Golf and Rugby added to Olympics

[Cassow]

Golf, rugby added for 2016 and 2020
Associated Press
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=4545111

COPENHAGEN -- After more than a century on the sidelines, golf will return to the Olympics at the Summer Games in Rio de Janeiro. Rugby, last played in 1924, is coming back as well.Both were reinstated for the 2016 and 2020 games after a vote Friday by the International Olympic Committee.
The vote also was a victory for Jacques Rogge, the IOC president who was re-elected to a final four-year term hours earlier. The 67-year-old Belgian, the president since 2001, was the only candidate.
"Time will show your decision [on the new sports] was very wise," Rogge said.
Each sport received majority support in separate votes after leading athletes and officials from both camps gave presentations, including a taped video message from Tiger Woods (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/players/profile?playerId=462) and other top pros. Woods has indicated he would play in the Olympics if golf were accepted for 2016."


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About time. I'm really excited to see Rugby in the olympics. Hopefully this goes a long way to making the sport popular in the US. How we had ballroom dancing in the olympics and not rugby for so long is beyond me.

I'm a little mixed on the golf though. I mean I'll enjoy watching it, but dont we see enough golf thoughtout the year already? I tend to associate the gold medal with the best in each sport--so what happens if Tiger or Phil gets knocked off, and someone ranked #55 in the world ends up winning? Wouldn't that cheapen it a little?

Then again, there's the whole playing for your country thing...so if KJ Choi or someone wins and all of Korea goes ape****, I could see it being pretty cool.

[MattFancy]

I dont like Golf in the Olympics. It's already an international event each week. Aren't we pretty much going to see the same guys that we see already play in the Olympics? Bring back baseball!

[GoSkins561]

Rugby deserves to be in the Olympics, it is one of the most physically challenging sports there is. I know they tried 7's two olympics ago, they should have 15's and 7's.

[skinfan13]

I dont like Golf in the Olympics. It's already an international event each week. Aren't we pretty much going to see the same guys that we see already play in the Olympics? Bring back baseball! +1, I'm still mad that they got rid of baseball :mad:

just because the US, Japan, and Cuba own at baseball doesn't mean we should have gotten rid of it. How many other countries completely dominate in certain sports??

[JMS]

Rugby deserves to be in the Olympics, it is one of the most physically challenging sports there is. I know they tried 7's two olympics ago, they should have 15's and 7's.


They canned Rugby after the first few games because America which had no Rugby tradition dominated. America took an ivy league University football team over to the games who learned the rules of Rugby on the ship over to Europe and won all their matches. They used football tackling techniques and horrified the european compeditors...

I agree Rugby has since grown as a sport and today is a very popular and mature sport. Nobody is going to Horrify the Europeans, New Zealanders, Australians, or South Africans with hard hitting play today.

I also think it will be good because it will put more focus on the state of American play. America has the athletes, but not the game intelligence to play with the big boys of the sport. More focus will create more incentive to improve coaching and the infrastructure of the sport where America still lags behind elite Rugby countries.

I agree Baseball should be in the Olympics. It's popular enough globally to be there. Rugby however is more popular than baseball, and hasn't been in the Olympics for nearly 80 years.

[jrockster21]

They canned Rugby after the first few games because America which had no Rugby tradition dominated. America took an ivy league University football team over to the games who learned the rules of Rugby on the ship over to Europe and won all their matches. They used football tackling techniques and horrified the european compeditors...

"Two Olympics ago?" I don't think so...Rugby has been in American colleges for several decades now, especially out West.

7s is more about speed than anything...so the US has a really good shot at winning.

[zoony]

They canned Rugby after the first few games because America which had no Rugby tradition dominated. America took an ivy league University football team over to the games who learned the rules of Rugby on the ship over to Europe and won all their matches. They used football tackling techniques and horrified the european compeditors...


Is that really true? Hilarious :hysterical:

[zoony]

As for the OP, call me a fuddy-duddy, but I think the Olympic should stick to amateur sports.

When they include things like baseball or golf or basketball it's a turnoff. I want to tune in to see things like curling and diving and cycling.

...

[thehogs]

it was 1920 and 1924 when the US won. In both tournaments interest was minimal with just the US and France in 1920 and US/France and Romania in '24. The lack of interest at a time when other sports were increasing in competitors meant it was dropped. There was a punch up at the end of the '24 final but I wouldnt call that shocking for rugby although its put forward as one reason for it being dropped. More important a big rubgy fan, Baron de Courbetin (the originator of the Olympics) had retired so giving people a chance to drop what was a sport with little apparent interest.

7's would be good rather than the 15's and people that dont follow 7's much will be surprised at just how brilliant at 7's countries such as Fiji are compared to the obvious Australia/England/All Blacks/South Africa powerhouse at 15's.

The golf sucks imho.

Historical footnote: 7's was invented in the Scottish southern Borders area as a way of having big local tournaments that could be run quickly with exciting games without the demands of having to put together full strength teams.

[GoSkins561]

"Two Olympics ago?" I don't think so...Rugby has been in American colleges for several decades now, especially out West.

7s is more about speed than anything...so the US has a really good shot at winning.

Our flyhalf for our college squad was capped twice for the US Eagles 7 's squad. In the late 90's he went to Fiji and New Zealand and they pretty much got whipped.

A quick off subject story, when he was in Fiji, his roomate got a phone call in the middle of the night saying " I scored against the all blacks, I am going to buy myself a b.j."

JMS, I am pretty sure the US has always had the snot kicked out of them in Rugby, do you have a link for your story?

nevermind, I found it, thanks for the interesting tid bits. I guess if would have stuck with the sport we could have been a force.

[JMS]

"Two Olympics ago?" I don't think so...Rugby has been in American colleges for several decades now, especially out West.

7s is more about speed than anything...so the US has a really good shot at winning.

7s isn't Rugby, 7s was an exposition in the Olypics 8 years ago, not Rugby. Rugby hasn't beein in the Olypics since the 1924. 7s isn't Ruby, like handball isn't tennis.

Americans have also been playing Rugby since the 1960's right here in DC. The Washington Rugby Football Club was established in 1963, and has coached a number of highschool teams in the area for decades.

Also it's not that 7s is more about speed and athletism than 15s that gives Americans a chance in 7s where they have none in 15s. It's that 7s requires less skills. It's a simpler game, which allows us to compete. In 15s Amerca is like the Soviet Union was in basketball in the 60's. We have the horses, just not the know how to compete.

We simple don't do the little things in modern day rugby to compete with the greatest Rugby Nations.

But in the 1920's the little things didn't matter as much as hitting. Rugby 15s was in the 1900-1908-1920 and 1924 games. Not as an exposition, but as an Olympic Sport. The United States shocked the Rugby World and won gold in 1920 and 1924.. and remains the ruleling Olympic champions.

Especially in 1924 we horrified the competition and that's why Rugby got excluded from the Olypics. We took over a side of players which the U.S. Olympic comittee refused to fund. A side of mostly footballers, who learned the game of Rugby on the boat over to Europe, and who got soundly defeated in test matches before the Olypics. The side ultimately knocked the snott out of the European champion French in front of 50,000 screaming frenchmen just outside of Paris to take gold. This was the second time we crushed the European Champion French team in back to back Olypics, and this time we did it with a team most of whom had never played the game only a few months prior to the match.

That's how Rugby got banished from the games. It's your classic horror story.



The final: USA vs. France ( 1924)

In the days leading up to the final, the U.S. rugby players were insulted and sometimes even spat upon if they dared venture outside their hotel.
http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/images/usa_france_captains.jpg

http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/images/usa_france_names.jpg
The final was played at Colombes stadium, Paris on 18 May 1924 before 50,000 screeching, drunken Frenchmen who were oblivious to the FOC's public appeal for calm. Paris bookmakers set the odds at twenty to one; the points spread was twenty and no wonder: The French national rugby team was one of the greatest ever assembled, and included on its roster the legendary Adolphe Juarraguy, said to be the fastest rugby player alive. By comparison, most of the American players hadn't touched a rugby ball until six months earlier. The mob packing Colombes Stadium fully expected an easy gold medal for France to open the Paris Olympic Games.
http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/images/1924_old_postcard.jpg
Colombes stadium, Paris
As the team entered the stadium from a tunnel, they noted that the Olympic officials had elected to install a tall wire fence around the stadium to restrain the crowd. The American side wore white uniforms, blue belts, and white stockings hooped with red and blue. An American shield was sewed to the front of their jumpers. Wearing white shorts and blue stockings, the French took the field in their famous blue jumper badged with a ****. The American captain was Colby "Babe" Slater, and his French counterpart was Rene Lasserre. The US chose 45 minute halves, betting that their fitness and stamina would outlast the French. Sam Freethy agreed to 90 minutes over French protests and started the match.

France intended to take its revenge (for the 1920 Olypic defeat), but from the kickoff it was obvious the American players intended to avenge their treatment by the French(in this Olypics). Two minutes after the opening whistle, Adolphe Juarraguy received a pass on the wing, and the crowd roared as its hero set off for the American line. But from out of nowhere came "Lefty" Rogers, Stanford's basketball captain, who leveled the famed Frenchman with a tooth-rattling tackle.
On the next play Juarraguy's stride was broken by another Rogers tackle. Then it was the turn of All-American and Rhodes Scholar Alan Valentine who had sprinted the width of the field to hurl his 210-lb bulk into the off-balance Juarraguy. "And that was the end of him," says Charlie Doe. Oblivious even to the sound of the howling crowd, Juarraguy was carted off the field bleeding, "like a sack of potatoes," according to Doe.
http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/images/1924final.jpgUSA vs. France (Credit: IOC/Olympic Museum collections) At halftime the score was only 3-0 in the USA's favor, but as team manager Sam Goodman put it, they had their opponents "buffaloed." The French players were devastated by the American football-style tackling, though as they admitted after the game, the hits were within the rules of the game.
In the second half the French defense crumbled in the wake of a series of ferocious American attacks. "Our men, " wrote Andre Glarner of the Exelsior newspaper, "too frail and hesitant, too fragile, could not hold up before the admirable athletes before them." The Americans, from Stanford University, scored five tries, (Farrish(2), Patrick, Rogers and Manelli), with a conversion by Doe. Gallau scored the lone French try.
With a humiliating French defeat imminent, the crowd began earning its reputation for thuggery (many foreign teams refused to play in Paris because of French rugby hooliganism at that time). American supporters were being beaten up in the stands, and their bodies passed down to the field to be collected by ambulances.
"I thought they were dead," says Norman Cleaveland. "We were sure it was only a matter of time before they got their hands on us." The match finished in uproar, when Gideon Nelson, one of the reserves, was flattened by a walking stick.
When the final whistle blew, the score was 17-3, and the French crowd was hysterical.
"They were throwing bottles and rocks and clawing at us through the fence, recalls Cleaveland. "We had no idea what was going to happen."
Charlie Doe saw the band pick up their instruments and conductor waving his baton, but, like his teammates, he couldn't hear a single note because of the cacophony of booing and catcalls.
"Then we saw the Stars and Stripes being raised and realized they were playing the Star Spangled Banner," says Doe. "We had completely forgotten about the medal ceremony which took place in front of tens of thousands of people who wanted to rip us to shreds." After the medal ceremony, the American rugby players were escorted to their locker room by dozens of gendarmes.
The attitude of the French press changed dramatically after their national team's routing. In the interest of the remainder of the Games, French journalists began to portray the American players as heroes. "The American team is comprised of true athletes, all fast, strong, energetic, and possessing athletic qualities of which we are rarely aware in France," wrote Glarner of the Exelsior.
The fickle French public responded in kind. "When you're a hero in Paris, that's something! All we had to do was walk in to a bar or restaurant and there would be free drinks all around," says Norman Cleaveland.

The American victory, which marked rugby's last appearance as an Olympic sport, was a feat then, called by UP sports Editor Henry J. Farrell "the brightest entry scored on all the pages of American international sports records."
http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/images/1924_us_xv.jpgThe Rugby heroes returned to the Bay Area without much fanfare. Despite the USA's spectacular 1924 Olympic rugby victory, rugby again slipped back into obscurity in the U.S. That astonishes modern observers, but as Charlie Doe points out, the Olympics were "not such a big deal" before the advent of television coverage, which today can propel an obscure sport like Olympic hockey into the public consciousness. "Our victory in '24 made the hockey win against the Soviets look like an everyday occurrence," says Doe. "If we had that kind of coverage rugby might be the great American pastime today."



http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/olympics.htm

[TheDoyler23]

Rugby in the Olympics, but not baseball?

Stupid.

[Cassow]

I also think it will be good because it will put more focus on the state of American play. America has the athletes, but not the game intelligence to play with the big boys of the sport. More focus will create more incentive to improve coaching and the infrastructure of the sport where America still lags behind elite Rugby countries.


I agree we don't have the game intelligence, which is most important, but we also dont have the athletes either. The only reason we have college rugby in the US is because not everyone can make the football team. Same reason why we suck at boxing and soccer....the best athletes choose to play other sports. Until that starts to change, it's going to be hard to compete with the powerhouses.

[Cassow]

Rugby in the Olympics, but not baseball?

Stupid.

The Rugby WC is the 3rd most watched sports event in the world.

1) FIFA WC
2) Olympics
3) Rugby

[JMS]

I agree we don't have the game intelligence, which is most important, but we also dont have the athletes either. The only reason we have college rugby in the US is because not everyone can make the football team. Same reason why we suck at boxing and soccer....the best athletes choose to play other sports. Until that starts to change, it's going to be hard to compete with the powerhouses.

I disagree. One of the most dominant Rugby nations over the last two decades has been New Zealand (Population 4 million). We've nearly got more people plaing Rugby in the United States than they have people in New Zealand.

If you put the US National Eagles up against any country athletically I don't think we would fair poorly. Fitness, agility, speed. I think we're right there. We've been right there for decades. Our problem is still coaching at the University and Club side levels and how that's reflected at the national level.

An illistration of this is how well we've faired in 7s play. When the game is simplified our teams athletically can compete with anybody. It's in 15s when rucking, mauling and what happens after tackles where Americans loose compeditively with the Rugby elites.

[JMS]

The Rugby WC is the 3rd most watched sports event in the world.

1) FIFA WC
2) Olympics
3) Rugby

Rugby is far more popular across the world than Baseball. I don't think anybody can argue that. But that doesn't mean baseball shouldn't be included in the Olypics. When Tommy Lasorda took a handful of minor league players and captured the gold medel back in 2000 Sydney games over favored Cuba it was one of the great moments in Olypics history. It was among the best moments of the entire olypics in my book.

[Special K]

I'm still majorly butt-hurt they removed softball and baseball, but mainly softball! Personally, I think golf in the Olympics is stupid.

[youngestson]

Rugby is far more popular across the world than Baseball. I don't think anybody can argue that. But that doesn't mean baseball shouldn't be included in the Olypics. When Tommy Lasorda took a handful of minor league players and captured the gold medel back in 2000 Sydney games over favored Cuba it was one of the great moments in Olypics history. It was among the best moments of the entire olypics in my book.


And, like rugby one of the reasons the sport was tossed out of the games. If Cuba had beaten the U.S. there is no doubt baseball would still be an Olympic sport.

[JMS]

I'm still majorly butt-hurt they removed softball and baseball, but mainly softball! Personally, I think golf in the Olympics is stupid.

Actually it's brilliant from a business perspective. It's just we don't see the Olympics as the business they've become. They want the biggest TV audience they can get because that's what feeds their coffers. Adding Golf with an athlete with the draw of a tiger woods is brilliant and will give the TV network which lands the games that much more cant miss TV....

Same reason the IOC lobbied the US to admit the NBA pro's into the games to face off against all the other professional athletes in the games. Because it made for higher TV ratings and more interest in the games. Why did the Olympic comittee give the summer games to China a country with a systemic human rights abuse record, cause they also represent the largest emerging market for the games.

It's all about king coin.

[JMS]

And, like rugby one of the reasons the sport was tossed out of the games. If Cuba had beaten the U.S. there is no doubt baseball would still be an Olympic sport.

Maybe.... I think that the United States could compete against the best talent from across asia and south and central America without any elite players on the team from our two best leagues.. ( University or Pros) Showed the lack of competition in any future games.

So that's similar to the 1924 olympics and Rugby. But I think the 1924 games had the added insult to the Europeans in that the Americans flaunted their rules, were just learning the game, and the match was just ugly from a sportsman perspective; Things which can't be said of the Baseball matchup.

[Special K]

It's all about king coin. Yeah, I'm very well aware of how the Olympics works. As my husband's gotten more deeply involved in international greco wrestling, I've gotten to see a lot more how the IOC, USA wrestling, and a bunch of these organizations work.

I have to say, the longer he wrestles and the more I see, I find myself having less and less respect not only for the Olympics but for a lot of these international sports. The way the rules are changed to favor certain teams or countries, the way athletes are treated, the commercialization of these competitions, everything...I think it's all crap. Of course I'm going to support my husband in his wrestling, but I really think the IOC is full of BS and the spirit of the games certainly has diminished in the short time I've been alive. I definitely don't look at the Olympics or any of these international competitions with the awe I did as a kid, it's kinda depressing.

[Corcaigh]

It's a shame that they're doing rugby sevens, but that might make upsets easier and someone outside of the top half a dozen teams compete.

But it's a bit like comparing the NFL with a game of flag football.

[JMS]

but I really think the IOC is full of BS and the spirit of the games certainly has diminished in the short time I've been alive. I definitely don't look at the Olympics or any of these international competitions with the awe I did as a kid, it's kinda depressing.


Yeah, you are right the IOC is definitely a self serving snake pit. But think of this. You know how well American women do against everybody else in the world in the olypics. Swimming, Volleyball, Soccer, Softball etc....

What percentage of that sucess do you think has to do with title IX? We as a nation in 1972 decided to put equal dollars into highschool and college woman and mens sports. I personally believe that's why our women teams kick butt on everybody else in the world. Money's been the big difference. So maybe not all commercialization is bad after all...

I agree with you though, the politics involved in the Olypics is just beyond belief. It's a multi year all you can eat global buffet of butt kissing for the seleciton comitee. They're award means billions of dollars of economic stimulus for sucessful bidders and they milk every aspect of that power.

[Cassow]

I disagree. One of the most dominant Rugby nations over the last two decades has been New Zealand (Population 4 million). We've nearly got more people plaing Rugby in the United States than they have people in New Zealand.

If you put the US National Eagles up against any country athletically I don't think we would fair poorly. Fitness, agility, speed. I think we're right there. We've been right there for decades. Our problem is still coaching at the University and Club side levels and how that's reflected at the national level.

An illistration of this is how well we've faired in 7s play. When the game is simplified our teams athletically can compete with anybody. It's in 15s when rucking, mauling and what happens after tackles where Americans loose compeditively with the Rugby elites.

You make a good point, and are probably right...but the best athletes in NZ play rugby, and 99.9% of the athletes capable of playing professional rugby in the US, play football. Like I said, it's not the most important aspect, but having more talented players join at the collegiate levels and lower, instead of choosing other sports would only benefit.

Our problem is we basically field a team of amateurs. Most of the Eagles have other jobs besides rugby and don't play professionally overseas. It's hard to expect them to compete against other players who make a living playing the sport.

[Cassow]

Rugby is far more popular across the world than Baseball. I don't think anybody can argue that. But that doesn't mean baseball shouldn't be included in the Olypics. When Tommy Lasorda took a handful of minor league players and captured the gold medel back in 2000 Sydney games over favored Cuba it was one of the great moments in Olypics history. It was among the best moments of the entire olypics in my book.

Never said it shouldn't be included. I would rather have it in there instead of many of the other "sports"...incl golf. But, seeing as how the Olympics is a world-wide sporting event, I don't see how someone could argue it being included instead or ahead of Rugby.

[GoSkins561]

I disagree, 7's is Rugby, there is a scrum, there are rucks, there are line outs, all of the same rules apply.

The length of the game itself is a fraction of a 15's match, however it can only be played in a multi team tournament format which is probably why it was selected for the Olympics.

Playing seven minute halfs doesn't sound like much, but when everyone on the field is fast and all you do is sprint, you get worn out after a few matches. Basically, 7's takes all of the fat bastards out of the game that love smelling each others asses.

I have played seven 7's matches in a day, I would imagine a 15's tourney would take a hell of a lot longer even if they knocked the halfs down to 30 minutes. The olympics only last two weeks right? How could you fit a tournament in without eliminating lots of teams after a single loss.

[IHOPSkins]

...... The way the rules are changed to favor certain teams or countries, ........ Of course I'm going to support my husband in his wrestling, .......Could you give an example? unless it would get you in trouble

Also

Good luck to your husband!

[GoSkins561]

You make a good point, and are probably right...but the best athletes in NZ play rugby, and 99.9% of the athletes capable of playing professional rugby in the US, play football. Like I said, it's not the most important aspect, but having more talented players join at the collegiate levels and lower, instead of choosing other sports would only benefit.

Our problem is we basically field a team of amateurs. Most of the Eagles have other jobs besides rugby and don't play professionally overseas. It's hard to expect them to compete against other players who make a living playing the sport.

Yep, pretty much sums up rugby in the US, even the players on the "Super League" teams work other jobs. I would sum up rugby in the US as a companion sport that is played for fun.

[WARLORD1863]

Rugby was once part of the olympics I believe, glad that they're bringing it back. I'm not so sure about golf...

[Special K]

Good luck to your husband!
Thank-you :)



Could you give an example? unless it would get you in trouble Nah, don't think I'd get into trouble for it...we'll see though. ;) j/k. It's really complicated, but as a background, the international wrestling community hates America...like, an intense, seething hatred; they hate capitalism, they hate our way of life, they pretty much hate everything about us. :D So, naturally they want to see our wrestlers do poorly. Well, American wrestlers are renowned for their conditioning levels, they are pretty much the most highly-conditioned wrestlers in the world. They blow out of the gates and wrestle with extremely high intensity, that's what they train for as that's how our collegiate wrestling system is set up, and of course our wrestlers go through the collegiate system wrestling then on to "amateur" international competition, like worlds and olympics, etc. Well, wrestlers from other countries, while they train for intense matches, just are not up to par to the American conditioning standards primarily because the difference in the way our national wrestling infrastructures are set up.

Anyway, there are constantly changes and tweaks in the international rules, but in recent history, the changes in the rules have tended to not favor America...which isn't just a coincidence :2cents: One of the examples would be the removal of on-the-feet stalling calls. Essentially, this allows a guy to get in a quick score then just run around the mat, running away from his opponent the rest of the match...taking conditioning more out of the equation. It used to be that guys would get penalized for this type of stalling (and they do in American competition) and it would force guys to go hard the entire match, making conditioning a more important factor in a match, something that is obviously a strongsuit of American wrestlers. Anyway, taking out stalling calls like this definitely hurts the American wrestlers waaaaay more than any other country's wrestlers.

This is just one of the many examples of the political nature of wrestling, and really, all these sports. It's quite pathetic.

[Kosher Ham]

The most watched sports should just try to find sponsorship for international games and leave the olympics.

Might as well add hold-em poker to the olympics. Its a sport right ?