TMZ: Prejean Sex Tape Triggers Settlement

[ACW]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/04/carrie-prejean-sex-tape-settlement-miss-california-usa-pagneat/
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: :owned:

[StillUnknown]

*patiently waits for said tape to leak*

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't get why this girl gets hated on so much simply because she expressed a viewpoint that might not have been the most popular one. If anything she should be held up as an example for sticking up for what you believe in.

And no, I don't agree with what she said.

That said, where can this tape be seen?

[redskins59]

I don't get why this girl gets hated on so much simply because she expressed a viewpoint that might not have been the most popular one. If anything she should be held up as an example for sticking up for what you believe in.

And no, I don't agree with what she said.



If you're gonna make a sextape, don't tell us you're "religious", period. Or is this chic a typical "christian"?

[Spaceman Spiff]

If you're gonna make a sextape, don't tell us you're "religious", period. Or is this chic a typical "christian"?

Whats a typical Christian?

Gay marriage and a sex tape are two entirely different things.

[boofMcboof]

I love this sex tape generation.

[ljs]

I don't think I would consider it a sex tape, she is masturbating and is alone in the tape. And you wanna tell me that people who go to church and consider themselves christians never do something like this? No reason to crucify her (no pun intended). She was treated unfairly for her honest answer. If you don't really want an honest answer, then don't ask the ****ing question.

at least that dumb Perez Hilton hasn't leaked a sex tape,:puke:

[Enter Apotheosis]

Whats a typical Christian?

http://students.historygeek.org/Unit1/mayflower%20compact%20signing.jpg

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think I would consider it a sex tape, she is masturbating and is alone in the tape. And you wanna tell me that people who go to church and consider themselves christians never do something like this? No reason to crucify her (no pun intended). She was treated unfairly for her honest answer. If you don't really want an honest answer, then don't ask the ****ing question.

at least that dumb Perez Hilton hasn't leaked a sex tape,:puke:

Bingo.

So you seem to know a bit about this tape...have you seen it? :D

[ljs]

Bingo.

So you seem to know a bit about this tape...have you seen it? :D

no :mad:.
I have the TMZ app on my iphone and read about it last night- they said she was alone in the tape. Pretty much figured that if she is alone, she can't be having sex with anyone but herself.

[Destino]

The problem with Carrie Prejean is that she played up her strong faith for example:


"This happened for a reason. By having to answer that question in front of a national audience, God was testing my character and faith," Prejean said. "I'm glad I stayed true to myself."

Was this sex tape a failed test by God?

Christian's need to learn how to communicate their faith humbly instead of putting themselves high enough to suffer a fall. The bible warns of this. She is a Christian like any other. Her faith is flawed as is the faith of almost anyone. There is no perfect person and thus no perfect Christian.

The reason this is funny is that she wanted her breast implants to be paid for, and queen holier-than-thou victim of evil gays was chased away from this demand when her sex tape came up. If she knew all this was going on she should have kept a low profile.

[Spartacus87]

I don't get why this girl gets hated on so much simply because she expressed a viewpoint that might not have been the most popular one. If anything she should be held up as an example for sticking up for what you believe in.

And no, I don't agree with what she said. I don't really get that aspect of it either.

Out of the whole Perez Hilton vs Carrie Prejean thing, I think Hilton came out looking like a bigger moron.

Especially after he got so worked about her response, and soon afterwards called Will.i.am. of the Black Eyed Peas the word he did.

[Destino]

I don't really get that aspect of it either.

Out of the whole Perez Hilton vs Carrie Prejean thing, I think Hilton came out looking like a bigger moron.

Especially after he got so worked about her response, and soon afterwards called Will.i.am. of the Black Eyed Peas the word he did.
I don't think Perez Hilton can look like more of a moron than he already does normally. I really hate that guy.

[skinsfan07]

She is hot though.

[Hubbs]

So, um... about viewing that tape... :D

[lovetoaster]

So, um... about viewing that tape... :D

Yeah...I would not mind seeing it. You know for scientific purposes and all :read:

[sacase]

The funny thing is, non christians make up the standards that they want to hold christians to. Since when is mastrabation against christianity? Once again the baseless liberal hate is obvious.

[aREDSKIN]

no :mad:.
I have the TMZ app on my iphone and read about it last night- they said she was alone in the tape. Pretty much figured that if she is alone, she can't be having sex with anyone but herself.


Mother lode of the obvious. :D

[Predicto]

I don't get why this girl gets hated on so much simply because she expressed a viewpoint that might not have been the most popular one. If anything she should be held up as an example for sticking up for what you believe in.



That may be why that jerk Perez Hilton hates her, but that is not the reason she is hated on by the rest of us.

She has become a symbol of the "woe is me I'm SOOO discriminated against because I'm a good Christian" bull that currently pervades our culture.

The rest of are really sick of hearing that nonsense from whiners who refuse to acknowledge that they are far the majority in this nation and are prominent in every possible position of power there is here.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That may be why that jerk Perez Hilton hates her, but that is not the reason she is hated on by the rest of us.

She has become a symbol of the "woe is me I'm SOOO discriminated against because I'm a good Christian" bull that currently pervades our culture.

The rest of are really sick of hearing that nonsense from whiners who refuse to acknowledge that they are far the majority in this nation and are prominent in every possible position of power there is here.

Well in her specific case, her Christianity and conservatism go hand in hand so a line is blurred there and its easy to make that claim.

Everyone likes to play the victim, Predicto. Liberals do it, conservatives do it. Christians do it, Muslims do it. I think the larger problem at hand is this prevailing attitude that it's alright to play the victim whenever an opportunity arises. Everyone wants people to come to their pity party.

[Predicto]

Well in her specific case, her Christianity and conservatism go hand in hand so a line is blurred there and its easy to make that claim.

Everyone likes to play the victim, Predicto. Liberals do it, conservatives do it. Christians do it, Muslims do it. I think the larger problem at hand is this prevailing attitude that it's alright to play the victim whenever an opportunity arises. Everyone wants people to come to their pity party.

Agreed, to a point.

But Prejean is the one who filed the million dollar lawsuit, so she has become a symbol of that problem, fair or not.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Agreed, to a point.

But Prejean is the one who filed the million dollar lawsuit, so she has become a symbol of that problem, fair or not.

Sure, I'll agree to that.

I just think it's crappy that she gets slammed cause she expressed an honest opinion. Like ljs said above, if you're gonna ask a question like that, be prepared to get an answer you might not like. Thats how this whole ****storm got started in the first place, let's not forget.

[sacase]

Well its a little bit of a misconception that she didn't get anything...she is allowed to publish her book with all the rights that go with it. That could potentially be more than a million dollars for her.

[Predicto]

Sure, I'll agree to that.

I just think it's crappy that she gets slammed cause she expressed an honest opinion. Like ljs said above, if you're gonna ask a question like that, be prepared to get an answer you might not like. Thats how this whole ****storm got started in the first place, let's not forget.

She got slammed by that dickbag Perez Hilton for it.

Everyone else I know defended her and her right to have her own opinions, including gay people. Mayor Gavin Newsom even defended her, and he is Mr. Gay Marriage.

But the right made her a huge cause celebre for how Christians are discriminated against. She was on Hannity and Greta Van Susterin and all the rest. It was like the "War on Christmas" nonsense all over again.

Then she filed her lawsuit, and, well, here we are now. She has become a symbol of something kind of irritating, and it is not just "speaking your mind."

[Predicto]

A Christian conservative who still had a Blonde moment.

And her opinion and stance on the Prop was and is correct as the majority of people in other cities and states have reflected at the ballot box in similar instances.

Yes, we have noted before how the majority tends to not give a crap about the minority.

I wonder how Brown v. Board of Education would have fared if it had been put up to a popular vote in 1954. ;)

[Prosperity]

She is hot though.

yes she is


so what if she's a dumb ass? She didn't become a model because of her keen intellect.

of course after she was treated unfairly she went on to become a total attention whore, and all around tool, can't say I approve of that. But the gay marriage quote is non issue as far as I'm concerned... though I am sure she is one of those hypocritical nominal Christians, but that's a pretty standard thing anyway.

[Chachie]

If only God's 2nd test of her "faith and resolve" were passed by Miss Prejean when the time came to actually exercise her faith in God and her resolve. If she made the tape, she wasn't obligated to show it to anyone but once that prospect was threatened by her enemies, she folded like a lawn chair and betrayed the very things she claims to be proud of.

Shame though. She is hot. Hotty-hot hotness heating up with hot heat.

[JimboDaMan]

If only God's 2nd test of her "faith and resolve" were passed by Miss Prejean when the time came to actually exercise her faith in God and her resolve. If she made the tape, she wasn't obligated to show it to anyone but once that prospect was threatened by her enemies, she folded like a lawn chair and betrayed the very things she claims to be proud of.

Shame though. She is hot. Hotty-hot hotness heating up with hot heat.I dunno. she does look good, esp the fewer clothes she's wearing. But after reading those emails from her to pageant officials I can't look at her without seeing one hard ***** with a superiority complex haughtily ordering around anybody she feels to be lower in the pecking order. She'd make a great Evil Queen.

[Seabee1973]

Yes, we have noted before how the majority tends to not give a crap about the minority.

I wonder how Brown v. Board of Education would have fared if it had been put up to a popular vote in 1954. ;)


Lets compare apples and apples not apples and oranges

[Forehead]

Well, as to the tape, I'll find it eventually. There isn't a celeb sex tape (that I cared about) that has eluded me yet if I put my mind to it.

I will find this for you eventually, this is my solemn vow. Unless someone else beats me to it, or it actually never gets released.

[prophet]

Why video tape this... I just don't get it? Do they not know it always makes out to the public.

This is moronic

[ljs]

I'm thinking the tape was made well before she was in the pagent business.

Does that make any difference? A younng, prob barely 18/19 yr old makes a lil self pleasure tape for a boyfriend. A few years later this **** happens and the tape is leaked to blackmail her. Any young person will make mistakes, regardless of religion. All people make mistakes, or do things they wish they hadn't. No reason to be so angry at her.

[twa]

Any young person will make mistakes, regardless of religion. All people make mistakes, or do things they wish they hadn't. No reason to be so angry at her.

But ain't ya required to be religiously and morally pure as snow to oppose gay marriage?

[Thiebear]

She should sue them for 1 million for blackmailing her into dropping the original case.

[aREDSKIN]

Yes, we have noted before how the majority tends to not give a crap about the minority.

I wonder how Brown v. Board of Education would have fared if it had been put up to a popular vote in 1954. ;)


I would think a lawyer wouldn't use the "supreme court " as a accurate moral arbiter given it's pretty abysmal history in such matters. Some cases were correct many were not. Dred Scott one of many that were not.

[Zguy28]

She got slammed by that dickbag Perez Hilton for it.

Everyone else I know defended her and her right to have her own opinions, including gay people. Mayor Gavin Newsom even defended her, and he is Mr. Gay Marriage.

But the right made her a huge cause celebre for how Christians are discriminated against. She was on Hannity and Greta Van Susterin and all the rest. It was like the "War on Christmas" nonsense all over again.

Then she filed her lawsuit, and, well, here we are now. She has become a symbol of something kind of irritating, and it is not just "speaking your mind."Maybe I'm out of the loop, but this is the first I've heard of this at all. And you know where I'm at on issues. :whoknows:

[SnyderShrugged]

If you're gonna make a sextape, don't tell us you're "religious", period. Or is this chic a typical "christian"?



why not? I'm very Christian and my wife and I have all sorts of bedroom fun, including vids.

whats the taboo for a Christian again? What, because we are faithful to God we dont have sex?

please.:doh:

[Zguy28]

why not? I'm very Christian and my wife and I have all sorts of bedroom fun, including vids.

whats the taboo for a Christian again? What, because we are faithful to God we dont have sex?

please.:doh::yikes: T....M....I

[MisterPinstripe]

why not? I'm very Christian and my wife and I have all sorts of bedroom fun, including vids.

whats the taboo for a Christian again? What, because we are faithful to God we dont have sex?

please.:doh:

Yeah really... Are Christians supposed to create children by splitting in two? God created all, so God created sex. God could have made sex not fun and just for procreation, but he made sex very fun. Why in the world would it not be Christian to have sex and lots of it?

[SnyderShrugged]

:yikes: T....M....I



what? everyone doesnt do that? LOL

[SnyderShrugged]

She isn't married



so?


she also isnt with anyone in the tape.

[sjinhan]

She isn't married

ditto... thats probably the real problem is... in terms of Christian values portion of it...

[SnyderShrugged]

ditto... thats probably the real problem is... in terms of Christian values portion of it...

Not all Christian's are against sex before marriage (I'm more liberal in that regard, meaning that Love is the key factor and not some Government license.)


I realize not everyone would agree with me though.

as an aside, I read a while ago that many of the translations of the bible were inaccurate due to terms not translating in perfection. One was the term "adultary" (whcih I think is the basis for no sex before marriage in many Christian's eyes). I learned that the hebrew definition of adultary was simply any action that causes the dissolution of a committed relationship.

[MisterPinstripe]

ditto... thats probably the real problem is... in terms of Christian values portion of it...

I am a little more conservative in this area than a lot of people, but while I think that it was a very bad idea for her to do that and question her doing it, there really isnt in issue when it comes to Christian values because she was alone. I would agree if she was actually having sex.

[TMK9973]

So i disagree with her and her answer. At the same time, she should be able to give any answer she wants. There was nothing wrong with her answer, other then I disagreed with it.

Lets face it, the tape wasn't used to say your hypocritical. The tape was used as blackmail. Plan and simply. it was "You sue us, and look at this tape that we might have to release"

[SkinInsite]

Vote for Prejean 2012. She takes family-values issues into her own hands.

[HailYeah]

The funny thing is, non christians make up the standards that they want to hold christians to. Since when is mastrabation against christianity? Once again the baseless liberal hate is obvious.

You didn't go to Catholic school, did you?

[Peeping Wizard]

Herring, Red. Definition:


If you're gonna make a sextape, don't tell us you're "religious", period. Or is this chic a typical "christian"?

[Chachie]

I'm thinking the tape was made well before she was in the pagent business.

Does that make any difference? A younng, prob barely 18/19 yr old makes a lil self pleasure tape for a boyfriend. A few years later this **** happens and the tape is leaked to blackmail her. Any young person will make mistakes, regardless of religion. All people make mistakes, or do things they wish they hadn't. No reason to be so angry at her.


Absolutely true. There's no reason to go on a campaign against the woman.

My only sarcastic reaction came from her not showing the same courage when faced with the tape as she showed when she decided to sue the pageant. If she truly felt she had been wronged by the pageant, then she should have said "Do what you will with the tape because it has nothing to do with you violating my right to free speech and the tape is my right to freedom of expression." Instead she just said, "Oops! Okay. Bye-bye." That's where her greed was exposed and her "faith and resolve" disappeared.




...But man she is red smokin' hot with a capital HOT. As in really hot.

[Dan T.]

If that sex tape gets released, it is going to trigger a whole lot more than settlement.

[sjinhan]

I am a little more conservative in this area than a lot of people, but while I think that it was a very bad idea for her to do that and question her doing it, there really isnt in issue when it comes to Christian values because she was alone. I would agree if she was actually having sex.

I am a Christian.. probably little more liberal than most...

yeah you are right.. if she was maybe making this for herself.. i can kind of deal with it as a personal thing...

However, if I had to guess.. she probably made it for boyfriend or someone else... if thats the case I am assuming.. then she is in the wrong for sure in terms of Christian values...

of course I am open to the idea that I can be wrong with my assumption...

[MisterPinstripe]

I am a Christian.. probably little more liberal than most...

yeah you are right.. if she was maybe making this for herself.. i can kind of deal with it as a personal thing...

However, if I had to guess.. she probably made it for boyfriend or someone else... if thats the case I am assuming.. then she is in the wrong for sure in terms of Christian values...

of course I am open to the idea that I can be wrong with my assumption...

I can agree with that. And yeah, it is an assumption, but it would make sense. I find it hard to imagine that she was doing that so she could watch it herself later.

And at the same time of course, people make mistakes.

[War Paint]

Link to the video that has no PC virus please :D

[SnyderShrugged]

The part thats taboo is the whole sex outside of marriage thing.

Who/what is she lusting after in order to accomplish what she's doing in the tape?


what does it matter? again, I know many Christians take that position, but not all of us.

Adultery is simply any action that causes the sisolution of a loving relationship between committed indivuals.

(original hebrew definition that was "lost in translation"

[DCranon21]

I'm just waiting on the tape to be released. :)

[MisterPinstripe]

what does it matter? again, I know many Christians take that position, but not all of us.

Adultery is simply any action that causes the sisolution of a loving relationship between committed indivuals.

(original hebrew definition that was "lost in translation"

But then doesnt it become an issue of fornication? Feel free to message me if you wish as I dont mean to turn this into a debate on the issue.

[ACW]

If that sex tape gets released, it is going to trigger a whole lot more than settlement.:laugh::jerk:

[techboy]

(original hebrew definition that was "lost in translation"

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong, here.

First, the texts are and were in Hebrew, so there's no "translation" to be lost in. What's more, this idea is especially off because Jews have an unbroken tradition of reading, studying, and teaching from the texts in Hebrew, so you're essentially suggesting that they somehow forgot (and then somebody remembered!) what the word in Hebrew actually means. The Hebrew word for adultery does not mean, and never has, the idea of "breaking up a committed relationship".

Second, what you probably did read is that in the Old Testament, adultery is specifically limited to sex between a married woman and a man not her husband, not the modern idea of any married person having sex with a person not his or her spouse. As a side note, in the New Testament Jesus expands the concept of adultery (and limits the legitimate reasons for divorce).

Finally, the reason Christians consider premarital sex to be a sin have little to do with the Old Testament definition of adultery, and more to do with the concepts of sexual sin and purity laid out by Jesus, Paul, and others in the New Testament.

This was written for teens, but it covers the basic verses (http://christianteens.about.com/od/whatthebiblesaysabout/f/Sex.htm).

[lovetoaster]

If that sex tape gets released, it is going to trigger a whole lot more than settlement.

Well, I think it would be worth it. For me, at least. :D

[TheLongshot]

The funny thing is, non christians make up the standards that they want to hold christians to. Since when is mastrabation against christianity? Once again the baseless liberal hate is obvious.

Actually, I think there is something in the Bible about it being against God's will to spill seed. Course, that only applies to men. God doesn't seem to have a problem with women masturbating. :D

[techboy]

Actually, I think there is something in the Bible about it being against God's will to spill seed.

That's not right either. Certain groups have attempted to make that passage about masturbation, but in point of fact, though Onan does spill his seed upon the ground, his sin was that he did this in defiance of God's command (he was supposed to do something else with it, so to speak :)).

Onan's sin was disobedience of God, not masturbation.

[TheLongshot]

That's not right either. Certain groups have attempted to make that passage about masturbation, but in point of fact, though Onan does spill his seed upon the ground, his sin was that he did this in defiance of God's command (he was supposed to do something else with it, so to speak :)).

Onan's sin was disobedience of God, not masturbation.

Thank you for expanding on that. I had forgotten the details.

While that might be the point of the passage, it wouldn't be the first time that those interpereting the Bible chose to interperet things in whatever agenda they have at the time. For better or worse, it is Christians doing that and giving Christians a bad rap.

[MisterPinstripe]

Thank you for expanding on that. I had forgotten the details.

While that might be the point of the passage, it wouldn't be the first time that those interpereting the Bible chose to interperet things in whatever agenda they have at the time. For better or worse, it is Christians doing that and giving Christians a bad rap.

Yeah, there are always going to be those who twist things or misinterpret for their own particular reason. The key to dealing with that is using the actual passage as proof if you will.

I actually know someone who had been taught before, they no longer believed this, that Sesame Street was evil because dolls are evil. Any sort of puppet was seen as horribly evil. There is some interesting stuff out there.

[Chachie]

If that video comes out, there will be seed on the ground all over the world.

[Blackest Eyes]

If that video comes out, there will be seed on the ground all over the world.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::h ysterical:

[rebornempowered]

And Jesus made it clear that purity is a matter of the heart, not just actions.

Uh, he said that looking at a woman lustfully was the same as committing adultery.

Therefore, he was saying your heart IS the problem. It is wretched and sinful.

[Predicto]

I'm thinking the tape was made well before she was in the pagent business.

Does that make any difference? A younng, prob barely 18/19 yr old makes a lil self pleasure tape for a boyfriend. A few years later this **** happens and the tape is leaked to blackmail her. Any young person will make mistakes, regardless of religion. All people make mistakes, or do things they wish they hadn't. No reason to be so angry at her.

No one is angry at her over this tape.

[Predicto]

That's not right either. Certain groups have attempted to make that passage about masturbation, but in point of fact, though Onan does spill his seed upon the ground, his sin was that he did this in defiance of God's command (he was supposed to do something else with it, so to speak :)).

Onan's sin was disobedience of God, not masturbation.

Dorothy Parker had a pet parakeet named Onan - because he always spilled his seed upon the ground.

[Destino]

If that video comes out, there will be seed on the ground all over the world.

I hope your guests are aware of this and keep their shoes on. :)

[Predicto]

Lets compare apples and apples not apples and oranges

I am.

The majority was perfectly happy to have blacks be second class citizens in 1954. If civil rights had been put to a popular vote, Brown v. Board would have lost miserably.

And so it is in 2009. The majority is perfectly happy to have gays be second class citizens.

You may not want there to be any parallel, but that doesn't mean that a parallel doesn't exist.

[Madison Redskin]

Found the video. NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/Miss-California-Sex-Tape

[Woofer]

Found the video. NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/Miss-California-Sex-Tape

DO NOT Click this link. I have it on good authority that it may result in blindness.

[FanboyOf91]

Found the video. NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/Miss-California-Sex-Tape

Goddamn!

[ljs]

No one is angry at her over this tape.
yes I know, they consider her a hypocrite. People got mad about her anti gay marriage comments. I was not one of them.

[War Paint]

Found the video. NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/Miss-California-Sex-Tape

Smokin! I'm never gonna give up this video!

[Predicto]

yes I know, they consider her a hypocrite. People got mad about her anti gay marriage comments. I was not one of them.

None of my many gay friends were upset at her either. They all thought that Perez Hilton was being a horrible tool.

[Hunter44]

Whats a typical Christian?

Gay marriage and a sex tape are two entirely different things.

I think it has more to do with the hypocrisy. Let's face it, if your going to try to run someone elses life by telling them what they can or can't do with their body or what goes on in their bedroom but then you get caught soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom (Larry Craig) , or trying to talk minors into a gay sex(Mark Foley)... or like Prejean, talk about family values and the Christian way but get busted on a sex tape. Priceless...:D

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

I think it has more to do with the hypocrisy. Let's face it, if your going to try to run someone elses life by telling them what they can or can't do with their body or what goes on in their bedroom

I don't see how not supporting gay marriage is the same as saying you don't believe gay people should be able to have sex with someone else who is also gay. Thus, there's really not hypocrisy here. The funny thing about people who love to find hypocrisy with Christians (funny not so much with other people in the world who may have beliefs of their own and not always live up to them) is that implicit is the idea that one should have no standards simply because people fail to live up to the standards that major moral codes set. We are all hypocrites, as none of us is perfectly consistent or perfectly adhere to our often shifting morals and standards.

In fact, I'd reckon a large percentage of gay marriage opponents, whatever their ultimate views on homosexuality, would not support laws against homosexual acts.

[Hunter44]

In many states sodomy is a crime...

[ACW]

In many states sodomy is a crime...Not since before Lawrence v. Texas.

[Hunter44]

Not since before Lawrence v. Texas.

Interesting, this was only a few years ago. Thanks for the heads up!!

[boofMcboof]

I don't see how not supporting gay marriage is the same as saying you don't believe gay people should be able to have sex with someone else who is also gay. Thus, there's really not hypocrisy here. The funny thing about people who love to find hypocrisy with Christians (funny not so much with other people in the world who may have beliefs of their own and not always live up to them) is that implicit is the idea that one should have no standards simply because people fail to live up to the standards that major moral codes set. We are all hypocrites, as none of us is perfectly consistent or perfectly adhere to our often shifting morals and standards.


I agree that the point here isn't hypocrisy, it's the self-righteousness of it all that gets people all riled up.

[Larry]

I don't see how not supporting gay marriage is the same as saying you don't believe gay people should be able to have sex with someone else who is also gay. Thus, there's really not hypocrisy here. The funny thing about people who love to find hypocrisy with Christians (funny not so much with other people in the world who may have beliefs of their own and not always live up to them) is that implicit is the idea that one should have no standards simply because people fail to live up to the standards that major moral codes set. We are all hypocrites, as none of us is perfectly consistent or perfectly adhere to our often shifting morals and standards.

Or maybe it's the idea that people who refuse to live up to their own morals shouldn't demand that the government impose their morals on everybody else, and claim that they're justified in doing so because of their superior morality.

Just a thought. :)

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

In many states sodomy is a crime...

Remember that sodomy was a crime even for heterosexuals, dude. Including BJs depending on the state. Those were probably laws that weren't even aimed at gays at their commencement.

I'd still say most gay marriage opponents are not for banning sex acts between men or women. Some? Sure. Most? I don't think most even want to prevent one man from spending his time (and being sexual) with another--not legally.

I would prefer everyone have civil unions and your various church/social/ethnic group can call it a "marriage" if it likes.

As for self-righteousness, the people who have tended to exhibit the most of it of late (though oddly they have a lot of courage in picketing and threatening Mormons and white Catholics--not so much going to the hood to intimidate black Baptists---cowards lol) have been the people who are gay marriage proponents.

I've encountered a number of secular arguments against gay marriage, by the way, so while Prejean invoked religion, it's not necessary.

As for the comparison to segregation, I'm not so sure. At one time in human history, races intermingled fairly regularly. Marriage between members of the same sex is a fairly recent innovation--even considering the ancient cultures that had less of a problem with homosexual acts than we do. But that's probably because marriage was not viewed as the fulfillment of personal individual desires but a social institution serving other purposes (well, it channeled personal desires, I guess.)

It will come, eventually, but proponents are better asking for civil unions. It doesn't help that a number of advocates laid out the argument that gay marriage is a form of social Trojan Horse with the intent to challenge norms, society and to remake it (with the intent of normalization or wider sexual diversity, I don't know for sure. Depends who you ask.)


I'd add that people like Elton John and other gays have questioned the idea--it's not all religious in nature (the opposition.)

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Or maybe it's the idea that people who refuse to live up to their own morals shouldn't demand that the government impose their morals on everybody else, and claim that they're justified in doing so because of their superior morality.


It depends on the context. Most of the cries of "hypocrite" have had little to do with the gay marriage or even pornography/prostitution debates. Craig was rightly skewered for the contradiction in his political conduct and his behavior. But not every situation is identical, I'm not so sure this one is the same.

Morality is legislated all the time. The appropriate argument is that personal sexual morality should not be legislated but that's not really the controversy here either, even if for some, it ultimately derives from that same source (and even if proponents wish to portray it as such.)

Like it or not, marriage is in for some change and has changed over time. Eventually, it will either move beyond "civil unions" or everyone will move to such "domestic union" ideas, and it will be more individual and out of the hands of the state--which is how it should be.

[ACW]

It's like gay sex is wrong.
:jerk: is ok.
I prefer :jerk: to lesbian porn :laugh:

[Larry]

Yes, I'm aware that lots of the folks who are out there passing unequal rights amendments to every state constitution they can find will claim that they aren't prejudiced, because they don't think being gay should be criminal.

Now.

The road to equal treatment is never (AFAIK) a single, quantum event. It's always a long, drawn-out campaign.

And every time the losers lose, they always fall back to a new position, and prepare themselves to fight the next battle, readying their arguments of "Well, OK, so now you've become a bit closer to freedom. But I'm not going to let you have this right."

Frankly, IMO, if there's one sure-fire way to spot somebody who wants to discriminate, it's the line "I'm not prejudiced. I've got no problem with (some right which they won a decade ago). I just don't want them to have (any other fight that they haven't won yet)."

The Justice of the Peace who refused to perform an interracial marriage, made a point of pointing out that he permits blacks into his home, and even allows them to use his bathrooms.

----------

I'll also observe that civil rights isn't the only "theater" where I see this behavior.

A lot of people who used to be of the opinion that it was blatantly obvious that there will never be any possible practical use for space technology, later had no problem declaring that well, it was always blindingly obvious that there were valuable uses for satellites in Earth orbit, but it's blindingly obvious that there cannot possibly be any reason to develop any further technology.

I'd also point to the transition from "global warming isn't happening" to "it's impossible to ever prove that global warming is happening" to "well, OK, it's happening, but there's no proof that pollution is causing it" to "well, OK, it's happening, but can anybody prove that it's a bad thing?" Or the transition from "evolution doesn't happen" to "well, everybody knows that evolution happens, but it only happens so far, and not further".

(I'm trying to think of a corresponding series of quotes to refer to the "evolution" of Redskins fandom, recently. But it's too painful.)

[Chachie]

It's a hot pageant queen who lost her cool, tried to capitalize, and lost her bid. Nothing more to see here. (Except that video. Anyone?Bueller?)

Hot, I say.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

It's like gay sex is wrong.
:jerk: is ok.
I prefer :jerk: to lesbian porn :laugh:

I don't get lesbo porn at all.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/God-kills-kitten.jpg

[ACW]

I don't get lesbo porn at all.:insane:
Two hot chicks=win

WVU, God's an :cuss: then :mad:

Retaliation: http://www.senocular.com/pub/images/humor/think-of-the-domokun.jpg (F-word)

[DeanCollins]

3 pages of dissecting virtues and none of you geniuses have found the video tape? :silly:

[E-Dog Night]

3 pages of dissecting virtues and none of you geniuses have found the video tape? :silly:

Seriously. Forget pictures. This thread is useless without full length HD video.



I don't get lesbo porn at all.

That's like saying "I don't get piping hot Krispy Kreme donuts at all". There's nothing to 'get'. Just enjoy the awesome.

[Forehead]

3 pages of dissecting virtues and none of you geniuses have found the video tape? :silly:

Sorry for the bump, didn't want to start a brand new thread. I think I may have found it...I'm attempting to verify authenticity.

[sjinhan]

Sorry for the bump, didn't want to start a brand new thread. I think I may have found it...I'm attempting to verify authenticity.

i volunteer to help you authenticate the find.. send it over...

PM me.. seriously :cool2:

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SERIOUSLY

[Xameil]

The funny thing is, non christians make up the standards that they want to hold christians to. Since when is mastrabation against christianity? Once again the baseless liberal hate is obvious.

there are several christians that believe masterbation is a sin....this is not a non-christian assumption of christians.

[DCranon21]

Now this thread has some legs once again. :D

[skinsfan07]

Sorry for the bump, didn't want to start a brand new thread. I think I may have found it...I'm attempting to verify authenticity.

pm? I'll double check to see if it is indeed legit.

[Toe Jam]

I've got it. No lies.

But I'm not sharing. Not here.

If you're smart this is where you check my profile and find out my AIM or Yahoo username.

[Skinswego]

I've got it. No lies.

But I'm not sharing. Not here.

If you're smart this is where you check my profile and find out my AIM or Yahoo username.

I see your AIM but not your yahoo name or am I missing it?

[Toe Jam]

Nope. This isn't it. Not the one I have, anyway. Forehead may have the right one. I don't know.

Sorry for the false alarm guys.

[Skinswego]

Forehead where are you ;)

[sjinhan]

i bet the one he has aint it either... if it dont pop up when you google it then it dont exist in the public forum haha

[Hubbs]

I would prefer everyone have civil unions and your various church/social/ethnic group can call it a "marriage" if it likes.

It's astonishing how many people I can see support this without seeing a single notable politician support it.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

there are several christians that believe masterbation is a sin....this is not a non-christian assumption of christians.

Completely off topic, but I knew this girl in school growing up whose family were real hardcore Jews. So she wouldn't have sex but would let guys enter through the backdoor. I guess she felt that she was technically not losing her virginity. Or something. True story.

[Forehead]

i bet the one he has aint it either... if it dont pop up when you google it then it dont exist in the public forum haha

Bite your tounge son, for you know not...to whom you speak. Let me explain something to you.

We are all given a purpose when we are born. When I came into this world in late 1979, I was given one goal, one task. And that task was to ferret out every single female celebrity (american) sex video that existed, for the good of mankind. You could argue that "The Internet hadn't been invented yet" or "celebrity sex tapes weren't common" or some other meaningless point.

Foresight my son...the good man above had the foresight to know that these things would come to pass, and that my task would go on as scheduled. And go on it has. Erin Andrews...check. Kim Kardashian...check. Pam and Tommy...check. The Jenna Lewis Honeymoon video...check. If it is on the Internet somewhere, I will find it. This is my solemn vow. I have even sacrificed my damn eyes viewing the "One Night in Chyna" video out of morbid curiosity.

Oddly enough, I don't even care for porn that much. Sure, I wnjoy watching a good lesbian romp, sororities have to be good for something other than wearing matching outfits. But celebrity tapes I find fascinating for some reason.

As stated, I have come into posession of a video with Prejean's name in the title, and am attempting to verify authenticity. To do any less would compromise the high standards of celebrity sex sleuthing to which I hold myself. In other words, I PM'd Toe Jam to compare tapes. How much of a letdown would it be if I were to be wrong? Why, you all would never trust me again. "There goes that Forehead" you'll say..."passing out links to videos of random amateurs we could care less about." NO....you demand the real thing, and I demand it of myself.

At this point, I can't vouch for authenticity, but once I hear back from Toe Jam, I'll get the video to whoever I see PM's from.

*My speech is now over. If you were wondering "Should I start a slow clap, like in Rudy" then my answer is absolutely, you should start a slow clap.

[JMS]

I am.

The majority was perfectly happy to have blacks be second class citizens in 1954. If civil rights had been put to a popular vote, Brown v. Board would have lost miserably.

And so it is in 2009. The majority is perfectly happy to have gays be second class citizens.

You may not want there to be any parallel, but that doesn't mean that a parallel doesn't exist.

I think that's an important point. Most people think Democracy and Republic are interchangeable. They aren't. It's no accident the founding fathers created a Republic and not a Democracy.

The entire idea behind a Republic is to protect society against the tyranny of the majority. Plato, the man who first concieved of a Republic saw his proffessor Sacrates forced to commit suicide because of persecution from the majority. That's why he despised democracies and it's exactly why he created a new form of representative government. One in which the majority expressly does not have total authority.

The founding fathers were very concerned with the tyranny of the majority too. That's why they didn't allow straight votes for public office, like the President, Senate or Congress. It's why even today we don't. People vote for representatives who vote for elected officials. Also People don't decide issues, elected officials do. It's also why the constitution sets out rules for everybody regardless of race, creed or religion. Because the founding fathers never trusted the people to look out for the rights of minorities.

It's the genius of our constitution. How to create a government when you don't trust anybody. Not the people, not the people who elect the people, and not the elected officials who make many of the decisions.

[Dan T.]

Bite your tounge son, for you know not...to whom you speak. Let me explain something to you.

We are all given a purpose when we are born. When I came into this world in late 1979, I was given one goal, one task. And that task was to ferret out every single female celebrity (american) sex video that existed, for the good of mankind. You could argue that "The Internet hadn't been invented yet" or "celebrity sex tapes weren't common" or some other meaningless point.

Foresight my son...the good man above had the foresight to know that these things would come to pass, and that my task would go on as scheduled. And go on it has. Erin Andrews...check. Kim Kardashian...check. Pam and Tommy...check. The Jenna Lewis Honeymoon video...check. If it is on the Internet somewhere, I will find it. This is my solemn vow. I have even sacrificed my damn eyes viewing the "One Night in Chyna" video out of morbid curiosity.

Oddly enough, I don't even care for porn that much. Sure, I wnjoy watching a good lesbian romp, sororities have to be good for something other than wearing matching outfits. But celebrity tapes I find fascinating for some reason.

As stated, I have come into posession of a video with Prejean's name in the title, and am attempting to verify authenticity. To do any less would compromise the high standards of celebrity sex sleuthing to which I hold myself. In other words, I PM'd Toe Jam to compare tapes. How much of a letdown would it be if I were to be wrong? Why, you all would never trust me again. "There goes that Forehead" you'll say..."passing out links to videos of random amateurs we could care less about." NO....you demand the real thing, and I demand it of myself.

At this point, I can't vouch for authenticity, but once I hear back from Toe Jam, I'll get the video to whoever I see PM's from.

*My speech is now over. If you were wondering "Should I start a slow clap, like in Rudy" then my answer is absolutely, you should start a slow clap.


Godspeed, Forehead. A nation of horny men salutes you for your service.

[KingGibbs]

Everytime I see the thread title I think of the days when my girlfriend and I were humping each other while wearing our Jordache.

[Thiebear]

I still don't see how this is anything other than being blackmailed?

She had a legal suite against a company.
They told her to drop the suite or they would show here masterbation video to the world?
She drops the suite..

Isn't that the definition of blackmail?
AND last i checked it's not illegal to do that, so...
and its going to come out anyway, so get back in there and get whats yours.

[Elessar78]

I don't think I would consider it a sex tape, she is masturbating and is alone in the tape. And you wanna tell me that people who go to church and consider themselves christians never do something like this? No reason to crucify her (no pun intended). She was treated unfairly for her honest answer. If you don't really want an honest answer, then don't ask the ****ing question.

at least that dumb Perez Hilton hasn't leaked a sex tape,:puke:

I hope Perez Hilton never leaks a sex tape. Paris on the other hand...

But really, I guess you have to know your audience when you answer that question at the pageant. You have to know that honest answers aren't what they're looking for, they want contestants to go with the formulaic answer.

[JMS]

It's astonishing how many people I can see support this without seeing a single notable politician support it.

That's because it's stupid. Separate but equal works only in theory, never in practice; especially for something so complex.

There are literally hundreds of years of legal precident associated with the word marriage. Hundreds if not thousands of legal rights tied to that word. It would be impossible to create an equivalence across thousands of compartmentalized governments which would all have to subscribe and support such a policy. The advocates of civil union know that perfectly well.

A civil union isn't equivalent. A civil union just doesn't offer the same security. Nothing like the same security on issues like retirement, hospital policies, living wills, insurance, divorce etc...

Fact is marriage licenses are and have been issued by the state for centuries. Why isn't a secular justice of the peace issuing a secular marriage license, secular enough for the civil union crowd?

Easy, because the civil union crowd either fundamentally misunderstands the issue, or they are fundamentally dishonest and are trying to craft a solution which is inherently discriminatory and maintains the status quoe.

[MattFancy]

*slow clap*

[JMS]

People who have no morals shouldn't expect the government to sanction immorality either

Morals change based upon religion. Many religions and religious folks don't believe homosexuality is immoral. Certainly not as immoral as some things heterosexually people do all the time legally. Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods for example.

Likewise, there are religions like Islam which believe representations of living creatures are immoral. Orthodox Christians who believe representations of christ, which aren't iconic, are idoliterous and thus immoral. Budists who believe eating beef is immoral.

Frankly, every religion can point to behaviors by patrons of other religions they question upon their own religous grounds. Sects of Christianity are no different.

I'm Catholic for example; In Catholism it is considered moral to steal food for yourself or your family if you are starving. Does that mean since Catholism is the largest single religious group in the US we should change our laws?

[JMS]

I still don't see how this is anything other than being blackmailed?

She had a legal suite against a company.
They told her to drop the suite or they would show here masterbation video to the world?
She drops the suite..

Isn't that the definition of blackmail?
AND last i checked it's not illegal to do that, so...
and its going to come out anyway, so get back in there and get whats yours.

#1, When a lawyer does it they probable know how to word it so it doesn't fit the definition of blackmail. Even if that's exactly what they were doing.

#2 She probable had a morals clause in her contract anyway. Having this image blasted across the internet likely would have triggered such a clause and denied her her title legally anyway.

[JMS]

What major religion doesn't???

Anglicans, Episcoples, Methodists, Unitarians, Eastern Orthodox, United Church of Canada, United Church of Christ, Conservative and Reform Judaism.



Yet Religious people called out or are calling out Tiger woods for their actions


Three thoughts.

#1 Haven't heard any objections to Tiger based upon religious grounds.

#2 Haven't heard any voices seeking to jail Tiger based upon his immoral acts.

#3 Haven't heard any voices seeking to deny Tiger the right to marrage because of his immoral acts.



just like so called liberal Catholic politicians voting for late term abortions and not passing legislation to keep pedophiles in prison for more than 5 years.

Homosexuality != Late term abortions != pedophile

There is no parrellel or equivelence there.

Heck most of the pedophiles discovered on the hill over the last two decades have been conservative republicans.




Pointing out bad behaviour by poster childs for immorality doesn't make other immorality acceptable.


The issue isn't speaking out. The issue is why is one behavior illegal, and yet the other is not? Speaking out isn't the issue.





Heck clueless immoral people wanted to equate Clinton cheating to that of the average scumbag (its no big deal just sex) when he was the president of the USA.

Well I would argue it was never about Cheating. It was always about sexual harrasement. The patern was women who submitted or didn't cause problems for Bill got huge pay raises and jobs they weren't otherwise qualified for and women who didn't lost the jobs which they were qualified for. Which is a crime in this country.

[ACW]

ND just got :owned:

[Chachie]

And now back to our regularly scheduled video hunt...

Paging Forehead, paging Dr. Vidfinder Forehead.

[daveakl]

http://tinyurl.com/davestape

DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT OR THEY WILL PULL IT.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Completely off topic, but I knew this girl in school growing up whose family were real hardcore Jews. So she wouldn't have sex but would let guys enter through the backdoor. I guess she felt that she was technically not losing her virginity. Or something. True story.
And you know this from first hand experience?

[Forehead]

DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT OR THEY WILL PULL IT.

Can't compare it to mine till I get home, but be careful about linking to stuff like this. Mods look down on it. Stick to PM's.

[Toe Jam]

Can't compare it to mine till I get home, but be careful about linking to stuff like this. Mods look down on it. Stick to PM's.

It's a rick roll.:mad:

[KingGibbs]

http://tinyurl.com/davestape

DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT OR THEY WILL PULL IT.

Holy ****! That was hot! I need a cold shower.

[Hunter44]

Well I would argue it was never about Cheating. It was always about sexual harrasement. The patern was women who submitted or didn't cause problems for Bill got huge pay raises and jobs they weren't otherwise qualified for and women who didn't lost the jobs which they were qualified for. Which is a crime in this country.

Actually, it was about him lying... :doh: I love revisionist history...:silly:

[Botched]

Bite your tounge son, for you know not...to whom you speak. Let me explain something to you...

...

*My speech is now over. If you were wondering "Should I start a slow clap, like in Rudy" then my answer is absolutely, you should start a slow clap.


:hysterical:

[JMS]

Actually, it was about him lying... :doh: I love revisionist history...:silly:

I used to know Bills girls by heart as every American did.

But the Paula girl with the big nose was sueing bill for sexual harrasment. Bill lied under oath to avoid being prosecuted for sexual harrasement... Her lawyers were seeking testmony from Bills other girls to show the pattern that women who submitted got huge raises and job promotions they weren't qualified for; while their client got fired from a job which she had held since before bill became governor..

Monica went from unpaid intern at WH to six figure wall street job set up by Vernon Jordan the Presidents friend.

Another Chick, foget her name, went from unpaid volenteer at the WH, to NATO arms negotiator on permanent junket to Europe.


Bill got impeached for lieing about the "affair"..... but the real offense was he was lieing to cover up was not the affair but was the the "sexual harrasment" charge. The affair was an embarrasment. The Sexual Harrasment charge was always the real issue Bill was trying to get out of.

It was the real crime which the country never really came to grips with. The Paula chick in question did a spread in PB and was "unsypathetic"; and she was poor and couldn't afford to pursue the case anylonger. So the country dismissed her while Bill painted her as a tramp, right wing conspirator, and trailer trash not worthy of legal protections from a serial sexual preditor.

Bill ended up settling out of court with the woman as I remember. She got about a million bucs, which went all for lawyers fees.

[Hunter44]

Yeah, I'm picking up on what you're laying down but all of that is, well, not entirely proven or provable. People get their friends jobs all the time, its always about who you know and in many cases, who you blow. :hysterical:

[mjah]

Fact is marriage licenses are and have been issued by the state for centuries. Why isn't a secular justice of the peace issuing a secular marriage license, secular enough for the civil union crowd?
Perhaps because the "secular" definition of marriage is driven by religious impositions including the no-gay-people rule, which is fundamentally discriminatory in a secular government?

So they're looking for a way to have the same marriage rights for all without stepping on the toes of those who refuse to allow the term "marriage" to be nondiscriminatory based on sexual orientation?


Easy, because the civil union crowd either fundamentally misunderstands the issue, or they are fundamentally dishonest and are trying to craft a solution which is inherently discriminatory and maintains the status quoe.I see it as quite the opposite: "civil union" is a measure to leave the definition of "union" to the government regardless of sexual orientation, while leaving the definition of "marriage" to the church. And it's not separate-but-equal at all.

The most convincing arguments I hear for civil unions totally dismiss the idiotic idea of having two different standards for marriage (i.e., straights get married and gays get unioned). Everyone gets a union in the eyes of the secular government, with the very same rights and privileges you've mentioned in your post. If your church calls it a marriage, that's great. Your religion is completely untouched by the secular issue of being able to visit hospital bedsides, retire, get insurance options, etc. which is exactly how it's supposed to be. And your government is completely untouched by your church's idea of what marriage is -- which is also how it ought to be in a secular republic.

If "marriage" has to be Find/Replaced by "union" in law, then so be it.

I do find it interesting that depending on how one reads your take on civil unions, your post might be interpreted as belittling "separate but equal" in favor of "separate and definitely unequal." As I don't really know your position on gay marriage, I'm not sure how to take it. I'm sure it's just happenstance, but your post could be read as a vigorous defense of gay marriage by that name, or a vigorous rejection of gay anything by any name. I'm sure you intended solely one interpretation and not the other! Based on thread context I'm tempted to assume the former, but I hate to assume.

[Hubbs]

That's because it's stupid. Separate but equal works only in theory, never in practice; especially for something so complex.

There are literally hundreds of years of legal precident associated with the word marriage. Hundreds if not thousands of legal rights tied to that word. It would be impossible to create an equivalence across thousands of compartmentalized governments which would all have to subscribe and support such a policy. The advocates of civil union know that perfectly well.

A civil union isn't equivalent. A civil union just doesn't offer the same security. Nothing like the same security on issues like retirement, hospital policies, living wills, insurance, divorce etc...

Fact is marriage licenses are and have been issued by the state for centuries. Why isn't a secular justice of the peace issuing a secular marriage license, secular enough for the civil union crowd?

Easy, because the civil union crowd either fundamentally misunderstands the issue, or they are fundamentally dishonest and are trying to craft a solution which is inherently discriminatory and maintains the status quoe.

Um... hi. I wasn't referring to "separate but equal." I was referring to the government getting out of the business of declaring marriage, period. The legal rights go under a "civil union" title for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. Churches can have their ceremonies and their declarations of a religious "marriage" between whoever they damn well please.

[Forehead]

Alright guys, after careful viewing, I'm not sure if mine is the real deal. In case you want to make your own judgments, go to LobsterTube and type the word "Prejean" into the search field.

You should get one search result, a grainy low light video somewhat similar to the original Paris Hilton tape, but a little clearer. The light is what makes it hard to tell. Also, I'm suspicious of the blurred out website name in the upper right.

I've seen this claimed as the real deal in a couple of locations, but I'm still skeptical. Let me know what you guys think.

[Toe Jam]

Alright guys, after careful viewing, I'm not sure if mine is the real deal. In case you want to make your own judgments, go to LobsterTube and type the word "Prejean" into the search field.

You should get one search result, a grainy low light video somewhat similar to the original Paris Hilton tape, but a little clearer. The light is what makes it hard to tell. Also, I'm suspicious of the blurred out website name in the upper right.

I've seen this claimed as the real deal in a couple of locations, but I'm still skeptical. Let me know what you guys think.

I don't know. It's almost impossible to tell.

Anyone know if Prejean has a cat?

[ACW]

Anyone know if Prejean has a cat?I certainly HOPE she's not a dude :silly:

[Forehead]

I don't know. It's almost impossible to tell.

Anyone know if Prejean has a cat?

I noticed that too, but wasn't this tape made years ago? Anyway, it's the best I've found so far; the most likely to be real.

[Toe Jam]

I noticed that too, but wasn't this tape made years ago? Anyway, it's the best I've found so far; the most likely to be real.

I'm surprised it got leaked there though. I'd think it would have hit the torrent sites are at least PornHub before some unknown site.