Cowboys cheerleader, FAIL

[Spaceman Spiff]

http://deadspin.com/5394350/the-situation-where-a-dallas-cowboys-cheerleader-appeared-in-blackface-for-halloween-will-probably-not-end-well

What an idiot.

[twa]

Don't see the problem

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Don't see the problem

I agree, she's supposed to be Lil Wayne.

[SC_RedskinsFan]

Am i the only one who does not get what the big deal is?

[SkinsBry]

I don't see the problem, it was Halloween.

[Patrick86L]

I think it has something to do with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

[greenspandan]

hey a bunch of white dudes see no problem. obviously there isn't one.

[skinfan2k]

its halloween it would be different if it were otherwise

[Slacky McSlackAss]

I think some people need to lighten up. Don't really see an issue with this at all.

[Stophovr6]

Should the two girls dressed as Mexicans get in trouble too? Blackface isn't just the act of putting on makeup to make yourself look black. There is much more to it which I believe is included in the wikipedia link Patrick gave. I don't see a problem with what she did. But I'm white so my opinion on it doesn't matter. ;)

[Toe Jam]

I don't see the problem either.

Guess that makes me a honky racist bigot.

[twa]

hey a bunch of white dudes see no problem. obviously there isn't one.

Now I'm offended...I'm spotted.

[Destino]

I don't see the problem either. People need to get over that. It's not like she rubbed coal on her face, put on red lipstick, and did a little dance for the white people. She dressed up as a popular black celebrity.

And um...

http://www.impawards.com/2004/posters/white_chicks_verdvd.jpg

where is the outrage?

[SC_RedskinsFan]

I don't see the problem either.

Guess that makes me a honky racist bigot.

Tell us something we didnt know :silly:

[ldysknzfn1]

Umm..it's halloween. Aren't folks supposed to dress up?

[Bang]

I don't have a problem with it either. It's not like she put big white lipstick on and pretended to be in a minstrel show. I didn't see it as derogatory.

~Bang

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I agree with most...this is a non-story. This isn't the same as what was done in the 1800s (thanks for that wiki link btw). Much, much different.

[IONTOP]

Yeah, it would be disrespectful if her costume was just "A random black person" compared to an actual celebrity...

Plus it's not like she was imitating anything "stereotypical"...

[Spartacus87]

Hardly a big deal. I thought the girls in the Mexican costumes were amusing as well. Just seems like a real reach on the political correctness front, especially since this was just her going to a little party at a friends' house.

I also think I made a better Lil Wayne last year.

[Koala]

Thats actually an awesome custome. Good job. What makes it awesome is the very face she's not a black male, otherwise it wouldnt be as awesome

[Madison Redskin]

Not a big deal. I have, however, seen people in blackface who were total ****. It's sad to say, but one of my friends in high school dressed up as Aunt Jemima for Halloween and started saying a bunch of racist garbage.

[spjunkies]

Yeah, it would be disrespectful if her costume was just "A random black person" compared to an actual celebrity...

Plus it's not like she was imitating anything "stereotypical"...

QFT

Leave the girl alone.

[Toe Jam]

On review, though, the thread title is not misleading.

She DOES fail for being a Cowboys cheerleader....

[Cheers, Beers and Mountaineers]

Not a big deal, and not as funny as my friend who also put on blackface as Plaxico with a gunshot wound on his leg.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

I don't see the problem either. People need to get over that. It's not like she rubbed coal on her face, put on red lipstick, and did a little dance for the white people.


I don't know. Do you have to do that for it to be offensive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjRGXMFGIcQ

:hysterical: Mammie! How I love ya, how I love ya, Mammie!


--

On a serious note, you notice that even when white characters on sketch comedies play dark-skinned black figures, they still only go "tan?"

I think dressing up in brown-face is actually indicative of how the skin color of a black person is still seen as first and most significant. If a black dude dressed up like Steve Irwin and went around speaking like an Aussie with a "Croc" next to his side that he occasionally wrestled, would he need to "lighten" his skin for the part? No.

If he dressed up like Superman and put a little curl on his forehead, would he have to lighten his skin? No. Basically, you could go down the line---there's no need to mess with the skin color to achieve recognition.

So, unlike all the other people in the thread, I'd still say if I saw this I'd have a problem with it and would let her know, too. I'm surprising her black fellow partygoers were cool with it. It's nice that people are less politically correct but there's a difference between political orthodoxy being used as a tool to oppress people and bully them into silence and engaging in historically humiliating racial caricature to achieve an "authentic" look for a Halloween costume.

But what do I know, I'm just a light-skinnedED mulatto with mostly "good" hair and black relatives and friends.

[IceDragon38]

I'm a black guy and I find it frickin hilarious!

[Prosperity]

even if it's not offensive or racist, it's still pretty crude and in bad taste

[herrmag]

Why are people labeling it as "black face"? Black face certainly has a negative connotation attached to it, and rightfully so. She is dressed up as a person, not a race. Even if she was playing it in a negative context, she would be labeled as a Lil' Wayne-ist, not a racist.

[Special K]

What's wrong with this? She was dressing up as Lil' Wayne. People need to relax, good grief.

And seriously...I highly doubt a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader has the intelligence to understand the racial implications of "blackface" when picking out a Halloween costume.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Why are people labeling it as "black face"? Black face certainly has a negative connotation attached to it, and rightfully so. She is dressed up as a person, not a race.

As I described, if you're playing a white person, you don't need to attempt to mimic their skin color but if one of the most important things about someone is that they are "other than you" in skin color, you'll need to attempt to darken your skin.

Would anyone have not known it was Lil Wayne had she had that stupid styrofoam cup, the teeth and hair and tats?

Again, think of almost any white celebrities/characters and how you might imitate them. I bet none of them require a darker skinned person to dab white makeup on their face and arms. Why is the skin color one of the things some white people resort to first?

[IONTOP]

As I described, if you're playing a white person, you don't need to attempt to mimic their skin color but if one of the most important things about someone is that they are "other than you" in skin color, you'll need to attempt to darken your skin.

Would anyone have not known it was Lil Wayne had she had that stupid styrofoam cup, the teeth and hair and tats?

Again, think of almost any white celebrities/characters and how you might imitate them. I bet none of them require a darker skinned person to dab white makeup on their face and arms. Why is the skin color one of the things some white people resort to first?

I went as Obama... I wore a suit and told people that I was going to bail everyone out...






Noone got it...

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

IONTOP, did you do anything with your hair? Obama may or may not have anything distinctive about him (in spite of the historic nature of his presidency) unless maybe you cut out a logo and wore it around or wore his logo as a halo. Did you try that?

had you just worn a suit, even adjusting for hair, AND darkening your skin somewhat, would people have recognized you? lol Some costumes work better than others. It's easier to play someone who stands out a great deal by dress and manner than to play someone like Obama unless you already looked like him, wore a mask or spiced up the costume a bit.

I still think it's very interesting that on major sketch comedy shows when white performers imitate black figures, they still only "tan" themselves somewhat, they don't put on much makeup at all (for fear of the blackface charge.)

BTW, I think Prosperity (I want to still say Liberty) is right. It's not that what she did is "racist" as that has much deeper meaning than simply "tasteless" or "crude." I do know I would not let that girl in my house if she came to my door in that costume for a Halloween party.

[herrmag]

As I described, if you're playing a white person, you don't need to attempt to mimic their skin color but if one of the most important things about someone is that they are "other than you" in skin color, you'll need to attempt to darken your skin.

Would anyone have not known it was Lil Wayne had she had that stupid styrofoam cup, the teeth and hair and tats?

Again, think of almost any white celebrities/characters and how you might imitate them. I bet none of them require a darker skinned person to dab white makeup on their face and arms. Why is the skin color one of the things some white people resort to first?

Really? You've never seen anyone "lighten" their skin for a Halloween costume? Really?

I doubt anyone would've gotten a short white chick wearing a wig and fake teeth as Lil' Wayne. Regardless, you're talking on a broad subject. Do you think she was being intentionally "racist" with this costume, or poking fun at Lil' Wayne? That makes all the difference in the world to me.

[Spartacus87]

As I described, if you're playing a white person, you don't need to attempt to mimic their skin color but if one of the most important things about someone is that they are "other than you" in skin color, you'll need to attempt to darken your skin.

Would anyone have not known it was Lil Wayne had she had that stupid styrofoam cup, the teeth and hair and tats?

Again, think of almost any white celebrities/characters and how you might imitate them. I bet none of them require a darker skinned person to dab white makeup on their face and arms. Why is the skin color one of the things some white people resort to first? I can see what you're saying. For the record, when I went as Lil Wayne in 2008:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8681/weezyg.jpg

I obviously didn't color my skin. And everybody who saw me immediately got it.

I remember the girl in the costume store pushing this body paint and make up set pretty hard though and I just didn't think it would be necessary with all of the accessories I was getting- custom grill, wig, bracelet, rings, chain, aviators, etc. And I actually saw a couple other Lil Waynes who didn't have any body paint or anything either, just a couple goofy white guys like me simply dressing the part.

But, like I said earlier in the thread, I don't personally find what she did to be that big a deal. But thinking about it I can see how it's a bit unnecessary.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

herrmag,

Lightening body skin to resemble a ghost or vampire is not what I was referring to and I think you know that.

Name me a character or celeb who was white (and not Edgar Winter, OK?) who you saw people lighten their skin to play, herrmag. I'm waiting on that one. I admit I haven't been to a ton of Halloween parties of late but I can seriously not recall seeing a bunch of black or brown or Asian people with white powder makeup all over them to resemble a white dude.

I'm not saying it's not out there but I have to wonder if you're getting my point or if you want to consider the point.

I just thought of something. If a black man wears a #5 Saints jersey with Brees on the back, wouldn't that be sufficient? Would he have to then wear whiteface a la Eddie Murphy in that one skit back in the 80s for people to know who he was? Of course not. Now imagine a white dude wearing a Vick jersey with maybe a mustache and two papier mache pitbulls fighting each other hanging from his back or something. Would he have to color his skin brown/black for people to know what he was or would coloring his skin not only be redundant but show that he was unnecessarily focused on skin color?

basically, whites are allowed to distinguish themselves by some other set of characteristics, provided they aren't albinos. No matter how distinctive a black person is (as Lil Wayne kinda is?) to many white people, apparently the most distinctive thing about him is his skin color because without that, the costume just would NOT BE COMPLETE!

I think some people are so used to a total crucifixion following the evaluation of "insensitive" that they are overly defensive. Look, it's somewhat offensive because it demonstrates that, to her, her imitation of someone fairly recognizable would not be complete if she didn't liberally apply brown paint to her skin. It does not mean that because I say this that I: 1) Want her life ruined 2) want her burned alive 3) want her to lose her position as cheerleader 4) think everything is about race and how whites shabbily treat other races---this is GHOST of NIBBS here!

It just means I'm calling it how it is. Like it or not. A hundred people on the thread could say it's OK and I'm explaining why it maybe isn't. Not that it's Holocaust II: Final Countdown, just that it's maybe ignorant and that the specific imitation of a black celeb doesn't mitigate it nearly as much as some of you have insisted.

[herrmag]

herrmag,

Lightening body skin to resemble a ghost or vampire is not what I was referring to and I think you know that.

Name me a character or celeb who was white (and not Edgar Winter, OK?) who you saw people lighten their skin to play, herrmag. I'm waiting on that one. I admit I haven't been to a ton of Halloween parties of late but I can seriously not recall seeing a bunch of black or brown or Asian people with white powder makeup all over them to resemble a white dude.

I'm not saying it's not out there but I have to wonder if you're getting my point or if you want to consider the point.

I just thought of something. If a black man wears a #5 Saints jersey with Brees on the back, wouldn't that be sufficient? Would he have to then wear whiteface a la Eddie Murphy in that one skit back in the 80s for people to know who he was? Of course not. Now imagine a white dude wearing a Vick jersey with maybe a mustache and two papier mache pitbulls fighting each other hanging from his back or something. Would he have to color his skin brown/black for people to know what he was or would coloring his skin not only be redundant but show that he was unnecessarily focused on skin color?

basically, whites are allowed to distinguish themselves by some other set of characteristics, provided they aren't albinos. No matter how distinctive a black person is (as Lil Wayne kinda is?) to many white people, apparently the most distinctive thing about him is his skin color because without that, the costume just would NOT BE COMPLETE!

I think some people are so used to a total crucifixion following the evaluation of "insensitive" that they are overly defensive. Look, it's somewhat offensive because it demonstrates that, to her, her imitation of someone fairly recognizable would not be complete if she didn't liberally apply brown paint to her skin. It does not mean that because I say this that I: 1) Want her life ruined 2) want her burned alive 3) want her to lose her position as cheerleader 4) think everything is about race and how whites shabbily treat other races---this is GHOST of NIBBS here!

It just means I'm calling it how it is. Like it or not. A hundred people on the thread could say it's OK and I'm explaining why it maybe isn't. Not that it's Holocaust II: Final Countdown, just that it's maybe ignorant and that the specific imitation of a black celeb doesn't mitigate it nearly as much as some of you have insisted.

I didn't read your entire post. Perhaps it's because I'm too tired, or perhaps I just don't have it in me tonight.

The reason I put "lighten" in quotes is because you and I both know what this thread is about. I wasn't confusing it with vampires or the like. I'll give you a little background on me real quick, and I'm done with this thread.

My current g/f (whom I hope to marry) is as dark an Indian woman as they come. We joke CONSTANTLY about race, as does our circle. We laugh at how up in arms Americans get over such trivial crap. She pokes fun at me calling me whitey, and I do the same to her. Emotionally, I've become so removed from the political correctness that exists in this country. I find it hard to get upset when I see someone like Dave Chapelle play a stereo-typical white guy on TV, and the same when I see the opposite. Everyone should ask why they are offended from this costume. For ****s sake, look at the people she's posing in pictures with. If the black chicks in the photos (who are presumably her friends) don't care, why would you?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Everyone should ask why they are offended from this costume. For ****s sake, look at the people she's posing in pictures with. If the black chicks in the photos (who are presumably her friends) don't care, why would you?

Thanks for the background, though I'd add it's not necessary. I know you don't come from a position of either malice or profound ignorance.

As for being non-PC in humor--come on, have you seen my posts on the Tailgate (maybe not recently, I don't come here often but way back?) It's really a very narrow thing to me that I wanted to comment on. I laugh at racial humor and often employ it. Again, just something very specific that I think is a bit different. Not end of the world (in this case) but just tasteless.

As for the women in the photographs with her--it's nice that they found no issue with it but I'm pretty sure that I know just as many people who would have an issue with it. They could be used to and accepting of certain things from her being her friend--they could be young and dumb (more likely.) Doesn't mean she gets a 100 percent pass.

But it's late, no point in going in circles the rest of the night :)

[McD5]

What's the problem?

[jrfriedm]

I don't see the problem. I actually saw a dude dressed up just like that this weekend.

[Bang]

Well, now I can understand people not wanting this:
http://cndls.georgetown.edu/applications/posterTool/data/users/Minstrel_PosterBillyVanWare.jpg
As this is a demeaning caricature of an entire race.
This is also nearly 100 years old.

This is also a demeaning caricature of an entire race, yet it's only 5 years old.
http://movie.bajung.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/white_chicks.jpg

So, here's the thing. This girl put on makeup to portray an individual, not an entire race. She also didn't do anything over the top with it to make it particularly offensive, like paint her lips big and pink, or paint her entire body, put some rope braids in her hair and call herself "black chick".

If it's bad to use makeup to make fun of an entire race, then the Wayans brothers need to go to the top of the hit list, not only because they put on makeup, they also named their movie so that they identified their characters with the entirety of white women.

Why is one racist, and the other isn't? Oh, I know, it's that good ol' non-existant double standard that everyone knows does exist, and enjoys accordingly.

The answer is simple. You take a look at the Halloween costume for what it is, and stop assigning racist bull**** to everything under the sun. You can't excuse one and decry the other. If it's all in good fun to make major motion pictures that use race as it's main theme and comedic vehicle, then it's all in good fun to make a Halloween costume about a specific individual.

~Bang

[LegionOfDoom]

This was 1976 and hillarious!

http://www.reelfilm.com/images/silvstrek.jpg

[sacase]

Well, now I can understand people not wanting this:

As this is a demeaning caricature of an entire race.
This is also nearly 100 years old.

This is also a demeaning caricature of an entire race, yet it's only 5 years old.

So, here's the thing. This girl put on makeup to portray an individual, not an entire race. She also didn't do anything over the top with it to make it particularly offensive, like paint her lips big and pink, or paint her entire body, put some rope braids in her hair and call herself "black chick".

If it's bad to use makeup to make fun of an entire race, then the Wayans brothers need to go to the top of the hit list, not only because they put on makeup, they also named their movie so that they identified their characters with the entirety of white women.

Why is one racist, and the other isn't? Oh, I know, it's that good ol' non-existant double standard that everyone knows does exist, and enjoys accordingly.

The answer is simple. You take a look at the Halloween costume for what it is, and stop assigning racist bull**** to everything under the sun. You can't excuse one and decry the other. If it's all in good fun to make major motion pictures that use race as it's main theme and comedic vehicle, then it's all in good fun to make a Halloween costume about a specific individual.

~Bang

Good post Bang, I agree with it completly. People just want to be overly sensative about this kind of stuff. Its all in good fun on Holloween. People are calling to much stuff racist these days and people have really become desensatised to things that really are racist or bigoted.

[Bang]

This is as good a time as any to tell this tale, so here goes.

21 years ago I moved into my neighborhood. My neighbors are overwhelmingly black. (There's one other white family on the street. Way down the other end.) I moved in June, and the entire Summer I got looked at out of the corner of eyes, no one would talk to me. Barely ever got anyone to smile and say hello.
So come Halloween, I told my ex that they were either going to talk TO us, or they were going to talk about us, and one way or another we'll force people to deal with the fact we're in the neighborhood...
so I dressed up as Aunt Jemimah and answered the door for trick or treaters with my costume on. I'd say "Law d lawd! Lookit all these chill'uns!" and I'd give them candy.
Kids laughed, parents stared at me with their mouths open.
The next day I got invited over to pitch horseshoes with my neighbors. They all clapped me on the back and laughed like hell, called me one crazy SOB, and ever since I've been as snug as can be in this neighborhood.

The moral of the story: People typically understand what is going on, and it's mostly outside influences that cause the unease. We can make fun and have fun with each other without it being hate based or anything like that. And most of us do actually enjoy poking fun at ourselves.

~Bang

[hawgboy]

Name me a character or celeb who was white (and not Edgar Winter, OK?) who you saw people lighten their skin to play, herrmag. I'm waiting on that one. I admit I haven't been to a ton of Halloween parties of late but I can seriously not recall seeing a bunch of black or brown or Asian people with white powder makeup all over them to resemble a white dude.


How about Dave Chappelle going "whiteface" as a news anchor for the reparations skit. Or the Wayans brothers in White Chicks...just throwin it out there. If the cheerleader in question had used the costume without dark makeup most people would have just assumed her costume was a redneck.

Hmmmm....does that make L'il Wayne a redneck???

[Popeman38]

Well, now I can understand people not wanting this:
http://cndls.georgetown.edu/applications/posterTool/data/users/Minstrel_PosterBillyVanWare.jpg
As this is a demeaning caricature of an entire race.
This is also nearly 100 years old.

This is also a demeaning caricature of an entire race, yet it's only 5 years old.
http://movie.bajung.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/white_chicks.jpg

So, here's the thing. This girl put on makeup to portray an individual, not an entire race. She also didn't do anything over the top with it to make it particularly offensive, like paint her lips big and pink, or paint her entire body, put some rope braids in her hair and call herself "black chick".

If it's bad to use makeup to make fun of an entire race, then the Wayans brothers need to go to the top of the hit list, not only because they put on makeup, they also named their movie so that they identified their characters with the entirety of white women.

Why is one racist, and the other isn't? Oh, I know, it's that good ol' non-existant double standard that everyone knows does exist, and enjoys accordingly.

The answer is simple. You take a look at the Halloween costume for what it is, and stop assigning racist bull**** to everything under the sun. You can't excuse one and decry the other. If it's all in good fun to make major motion pictures that use race as it's main theme and comedic vehicle, then it's all in good fun to make a Halloween costume about a specific individual.

~Bang/thread

[sideshow24]

The Wayans brothers probably think it is funny. (Way to beat me to it with a way better post BANG :thumbsup:)

[Bang]

The Wayans brothers probably think it is funny. (Way to beat me to it with a way better post BANG :thumbsup:)

Well, it IS funny. (OK, so the movie wasn't all that great, but...) we definitely need to understand that sometimes humor is just humor, and that we can poke a little fun about ourselves and each other without it being a problem.
Hate is pretty easy to spot.

~Bang

[Koolblue13]

shouldn't somebody in here be feigning anger? somethings not right here.

[sideshow24]

shouldn't somebody in here be feigning anger? somethings not right here.

MOTHER:cuss:

[kuraitengai]

Should the two girls dressed as Mexicans get in trouble too? Blackface isn't just the act of putting on makeup to make yourself look black. There is much more to it which I believe is included in the wikipedia link Patrick gave. I don't see a problem with what she did. But I'm white so my opinion on it doesn't matter. ;)
i dont either. cuz in all the blackface stuff ive ever seen, the lips were done in makeup far larger than normal, as an emphasis. her lips didnt even look done at all. so i dont see how its blackface, its more like she just put on a ton of makeup. i dont see that its blackface at all cuz its missing parts of it.

[fullnelson9999]

double standard? I think so.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/White-Chicks-Poster-C10124617.jpeg

Edit: Ok someone beat me to it, but my point still stands.

[Chachie]

1. She did a pretty good job of looking like Lil Wayne for a girl.

2. Her african american friends didn't seem to have a problem with it.

3. Was she supposed to avoid controversy by being a white Lil Wayne?


I don't see the problem here either.

[Drop]

Bang has owned this thread in multiple posts. The "racist", "blacface" crap can go away now. This was seriously no big deal.

[ljs]

damn, I had a great response until Bangs post. Thread over-Bang wins.

[Elessar78]

I'm asian. I dressed up as Indiana Jones one year. Does that make me racist? Or am I only allowed to go as ninjas or samurais?

[kramdizzle]

dave chappell dressed up like a white person for his comedy. he didnt get fired. lighten up people its a joke YEEEAAAAH!!

[DeanCollins]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_j9oDqG2zBGE/SLitQ7Mgz_I/AAAAAAAABnQ/LgqI3Nj6WFI/s400/i%27d+hit+it.jpg

:paranoid:

[SnyderShrugged]

This is as good a time as any to tell this tale, so here goes.

21 years ago I moved into my neighborhood. My neighbors are overwhelmingly black. (There's one other white family on the street. Way down the other end.) I moved in June, and the entire Summer I got looked at out of the corner of eyes, no one would talk to me. Barely ever got anyone to smile and say hello.
So come Halloween, I told my ex that they were either going to talk TO us, or they were going to talk about us, and one way or another we'll force people to deal with the fact we're in the neighborhood...
so I dressed up as Aunt Jemimah and answered the door for trick or treaters with my costume on. I'd say "Law d lawd! Lookit all these chill'uns!" and I'd give them candy.
Kids laughed, parents stared at me with their mouths open.
The next day I got invited over to pitch horseshoes with my neighbors. They all clapped me on the back and laughed like hell, called me one crazy SOB, and ever since I've been as snug as can be in this neighborhood.

The moral of the story: People typically understand what is going on, and it's mostly outside influences that cause the unease. We can make fun and have fun with each other without it being hate based or anything like that. And most of us do actually enjoy poking fun at ourselves.

~Bang


OMG!!! I'm still laughing at my desk. Awesome story and great results!

[SnyderShrugged]

I'm asian. I dressed up as Indiana Jones one year. Does that make me racist? Or am I only allowed to go as ninjas or samurais?


Maybe they thought you were short round? :)

[#98QBKiller]

This is pretty much a non-issue...I'm more offended by the guy dressed as a baby.

[frostyj]

Maybe they thought you were short round? :)

:hysterical::hysterical:

[Destino]

I'm asian. I dressed up as Indiana Jones one year. Does that make me racist? Or am I only allowed to go as ninjas or samurais?

:hysterical:

one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.

[Califan007]

Not bothered by it, but it was in poor taste. There are some things that deal with race that you just don't **** with...darkening your skin to appear "blacK" starts to cross over into that category. If this was just some anonymous person out of the billions of anonymous people on the planet, it would be a little different...still in poor taste, but differnt. But when you are a celebrity (or semi-celebrity as in here) and represent your company the way the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders represent that franchise, you should make MUCH better decisions.

And, no, you don't have to alter your skin color to go in costume...I agree with Ghost that there are SOME out there who feel they can't really go in costume as someone who's black unless their skin is dark, which is insulting...and which usually points to what they see in a person first and foremost. I'm black, I went to a costume party with a roommate years ago as the Blues Brothers. The idea that I might need to make my skin look white in order to make sure people "got" the costume never once crossed my mind...because I didn't see John Belushi's character as "white" or as a skin color. I saw him as a short, round, doofy-yet-cool guy who wore a black suit, a black hat, and black sunglasses all the time lol...and I figured that's what everyone else saw, too. So that's what I put on.

[Califan007]

Well, now I can understand people not wanting this:
[IMG]
As this is a demeaning caricature of an entire race.
This is also nearly 100 years old.

This is also a demeaning caricature of an entire race, yet it's only 5 years old.



Not the same.

The second example, the guys dressing up as "white chicks" was part of the storyline, FBI agents going undercover to impersonate the women they are assigned to protect.

The first example, there's no "plot" that requires the performer to appear black...they only did so in order to mimick how they saw blacks during that time (ignorant, lazy, foolish, big lips, big buggy eyes, etc.).

[Duckus]

I love how everyone is offended, but no one cares about the people dressed up as Mexicans.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

How about Dave Chappelle going "whiteface" as a news anchor for the reparations skit.

I draw a line between sketch comedy and film where the idea is to recreate reality (to some degree) in order to draw out laughs.

Halloween costumes are not the equivalent of a Dave Chappelle skit.

I asked for examples of Halloween costumes that necessitated people whitening their skin. You won't find many.


BTW, the cat who said he was Asian and went as Indiana Jones--was that supposed to be a relevant response? Did you whiten your skin in order to look like Indy or did you just wear the hat, bullwhip, satchel and leather jacket?

I'm glad Califan chimed in. You guys know that I'm not some racial grievance monger. I'm telling you that a bunch of (mostly) white people saying it's not a big deal doesn't make it so. It's not the end of the world but it's ignorant. It's not equivalent to a movie where someone is trying to look like a particular thing or a sketch comedy where depiction is part of the game.

if you showed up with your skin browned/blacked to imitate a black person at my house, you're not getting in.

"Hey, I'm your grandfather, Nick! See, I have a briefcase here, a suit. But it wasn't complete without the blackface!"
GTFO

As I said numerous times, no one would even think of whitening their skin to look like a famous white person. Because it's not the first thing people see. If I were dressing up as Kanye West, wouldn't it make sense to get my hair a certain way, wear big stupid sunglasses, pastel sweater vests and maybe carry a big Taylor SWift cutout with me and a microphone? Would I have to darken my skin?

If someone wanted to dress up as Joe Gibbs would they have to whiten their skin? Would they even think to?

What you don't see is the subtle way in which racism OR racialist thinking can occur. And this goes the other direction---I'm one of those guys that points out black-on-white racial violence and discrimination on this board. I simply describe what I see and what I've experienced, whether it puts me with the "in crowd" or not on a given topic.

[MissU28]

i dunno, but she looks really gross in that costume

[cjcdaman]

I draw a line between sketch comedy and film where the idea is to recreate reality (to some degree) in order to draw out laughs.

Halloween costumes are not the equivalent of a Dave Chappelle skit.

I asked for examples of Halloween costumes that necessitated people whitening their skin. You won't find many.


BTW, the cat who said he was Asian and went as Indiana Jones--was that supposed to be a relevant response? Did you whiten your skin in order to look like Indy or did you just wear the hat, bullwhip, satchel and leather jacket?

I'm glad Califan chimed in. You guys know that I'm not some racial grievance monger. I'm telling you that a bunch of (mostly) white people saying it's not a big deal doesn't make it so. It's not the end of the world but it's ignorant. It's not equivalent to a movie where someone is trying to look like a particular thing or a sketch comedy where depiction is part of the game.

if you showed up with your skin browned/blacked to imitate a black person at my house, you're not getting in.

"Hey, I'm your grandfather, Nick! See, I have a briefcase here, a suit. But it wasn't complete without the blackface!"
GTFO

As I said numerous times, no one would even think of whitening their skin to look like a famous white person. Because it's not the first thing people see. If I were dressing up as Kanye West, wouldn't it make sense to get my hair a certain way, wear big stupid sunglasses, pastel sweater vests and maybe carry a big Taylor SWift cutout with me and a microphone? Would I have to darken my skin?

If someone wanted to dress up as Joe Gibbs would they have to whiten their skin? Would they even think to?

What you don't see is the subtle way in which racism OR racialist thinking can occur. And this goes the other direction---I'm one of those guys that points out black-on-white racial violence and discrimination on this board. I simply describe what I see and what I've experienced, whether it puts me with the "in crowd" or not on a given topic.


Wow. :doh:

[Bang]

Not the same.

The second example, the guys dressing up as "white chicks" was part of the storyline, FBI agents going undercover to impersonate the women they are assigned to protect.

The first example, there's no "plot" that requires the performer to appear black...they only did so in order to mimick how they saw blacks during that time (ignorant, lazy, foolish, big lips, big buggy eyes, etc.).

You don't get how the plot itself is a vehicle for a singular broad racial joke?
Did everyone go see that movie for the mystery, or because the Wayans dressed up as "White Chicks"? The whole point of the movie was to put the Wayans in front of a camera so they could make cliché jokes about "White Chicks".
That's why the movie isn't called "FBI Undercover", or "The Transvestite Detectives"
Trust me, when their brother pitched it to the studio, he didn't play up the dramatic angle, and no one ever expected Academy consideration for the screenplay.

Surely we can't be so blind as to not be able to call a spade a spade.

~Bang

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Wow. :doh:

It's substantive contributions like that which have made you famous, CJC.

What exactly is controversial in what I'm saying? It may even be something you disagree with ultimately, but are you really telling me I'm wrong.

I still haven't heard anyone's example of a HALLOWEEN costume where a person felt compelled to whiten their skin to resemble the person they're dressing up as.

I think my points are not only valid but true. I've heard people argue why offense should not be taken, that there's a double standard (that is something you can argue, I think) and the like but I haven't heard them addressed. The closest maybe was herrmag in addressing the more substantive points.

Also, can I point out how many people are confusing this costume and opinions on it with the entire realm of racial humor? Where have I ever given the impression I don't enjoy racial humor, mockery or that I hew to political correctness?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Surely we can't be so blind as to not be able to call a spade a spade.


I see what you did there. Clever.

;):hysterical:

[cjcdaman]

It's substantive contributions like that which have made you famous, CJC.

What exactly is controversial in what I'm saying? It may even be something you disagree with ultimately, but are you really telling me I'm wrong.

I still haven't heard anyone's example of a HALLOWEEN costume where a person felt compelled to whiten their skin to resemble the person they're dressing up as.

I think my points are not only valid but true. I've heard people argue why offense should not be taken, that there's a double standard (that is something you can argue, I think) and the like but I haven't heard them addressed. The closest maybe was herrmag in addressing the more substantive points.

Also, can I point out how many people are confusing this costume and opinions on it with the entire realm of racial humor? Where have I ever given the impression I don't enjoy racial humor, mockery or that I hew to political correctness?


You didn't need to write all that, Ghost. Simply :doh: is all I have to say.


To find this racist in any way possible is a complete joke.

[RedlightG20]

Don't see a problem.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/08/whitechicks.jpg

[twa]

To me it is about the equal of using the Redskins name.

Bound to piss some people off...but who cares.;)

[Destino]

I love how everyone is offended, but no one cares about the people dressed up as Mexicans.

This is a great point. She is dressed like an actual celeb. A person. Not a race. An actual human being. The two dressed as mexicans however are enjoying a stereotype costume.

Interesting where the "outrage" goes though eh?

[fire5man80]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/10/500x_custom_1257023201903_dc_cheerleader8.jpg

I cant believe more isnt being said that these cheerleaders were fratanizing with Romo and Witten!!!!
Sad that neither one of them can even dress up for a Halloween party though. :D

[#98QBKiller]

I draw a line between sketch comedy and film where the idea is to recreate reality (to some degree) in order to draw out laughs.

Halloween costumes are not the equivalent of a Dave Chappelle skit.

I asked for examples of Halloween costumes that necessitated people whitening their skin. You won't find many.


BTW, the cat who said he was Asian and went as Indiana Jones--was that supposed to be a relevant response? Did you whiten your skin in order to look like Indy or did you just wear the hat, bullwhip, satchel and leather jacket?

I'm glad Califan chimed in. You guys know that I'm not some racial grievance monger. I'm telling you that a bunch of (mostly) white people saying it's not a big deal doesn't make it so. It's not the end of the world but it's ignorant. It's not equivalent to a movie where someone is trying to look like a particular thing or a sketch comedy where depiction is part of the game.

if you showed up with your skin browned/blacked to imitate a black person at my house, you're not getting in.

"Hey, I'm your grandfather, Nick! See, I have a briefcase here, a suit. But it wasn't complete without the blackface!"
GTFO

As I said numerous times, no one would even think of whitening their skin to look like a famous white person. Because it's not the first thing people see. If I were dressing up as Kanye West, wouldn't it make sense to get my hair a certain way, wear big stupid sunglasses, pastel sweater vests and maybe carry a big Taylor SWift cutout with me and a microphone? Would I have to darken my skin?

If someone wanted to dress up as Joe Gibbs would they have to whiten their skin? Would they even think to?

What you don't see is the subtle way in which racism OR racialist thinking can occur. And this goes the other direction---I'm one of those guys that points out black-on-white racial violence and discrimination on this board. I simply describe what I see and what I've experienced, whether it puts me with the "in crowd" or not on a given topic.


Sounds to me like you just have your proverbial panties in a proverbial bunch.

Dave Chappelle skit/lame Wayans bros. movie/Halloween costume. They're all fictitious portrayals of one race as another. I guess maybe the difference is that Dave Chappelle takes it a step further and tells jokes about white people?

In fact (not that any of them are bad IMO) the movie and the Chappelle skit would actually be worse because they're projected to a much larger audience.

As far as people whitening their skin for a Halloween costume...how about a black person going as Eminem? Michael Jackson from the 'Dangerous' era? Most any President besides Obama?

You're not going to find many people that are going to cry if a black person lightens their skin for a costume. In fact, I never heard a peep about the Wayans brothers movie in the media when it came out.

I'm guessing things would be a little different if the Coen brothers came out with "Black Girls." Not that they would.

This is typical though. Makes for a nice controversial story from some white-guilt stricken, liberal blogger.

I like how they inaccurately claimed that she "appeared in blackface."

Going all out, painting yourself black and going as Lil' Wayne isn't the same thing as going in blackface.

[Bang]

Well now lets see where this discussion goes.
Cheerleader- Meet Deron Williams (http://deadspin.com/5396348/fear-of-a-blackface-planet-cowboys-cheerleader-meet-deron-williams)

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/11/500x_custom_1257284907192_blacklikemewhitelikeme.j pg

Yes, poor Whitney Isleib is getting some mixed reviews after she decided to shoe polish her face in order to authenticate her Lil' Wayne costume, but there is decidedly less uproar over Deron Williams' terrifying Cal Ripken costume.

Williams posed for this photo which was released to 105.3's Brasky & Gregg show, donning an Orioles hat and ghastly make-up. This is not in response to Ms. Isleib's costume whatsoever, it's just a black dude dressing up like a white dude for Halloween.


More under the link at the top.


I really don't know any other way to dress up and Be Cal Ripken, unless you show up for Halloween 2632 times in a row.


OK, So now who is offended by Mr Williams' portrayal of a white Cal Ripken for Halloween?
I'm not, other than he must think we all look ridiculously ashy.
Yo, Cal! Pass me the lotion!

~Bang

[#98QBKiller]

He forgot to shave his mustache...I don't think I've never seen a mustachioed Cal Jr.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Assuming he's dressed up as Cal Ripken, he's wrong too.

Besides, I love that people throw around terms like "panties in a bunch" to refer to me stating it like it is. Deron Williams bizarre attempt at humor notwithstanding, the point remains that for many whites, they see the skin color first and that's what distinguishes a black person from others for them.

There is an entire MadTV sketch where the woman is trying to give credit to a salesperson without referring to his race. It's hilarious but it's true.

Destino,

I have a problem with how the "Mexicans" dressed up. I can't speak for others but since the cheerleader is what was being discussed, I went with that. It seems like there was some kind of theme at the party but maybe it was just a handful of geniuses.


---

Again, some of you are confusing the ability to laugh at racial humor and relatively free and open expression with a denial of any possibly ignorance on the part of some or underlying racialist (not racist, necessarily) ways in which we process information about individuals.

Whatever, what is the point in arguing it anymore? Clearly, the presence of black people at the party means that there's no possible way anyone should ever interpret anything being wrong with her costume needing skin color makeup to be complete.

For all I know, this is some costume fad sweeping the country--why the hell would light-skinnedED Deron Williams need to put any skin makeup on to be a white dude?

[#98QBKiller]

Assuming he's dressed up as Cal Ripken, he's wrong too.

Besides, I love that people throw around terms like "panties in a bunch" to refer to me stating it like it is. Deron Williams bizarre attempt at humor notwithstanding, the point remains that for many whites, they see the skin color first and that's what distinguishes a black person from others for them.

There is an entire MadTV sketch where the woman is trying to give credit to a salesperson without referring to his race. It's hilarious but it's true.

Destino,

I have a problem with how the "Mexicans" dressed up. I can't speak for others but since the cheerleader is what was being discussed, I went with that. It seems like there was some kind of theme at the party but maybe it was just a handful of geniuses.


---

Again, some of you are confusing the ability to laugh at racial humor and relatively free and open expression with a denial of any possibly ignorance on the part of some or underlying racialist (not racist, necessarily) ways in which we process information about individuals.

Whatever, what is the point in arguing it anymore? Clearly, the presence of black people at the party means that there's no possible way anyone should ever interpret anything being wrong with her costume needing skin color makeup to be complete.

For all I know, this is some costume fad sweeping the country--why the hell would light-skinnedED Deron Williams need to put any skin makeup on to be a white dude?

You're not "stating it like it is." You're making assumptions that the reason for the girl painting herself black is because skin color is the first thing she sees when encountering someone of a different race, but when it comes to examples of entertainers doing the same thing you defend it as "free and open expression." Even though something as insignificant as a Halloween costume falls under that same category.

Not to mention her costume is more of a nod to pop culture than it is to race but you can't see that because you're on the defensive about it.

[hawgboy]

I still haven't heard anyone's example of a HALLOWEEN costume where a person felt compelled to whiten their skin to resemble the person they're dressing up as.


Michael Jackson

[Koolblue13]

So Nibbs, is it wrong to color yourself green if you're frankenstien or white if you're a zombie?

[Destino]

So Nibbs, is it wrong to color yourself green if you're frankenstien or white if you're a zombie?

why does the zombie got to be white?

[Koolblue13]

why does the zombie got to be white?

Good question. Especially since we all know the black guy usually dies first.

[Koolblue13]

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_k siag9NH2t1qzp1zzo1_500.jpg&h=c40c184bc674f46e015874552e79d1b2

[GoSkins561]

As I described, if you're playing a white person, you don't need to attempt to mimic their skin color but if one of the most important things about someone is that they are "other than you" in skin color, you'll need to attempt to darken your skin.

Would anyone have not known it was Lil Wayne had she had that stupid styrofoam cup, the teeth and hair and tats?

Again, think of almost any white celebrities/characters and how you might imitate them. I bet none of them require a darker skinned person to dab white makeup on their face and arms. Why is the skin color one of the things some white people resort to first?

Who cares dude, if a black person wanted to paint his face to look like a white man, no one would care. I see the whole black face thing, this is completely different. At some point people need to stop whining about the small stuff.

[GoSkins561]

A black dude is not effectively pulling off John McCain, Willie Nelson, Bill Clinton without painting himself white.

[#98QBKiller]

So Nibbs, is it wrong to color yourself green if you're frankenstien or white if you're a zombie?


:nono:


Don't forget about the Incredible Hulk.

[GhostofSparta]

Look at these racists:

http://www.coolest-homemade-costumes.com/images/coolest-smurf-costume-3-33070.jpg

[ixcuincle]

Opie and Anthony on radio now talking about this issue. Neither one of them seems happy with this political correctness.

[ixcuincle]

Lol this guy on the news

"Why not be original? Why you gotta dress up?"

Dummy, it's Halloween. People dress up for Halloween.

[>>Spearhead>>]

I think the hypocrisy is more disappointing than the cheerleader's racial insensitivity at the Halloween party.

I mean, for all we know, she could have more cultural diversity than this entire board does combined. That is unless we are prejudging her.

[>>Spearhead>>]

-temporary thread jack - Sorry

Bang Fanboy Alert


most of us do actually enjoy poking fun at ourselves.

~Bang

Couldn't we of just gotten in the ol' victory formation and taken a knee right here?

Thank you, internet - for porn and Bang

Bang- if I PM you my address will you send me some kind of autographed Cleveland Steamer print or something?