AP: US admiral concerned about China military buildup

[JMS]

Here is my problem with this Admirals "concerns". (1) The American defense budget is about 8-10 times as large as China's. Our military spending grew at about 30% a year under G.W. Bush and we currently spend more on defense than the rest of the entire world combined.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

Why exactly is China's 15% defense increase a concern which requires consultation when we didn't check with China when Bush doubled defense spending over his first term?



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h4kq-860fCB0J11y73pGafA7SMTwD9BLD8AG0

US admiral concerned about China military buildup
By JEREMIAH MARQUEZ (AP) – 4 hours ago
HONG KONG — A U.S. Navy admiral expressed new concern Friday over China's military buildup and urged Beijing to be clearer about its intentions.
With China's military growing at an "unprecedented rate," the U.S. wants to ensure that expansion doesn't destabilize the region, Rear Adm. Kevin Donegan told reporters on a visit to the Chinese territory of Hong Kong.
Donegan referred to China's expanded weaponry. His remarks echoed the concerns of other U.S. military leaders who have said the growth in China's military spending — up almost 15 percent in the 2009 budget — raises questions about how Beijing plans on deploying its new power.
"When we see a military growing at that rate, we're interested in transparency and the understanding of the uses of that military," said Donegan, commander of the USS George Washington aircraft carrier strike group, a key part of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.
Donegan's comments come as a top Chinese general visits the United States on a mission to strengthen trust between the two militaries and dispel U.S. concerns about the growth of the People's Liberation Army.

[Larry]

Here is my problem with this Admirals "concerns". (1) The American defense budget is about 8-10 times as large as China's. Our military spending grew at about 30% a year under G.W. Bush and we currently spend more on defense than the rest of the entire world combined.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

Why exactly is China's 15% defense increase a concern which requires consultation when we didn't check with China when Bush doubled defense spending over his first term?

Obviously, they're building up their military so they can defend themselves against US invasion.

[DixieFlatline]

I would guess because China doesn't have troops all over the world helping to protect others. We're probably spread pretty thin if China decides to make trouble.

[DixieFlatline]

Obviously, they're building up their military so they can defend themselves against US invasion.

Maybe they are getting ready for the remake of Red Dawn
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/

[hockeysc23]

That and China has one of the biggest armies in the world and a population base to keep drafting from.

[cjcdaman]

Why exactly is China's 15% defense increase a concern which requires consultation when we didn't check with China when Bush doubled defense spending over his first term?


Because we are evil.

[FanboyOf91]

PLA has to be bribed to keep quiet, of course.

[grhqofb5]

That and China has one of the biggest armies in the world and a population base to keep drafting from.

Yes, but they have to fight off those damn mongolians.

http://rexee-19.vo.llnwd.net/d1/video_img/988/53043889/53043889_1332.jpg

[grhqofb5]

Because we are evil.

You got a link?

[boofMcboof]

China's reasons are pretty simple. Like North Korea's nuclear program, a larger military force commands political influence.

[GibbsFactor]

US Admiral meets kettle.

[hockeysc23]

Yes, but they have to fight off those damn mongolians.

http://rexee-19.vo.llnwd.net/d1/video_img/988/53043889/53043889_1332.jpg


haha when I went there this past month and saw the great wall it was all I could think about. Damn Mongolians!

[nonniey]

Heck, why is he concerned? That is his job. He is a military man China's increased capabilities make it more difficult for him to carry out his mission in certain circumstances. Yes he still may be able to blow the Chinese fleet out of the water but now it will take more effort.

[Prosperity]

it's his job to be concerned


Heck, why is he concerned? That is his job. He is a military man China's increased capabilities make it more difficult for him to carry out his mission in certain circumstances. Yes he still may be able to blow the Chinese fleet out of the water but now it will take more effort.
beat me to it

[JMS]

Maybe they are getting ready for the remake of Red Dawn
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/

Actually in the Movie Red Dawn, Red China was on our side.

[JMS]

China's reasons are pretty simple. Like North Korea's nuclear program, a larger military force commands political influence.


Actually since desert storm, ( first gulf war) the size of china's military has been shrinking just about every year. China witnessed how 120,000 well trained well armed and equiped American soldiers owned the vaunted Iraqi 1 million man army and they changed their entire defense doctrine. China opted for a smaller modern force or China's version of it, and dramatically cut back on people.

[JMS]

That and China has one of the biggest armies in the world and a population base to keep drafting from.

Actually China used to have the largest military in the world. Today they are #4 with only 7.7 million men under arms having shrunk their military by about half since the 1990's, this compared with their 1.3 Billion population. America has 3.3 million men under arms compared with our 300 million population.

Iran has the largest military in the world today with 13.2 million, followed by Vietnam(9.6) and Bangladesh (7.8).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

Back in August of 1990 when we first invaded Iraq. China had the largest military, followed by the Soviet Union, #3 America, and #4 Iraq.

[Predicto]

it's his job to be concerned


beat me to it


Two people beat me to it.

Admirals and Generals and CIA directors should always be concerned about anything that MIGHT happen. Most of the time they turn out to be excessively concerned, even paranoid. That's fine.

The President's job is to weigh the competing concerns and see the big picture.

[JMS]

Yes, but they have to fight off those damn mongolians.

http://rexee-19.vo.llnwd.net/d1/video_img/988/53043889/53043889_1332.jpg


This is actually pretty accurate. China's defense forces are not capable of projecting power removed from their boarders. Most military experts believe them incapable even today of projecting power 100 miles off their coast and reclaiming Taiwan for example. And Taiwan's military capability is not very significant beyond their airforce.

The two countries with the second and third largest capacity to support troops removed from their boarders are France and Britian.

Even China's Navy like the Russian Navy it's based upon, is not often permited out of port. It's not a significant blue water navy, rather it's a coastal defense force based around submarines.

[JMS]

Two people beat me to it.

Admirals and Generals and CIA directors should always be concerned about anything that MIGHT happen. Most of the time they turn out to be excessively concerned, even paranoid. That's fine.

The President's job is to weigh the competing concerns and see the big picture.

I disagree. It's not the Admirals job to drum up the next boogie man to justify increasing or maintaining a humongous irrational defense budget. It's the Admirals job to look for actual potential threats. Those words don't describe China. Fact is it's America's trade policy which is fueling China's economic renaisaunce, it's crazy for our government to both support that policy, while suggesting with the other side of it's face that China is a threat.

Likewise the Bush Military defense budgets of the last 8 years when we went from 240 billion a year to about 600 billion were largely paid for by money borrowed from China.

[sacase]

I disagree. It's not the Admirals job to drum up the next boogie man to justify increasing or maintaining a humongous irrational defense budget. It's the Admirals job to look for actual potential threats. Those words don't describe China. Fact is it's America's trade policy which is fueling China's economic renaisaunce, it's crazy for our government to both support that policy, while suggesting with the other side of it's face that China is a threat.

Likewise the Bush Military defense budgets of the last 8 years when we went from 240 billion a year to about 600 billion were largely paid for by money borrowed from China.

He is not drumming up the next boogie man. China is the biggest military threat in the pacific and a Commander of a fleet has every right to be concered about what they are doing. Perhaps you forgot these

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1255343.stm

or

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7934138.stm

China has made some pretty big steps to moderize their Navy.

Let's not forget China is our biggest espionage threat right now and they are basically trying to steal every piece of technology that we have. But they are not a threat right? Whatever.

[JMS]

He is not drumming up the next boogie man. China is the biggest military threat in the pacific and a Commander of a fleet has every right to be concered about what they are doing. Perhaps you forgot these

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1255343.stm

or

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7934138.stm



So you think a hot head Chinese pilot who accidently crashes into an unarmed American intelligence plane should dictate US defense strategies?
Or a bunch of hot heads trying to scare off an unarmed intelligence ship?

I would argue that all that proves is China a) has a military. b) that military doesn't like being spyed on. I'd say we've known that since the 50's.



China has made some pretty big steps to moderize their Navy.


Yes they have. They've "modernized" from wooden ocean going junks which they were still using as recently as 1998, and today they use 1970's era soviet designed submarines.

Why Modernize? One reason might be the fact that Vietnam kicked their butts in the late 70's early 80's after they finished kicking our butts. Also their economy is growing annually at 10-15% so increasing the defense budjet 15% basically maintains the percent of total spending vs defense ratio as a constant.



Let's not forget China is our biggest espionage threat right now and they are basically trying to steal every piece of technology that we have. But they are not a threat right? Whatever.

France, Israel, Italy, and Germany all run intelligence operations against us. Mostly for Business Intelligence. China's biggest intelligence score against us was their penetration of Los Alimos and their likely pilfering of modern nuclear warhead technology. A Lab which we invited them into, we gave them tours off, and we encouraged technology exchanges from!
Some "intelligence" score. Fact is China is much more likely to go to war with Russia than America.

And I submit to you that a) We are China's biggest trading partner. b) They are our biggest creditor. c) We borrowed the money for our extravegant defense budget from them for the last decade.

We spend 10x the money China does on defense. The greatest threat to the United States is we try to maintain a 630 Billion dollar defense budget and we have to hock our entire economy to China to do it.

[Renegade7]

I'd be concered if China started building bases all over the globe like we have. Until then, I'm going to give them the benifit of the doubt that they want to be able to defend themselves against anyone, including us.

[JMS]

I'd be concered if China started building bases all over the globe like we have. Until then, I'm going to give them the benifit of the doubt that they want to be able to defend themselves against anyone, including us.


Funny thing that. The US either has or is negotiating military bases in just about every country around China.

http://acnu-slsj.uqac.ca/ACNU_dossiers/DufourJ2007a_En_fichiers/usbases200103.jpg

And we are actively negotiating with India, Vietnam, and Mongolio to put bases there. Soon Bangladesh and Burma too. We basically will have China Sourounded.

[GibbsFactor]

Funny thing that. The US either has or is negotiating military bases in just about every country around China.



And we are actively negotiating with India, Vietnam, and Mongolio to put bases there. Soon Bangladesh and Burma too. We basically will have China Sourounded.

Why do you think we're in the countries we are in? It's all strategic. Even going into Iraq and Afghanistan gained approval due to the strategic value of having base of operations in those locations.

That's why I called the General the pot meeting the kettle. It's the same thing with Russia and our shield, hell the Middle East.

[FanboyOf91]

I'd be concered if China started building bases all over the globe like we have. Until then, I'm going to give them the benifit of the doubt that they want to be able to defend themselves against anyone, including us.

Karakoram Highway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakoram_Highway)

Gwadar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwadar)



Gwadar (Urdu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu): گوادر) is located on the southwestern coast of Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan), on the Arabian Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Sea). It is strategically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic) located between three increasingly important regions: the oil-rich Middle East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East), heavily populated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_population) South Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia) and the economically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics) emerging and resource (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_resource)-laden region of Central Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asia). The Gwadar Port (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwadar_Port) was built on a turnkey basis by China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) and signifies an enlarging Chinese footprint in a critically important area. Opened in spring 2007 by then Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Pervez_Musharraf), in the presence of Chinese Communications Minister Li Shenglin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Shenglin), Gwadar Port is now being expanded into a naval base with Chinese technical and financial assistance. Gwadar Port became operational in 2008, with the first ship to dock bringing 52000 tonnes of wheat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat) from Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada). Minister of Ports and Shipping Sardar Nabil Ahmed Khan Gabol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabil_Gabol) officially inaugurated the port on 21 December 2008.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwadar#cite_note-The_Dawn-1). China has acknowledged that Gwadar’s strategic value is no less than that of the Karakoram Highway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakoram_Highway), which helped cement the China-Pakistan nexus. In addition to Gwadar serving as a potential Chinese naval anchor, Beijing is also interested in turning it into an energy-transport hub by building an oil pipeline from Gwadar into Chinese-ruled Xinjiang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang). The planned pipeline will carry crude oil sourced from Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) and African (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African) states. Such transport by pipeline will cut freight costs and also help insulate the Chinese imports from interdiction by hostile naval forces in case of any major war.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Gwadar.jpg

The lines represent potential pipelines, by the way.

[Mad Mike]

One word. Taiwan.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9223/chinataiwan_relations.html

[sacase]

So you think a hot head Chinese pilot who accidently crashes into an unarmed American intelligence plane should dictate US defense strategies?
Or a bunch of hot heads trying to scare off an unarmed intelligence ship?

I would argue that all that proves is China a) has a military. b) that military doesn't like being spyed on. I'd say we've known that since the 50's.



Yes they have. They've "modernized" from wooden ocean going junks which they were still using as recently as 1998, and today they use 1970's era soviet designed submarines.

Why Modernize? One reason might be the fact that Vietnam kicked their butts in the late 70's early 80's after they finished kicking our butts. Also their economy is growing annually at 10-15% so increasing the defense budjet 15% basically maintains the percent of total spending vs defense ratio as a constant.



France, Israel, Italy, and Germany all run intelligence operations against us. Mostly for Business Intelligence. China's biggest intelligence score against us was their penetration of Los Alimos and their likely pilfering of modern nuclear warhead technology. A Lab which we invited them into, we gave them tours off, and we encouraged technology exchanges from!
Some "intelligence" score. Fact is China is much more likely to go to war with Russia than America.

And I submit to you that a) We are China's biggest trading partner. b) They are our biggest creditor. c) We borrowed the money for our extravegant defense budget from them for the last decade.

We spend 10x the money China does on defense. The greatest threat to the United States is we try to maintain a 630 Billion dollar defense budget and we have to hock our entire economy to China to do it.

I rather have a 630 billion dollar defense budget than the 1 Trillion dollar health care plan and other social crap congres is throwing out, not to mention the bailouts.

Hotheads? Ok whatever, if think those pilots and the ship captains did that on their own without permission then you are just plane nuts. Plus both incidents happend in international waters.

Let's just say what you think you know and what is reality are two vastly different things. If you think that China isn't our biggest Foreign Intelligence Threat, then I don't know what to tell you. You know about Los Alamos, but I can assure you there are far more cases than just Los Alamos. The chinese have a very active intelligence campaign againts us.

If you were able to talk to the PACOM Commander then you would know China far and away is PACOM's biggest threat. I seriously hope that you don't think that just because we are their biggest trading patner that they ar enot a threat to us. Military commanders have to view everyone as a threat. The only countries that I would honestly say we don't view as a potential threat are the "Five Eyes" countries, and even then New Zealand is on our bad side.

The reason we spend the most in the world is because 1) we are the best 2) the American public doesn't like Casualties 3) It allows us to use economy of force and have far greater power projection capabilities than anyone else in the world.

[Mad Mike]

The reason we spend the most in the world is because 1) we are the best 2) the American public doesn't like Casualties 3) It allows us to use economy of force and have far greater power projection capabilities than anyone else in the world.

You forgot the best reason of all.

Peace through superior firepower.:D

[rtbasye]

I dont think this is a concern shared across the military-- I just heard the JFC Commander, GEN Mattis asked a nearly identical question about the possible rise of China as a competitor on the world stage. He regarded the rise of China as more of an opportunity to gain an ally in the global war against extremists than as a potential foe.

[cjcdaman]

You got a link?


Look to the OP.