So what does "Fan PRIDE" mean to US?

[Zombie4Skins]

Putting all of the debates about the team players, the coaching staff and the owner aside, I find there to be a incredibly vast disconnect between fans of the Redskins. There are two polarized groups, each of whom is completely rabid about the team, and EACH of whom is convinced that the OTHER side is clearly insane. What it really all boils down to is pride. What is "Pride in the team", and what that does that mean to us as fans?

There is an incredibly vocal group of fans (or "Homers") who believe that pride is defined as NEVER thinking/saying/tollerating ANY negativity about the team. These are the fans that exhort the others to "rally behind the team" and "show them that we care! The team REALLY need us now!" These fans believe that pride is to be defined as a staunch and unyeilding attitude of acceptance when it comes to the deficiencies and weaknesses of the Redskins. In their opinion, ANYONE that dares to even question the team (management, players, coaches, etc.) is obviously NOT a "true" or "real" fan. They make their contempt and derision for the "fairweather" fans (as they see it) plain in their posts. Their hope is that SOMEDAY, when (if) the Redskins make a playoff run, that they will finally be able to say "I NEVER stopped believeing in them. I'm a REAL fan!"

On the other side of the equation you have the fans who believe that the word "pride" is not defined as the same thing as "unconditional love". These fans believe that REAL pride needs to be EARNED through sacrifice, hard work and dedication. These fans have NO PROBLEM criticising the team/coaches/owner because they see PART of having pride as holding the team accountable to a high standard and DEMANDING that the team and players that represent us as an area and a demographic, play to a high standard that would NEVER conserve any effort that could have been used on the field. They believe that pride demands a REFUSAL to accept mediocrity and they believe that the players should be just as adamant in refusing to play poorly. This is the fan that believes that to have pride in the team also involves having pride in THEMSELVES. Pride to be KNOWN as a fan of the team. When the Redskins play poorly they don't even consider consoling the players, or letting the team know how much we "care, and love them". They want the team to know that they LET US DOWN, and that their gameplay is incompatible with the existance of pride. It's not the team being BEATEN that matters to them, as much as seeing players displaying heart or even demonstrating that they CARE if we win or lose a game. These fans are FURIOUS when they percieve a lack of effort or heart or concern on the part of the 'Skins. They don't see criticism and booing the team as a LACK of pride. They see it as PROOF OF IT!

It's like watching fathers at a kids sporting event. You'll have the fathers that will tell their child that they did GREAT! (no matter HOW terrible or uninspired the child played). Even if the kid sat down in the middle of the field and picked his nose all game long, this father will congratulate the child and hug him and tell him what an amazing effort he put forth. This father is less concerned with performance, and more concerned with not damaging "self-esteem".

Then there's the dad that's always pushing. If his child doesn't play up to tha standards that are EXPECTED, he lets his kid know. He gives praise where praise is due, but he ALSO makes it clear that there are some basic expectations that NEED to be met. If these expectations AREN'T met, or he senses that his child is not putting any heart or pride into his efforts, then he has NO problem letting that kid know how disappointed he is, and how he expects a BETTER effort and performance the next time.

Both fathers love their kids, but each father would argue that the other is doing a POOR job of parenting. The one for not pushing his child to live up to his ability and potential, and the other for being "too" critical and hurting the childs feelings.

So what kind of fan are you? Are you going to greet the 'Skins in Ashburn with milk, a plate of warm cookies, and a warm, accepting hug? Will you make sure that the players know that you LOVE them, no matter WHAT!? The way that you feel about the team, they could lose the next 25 games for all you care. You'd be proud of them just the same!!!


OR


Are you the fan that will be bleeped off of the air of a local sports call-in show while screaming about the total LACK of leadership, heart, and effort, that this team displays in ALL facets of the game? Are you the fan that will let the players know that you, in fact, are FILLED with Redskins pride!? You're proud of the NAME, the HERITAGE, the MEMORIES and the RESPECT that we were once shown in the NFL? It's actually your PRIDE that will not ALLOW you accept these dismal performances. You now REFUSE to support the team until they have earned back your respect by proving to you that they are JUST as proud of all of those things as YOU are.

Two diametrically opposed viewpoints, two identical passions. One team.

[Painkiller]

On the other side of the equation you have the fans who believe that the word "pride" is not defined the same way as "unconditional love". These fans believe that REAL pride needs to be EARNED through sacrifice, hard work and dedication. These fans have NO PROBLEM criticising the team/coaches/owner because they see having pride as holding the team accountable to a high standard; DEMANDING that the team and players that represent us as an area and a demographic, play to a high standard that NEVER leaves anything left that could have been put on the field. They believe that pride demands a REFUSAL to accept mediocrity and they believe that the players should be just as adamant in their refusal to play poorly. This is the fan that believes that to have pride in the team also involves having pride in THEMSELVES to be KNOWN as a fan of the team. When the Redskins play poorly they don't consider consoling the players, or letting the team know how much we "care, and love them". They want the team to know that they LET US DOWN, and their play is incompatible with the existance of pride. It's not getting BEATEN that matters to them, as much as players displaying heart or even showing that they CARE if we win or lose. These fans are FURIOUS when they percieve a lack of effort or heart or concern on the part of the 'Skins. They don't see criticism and booing the team as a LACK of pride. They see it as PROOF OF IT!

Count me in as one of these. Excellent assessment of my feelings on the matter.

[21forlyfe]

I hate having Wynn,Daniels,Gholston,Carter should be gone too next year..I like to have Jarmon,Jackson,Dixion,Wilson...thats is a real team going in the right direction...I know the average fans will say Jackson?Wilson?what have they done? thats my point we stick around with the same scrubs on the line and we wonder why we are still not getting any pressure...Do you know that Rob Jackson cant play?no you never seen him have the Opp him or Wilison ...A real franchise would have cut Wynn for Dixion start a youth movment

[skinsgirl26]

Count me in as one of these. Excellent assessment of my feelings on the matter.

+1...same here.

[Mark The Homer]

The problem with the complainers is, many of them walk away. They turn off their TVs and cut their ties as fans. That is not tough love. That is fair-weather fandom, defined.

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.

[Riggo-toni]

After today, fan pride might just mean....



Who does the most artistic job of coloring their paper bag....

[Painkiller]

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.

I admit it...but I did it to check my fantasy stats on the computer...where I also kept track of the game. After the first touchdown pass to Moss...I went back down stairs, and turned the game back on. Watched the second one live. Couldn't sleep that night, because I couldn't turn off the juices.

[Zombie4Skins]

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.


It's possible, but my guess is that almost EVERYONE is bitching right now. I just can't believe that ONLY "fairweather" fans are complaining after today's game.

[Captain_Sap's Skins]

It's possible, but my guess is that almost EVERYONE is bitching right now. I just can't believe that ONLY "fairweather" fans are complaining after today's game.


Yep, I watched the Monday Night Miracle from start to finish, didn't think they were going to win...I do remember thinking the losing streak to Dallas was going to continue.

Problem is, we're reaching back to 4 seasons ago as reason to believe. The offense was slightly different than now. Though still inept.

[D'KanSkinFan]

It's possible, but my guess is that almost EVERYONE is bitching right now. I just can't believe that ONLY "fairweather" fans are complaining after today's game.


You are correct about your statement - not everyone is "fairweather fan" that is bitching right now - some are trolls stirring up this board and some are angry because they lost points on their fantasy league.

Now....your challenge.......seperate out the Redskin fans from the "others";)

[loren]

Hm.......I'm not sure your two "fans" are mutually exclusive. I criticize almost every move the team makes, constantly. I'm under no illusion that they are a decent franchise, or that they'll be a contender anytime soon.

Still, 0-16, 19-0, it doesn't matter, I will always wear my burgundy and gold, and never stop being a Skins fan. If I'm lucky enough to go to a game, I will scream my lungs out cheering for them, and will never boo them, even when they suck, which they usually do.

It's a sports team, playing a game. If there's one thing I can blindly support in my life, it's that...

[DaGhost]

i'm the kind of fan that will be with this team until the day i die and who is pissed off at the ineptitude of this team for the last two decades...

we need to understand that right now we are in the same bucket as the browns, lions, and raiders (oh, wait, they went to a superbowl this decade)

[kevin11]

I'm in the middle. I agree that you should be critical, but not to the extent that some put it. Booing your team and telling them how they are an embarrassment to the NFL because they won is not being a fan. Even Detroit has fans that show up to games. If we lost 16 games in a row, I would still be here cheering them on. That's what makes me a fan. I'm wearing my jersey on Tuesday. regardless of this loss. (I got a chem lab and I'm not allowed to wear baggy clothes during it).

[ZEPHEAD]

I stay until the end, even though I know how it will end. I am a diehard Skins fan, but I don't have rosecolored glasses. This team is what it is, a subpar football team. Since Snyder has owned this team we are 77-86. We are what our record is. Atlants got rid of D. Hall, Oaklnad dumped him during the season. The same Oakland team that stockpiles sucky players. Not only did we pick him up, we just gave him $55 million dollars.

I have sat and watched one man take a proud franchise and run it into the ground. He has owned the team for 10 years, we have gone through Norv Turner, (Who he inherited but then dumped durung the season). Marty (Biggest mistake was letting him go after one season) the Ole' Ball Coach, Gibbs and now Zorn. Now what???

I have watched him bing in players like Stubby, Neon, Jeff George, Carrier, Adam "Gets My Money" Archletta (Better then Ryan "I've Got A Ring" Clark) Bruce Smith, Dan Wilkerson, D. Hall etc. etc. When is enough is enough. I'm not into S&M. I know if I shop at Home Depot and I'm sopending top dollar and I find out that they are selling me an inferior product, what do I do? Continue shopping there?

[jb4348]

The problem with the complainers is, many of them walk away. They turn off their TVs and cut their ties as fans. That is not tough love. That is fair-weather fandom, defined.

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.


I ***** and yell at the tv like no other, but I never turn the game off. I watch from the first snap to the last snap no matter what the outcome is. I have great passion for the Redskins, but I hate hearing our own players telling us fans no to be worried or not to complain and that they are doing their jobs. You know what though. I have been a fan alot alonger than they have even been with the organization so yeah maybe the players and coaches should listen to the fans some of us do know what we are talking about.

[36HAMMER]

i'm used to be the former(milk and cookies),but i am now the later.i have been a fan longer than alot of you have been alive.i don't begrudge anyone who is fed up with this type of play.we have been in the quagmier for at least 4 to 5 years.the problem is snyder,and as long as he wants to be envolved and and have his yes man their it isn't going to work.there's something fundamentaly flawed with this group of players.they get to a a point and thats it,no further.they just don't progress.Mr. Snyder i beg of you please.get a real Gm in here and give him the keys,then you do what you do best.make money.and it will be easier with a winning team.they ignored the oline when everyone knew it was an issue this year.now our running game striggles and we don't have the power to move anyone out in the red zone.wether people agree it doesn't really mater to me.things have happened just i thought they would.maybe he should higher Dungy as team president,he's helped build two franchises from the crap heap.he's trust worthy to an extreme.let him run it and get us a real Gm.a Gm who has a vision for a team,then he can get his coach and do with these players as he see's fit.

[thesubmittedone]

The problem with the complainers is, many of them walk away. They turn off their TVs and cut their ties as fans. That is not tough love. That is fair-weather fandom, defined.

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.


Spot on Mark... although his glowing assessment, which was way off, about those types failed to mention that little part. :hysterical:

You could tell where the bias is in the OP, not to mention the timing he made it in after one of the worst losses in a long time.

By the way, splitting anything into two camps is ignorance, really. I can share my feelings about how I view fandom and it wouldn't fall into either of those categories. Leave the "two camps" idea for the ignorant leaders of the world and lazy intellect.

[F-16 CHIEF]

The problem with the complainers is, many of them walk away. They turn off their TVs and cut their ties as fans. That is not tough love. That is fair-weather fandom, defined.

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.

Me!

I can't stand losing. I mean literally. I cannot take losing at all. If the Redskins are behind in the 4th, I quit watching. That's just what I need to do personally. If I don't watch, I won't be near as angry. It's just my personality. I cannot accept watching loosing football.

I did. I watched faithfully until Spurrier, then I had enough. I reached a point that many people are reaching today. I've had enough.

I haven't watched a single snap all season. Why would I? This is a throw away season. JC is done. Blache is done. Zorn is done. Portis is done. We weren't serious about this season or Zorn and Campbell wouldn't be here.

It's my right not to watch. I'll watch when they are comitted to winning again. Until then, I'm not interested.

Does it make me a bad fan? It's not up to me to judge. I've been a fan since 1981 so I don't know. I just know that I have the freedom to turn the TV. I'd rather enjoy Sunday's with my wife and daughter than be upset. The Redskins have brought very little happiness to me in 18 years.

Why should a football team determine if I'm happy or not? I won't let them affect me any longer.

Whew! I feel better. Same time next week? :)

[Zombie4Skins]

By the way, splitting anything into two camps is ignorance, really. I can share my feelings about how I view fandom and it wouldn't fall into either of those categories.


I disagree. I think that it's blatantly obvious which camp you have your tent staked in. Btw, are the cookies almost done baking?

[thesubmittedone]

I disagree. I think that it's blatantly obvious which camp you have your tent staked in. Btw, are the cookies almost done baking?



lol, nice. You sure are one to fail at hiding your agenda, huh? ;)

Would you like me to state my view, and see how wrong you are? If so, I want a solemn promise from you that you'll admit you were totally wrong, and man up about it.

[jflow78]

The problem with the complainers is, many of them walk away. They turn off their TVs and cut their ties as fans. That is not tough love. That is fair-weather fandom, defined.

How many people reading this turned off the TV during the 3rd Qtr of the Monday Night Miracle game in 2005? And will admit it?

I bet those are the same ones bitching so loudly right now.

I watched every minute of that game and will never turn off a game specifically because that game was so amazing.

However, I'm definitely not happy right now and wish things were going to get better, this week I thought they might, but it definitely looked worse than last week (except for passing ironically). It just looked like the players aren't even there. The OL was awful, even the RBs looked like they quit. I remember one of the final plays in the 4th, when it looked to me like all Hall had to do was put his arm out and he could have knocked the ball away, instead he just jogged over to the receiver as he caught the ball.

If the players even quit on the team, I don't know, I've don't remember seeing this kind of thing as a Skins fan. It's amazing. And I mean that in the worst way possible. I'm complaining right now, but I love the Skins and hope some miracle turn around begins next week, but I'm pretty much hopeless at this point. We should not be THIS bad, not even close.

[Zombie4Skins]

lol, nice. You sure are one to fail at hiding your agenda, huh? ;)



No particular agenda. I agree that I am a member of one of the two groups. It's probably not very hard to figure out which one. That being said, my only goal was to separate the fans into two "rough" groups and see what other's opinions were. To your point, I suppose that I could have attempted to parse the fanbase down into a ridiculous number of shades and meanings, but that seemed pointless. Whether or not you are exactly like one of the groups I described is immaterial. The majority of fans will identify more strongly with one camp or the other. Just interested in how others define "Team Pride".

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Is it that I am not impartial? I never claimed that I was. In the meantime, I'm still very interested in whether people consider "Redskins pride" to be defined as "Not being negative toward the team", or "Demanding the best from the team that we root for and being vocal about it when we don't get it."

[jflow78]

By the way, splitting anything into two camps is ignorance, really. I can share my feelings about how I view fandom and it wouldn't fall into either of those categories. Leave the "two camps" idea for the ignorant leaders of the world and lazy intellect.

I agree completely BFF:D

[WARPATH '82]

I believe we've come to a defining moment in the history of this great franchise which was once considered the class of the NFL. Some people want to complain about the fans who rightfully voice their displeasure and are upset at Danny ruining this team, but they dont to hold the team accountable for anything! I will continue being a fan, but I refuse to be a fool. We (Skins Fans) are treated like :pooh: with Seating, Ticket and Parking fiascos. Yet we foolishly support his product because for many of us its all we know.

Am I not a "TRUE" fan because I voice my displeasure at the way things are being run compared to the fan that smiles and agrees with everything the Skins do and say...... right or wrong?

I guess we've become so mediocore, that some of us would rather accept the status quo and keep hope alive rather than voice their displeasure. The teams that are good and win year in and out have good foundations, can we HONESTLY make that claim about our team?

[Brotherz]

I hurt today. I love this team. It is utterly sad that this is what they are. I look forward to their recovery.