If firing Zorn early-mid season is impractical, what about firing Vinny?

[SMOSS89]

As in, what are the benefits of hiring one of the big name guys (Like Holmgren) as a Bill Parcells role like in Miami? I thinkt he main benefit would be for a guy like him to evaluate the talent on the current roster IN season, so that when the offseason comes around he already is relatively familiar with the personnel on the current team, so he can quickly and more accurately identify needs.

Thoughts? I think I've really stepped my game up with thread creation, lately (not to toot my own horn lol).

[KevinthePRF]

It would be a long awaited stroke of genius. The key is finding a doctor available that could successfully do the hip separation surgery with Dan Snyder.

[Hooper]

Firing Vinny would be the same thing as Danny firing himself. Vinny only has a NFL job for one reason: to let Danny pull all the strings.

This was proven during the year Marty was here. The first thing Marty did was kick Vinny to the curb where he belonged. For a year, Vinny didn't even sniff another NFL job interview. And why should he? He had a terrible track record in both San Fran and in Washington.

And then Danny told Marty he couldn't have full control anymore. Now some folks think Marty made some bad personnel moves. Maybe he did. Maybe Danny was right -- maybe Marty wasn't the right guy to have 100 percent control.

But after Marty left, instead of seriously interviewing other personnel men, Danny hired Vinny, who was already a two-time league-wide joke. Danny made it three by hiring him again.

People hate Spurrier and he was a disaster as a coach. But few folks remember that Danny promised him a "first class personnel guy" when he was courting him.

And then he hired Vinny. Face it -- Spurrier got royally f'ed in that department.

Ask anyone around the league. Heck, ask the players and coaches if you ever see them. And they will all tell you -- Vinny only has a job because he lets Danny be Danny. So if Danny fires Vinny... where does that leave Danny?

[Salty]

If they do that who will do the radio show?

[wildbill1952]

Fire Vinny. I like the idea. It ain't happening, but I like it.

I am still lost trying to figure out the draft, and the FA moves, and the entire direction of the team after last year's 2-6 end-of-season debacle. The coaches, and Vinny, met after the season. According to the people that were there, Vinny asked the question, "What happened?" At the time, one of the coaches said he thought it was a joke since it was obvious to him and everyone else that the OLine just turned belly up. All of the coaches agreed it was an issue with the OLine. Vinny was there and received the report. And during the draft and during the offseason, the only things they did was grab Dockery, who fell into their lap because of a Buffalo paperwork snafu, promote a UDFA (Heyer) to right tackle, even though he looked terrible when he played, and grab a couple of second string, third string and practice squad guys from other teams. Oh, and acquire the feel good story on Mike Williams, who apparently is not good enough to replace Heyer, nor apt to stay healthy when he does.

They make no moves to replace their undersized center who is being pushed into the backfield by any NT he plays. Nor did they look at drafting another guard to eventually replace the oft-injured Randy Thomas, who was returning from neck and knee surgery. They did drop the guard that could only practice one day a week last year because of his torn up knees, but the replacement was not planned, just fortuitous. They dropped Jon Jansen, notably old and past his prime, and replaced him with someone they felt was doing an excellent job. The talent evaluation leaves a lot to be desired, when it's apparent the Skins cannot do anything on the right side in the run game, and Heyer is having trouble blocking any DE thrown at him.

I understand Orakpo is a unique talent. But we passed up OL in the second round. Then the third round, then all the rest of the rounds. OK, there's still free agency, right? We get Mike Williams, who hasn't played in 3 years. We get a former second string player out of Carolina and cut him. And we take more Maryland players, none of whom even got a sniff from the other NFL teams in the draft. As I said, Dockery came back out of pure luck, but why didn't the Skins make an attempt to sign him when he was already here. I understand not after he got millions from Buffalo, but he would have taken a contract extension for a lot less if offered after he became a first team guard.

I'm not complaining about getting Haynesworth or signing Hall. But it's as if every time the Skins go shopping for players, they put OL blinders on, relying on OL that were never any good on their former team. Somehow, whoever is making the decisions seems to think that a summer in the weight room and coaching by Buges is going to turn a silk purse into a Hog. That ain't happening either.

So, since Vinny is in charge of player development and scouting talent, I say fire him. Find someone who isn't afraid to draft an OL. Find someone who doesn't mind spending, or at least offering, big bucks to lure a top-notch OL from another team. Find someone who recognizes that a poor OL means a poor offense. Get a GM who recognizes that before we spin the talent wheel and go through the new HC, new QB, new WR, new DL, new DB circle of life we've gone through so many times, that maybe, just once, we try to get more than one or two OL who are considered good or even borderline great.

Until the talent level comes up several notches on the OL, at every position, the offense is going to stay in the cellar of the league. If firing Vinny corrects that, I'm all for it.

[Hooper]

Great post, wildbill1952. The failure to address the offensive line beyond signing a cast-off from Buffalo was and still is baffling.

The plan seemed to be "pray that no one gets hurt."

[Taylor 36]

I am not a Vinny supporter or apologists, but I don't get it. We have talent on this team. Vinny has done his job. Think about the late round talent he has brought in once he was handed over the responsibilities after Gibbs left.

It is the coaches' job to make that talent work. No one on this board or anywhere in the football world can honestly say that with the talent we have that a better coach/coaching staff wouldn't be getting more out of them. That does NOT fall on Vinny. He didn't hire the coach.

[spjunkies]

Vin will never be fired again.

Sorry

[newvillage]

I've been saying that for years. SF pretty much ran him out of town after he ran them into the ground. As long as we have Vinny we will never go anywhere. He's Dan's right hand man... Oh and free agency is not the way to build a team. This is why we have the oldest team in the league. We need to improve and groom through the draft like most other teams.

[JohnnyUtah]

I think firing Vinny is absolutely the correct move to do at this point. It makes perfect sense to bring in a trusted guy to evaluate our team during the season. Further, it would be a huge morale improvement to a fan base that apparently needs one. I only wish Snyder could see what everyone else does.

[darkhorse472]

I love the idea...

Vinny was set up to succeed or fail by his promotion. So, he's accountable, so fire him for such short-term thinking and poor management.

Bring in Holmgren as GM now...let there be some sort of accountability. At least Holmgren knows the coach.

Leadership starts from the top.

[authentic]

stock piling on young Olinemen? Look at the Giants. When Eli first went to NY, the Oline was young and sorry. But soon after that they became one of the best Olines in football. And who would have thought that the results on offense is directly related to the Oline? Danny cut Vinny please!!!!!! and hire someone with common sense and experience.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

It would be a long awaited stroke of genius. The key is finding a doctor available that could successfully do the hip separation surgery with Dan Snyder.

So funny...yet, so true.

[TheLongshot]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

[darkhorse472]

I am not a Vinny supporter or apologists, but I don't get it. We have talent on this team. Vinny has done his job. Think about the late round talent he has brought in once he was handed over the responsibilities after Gibbs left.

It is the coaches' job to make that talent work. No one on this board or anywhere in the football world can honestly say that with the talent we have that a better coach/coaching staff wouldn't be getting more out of them. That does NOT fall on Vinny. He didn't hire the coach.

Coaching only goes so far even with talent if the talent doesn't have the team in mind. Talent is necessary to win in football, but it is overrated. The most talented teams in football don't win. Look at the Steelers last year...most talented, no way. The Ravens when they won...the Patriots had a great offensive line, a great quarterback, and team defense. But were they the most talented team over the past decade? Maybe at certain positions they had elite players. But more importantly they never overpaid players that messes with team chemistry or team heirarchy.

The Redskins are messed up because they pay too many players who do not have the leadership skills to rally the team. Everyone is a "My play speaks for my leadership" player. Well guess what, that's a damn selfish attitude and will never create an environment to excel.

Look at Ray Lewis...he earns every dollar they pay him...his play speaks for itself AND he backs it up by being the undisputed leader on the defense. He gets everyone to buy in and gives them confidence to do their jobs. If not, you're accountable to him AND the coaches.

There's NO accountability on the Redskins. Who are players accountable to on this team?! To the coaches who they think will simply be replaced? No. To the players to who say "I lead by my play only"? No...because they never step up and get in guys faces.

Talent also places too many expectations on a team. There's nothing worse than unachieved potential. The flaws come from management. Even a great coach would have difficulty here. It's obvious to a lot of people.

Fire Vinny Now!

[SMOSS89]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

It wouldn't, but Parcells came in during the latter half of the '07 season, that was done to allow him to scout the current team and make good decisions as to who should stay, who should go. But yes, your point is certainly valid about the 2009 season. But if we the fans want structural change, a move like this would boost morale, maybe put the players on notice, and really allow for some good, hopefully improved, self scouting. That's the thing we have not done well, is self scouting.

[darkhorse472]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

Will keeping Vinny make this team better this season?

[celts32]

If the day ever comes where Vinny finally gets fired it will be one of the best days of my life.

[Dick Edds]

I think firing Vinny is absolutely the correct move to do at this point. It makes perfect sense to bring in a trusted guy to evaluate our team during the season. Further, it would be a huge morale improvement to a fan base that apparently needs one. I only wish Snyder could see what everyone else does.

I 3rd this idea ... it wold also let the coaching staff and players know that they are playing for their jobs. A real GM is not going to give a crap about "feel good" stories and "sentimental" reasons for keeping any player on the team.

The more I think about it, the more i think we are screwed.

I bet that at some point down the line we may finally have a winning season ... and I fully expect cocky Vinny and shorty Dan to act like they "knew what they were doing" all along.

The only way this happens is if season tickets stat rapidly declining and fans stop showing up at the games and buying merchandise. Sadly, money is the only way Dan Snyder wold ever even consider a change at the top.

[Dick Edds]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

it will make a statement to the coaches and players ... that regardless "if they pockets straight" or not ... they will not be guaranteed anything with the new coaching regime.

This will ABSOLUTELY make a huge difference. Not right now, but for the off-season and into next season. This is EXACTLY what Snyder needs to do. But we all know its never going to happen. Even if we brig a real GM in here, Vinny will keep his little cush job with some made up title relating to football decisions, etc.

[Rhodus333]

it will make a statement to the coaches and players ... that regardless "if they pockets straight" or not ... they will not be guaranteed anything with the new coaching regime.

This will ABSOLUTELY make a huge difference. Not right now, but for the off-season and into next season. This is EXACTLY what Snyder needs to do. But we all know its never going to happen. Even if we brig a real GM in here, Vinny will keep his little cush job with some made up title relating to football decisions, etc.

I was thinking this too. If Snyder is so taken with Cerrato couldn't he just keep him on the payroll and invent a new title for him? That way he could appease the fanbase who he must know can't stand Cerrato, hire a real GM, and still keep Vinny from showing those compromising pictures of Dan and the transvestite from Vegas to the media.

[Birdlives]

All this stuff is completely useless and hopeless because whether Vinny is head of personel or Zorn is the coach it doesn't matter. The problems with our team start at the top. As long as Snyder pretends himself to be a football guy, we will suffer, our team will fail, and no one will take us seriously. We can only hope that whichever kid he leaves the team to has more sense than he does.

[KevinthePRF]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

It will do nothing to make this team better this season. It will do tons to make this team better next season vs firing after game 16.

Fire Vinny, and over the next 3 weeks, get at the very least your GM hire list. If you got a strong candidate get them in here.

At the very least whoever is on the list is going to simultaneously have an in season evaluation of the Skins personel and coaching staff. If he has scouting staff, etc he has in mind to bring they will have an early start on next year also. If you do all this in January or Febuary (at the start of free agency!) your next guy is behind the eight ball from the start for 2010.

[ntotoro]

If they do that who will do the radio show?

The Wiggles would be about as credible.

[GaryGreenMonk]

same problem.. you need a viable option as a long term replacement proven GM

[ntotoro]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

It'll keep the team from possibly being worse off next season.

Nothing can make the team any better this season.

[Braxford]

Vinny will never be fired because he does whatever Snyder tells thim to. They both live in Danny World which is totally lame and the complete opposite of Disney World...kind of like Six Flags.;)

[dapjdj]

I think this is more about Dan Synder's personality and management style. He'll jettison Vinny at some point, most likely when the Skins sputter to a totally disasterous 4-12 or 6-10 W/L record. If the team finishes 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 Danny can satisfy himself that Vinny's decisions are bearing fruit and "we are just that close....".

So, I conclude Vinny isn't going anywhere until this franchise hits rock bottom and there's no hope, no alternative - and the target of all the blame has to be Vinny, because there's no one else to blame.

At that point, it may be that Danny realizes he needs to bring in real football professionals to run the franchise. But I'm not holding my breath...

In the meantime, Danny and Vinny will continue to look like clowns around the league, having descended into the dreaded Bill Bidwell and Al Davis seventh level of football Hell - a place no one wants to inhabit, unless of course, there's a $30 million check involved!!

Isn't that right Mssrs. Cowher and Holmgren?

[Boss_Hogg]

Danny's racquetball buddy is not going anywhere.

These two clowns are going to be here for a long time. :doh:

[Hooper]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

I know you're his biggest defender and all and I love ya Longshot...

... but firing Vinny is so long overdue it's even a bigger joke than the man himself is anymore. The man simply can't be defended anymore.

The players laugh behind his back. The coaches do too. I know both for a fact. Because they know he is a yes man, nothing more. And the sooner Snyder cuts the cord, the earlier progress can be made. I don't expect it to happen, but how exactly would firing him now hurt anything? The roster is set. I'm sure someone else could pray the offensive line doesn't suffer any injuries just as well as Cerrato does now. Great plan, Dan and Vinny!

Seriously, he needs to go. I am so sick of the spin when it comes to this joke of a front office. I don't expect Snyder to ever completely get out of the way, but admitting Vinny is part of problem and in no way part of the solution can only help.

Kick him to the curb, Dan. He's a JOKE.

[Chachie]

Firing Vinny Cerrato at any point in time is highly practical.

[Skin'emAlive]

Just curious, but what do you think firing Vinny now would accomplish, other than make a few fans feel slightly better? Firing Vinny now will do nothing to make this team better this season.

Jason, ive been in your camp on almost every issue for years now. On this issue alone, i have given Vinny the benefit of the doubt time and time again. I have (like many others) looked at the results of the players that were not chosen by us and compared their stats to whom we drafted. Usually our picks have been pretty good stat-wise. Unfortunately this does not equate to wins. For example, Calias Campbell did not have good stats last year, and our picks on paper may have looked better. However, the Cards did go to the superbowl with him on the team. We have gone nowhere for years.

It is finally time to kick Vinny out the door. His draft picks as of late have been quite serviceable, but they are not equating to wins. This can only mean there is a deeper psychological problem with the team. We all witnessed how well the skins played when there was a sense of passion (ST and Portis's 5 game 100+ streak). But the rest of the time, it is just missing. We have qb's breaking 3 tackles for 20+ yard rushing plays. We have bums worrying about their rap albums more than their play. We have players getting pushed back 5 yards on every blocking play and claim we are getting better. We have probowl backs whining about getting more money when they just signed a new contract a year prior (sellers). Now sellers isnt blocking with a damn, and sure isnt catching.

Their heads arent in the game. This comes from the top. I like Danny. He needs to fire Vinny now and put this circus behind us. The sooner the better.

[TheDarb]

Fire Vinny? That would be like Mr. Burns firing Smithers.