Worst OL in Redskins History?

[bulldog]

The offensive line is coming up as perhaps the major factor in the inability of the Redskins to be competitive for 60 minutes in 2009. 6 sacks against the Eagles, 5 today against the Falcons. That's more than the 1991 Redskins gave up in 16 games.

Vinny Cerrato claims he had put together a playoff caliber roster prior to the season, but the reality of what has happened on the OL is evidence that not only is that not the case but it very well may be the ultimate evidence of his own incompetence and poor planning.

Randy Thomas had multiple surgeries in the offseason including one to fix a severe neck problem. There were questions all along as to whether Thomas at 33 could be counted on to play a grueling 16 game schedule even if 100% healthy, which he was not.

Similarly, Chris Samuels turned 32 and despite his general high level of play in 2009 was perhaps a half-step below what he had been in previous years getting to the edge against the better speed rushers the team faced.

With these question marks out there, Cerrato decided to depend for depth upon players that had either been discarded by their previous clubs (Bridges - Carolina) or were former practice squaders (Montgomery, Batiste) who had really never established themselves at the NFL level. In a final move, the team made what can only be described as a GAMBIT in employing Mike Williams and hoping that after dropping 100 pounds and being away from the game since 2005 could provide insurance on the outside.

In terms of talent, this is one of the shortest benches I have seen in a long time.

Bridges was cut. Batiste played one half when Samuels went down and was then quickly replaced the next week. Rinehart, a #3 pick lasted less than 3 games before being pulled permanently in place of Will Montgomery, whose NFL future is really at center not guard.

How could things be any worse?

Levi Jones, recently signed, has 89 starts on his resume at LT. The trouble is he doesn't know the offense and isn't in game shape. The Bengals over the past few years were also a team that allowed a lot of sacks.

Jones has to be better than Mike Williams and Stephon Heyer at this point. Butt this is like going from way below average to simply average.

Is that change going to really protect Campbell against the likes of Demarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman?

I have been watching the Redskins since I was a tyke in 1971 and I really can't remember a year in which the offensive line was this poor.

If Samuels does indeed retire, I see only one player, Dockery, that warrants any thought to being brought back in 2010.

Rabach is a free agent and at 32 has become a holding machine inside. He has halted more Redskins red zone drives than opposing defenses.

I don't expect to see Randy Thomas at 34 back.

Heyer and Montgomery are backups.

Rinehart is not long for the NFL IMO. A new GM or coach will let him go. The fact Bugel said Rinehart improved 100% from 2008 is scary given how poorly he played early on this season.

The organization of depth on the OL can be laid at the feet of Cerrato as I don't think there is any way that Dan Snyder on his own knows enough to go out and pull a Will Montgomery or D'Anthony Batiste off the street and sign them to play here.

Those were front office moves, no matter how feeble in retrospect they ended up being. Snyder trusted somebody that these guys could be counted on as at least capable depth.

And the outcome of these decisions has been catastrophic.

A smarter team would have seen the potential holes and injury problems of the OL going INTO the offseason and saved the cap dollars spent on Haynesworth to address a NUMBER of areas of need.

The team could have signed Cris Canty at DT and gone to draft Orakpo as they did at DE and the team's DL would have been improved. Perhaps not as much on the pass rush as it is with AH inside, but I would argue the team would be better against the run than it has been.

At the same time money would have been available to find an experienced guard who could compete with Randy Thomas on the right side and perhaps make Randy the depth player there.

Tackle could have been addressed in Round 3 instead of drafting yet another cornerback after the team already had Rogers, Hall, Smoot, Tryon, etc. on the roster. What chance was there that Barnes was going to see time in 2009?

The talent has been as mis-managed here since Gibbs left as it was in Miami before Parcells arrived.

The coach, Cam Cameron, was in over his head. The team drafted guys that either couldn't play (Beck) or were corrosive in the locker room (Chambers).

Parcells cleaned house and went from 1-15 to 11-5.

That cleanup needs to be happen here in 2010.

Cerrato cannot explain the situation on the OL in a way that can be defended against anyone that has been a follower of the game for any length of time.

[skinsfanno9]

I've only been watching since '77, but cannot remember an Oline that looked anywhere this bad. I'm guessing there may have been some earlier versions that came close, but I'd certainly agree this is is the worse offensive line in the past 30+ years.

[bulldog]

and the cupboard is bare. there are no younger players that project to help the team in the future.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Arguably, but regardless; from HC/OC on down to every last one of them that play a part on the field, it's the worst offense in Redskins history, PERIOD!

Hail.

[JeepRyder]

When it looked like Heyer was hurt and might go out I thought wow this is about to really get ugly. As if it wasnt bad enough.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Yes, yes, and another yes in case one of the first yes' were not understood. The line is an embarrassment. I understand these guys are trying, and playing as hard as they can, but come on, they are abysmal.

[skinsfanno9]

I remember getting heckled here during preseason for pointing out how sucky and wafer-thin our Oline looked them. I'm guessing those folks have since re-evaluated things...

[Santana_89]

Without question:(

[Thinking Skins]

What I don't get is how we don't adjust, or how it takes so long to adjust. Its like the line we have (as horrible as it is) can look good in stretches (second half against ATL, first half against Philly) and horrible in stretches (first half against ATL, second half against PHIlly). I mean, is the problem talent? cohesion? chemistry? reps?

And why is it that we're still calling the 5-7 step drops instead of moving to more quick throws? I'd like to see more screens (particularly to Thomas) and especially runs. Portis sucking has something to do with the lack of runs though. Betts came in there and suddenly our OL looked like they could play ball. Its well known that most OL-men prefer run blocking than pass blocking. Maybe the problem is that we need Betts in there instead of Portis cause he can get yards. Maybe Portis should be the third down/situational back.

[Hunter_R]

The '07 line was pretty dismal. Todd Wade and Stephon Heyer on the right side. Then again, Heyer is now one of the starters.

[bulldog]

I always believed since the end of last season that the club needed to rebuild BOTH OL and DL.

What I didn't expect was that the team would so narrowly focus on one and neglect the other.

Drafting Orakpo was a good move as was taking Jarmon in the supplemental draft.

The team made positive moves here for now and the future.

But the Haynesworth deal was a mistake. The Redskins simply weren't that close to contending to put all the financial eggs in one basket.

The Redskins could have signed Cris Canty at DT to provide some additional muscle and saved enough to still go out and sign better players for the OL.

Instead the Redskins offseason was basically over after the AH and DH signings.

[flexxskins]

I haven't read bulldog's quote yet because I have to jet out real quick, but I just wanted to say that this might very well be the worst o-line I've ever seen.

When D'Anthony Batiste and Will Montgomery are on our o-line we are absolutely horrible. IMO those two players shouldn't even be in the league.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

were you not around when Helton was here? Ramsey is lucky to be alive. While scheme has somthing to do with it. This is not the worse O line we have ever had.

[Thinking Skins]

But the Haynesworth deal was a mistake. The Redskins simply weren't that close to contending to put all the financial eggs in one basket.

The Redskins could have signed Cris Canty at DT to provide some additional muscle and saved enough to still go out and sign better players for the OL.

Instead the Redskins offseason was basically over after the AH and DH signings.

I'll add to that what I was predicting in the offseason - that with the addition of Haynesworth, the team was predicting the defense to be 2000 Ravens-esque and if it wasn't then we'd struggle (though I didn't predict this badly).

[Koolblue13]

Yes, FO is bad and has neglected the O line.

[skinsfanno9]

were you not around when Helton was here? Ramsey is lucky to be alive. While scheme has somthing to do with it. This is not the worse O line we have ever had.

Two problems with that: First, Ramsey held the ball forever. Second and more importantly, we were able to run the ball then. This Oline sucks even worse on run blocking than it does pass defense.

Yes, that line was FAR from optimal, but wasn't nearly as bad as the fetid, stinking pile of sub-par quality lineman we are stuck with today...

[skinfan2k]

Heck, even Vinny said in a interview he didn't expect Randy to be healthy for all 16 games, so why not have a solid backup plan?

[Mark The Homer]

I think when you have a FO which is basically playing fantasy football - It follows naturally you're going to end up with the worst OL.

I think the question may be better worded: Worst FO in Redskins History?

The answer, of course, is Yes. Absolutely.

[skinsfanno9]

I think when you have a FO which is basically playing fantasy football - It follows naturally you're going to end up with the worst OL.

I think the question may be better worded: Worst FO in Redskins History?

The answer, of course, is Yes. Absolutely.

Exactly!!!! The only solution we have with the current FO, is to convince Yahoo Sports' Fantasy Football team to find a way to generate points for Olinemen. If Olinemen become an options in fantasy football, we might actually end up drafting a real Olineman. If not, Snyder will never improve this spot.

[Koolblue13]

Well, I bet they will do a mass drafting of O line players this offseason, like we have done the last two years at other positions.

[bulldog]

Well, in 2002 and 2003 the Redskins under Spurrier only kept 5 blockers in and sent everyone else out on patterns. The line was often out-numbered and Spurrier refused to keep the back or TE in to block even on long yardage conversions.

None of that is happening now.

In one sequence, Darryl Johnston noted that THREE Falcon rushers were able to get to Campbell and sack him when there were SIX Redskins in to block, including the tight end.

THAT is unacceptable.

In numbers you can double each defender and still surrender a sack?

WTF? :mad:

[thedevilhimself]

were you not around when Helton was here? Ramsey is lucky to be alive. While scheme has somthing to do with it. This is not the worse O line we have ever had.

That was almost entirly scheme ... I say that because the exact same guys in 2004 and 2005 looked amazing ...

The 2003 Kim Helton line comprised of Chris Samuels, I think Derrick Dockery, Larry Moore, Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen ...

Compare that to
Bastile, Dokery, Rabach, Montgomery and Williams ... Not even close... This like suck and blows ... it sublows ...

[SirClintonPortis]

Yep. Batiste is flat out terrible and should've have left with Burley. Williams is so-so and Heyer is in way over his head. We've got only one legit starter in Dockery, and he's just average. Rabach's starting to lose it. There were a couple not not-so-good snaps to JC this game as well.

[alwaysaskin]

This is Snyderatto right here, instead of going after Cutler we should have been looking for FA guards and Tackles, There is no excuse for this, Vinny Cerrato is every bit as bad as Matt Millen and maybe worse.

WORST O-LINE EVER
WORST FRONT OFFICE EVER
WORST GM EVER
WORST OWNER EVER

[tr1]

Another precise evaluation by bulldog.

Only Vinny's arrogance could mask these problems before the season.

And, to think, we have half a season left.

:(

[bulldog]

The Redskins are definitely down there with the Raiders, Browns, Bucs and Rams right now. Although to be fair teams like the Browns and Raiders have been 3-13 or 4-12 type teams for years. The Redskins have been competitive at times and those records are far from the 8-8 this team posted last season.

But with the specter of a 4-12 type season looming it will be interesting to see what changes are made.

There is no thought now that the team merely needs to spackle a wall spot or two and this team will be a contender.

This is now a tear-down and rebuild project and GMs and coaches that would come in for that kind of job won't do it with Vinny or Scott Campbell in the front office.

It's going to have to be a complete sweep.

And to silence the discontent of the fans and get the heat off, I think Snyder will do just that and send Vinny, the FO staff and Zorn packing.

A new coach in all likelihood is not going to want to deal with Portis and his tantrums.

[Seabee1973]

I dont know i thought the scrubs marty had a spurrier had the second year were pretty bad. at leats we drafted a 3rd rounder that season and he played decent

[alwaysaskin]

The Redskins are definitely down there with the Raiders, Browns, Bucs and Rams right now. Although to be fair teams like the Browns and Raiders have been 3-13 or 4-12 type teams for years. The Redskins have been competitive at times and those records are far from the 8-8 this team posted last season.

But with the specter of a 4-12 type season looming it will be interesting to see what changes are made.

There is no thought now that the team merely needs to spackle a wall spot or two and this team will be a contender.

This is now a tear-down and rebuild project and GMs and coaches that would come in for that kind of job won't do it with Vinny or Scott Campbell in the front office.

It's going to have to be a complete sweep.

And to silence the discontent of the fans and get the heat off, I think Snyder will do just that and send Vinny, the FO staff and Zorn packing.

A new coach in all likelihood is not going to want to deal with Portis and his tantrums.

3-13, 4-12 where do we get these wins. I hope that the new coach tells Portis to shape up or ship out

[Seabee1973]

The Redskins are definitely down there with the Raiders, Browns, Bucs and Rams right now. Although to be fair teams like the Browns and Raiders have been 3-13 or 4-12 type teams for years. The Redskins have been competitive at times and those records are far from the 8-8 this team posted last season.

But with the specter of a 4-12 type season looming it will be interesting to see what changes are made.

There is no thought now that the team merely needs to spackle a wall spot or two and this team will be a contender.

This is now a tear-down and rebuild project and GMs and coaches that would come in for that kind of job won't do it with Vinny or Scott Campbell in the front office.

It's going to have to be a complete sweep.

And to silence the discontent of the fans and get the heat off, I think Snyder will do just that and send Vinny, the FO staff and Zorn packing.

A new coach in all likelihood is not going to want to deal with Portis and his tantrums.

Ive always liked Scott i think his eye for talent is good there has been times where he has recommended guys and snyder or who ever is in charge of drafting has gone a completely different direction to grab someone

[ECU-ALUM]

IN a word yes.

[DGREENHULK]

Yup thanks Vinny

[Phixius]

The lack of depth in the OL is all on Vinny. He thought he could ignore it by stripping Zorn of his playcalling and giving it to Lewis but after the last two games, it's clear that the problem wasn't all on Zorn but the team he put out on the field. Zorn should of never been hired in the first place and him and Snyder makes things worst by setting Zorn up to fail with their stupidity.

Vinny was too simple minded in the offseason and not once did it ever occur to him that Randy Thomas wasn't going to be fully ready with multiple surgeries and Samuel is getting older. His excuses are so pathetic. We tried, We tried. How? getting another old OL who hasn't played in 2 years.

Dan Snyder is too blind to see what's going on. I keep hearing that he's wants to win, he's wants to win but too naive to understand the fundamentals of running a football team.

[alwaysaskin]

I have three words for this post: "Sacks and stuff"

[Stophovr6]

Maybe, probably, it's pretty horrible. Campbell is going to be leaving this team a beat up man.

[Buford]

Two OL's I can think of being just next to nothing.

Before this year, the Spurrier OL where Ramsey was ruined. But Vinny's OL this year might be the worst of the 2000's....not just for the Skins, but for the whole NFL.

[boofMcboof]

Well, I bet they will do a mass drafting of O line players this offseason, like we have done the last two years at other positions.


You know what's going to happen if Synderatto is still calling the shots? They'll take the shotgun approach and reach for several OL and end up passing over some really talented players. I can see it now.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Well with Spurrier, Bulldog, as you had said, we would only keep in 5, but with this crew, we keep in the TE and HB, and the other team can rush 3, yes 3! And still get to the QB on a 3 Step drop!!

[MartinC]

We did not have an NFL calibre tackle on the field today. Jason is lucky he lived through that first half.

We need to find two new starting calibre tackles and a centre this offseason. Move Williams to RG. Sadly starting tackles do not make it to free agency so we need to look to the draft and get Levi Jones some time to see if he can still play. If he can't we need to spend our top two picks on tackles.

That still leaves us with the question mark at QB but there is no point drafting a QB early until the line has been addressed.

[SkinsNumberOne]

You know what's going to happen if Synderatto is still calling the shots? They'll take the shotgun approach and reach for several OL and end up passing over some really talented players. I can see it now.
Yeah, well, you'd pretty much have to expect this.

That kind of painful reactionary garbage is what any reasonable observer has seen. And then when criticism comes, the ridiculous "BPA" excuse is given as why that was done.

[boofMcboof]

Yeah, well, you'd pretty much have to expect this.

That kind of painful reactionary garbage is what any reasonable observer has seen. And then when criticism comes, the ridiculous "BPA" excuse is given as why that was done.


What are we going to do, Rob?

[scruffylookin]

History?

Nobody can answer that one.

But the neglect of this line by Danny, Joe and Vinny these last 5 or 6 years have come home to roost this season.

I think the only Oline that I can remember that might be in the ballpark of suck that this one is was that 98 line.

There were tons of injuries that year too so the line shuffled throughout the season but the majority of the season here was the starting lineup

LT: Brad Badger (10 games)
LG: Tre Johnson (10 games)
C: Cory Raymer (16 games)
RG: Rod Milstead (11 games)
RT: Shar Pourdanesh (14 games)

This group and the men who backed them up gave up a team record 61 sacks and we rushed for an average of only 105 yards per game.

Our current Oline will have a shot. Right now we're only averaging 99 yards rushing per game and are on pace for 56 sacks allowed.