ESPN Special about the Colts leaving Baltimore

[HailSkins81]

It is on now. Pretty interesting. I was pretty young, and have little memory of what happened. The owner just had moving vans come in and moved them to Indy from under B-more's nose.

Well done program so far.

[SkinsBry]

I missed the first airing but I'll turn it on at 11. I was too young to remember what happened but I do remember the morning after they moved, watching TV and the Mayflower trucks leaving in the middle of the night.

[Perky72]

I was 12 and remember it being a big deal but not sure why. Remember feeling bad for the Colts fans.

Good docu, and I looove Levinson. I was surprised that Irsay had so many personal problems going on, family members dying and alcoholism. I hadn't really looked into any of that until tonight. It's great that the Ravens organization respected the band that much (part/most of the motivation was PR, but still a good thing to do), and that Irsay's wife helped them out with those stolen uniforms.

I still wish once Baltimore got the franchise the NFL would've stripped "Colts" as Indy's nickname, and their uniform so Baltimore could have everything back. Of course that would be unfair to Indy, but well, I wish they had anyway.

[Godfather151981]

In my case, my mom's family was from closer to DC (although with close Baltimore ties), and my dad's family was from north of Baltimore. So when I was a kid, I picked two team: the Skins and O's. DC didn't have baseball, and Baltimore didn't have football, so that worked out well for me. My dad was a huge Colt fan, and they ripped his heart out when they left. Now he follows the Skins because I do, but the BALTIMORE Colts are still his favorite team. While I was watching that program I could literally feel my heart being ripped out on behalf of those people. I always loved how the Baltimore Colt band stayed together over the years, but I had never heard that story of them playing on the steps of the statehouse. Speaking for myself, if Daniel Snyder or Peter Angelos ever pulled a stunt like Irsay, I'd personally stand in front of the moving vans to stop them from leaving. (And say what you will about Snyder and Angelos, but they're not public drunkards or anything close to how they portrayed Irsay.)

[Godfather151981]

I was 12 and remember it being a big deal but not sure why. Remember feeling bad for the Colts fans.

Good docu, and I looove Levinson. I was surprised that Irsay had so many personal problems going on, family members dying and alcoholism. I hadn't really looked into any of that until tonight. It's great that the Ravens organization respected the band that much (part/most of the motivation was PR, but still a good thing to do), and that Irsay's wife helped them out with those stolen uniforms.

I still wish once Baltimore got the franchise the NFL would've stripped "Colts" as Indy's nickname, and their uniform so Baltimore could have everything back. Of course that would be unfair to Indy, but well, I wish they had anyway.

I'm a bit sketchy on all of the details, but I believe that there was a lawsuit filed by the state of Maryland (basically a continuation of the eminent domain concept) that would have forced the Colts to return to Maryland. I'm not sure how it was settled, but ultimately I believe that Irsay said he would support the return of the NFL to Baltimore, and that he'd let Baltimore have the Colt name, traditions, etc. when/if Baltimore ever got another team. Ultimately, Irsay voted in favor of expansion to Charlotte and Jacksonville, and when Baltimore finally got the Ravens Jim Irsay offered the Colt name for something in the neighborhood of $50 million or something like that. I might be wrong, but that's just what I heard/remembered.

I root for the Ravens when they're not playing the Skins (which is most weeks), and most Raven fans with whom I speak say that they don't want the Colt name back. The Ravens of course have a Super Bowl title, and their own traditions and history in the city, and a lot of people want to continue that. But I suspect that deep down they'd probably rather have the Colts back, and it's understandable. Ultimately I think that the Ravens have much more of a "lineage" to the old Colts than do the new/current Colts. Obviously the Indianapolis Colts have since won a Super Bowl as well, so there's history for the name in Indianapolis as well. But I think that the name COLTS carries much more local clout in this region than it does in Indiana.

[RFKFedEx]

If you enjoyed this program you should read a book called:

"When the Colts Belonged to Baltimore" by Bill Gildea.

Gildea is a Baltimorean who grew up going to all of the Colts games in the 50s and 60s.

Gildea went on to pen for the Washington Post in the 80s and 90s during the Skins glory years. His story is a must read for any sportsfan in the DC area who can relate to nearby Bmore.

[Dan T.]

What an incredible film. It gets to the heart of what it means to be a fan. EVERY fan of the NFL should watch this. Levinson is a master storyteller, and limns out just how important the Colts were to the city of Baltimore and the collective identity of its people. And he does it with love, affection, and humor as a die hard fan himself.

I couldn't help but think of the current situation with the Redskins and dissatisfaction with the current ownership. But there really is no comparison. Irsay openly denigrated the people of Baltimore, lied to their faces, and betrayed them by stealing them away in the cover of night,


But the band persevered. By Levinson's telling, they deserve much credit for bringing the NFL back to Baltimore.

If you missed this show, do yourself a favor and watch a replay of it.

[RFKFedEx]

While I was watching that program I could literally feel my heart being ripped out on behalf of those people


Reading Gildea's book I had to fight back tears in the final chapter. That team meant so much more to that town than say the Cardinals to St. Louis or the Oilers to Houston.

[Dan T.]

Reading Gildea's book I had to fight back tears in the final chapter. That team meant so much more to that town than say the Cardinals to St. Louis or the Oilers to Houston.

Gildea was prominently featured in the film as one of the talking heads. I'll have to look for his book.

[Dan T.]

I still wish once Baltimore got the franchise the NFL would've stripped "Colts" as Indy's nickname, and their uniform so Baltimore could have everything back. Of course that would be unfair to Indy, but well, I wish they had anyway.

It would've been nice for Baltimore, but Irsay would have had to go along with it, and he seemed bitter and vindictive toward Baltimore by that point.

The NFL managed to do that for Cleveland, keeping the Browns name in the city even though the team moved to Baltimore. The film talks about how many in Baltimore felt real empathy for the people of Cleveland, taking their team from them, just as they suffered 12 years previously. And was it just coincidence that a couple of years before the Browns' move, the first NFL team to invite the teamless Colts' Marching Band to play at a halftime show was the Cleveland Browns?

[SkinsBry]

I'm watching the replay. This is really good.

My dad was a HUGE Colts fan. He's got a ball signed by that '58 team (though the autographs have really faded). I remember the tears in my dad's eyes that day just like those guys were talking about.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That was a really good film. ESPN's doing a good job with this 30 in 30 series.

[Gary Clark Fan]

great episode and for once i felt for colt fans. Am i wrong for wishing deep inside that danny would pack up the team and move this crap out to LA......of course another team would have to come but I am willing to give up a couple years of no redskins to be out from under the control of this ahole of my favorite franchise and a team I was once so proud of.

[Gary Clark Fan]

If you enjoyed this program you should read a book called:

"When the Colts Belonged to Baltimore" by Bill Gildea.

Gildea is a Baltimorean who grew up going to all of the Colts games in the 50s and 60s.

Gildea went on to pen for the Washington Post in the 80s and 90s during the Skins glory years. His story is a must read for any sportsfan in the DC area who can relate to nearby Bmore.

i got to check that out. thanks for the tip.

[Hubbs]

I love to trash talk with Baltimore fans, but this is one case that causes me to completely and utterly feel for them. I can't even imagine what it's like to have your team stolen from you under the cover of night. It's indefensible. It's one of the great tragedies to ever happen in professional sports.

I'm afraid this will happen to Buffalo soon, too.

[Godfather151981]

What an incredible film. It gets to the heart of what it means to be a fan. EVERY fan of the NFL should watch this. Levinson is a master storyteller, and limns out just how important the Colts were to the city of Baltimore and the collective identity of its people. And he does it with love, affection, and humor as a die hard fan himself.

I couldn't help but think of the current situation with the Redskins and dissatisfaction with the current ownership. But there really is no comparison. Irsay openly denigrated the people of Baltimore, lied to their faces, and betrayed them by stealing them away in the cover of night,


But the band persevered. By Levinson's telling, they deserve much credit for bringing the NFL back to Baltimore.

If you missed this show, do yourself a favor and watch a replay of it.

The difference is that the Skins have local ownership. In fact, all of the professional teams in the area have local ownership (Skins, Ravens, Nats, O's, Caps, Wizards). While business is still business, and if an owner feels he can make more money somewhere else he'll try to move, local ownership cuts down on the odds of a team moving signifigantly. I'll say this much about Snyder...I do believe that he's truly a fan, albeit a fan that likes money. So it's doubtful that he'd ever consider moving the team, because it would ruin the tradition of the Redskins. Baltimore tried in vain to do what Cleveland was able to do in 1995 when the Browns moved, although it was a much less organized effort. I'd like to think that if the Skins ever pulled a stunt like that for whatever reason Washington's reaction would be similar. We complain about the play of the team and we complain about the owner, but ultimately the Redskins are what makes DC tick.

[dockeryfan]

I didn't watch it, but Baltimore really screwed this one up. Irsay had been complaining for years about the facilities, and he was a cheap owner, but Baltimore forced his hand.

There were two bills in the state senate. One to buy the team for $40 mil and sell it back to investors. The other to begin eminent domain proceedings and take over the team as a public interest.

On March 27th 1984, the senate passed the eminent domain bill. Rather than wait for the House to pass it's version of the bill, Irsay made a bunch of phone calls and accepted a deal from Indianapolis, and moved the team in the middle of the night just a few hours later. The Mayflower trucks just started moving everything that night.

[RFKFedEx]

I didn't watch it, but Baltimore really screwed this one up. Irsay had been complaining for years about the facilities, and he was a cheap owner, but Baltimore forced his hand.


Another really good book is called "Field of Schemes". It documents NFL and MLB Stadium battles of the last 25 years.

The opening chapter really details each and every step of the Colts move. It changed my opinion on Irsay and the city of Baltimore. I don't really fault the politicians of MD or Baltimore for Irsay's business decision to go to another city that offered a brand new stadium for free.


I fault the Raiders for setting a precedent for teams to move w/ out a league vote. Nobody in the league wanted to stop Irsay for fear of anti-trust charges.

[Godfather151981]

I didn't watch it, but Baltimore really screwed this one up. Irsay had been complaining for years about the facilities, and he was a cheap owner, but Baltimore forced his hand.

There were two bills in the state senate. One to buy the team for $40 mil and sell it back to investors. The other to begin eminent domain proceedings and take over the team as a public interest.

On March 27th 1984, the senate passed the eminent domain bill. Rather than wait for the House to pass it's version of the bill, Irsay made a bunch of phone calls and accepted a deal from Indianapolis, and moved the team in the middle of the night just a few hours later. The Mayflower trucks just started moving everything that night.

Perhaps, but Irsay also held the city and the state of Maryland hostage for years with regard to moving the team. He knew that the team meant more to the city and it's people than the city and it's people meant to him. While Indianapolis gave him what he wanted (a stadium), the way the move happened should have always been in the backs of their minds in that Irsay probably would have done the same thing to Indy if he didn't get his way.

[Dan T.]

Levinson's love and nostalgia for the old Colts was clear in this show.

His movie Diner, an underrated classic, reflected that same love for the Colts. Remember the Colts quiz as a prerequisite for the marriage? The bridesmaids wore Colts colors. And the wedding music was the Colts fight song.

[RFKFedEx]

While Indianapolis gave him what he wanted (a stadium), the way the move happened should have always been in the backs of their minds in that Irsay probably would have done the same thing to Indy if he didn't get his way.

Which is why I would never totally rule out a move for the Redskins. I think it's unlikely and there are several other teams that would move before us.

However, lets say that in 10 years LA were still w/ out a team and they somehow offered any NFL owner a publicly financed, state of the art stadium for free. A stadium like the one Indi had waiting for Irsay in 1984, or the one Baltimore had blueprinted for Modell in 1995, Danny would have to weigh his options.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Levinson's love and nostalgia for the old Colts was clear in this show.

His movie Diner, an underrated classic, reflected that same love for the Colts. Remember the Colts quiz as a prerequisite for the marriage? The bridesmaids wore Colts colors. And the wedding music was the Colts fight song.

I was just about to post that.

Diner is just an incredible movie. Outside of Fast Times at Ridgemont High, there is probably not another movie that combines so many "young stars before they are famous" with "classic scenes" like that one.

Steve Guttenberg
Mickey Rourke
Kevin Bacon
Daniel Stern
Tim Daily
Ellen Barkin
Paul Resier

The Colts quiz.
The Colts wedding.
The popcorn scene.
The records discussion.

[Godfather151981]

Which is why I would never totally rule out a move for the Redskins. I think it's unlikely and there are several other teams that would move before us.

However, lets say that in 10 years LA were still w/ out a team and they somehow offered any NFL owner a publicly financed, state of the art stadium for free. A stadium like the one Indi had waiting for Irsay in 1984, or the one Baltimore had blueprinted for Modell in 1995, Danny would have to weigh his options.

Sure he'd have to weigh his options, but at the moment the Redskins play in a stadium that Snyder owns. Certainly that might not always be the case, but right now it is. Plus, I would bet that the DC city council (in conjunction with the other localities in the area) might pull something similar to what MD tried to do with the eminent domain if the Skins ever tried to move. I would say that for the time being, the Redskins are probably one of the safer franchises in sports with regard to moving.

[RFKFedEx]

I would say that for the time being, the Redskins are probably one of the safer franchises in sports with regard to moving.

Totally agree. Danny probably pockets more cents on the dollar than any other NFL owner considering he owns Raljon and doesn't have to share $ with a local government. All teams but the Packers are private assets and it's unlikely immanent domain would ever be ruled constitutional to prevent a move.

I'm just sayin that in 10 years when FedEx is 20+ years old it will feel like its 30+ years dated. Danny will have no obligation to stay and he can use Raljon as leverage for any expansion team that will need a temp facility.

Again, this is all unlikely but not impossible if the Dodgers left Brooklyn and the Colts left Baltimore.

No team is guaranteed forever.

[Godfather151981]

Oh sure, with Baltimore and Cleveland loosing legendary franchises, no team is safe in theory. The Skins might well be moving back to DC in the future if they can get a stadium built on the RFK site, so for all we know we'll go back to having a city-owned venue. However, I'm not so sure the eminent domain thing wouldn't work, because I think it was about to in Baltimore. Irsay left the city before the other house had passed the bill, so we never really found out. However, I've read that each of those Mayflower moving vans were told to take a slightly different route out of the city and the state of MD because Irsay was afraid that the state boys would try to stop them. So that tells me that either there is a right to "commandeer" a franchise in a situation like that, or Irsay didn't want to stick around and find out. At the very least, Danny Boy isn't out about town getting sloppy drunk all over the place like Irsay. In fact, as a Skins fan with deep roots in the city of Baltimore (I'm also an O's fan), I'd go so far as to say that Irsay might well be the worst owner in sports history.

Ironically, the whole thing came about due to the yearn for a new stadium. Memorial Stadium was one of the most miserable places to play for a visiting team in both football and baseball (probably worse than RFK). I've heard stories about how there was one lone toilet in the middle of the floor by the lockers in the visitors' locker room so basically you had to do your business in front of everyone else, and only one guy at a time. My point is that the very stadium that Irsay hated gave the Colts a huge homefield advantage.

[Popeman38]

I will never like the Colts like I will never like the Ravens. The both STOLE their team from another city. I will never be able to reconcile the vitriol that Baltimore fans feel towards the Indianapolis Colts all the while passionately rooting for the Ravens. The city that bitched and moaned about having the Colts stolen out from under them actively campaigned to steal another team out from under a city. They welcomed the Browns to town, and an owner who watched the whole Colts saga and planned a similar move.

[Gary Clark Fan]

Couple questions:
1. Why was Irsey set on keeping the team and if so why? If he had sold Im curious to know who would of purchased it. were there rumors of potentional owners interested?
2. Why has no other city attempted the eminent dominian theory upon losing a team?

Lastly, I could care less if Danny moves this team at this point. As long as he leaves the colors and records who cares. I can wait a few years for a new team afterall I have had to witness 10+ years of Danny destroying this franchise.

[RFKFedEx]

However, I'm not so sure the eminent domain thing wouldn't work, because I think it was about to in Baltimore. Irsay left the city before the other house had passed the bill, so we never really found out. .

They made similar attempts in Cleveland back in '95. The book Field of Schemes explains why a OH judge threw out the city's case against Modell's relocation attempt. Granted, this book is written from an anti public stadium financing slant, but it's loaded w/ tid bits I never knew about Irsay, Modell and the two moves. Oakland and LA's court battles w/ Al Davis are also pretty juicy if you're into that kind of stuff.

Ironically, the whole thing came about due to the yearn for a new stadium. Memorial Stadium was one of the most miserable places to play for a visiting team in both football and baseball (probably worse than RFK).

I never got to see it for football, but I was fortunate to have attended three O's games in '84 '85 and '89. The only place that I can imagine having been worse was Cleveland Municipal Stadium.

[Dan T.]

Lastly, I could care less if Danny moves this team at this point. As long as he leaves the colors and records who cares. I can wait a few years for a new team afterall I have had to witness 10+ years of Danny destroying this franchise.

It would be a long wait, my friend. Longer than "a few years." In fact, I'm willing to bet we see contraction before we see expansion in the NFL...

[pjfootballer]

Which is why I would never totally rule out a move for the Redskins. I think it's unlikely and there are several other teams that would move before us.

However, lets say that in 10 years LA were still w/ out a team and they somehow offered any NFL owner a publicly financed, state of the art stadium for free. A stadium like the one Indi had waiting for Irsay in 1984, or the one Baltimore had blueprinted for Modell in 1995, Danny would have to weigh his options.

I think you'd see Buffalo or New Orleans in LA way before the Redskins.

[Gary Clark Fan]

It would be a long wait, my friend. Longer than "a few years." In fact, I'm willing to bet we see contraction before we see expansion in the NFL...

I disagree. Tell me Jax, St. Louis, Minn or even NO wouldnt be interested in this market. This town is football crazy and could support a team like no other. This market is a gold mine, ask danny.

[RFKFedEx]

I think you'd see Buffalo or New Orleans in LA way before the Redskins.


So do I.

Did you just join the thread?

[Godfather151981]

They made similar attempts in Cleveland back in '95. The book Field of Schemes explains why a OH judge threw out the city's case against Modell's relocation attempt. Granted, this book is written from an anti public stadium financing slant, but it's loaded w/ tid bits I never knew about Irsay, Modell and the two moves. Oakland and LA's court battles w/ Al Davis are also pretty juicy if you're into that kind of stuff.



I never got to see it for football, but I was fortunate to have attended three O's games in '84 '85 and '89. The only place that I can imagine having been worse was Cleveland Municipal Stadium.

The thing with Memorial Stadium was that it was a blue collar park just like RFK. FedEx is a white collar stadium, and the ninnies that we see complaining about the level of noise and asking people to sit down when the team is on defense is the result of that. M & T Bank Stadium would fall into that white collar category also, but the difference is that for better or for worse, the "blue collarness" never left the city of Baltimore or the people. It's funny that you mention Cleveland, because Memorial Stadium was sort of modeled after Cleveland Municipal. Ironically, Jacobs Field (or whatever they call it now) was modeled after Oriole Park many years later. Nevertheless, it's really sad how some owners see fit to play with the emotions of the people in their city. I dislike Peter Angelos as much as anyone else, but I'll certainly give him credit for keeping the O's in Baltimore, as there was a time when it looked like they were going to move away, and he's always been committed to the city.

[[[ghost]]]

I'd be more sympathetic if Baltimore's current team was a franchise team when it came to Baltimore.

It wasn't. They stole Cleveland's team, just like Indy stole Baltimores.

Granted, the Ravens left the Browns back in Cleveland, but than again, that was a decision that had little to do with the hearts and minds of their former fans.

Simply put, Art Modell didn't want to bring the history of failure with him. The Browns were a relatively succesful team, but not a decorated one. The Colts were the league's finest team for a long time, and are the AFC equivalent of the Packers or Bears in terms of success and history.

**** Baltimore. The Colts now belong to Indy, and their past success in Maryland has NOTHING to do with the Ravens. The Ravens as a franchise date back to Cleveland, and that is where their history lies.

[Godfather151981]

];6890229']I'd be more sympathetic if Baltimore's current team was a franchise team when it came to Baltimore.

It wasn't. They stole Cleveland's team, just like Indy stole Baltimores.

Granted, the Ravens left the Browns back in Cleveland, but than again, that was a decision that had little to do with the hearts and minds of their former fans.

Simply put, Art Modell didn't want to bring the history of failure with him. The Browns were a relatively succesful team, but not a decorated one. The Colts were the league's finest team for a long time, and are the AFC equivalent of the Packers or Bears in terms of success and history.

**** Baltimore. The Colts now belong to Indy, and their past success in Maryland has NOTHING to do with the Ravens. The Ravens as a franchise date back to Cleveland, and that is where their history lies.

So what exactly was Baltimore supposed to do, refuse the team coming to the city? As you might have seen in that program, the true Colt fans were empathetic to the Cleveland fans because they knew what it was like. Most Raven fans now say that they'd rather keep the Raven name anyways, but I suspect that if they were truly being honest with themselves, they'd take the Colt name back if given the opprotunity. The current Raven franchise draws more lineage to the Baltimore Colts than do the Indianapolis Colts. Johnny Unitas and the rest of the old Colts always remained loyal to the city of Baltimore as opposed to the franchise. Most people around the league have a lot more respect for Modell than Irsay in terms of how he went about moving the team. Modell admitted that it was a business decision and he was doing it because the city couldn't come to an agreement on a stadium deal. Irsay threatened to move the team for years, gutted the team, and insulted the fans & city. Then when push came to shove he swore up and down that he wasn't moving the team, and one day they were gone. And it's not as if they didn't try to get an expansion team in Baltimore, but the league went to Jacksonville and Charlotte instead, so when the Browns came knocking, they were welcomed with open arms. (And how's the NFL experiement in Jacksonville working out?)

[RFKFedEx]

The concept of a 'stolen' team is nonsense. We fans don't own anything to steal from one another.

Check out a book called "Slick". It's the Bio on Al Davis and it explains how he essentially stole the Raiders from their original owner Wayne Valley. Davis hijacked the team through a series of legal wranglings, threats, and intimidation which lasted the better part of 20 years.

Al managed to take majority ownership despite having never invested more than a few thousand of his own dollars into the tens of millions the team was worth by the time he gained full control in about 1980.

This was all before AD graduated to stealing from Oakland and LA in stadium deals over the next two decades.

It was Al's move to LA in 1982 which cleared the path for Irsay to follow in 1984.

[HailSkins81]

I enjoyed watching the film, as a lover of football, and a band geek. The Skins and Ravens (Colts) are the only teams with marching bands.

After a bit of research, looks like there is a film coming out about the Skins' band, called "The Band Never Loses a Game". Very appropriate for this season. Here is the link.

http://www.thebandneverlosesagame.com/iWeb/www.thebandneverlosesagame.com/TRAILER.html

[ixcuincle]

I remember this film was mentioned by some sort of media I was listening to the other day. ESPN has had documentary filmmakers create several very impressive documentaries about various topics - this is just one of them. There's another one about Wayne Gretzky and LA.

Good job ESPN. These are good documentaries

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/story/1676807.html

How did the band make a difference in getting a new team?

For a 12-year period, the band made appearances at every barbecue, every event, parties, [even NFL halftime performances in other cities], trying to encourage another NFL franchise to come to Baltimore. You see the dedication of that group and the spirit of the city desperately trying to get another team, twice being passed over for expansion. They continued to work and ultimately the Baltimore Colts Marching Band song played a big part. They actually marched on the state capital playing the song to get the legislators to pass a bill to construct a new stadium, ultimately with the Ravens emerging.

[OWUeagleMD]

Tagliabue's hatred for Baltimore didn't give the city much choice. The Jacksonville expansion franchise should have been given to Baltimore, obviously. When it didn't happen that way (ostensibly so the league could have another Super Bowl city... only to see the Jacksonville Super Bowl become one of the worst ever) Baltimore was left with the choice of accepting a team that vacated another city or just accepting the fact that they were done with football. Only a person who is resolute in their distaste for Baltimore fans (born most likely out of proximity) could begrudge a group of hardcore football fans for embracing a football team that came to their hometown.

[RFKFedEx]

Tagliabue's hatred for Baltimore didn't give the city much choice.


Do you really think Tags had a true hatred for Baltimore?

Don't you think the other owners had any say as to where the next expansion franchises were to be located?

Had Baltimore made the most financial sense at time, the league would have gone there first.

Don't get me wrong, I would have much rather had a team in a traditional football town like Bmore than another sunbelt city w/ a transient population.

I can't stand Jax or Carolina b/c we now know they were pork barrel mistakes resulting from the lure of franchise expansion fees and free public financing plans to build stadiums.

[Skinsfan1311]

I remember it like it was yesterday.

I despised the Colts, but I did feel bad for their fans when they left town.

I'm definitely going to catch the replay on this one...

[[[ghost]]]

So what exactly was Baltimore supposed to do, refuse the team coming to the city? As you might have seen in that program, the true Colt fans were empathetic to the Cleveland fans because they knew what it was like. Most Raven fans now say that they'd rather keep the Raven name anyways, but I suspect that if they were truly being honest with themselves, they'd take the Colt name back if given the opprotunity. The current Raven franchise draws more lineage to the Baltimore Colts than do the Indianapolis Colts. Johnny Unitas and the rest of the old Colts always remained loyal to the city of Baltimore as opposed to the franchise. Most people around the league have a lot more respect for Modell than Irsay in terms of how he went about moving the team. Modell admitted that it was a business decision and he was doing it because the city couldn't come to an agreement on a stadium deal. Irsay threatened to move the team for years, gutted the team, and insulted the fans & city. Then when push came to shove he swore up and down that he wasn't moving the team, and one day they were gone. And it's not as if they didn't try to get an expansion team in Baltimore, but the league went to Jacksonville and Charlotte instead, so when the Browns came knocking, they were welcomed with open arms. (And how's the NFL experiement in Jacksonville working out?)

First of all, Paragraphs.

Second of all, the city of Baltimore and its residents are justified in hating Irsay and the Colts for leaving. Unitas and Co. are mainstays of Baltimore. But they're also related to the Colts, the franchise he played for.

The Ravens, on the other hand, are a team that left Cleveland like the Colts left Baltimore. Them leaving the name behind didn't have as much to do with their former fans so much as their historical record of failure.

Baltimore deserved a team, and clearly the team that became the Jaguars should have been it. But instead, the Ravens are really just the Cleveland Browns of Baltimore.

If you're a Ravens fan under 30, you probably can't even remember the pain that came with losing your team. But instead, Baltimore complains about the atrocities they committed, when they would repeat the same heinous act a decade and a half later.

[OWUeagleMD]

];6894414']First of all, Paragraphs.

Second of all, the city of Baltimore and its residents are justified in hating Irsay and the Colts for leaving. Unitas and Co. are mainstays of Baltimore. But they're also related to the Colts, the franchise he played for.

The Ravens, on the other hand, are a team that left Cleveland like the Colts left Baltimore. Them leaving the name behind didn't have as much to do with their former fans so much as their historical record of failure.

Baltimore deserved a team, and clearly the team that became the Jaguars should have been it. But instead, the Ravens are really just the Cleveland Browns of Baltimore.

If you're a Ravens fan under 30, you probably can't even remember the pain that came with losing your team. But instead, Baltimore complains about the atrocities they committed, when they would repeat the same heinous act a decade and a half later.

You never indicated what you suggest Baltimore fans should have done after they were denied the expansion franchise that should have been theirs.

So what is it? What would you suggest Baltimore fans do? Just stop watching football? Sit and wait another decade? Two decades?

[RFKFedEx]

];6894414']But instead, the Ravens are really just the Cleveland Browns of Baltimore.


Just like the Redskins are really just the Braves of Boston. :hysterical:

You must really have it out for Baltimore's fanbase.

[Heidenreich]

Both of the 30 for 30 documentaries have been good so far. The Colts one was extremely well done.

Next weeks is about the USFL, I'm looking forward to that one too.....

[OWUeagleMD]

Supposdely The Band that Wouldn't Die was meant to be one of the last films in the series, but ESPN bumped it forward once Levinson submitted it.

[Godfather151981]

];6894414']First of all, Paragraphs.

Second of all, the city of Baltimore and its residents are justified in hating Irsay and the Colts for leaving. Unitas and Co. are mainstays of Baltimore. But they're also related to the Colts, the franchise he played for.

The Ravens, on the other hand, are a team that left Cleveland like the Colts left Baltimore. Them leaving the name behind didn't have as much to do with their former fans so much as their historical record of failure.

Baltimore deserved a team, and clearly the team that became the Jaguars should have been it. But instead, the Ravens are really just the Cleveland Browns of Baltimore.

If you're a Ravens fan under 30, you probably can't even remember the pain that came with losing your team. But instead, Baltimore complains about the atrocities they committed, when they would repeat the same heinous act a decade and a half later.

The city and the people had nothing to do with the "heinous act" of the team moving. Certainly in the case of both Baltimore and Cleveland, the city council/state government should have stepped to the plate a bit, but you can't fault the "receiving city" for taking the team. Ultimately when the Colts left, the NFL's attitude was "see ya." Cleveland was guaranteed a new team four years later, and a new stadium, which was the motive for Modell leaving to begin with. In part, I blame the NFL because they're partially the driving force behind wanting new stadiums with club seats and luxury boxes, which generates more money. So they don't have much sympathy for a city that doesn't want to create that kind of atmosphere, which Baltimore didn't in 1984. Cleveland agreed to a new stadium only once they were guaranteed another team.

[Godfather151981]

Just like the Redskins are really just the Braves of Boston. :hysterical:

You must really have it out for Baltimore's fanbase.

I was just about to say the same thing. Not to mention that the Houston Oilers of Tennessee, the Kansas City Chiefs of Dallas, and even the Oakland Raiders of LA of Oakland...

[pjfootballer]

So do I.

Did you just join the thread?

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted your post.

[RFKFedEx]

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted your post.

No worries.;)