Kelly & Thomas WR #'s vs. 08' and 09' picks

[FromTheUtoDC]

Receiver-------------------------Catches Receiving Yards--------TDs
DeSean Jackson------------------74 ----------1171-------------4
Eddie Royal-----------------------97-----------1022-------------5
Donnie Avery---------------------63-----------736--------------3
Jordy Nelson----------------------37-----------423--------------2
Kenny Britt-----------------------10-----------166--------------0
Percy Harvin----------------------12-----------128--------------2
Devin Thomas---------------------16 ----------127--------------0
James Hardy----------------------9------------87---------------2
Malcolm Kelly---------------------9-------------83--------------0
Limas Sweed----------------------7------------69--------------0
Mohamed Massaquoi --------------2------------31--------------0
Darrius Hayward-Bey--------------1------------18--------------0
Hakeem Nicks---------------------2------------18--------------0
Jerome Simpson-------------------1------------2---------------0
Michael Crabtree------------------0------------0---------------0
Brian Robiskie---------------------0------------0---------------0


From round 1 and 2, besides the top 3 WRs, not too far off the remainder of the pack. I think it's just going to take time for these guys to pick up the pro game. They have a ton of upside, we'll just have to wait it out. One thing we need to make sure of is that Zorny understands they won't always run the route perfectly so he has to let JC throw them the ball and make them earn their catches. If there are INTs so be it. That's part of the game.

[Mark The Homer]

Dude, you need to edit that **** above so it's readable. A link wouldn't hurt either.


Hint: If you surround the text with code and /code (using the [] brackets)
sometimes that helps.

[SIXX99]

I can't belive that out of all of those guys from 08, Vinny managed to pick the two that have done nothing.

[Hooper]

I will not label Kelly or Thomas busts until I see them play with another QB.

JC has improved in some areas this year, but he still doesn't see the whole field or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

[IS guhn RAIN]

I can't belive that out of all of those guys from 08, Vinny managed to pick the two that have done nothing.

its all about the system in my opinion. desean jackson could have been on the redskins but he wouldnt have gotten any playing time last year. He makes a couple boneheaded mistakes and zorn would have been afraid to put him in the game. zorn doesnt play rookies and is afraid to take a chance on them no matter the potential.

Even if the rookies get in the game and perform, campbell sometimes misses open recievers or throws the ball late. Its so hard to judge recievers because some are put into such better circumstances than others.

Remember when people used to think wes welker was no good in miami?? its amazing what a good qb and a good coach can do for you.

Limas sweed is the only one you can start to put bust label on so far because he is in a good offense with a good coach and a good qb and he simply cant catch the ball and get it done.

[Mark The Homer]

Receiver-------------------------Catches Receiving Yards TDs
DeSean Jackson------------------74 ----------1171-------------4
Eddie Royal-----------------------97-----------1022-------------5
Donnie Avery---------------------63-----------736--------------3
Jordy Nelson----------------------37-----------423--------------2
Kenny Britt-----------------------10-----------166--------------0
Percy Harvin----------------------12-----------128--------------2
Devin Thomas---------------------16 ----------127--------------0
James Hardy----------------------9------------87---------------2
Malcolm Kelly---------------------9-------------83--------------0
Limas Sweed----------------------7------------69--------------0
Mohamed Massaquoi --------------2------------31--------------0
Darrius Hayward-Bey--------------1------------18--------------0
Hakeem Nicks---------------------2------------18--------------0
Jerome Simpson-------------------1------------2---------------0
Michael Crabtree------------------0------------0---------------0
Brian Robiskie---------------------0------------0---------------0


From round 1 and 2, besides the top 3 WRs, not too far off the remainder of the pack. I think it's just going to take time for these guys to pick up the pro game. They have a ton of upside, we'll just have to wait it out. One thing we need to make sure of is that Zorny understands they won't always run the route perfectly so he has to let JC throw them the ball and make them earn their catches. If there are INTs so be it. That's part of the game.That's better, thank-you.

Just for future reference, for you or anybody who's listening, if you use
, you can line that stuff up without the dashes using the edit screen and it'll line up almost exactly the way it looks in your edit.

Example:

[code]
Able 1
Baker 2
Charlie 3
Delta 4

[CRogersGuy]

I swear I can remember Devin Thomas getting a really nice touchdown last year... :whoknows:

[HigSkin]

It just goes to show you what a poop-shoot the draft really is. Two of the 16 guys are actually having decent careers.

[HigSkin]

I swear I can remember Devin Thomas getting a really nice touchdown last year... :whoknows:

It was called back because of a penalty, right?

[CRogersGuy]

It was called back because of a penalty, right?

Ah, that might be it.

[SIXX99]

I swear I can remember Devin Thomas getting a really nice touchdown last year... :whoknows:

It was a reverse, so it was a rushing TD.

[HigSkin]

It was a reverse, so it was a rushing TD.

Ohhhh, that's right....rushing is not in his stats above.

[SkinsNoles21]

Eddie Royal is doing nothing this year btw.

[IS guhn RAIN]

Eddie Royal is doing nothing this year btw.

Because Jay Cutler is not throwing the ball up and giving him a chance and McDaniels calls different plays than Shanahan did. Eddie royal didnt all of a sudden become worse. This goes with my above statement that it just matters what offense your in and who your qb is to achieve certain stats. Stats are so overrated and you can judge recievers in their second year based on them. the only stats relevant are the "thrown to" or "targets" stats compared to completions and yards after catch, which can also be thrown off by what routes your coach has you running and how late the ball gets there in and out of your breaks

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

It just goes to show you what a poop-shoot the draft really is. Two of the 16 guys are actually having decent careers.

Well, there was a professionalism issue with Thomas and health issues with Kelly.

Much of that is based on last year, this year hasn't played out yet.

Also, for the people calling these guys busts---let's get a real QB (or Jason to magically turn into something better) and some interesting playcalling and you'll see that at least one of these guy is pretty good.

[HoggLife]

I swear I can remember Devin Thomas getting a really nice touchdown last year... :whoknows:


Ya I believe he ran a reverse for 1 and he had 1 called back because of a penalty.

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

I can't belive that out of all of those guys from 08, Vinny managed to pick the two that have done nothing.

Has anyone ever stopped to think that most of these picks aren't busts, but the team just has no f'n clue of how to use them? I mean honestly, it's not like any of the established guys on the team are playing much better...

[Thirtyfive2seven]

That's better, thank-you.

Just for future reference, for you or anybody who's listening, if you use
, you can line that stuff up without the dashes using the edit screen and it'll line up almost exactly the way it looks in your edit.

Example:

[code]
Able 1
Baker 2
Charlie 3
Delta 4


You have no idea how much that helps :) I was going to start a thread one time, seriously, but I couldn't get any of the stats to line up and it looks like a giant cluster **** so I deleted it.
Thanks

As for the post - good stuff but really I think it's just too early to tell. JC hasn't been ON and may not ever be and the play calling sucks to top it off. If you put Kelly on the Colts, or Thomas paired with (pick a QB) you'd have a dangerous couple.

[acuratl1984]

Add Mario Manningham

[michiskin]

Add Mario Manningham

I may be biased cuz I'm a Wolverines fan, but that's who I wanted all along. D. Thomas transferred from a Junior College and had one good year at MSU, Manningham was making last-second winning TD grabs as a freshman and starting as a sophomore.

Of course, with the way Michigan receivers have produced in the NFL in general, I understand the hesitancy.

Still it grinds my gears that the NYG got him.

[Rocky21]

Someone give me the proper ES etiquette. I've heard over and over here that you can't judge a wide reciever for __ years.

When can I call Devin Thomas a bust?

[PorkSkins]

You're not a bust until you get in the HOF.

[Botched]

We have seen Kelly burn a defense twice already. Steelers in preseason and the Rams a couple weeks ago. He's looking good to me. Thomas had that nice reverse last year but hasn't done anything great in the passing game yet.

If these guys were playing for the Saints we'd be hammering Cerrato for not drafting them.

[gortiz]

man ...i never really thought about this, but this has to be on zorn.

really.

how can ALL THREE of these guys not pan out so far? ALL THREE? I think zorn tore these guys down and then forgot the minor detail of building them back up ...

i know thomas and sleep boy have some character issues, and that is on vinny, but the whole thing is starting to just suck.

why have these guys not been coached up?

sure you can throw jason into the equation and say he is not getting them the ball, but that would only be a part of the story.

[The Tris]

I will not label Kelly or Thomas busts until I see them play with another QB.

JC has improved in some areas this year, but he still doesn't see the whole field or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

Yeah, it's tough to really know what we have as they just don't get the necessary looks. Often the field is cut in half and the second and third WRs are not even part of the progression.

[skinsfan07]

We have seen Kelly burn a defense twice already. Steelers in preseason and the Rams a couple weeks ago. He's looking good to me. Thomas had that nice reverse last year but hasn't done anything great in the passing game yet.

If these guys were playing for the Saints we'd be hammering Cerrato for not drafting them.

agreed. These guys would be stars with a solid oline and an above average qb. We can only wait. I think that both will be very solid NFL wr's but only time will tell. Until we get some solid youth to revamp the o-line, then will we see dramatic progress from both.

[dent19]

I can't belive that out of all of those guys from 08, Vinny managed to pick the two that have done nothing.

I can. But blame some on injury, and play calling. We at least dont have headaches as yet??????

[Koolblue13]

Eddie Royal is doing nothing this year btw.Sweed is getting benched.

[surfersvida]

Also, for the people calling these guys busts---let's get a real QB (or Jason to magically turn into something better) and some interesting playcalling and you'll see that at least one of these guy is pretty good.

If he can get it to Moss for 178, I'm not so sure it's the Quarterback.

[brlawson]

Guys, guys, guys. You all overlook the fact that these teams (outside of St. Louis with Torry Holt) had no number one play maker receiver. We have Moss and ARE. Not saying ARE is a #1 or a go to guy, but we already had big play receivers. Your expectations are too high at this point for these guys to contribute. Talk to me once J. Campbell or whoever we have at QB has time to go through his progressions and get it to the open receiver.

[cphil006]

I can't belive that out of all of those guys from 08, Vinny managed to pick the two that have done nothing.

I wanted Limas Sweed, but that was wrong, too.

VINNY has to be FIRED.

[cphil006]

Guys, guys, guys. You all overlook the fact that these teams (outside of St. Louis with Torry Holt) had no number one play maker receiver. We have Moss and ARE. Not saying ARE is a #1 or a go to guy, but we already had big play receivers. Your expectations are too high at this point for these guys to contribute. Talk to me once J. Campbell or whoever we have at QB has time to go through his progressions and get it to the open receiver.

If Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas were #1 and #2 only... would they really have more catches or would our offense just be horrible with about 50 yards passing a game... all from Cooley?

[skins4eva]

I will not label Kelly or Thomas busts until I see them play with another QB.

JC has improved in some areas this year, but he still doesn't see the whole field or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

Bingo. He consistently locks on to one receiver. The problem with Jason is that he decides who the ball is going to be thrown to before the snap. Rarely does he take the snap and go throw his progression. He's not a good QB. When Todd Collins came in, we were throwing to receivers that Jason had never gotten the ball to. Again, it's almost impossible to evaluate these guys with Campbell.

[skinsfan1523]

Bingo. He consistently locks on to one receiver. The problem with Jason is that he decides who the ball is going to be thrown to before the snap. Rarely does he take the snap and go throw his progression. He's not a good QB. When Todd Collins came in, we were throwing to receivers that Jason had never gotten the ball to. Again, it's almost impossible to evaluate these guys with Campbell.


Wrong. Campbell you can tell goes through his progressions. Only thing is he does it too fast, and misses guys that get open after he looks them off, then dumps it off. Todd Collins for the 550,384th time, was running that offense for 10 years. He knew where everyone was, and knew right when he took the snap and saw what the defense did, who would be open. Todd ain't running that offense any more, I don't know why people are so confident he would be so much better.


Although Campbell I have noticed locks on to receivers when scrambling.

[The Tris]

Wrong. Campbell you can tell goes through his progressions. Only thing is he does it too fast, and misses guys that get open after he looks them off, then dumps it off.

Although Campbell I have noticed locks on to receivers when scrambling.

How ever you want to dress it up, you are still saying that they don't get a fair look sometimes. If it makes people feel better, we can blame it on the line...that doesn't give Jason the time to get to DT or MK in his progression. There, I'm not attacking Jason, so no one should get defensive. ;)

The bottomline is, they have to be thrown the ball in order to do anything, be that make a great catch or make a terrible drop. I'd love stats that compares their targets vs. these other WRs targets. This isn't about their performance in a vacuum, they depend on the various moving parts of our offense, and if anyone believe that our offense as currently opperating (whether due to QB play, play calling, running game, line play or receivers) gives a true estimate of our unknown/younger players, than you are crazy.

[illone]

I'm still pissed the Skins passed on Djax. That kid is something special.

[StillUnknown]

its worse when you add Fred Davis' numbers too it

[Forever21]

The real reason Thomas and Kelly don't have better numbers is that they're trapped behind two receivers making too much money to be benched and they have a QB who locks onto one guy.

[Botched]

its worse when you add Fred Davis' numbers too it

IMO, we should try to trade Fred Davis. I'm not sure we could get anything for him, but we won't use him at all anyway.