Reason.com: Warning to Teens: "'Sexting' Will Ruin Your Life"...

[ACW]

http://reason.com/blog/2009/10/08/warning-to-teens-sexting-will

...not because of the dirty pictures themselves, but because of what the hysterical adults will do to you if they find them.


The latest case comes from Iowa (http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3ArpQfuf00EfkJ%3Awww.iowacourts.gov%2FSupr eme_Court%2FRecent_Opinions%2F20090918%2F07-1051.pdf+%22jorge+canal%22+sex+offender&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNGFAtNBJrVWVoNoSGb7FzTqNQNBvQ&pli=1), where the state's supreme court just upheld the 2005 conviction and sentence of Jorge Canal. While he was 18, a 14-year-old female friend asked Canal to send her a picture of his penis. Even the Iowa Supreme Court acknowledges that the photo was at her request, that the two weren't romantically involved, and that the whole exchange was intended to be a joke. Nevertheless, it upheld Canal's conviction and sentence, which comes with the requirement that he register as a sex offender, likely for the rest of his life.


Dr. Marty Klein (http://sexualintelligence.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/when-adults-fail-children-for-life/) of the Sexual Intelligence blog comments:

All these adults were supposedly attempting to protect Iowa’s young people–by punishing this kid who was fooling around with a pal.


So let’s spend a moment in the real world (which none of these adults seem to inhabit). Which is likely to hurt this 14-year-old girl more—seeing a 2-square-inch photo of a friend’s erect penis, or being the reason that this friend will spend time in jail and decades as a registered sex offender? Her life is now ruined (in addition, of course, to his), because of her criminally negligent parents, criminally ambitious prosecutor, and 12 jury members who failed to protect people who needed justice but received only wrath.
For a fine example of the circular logic behind these laws, consider the defense of them Pat Trueman, counsel to a religious advocacy group called the Alliance Defense Fund, gave to a local TV station (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=692314):

"This was a serious offense. He was producing obscenity and distributing obscenity, and to a minor at that,"...


"But he also has to register as a sex offender -- and [he] may be on that sex offender registry for a lifetime," Trueman adds. "So if anyone had any doubts, sexting is a very serious crime -- and kids better get to know that."
Sexting isn't a "serious crime" because it causes irreparable damage to the senders and recipients of nude photos. It's a serious crime because Iowa lawmakers, prosecutors, and people like Pat Trueman have decided they want to ruin the lives of kids who engage in it.

Be sure to read Nancy Rommelmann's terrific sexting article from our July 2009 issue, "Anatomy of a Child Pornographer." (http://reason.com/archives/2009/06/04/anatomy-of-a-child-pornographe/print)

[Destino]

Everyone that blindly supports stronger punishment without concern for how they can (and without question WILL) be applied more broadly then initially described are to blame. We get a war over healthcare and hear all about our freedom being at peril, but when it comes to police powers (things that can take your freedom wrongly) people join the club and support pretty much anything because they want their friends to know they hate criminals.

[DCsportsfan53]

Everyone that blindly supports stronger punishment without concern for how they can (and without question WILL) be applied more broadly then initially described are to blame. We get a war over healthcare and hear all about our freedom being at peril, but when it comes to police powers (things that can take your freedom wrongly) people join the club and support pretty much anything because they want their friends to know they hate criminals.

Agree with everything you said. This country's sense of reality, fairness and common sense has gone so ****ing far off the deep end lately I feel like I'm in the twilight zone sometimes.

[Koala]

Probably unfair, but on the other something has to be done about the fact that the young generation is turning into a bunch of sluts and perverts. In the end, though, the parents are the ones ultimately responsible, and its not fair to come down on the kids.

I remember a friend of mine freaked out when her 13 year old daughter had sex, I was like hello, you were this close to being stripper till I intervened, you were knocked up by the age of 15, youve accepted money for sex, and youve been living in sin with men you werent married to for the last 15 years in a row, WTF did you expect her to learn??? Seriously.

[ACW]

Koala, you may have a point, but jail and registering as a sex offender???

[techboy]

Everyone that blindly supports stronger punishment without concern for how they can (and without question WILL) be applied more broadly then initially described are to blame. We get a war over healthcare and hear all about our freedom being at peril, but when it comes to police powers (things that can take your freedom wrongly) people join the club and support pretty much anything because they want their friends to know they hate criminals.

I agree, and this is one where I blame the Democrats. Just as Republicans are supposed to be the party of fiscal restraint and yet spend like drunken sailors every time they come into power, the Democrats are supposed to be the party of social freedom, but to get and keep power they end up trying to out-"tough on crime" the "tough on crime" party.

It's the same thing that leads to ridiculous prison overcrowding.

[ACW]

Techboy, you're right. They're afraid of being labeled "soft on crime." :doh:

[techboy]

Techboy, you're right.

No need to be redundant. :silly:

[Koala]

I agree ACW, but Id like to see something done about the parents. Its lazy parenting in the end. If you give your kid a cellphone, then you gotta be responsible for how he/she uses it. If child pornography is transmitted on a cellphone that is the property of a parent, the parent should face child porn laws, even if the kid was the one who did it. Thatll get some lazy parents to shape up real quick. You wanna give your kid a cellphone, fine, but you better trust them because you're legally responsible for what is transmitted on that phone.

That would solve this sexting thing pretty quick, dont you think? At least, fewer parents would be giving their 13 year old cell phones, which is a good think cause Im pretty sick of listening to teenie-boppers drone on the phone about nothing important while Im on the metro

[Hubbs]

Probably unfair, but on the other something has to be done about the fact that the young generation is turning into a bunch of sluts and perverts.

Things that make me el-oh-el:

- This post.

- The fact that a few decades that are stereotypically defined with a "Leave it to Beaver" mentality when it comes to sex can somehow delude people into thinking that 13-year-olds haven't been banging for most of human history, and this is still considered normal in many areas of the world.

- Considering girls who don't lock in their own sexuality to be "sluts."

- Considering teenage males who get horny to be "perverts."

- Just to reiterate, this post.

[twa]

"'Sexting' Will Ruin Your Life"

Even for adults if ya wife catches ya.:chair:

[DCsportsfan53]

Things that make me el-oh-el:

- This post.

- The fact that a few decades that are stereotypically defined with a "Leave it to Beaver" mentality when it comes to sex can somehow delude people into thinking that 13-year-olds haven't been banging for most of human history, and this is still considered normal in many areas of the world.

- Considering girls who don't lock in their own sexuality to be "sluts."

- Considering teenage males who get horny to be "perverts."

- Just to reiterate, this post.


Seriously, am I the only one who couldn't give two ****s if high schoolers are sending naked pictures to each other? Big deal. They're :hump: too, and have been since the beginning of time. 200 years ago most 13 year old girls were preparing to or already were married. Has the species changed that much in the last 200 years that people of that age can't handle sex anymore?

[hyphenatedbren]

What I find so incredibly fascinating is the idea where at 13 (or 14,15, 16 or 17) a kid isn't mature enough to have sex but the same kid is mature enough to be tried as an adult and sent to prison for the rest of their natural life.

Logical inconsistency makes my brain hurt.

[Koala]

Things that make me el-oh-el:

- This post.

- The fact that a few decades that are stereotypically defined with a "Leave it to Beaver" mentality when it comes to sex can somehow delude people into thinking that 13-year-olds haven't been banging for most of human history, and this is still considered normal in many areas of the world.

- Considering girls who don't lock in their own sexuality to be "sluts."

- Considering teenage males who get horny to be "perverts."

- Just to reiterate, this post.

I dunno how normal 13 year-olds having sex is. Maybe I just wasnt cool, but at 13, I wasnt sending erect pictures of my penis to girls i wasnt even seeing. Hell, I wouldnt even do that now. Call me uptight.

The "leave it beaver" mentality you so quickly dismiss is the lifestyle that many Christians happen to believe is the way God would like them to live. But then, what would Jesus Christ know, Hubbs has this figured out.

Seem silly to you? Move to france. Then you can chase your pedophiic tendencies all you want, and still be Foreign Minister

Way to **** on people for umm, having sexual morality and I dunno, being concerned with the sexualization of our youth.

I hope you remember this when your thirteen old daughter is sucking off three guys in the closet.

[mcsluggo]

I dunno how normal 13 year-olds having sex is. Maybe I just wasnt cool, but at 13, I wasnt sending erect pictures of my penis to girls i wasnt even seeing. Hell, I wouldnt even do that now. Call me uptight.

The "leave it beaver" mentality you so quickly dismiss is the lifestyle that many Christians happen to believe is the way God would like them to live. But then, what would Jesus Christ know, Hubbs has this figured out.

Seem silly to you? Move to france. Then you can chase your pedophiic tendencies all you want, and still be Foreign Minister

Way to **** on people for umm, having sexual morality and I dunno, being concerned with the sexualization of our youth.

I hope you remember this when your thirteen old daughter is sucking off three guys in the closet.

you kinda sound like a dick in this post. no?

[Koala]

you kinda sound like a dick in this post. no?

Probably, but I think I made my point. Or if, you would prefer, I can do it in a wordier way:

Granted, young teens being horny and wanting to have sex does not make them abnormal. Its simply biology. And also granted, there are some areas in the world where culturally, women are expected to be sexually active at earlier ages, due to eariler marriage, women being stuck in a more traditional role, etc.

However, in America, thats not quite the case. In general, teens being sexually active and having children is something that most people would want to discourage. Especially parents of said teens.

The reason for this is cultural. Fathers want their daughters to live a more modern existence, educated and in control of their own lives. It might be normal to be having kids at the age of 13 in certain parts of the world, especially parts where women dont have the options they do here.

But this isnt Saudi Arabia, we want our daughters educated and with options -- not as housewives whose whole existence is centered around having children (unless thats what they honestly want to be). And we dont want our sons being fathers before they're financially ready and mentally mature enough for the rigors of fatherhood. Else you end up with a lot of single teenage mothers. And that is clearly a problem.

Therefore, we seek to delay the age where our daughters are sexually active and putting themselves at risk for pregnancy. We'd like them to get a college degree first, but we'll mostly settle if they wait until they graduate high school, i.e. the legal age of 18 years old.

The only way this works is by preaching control and fighting the good fight as much as possible. It doesnt matter if your teenage kids think about sex, what matters is making sure they're not DOING it, and doing whatever it takes to beg, plead, and scare them into waiting until their mental maturity matches their physical maturity. What distinguishes "sluts and perverts" from the rest of us, is ACTION. Sure, every normal man in america could imagine an xxx-rated scenario involving the girls lockeroom, but if you go into a HS girls locker room and oogle, you're a pervert. Sure, every normal woman in america can look at a basketball team and love to do all of them. But if she does it, she's a slut. Discouraging acting upon sexual urges is the key.

Eventually, your kids are going to be sexually active, but if you can somehow parent your way into convincing them to wait, then youve done a good job.

But if you take a lax view to sexual morality yourself, it will probably filter to your kids, and theyll be putting themselves at risk for early pregnacny or STDs or ending up in porn. So, therefore, I and most other people would object the lax view of sexual morality when it comes to teens, annd I do think as a SOCIETY we should deliver a unified message of responsibiltiy in the area of sexuality. And if you dont, your daughter might end up a single mother on a stripper pole, and everyone accepts that as perfectly normal and unproblematic.

So, in summation, discouraging sexuality in minors is and should be a major societal goal. And if you dont like, wait till you have kids, or just realize your tax dollars are probably disappearing into some single mother on welfare's pockets right now.

[Hubbs]

I dunno how normal 13 year-olds having sex is. Maybe I just wasnt cool, but at 13, I wasnt sending erect pictures of my penis to girls i wasnt even seeing. Hell, I wouldnt even do that now. Call me uptight.

The "leave it beaver" mentality you so quickly dismiss is the lifestyle that many Christians happen to believe is the way God would like them to live. But then, what would Jesus Christ know, Hubbs has this figured out.

Seem silly to you? Move to france. Then you can chase your pedophiic tendencies all you want, and still be Foreign Minister

Way to **** on people for umm, having sexual morality and I dunno, being concerned with the sexualization of our youth.

I hope you remember this when your thirteen old daughter is sucking off three guys in the closet.

Oh, Koala, you make me chuckle.

The guy who sent the pics wasn't 13. He was 18.

Jesus has nothing to do with what I said - it's completely factual that sexual activity in early teenage years is the norm for humanity, not the crazy exception that's just popped up since the debut of MTV.

Not sure where I displayed "pedophilic tendencies," but, hey, if lashing out makes you feel better, go right ahead, I'm sure I'll get a few LOLs out of it.

You're missing the point. I was ****ting on people who think that modern times really are some sort of outlier when it comes to the "sexualization of our youth."

As for my hypothetical daughter, if I found out she did that, I'm sure I would blame some guy on a message board.

[skinfan13]

This kind of bull**** makes me absolutely hopping mad. no it makes me furious!!!

How on earth is this fair or justice? we need to reform just how we define a sexual predator in this country. I can say without a shred of doubt that this kids life, his whole life, is ruined from one stupid mistake he made. :doh:

and this Pat person deserves to be taken advantage of by a real sexual predator so he understands the difference between youthful idiocy and actual sexual perversion and crime.

[Destino]

But if you take a lax view to sexual morality yourself, it will probably filter to your kids, and theyll be putting themselves at risk for early pregnacny or STDs or ending up in porn. So, therefore, I and most other people would object the lax view of sexual morality when it comes to teens, annd I do think as a SOCIETY we should deliver a unified message of responsibiltiy in the area of sexuality. And if you dont, your daughter might end up a single mother on a stripper pole, and everyone accepts that as perfectly normal and unproblematic.
So your means of delivering a message of responsible parenting is by using laws intended to fight pedophiles to ruin the lives of young people? What I see is a bunch of irresponsible lazy *******s that are willing to ruin the lives of others instead of taking an active role in the lives of their own children. Your child shouldn't be texting images without you knowing it, there are tools. Your child should be texting without you knowing with whom and about what if you don't choose to allow it.

But hey, that's hard and your kid would get mad at you. Better to sit back and do nothing and prove what a moral Christian you are by stomping your feet and grabbing some pitchforks and torches when bad parenting leads to easily predictable results.

[Califan007]

So let’s spend a moment in the real world (which none of these adults seem to inhabit). Which is likely to hurt this 14-year-old girl more—seeing a 2-square-inch photo of a friend’s erect penis, or being the reason that this friend will spend time in jail and decades as a registered sex offender?
How the HELL is she the reason he sent the pic of his noodle to her through his cell phone? lol :doh:...HE ALONE is the reason he sent it. Jeebus.

[skinfan13]

How the HELL is she the reason he sent the pic of his noodle to her through his cell phone? lol :doh:...HE ALONE is the reason he sent it. Jeebus.If I were in her shoes, or if I were in a similar situation I would certainly feel very guilty.

I think he's saying she will feel like she is the reason, not that cosmically speaking she actually is the reason.

[ACW]

According to the link she asked him for the pic.

[twa]

According to the link she asked him for the pic.

Send me a $1,000 dollars:)

[Destino]

How the HELL is she the reason he sent the pic of his noodle to her through his cell phone? lol :doh:...HE ALONE is the reason he sent it. Jeebus.
I think it's pretty standard to feel guilty if a friend is hurt by something you ask them to do.

Man with friends like this guy...

[stickyshooZ]

According to the link she asked him for the pic.
Doesn't matter. Under the law, she isn't old enough to rationally make those kinds of decisions.

I do think the punishment is overboard, but I also think kids need to be better educated about what the potential consequences are for stupid stuff like this. The 18 year old should clearly know better, even if he thought it was okay just because she asked.

[ACW]

Doesn't matter. Under the law, she isn't old enough to rationally make those kinds of decisions.

I do think the punishment is overboard, but I also think kids need to be better educated about what the potential consequences are for stupid stuff like this. The 18 year old should clearly know better, even if he thought it was okay just because she asked.Maybe, but a LIFETIME AS A SEX OFFENDER??????????

[Special K]

First of all, I think it's ridiculous that anyone would blame this girl, say she is the reason, or even say she should feel guilty for an 18 y/o boy sending a picture of his penis to her over his cell phone.

He's 18. He knows better than to do that. Come on.

Now, if you want to talk about whether the punishment fits the crime, fine. I think kids and teenagers should be punished for this type of behavior. However, I do not feel that placing an 18 y/o on a lifelong sex offender list is the correct form of punishment.

[SpringfieldSkins]

The only real problem I see here is that an 18 year old boy is sending a 14 year old girl pictures. This would qualify for statutory rape, minus the whole rape part.


Other than that, I see no problem with the whole sexting thing. What is the difference between that and say, phone sex? Is it that pictures are worth a thousand words?

[DCsportsfan53]

I think kids and teenagers should be punished for this type of behavior.


I would argue that, as far as punishment from the state is concerned, there should be none. This is a parental matter as far as I'm concerned.

[Special K]

The only real problem I see here is that an 18 year old boy is sending a 14 year old girl pictures. This would qualify for statutory rape, minus the whole rape part.
Yeah, that's why I think there should be some sort of punishment involved here...but being placed on a lifelong sex-offender list is certainly overkill IMO.



Other than that, I see no problem with the whole sexting thing. What is the difference between that and say, phone sex? Is it that pictures are worth a thousand words?
Agreed. If people are stupid enough to send naked pictures of themselves to others, they should be able to...they just shouldn't be surprised when the pics get out and they are massively embarrassed or lose a job or whatever else might happen.

And if kids send these to each other, I don't think that's a crime (although when 18 y/o's are sending this to younger children, yeah, that's a crime). I just think it's indicative of parents really not being involved in their childrens' lives. It's not too difficult to have some control over your 13 y/o's cell phone use...

[twa]

The only real problem I see here is that an 18 year old boy is sending a 14 year old girl pictures. This would qualify for statutory rape, minus the whole rape part.


Other than that, I see no problem with the whole sexting thing. What is the difference between that and say, phone sex? Is it that pictures are worth a thousand words?

As in the case with the minor it depends on who you are sexting with(and of course content if illegal)

I can tell ya my son's wife was not amused at his sexting from a old girlfriend.

You could even say she had a problem with it

[Special K]

I would argue that, as far as punishment from the state is concerned, there should be none. This is a parental matter as far as I'm concerned. I would agree with this if the parties involved are minors. If they are minors, I would agree this is a parental issue or at most, a school issue.

However, if there are adults 18 and over involved, then yes, I think that is a crime and should be punished as such...although probably not lifelong status on a sex offender list (particularly if it's a relatively young adult - clearly discretion should be used in those cases).

[twa]

I would argue that, as far as punishment from the state is concerned, there should be none. This is a parental matter as far as I'm concerned.

And if the eighteen yr olds parents didn't punish him?

What if it continued against the parents wishes?
I agree it should be a parental matter,but too many have punted on their responsibility.

[SpringfieldSkins]

Personally, if I had a 14 year old kid, they wouldn't have a cell phone. By the time I have a 14 year old kid, we will probably be way beyond this and have much more difficult things to deal with.

[Special K]

Personally, if I had a 14 year old kid, they wouldn't have a cell phone. Exactly. My kid ain't getting a freaking cell until until s/he starts driving. That was the deal with all the kids in my fam., and incredibly, we all lived, GASP! :laugh:

[SpringfieldSkins]

Exactly. My kid ain't getting a freaking cell until until s/he starts driving. That was the deal with all the kids in my fam., and incredibly, we all lived, GASP! :laugh:

I'm thinking more like, you get a cell phone when you can afford to pay for it yourself. That way, not only do they stay out of sexting trouble, but they learn the responsibility of paying a bill on time. :)

[Special K]

I'm thinking more like, you get a cell phone when you can afford to pay for it yourself. That way, not only do they stay out of sexting trouble, but they learn the responsibility of paying a bill on time. :) Well, that's a good idea too. Pretty sure that's what my husband will be saying. However, I tend to be a bit of a worrier and won't be able to sleep if I have one of my kids out there on the roads without a cell phone to call for help if something ever happened. They'll definitely have to be working and contribute to the costs of the cell phone, but as a worried mommy, they'll definitely have a phone.

Use of the phone, as well as any computer my kid has or is in our home, will certainly be closely monitored...none of this sexting crap. It's a bit disconcerting, and really sad as far as I'm concerned, how many parents these days are just less and less involved in their kids' lives....

[SpringfieldSkins]

Well, that's a good idea too. Pretty sure that's what my husband will be saying. However, I tend to be a bit of a worrier and won't be able to sleep if I have one of my kids out there on the roads without a cell phone to call for help if something ever happened. They'll definitely have to be working and contribute to the costs of the cell phone, but as a worried mommy, they'll definitely have a phone.

Use of the phone, as well as any computer my kid has or is in our home, will certainly be closely monitored...none of this sexting crap. It's a bit disconcerting, and really sad as far as I'm concerned, how many parents these days are just less and less involved in their kids' lives....

I understand where you are coming from. As [cheap and] easy as it is to get your kid on a cell phone plan these days, it almost doesn't make sense to get them one. The added bit of security could put your mind at ease.


The thing is, kids in general know a hell of a lot more about technology than their parents, especially emerging technology. It's certainly possible that no matter how well you try and monitor your (in general) kids computer, cell phone or what ever technology may be out there usage, they will find a way to get around it.

I know that I was raised fairly well. If I ever wanted to experience some nefarious activities, I was sure I could make it sure I got caught (and I hardly ever did).


All that said, there is a difference between being a good, well minded parent and being a truly overbearing parent. Kids do need their freedom.

[Destino]

Folks it's not about denying children access to technology. It's about setting their expectations correctly and monitoring their use.

- No computer in their rooms
- Knowledge by them that key loggers are in place and they are being spied on.
- Phone with GPS location turned on.
- Knowledge that their texts and calls will be reviewed by me.

Will your kids be mad? Sure, and? They are children for crying out loud there should be no expectation of privacy until they are old enough to merit it. This will immediately stop the things in this thread from happening.

[Special K]

All that said, there is a difference between being a good, well minded parent and being a truly overbearing parent. Kids do need their freedom. Definitely agree with that. I don't plan on being overbearing at all, my husband and I plan on setting down some rules and expectations for them and making them aware of the fact that should they deviate from those expectations, there's going to be some serious punishment involved. :D

I honestly don't think that's overbearing at all...I think that's being a responsible parent. Kiddies might yell and complain, but I think they do need structure in their formative years. I think a lot of parents let give their kids too much "freedom" which can help lead to bad behavior. Obviously even the best parents have kids who do crazy crap, but I think parental univolvement certainly doesn't lend itself better behavior in children and young teenagers. :2cents:

Clearly, I'm not a parent yet, but those are just my thoughts and how I plan on approaching things when the day someday comes to be blessed with kids :)



Folks it's not about denying children access to technology. It's about setting their expectations correctly and monitoring their use.

I definitely agree with this. My opinions about denying access to technology like cell phones simply have more to do with the fact that I do not believe kids "need" a frickin cell phone at a young age. Seriously, I think I am going to have to raise my kids out in the back country or something b/c I'd prefer to have my kids focusing on other things than texting or computer games or nintendos or PS3's or whatever the heck they're called these days. I was babysitting my 2 and a half y/o niece today and asked her what she wanted for Christmas and the kid told me she wanted an IPOD. I about fell off my chair with that response:laugh:

[Destino]

I definitely agree with this. My opinions about denying access to technology like cell phones simply have more to do with the fact that I do not believe kids "need" a frickin cell phone at a young age. Seriously, I think I am going to have to raise my kids out in the back country or something b/c I'd prefer to have my kids focusing on other things than texting or computer games or nintendos or PS3's or whatever the heck they're called these days. I was babysitting my 2 and a half y/o niece today and asked her what she wanted for Christmas and the kid told me she wanted an IPOD. I about fell off my chair with that response:laugh:

More power to you. Bottom line is you have to raise them how you think it best. I know people that have found success both with and without technology. I only posted that to give parents a bit of advice.

and now for more of it:
Parents just have to accept that communication isn't what it used to be and that their way of doing things is inferior to the new way. You may like it or prefer it but there is no question that it is in all ways inferior. People are more connected to each other these days than ever before. Parents have to learn the new ways because progress won't stop for them and the only way to police their children is by being tech savvy. Anything less and kids will get around your attempts at monitoring them easily. They will literally grow up with computers and know how to use them completely, if parents don't they are asking for trouble.

Embrace it and minimize it's hold on them the best way available: sports. Enroll them in everything to tire the little bastards out. :) That's what all my friends do. The down side is that you are driving them to practice or games every day but the upside is they require a lot less policing.

[stickyshooZ]

I find it kind of interesting how kids that aren't even 10 own cell phones and are texting/calling all day. Geez, I didn't even own a cell phone until I was maybe 20 years old. Times are changin'.

[Special K]

Embrace it and minimize it's hold on them the best way available: sports. Enroll them in everything to tire the little bastards out. :) That's what all my friends do. The down side is that you are driving them to practice or games every day but the upside is they require a lot less policing. This is pretty much what my parents did with my siblings and I (not that that made us perfect kids or anything like that at all) and it's what my husband I plan on doing with our little beavises :D