PFT: Bills' head start could force Snyder's hand

[Rdskns2000]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/19/bills-head-start-could-force-snyders-hand/


It will be interesting.

[DonMagicJuan]

....things are getting very interesting!.....

[DMVSkins]

I thought no respectable coaches wanted to come here with the current FO structure

[PorkSkins]

When you have a tough choice to make sometimes you trust your first instinct. How do we know that the new coach may already be in place, waiting? I don't think Snyder is sweating any of this.

[TheGreatBuzz]

How do we know that the new coach may already be in place, waiting?

You mean like an offensive consultant?:doh:

God, I could see that being just the type of dumb move for this organization to make.

:dallasuck

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

When you have a tough choice to make sometimes you trust your first instinct. How do we know that the new coach may already be in place, waiting? I don't think Snyder is sweating any of this.


if thats true and the new coach is already in place, who could it be?

[BAFGA]

You mean like an offensive consultant?:doh:

God, I could see that being just the type of dumb move for this organization to make.



I would hope the fanbase would be savvy enough to see that as more of the same BS we've been dealing with for the last 10 years. Oh, wait......:doh:

[TheGreatBuzz]

I would hope the fanbase would be savvy enough to see that as more of the same BS we've been dealing with for the last 10 years. Oh, wait......:doh:

I think the fanbase would see through it...But that doesn't mean Darth Snyder won't do it.
:dallasuck

[Horatio]

The only reason we have Zorn is because he was the only guy who would take the job, after Danny botched every other interview and canned Greggggg Williams after interviewing him six times.

Shanny, Holmgren, Gruden, and Cowher are off the table. We'll probably get stuck with Blache or Jim Fassel next year.

[Diss]

If this is true, then fans and Snyder are just falling into the same old trap: Bring in the "big name" to fix everything. I hope Shanny falls to someone else.

What we need to do is hire a REAL GM first and let HIM choose the next coach, preferably someone who is not a "big name" mercenary for hire. I want a guy who will start his career as a Redskin and forever be known as a Redskin.

Personally, who I REALLY want is Russ Grimm. I just don't get why we never hear anything about him as a potential candidate. In fact, we rarely hear anything about him AT ALL, positive OR negative, as far as his coaching abilities.

In a time when our O-Line is the main reason for our failures, what better symbolism than to bring back the best Hog in history to lead this team.

But to the topic at hand: Go, Bills. Get that Shanny. Get him now.

[BAFGA]

The only reason we have Zorn is because he was the only guy who would take the job, after Danny botched every other interview and canned Greggggg Williams after interviewing him six times.

Shanny, Holmgren, Gruden, and Cowher are off the table. We'll probably get stuck with Blache or Jim Fassel next year.

Fassel, Dennis Green, Jim Haslett (who might end up in BUffalo), and Ted COttrell. Those are the most likely candidates to end up here in D.C. THey're all head coaches in the UFL, and they are hungry to get back into the league. They are also the only ones who would put up with Snyderatto.

[ntotoro]

if thats true and the new coach is already in place, who could it be?

Antwaan Rundelell!!!!11

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Antwaan Rundelell!!!!11


ol shlipery balls rundelel

i doubt snyder has a coach or GM in place. hes probably just dreading the day hes forced to fire vinny. he has to know that it needs to be done, he just cant bring himself to do it. its like putting your old and sick family dog to sleep. you know you have to do it but its the hardest thing to bring yourself to do.

[Riggo#44]

Fassel, Dennis Green, Jim Haslett (who might end up in BUffalo), and Ted COttrell. Those are the most likely candidates to end up here in D.C. THey're all head coaches in the UFL, and they are hungry to get back into the league. They are also the only ones who would put up with Snyderatto.

Unfortunately, you might be right. I am getting more and more the feeling that it's going to be another long off-season of C. Montgomery Snyder and Waylon Cerrato running the show...

[TheGreatBuzz]

he has to know that it needs to be done, he just cant bring himself to do it. its like putting your old and sick family dog to sleep. you know you have to do it but its the hardest thing to bring yourself to do.

I think that is a great analogy...if Darth Snyder is having trouble bringing himself to do, i'll take Vinny out back and shoot him for him. Free of charge!
:dallasuck

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I think that is a great analogy...if Darth Snyder is having trouble bringing himself to do, i'll take Vinny out back and shoot him for him. Free of charge!
:dallasuck


old "vinny" yeller. lol

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Getting the big-name hybrid GM/head coach is my clear-cut second option at this point. It'd be better than Vinny and a powerless coach...by a lot.

But I'd still love to see it done the right way and for the long-term. Shanahan, Holmgren, and even Cowher won't be here in 10 years. If they are both GM and head coach...what happens when they leave? The structure will then need to change once again.

I'd love to see a true GM brought in and given full control. I'd love that person to hire his entire front office staff including several potential successors. Then, I'd want to see that staff hire a head coach and help that coach fill out the staff and the roster.

[Horatio]

Personally, who I REALLY want is Russ Grimm. I just don't get why we never hear anything about him as a potential candidate. In fact, we rarely hear anything about him AT ALL, positive OR negative, as far as his coaching abilities.



I would urge caution with wishing for Grimm. The fact that no one else has ever hired him for head coach, despite several interviews, says something.

Also, going down memory lane to pick a coach is usually a recipe for disaster. The Packers had Bart Starr and Forrest Gregg as coaches years back, and neither one had any success. Gibbs II was a joke here.

I would go the Steelers route: hire a young, hungry guy who is ready to become a coach, no matter what team he coaches. Hell, the Steelers hired Chuck Noll even though he played his entire career for the Browns.

Gibbs II was old, Grimm is old. Zorn is old. This team needs to go young.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i couldnt handle hiring another redskins legend. just more reason to excuse any failures or shortcomings he has due to the fact that he was a hog.

no more ex skins plz.

[bird_1972]

I'm still in favor of keeping the heat on Snyder.

One win over Denver and he probably thinks the fans have forgotten that his management of this team has been a complete failure over the 10 years he's been here.

He NEEDS to fire Cerratto.
He NEEDS to get his ass out of the way and shut the hell up.
He NEEDS to hire a real, respected GM (not another puppet) who will conduct the search for the HC
He NEEDS to let the HC do his job and not interfere with player related matters

I ain't holding my breath.

[Riggo#44]

I'm still in favor of keeping the heat on Snyder.

One win over Denver and he probably thinks the fans have forgotten that his management of this team has been a complete failure over the 10 years he's been here.

He NEEDS to fire Cerratto.
He NEEDS to get his ass out of the way and shut the hell up.
He NEEDS to hire a real, respected GM (not another puppet) who will conduct the search for the HC
He NEEDS to let the HC do his job and not interfere with player related matters

I ain't holding my breath.

That's my fear: we cobble together a couple more wins, finish 5-11, 6-10 and Vinny stays.

[FunBunch7]

I wouldn't mind "They are who we thought they were!" He has fire!

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That's my fear: we cobble together a couple more wins, finish 5-11, 6-10 and Vinny stays.


stop dude. thats not even funny to think about.

5-11 i think vinny goes. but 6-10 i worry. i reeeeally worry.

[FunBunch7]

Grimm Head Coach
Theismann QB Coach
D Green DB Coach
Monk WR Coach
B-Mitch Special Teams Coach

[HailGreen28]

If the Skins are looking a coach now, then once again Danny and Vinny are working STUPIDLY.

Danny should work on hiring a GM now. Have a good GM in place by season's end at the latest.

Then this offseason, there will be a lot of coordinators to choose from, who aren't available now. The GM picks a highly regarded coordinator, which will be a lot easier since Danny demonstrated change by replacing Vinny with a real GM.

Then things may be rocky at first, but over time Danny can make MORE money (with a winning team) than he could with Vinny.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[Riggo#44]

stop dude. thats not even funny to think about.

5-11 i think vinny goes. but 6-10 i worry. i reeeeally worry.

6-10 I worry too...he can blame the injuries, Zorn, anyone but himself. He would be able to convince Snyder we're one player away...still...

[Brianbien83]

I hope the Bills do land Shanahan. He was lucky to have John Elway and a studly Terrell Davis in the late 90's. I don't think his success was indicative of his talent.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who the coach is unless the system fits the players. I don't care if that means bringing in new players to fit a system, or creating the system based on the players. A team cannot find success, however, when trying to make players fit a system that they don't.

[ECU-ALUM]

stop dude. thats not even funny to think about.

5-11 i think vinny goes. but 6-10 i worry. i reeeeally worry.

I am worried that Vinny is back next year regardless...he is the perfect stooge for Snyder. He and Snyder are convinced that everything is Zorn's fault (I read in a chat transcript about 2 weeks ago they are telling everyone that this all Zorn's fault).

I fully expect before the Charger game it will be announced that Vinny has either a contract extension or he has a new deal.

I have the same feeling that I used to get when a Norv team would be up by 4 with 1:30 left in the game and we had to rely on the Defense to make a stop...and we all know how that usually worked out.

[Dick Edds]

I wouldn't mind "They are who we thought they were!" He has fire!

same here ... at least he has HC experience ... and experience with Sherm Lewis as his OC.

I think he is a good coach. The downside is ... that means Vinny most likely stays.

[Riggo#44]

I fully expect before the Charger game it will be announced that Vinny has either a contract extension or he has a new deal.

I think you'd see an uproar from the fan base like no one has ever seen before...The term "blackout" comes to mind next year...

[Riggo#44]

same here ... at least he has HC experience ... and experience with Sherm Lewis as his OC.

I think he is a good coach. The downside is ... that means Vinny most likely stays.

Another retread. No thanks!

This is why we need a GM who knows WTF they are doing...

[bird_1972]

That's my fear: we cobble together a couple more wins, finish 5-11, 6-10 and Vinny stays.

People renew their season tickets excited because we showed "flashes" in the season; big FA signing around January; Vinny continues to ignore the O-line

Wash, rinse, repeat

[Hitman#21]

I hope the Bills do land Shanahan. He was lucky to have John Elway and a studly Terrell Davis in the late 90's. I don't think his success was indicative of his talent.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who the coach is unless the system fits the players. I don't care if that means bringing in new players to fit a system, or creating the system based on the players. A team cannot find success, however, when trying to make players fit a system that they don't.
Shanahan is a great offense mind, theres no getting around that. The problem i have with him is he neglected Defense when he was a GM over in Denver, so that bothers me if he tries to bring in some of his guys for defense.

[ECU-ALUM]

I think you'd see an uproar from the fan base like no one has ever seen before...The term "blackout" comes to mind next year...

Agreed...but I think Snyder's ego is too big to allow someone to come in here and tell him that he is doing it wrong.

[bird_1972]

Shanahan is a great offense mind, theres no getting around that. The problem i have with him is he neglected Defense when he was a GM over in Denver, so that bothers me if he tries to bring in some of his guys for defense.
I don't want Shanahan or any of those other "name" coaches to coach our team.

Let a proven coordinator picked by a smart GM take the helm. Let's blow this thing up and purge the roster of bloated contracts that aren't producing (ie, Portis, ARE).

Time to rebuild from the foundation up.

[Hitman#21]

Agreed...but I think Snyder's ego is too big to allow someone to come in here and tell him that he is doing it wrong.
Do you also think his ego is too big to apologize? how about realize what he did was wrong with banning signs then changing policy a couple of weeks later? Someone with a "Big Ego" wouldnt do any of that.

[bird_1972]

Agreed...but I think Snyder's ego is too big to allow someone to come in here and tell him that he is doing it wrong.

Not only that, but he'll do something in the offseason to get everyone excited.

The sheep have very short memories.

[bird_1972]

Do you also think his ego is too big to apologize? how about realize what he did was wrong with banning signs then changing policy a couple of weeks later? Someone with a "Big Ego" wouldnt do any of that.

He would if he thought he'd lose money if he didn't do it.

[Riggo#44]

Agreed...but I think Snyder's ego is too big to allow someone to come in here and tell him that he is doing it wrong.


He needs to see it for himself in empty seats and out-of-business Redskins stores in malls...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Not only that, but he'll do something in the offseason to get everyone excited.

The sheep have very short memories.


the last sentence is so true. the local media and radio were destroying us at 2-6, and we beat a broncos team in the 2nd half when their QB goes out, and all the sudden its sunshine and rainbows around here again. its like everyone forgot what our record was.

there isnt a shred of doubt in my mind that if we go 6-10 people will be saying how we "turned it around" down the stretch.

[bird_1972]

the last sentence is so true. the local media and radio were destroying us at 2-6, and we beat a broncos team in the 2nd half when their QB goes out, and all the sudden its sunshine and rainbows around here again. its like everyone forgot what our record was.

there isnt a shred of doubt in my mind that if we go 6-10 people will be saying how we "turned it around" down the stretch.

That is why I still plan on moving forward with "Phase 3" in some fashion.

We need to keep the heat on Snyder until he changes wholesale. Not just piecemeal. We need sweeping, not incremental, change.

[addicted]

I wouldn't bet on it. Snyder's gonna do what ever he wants to. This is his team and he's kept his friends on the staff long after they looked like bad. My guess is two more wins this year and the whole crews coming back next year - Vinny, Zorn, and Campbell.

[Riggo#44]

the last sentence is so true. the local media and radio were destroying us at 2-6, and we beat a broncos team in the 2nd half when their QB goes out, and all the sudden its sunshine and rainbows around here again. its like everyone forgot what our record was.

there isnt a shred of doubt in my mind that if we go 6-10 people will be saying how we "turned it around" down the stretch.

:puke:

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

[bird_1972]

I wouldn't bet on it. Snyder's gonna do what ever he wants to. This is his team and he's kept his friends on the staff long after they looked like bad. My guess is two more wins this year and the whole crews coming back next year - Vinny, Zorn, and Campbell.

Zorn won't be back under any circumstances.

[BAFGA]

Zorn won't be back under any circumstances.

I tend to agree, but we will get someone like Zorn to take his place; a clueless position coach or a retread from the UFL.

[Geneva]

If you could take your pick would you go to the Bills or the Redskins. I think this one is in the bag if we decide to change coaches. However, I would like Bill C..

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I wouldn't bet on it. Snyder's gonna do what ever he wants to. This is his team and he's kept his friends on the staff long after they looked like bad. My guess is two more wins this year and the whole crews coming back next year - Vinny, Zorn, and Campbell.


zorn and campbell will both be gone, but vinny im not so sure about. dan is just truly in love with the guy.

[ECU-ALUM]

Do you also think his ego is too big to apologize? how about realize what he did was wrong with banning signs then changing policy a couple of weeks later? Someone with a "Big Ego" wouldnt do any of that.

Those were public relations moves...for the moment...he has a fall-guy in place in Zorn...he and Vinny have told people that what is going is on Zorn. It's also no secret had the Washington Post been there the apology would've probably never happen. Very nice about the sign ban...to announce it 2 hours before kick-off.

Has he taken personal responsiblity for any of this? It's all "we"...his and Vinny's fingerprints all over this franchise...they are the only constant over these years. If he wants credit for fixing a great meal then he damn well better be ready to say, "I burned the chicken! It happened on my watch!"

Anyone can say whatever they want about Coach Gibbs however when something went wrong he always took the responsiblity...he took the bullet...he didn't have someone else do it for him.

I do not trust Dan & Vinny their past record speak for itself. Now have they done somethings right...yes I will grant that...but the question is...have they done more things right than wrong?

[Jim Bob]

My favorite part of the PFT report on the Bills forcing Snyder's hand is that at the end of the report that it is a real long shot that the Bills will pay the freight to land Shanahan.

So, if they won't pay the freight, how is this going to force Snyder to do anything?

[ECU-ALUM]

My favorite part of the PFT report on the Bills forcing Snyder's hand is that at the end of the report that it is a real long shot that the Bills will pay the freight to land Shanahan.

So, if they won't pay the freight, how is this going to force Snyder to do anything?

It's called "stirring the pot"...throwing out a line and seeing if they get any bites on it.

The only person I see being able to compete with Snyder for Shanahan (if Snyder wants him) is JJ. That is the one person I would worry about taking him from Snyder (again if that is who Snyder wants)

[grantarchy]

I'm still in favor of keeping the heat on Snyder.

One win over Denver and he probably thinks the fans have forgotten that his management of this team has been a complete failure over the 10 years he's been here.

Amazingly enough it seems like some fans have already forgotten. Now we might even win the division!

[Jim Bob]

It's called "stirring the pot"...throwing out a line and seeing if they get any bites on it.

The only person I see being able to compete with Snyder for Shanahan (if Snyder wants him) is JJ. That is the one person I would worry about taking him from Snyder (again if that is who Snyder wants)

Or they are assuming that Dan is quick to hit the panic button.

And given Dan's track record, that may not be a bad assumption!

[ECU-ALUM]

Or they are assuming that Dan is quick to hit the panic button.

And given Dan's track record, that may not be a bad assumption!

Nailed it!

[hailskins11]

It's called "stirring the pot"...throwing out a line and seeing if they get any bites on it.

The only person I see being able to compete with Snyder for Shanahan (if Snyder wants him) is JJ. That is the one person I would worry about taking him from Snyder (again if that is who Snyder wants)

we have a bingo!

The only team Snydster needs to beat is the pukes

[Rdskns2000]

I would urge caution with wishing for Grimm. The fact that no one else has ever hired him for head coach, despite several interviews, says something.

Also, going down memory lane to pick a coach is usually a recipe for disaster. The Packers had Bart Starr and Forrest Gregg as coaches years back, and neither one had any success. Gibbs II was a joke here.

I would go the Steelers route: hire a young, hungry guy who is ready to become a coach, no matter what team he coaches. Hell, the Steelers hired Chuck Noll even though he played his entire career for the Browns.

Gibbs II was old, Grimm is old. Zorn is old. This team needs to go young.

The rumor is Grimm had the Steelers job but the commissioner reminded Rooney of his own rule.

Gibbs 2 wasn't a joke. He wasn't as successful as we wish but 2 playoff appearances in 4 years vs 1 playoff appearance in 11 years before he came back; that isn't a joke.

Dan Snyder isn't going to go the young route. The big name is the only thing Dan will respect and after a no-name in Zorn; last thing he will do is hire an up and comer.

[HigSkin]

Grimm Head Coach
Theismann QB Coach
D Green DB Coach
Monk WR Coach
B-Mitch Special Teams Coach

:hysterical: You forgot Doc Walker - TE Coach

[hail2skins]

the last sentence is so true. the local media and radio were destroying us at 2-6, and we beat a broncos team in the 2nd half when their QB goes out, and all the sudden its sunshine and rainbows around here again. its like everyone forgot what our record was.

there isnt a shred of doubt in my mind that if we go 6-10 people will be saying how we "turned it around" down the stretch.

Lenny P mentioned within the past few months that Shanny and Vinny are tight so even if we land him doesn't mean that Cerrato will be kicked out.

Yeah, that 6-10 mark is dangerous, especially if one of the wins is against Dallas at FedEx. Winning that game will make people gloss over a season of failure.

If Snyder doesn't bring in a GM next year would be the perfect year to boycott him. You know with the uncapped year he'll probably spend a boatload dumping old salaries and bringing in new ones. The problem is that two of our home games will be against the Colts and Vikings, teams that have arguably the two biggest draws at QB in the league (of course, supposing Favre doesn't pull his drama queen act again). Unfortunately, that alone will get people to renew.

[cphil006]

I thought no respectable coaches wanted to come here with the current FO structure

bingo... The entire org needs to be restructured... Danny needs to hire a team president to structure this organization so that it is condusive to winning...

Followed by an excellent GM... one that can get the best value for a trade... best value for a player... and evaluate talent...

[ScottAH87]

thats great and all, but really just get it right. i like all of you don't really care who it is, just get it right. were too great of a team/fanbase for this!JUST MAKE SOMETHING WORK DANNY, NOW!!!!!!!

[Wyvern]

I hope we steer clear of Shanahan.

Let's work on finding a real GM. If we dump Zorn, let the GM decide who he wants to invest a 5 year contract in. And then give the new coaching staff at least 3 years to show they're moving the franchise in the right direction.

No 'star' head coach will be excited to come here, unless we improve the situation with the owner, the FO, and the quarterback.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I thought no respectable coaches wanted to come here with the current FO structure
QFT.

Call me when this article is about the race to hire a new GM.

[HailSkins83]

Wasnt it reported that Danny already approached Shanahan and he said he would not come in Mid-Season???

If he wont come here mid-season than why would he go to the bills?

Shanahan is no dummy, he knows that there will be a bidding war at the end of the season for him, he isnt going to jump at the first job opening he is offered...

BTW I would rather take Cower or Gruden( hopig Gruden has a clause in his ESPN contract for coaching)

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Lenny P mentioned within the past few months that Shanny and Vinny are tight so even if we land him doesn't mean that Cerrato will be kicked out.

Yeah, that 6-10 mark is dangerous, especially if one of the wins is against Dallas at FedEx. Winning that game will make people gloss over a season of failure.

If Snyder doesn't bring in a GM next year would be the perfect year to boycott him. You know with the uncapped year he'll probably spend a boatload dumping old salaries and bringing in new ones. The problem is that two of our home games will be against the Colts and Vikings, teams that have arguably the two biggest draws at QB in the league (of course, supposing Favre doesn't pull his drama queen act again). Unfortunately, that alone will get people to renew.


good points, i didnt know our schedule for next year, and that is dangerous.

and agreed about the cowboys. this fanbase is so brainwashed with "dallas week" that i bet if we beat them at fedex people would completely gloss over our entire season with "......but we still beat dallas!!" kinda stuff.

i want phase III of bufords thing to start so i can send santa a card asking for a new GM.

[RWJ]

This team beat a Denver team that started like Washington last year and I think will finish somewhat like they did. I think at best we finish the season at 4-12 or maybe 5-11. Either way a new regime will be in here next year.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

This team beat a Denver team that started like Washington last year and I think will finish somewhat like they did. I think at best we finish the season at 4-12 or maybe 5-11. Either way a new regime will be in here next year.


i hope youre right. i guess the most frustrating thing right now is the fact that were kinda "in limbo". we dont know about the cap, we dont know if danny is committed to vinny, we dont know a lot of stuff, and were 3-6. so were a losing club with tons of question marks and no sense of direction right now.

[CG]

The only reason we have Zorn is because he was the only guy who would take the job, after Danny botched every other interview and canned Greggggg Williams after interviewing him six times.

Shanny, Holmgren, Gruden, and Cowher are off the table. We'll probably get stuck with Blache or Jim Fassel next year.

Pretty much. Except nix Blache from the candidates. I think the dude's all but retired.

I don't think there's any way they go with an internal hire anyway just from a PR standpoint.

[RTL28]

Unfortunately, you might be right. I am getting more and more the feeling that it's going to be another long off-season of C. Montgomery Snyder and Waylon Cerrato running the show...
Please don't use Waylon's name in vain!

[addicted]

Zorn won't be back under any circumstances.

Sure hope not but if we win a couple of these games the possibility is certainily there he would return. You don't see Zorn walking away from the money in the offseason do you? I'd think Zorn's here until he's fired. He wants the money

[addicted]

zorn and campbell will both be gone, but vinny im not so sure about. dan is just truly in love with the guy.

If we win a few of these games I can see us sticking with these guys. Sorry man but I just don't trust Snyder at all. He's not going to do what's right for the club and will do things his way. This is his team. Was firing the GM who just won Executive of the year in his first year as owner the right thing to do? Was firing a head coach who won 8 out of the last 11 games the right thing to do? Was rehiring Vinny the right thing for the team to do? I see him doing what ever the hell he wants to do. If he can't swing a deal for a good coach I can see him giving Zorn one more season as well. Jason is a restricted FA meaning he's still on the hook for another year. If we do what some people on the forum here want and don't draft a QB with our number one pick there isn't many options in FA that we could use as QB. I don't think it's a done deal for either of these men yet. I'd put the odds on us keeping them both today at 50%, and with each win I'd bump it up 5 to 10%,