well? I know there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that us laymen don't see, so it can be tricky. And for anyone who wants to see madness from the mods needs to check out the Caps forum. It's sad what they're doing over there.

Mark The Homer

June-27th-2009, 11:06 AM

MSF had a number of classic quotes.

One of them:

"Those who occassionally engage in jovialty are better off putting that time to more productive use."

Words to that effect.

Bubble Screen

June-27th-2009, 12:13 PM

My understanding is, that after many temp bans and repeated attempts from the Mods to try and get MSF to change his habits, he was finally permanently banned. I believe it was for something that he posted in the Stadium but I'm too lazy to look it up. Perhaps it's that I just don't care that much.

He was a very interesting poster here. He was always 100% calculated in his words and definitely 100% serious. There was hardly any joking, and definitely no shtick.

I remember he always said "so far as im concerned". :laugh:

Bang

June-27th-2009, 12:43 PM

zoony

June-27th-2009, 12:55 PM

While I had no problem with MSF, his views really don't fit the modern world. Those archaic ideals and the fact that he had possibly the lowest self esteem of any person who ever posted here will likely keep him lonely and angry til the day he dies.

~Bang

ES.com, in many respects, has Tina Turner syndrome. The bigger the ******* you act, the more folks want to try to understand you and try and determine that you are in fact a nice guy, just misunderstood.

"Oh, just because MSF bragged about punching babies, he's not REALLY a jerk. He's just misunderstood. Nobody knows him like I do"

"Just because MSF has threatened to kill liberals, he's just kidding around. Nobody understands him"

"Even though he is an attention whore on a scale that would make Toe Jam blush, and whenever he gets called out he runs home to his woe is me routine like a spineless twit, he's really a good guy. You just don't know him like I know him."

Really? Seriously folks... really? :doh:

"Hit me again MSF, but this time put some STANK on it!!!"

It is sort of amusing actually, to me anyways.

Major Harris

June-27th-2009, 12:57 PM

ES.com, in many respects, has Tina Turner syndrome. The bigger the ******* you act, the more folks want to try to understand you and try and determine that you are in fact a nice guy, just misunderstood.

"Oh, just because MSF bragged about punching babies, he's not REALLY a jerk. He's just misunderstood. Nobody knows him like I do"

"Just because MSF has threatened to kill liberals, he's just kidding around. Nobody understands him"

"Even though he is an attention whore on a scale that would make Toe Jam blush, and whenever he gets called out he runs home to his woe is me routine like a spineless twit, he's really a good guy. You just don't know him like I know him."

Really? Seriously folks... really? :doh:

"Hit me again MSF, but this time put some STANK on it!!!"

It is sort of amusing actually, to me anyways.

perfectly worded. 100% agree. there are others that have benefitted from the tina syndrome here as well. we'll leave well enough alone.

Jumbo

June-27th-2009, 01:10 PM

Alrighty then. :D

Of course, I should note we are digressing and headed into an "ES personality commentary" hijack which often doesn't go too well...so I'm going to desist at this point and encourage others to do the same fwiw

I'm just quoting myself here as another attempt to persuade for benign motives, based on experience. It's not some "mod order" or desire to unnecessarily direct conversation. But I can also say from experience, that should things continue past a certain point with discussing ex-members, threads can (maybe this one has already) take a direction that becomes inappropriate in varying ways. And in the past, threads have been closed when such continues.

An occasional comment or three in passing on a specific individual no longer able to post is one thing, but extended commentary on their persona is what can become questionable.

TK has long held a regretful feeling about MSF's absence as he really enjoyed the guy, other mods don't, and some have varying degrees of yea or nay, and I know seeing mods chime in and continue the topic logically seems to leave an endlessly open door on a matter that when focused on a particular poster in extended fashion was not the intended topic, or even a good idea, IMO. So I hope what I'm saying makes sense. :)

On a closing note, remember as it says in our rules, mods are also members and are allowed to have opinions on anything just like you. It doesn't mean when they post such opinions, even when about pondering the nature of how things work on ES, that they are automatically representing some "official" ES viewpoint, as alert members should be able to tell from the different views on various matters among the mods. :silly:

But rest assured, when taking any actual mod action, we are unified. ;)