Sunday is proof why we need a Franchise QB

[REDALERT]

Sunday's results was no surprise to me, because last week was proof that the offense was lacking a running game which made everything else sort of breakdown in segments.

I was telling my fellow skins fans at the sports bar that Portis's concussion was unfortunate. But in retospect was the best thing that could happen to this offense. I've been saying all along that our young receivers and our OL is not as bad as it looks. Sure, we still need upgrades on the OL, but the results on the field was putrid and deceiving. With a little motivation, better play calling, confidence and younger players getting the opportunity, yesterday's results is long over due.


Further, add a few additional OL through FA or the draft and our offense would be much better, especially with a more precise QB. Add another RB and trade Portis or make him the primary backup or 3rd stringer. But this is the scenario that Zorn, Cerrato and Snyder face. Letting guys like Portis and a few others hit the road because it's long over due regarding the youth movement.

We always see other teams younger players exceed that we're drafted during the same time as our younger players and scratch our heads on why ours can't seem to excel during the same time frame. Easy, they play with teams that put them in better situations to succeed and let them play through the rough times. You cannot constantly yo-yo your younger players in and out of the lineup all the time. Especially when your counting on them to produce, learn and get better. So, in our case. Most of our younger players lose confidence because our coaches don't have confidence in them.


This was the same case with Betts and Cartwright IMO. I wasn't too sure on cartwright, but after last weeks game against the Falcons. I saw something in Cartwright that I wasn't seeing in Portis. A burst of quickness that Portis is now lacking and makes the OL look bad. Portis now relies on the lead blocker to do most of his dirty work to get an opening. And this is why IMO he and Sellers sort of fell apart. Portis can no longer find that hole if the lead blocker doesn't create one. But guys like Betts and Cartwright have that burst and can find the smallest opportunity and make the best of it. Portis will wait on the lead blocker and stumble up on the lead blocker and stumble on many occassions.


Also, coach Zorn as we all know was in over his head and now trying to take credit for the smallest plays that work. Ok maybe, but I'm not buying it. Like I've said before I had no problem with the bingo caller making the calls since Zorn couldn't put our players in positions to make plays and score. Especially our younger players. But now, what we're witnessing is a sort of youth movement by default from injuries. Our FO was depending too much on some of our veteran players and Zorn had no choice but to play them for his job sake. We we're too deep in to depend on our younger players because the trust factor just wasn't there.


And regarding the play calling again. I didn't care if our play caller was working at Mcdonalds before he got here. The resume that Sherm presented was to impresive to over look oppose to what we we're already seeing. Constantly trying to break the 10 point mark against some of the most putrid teams in the league.


Anyhow, here's to our new found redemption that was presented by our new play caller, injuries and the youth movement by default that was long over due. So, next year give me an upgrade at QB, a couple of young stud OL and another RB. Also, I wouldn't mind keeping Zorn depending on how the rest of the season goes. But if Zorn wants to get his play calling duties back next year, no thank you.

[Saqs]

With a better QB we could have scored 35+ yesterday IMO. JC is so 50/50 its maddening.

[Destino]

Well then we just need to sign a franchise QB... how hard can it be?

Mind naming the last franchise QB the redskins have had?

[laxpck]

The replay of his miss of Yoder driving at the end of the first half was absolutely maddening. He didnt even look.

[Skinz4Life12]

i'll put this at the top of my to-do list

[Gator Bait]

I wouldn't mind drafting a QB in the 4th round (try to land a diamond in the rough) but we need to use our first two draft picks on offensive lineman.

Did you happen to see the stat form the game yesterday....The redskins are the only team in the NFL not to use a 1st or 2nd round draft pick on an offensive lineman since 2001. That is pathetic and the trend needs to end in 2010!

While I agree that Campbell has had several games where he missed opportunities and didn't play particularly well, but we can win a super bowl with a game managing QB playing behind a good offensive line. We aren't getting to the playoffs with the current offensive line we have!

[Buck812]

Well then we just need to sign a franchise QB... how hard can it be?

Mind naming the last franchise QB the redskins have had?


Is Peyton, Tom or Carson going to be a FA next year?

[Fletch_Lives59]

who will protect your Franchise QB when he is done after 4 years, or is that the norm now for a Franchise QB?

[addicted]

If Sunday clued you in where in the hell have you been for the past few years? Sunday was nothing new, Jason Campbell still sucked. The reason we won was we knocked out the best QB in the game. Any time you do that it's in your favor to win. Campbells garbage. If a real QB had been in for us my guess is we win that game by 21 points. It wouldn't be close

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

The replay of his miss of Yoder driving at the end of the first half was absolutely maddening. He didnt even look.

That was absolutely crushing and I'll bet he'll kicking himself during film study. To see Yoder run free at will on the go route.... :doh:

[bikie]

The replay of his miss of Yoder driving at the end of the first half was absolutely maddening. He didnt even look.

yeah, rarely do the fans get to see such compelling evidence to support an argument... I've been hearing from sonny, jaws, and various other analysts about the wide open guys JC routinely misses but without game tape, it's hard to imagine how wide open they are talking about...

the yoder play was ridiculous... I figured the guy behind yoder had to be a safety but it was the ref!!! nothing but some tumbleweeds drifting past both of them...

[Jeff in D.C.]

Red I agree that Jason isn't the answer, but the problem is who is out there that is "franchise QB" worthy?

[Jeff in D.C.]

Is Peyton, Tom or Carson going to be a FA next year?

:hysterical:

[cphil006]

If Jake Locher and Sam Bradford aren't there, then let;s trade down and get more linemen. I don't want to take a chance on a first round QB and find out 5 years later he's a bust... let's build a team that a franchise QB can come to and win right away, or at least give us an idea who's a franchise QB because he'd have a great o-line, running game, and receivers to throw to.

[REDALERT]

who will protect your Franchise QB when he is done after 4 years, or is that the norm now for a Franchise QB?



I'm not saying over look the OL. I certainly agree we still need top talent on the OL. But on the flip side, I just didn't think what we already had was this bad during some of the depressing games we played this year, not buying it.

We see all the time younger guys drafted in some of the same rounds or undrafted FA's that produce for other teams. As a matter of fact, one of the un-drafted FA's we let go this year was starting in place for one the injured lineman for the Colts this year, but can't remember his name.


We just need to add more quality lineman and keep what we already have for backups as well. But I think as the season goes on and with better play calling from our bingo recepient and Betts now at running back. Campbell will have time to throw like yesterday, but won't take total advantage of it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Well then we just need to sign a franchise QB... how hard can it be?

Mind naming the last franchise QB the redskins have had?

Well, they tried drafting one high with Heath. Bust. They drafted some QB for 3-4 years, none worked out.

The last legitimate long term franchise QB was Sonny. Joey T had a nice run for 3 years. But that doesn't make a franchise QB.



Is Peyton, Tom or Carson going to be a FA next year?
No. No. and No.

You can't trade for or pick up a franchise QB. You have to develop one. Either trade for a backup who you think can do it (a la Matt Hasselbeck, even Brett Favre) or you draft one (Peyton, Carson) or get DAMN lucky (Brady).

[skinsfan1523]

The replay of his miss of Yoder driving at the end of the first half was absolutely maddening. He didnt even look.

OMG when I saw that replay I was going nuts. To see a player in the NFL that wide open and not hit him with a pass is inexcusable. Especially since he was smack dab right in the middle of the field with not single player within like 20 yards of him. That was ridiculous.

[Koolblue13]

I agree Campbell is not the answer. That's why I wish he would have been more Russell like, so we knew right away that we had nothing, as opposed to Leftwich, who it took a while to figure out.

I like the way Sherm is calling it and how we are executing the plays. Our O Line stepped up this week and Levi is a huge upgrade over Heyer and I would like to keep him as out LT back up next season.

There look to be a few quality FA O Linemen this offseason and I think we can upgrade it quite well, even fix the O line in one year, if Samuels can come back 100%.

QB is a pickle for sure, there is nothing harder, than finding a Franchise QB. I wouldn't even mind seeing us use more than 1 pick on it this draft.

[Koolblue13]

No. No. and No.

You can't trade for or pick up a franchise QB. You have to develop one. Either trade for a backup who you think can do it (a la Matt Hasselbeck, even Brett Favre) or you draft one (Peyton, Carson) or get DAMN lucky (Brady).

That was a joke, I'm pretty sure.

[REDALERT]

If Sunday clued you in where in the hell have you been for the past few years? Sunday was nothing new, Jason Campbell still sucked. The reason we won was we knocked out the best QB in the game. Any time you do that it's in your favor to win. Campbells garbage. If a real QB had been in for us my guess is we win that game by 21 points. It wouldn't be close

Around just like yourself. But we really won the game because we scored 27 points and should've had more if campbell didn't miss a few big plays. Not saying that our defense is all world. But if you have a descent defense and your offense can run to open up the pass and keep the defense somewhat off balance, it helps a helluva whole lot don't you think?


Not only that. But when your offense can start scoring some points it helps in rejuvenating your defense as well. So, where have you been?

[Chump Bailey]

Our O Line stepped up this week and Levi is a huge upgrade over Heyer and I would like to keep him as out LT back up next season.

Ain't happening. Levi won't agree to a backup role because he's not one. He wants to start and be paid as such.

[Destino]

Well, they tried drafting one high with Heath. Bust. They drafted some QB for 3-4 years, none worked out.

The last legitimate long term franchise QB was Sonny. Joey T had a nice run for 3 years. But that doesn't make a franchise QB.

Exactly my point. Franchise QB's are incredibly hard to come by and most teams in the league play with "good enough" QB's. You can not build a team around a question mark. We can't pin our hopes on the next QB drafted turning into Peyton Manning. What we can do however is build a team correctly so that IF we do find a QB upgrade the team can make a superbowl run.

That means drafting lineman. A good OLine makes the running game and passing game better. A good OLine means converted short yardage downs more often. We can build a good OLine with a great degree of certainty while we wait for the QB.

Also, without a good OLine developing a good QB is difficult.

The path forward is a FO that understand the team identity and hires coaches and players that fit into a specific style of football. A FO that understands that you strengthen the trenches first and build from the inside out. This is a complete reversal of the current model the Redskins employ. They switch the style of football with every new coaching hire and pick up players that aren't built for the same systems.

[RED06]

OMG when I saw that replay I was going nuts. To see a player in the NFL that wide open and not hit him with a pass is inexcusable. Especially since he was smack dab right in the middle of the field with not single player within like 20 yards of him. That was ridiculous.

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

RED06

[Hiro]

Did you happen to see the stat form the game yesterday....The redskins are the only team in the NFL not to use a 1st or 2nd round draft pick on an offensive lineman since 2001. That is pathetic and the trend needs to end in 2010!
Yeah I saw that and to me, that is a clear indication as to why we're having all the problems with our offensive line. Hopefully this can be corrected in the offseason ...

[Koolblue13]

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

RED06

They wanted him not to throw TD passes? Well gosh, maybe JC is better than we thought.

[skinsfan1523]

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

RED06

So staring to the right side of the field and pump faking like three times and never looking anywhere else is the right read? Meanwhile a player sits wide open in the middle field with not a single defensive player paying him any mind. Ok sounds about right.

[Skinsfor4]

Draft OL and a few FA OL and I bet Vick is the QB here next season.

[Operations]

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

Congratulations! That's the most pathetic piece of JC apologetics that I have ever read!

[#98QBKiller]

We always see other teams younger players exceed that we're drafted during the same time as our younger players and scratch our heads on why ours can't seem to excel during the same time frame. Easy, they play with teams that put them in better situations to succeed and let them play through the rough times. You cannot constantly yo-yo your younger players in and out of the lineup all the time. Especially when your counting on them to produce, learn and get better. So, in our case. Most of our younger players lose confidence because our coaches don't have confidence in them.


Great post overall Red, but this part stuck out to me the most and we've learned the hard way that this is very true.

If I'm the coaches, I'd keep Betts as the starter the rest of the year and keep using the young guys, the more time they get on the field the more plays they'll start to make. This includes the receivers and Rinehart/Jones.

Also, I know that Betts and Rock aren't the youngest guys on the block but they certainly are in better shape than Portis at this point.

And I agree about the QB point too. It's time to draft one of these top QBs with our first pick and draft OL as well. Let's not forget that we can add some quality depth for our line through free agency as well.

[REDALERT]

Exactly my point. Franchise QB's are incredibly hard to come by and most teams in the league play with "good enough" QB's. You can not build a team around a question mark. We can't pin our hopes on the next QB drafted turning into Peyton Manning. What we can do however is build a team correctly so that IF we do find a QB upgrade the team can make a superbowl run.

That means drafting lineman. A good OLine makes the running game and passing game better. A good OLine means converted short yardage downs more often. We can build a good OLine with a great degree of certainty while we wait for the QB.

Also, without a good OLine developing a good QB is difficult.

The path forward is a FO that understand the team identity and hires coaches and players that fit into a specific style of football. A FO that understands that you strengthen the trenches first and build from the inside out. This is a complete reversal of the current model the Redskins employ. They switch the style of football with every new coaching hire and pick up players that aren't built for the same systems.


Destino, I understand your logic here. But what QB is going to be a FA next year worth taking a chance on? Everybody keep saying garcia, but here we go again signing older players that's not a long term option.


If we can sign a young bonified OL during FA if one is available you sign him. If a quality QB is on the board when we select you take him. Then, with our 2nd round pick you take another OL IMO.


But if this is not the case, then you re-sign Campbell for a resonable price and guess you sign another Vet. Or, take a bonified OL with our 1st round pick and a young QB with our 2nd round selection. But my guess is if that QB is still there in the second round it's for a reason. But you see teams around the league now that took OL over quality QB's and they're now looking for a QB.


But again, it really depends on who's still on the draft board and the players upside and ability to be something special for years to come.

[SkinsRMoney06]

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

RED06

Yeah throwing the ball into the dirt as opposed to a wide open player in the endzone is the "correct" read. :doh:

[#98QBKiller]

They wanted him not to throw TD passes? Well gosh, maybe JC is better than we thought.


So staring to the right side of the field and pump faking like three times and never looking anywhere else is the right read? Meanwhile a player sits wide open in the middle field with not a single defensive player paying him any mind. Ok sounds about right.


Congratulations! That's the most pathetic piece of JC apologetics that I have ever read!


Yeah throwing the ball into the dirt as opposed to a wide open player in the endzone is the "correct" read.


:laugh:

[BlackBush]

Sooo...




Colt Brennan?
/Brah, somebody had to say it.
//I'll take Carson please. Thanks :)

[DMVSkins]

Here's your proof

Attempts Yrds TD
Quarterback J. Campbell 17/26 193 1 (4 Quarters)
Punter H. Smith 1/1 35 1 (1 Play)

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

we need to spend a 1st rounder on a QB next year. we cant just say "well campbell and shuler were busts, lets stop looking", we gotta get back on the horse and try again. if he busts, he busts. we need olineman too, but if theres a QB with lots of potential at or near where were drafting, we have to pull the trigger.

maybe we get lucky? maybe we dont? but we have to keep trying to find one. history says youre better off looking in the first round. the majority of big time QBs were taken in the 1st round (or brees with the 1st pick of the 2nd), the rare random guys (brady, romo, warner) are more execptions than the rules.

manning, mcnabb, river, rodgers, e manning, palmer, flacco, ryan, brees, hell even cutler: all top picks. weve gotta take a stab at it again.

[Operations]

I say draft best QB available with pick #1, then o-linemen on all subsequent picks.

[DexterSackMachine]

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

RED06

Didn't he actually say that Yoder was a decoy on the play, but that you would hope that if there is a blown coverage like that they could get it to him?

[Koolblue13]

we need to spend a 1st rounder on a QB next year. .

I disagree. I don't care for either of the top 2 prospects coming out and would rather address one of the many needs on Defense and grab perhaps 2 mid round QBs.

[TGI Jef]

whether we get a QB or a LT in round 1, it will be impossible to FIX both.

premier, in-their-prime LTs hit free agency and the trading block about as often as elite quarterbacks, and it could be argued that it's even a lot easier to hit on a surprise QB in later rounds than it is on a surprise tackle.

i will be happy with one of two scenarios:

round 1 - qb
round 2 - guard / center

round 1 - lt
round 2 - qb

i think that holding out and trying to get a "stud lt prospect" outside of round 1 is pretty much an oxymoron.

[monsta]

.

manning, mcnabb, river, rodgers, e manning, palmer, flacco, ryan, brees, hell even cutler: all top picks. weve gotta take a stab at it again.

So 1 out of 3 chance to get a good Qb with a first round draft pick? I wouldnt even include Flacco, Ryan and Cutler in that good qb debate just yet, but lets use this theory. 33% chance to get a solid Qb in the first round. I would rather take my chances on O lineman and a speedster in the first few rounds and then let a guy like Pike fall to me in the third round.

[#98QBKiller]

whether we get a QB or a LT in round 1, it will be impossible to FIX both.

premier, in-their-prime LTs hit free agency and the trading block about as often as elite quarterbacks, and it could be argued that it's even a lot easier to hit on a surprise QB in later rounds than it is on a surprise tackle.

i will be happy with one of two scenarios:

round 1 - qb
round 2 - guard / center

round 1 - lt
round 2 - qb

i think that holding out and trying to get a "stud lt prospect" outside of round 1 is pretty much an oxymoron.


A lot is riding on whether or not Chris Samuels comes back too. If he's able to and wants to, then the draft would be a lot easier IMO. Plus if Jones works out good for the rest of the season, that would help us a lot too. He looked really good out there yesterday and I'm sure he could play RT if need be.

[DMVSkins]

I just find it to be amazing that JC spent all that time in the offseason throwing passes to Kelly and Davis to develop a "chemistry", working on his mechanics and still looks like <fill in the blank>. Its very disturbing to watch JC play QB then watch Tom Brady and Peyton Manning against each other later the same day.

[AllBusiness]

Colt Brennan doesn't get touchdowns. They come to him...

[Buford]

Unless you can promise me a Manning or Brady.

I want a QB who throws more TD's than INT's. Who has a 2/3 completion %, and QB rating between 85 and 100 on a regular basis.

With that, give me a top OL, two good RB's and some decent WR's who don't drop the ball.....and you've got a really good team there.

I would LOVE a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. But fear neither would amount to much over the long haul with this front office.

[Koolblue13]

Unless you can promise me a Manning or Brady.

I want a QB who throws more TD's than INT's. Who has a 2/3 completion %, and QB rating between 85 and 100 on a regular basis.

With that, give me a top OL, two good RB's and some decent WR's who don't drop the ball.....and you've got a really good team there.

I would LOVE a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. But fear neither would amount to much over the long haul with this front office.


What about Bulger and 2 mid round QBs?

What if Samuels comes back and we keep Levi, upgrade our interior through FA, with guys who are on the good side of 30 and draft only one or two O Linemen?

Would that be an improvement?

[Water Boy]

yeah, rarely do the fans get to see such compelling evidence to support an argument... I've been hearing from sonny, jaws, and various other analysts about the wide open guys JC routinely misses but without game tape, it's hard to imagine how wide open they are talking about...

the yoder play was ridiculous... I figured the guy behind yoder had to be a safety but it was the ref!!! nothing but some tumbleweeds drifting past both of them...

Go to a game once in awhile. You can't miss it.

[Buford]

What about Bulger and 2 mid round QBs?

What if Samuels comes back and we keep Levi, upgrade our interior through FA, with guys who are on the good side of 30 and draft only one or two O Linemen?

Would that be an improvement?


Meh, I don't know it that'll work. I think back to the Gibbs superbowls....and that was the working formula. You give any QB a great OL like the Hogs. Then you are going to be better. You give any QB WR's like those teams....and an OL like the Hogs. Then you are going to be a lot better. You give any QB two downhill RB's behind an OL like the Hogs and those WR's. Then you're QB can be Superbowl MVP.

Its all about protecting that QB over the long term. Not just a few series, or a few games. The whole season. That builds confidence to go through your progressions. It allows time for the play to develop. It gives the WR's time to run their routes. It starts with the OL to me.

[Destino]

A lot is riding on whether or not Chris Samuels comes back too. If he's able to and wants to, then the draft would be a lot easier IMO. Plus if Jones works out good for the rest of the season, that would help us a lot too. He looked really good out there yesterday and I'm sure he could play RT if need be.

Not really. Neither of them can be counted on to last a full season. If you knew your cars bakes wouldn't work the entire day would you drive it? The team has to act as if they have no starters at either tackle position because down the stretch... they won't.

[Koolblue13]

Meh, I don't know it that'll work. I think back to the Gibbs superbowls....and that was the working formula. You give any QB a great OL like the Hogs. Then you are going to be better. You give any QB WR's like those teams....and an OL like the Hogs. Then you are going to be a lot better. You give any QB two downhill RB's behind an OL like the Hogs and those WR's. Then you're QB can be Superbowl MVP.

Its all about protecting that QB over the long term. Not just a few series, or a few games. The whole season. That builds confidence to go through your progressions. It allows time for the play to develop. It gives the WR's time to run their routes. It starts with the OL to me.

I agree with that. IMO, I think we could have 4 good young pass catchers. Yoder can double as FB at times.

We have some guys who have shown they can step in at spot duty on the line. I know there are a ton of "what ifs" surrounding our team, yet again.

IF BMW could take over at BU RG and Samuels comes back, Levi moves to the right and we can upgrade C. The O Line is not too bad. Add some quality back ups, via the draft and FA and the O Line might look good.

If we have a QB, like Bulger, who doesn't miss a TE playing pinochle in the end zone or over throw Moss running behind their safties, that finally opens things up, for the running game.

The play calling has gotten much better the last few weeks and the young guys are finally (no thanks to the coaches) starting to look like football players.

Those things would allow us to upgrade postions like OLB, DT, FS and CB early in the draft and finish our fine young Defense, while mildly begininng to rebuild our O Line.

[Buford]

I agree with that. IMO, I think we could have 4 good young pass catchers. Yoder can double as FB at times.

We have some guys who have shown they can step in at spot duty on the line. I know there are a ton of "what ifs" surrounding our team, yet again.

IF BMW could take over at BU RG and Samuels comes back, Levi moves to the right and we can upgrade C. The O Line is not too bad. Add some quality back ups, via the draft and FA and the O Line might look good.

If we have a QB, like Bulger, who doesn't miss a TE playing pinochle in the end zone or over throw Moss running behind their safties, that finally opens things up, for the running game.

The play calling has gotten much better the last few weeks and the young guys are finally (no thanks to the coaches) starting to look like football players.

Those things would allow us to upgrade postions like OLB, DT, FS and CB early in the draft and finish our fine young Defense, while mildly begininng to rebuild our O Line.


My bottom line is....do we need an upgrade at QB? Yes.

Do we need it before upgrading the OL. Hell no. Before getting stable WR's? Hell no. Before locking down what your RB corp is going to be? Well, maybe.

[BlackBush]

I disagree. I don't care for either of the top 2 prospects coming out and would rather address one of the many needs on Defense and grab perhaps 2 mid round QBs.

I think we have needs all over but an upgrade at OL and QB would be enough to improve our overall win % greatly.
Offense we will need a QB, 2 OL, RB/PR
Defense we need CB, LB, Safety, and DE/DT (I'm thinking we try to trade Landry and Carter - Dixon would have been a great project but we decided to keep Wynn :doh:)

The other thing I saw from the game was that Mike Sellers was on the line in our heavy sets as opposed to in front of the back where Yoder was lined up. Now I'm not saying Sellers is gone but it shows that they are losing confidence and FB may be a position considered for an upgrade in the offseason.

[Water Boy]

If Jake Locher and Sam Bradford aren't there, then let;s trade down and get more linemen. I don't want to take a chance on a first round QB and find out 5 years later he's a bust... let's build a team that a franchise QB can come to and win right away, or at least give us an idea who's a franchise QB because he'd have a great o-line, running game, and receivers to throw to.

I don't know why alot of people think that a OL is a sure thing. When a team is picking there are never sure things. Yes you increase your chances of picking a pro bowl player in the 1st round but that protains to all players. That means that you increase your chances when you take a QB in the front of the 1st round just as you would with a OL. Alot of people are saying we should of taken a LT last year because OL just always pan out. Well sorry if i am mistaken but the only OL i have heard of exceling is M.Oher and I believe that he was the last of the so called sure thing LT to come off the board in the 1st round.

[monsta]

Every team without a Franchise Qb, needs a franchise Qb. One day, one play, or one season doesnt prove that.

[STBonecrusher21]

Oh?!?!

Just a franchise QB you say?!?!

[Koolblue13]

My bottom line is....do we need an upgrade at QB? Yes.

Do we need it before upgrading the OL. Hell no. Before getting stable WR's? Hell no. Before locking down what your RB corp is going to be? Well, maybe.

QB is an absolute need. I have been a JC supporter for a long time. That time has ended. Like I said before, I wish he was more Russell and less Leftwich, so we would have known, what we know now, a lot sooner.

The Line is a major problem as well and the most important positions on the Offense.

IF QB and O Line are upgraded, I think our RBs could help for another year, regardless of Portis being here or not.

I also think our WR situation is pretty good. They just need more PT and a QB.

[Koolblue13]

I think we have needs all over but an upgrade at OL and QB would be enough to improve our overall win % greatly.
Offense we will need a QB, 2 OL, RB/PR
Defense we need CB, LB, Safety, and DE/DT (I'm thinking we try to trade Landry and Carter - Dixon would have been a great project but we decided to keep Wynn :doh:)

Keeping Wynn over Dixon, just kills me. Heck, keeping Monty over Dixon kills me. I don't get it.

I think AC and LL are both gone next season as well. (along with Griff and Daniels retires)



The other thing I saw from the game was that Mike Sellers was on the line in our heavy sets as opposed to in front of the back where Yoder was lined up. Now I'm not saying Sellers is gone but it shows that they are losing confidence and FB may be a position considered for an upgrade in the offseason.Sellers is gone thanks to Yoder continually proving his worth at multiple positions and the single back formation.

[Water Boy]

My bottom line is....do we need an upgrade at QB? Yes.

Do we need it before upgrading the OL. Hell no. Before getting stable WR's? Hell no. Before locking down what your RB corp is going to be? Well, maybe.

Well is it that the Wr's are unstable or that are Qb sucks? Well from being at every home game I can tell you that most of the time the recievers are getting open. JC just does not see them and he is the check down king of the NFL.

[Buford]

Well is it that the Wr's are unstable or that are Qb sucks? Well from being at every home game I can tell you that most of the time the recievers are getting open. JC just does not see them and he is the check down king of the NFL.


I think its mostly the WR's. That's my opinion.

We've seen the issues no matter who the QB has been. Too many drops. Too many walks back to the huddle with the QB doing the hand motion to show it was the wrong route run. This was during preseason this year, last year....all the way back to Brunell.

[Skinsinparadise]

What team doesn't need a franchise QB aside from the handful of teams with elite QBs? But its not like going to the grocery store with a list and you land one after identifying what you want.

FA -- looks like the best QB's this year will be Orton, and Pennington. Are they franchise QB's?

in the draft -- you got Locker, Clausen, Bradford, are they franchise material and do they fall to the Redskins spot?

IMO its very specific question as opposed to a theoretical conversation. A lot of the anti-JC posts (am not saying this thread is one of them) don't really IMO have any constructive point -- OK, JC can do better, make better throws, is not the answer, on and on and on. OK, fine -- who is the answer and how do we get him?

[darrelgreenie]

after a game that the Skins won and the QB had an okay game
we are back to chasing the mythical "franchise QB" again
should the Bears draft another QB then?
should the Steelers have drafted another QB in Ben's 2nd year when they won the SB despite his horrible play?
According to this almost every team in the NFL shoud look to draft a "franchise" QB except for maybe 5 teams? Colts, Saints, Patriots, Steelers and Eagles


but can a franchise QB exsist without a good franchise to begin with?

[ajlaird82]

My bottom line is....do we need an upgrade at QB? Yes.

Do we need it before upgrading the OL. Hell no. Before getting stable WR's? Hell no. Before locking down what your RB corp is going to be? Well, maybe.

We have stable recievers they just hardly get an opportunity to play.

[flexxskins]

A little off of the subject and this might have even been mentioned somewhere else before but; has anyone else moticed that Campbell is almost a 100% better passer while on the run than when he plants his feet?

[deejaydana]

I've been trolling the "2010 NFL Mock Draft" boards a lot lately (which, yes, is completely pathetic that I'm doing this already) and some of the more professional ones say there's no way we won't take a QB with our first round selection. I have to agree with them here. I just don't see this current ownership being able to pass on any of the top 3 to 4 QBs out there.

[ouvan59]

Uhm according to Zorn in his presser, JC did what they wanted him to do on that play and made the right read. So I guess that's why none of you are coaches because you have to go with the progressions on that play and he said that JC was right in what "THEY " asked him to do.

RED06

So let me get this straight. Zorn wanted Campbell to ignore the WIDE OPEN tight end at the goal line and instead he wanted Campbell to get an intentional grounding call? Do you really think that's what they asked him to do? Really?

Do you think that there might be a teeny, eeny, weeny chance that Zorn was making sure he didn't call out his QB in a press conference???

[thedevilhimself]

You can't trade for or pick up a franchise QB. You have to develop one. Either trade for a backup who you think can do it (a la Matt Hasselbeck, even Brett Favre) or you draft one (Peyton, Carson) or get DAMN lucky (Brady).

Wooohooo we develop one ... yeah right with this crowd ? 8 minutes is all it took for the first people in the game thread to start calling for Campbells head in 2006 in the first game he started for Brunell .. 8 minutes .. and it has never stopped . Matt Hasselbeck took 4-5 years to develop in the same Mike Holgrem system before he was game ready ... Drew Brees ... very much like Jason Campbell suffered horible GM descisions from The Shottenhiemer and really strugled until 2004 when he put up amazing numbers ... that was his 4th year as a starter for those keeping count ...He would have been shunted out of town after 2003 here ... Payton and Carlson were both no brainer No1 picks . There is no one in the current draft class you could look at whou could come in an be a day 1 starter like Payton did ... and with the instability that has plagued the Redskins for years . You know what we need to do is stop looking for that superstar QB who never misses a pass and never misses a guy open in the endzone .. (doesn't exist by the way) and strengthen our team throughout . Coach Gibbs showed what could be done with a decent QB and a strong team . Doug Williams, was awful at points throughout 1987 and was benched yet is remembered for that golden quarter in the superbowl . Mark Rypen was no-one and went on to be no-one but for the glimering moment in 1991 he was the best QB in the world ...And Theisman was okay but no world beater ... the reason he is remembered so keenly is the way his career was cut short .... but 1983 was his time and he took us all the way ...

[thedevilhimself]

We have stable recievers they just hardly get an opportunity to play.

When they play they drop passes that land in their hands . I am not down on the WRs but they have to do thier job as well . Look every single QB in the NFL is going to be reviewing tape this week and see guys that were open that could have got a key first down or a score ... We looked like a real NFL team last night in places ... and supprisingly our OL looked to be the best it has in months ... try adding that up ... can we upgrade our QB - possibly, should we do it at the cost of everything else .... nope .

[SkinsNumberOne]

Unless you can promise me a Manning or Brady.

I want a QB who throws more TD's than INT's. Who has a 2/3 completion %, and QB rating between 85 and 100 on a regular basis.

With that, give me a top OL, two good RB's and some decent WR's who don't drop the ball.....and you've got a really good team there.

I would LOVE a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. But fear neither would amount to much over the long haul with this front office.

Dead on.

There are only TWO QBs in the league who truly are the lynch pins to carry their offenses. People acting like we're going to find a QB who is THE guy in who makes everything just work are going to have us spinning in cycles for ANOTHER 20 years. Pass. The people here constantly overrate teams that win and equate it directly with the QBs. Meanwhile all or most teams have a decent dependence on timely or good OLine, good running game, and good defense as well. We have been able to put exactly 0 of those things together consistently this year. The defense has given up many big plays recently. We can do better than Campbell at QB, but the long-term gain of focusing on O-Line is more important than the immediate flashy pickup that all you mini-Snyders want.

Break the idiotic trends and draft O-Line first. Stay the course with getting an O-Line to work well together and gel together.

*I'm hoping that they worked on the exchange between center and QB, because this was the first time all season I didn't see at least two ridiculous snaps or fumbles on that exchange.

*I don't disagree that if you have someone who looks like a really great pickup, near unanimous awesome pro QB, it could be worth it. I don't think that is the case though.

[thedevilhimself]

What about Bulger and 2 mid round QBs?

What if Samuels comes back and we keep Levi, upgrade our interior through FA, with guys who are on the good side of 30 and draft only one or two O Linemen?

Would that be an improvement?

Bulger is worse than done... If Samuels comes back can you expect him to play more than 6 games and be in the same sorry state we are in now Jones on the basis of one game does need to be resigned but again how many games a season can you realistically rely on him .. There is no one in the collage game who looks ready, taking 2 QBs is dumb, esentially saying you have no faith in the scouting dept and instantly initating a QB controvesy as we did with Guss and Heath ..

[MDstar08]

Yesterday's game doesnt give any proof. I have been saying all season that we need a RB 1-2 or 1-2-3 punch, Betts is similiar to CP in the way that he's a power back. For one we used the running game cause the Oline was actually creating holds for once and 2 RB's were used in and out from the sideline. If the running game is working so effective you use it, we threw a few times cause we wanted to change it up. But if you keep going at the defense with the running game with holes your claiming TOP and controlling the clock.

[sjinhan]

Well then we just need to sign a franchise QB... how hard can it be?

Mind naming the last franchise QB the redskins have had?

lol i was thinkign the same thing...

not really targetting the OP but seriously everytime i read these threads about how we will have a better team if "We need a franchise QB", "We need a great OL", and "We need the best coach and FO"...

yeah what a shocker of an observation.. haha

[MDstar08]

I've been trolling the "2010 NFL Mock Draft" boards a lot lately (which, yes, is completely pathetic that I'm doing this already) and some of the more professional ones say there's no way we won't take a QB with our first round selection. I have to agree with them here. I just don't see this current ownership being able to pass on any of the top 3 to 4 QBs out there.

I want OL. I'm not basing the Oline off of 1 decent game.

[ouvan59]

My bottom line is....do we need an upgrade at QB? Yes.

Do we need it before upgrading the OL. Hell no. Before getting stable WR's? Hell no. Before locking down what your RB corp is going to be? Well, maybe.

I couldn't disagree more about the WRs. Our Wrs are fine. We just have a QB that can't get them the ball. He can't throw a touch pass to save his life. He never drops a ball just over a LB. He never throws to a WRs back shoulder. He never accurately throws a fade. He never accurately throws a deep ball. His release is too slow to accurately throw a slant. He is an absolute stud at throwing a 25 yard fastball to a WR in a wideopen throwing lane. That's his pass.

It's really frustrating watching Malcolm Kelly running up the sideline with one-on-one coverage knowing that he will never get the ball thrown to him because he's not completely wide open. And even if he was he wouldn't get the ball because he doesn't have Randle El or Cooley imprinted on the back of his jersey.

While I agree that rebuilding the offensive line should be job 1, getting a new QB should be job 1a.

[SkinsNumberOne]

lol i was thinkign the same thing...

not really targetting the OP but seriously everytime i read these threads about how we will have a better team if "We need a franchise QB", "We need a great OL", and "We need the best coach and FO"...

yeah what a shocker of an observation.. haha
Haha... well it always starts with your ability to evaluate talent.

We would never find a guy like Sebastian Vollmer (2009 late 2nd round pickup by Pats), it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Vollmer

From Rotoworld today:
Patriots rookie LT Sebastian Vollmer kept Colts DE Dwight Freeney sackless for the first time all season Sunday.
While Robert Mathis was dominating RT Nick Kaczur, Vollmer more than held his own against the All Pro. Bigger and more athletic than Matt Light, it's likely that Vollmer will hold onto the starting job even when Light returns from a knee injury.

[Buck812]

No. No. and No.

You can't trade for or pick up a franchise QB. You have to develop one. Either trade for a backup who you think can do it (a la Matt Hasselbeck, even Brett Favre) or you draft one (Peyton, Carson) or get DAMN lucky (Brady).



That was a joke, I'm pretty sure.

Yes it was a joke but the point was, is there really a way to go get a franchise QB right now? Im not sure there is going to even be a way to upgrade JC this year... I mean something could change between now and the draft or FA but right now where is the upgrade going to come from?

The 2010 NFL Draft????.... McCoy? Locker? Clausen? Bradford? Tebow? Snead? Pike?

Anyone sold on any of these guys being a "cant miss" prospect? I think they all have flaws with bust potential.


Free Agency????.....Kyle Orton? Chad Pennington? Charlie Batch? Kyle Boller? David Carr? Kellen Clemens? Daunte Culpepper? Jeff Garcia? Rex Grossman?Joey Harrington? Tarvaris Jackson? Jon Kitna? Matt Moore? Patrick Ramsey? Brett Ratliff? Troy Smith?

The FA list could change of course but right now I dont think there is an upgrade in there at all.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Jason Campbell is awesome you just have to give him 5 more years in the same offense before he starts to understand that when you have a TE running wide open down the field you throw it to him. Or when you have Moss 3 steps in front of his man you don't overthrow him.

This is the same **** we have been pointing out game after game. All we need now is for some dumbass to come in here and say, well if you look at the replay you will see that the safety is within 50 yards so he can't make that throw or else it will be picked off.

[addicted]

Around just like yourself. But we really won the game because we scored 27 points and should've had more if campbell didn't miss a few big plays.

That's the way it is every week, this just happened to be the anamoly week where he won a game. This isn't usual for Jason but scoring 20 points in the game still sucks. Jason can't score points, never has never will.


Not saying that our defense is all world. But if you have a descent defense and your offense can run to open up the pass and keep the defense somewhat off balance, it helps a helluva whole lot don't you think?

Like I said, if we don't knock Orton out of the game our Defense would have been shreaded like they were in the first half and Denver likely would have won. Our win yesterday came because of the Defense. If our Defense can knock out any starting QB in the league I bet we can slow them down long enough to stay in the game. But if you want to look at this past game what I saw was:

1. The Defense give up big plays in the secondary
2. The Defense pressure the QB
3. The offense do nothing special
4. Special Teams make a play to help score

All of these things we've done in the past and we've lost most of these games. The reason we won this game was because the Defense knocked out the opposing QB. Of course if the Defense can do that again we should be in every game this year. However the Defense in the first half gave up 193 yards and 2 TD's to Kyle Orton. With much better QB's coming up like Romo, McNabb, Brees, Manning, and Rivers I'm sorry but I'm not believing any hype that were a better team then we were in the past. We got lucky and knocked out the QB, your blowing the roof off this when we've done nothing



Not only that. But when your offense can start scoring some points it helps in rejuvenating your defense as well. So, where have you been?

When was the last time we busted up the opposing starting QB? If we can do that again which isn't likely we can win. I see us winning one more game this year, against the Raiders. If I'm right we go 4-12 this year. Your thread title was "...we need a franchise QB" and most of us have been saying that since last year. There was no "proof" of that this weekend. Nothing changed from last week or the week before or the year prior to make this any more true then in the past. Some of you just refuse to admit that Jason Campbells garbage, always been garbage, and always will be garbage. He isn't and never will be an answer or a franchise QB for this team.

Welcome to November 16, 2009...hope you have a wonderful day

[deejaydana]

I want OL. I'm not basing the Oline off of 1 decent game.

I'm not in disagreement with you here because I think outside of Bradford, all the other QB candidates are not sure things (even Bradford may not pan out) and a top notch OL prospects are almost always a safer bet type pick. Still, we know how this FO salivates over the ***star*** player. If Tebow is on the board I can see Snyder pulling the trigger (and I think that would be a terrible choice).

[addicted]

I say draft best QB available with pick #1, then o-linemen on all subsequent picks.

The only way I would not do this if I had the power would be if I could sign Travarious Jackson from Minnesota. I do think he has shown potential to be a good NFL QB in this league but the Vikings aren't going to let him go. This is exactly what we should do. Signing an O-lineman with our first picks going to be a regretful mistake

[#98QBKiller]

Not really. Neither of them can be counted on to last a full season. If you knew your cars bakes wouldn't work the entire day would you drive it? The team has to act as if they have no starters at either tackle position because down the stretch... they won't.


What? Besides this season, Samuels has been one of the most reliable tackles in the NFL. Jones has had three seasons cut short but that doesn't mean that he can't contribute. Not to mention rookies aren't guaranteed to last all season either...in fact some of the top-projected tackles have had injury bugs in college.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

The only way I would not do this if I had the power would be if I could sign Travarious Jackson from Minnesota. I do think he has shown potential to be a good NFL QB in this league but the Vikings aren't going to let him go. This is exactly what we should do. Signing an O-lineman with our first picks going to be a regretful mistake

What??!!!

I would trade back and keep on selecting linemen until I didn't have any picks left or maybe use one in the later rounds and take a shot at another QB project then bring in some aging vet to lead the team until Brennan or someone else is ready to take the reins.

[Postal1]

Sunday's results was no surprise to me, because last week was proof that the offense was lacking a running game which made everything else sort of breakdown in segments.

I was telling my fellow skins fans at the sports bar that Portis's concussion was unfortunate. But in retospect was the best thing that could happen to this offense. I've been saying all along that our young receivers and our OL is not as bad as it looks. Sure, we still need upgrades on the OL, but the results on the field was putrid and deceiving. With a little motivation, better play calling, confidence and younger players getting the opportunity, yesterday's results is long over due.


Further, add a few additional OL through FA or the draft and our offense would be much better, especially with a more precise QB. Add another RB and trade Portis or make him the primary backup or 3rd stringer. But this is the scenario that Zorn, Cerrato and Snyder face. Letting guys like Portis and a few others hit the road because it's long over due regarding the youth movement.

We always see other teams younger players exceed that we're drafted during the same time as our younger players and scratch our heads on why ours can't seem to excel during the same time frame. Easy, they play with teams that put them in better situations to succeed and let them play through the rough times. You cannot constantly yo-yo your younger players in and out of the lineup all the time. Especially when your counting on them to produce, learn and get better. So, in our case. Most of our younger players lose confidence because our coaches don't have confidence in them.


This was the same case with Betts and Cartwright IMO. I wasn't too sure on cartwright, but after last weeks game against the Falcons. I saw something in Cartwright that I wasn't seeing in Portis. A burst of quickness that Portis is now lacking and makes the OL look bad. Portis now relies on the lead blocker to do most of his dirty work to get an opening. And this is why IMO he and Sellers sort of fell apart. Portis can no longer find that hole if the lead blocker doesn't create one. But guys like Betts and Cartwright have that burst and can find the smallest opportunity and make the best of it. Portis will wait on the lead blocker and stumble up on the lead blocker and stumble on many occassions.


Also, coach Zorn as we all know was in over his head and now trying to take credit for the smallest plays that work. Ok maybe, but I'm not buying it. Like I've said before I had no problem with the bingo caller making the calls since Zorn couldn't put our players in positions to make plays and score. Especially our younger players. But now, what we're witnessing is a sort of youth movement by default from injuries. Our FO was depending too much on some of our veteran players and Zorn had no choice but to play them for his job sake. We we're too deep in to depend on our younger players because the trust factor just wasn't there.


And regarding the play calling again. I didn't care if our play caller was working at Mcdonalds before he got here. The resume that Sherm presented was to impresive to over look oppose to what we we're already seeing. Constantly trying to break the 10 point mark against some of the most putrid teams in the league.


Anyhow, here's to our new found redemption that was presented by our new play caller, injuries and the youth movement by default that was long over due. So, next year give me an upgrade at QB, a couple of young stud OL and another RB. Also, I wouldn't mind keeping Zorn depending on how the rest of the season goes. But if Zorn wants to get his play calling duties back next year, no thank you.


Let's see if this works next week, or if it was just a fluke.

:eaglesuck

[Stophovr6]

If there's a legitimate QB for our first round pick, I say we get him. If he's a reach and there's a good o lineman, take him.

[iMeast]

With a better QB we could have scored 35+ yesterday IMO. JC is so 50/50 its maddening.

Yeah, the bomb to Santana Moss would have been complete if Todd Collins was the one throwing it.

HTTR

[addicted]

What??!!!

I would trade back and keep on selecting linemen until I didn't have any picks left or maybe use one in the later rounds and take a shot at another QB project then bring in some aging vet to lead the team until Brennan or someone else is ready to take the reins.

First the problem with your logic is that we can only have 53 men on the roster at one time. So say we did what you suggest. Say we parlayed 7 picks into 14. There is no way we are going to keep 14 rookie linemen on the roster. So our draft picks have to mean something.

Second problem, more linemen doesn't mean your going to get any starters. That's why we must find a GM who can spot talent and make the picks work. Simply saying draft one position doesn't mean you get anyone worth a damn

Third problem, even if we had an ALL PRO line, with Campbell were still screwed. If we bring in some journeyman old dude to platy QB he's gonna bring with him his noodle arm. For an example of this and why it won't work see the Dallas Cowboys last year. An old dude and Jason Campbell is not what this team needs. We need youth and playmakers more then anything.

[REDALERT]

That's the way it is every week, this just happened to be the anamoly week where he won a game. This isn't usual for Jason but scoring 20 points in the game still sucks. Jason can't score points, never has never will.



Like I said, if we don't knock Orton out of the game our Defense would have been shreaded like they were in the first half and Denver likely would have won. Our win yesterday came because of the Defense. If our Defense can knock out any starting QB in the league I bet we can slow them down long enough to stay in the game. But if you want to look at this past game what I saw was:

1. The Defense give up big plays in the secondary
2. The Defense pressure the QB
3. The offense do nothing special
4. Special Teams make a play to help score

All of these things we've done in the past and we've lost most of these games. The reason we won this game was because the Defense knocked out the opposing QB. Of course if the Defense can do that again we should be in every game this year. However the Defense in the first half gave up 193 yards and 2 TD's to Kyle Orton. With much better QB's coming up like Romo, McNabb, Brees, Manning, and Rivers I'm sorry but I'm not believing any hype that were a better team then we were in the past. We got lucky and knocked out the QB, your blowing the roof off this when we've done nothing



When was the last time we busted up the opposing starting QB? If we can do that again which isn't likely we can win. I see us winning one more game this year, against the Raiders. If I'm right we go 4-12 this year. Your thread title was "...we need a franchise QB" and most of us have been saying that since last year. There was no "proof" of that this weekend. Nothing changed from last week or the week before or the year prior to make this any more true then in the past. Some of you just refuse to admit that Jason Campbells garbage, always been garbage, and always will be garbage. He isn't and never will be an answer or a franchise QB for this team.

Welcome to November 16, 2009...hope you have a wonderful day



I'm not dismissing any of your speculations, because most of it is just that. We gave up 2 big plays in the 1st quarter from blown coverages and that was one reason Carlos was benched. But whose to say Orton would have done the same thing for the entire game? We adjusted somewhat in the secondary after those 2 big plays and i'm not totally impressed what Orton.



Sure, Jason campbell can't score points for. But the last 2 games with a descent run attack and some better play calling and utilizing everyone, we score 20 points and the offense looks a helluva lot more fluent. Now! we all know the deal with Jason, but he did make a few plays that helped. We witnessed from last year after going 6-2 that if Jason has a better run game it helps him and the offense overall.


Further, before you can speculate that other QB's would shred us apart, let's just play the game against those QB's then make your analysis. And by the way, Mcnabb didn't shred us apart when we played the Eagles. If the offense can continue to put up some points. The Redskins have a chance to be in every game and probably would have won a few more games this year opposed to being 3-6 right now.

And speaking of special teams, they are part of the team and good special teams help win football games.

[Rodskins]

:logo:I have been reading the posts all year and most of us agree that it is time to move on. Campbell has had enough opportunity! I am tired and frustrated at watching him hestitate, overthrow, or just not even notice wide open receivers. Moss had his man blown away and JC wasn't even close, just like always. I know we need OLinemen, but lets draft a QB also. I wouldn't mind seeing a late round RB pick either. I'm just not a Portis fan. He is a punk and not a team player. It is time for changes!

P.S. Go Orakpo, you are the man!

[thedevilhimself]

:logo:I have been reading the posts all year and most of us agree that it is time to move on. Campbell has had enough opportunity! I am tired and frustrated at watching him hestitate, overthrow, or just not even notice wide open receivers. Moss had his man blown away and JC wasn't even close, just like always. I know we need OLinemen, but lets draft a QB also. I wouldn't mind seeing a late round RB pick either. I'm just not a Portis fan. He is a punk and not a team player. It is time for changes!

P.S. Go Orakpo, you are the man!

What is the point in drafting a QB .. we will never give them the tools or protection to succeed and the fan base will turn if he is not instantly Tom Brady ....

[addicted]

I'm not dismissing any of your speculations, because most of it is just that.

Oh please, the guy who says that after THIS WIN we need a franchise QB? :doh: Of course your not speculating here yourself and are correct :hysterical: All your doing is rehashing the same things I've been saying for weeks. I know it takes some time to catch up and believe but nothing you said here is "new thought", go ahead an read some of my posts months ago and you'll see the same things said over and over and over.



We gave up 2 big plays in the 1st quarter from blown coverages and that was one reason Carlos was benched. But whose to say Orton would have done the same thing for the entire game? We adjusted somewhat in the secondary after those 2 big plays and i'm not totally impressed what Orton.

Of course your not, you want to dismiss what he did to us in that first half and make up a fairy tale that we would have "made halftime adjustments" or some other bull like that. When was the last time the team made halftime adjustments? They made some briefly in the previous game but that was incredibly short lived. Saying that if Orton was still in the game in the second half that he wouldn't have performed as well as he did in the first half is just lying to yourself. We should have been down by more if it weren't for Orton over throwing another wide open receiver like he did.


Sure, Jason campbell can't score points for. But the last 2 games with a descent run attack and some better play calling and utilizing everyone, we score 20 points and the offense looks a helluva lot more fluent.

3 more points is considered "alot" to you? :silly:

Let me tell you after 8 games he scored 17 points a game, in this one he scored all of 3 more. That's not alot and it's not something to get excited about and make a wild accusation like "were turning it around". This is how bad we've become here, 3 points is something to throw a parade about :doh:



Now! we all know the deal with Jason, but he did make a few plays that helped. We witnessed from last year after going 6-2 that if Jason has a better run game it helps him and the offense overall.

Can't deny that he made a few plays but that's the problem with Jason. Every game he makes a "few" plays but hardly ever ever plays at a high pace for an entire game. And as for a running game helping, if the news out of the park today is correct and I see no reason to believe it's not, Portis will be back next game and there goes our running game. Its more important for the coaches and ownership to get thier ways then for us to do what's right for the team. These men set a great example :(

[CampbellIsAwesome]

On the missed pass to Yoder:

I would've liked this pass to be completed as much as anyone.

However lets be realistic. I sincerely doubt it's possible to throw a deep ball (just in terms of length) while running forward and no ability to plant your feet and throw. And even if Campbell had enough arm strength to get the ball that far down the field while running forward, I would imagine it to be pretty difficult to accurately throw the ball that far down the field while again running forward. Perhaps (and I am not making an excuse, but rather offering a possibility of what was going through our QB's mind) Campbell thought something like "I probably can't get the ball to Yoder while running forward, so I'll try and avoid this last pass rusher, then plant and throw". For a second lets say that is what Campbell was thinking. I don't think it's a bad idea as he is doing what he feels gives him the best chance of completing the long ball for a TD to Yoder.

Now some of you are going to jump on this with the typical "you are a Campbell apologist", "Campbell is an idiot", blah blah blah. But perhaps, just maybe Campbell is smarter in regards to Football than you are, and just maybe he did the right thing at the time, despite it not working out in the end.

Moral of the story: Enjoy the win, and quit complaining about every little thing that happens during the game that doesn't happen like you wanted it to. Remember, it's a game.

[thedevilhimself]

This is a QB-rich Draft. In the first tier you have Bradford, Clausen, Locker ... in the second tier you have Tebow and McCoy ... in the third teir you have Pike, Robinson, Lefevor, Hiller, Brown, Canfield, Riley, Kafka, Kaempenik and so on. All are an upgrade over Campbell. Skins will Draft one of these guys for sure ... let's leave it to Morroco Brown and Scott Campbell ... with reams of inside info ... to figure out who.

Bradford who is coming off his second shoulder surgery, Clausen who doesn't play in a pro offense .. Locker looks okay but is more of a runner than a passer ... Tebow is a TE Colt doesn't have an NFL arm ... Tony Pike is interesting safe (backup) but a 3rd/4th round pick again coming off surgery, Lefevor again is a late round selection, Hiller is too easily rattled and so on and so on ...

The collage draft class has many QBs in it but there is no real No.1. stepping up and is it not as deep as many would point out ...

Right now none of them are better than Campbell since none of them have stepped on an NFL field ..

I have no problem in upgrading from Campbell but I would rather get the rest of the team right first ... if we are picking in the top five i would rarther pick up Bulaga, Bruce Campbell, Gerald McCoy, Berry or Shu ... than reach for any of the QBs ...

The question I do have is when do we figure to draft or trade for a QB with a first round pick every 3 years or so ...when do we stick and see what we have ?

[REDALERT]

Of course your not, you want to dismiss what he did to us in that first half and make up a fairy tale that we would have "made halftime adjustments" or some other bull like that. When was the last time the team made halftime adjustments? They made some briefly in the previous game but that was incredibly short lived. Saying that if Orton was still in the game in the second half that he wouldn't have performed as well as he did in the first half is just lying to yourself. We should have been down by more if it weren't for Orton over throwing another wide open receiver like he did.


3 more points is considered "alot" to you? :silly:


Can't deny that he made a few plays but that's the problem with Jason. Every game he makes a "few" plays but hardly ever ever plays at a high pace for an entire game. And as for a running game helping, if the news out of the park today is correct and I see no reason to believe it's not, Portis will be back next game and there goes our running game. Its more important for the coaches and ownership to get thier ways then for us to do what's right for the team. These men set a great example :(

We made several halftime adjustments during several games, but on offense no, defense YES! .

And yes, scoring 20 pts. was a big deal to me especially when barely cracking the 10 point mark against some of the worst defenses in the league. Not to mention the Broncos are in the top 10 and not bottom feeders that we we're struggling with recently.


And if Larry(Cerrato) Curly(Zorn) and Moe(Snyder) let Portis play after Betts been looking sensational, it's stupidity and not a cause to eliminate us seeking our young future QB.

And speaking on QB, I guess we do agree that a QB should be selected in the 1st round because Campbells not working out and we need our franchise behind center. :D

[NoGravity]

Is Peyton, Tom or Carson going to be a FA next year?

rofl@Carson

[darrelgreenie]

Re: Sunday is proof why we need a Franchise QB


Sunday's results was no surprise to me, because last week was proof that the offense was lacking a running game which made everything else sort of breakdown in segments.........................Anyhow, here's to our new found redemption that was presented by our new play caller, injuries and the youth movement by default that was long over due. So, next year give me an upgrade at QB, a couple of young stud OL and another RB. Also, I wouldn't mind keeping Zorn depending on how the rest of the season goes. But if Zorn wants to get his play calling duties back next year, no thank you.

Dude in what way did Sundays game where is the prove why we need a franchise QB?

Because we won?
Because JC missed a couple throws?
Because JC was 9 for 9 in the second half?
Because re-shuffling of the OL and the tough yards by Betts and Rock gave us a running game?

I didn't learn anything new from Sunday's game.
We all should know that we can win with some hard running from the RB position and good OL play.

[zskins]

Colt Brennan will be the franchise QB for the Skins. With that said, we can concentrate on OL in the draft.

[Long-Time-Fan]

he had no time to pass to Yoder.
You guys kill me.
the OP mentions nothing in his original post as to why we need a franchise QB but rather talks about runing backs.

JC was 17/26 for 193 yards 1 TD and NO Int.'s
He's listed at 16th in terms of performace out of 32 QB's(2 spots behind Eli Manning)

You guys are the epitome of FAIR WEATHER fans

[Veretax]

JC locks onto receivers and can't find them when they are open.

[InsaneBoost]

At least he didn't throw two picks directly to the defense like someone who is one of the best.

[CampbellIsAwesome]

JC locks onto receivers and can't find them when they are open.

You see his eyes on every play? It's not like people have a wide field of view.... It's not like someone can look at multiple people without moving their head....

[wvuskinsfan]

If Jake Locher and Sam Bradford aren't there, then let;s trade down and get more linemen. I don't want to take a chance on a first round QB and find out 5 years later he's a bust... let's build a team that a franchise QB can come to and win right away, or at least give us an idea who's a franchise QB because he'd have a great o-line, running game, and receivers to throw to.

Jake Locker who hasn't proved anything really in college and Sam im made of glass bradford, are you serious???

[DexterSackMachine]

I was curious about the prospects of drafting a franchise QB, and what the percentages look like on drafting one with a high pick so I decided to look at the last 11 years and see how it panned out:

1999:
1.1 Tim Couch
1.2 Donovan McNabb
1.3 Akili Smith
1.11 Daunte Culpepper
1.12 Cade McNown
2.19 Shaun King

2000
1.18 Chad Pennington

2001
1.1 Michael Vick
2.1 Drew Brees
2.21 Quincy Carter
2.29 Marques Tuiasosopo

2002
1.1 David Carr
1.3 Joey Harrington
1.32 Patrick Ramsey

2003
1.1 Carson Palmer
1.7 Byron Leftwich
1.19 Kyle Boller
1.22 Rex Grossman

2004
1.1 Eli Manning
1.4 Philip Rivers
1.11 Ben Roethlisberger
1.22 J.P. Losman

2005
1.1 Alex Smith
1.24 Aaron Rodgers
1.25 Jason Campbell

2006
1.3 Vince Young
1.10 Matt Leinart
1.11 Jay Cutler
2.17 Kellen Clemens
2.32 Tarvaris Jackson

2007
1.1 JaMarcus Russell
1.22 Brady Quinn
2.4 Kevin Kolb
2.7 John Beck
2.10 Drew Stanton

2008
1.3 Matt Ryan
1.18 Joe Flacco
2.24 Brian Brohm
2.25 Chad Henne

2009
1.1 Matt Stafford
1.5 Mark Sanchez
1.17 Josh Freeman
2.11 Pat White

Just taking a look at all of these blue chippers, it's obvious that picking a franchise QB, even in the first round is difficult. Those who try and hit are rewarded with a McNabb, Brees, Palmer, Manning, or Big Ben. Missing on the pick means spending a high pick on a name like McCown, Carter, Boller, or Stanton.

It's a high risk/high reward prospect, but I think you'd find that in picking O-Lineman high as well.

[peanut0862]

Everyone who wants an ol in the the first round Mel Kiper only has one in the top 25 thats Russell Okung so if we pick out of the top 5 we will not have a chance at him. Do we reach for an o lineman or draft some other position

[cchhdd25]

1. I pray we get Bradford to drop to us like Osakpo did this year

2. If you can't get a quality RT (hoping levi jones stays) in round two and a borderline starting guard / center in round 4 then your line isn't the problem your gm is.

3. To all those that think Brennan is our future please please please stop posting. Ask as many NFL experts as you can and i bet over 90% of them will not see Brennan as more than a career backup at best. Undersized, poor decision maker, average to below average arm, and did not play in a pro style offense in college. Oh yea and on IR all this year too... that doesn't help for progress. Yea he had good stats in his rookie year during the preseason..but he made a lot of risky passes that just happened to pay off. Other than that.. and especially this preseason.. he hasn't shown anything that warrants a backup job much less a starter.

[skinsfan1523]

You see his eyes on every play? It's not like people have a wide field of view.... It's not like someone can look at multiple people without moving their head....


Lol, this must be the ultimate campbell apologist with that name.

[skinsfan1523]

On the missed pass to Yoder:

I would've liked this pass to be completed as much as anyone.

However lets be realistic. I sincerely doubt it's possible to throw a deep ball (just in terms of length) while running forward and no ability to plant your feet and throw. And even if Campbell had enough arm strength to get the ball that far down the field while running forward, I would imagine it to be pretty difficult to accurately throw the ball that far down the field while again running forward. Perhaps (and I am not making an excuse, but rather offering a possibility of what was going through our QB's mind) Campbell thought something like "I probably can't get the ball to Yoder while running forward, so I'll try and avoid this last pass rusher, then plant and throw". For a second lets say that is what Campbell was thinking. I don't think it's a bad idea as he is doing what he feels gives him the best chance of completing the long ball for a TD to Yoder.

Now some of you are going to jump on this with the typical "you are a Campbell apologist", "Campbell is an idiot", blah blah blah. But perhaps, just maybe Campbell is smarter in regards to Football than you are, and just maybe he did the right thing at the time, despite it not working out in the end.

Moral of the story: Enjoy the win, and quit complaining about every little thing that happens during the game that doesn't happen like you wanted it to. Remember, it's a game.


Do you think campbell is a good QB? I used to be on his bandwagon this season has opened my eyes though. He misses many open receivers, and waits for people to get open before he throws them the ball, he still can't connect with Moss deep, he rarely hits recivers in stride, checks down a lot of the time when he doesn't need to, hell he can't even slide right. What makes you think that was going through his head, he simply did not see him, you can see in the replay that he did not even look at him, and with him being that wide open it's inexcusable to not throw him the ball. Also Campbell has more then enough strength to throw him the ball in that situation.

[veteranskinsfan]

The replay of Yoder being open that JC missed was unreal. I could not believe my eyes when I saw him waving his hands hoping Campbell would see him so wide open. I am sure Zorn and some of his receivers told him when he got back to the bench. You should be able to scramble with your head focused straight ahead and Yoder was in the dead center part of the field and JC was running straight towards him. Oh well, JC and Carlos Rogers will both be gone next year.

[mi6]

With a better QB we could have scored 35+ yesterday IMO. JC is so 50/50 its maddening.

You are so right! Jason "Mr. Clueless" Campbell is a below average QB. If we had a more precise passer like Tom Brady or Peyton we would have won more games this year, and put up more points in yesterday's game!

[alwaysaskin]

Seriously, we need help on the O-Line. Levi Jones had a good game, but Heyer still sucks, Montgomery shouldn't be playing and Rabach is god awful. Bradford has faced crappy Defenses, the one time he faced a good D, he didn't look like a sure fire thing

[BlackBush]

If Tebow is on the board I can see Snyder pulling the trigger (and I think that would be a terrible choice).
I doubt we'd be dumb enough for Tebow but if Snyder has seen this
http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad250/happyhelmet/EricBerryForcesA360.gif (http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad250/happyhelmet/EricBerryForcesA360.gif)
you can say bye to Landry.
/Offensive line? huh?

[darrelgreenie]

You are so right! Jason "Mr. Clueless" Campbell is a below average QB. If we had a more precise passer like Tom Brady or Peyton we would have won more games this year, and put up more points in yesterday's game!

LoL because Campbell isn't Brady or Manning he is a below average QB riiiggghhhhhhtttt

And since QBs like Brady and Manning grow on trees we'll be able to grab one in the draft and all the Redskins problems are solved.

Boom-presto the "franchise" QB saves the day!

LoL, get a grip bro.

Question are there any franchise QBs on bad teams?

"Franchise" QBs don't exsist in a vacuum.

There are good QBs playing at a high level on good teams.
And when a good QB has talent around them with good coaching and continuity they can become "franchise" QBs.

[skins2victory]

The replay of his miss of Yoder driving at the end of the first half was absolutely maddening. He didnt even look.

-I agree with this absolutely, I was as mad as anyone, BUT......

-Some people act like JC is the only QB that dosent see WR sometimes when they are wide open, and he is not. Every football game I watch, not just skins games, I see WR that are wide open and dont get thrown to, it happends. But yes big Todd was wide open, and that sucked.

[Mahons21]

Question are there any franchise QBs on bad teams?
-Drew Brees last year comes to mind, Matt Schaub this year comes to mind... And you may also because confusing cause and effect... Are there no franchise QB's on bad teams because all franchise QB's are is a descent QB on a great team, or are there no franchise QB's on bad teams because franchise QB's help the play of those around them, and can help a team deal with adversity so on

-If franchise QB's really are just a product of there surrounding teammates, when players like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning go out due to injury there shouldn't be a huge drop off in production from the QB position but there is.. There is a reason Tom Brady can play with linemen that have never played football to this year (his LT didn't even speak english), his RG a college wrestler... Does a lot of this have to due with the Patriots great talent evaluation, of course, but you also have to understand how a QB can help make their teammates look better than they really are.


"Franchise" QBs don't exsist in a vacuum.

There are good QBs playing at a high level on good teams.
And when a good QB has talent around them with good coaching and continuity they can become "franchise" QBs.

-Ya continuity, it seems to work for the teams with franchise QB's, but not others. The skins for example certainly haven't shown a vast level of improvement in the offense, yet all off season I heard "the second year in the offense" well it is the second year in the offense, and the offense for the most part has looked about as bad as it did down the stretch last season.

-Franchise QB's are players that have such a knowledge and instinct of the game, that they virtually could be their own o-coordinator.. Then there are the other guys, that for whatever reason just don't get it, they have the intangibles but they just don't have the same instincts.

[Mahons21]

-I agree with this absolutely, I was as mad as anyone, BUT......

-Some people act like JC is the only QB that dosent see WR sometimes when they are wide open, and he is not. Every football game I watch, not just skins games, I see WR that are wide open and dont get thrown to, it happends. But yes big Todd was wide open, and that sucked.

-Its one thing when a WR is on a QB's blindside and the QB doesn't make it through his progressions to that side of the field, and you only miss 10 yards... Its another in a close game when a TE is down the middle of the field with no one within 5 yards... I think thats what people are upset about, JC seems to miss receivers at the most inopportune moments.

[skins2victory]

-Its one thing when a WR is on a QB's blindside and the QB doesn't make it through his progressions to that side of the field, and you only miss 10 yards... Its another in a close game when a TE is down the middle of the field with no one within 5 yards... I think thats what people are upset about, JC seems to miss receivers at the most inopportune moments.

O ya, I agree!! I think it was unaceptable to not see Yoder there. Im just saying that some people act like JC is the only QB that dosent see wide open recivers some times, because I see it happen in every NFL game I watch.

[Newera]

Zorns is such an idiot for a coach. I can't wait for him to be gone. I mean he's still protecting Portis in his presser. I'm like "Dude, it's not about making people fill good, it's about winning games. The six quarters that Betts has played the offense is completely different and certainly more effective.

Jason can only be effective with a running game. Stop our running game you stop the Redskins because Jason is not a competent enough quarterback to beat you with his arm. If we had a decent quarterback that can make plays with his arm, read defenses, and see the field, how good can this team be. We will never know because Zorn is entirely too loyal to be a decent coach.







Portis is washed up. Let it go.

[Jeff in D.C.]

As far as the QB situation next year, there are 4 options:

1. Re-sign Jason (I'm not in favor of this, just saying it's one of the options)
2. Hands the keys to Colt and see how he does
3. Draft a Bradford/McCoy/etc. and start him as a rookie
4. Trade for or sign a guy who's been a backup who they think is perhaps in the mold of a Matt Cassel

Personally I like option 2, let's see what Colt can do. QB's picked in the 1st/2nd rounds are a crap shoot, and it would free up the picks to be spent on the OL where they should be spent.

[TheTotalPackage]

Look

Since 1991, we have had to endure stan humphries, heath shuler, gus frerotte, trent green, tony banks, brad johnson, jeff george, danny wonderful, shane matthews, pat ramsey, tim hasselbeck, mark brunell.

Some of them were better than others. But I'm sick of the revolving door. Some teeams have only had 2 or 3 starting qbs in that same timeframe. JC is the closest thing to a franchise qb (while he's still young) than we have had in a long time; and he's really not the biggest thing wrong with this team, nor is he the 2nd biggest or even the third.. I say we should be grateful for what we've got and retain him for the time being while we address more pressing needs.

[mcarey032]

Sunday's results was no surprise to me, because last week was proof that the offense was lacking a running game which made everything else sort of breakdown in segments.

I was telling my fellow skins fans at the sports bar that Portis's concussion was unfortunate. But in retospect was the best thing that could happen to this offense. I've been saying all along that our young receivers and our OL is not as bad as it looks. Sure, we still need upgrades on the OL, but the results on the field was putrid and deceiving. With a little motivation, better play calling, confidence and younger players getting the opportunity, yesterday's results is long over due.


Further, add a few additional OL through FA or the draft and our offense would be much better, especially with a more precise QB. Add another RB and trade Portis or make him the primary backup or 3rd stringer. But this is the scenario that Zorn, Cerrato and Snyder face. Letting guys like Portis and a few others hit the road because it's long over due regarding the youth movement.

We always see other teams younger players exceed that we're drafted during the same time as our younger players and scratch our heads on why ours can't seem to excel during the same time frame. Easy, they play with teams that put them in better situations to succeed and let them play through the rough times. You cannot constantly yo-yo your younger players in and out of the lineup all the time. Especially when your counting on them to produce, learn and get better. So, in our case. Most of our younger players lose confidence because our coaches don't have confidence in them.


This was the same case with Betts and Cartwright IMO. I wasn't too sure on cartwright, but after last weeks game against the Falcons. I saw something in Cartwright that I wasn't seeing in Portis. A burst of quickness that Portis is now lacking and makes the OL look bad. Portis now relies on the lead blocker to do most of his dirty work to get an opening. And this is why IMO he and Sellers sort of fell apart. Portis can no longer find that hole if the lead blocker doesn't create one. But guys like Betts and Cartwright have that burst and can find the smallest opportunity and make the best of it. Portis will wait on the lead blocker and stumble up on the lead blocker and stumble on many occassions.


Also, coach Zorn as we all know was in over his head and now trying to take credit for the smallest plays that work. Ok maybe, but I'm not buying it. Like I've said before I had no problem with the bingo caller making the calls since Zorn couldn't put our players in positions to make plays and score. Especially our younger players. But now, what we're witnessing is a sort of youth movement by default from injuries. Our FO was depending too much on some of our veteran players and Zorn had no choice but to play them for his job sake. We we're too deep in to depend on our younger players because the trust factor just wasn't there.


And regarding the play calling again. I didn't care if our play caller was working at Mcdonalds before he got here. The resume that Sherm presented was to impresive to over look oppose to what we we're already seeing. Constantly trying to break the 10 point mark against some of the most putrid teams in the league.


Anyhow, here's to our new found redemption that was presented by our new play caller, injuries and the youth movement by default that was long over due. So, next year give me an upgrade at QB, a couple of young stud OL and another RB. Also, I wouldn't mind keeping Zorn depending on how the rest of the season goes. But if Zorn wants to get his play calling duties back next year, no thank you.

Where was your proof that we need a franchise QB? You gave all these reasons about the OL and the RBs and Portis, but you barely mentioned anything about Campbell. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Campbell is elite or anything like that but where are you going to get this franchise QB? On the free agency market? Not likely? Are you willing to draft a QB? You are taking a risk and you are basically in a rebuilding year. Unless there is a great and viable option next year, you keep Campbell draft a QB and put it up for competition and may the best guy win. Unless some QB becomes available that I am unaware of, we keep Campbell and draft a QB in either the first or second round.

[thedevilhimself]

-Drew Brees last year comes to mind, Matt Schaub this year comes to mind... And you may also because confusing cause and effect... Are there no franchise QB's on bad teams because all franchise QB's are is a descent QB on a great team, or are there no franchise QB's on bad teams because franchise QB's help the play of those around them, and can help a team deal with adversity so on

-If franchise QB's really are just a product of there surrounding teammates, when players like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning go out due to injury there shouldn't be a huge drop off in production from the QB position but there is.. There is a reason Tom Brady can play with linemen that have never played football to this year (his LT didn't even speak english), his RG a college wrestler... Does a lot of this have to due with the Patriots great talent evaluation, of course, but you also have to understand how a QB can help make their teammates look better than they really are.



-Ya continuity, it seems to work for the teams with franchise QB's, but not others. The skins for example certainly haven't shown a vast level of improvement in the offense, yet all off season I heard "the second year in the offense" well it is the second year in the offense, and the offense for the most part has looked about as bad as it did down the stretch last season.

-Franchise QB's are players that have such a knowledge and instinct of the game, that they virtually could be their own o-coordinator.. Then there are the other guys, that for whatever reason just don't get it, they have the intangibles but they just don't have the same instincts.

HUH ? Ypu cannot be a franchise QB on a bad team ?... I would say Drew Brees is a franchise QB but the saints have not been a great team until this year....

Matt Schuab is not what I would call a franchise QB ... sometimes QBs are boosted by having awsome WRs to throw to . In Schuabs case that is Andre Johnson . Schuab never takes over games, doesn't strike that fear and hasn't played a whole season since joining the Texans ....Also when Ferrotte has stepped in for him he looked just as good if not better .... I would not call Kyle Orton a franchise QB either he happens to have Brandon Marshell to throw at ... I would not call Kurt Warner right now a franchise back either ... and Jay Cutler is so far from a franchise QB it is not true ...

Guys like Tom Brady and Payton Manning are rare, although if a Matt Cassel can take the Pats to 11-5 you have to think the system is not bad in NE ..

the Matt Cassell thing also shows you really don't need a franchise type back ... If your system is solid you should have success as long as your QB doesn't become a turnover machine (Cutler) ... The bears made it to the superbowl with Grossman under C

Also continuity is not hey we have stuck with this system for nearly two seasons .... or this QB has started for nearly three seasons ...lets change everything ... That is pretty much the opposite of continuity ... This is why we get into this suck cycle ...

[thedevilhimself]

As far as the QB situation next year, there are 4 options:

1. Re-sign Jason (I'm not in favor of this, just saying it's one of the options)
2. Hands the keys to Colt and see how he does
3. Draft a Bradford/McCoy/etc. and start him as a rookie
4. Trade for or sign a guy who's been a backup who they think is perhaps in the mold of a Matt Cassel

Personally I like option 2, let's see what Colt can do. QB's picked in the 1st/2nd rounds are a crap shoot, and it would free up the picks to be spent on the OL where they should be spent.

I wouldn't mind an open competition with Colt and Campbell and maybe another drafted guy (mid rounds) but Colt has struggled with the full play book and was essentially outplayed by Chase Daniel ...

[polywog999]

Sorry, you don't just pull a franchise QB out of your ass because you need one. Everybody want's a great QB. I don't think anyone out there says..."you know, we really need a Journeyman game-manager to complement our Superbowl-bound team!"

[redskins55]

These types of threads are getting ridiculous...

Everyone knows Jason is a game manager ok... It's been debated and confirmed 10 times over!! The question is.. Can a game manager win the Super Bowl? The answer is absolutely YES. So let's just give it a rest and support the quality QB we have. Like an earlier poster said.. If Manning, Brady, or Brees arn't available next year where do you suppose the Redskins get their franchise QB from? It's much easier to build a great team around a good QB and win it all than to gamble everything on a franchise QB and still have gaping holes in the areas we most need to improve. If there is a QB in college right now that is franchise material please let me know!

[Veretax]

You see his eyes on every play? It's not like people have a wide field of view.... It's not like someone can look at multiple people without moving their head....


Do you think campbell is a good QB? I used to be on his bandwagon this season has opened my eyes though. He misses many open receivers, and waits for people to get open before he throws them the ball, he still can't connect with Moss deep, he rarely hits recivers in stride, checks down a lot of the time when he doesn't need to, hell he can't even slide right. What makes you think that was going through his head, he simply did not see him, you can see in the replay that he did not even look at him, and with him being that wide open it's inexcusable to not throw him the ball. Also Campbell has more then enough strength to throw him the ball in that situation.


That is precisely what I was going to say in reply. Jason misses open guys too often for him to not be locking onto his reads. It may not be the same guy for the whole play, but he rarely gets passed his second progression.


As far as the QB situation next year, there are 4 options:

1. Re-sign Jason (I'm not in favor of this, just saying it's one of the options)
2. Hands the keys to Colt and see how he does
3. Draft a Bradford/McCoy/etc. and start him as a rookie
4. Trade for or sign a guy who's been a backup who they think is perhaps in the mold of a Matt Cassel

Personally I like option 2, let's see what Colt can do. QB's picked in the 1st/2nd rounds are a crap shoot, and it would free up the picks to be spent on the OL where they should be spent.

There's a fifth option, Draft a QB to sit, and let Colt Brennan have a shot to lead the team while he sits. If Colt takes off we have a player we can trade for more picks or players later ;)

[redskins55]

The replay of Yoder being open that JC missed was unreal. I could not believe my eyes when I saw him waving his hands hoping Campbell would see him so wide open. I am sure Zorn and some of his receivers told him when he got back to the bench. You should be able to scramble with your head focused straight ahead and Yoder was in the dead center part of the field and JC was running straight towards him. Oh well, JC and Carlos Rogers will both be gone next year.

Some of you need to check out the press conferences and get your information before posting. Zorn clearly said that the play was designed for one route and one route only. Yoder was the DECOY!! They practiced it all week and not once told Jason to look for Yoder so why would he look for Yoder in the game? I understand frustrations for not throwing it to him, but you must understand that in football sometimes things arnt what they seem. If you practice a play all week and the coaches tell you the only route to look for and throw to is X but in the game on Sunday Y is wide open, how will you know to throw it to Y ?? That's a coaching blunder not player :doh:

[Chump Bailey]

A little off of the subject and this might have even been mentioned somewhere else before but; has anyone else moticed that Campbell is almost a 100% better passer while on the run than when he plants his feet?

I have. That first down flick of his to DT I think is evidence of that. That seemed like a fairly difficult pass to attempt and he nailed DT between the numbers. Makes you wonder.

[RED06]

Congratulations! That's the most pathetic piece of JC apologetics that I have ever read!

Dude I'm telling you what Zorn said, show me anywhere in my post where "I" said I agree with him!?!?!?!?!? Congratulations on NOT reading..............

RED06

[RED06]

Some of you need to check out the press conferences and get your information before posting. Zorn clearly said that the play was designed for one route and one route only. Yoder was the DECOY!! They practiced it all week and not once told Jason to look for Yoder so why would he look for Yoder in the game? I understand frustrations for not throwing it to him, but you must understand that in football sometimes things arnt what they seem. If you practice a play all week and the coaches tell you the only route to look for and throw to is X but in the game on Sunday Y is wide open, how will you know to throw it to Y ?? That's a coaching blunder not player :doh:

THANK YOU! That's what i was explaining to some of these "EXTREME" Jason Campbell bashers on here. They don't hear any reasoning that will refute their belief. Yet plenty of other QB's miss things ALL THE TIME and they give them a pass yet the HEAD DANG COACH said it wasn't Jason Campbell's fault and they still say well this or that................ its pointless trying to reason with these people bro. GOOD LUCK!!!!!

RED06

[RED06]

Didn't he actually say that Yoder was a decoy on the play, but that you would hope that if there is a blown coverage like that they could get it to him?

He (Zorn) said it was a 1 WR route which means you don't even look at a decoy! And Jason Campbell executed what they asked him to do, and what I'm trying to understand is if that's the case, why are guys still trying to make it on Jason Campbell? I know why, because they don't want to hear that something wasn't on him but it was on the play that was called the he did his job on, ALTHOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH IT BECAUSE IT WAS AN EASY TOUCHDOWN! But if that's the way you practice it that way (which they did) he has to follow what they asked him to do, whether we like it or not.

RED06

[RED06]

So let me get this straight. Zorn wanted Campbell to ignore the WIDE OPEN tight end at the goal line and instead he wanted Campbell to get an intentional grounding call? Do you really think that's what they asked him to do? Really?

Do you think that there might be a teeny, eeny, weeny chance that Zorn was making sure he didn't call out his QB in a press conference???

Do you think there's a teeny, weeny, chance you didn't see the press conference? Because if you did would've understood why Yoder wasn't looked at. And why would Zorn say that Campbell missed on Moss and Davis but give him a pass and "NOT" throw him under the bus as you say for missing Yoder?

Dude you don't like Campbell just like many of you that post in EVERY Campbell thread with the same ole bashing garbage and REALLY DON'T care what the coaches say etc etc etc. WHY? Because you'll are message board experts, coaches, playcallers, coordinators, GM's and eveything alike!

Fact is that we ALL know from looking at the presser is that it was a 1 WR route and Yoder was a decoy which in essence you never even look the decoy way. Zorn said that Campbell did exactly what "THEY" asked him to do. PERIOD! So you and your little crew need to find Zorn's email address and send him ALL of you'll "what he should've done messages and how Jason Campbell is this and that" and see where it gets you.

RED06

[NoGravity]

These types of threads are getting ridiculous...

Everyone knows Jason is a game manager ok... It's been debated and confirmed 10 times over!! The question is.. Can a game manager win the Super Bowl? The answer is absolutely YES. So let's just give it a rest and support the quality QB we have. Like an earlier poster said.. If Manning, Brady, or Brees arn't available next year where do you suppose the Redskins get their franchise QB from? It's much easier to build a great team around a good QB and win it all than to gamble everything on a franchise QB and still have gaping holes in the areas we most need to improve. If there is a QB in college right now that is franchise material please let me know!

Jason Campbell a game manager? Game manager's win games...I'm almost positive JC has at least twice as many losses as wins or more.

About a game manager winning a SB...not really. Unless your D is unbelievably phenomenal that is (shooting down your trent dilfer response before it happens).

[Wyvern]

Look

Since 1991, we have had to endure stan humphries, heath shuler, gus frerotte, trent green, tony banks, brad johnson, jeff george, danny wonderful, shane matthews, pat ramsey, tim hasselbeck, mark brunell.

Some of them were better than others. But I'm sick of the revolving door. Some teeams have only had 2 or 3 starting qbs in that same timeframe. JC is the closest thing to a franchise qb (while he's still young) than we have had in a long time; and he's really not the biggest thing wrong with this team, nor is he the 2nd biggest or even the third.. I say we should be grateful for what we've got and retain him for the time being while we address more pressing needs.

[Note to TheTotalPackage: I agree with you there are many pressing needs, -- but IMO QB is now in the top 2, just for how long it takes to develop a QB. Sorry to take your post in a different direction, but I highlighted one section of your post that represents a position I would like to see explored further. ]

I have to disagree. Apparently, we're willing to lower the bar on what constitutes a good franchise QB for Washington, because it's been a while?

Campbell has never shown enough to me to be considered franchise level. Defenses don't fear him. Heck, he's not even the team's leader while playing at a position that's often the team's natural leadership position. (Even the mediots hyping the game never refer to "Jason Campbell and the Redskins" -- in the past Portis was usually the one mentioned, as the primary big gun for our team.)

I could go on and on. ... But this has been said time and time again. You've heard it all before.

But at this point -- I'm at a loss to understand why Campbell still has such fervent supporters. What exactly does Campbell do that is superior to other NFL QBs? What specifically does he do that well?

Frankly, I just don't see anything he does well, beyond playing it safe. Rather than quoting %'s and 'safe' stats -- what do JC-supporters claim that Campbell does really well? Short passes? Reading defenses? Accurate long-bombs? Coming through in the clutch? Pocket-presence? ...What?

[addicted]

Colt Brennan will be the franchise QB for the Skins. With that said, we can concentrate on OL in the draft.
:hysterical: if those fools think that were totally screwed

[addicted]

he had no time to pass to Yoder.
You guys kill me.
the OP mentions nothing in his original post as to why we need a franchise QB but rather talks about runing backs.

JC was 17/26 for 193 yards 1 TD and NO Int.'s
He's listed at 16th in terms of performace out of 32 QB's(2 spots behind Eli Manning)

You guys are the epitome of FAIR WEATHER fans

And this is considered a "good game" by Jason's standards...16th out of 32 QB's. Our expectations are so low on this team it's scarey :doh:

[addicted]

Just taking a look at all of these blue chippers, it's obvious that picking a franchise QB, even in the first round is difficult. Those who try and hit are rewarded with a McNabb, Brees, Palmer, Manning, or Big Ben. Missing on the pick means spending a high pick on a name like McCown, Carter, Boller, or Stanton.

It's a high risk/high reward prospect, but I think you'd find that in picking O-Lineman high as well.

The part I bolded is perfect. See most people are so wrapped around the idea that it's possible to draft a bust at QB that they seem to over look the fact that no position is without risk. It's not that easy to judge when a linemen fails but I'm sure that happens with a regularity that rivals the QB position. The difference is when you hit on a linemen like we did with Chris Samuals that doesn't produce immediate results like bringing in guys like McNabb did for his team. This is why you have to admit that linemen also fail and take the risk of drafting a QB regardless. It's a high risk, high reward position but something that if we want to become relevant again must bite the bullet on and do.

[addicted]

Look

Since 1991, we have had to endure stan humphries, heath shuler, gus frerotte, trent green, tony banks, brad johnson, jeff george, danny wonderful, shane matthews, pat ramsey, tim hasselbeck, mark brunell.

Some of them were better than others. But I'm sick of the revolving door. Some teeams have only had 2 or 3 starting qbs in that same timeframe. JC is the closest thing to a franchise qb (while he's still young) than we have had in a long time; and he's really not the biggest thing wrong with this team, nor is he the 2nd biggest or even the third.. I say we should be grateful for what we've got and retain him for the time being while we address more pressing needs.

QB is the one position on the entire team that if we were more productive and got better play at that would instantly make this a much stronger team. For the past several years our Defense has played at a high level and our offenses have been back of the pack crappy. When is it going to get through some of you that we stand to be a very good team with just a better QB then we have? We easily could have 6 or 7 wins with the schedule we've played this year with a better QB who didn't make all of the mistakes that Campbell makes. I will never be grateful for Jason Campbell. While I am sure we could do worse at that position (the idea of Colt Brenan being our starter) I am positive that we can do better as well (Any of the top half of the QB's in the league would be an improvement over Jason Campbell) and with the real problem being the ability to score we need a new QB

[addicted]

These types of threads are getting ridiculous...

Everyone knows Jason is a game manager ok... It's been debated and confirmed 10 times over!! The question is.. Can a game manager win the Super Bowl? The answer is absolutely YES. So let's just give it a rest and support the quality QB we have. Like an earlier poster said.. If Manning, Brady, or Brees arn't available next year where do you suppose the Redskins get their franchise QB from? It's much easier to build a great team around a good QB and win it all than to gamble everything on a franchise QB and still have gaping holes in the areas we most need to improve. If there is a QB in college right now that is franchise material please let me know!

The draft is where you find your next franchise QB, pretty simple folks. Everyone mentions Brees and Brady like this guy but hey someone quick tell me if Franchise QB's are the holy grail of the NFL why weren't these men picked number one or close to it in the draft? Because no one knows what's best, who's better, or anything. This isn't an exact science and posters like this crack me up acting like they know for certain someone isn't any good like this. If the experts can't get it right year after year after year you think you can :doh:

As for your "game manager" theory, I totally disagree. First a true game manager doesn't loss you the game, Jason's turnovers and inaccurate throws have lost most of these games this year. Game managers are players who neither you put the game on their shoulders to outright win it or ask to lose it for your team. Jason's not a game manager. The reason some people think he is a game manager QB is because his numbers are similar to one. The difference is game managers if presented with open receivers will be able to hit these men and make plays. Jason doesn't do that either. Finally for game managers to win there defenses must keep them in games and keep the games close. This doesn't happen for us either. The only similarities with a game manager QB and Jason Campbell are they both play QB, nothing more.

[addicted]

But at this point -- I'm at a loss to understand why Campbell still has such fervent supporters. What exactly does Campbell do that is superior to other NFL QBs? What specifically does he do that well?

Frankly, I just don't see anything he does well, beyond playing it safe. Rather than quoting %'s and 'safe' stats -- what do JC-supporters claim that Campbell does really well? Short passes? Reading defenses? Accurate long-bombs? Coming through in the clutch? Pocket-presence? ...What?

Been asking the same exact questions all season since Samuals came out saying Jason had 7 games to prove he was our QB in the offseason and these fans of Campbell never ever answer the questions. They just want to play Jason Campbell. I think they don't answer it because they can't. They know it defies logic and reasoning to continue to play this man and support him when he has no redeeming qualities but they do anyway. I don't get it either :helmet:

[Buford]

Been asking the same exact questions all season since Samuals came out saying Jason had 7 games to prove he was our QB in the offseason and these fans of Campbell never ever answer the questions. They just want to play Jason Campbell. I think they don't answer it because they can't. They know it defies logic and reasoning to continue to play this man and support him when he has no redeeming qualities but they do anyway. I don't get it either :helmet:


Bigger question is.....why do you replace him with? Colt Brennan? Really? Last preseason he was outplayed by a 5'10 rookie. So, if you are for giving Colt a shot....I am cool with that. But doesn't he need to win that #2 before jumping to #1?

[darrelgreenie]

-Drew Brees last year comes to mind, Matt Schaub this year comes to mind... And you may also because confusing cause and effect... Are there no franchise QB's on bad teams because all franchise QB's are is a descent QB on a great team, or are there no franchise QB's on bad teams because franchise QB's help the play of those around them, and can help a team deal with adversity so on

I wouldn't call the Saints or Texans bad teams.
They booth have stability, good coaching and talent especially on offense.
Both have a true number 1 receiver, both have good OL.


-If franchise QB's really are just a product of there surrounding teammates, when players like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning go out due to injury there shouldn't be a huge drop off in production from the QB position but there is

Yeah the Patriots were horrible without Brady....oh wait they 11-5 with a Matt Cassell a QB that never threw a pass in college or in pros who is now one putting up worse stats then Tyler Thigpen.

or

Look at Kyle Orton with Broncos.
Or Jay Cutler with the Bears.


.. There is a reason Tom Brady can play with linemen that have never played football to this year (his LT didn't even speak english), his RG a college wrestler... Does a lot of this have to due with the Patriots great talent evaluation, of course, but you also have to understand how a QB can help make their teammates look better than they really are.

Yeah its called continuity, good scouting and good caoching.


-Ya continuity, it seems to work for the teams with franchise QB's, but not others. The skins for example certainly haven't shown a vast level of improvement in the offense, yet all off season I heard "the second year in the offense" well it is the second year in the offense, and the offense for the most part has looked about as bad as it did down the stretch last season.

1.5 Seasons is not continuity in anyones book.
Any honest person can see that the Redskins haven't had continuity and its one of the reasons why we struggle.
And the offense was more productive it just wasn't scoring points.
Part of the issue was correctly identified as a playcalling/coaching issue another was the OL issue another was the RB another is the production form the 2nd year receivers although this could be linked to the coaching issue.



-Franchise QB's are players that have such a knowledge and instinct of the game, that they virtually could be their own o-coordinator.. Then there are the other guys, that for whatever reason just don't get it, they have the intangibles but they just don't have the same instincts.

You know how many QBs know their offense well enough to be their own OC? Probably 2 Brady and Manning.
I read that Brady often runs the QB meetings and we all know that Manning is basically the OC with Tom Moore giving him suggestions.
*(And Tebow in Florida he sits in with the coaches during their gameplan meeting) ;)

You know how many offensive systems Brady has been in?
1 the Erhardt-Perkins offense.
You know how many systems Manning has been in?
1 Tom Moore's system.

Like i said in my post a franchise QB is a good QB playing at a high level on a good team with good coaching, talent and continuity.

Has JC had any of these elements and continuity?

Until the team improves we'll never have a "franchise" QB because a franchise QB isn't simply drafted; franchise QBs are products of a good franchise.

So yeah we can keep changing QBs and changing systems in the search for the messaih QB who can magically turn Batiste into a healthy Chris Samuels and Will Montgomery into a healthy Randy Thomas.
Then he'll make Portis 4 years younger with the running style he had in Denver.
Then he'll make Santana Moss be able to beat press coverage and get open against double teams and be able to make the tough catch like a true No.1
Then he fix the gameplanning and playcalling issue by writing the playbook himself then calling the plays.
Heck the messiah QB might even take control of the player personnel dept.

[Mahons21]

I wouldn't call the Saints or Texans bad teams.
They booth have stability, good coaching and talent especially on offense.
Both have a true number 1 receiver, both have good OL.
-You said "bad teams," not bad offenses. And the Saints last year certainly weren't anything phenomenal, nor have the Texans been this year, even though there QB was leading in TD's a couple of weeks ago.




Yeah the Patriots were horrible without Brady....oh wait they 11-5 with a Matt Cassell a QB that never threw a pass in college or in pros who is now one putting up worse stats then Tyler Thigpen.
-16-0, to 11-5, yaa thats not a drop off in performance at all... Just a quick 5 game swing.




Look at Kyle Orton with Broncos.
Or Jay Cutler with the Bears.
-Whoever thought Kyle Orton was a franchise QB for even a second? I know it wasn't me... And just curious how come some QB's get the o-line, consistency etc excuses, but Jay Cutler doesn't? He has one of the worst receiving cores in the league, little to no line, and he's his first year in the system, sound familiar? If that was Campbell he would be given a free pass.






1.5 Seasons is not continuity in anyones book.
Any honest person can see that the Redskins haven't had continuity and its one of the reasons why we struggle.
And the offense was more productive it just wasn't scoring points.
Part of the issue was correctly identified as a playcalling/coaching issue another was the OL issue another was the RB another is the production form the 2nd year receivers although this could be linked to the coaching issue.
-What I have highlighted in red, is your opinion, don't try to make it come off as fact I know how that irritates you.
-If we don't have continuity, why did I hear all off season from you and others that, "the second year in the offense" or Campbell's "second year with the same coach"... Yet he has almost regressed not progressed.





You know how many QBs know their offense well enough to be their own OC? Probably 2 Brady and Manning.
I read that Brady often runs the QB meetings and we all know that Manning is basically the OC with Tom Moore giving him suggestions.
*(And Tebow in Florida he sits in with the coaches during their gameplan meeting) ;)
-So basically you are just making this up? You just happen to think its those two guys? I personally think Brees could run an offense, as do I think Eli could, maybe not Big Ben, I think he is one of the few franchise QB's who relies more on his natural ability at the position


You know how many offensive systems Brady has been in?
1 the Erhardt-Perkins offense.
You know how many systems Manning has been in?
1 Tom Moore's system.
-You don't fix something that isn't broken... You know how many times Campbell has reached Peyton/Brady's offensive production from the first season starting? I don't even have to look at the stats to tell you its 0.. Campbell has been a piece of an extremely ineffective offense that is trying to find an identity, sticking with an identity that simply doesn't work. doesn't make you a better team.. You can stick a square peg into a rd hole as many times as you want, the result will be the same.

Like i said in my post a franchise QB is a good QB playing at a high level on a good team with good coaching, talent and continuity.


Has JC had any of these elements and continuity?
-No, but he has had a dominant run game and pro-bowl TE, which can really help the development of a young QB


Until the team improves we'll never have a "franchise" QB because a franchise QB isn't simply drafted; franchise QBs are products of a good franchise.
-How were the Colts Peyton's rookie year?


So yeah we can keep changing QBs and changing systems in the search for the messaih QB who can magically turn Batiste into a healthy Chris Samuels and Will Montgomery into a healthy Randy Thomas.
Then he'll make Portis 4 years younger with the running style he had in Denver.
Then he'll make Santana Moss be able to beat press coverage and get open against double teams and be able to make the tough catch like a true No.1
Then he fix the gameplanning and playcalling issue by writing the playbook himself then calling the plays.
Heck the messiah QB might even take control of the player personnel dept.
-Quit acting foolish.. Your making it appear that I don't understand there are problems on this team beyond the QB... Which clearly isn't true you can look through my posting history, I strongly support going o-line.

-What you can't seem to comprehend is that these franchise QB's elevate the play of their teammates.. Every year we hear about the new Mike Wallace or Austin Collie... Guys you've never even heard of that are all of a sudden break out... For some reason though these guys don't break out on teams like Carolina (solid offense but no QB), yet they consistently break out on teams with good QB's... Like who the F is Lance Moore? A buddy of mine from College of Charleston, played college ball with this guy before he transferred here, yet Brees is made Lance Moore look like a stud

-Or we can just do it your way, stick with the same system, same coaches, same QB... And cross our fingers all offseason that something has changed in our anemic offense.

[chaught76]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein



That is all.:)

Peace.
HTTR!

[kramdizzle]

why? we have hunter smith, the man who had a perfect QB rating.

[Taylor 36]

Well then we just need to sign a franchise QB... how hard can it be?

Mind naming the last franchise QB the redskins have had?

So, because finding a franchise QB is difficult, we should just not even try to look for one and just stick with an inconsistent, mediocre one instead???:doh:

[Koolblue13]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
!


Would you stop changing the color of your posts? It's fairly annoying and not really worth the time. kay?thanks.

[Koolblue13]

So, because finding a franchise QB is difficult, we should just not even try to look for one and just stick with an inconsistent, mediocre one instead???:doh:

How have we not done that? We tried to trade for a QB in the offseason. We tried to develop JC and have patience.

WTF do you want them to do? We have Colt being groomed. We are doing what we can.

[Geneva]

Sunday's results was no surprise to me, because last week was proof that the offense was lacking a running game which made everything else sort of breakdown in segments.

I was telling my fellow skins fans at the sports bar that Portis's concussion was unfortunate. But in retospect was the best thing that could happen to this offense. I've been saying all along that our young receivers and our OL is not as bad as it looks. Sure, we still need upgrades on the OL, but the results on the field was putrid and deceiving. With a little motivation, better play calling, confidence and younger players getting the opportunity, yesterday's results is long over due.


Further, add a few additional OL through FA or the draft and our offense would be much better, especially with a more precise QB. Add another RB and trade Portis or make him the primary backup or 3rd stringer. But this is the scenario that Zorn, Cerrato and Snyder face. Letting guys like Portis and a few others hit the road because it's long over due regarding the youth movement.

We always see other teams younger players exceed that we're drafted during the same time as our younger players and scratch our heads on why ours can't seem to excel during the same time frame. Easy, they play with teams that put them in better situations to succeed and let them play through the rough times. You cannot constantly yo-yo your younger players in and out of the lineup all the time. Especially when your counting on them to produce, learn and get better. So, in our case. Most of our younger players lose confidence because our coaches don't have confidence in them.


This was the same case with Betts and Cartwright IMO. I wasn't too sure on cartwright, but after last weeks game against the Falcons. I saw something in Cartwright that I wasn't seeing in Portis. A burst of quickness that Portis is now lacking and makes the OL look bad. Portis now relies on the lead blocker to do most of his dirty work to get an opening. And this is why IMO he and Sellers sort of fell apart. Portis can no longer find that hole if the lead blocker doesn't create one. But guys like Betts and Cartwright have that burst and can find the smallest opportunity and make the best of it. Portis will wait on the lead blocker and stumble up on the lead blocker and stumble on many occassions.


Also, coach Zorn as we all know was in over his head and now trying to take credit for the smallest plays that work. Ok maybe, but I'm not buying it. Like I've said before I had no problem with the bingo caller making the calls since Zorn couldn't put our players in positions to make plays and score. Especially our younger players. But now, what we're witnessing is a sort of youth movement by default from injuries. Our FO was depending too much on some of our veteran players and Zorn had no choice but to play them for his job sake. We we're too deep in to depend on our younger players because the trust factor just wasn't there.


And regarding the play calling again. I didn't care if our play caller was working at Mcdonalds before he got here. The resume that Sherm presented was to impresive to over look oppose to what we we're already seeing. Constantly trying to break the 10 point mark against some of the most putrid teams in the league.


Anyhow, here's to our new found redemption that was presented by our new play caller, injuries and the youth movement by default that was long over due. So, next year give me an upgrade at QB, a couple of young stud OL and another RB. Also, I wouldn't mind keeping Zorn depending on how the rest of the season goes. But if Zorn wants to get his play calling duties back next year, no thank you.

[REDALERT]

People, my intial post about needing a franchise QB was obvious on Sunday. Jason Cambell can only exceed with a descent run game and that's barely. As we all see even when the run games is in full affect, Campbell still leaves to many big play opportunities on the field.



Yes! like many of you have said, Jason is a game manager but not a game general. Even when Sherm was OC for the packers when Brett was QB, during practices he never wanted the receivers to let the ball hit the ground. Also, sherm stated that it's good to be an efficient QB, but if you can't make the big play/throw it means nothing and I totally agree with this.



It's easy to manage a game and try not to make mistakes. But if you can't thouroughly see the entire field and constantly miss opportunities for big plays you won't get far. See the QB that won the Super Bowl for the Bucs Dilfer. Dilfer was the same way to a certain extent and we saw how far that got him as a starting QB. Big players make big plays and that's including QB's and they get paid to do just that.


So, that's my reasoning for us needing a franchise QB. With a descent defense, OL, RB, WR's and a coach. You cannot have your QB's leaving big plays constantly on the field during games. And this is nothing new with Jason, this is a constant problem. Further, Jason doesn't know how to read a defense or audible properly. People, when you see QB's audible during the heat of the game, sometimes it's a beautiful thing to watch. But for the life of me Campbell always seems to audible right into the opposing denfenses hand. Example, during the 4th and 1 play during the Broncos game. I'm quite sure Campbell called an audible and the audible had Betts run the sweep toward the right. Now! why the hell would you call a sweep and the sweep was getting stuffed all game. Not only that, but all year long. It's forth and 1 and you stick with running up the gut or atleast audible to a QB sneak.


So, all i'm saying is the offense with a run game would be a helluva lot better with a QB that's precise, can read a defense, can audible and see the entire field on many occassions.

[Taylor 36]

So, if you are for giving Colt a shot....I am cool with that. But doesn't he need to win that #2 before jumping to #1?

Like JC? Oh, wait......:doh:

[Taylor 36]

How have we not done that? We tried to trade for a QB in the offseason. We tried to develop JC and have patience.

WTF do you want them to do? We have Colt being groomed. We are doing what we can.
You're missing my point. I'm saying that we should NOT just stick with JC. I'm all for giving Colt a shot. He's already under contract for next year, we aren't sure what we have in him yet, and we could use this offseason focussing primarily on the o-line, RB, and our secondary since that seems to now be falling apart. If we drafted a QB that our new GM and HC saw great promise in, great. But, sticking with JC is futile. The point that we tried to trade him and he was turned down for Kyle Orton speaks volumes.

[Mahons21]

why? we have hunter smith, the man who had a perfect QB rating.

-Gotta love hunter the punter.. I watch NFL sunday with a group of buddies, none of which are Redskins fans, but we all happened to be watching the game for both Hunter Smith's TD's... Its the on-going joke that I should buy his jersey

[thedevilhimself]

Man i love your sig ... the Packers have played an beaten 2 really inconsistant teams - Dallas and the Bears on bad days, the lions the rams and the browns... that really isnt better or tougher competition ... and he has decent WRs to throw at and an OL that isn't in the 5th orientation since week 1 .... and his pocket awareness is and was and is terrible, he often runs into defenders which makes his sack total so high ...

[Mahons21]

Man i love your sig ... the Packers have played an beaten 2 really inconsistant teams - Dallas and the Bears on bad days, the lions the rams and the browns... that really isnt better or tougher competition ... and he has decent WRs to throw at and an OL that isn't in the 5th orientation since week 1 .... and his pocket awareness is and was and is terrible, he often runs into defenders which makes his sack total so high ...

-I agree the competition hasn't been much tougher than Campbell's but it has been tougher, Campbell had one of the easiest starting schedules I've ever seen

-Good WR's? Maybe you can make a case for Driver, but Jennings has certainly dropped off, and I've never even heard of this Jones guy before until he started breaking away for bombs.

-His o-line is most certainly on there 4th if not 5th orientation, maybe you don't know much about the Packers but its hard to dispute the facts, they've had to deal with injuries etc and it has caused them to shuffle there line quite frequently.

-I would necessarily say he has horrible pocket presence either, yes it needs to be worked on but he doesn't look as clueless as Campbell, he at least steps up... With that being said, Aaron Rodgers does hold on to the ball entirely too long and that does increase his sack total.. But guys like Rodgers and Big Ben who tend to hold on to the ball really long, also tend to make big plays out of broken plays by holding on to the ball and not just throwing it away.

[Geneva]

Agree with what you have posted. Time and injuries make Portis extra bagage. We may get a 5th or 6th round pick for him but I would not count on much more. JC should also be history next season. Again a low round draft pick is the most we will receive. He also is a free agent and they may just let him leave. I don't think I would keep Zorn as you stated. Think he was in way over his head. The coach will be changed. I have a guess on who it will be but like most of you it's just a guess. After they picked a coach that had not even been a OC, you never can tell what they will do next ???? Wish we had a GM......

[MDstar08]

I'm not in disagreement with you here because I think outside of Bradford, all the other QB candidates are not sure things (even Bradford may not pan out) and a top notch OL prospects are almost always a safer bet type pick. Still, we know how this FO salivates over the ***star*** player. If Tebow is on the board I can see Snyder pulling the trigger (and I think that would be a terrible choice).

True, true...I have thought about Tebow but really I dont have that much faith that he's gunna do that much. Like its a big name that is liek a Matthew Stafford and he has gotten hurt.

[skinsdude]

But at this point -- I'm at a loss to understand why Campbell still has such fervent supporters. What exactly does Campbell do that is superior to other NFL QBs? What specifically does he do that well?

Frankly, I just don't see anything he does well, beyond playing it safe. Rather than quoting %'s and 'safe' stats -- what do JC-supporters claim that Campbell does really well? Short passes? Reading defenses? Accurate long-bombs? Coming through in the clutch? Pocket-presence? ...What?

He doesn't do any of the things that you mentioned very well. As a matter of fact he does most of those things rather poorly. The only thing that he does occasionally is make a play with his feet. That's about it.

[darrelgreenie]

-You said "bad teams," not bad offenses. And the Saints last year certainly weren't anything phenomenal, nor have the Texans been this year, even though there QB was leading in TD's a couple of weeks ago.

Right and i didn't say the Saints and the Texans were bad teams YOU said mentioned them as bad teams.


-16-0, to 11-5, yaa thats not a drop off in performance at all... Just a quick 5 game swing.

Okay after going 16-0 anything else is going to be a drop off.
But even you have to admit that going 11-5 with a QB that has never thrown a starter in college let alone the pros is a testament to how good the Patriots are as a TEAM.




-Whoever thought Kyle Orton was a franchise QB for even a second? I know it wasn't me... And just curious how come some QB's get the o-line, consistency etc excuses, but Jay Cutler doesn't? He has one of the worst receiving cores in the league, little to no line, and he's his first year in the system, sound familiar? If that was Campbell he would be given a free pass.

I didn't say that Orton was a franchise QB nor did i say that Cutler wasn't.
What i'm pointing out is the difference the the TEAM makes in the performance of the QB.

If you're honest you have to notice the difference in Cutler/Orton performance and stats since they've switched teams no?



-What I have highlighted in red, is your opinion, don't try to make it come off as fact I know how that irritates you.
-If we don't have continuity, why did I hear all off season from you and others that, "the second year in the offense" or Campbell's "second year with the same coach"... Yet he has almost regressed not progressed.


I don't think its my opinion that the coaching/playcalling was one of the reason for the offenses lack of scoring success.
Again i think if you're honest with your assessment of the team i think you can see that the coaching/playcalling was in fact one of the reasons for the lack of scoring.

The same goes for the RB position and production on offense if you take an honest look at the RB i think you can see that for whatever reason maybe injury maybe lack of practice but Betts and Rock have been running HARDER then Portis.


You just happen to think its those two guys? I personally think Brees could run an offense, as do I think Eli could, maybe not Big Ben, I think he is one of the few franchise QB's who relies more on his natural ability at the position

I gave the reason why i think that out of all the QBs in the NFL that Brady and Manning could be their own OCs.


I read that Brady often runs the QB meetings and we all know that Manning is basically the OC with Tom Moore giving him suggestions.

If you didn't know, Moore gives Peyton 3 plays and Peyton puts them in the best play based on the defense.

Either way this has no bearing on the discussion at hand.
I was responding to YOUR opinion that:
Franchise QB's are players that have such a knowledge and instinct of the game, that they virtually could be their own o-coordinator..



-You don't fix something that isn't broken... You know how many times Campbell has reached Peyton/Brady's offensive production from the first season starting? I don't even have to look at the stats to tell you its 0.. Campbell has been a piece of an extremely ineffective offense that is trying to find an identity, sticking with an identity that simply doesn't work. doesn't make you a better team.. You can stick a square peg into a rd hole as many times as you want, the result will be the same.


Now your just changing the subject form continuity to a JC vs Manning comparison.
Which is absurd because Manning is HOF QB and if you use Manning as a measuring stick for performance of course other QBs will pale in comparison.

I asked you if JC had these elements good coaching, talent and continuity.

Your answer was:


-No, but he has had a dominant run game and pro-bowl TE, which can really help the development of a young QB

Campbell had a dominant running game for 1/2 a season last year and you're right Cooley is a pro-bowl TE, but having a sometimes effective running game, a suspect OL, and on the whole average to below average talent, and most importantly no continuity in coaching staff/philosophy/playcalling aren't the elements conducive to having a "franchise" QB.


-How were the Colts Peyton's rookie year?

I believe they were 3-13.


-What you can't seem to comprehend is that these franchise QB's elevate the play of their teammates..

What you don't seem to comprehend is that like Joe Theisman said 'the QB is the most dependent person on the football field'


-Or we can just do it your way, stick with the same system, same coaches, same QB... And cross our fingers all offseason that something has changed in our anemic offense.

Is that what i said?
Don't create yet another straw man.

[darrelgreenie]

-Good WR's? Maybe you can make a case for Driver, but Jennings has certainly dropped off, and I've never even heard of this Jones guy before until he started breaking away for bombs.

I'm a big Brett Favre fan and have followed the Packers closely for awhile.
James Jones was part of the reason behind Favre resurgence in 2007 when he had 47 catches.

Greg Jennings may be having a bad year according to you but he's still putting up numbers equal or better then Tana and better numbers then Tana did last year too.

Donald Driver is better then ARE i think we can all agree there no?

Then you got James Jones and Jordy Nelson who are better then Kelly and Thomas.

I think its pretty clear that the Packer have a better receiving corps.


-His o-line is most certainly on there 4th if not 5th orientation, maybe you don't know much about the Packers but its hard to dispute the facts, they've had to deal with injuries etc and it has caused them to shuffle there line quite frequently.

I actually listed the differences between their OL vs our OL in another post.
But, looking at the changes and quality of the players stepping up to replace the ones that went down or were benched we've had more change then the Packers.

But, no doubt both of our OL aren't very good.
*(Although i like what Levi Jones did last game and hope it wasn't a mirage)