J. Reid: Redskins Expected to Retain Campbell

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/redskins-coaches-head-for-seni.html?wprss=redskinsinsider

Although no hard news on the subject, Reid knows more about what's going on than any of us do.

[JaimeDeCurry]

This isn't really a surprise. It just makes sense, especially going into an uncapped year. All the rookie QBs coming out of college have major question marks, the team needs a major overhaul in several areas, the free agent pool will probably be severely limited in an uncapped year, Campbell can be retained for pennies on the dollar for a starting QB's salary, etc. There's just no logical reason to get rid of Campbell this year.

[Jeff in D.C.]

Well the JC haters are throwing furniture in their houses right now.

[bushwack]

It's the right move to do for this upcoming season, it will be a rebuilding year behind an o-line that will still be bad. No need to put the rookie QB behind that line until it's rebuilt, let Campbell take the helm again and allow Shanahan's hand picked QB to learn his system and how everything operates in the NFL, and then the rookie QB will be the starter week 1 in '11.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Well the JC haters are throwing furniture in their houses right now.

Not really. One year tender, draft a rookie, start Campbell until rookie is ready, dump Campbell.

Now if we sign Campbell to a 5 year deal and don't take a QB in the draft, I'll be pissed.

[JaimeDeCurry]

Not really. One year tender, draft a rookie, start Campbell until rookie is ready, dump Campbell.

Now if we sign Campbell to a 5 year deal and don't take a QB in the draft, I'll be pissed.


What if we retain Campbell as a RFA and don't draft a QB?

[Newera]

Look, if we draft a quarterback early. Jason is just baby sitting. You tender him because you don't want to just let him walk for free. It's common sense.

[Jumbo]

To all concerned: making one-line posts identifying any well-established POV on any debatable topic (i.e. Jason Campbell) as that of a "hater" or "homer" does nothing to intelligently advance a conversation. It does fit as a violation of forum rules on trolling or spam per moderator discretion.

Since this has become an annoying plague adding to the white-noise, keep that in mind.

If you don't have anything more to say then something like "well the homers/haters ought to be happy/sad" then don't post (see aforementioned rules).

[LeftCoast Skinz FAN]

I think Campbell can do well in Shanahan's offensive scheme. As long as we can get a good running game going I don't see why Campbell can't have a really good year.

Let's just hope our OL can handle the Zone Blocking Scheme. ;)

[SonnyandSam]

What if we retain Campbell as a RFA and don't draft a QB?
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Courtneylynn_x3/riot.jpg

['Skins_&_'Stons]

I really hope we do. If we can get Okung in the first round to go along with various OLine talent later in the draft, I think JC will SHOCK the world (and 90% of ES) next year.

[DRSmith]

Well if lots of people are looking to trade and we can get plenty of picks and try out Jason and Colt then trade back. It all depends on how many hole need filling.

[wvtbred]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/redskins-coaches-head-for-seni.html?wprss=redskinsinsider

Although no hard news on the subject, Reid knows more about what's going on than any of us do.

Bwhahaha the build up of Jason is working already.

Gotta love it!!!

[texasthunder]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/redskins-coaches-head-for-seni.html?wprss=redskinsinsider

Although no hard news on the subject, Reid knows more about what's going on than any of us do.






Yes, we should tender him an offer, that I guess could be construed as retaining someone.

All this talk about players, and I would be willing to bet that Shanahan has not had much time to meet and evaluate any of the players.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

What if we retain Campbell as a RFA and don't draft a QB?

If it's just a one year deal or maybe even a two, then I'll still be pissed but only a little. I'll just have to be patient. That will signal that Jason isn't the future and that he will be replaced soon. But anything long term...ugh.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Reid may know more but he also has a vested interest in pimping Jason as much as possible. He and his predecessor, JLC, have shown that they are both enamored with the man on a personal level and through that affinity it colors their reporting.

I understand liking a guy and not being too harsh but they totally defy wisdom on a number of occasions.

That doesn't mean Reid is wrong here, nor does it mean that tendering Jason and letting him play a decent year next year, statistically, may increase his value while we train someone else.

[mistertim]

Bwhahaha the build up of Jason is working already.

Gotta love it!!!

Right. Because there is no way that retaining Campbell for at least one more year given the likely horrid FA market and our other glaring needs would be a logical thing to do.

[Santana_89]

It's still early and nothing is set in stone yet.

It's all speculation :)

[frankez99]

Bwhahaha the build up of Jason is working already.

Gotta love it!!!

Weren't you the one with the "mystery source" that said that the reason G.Williams wasn't hired was because he wanted to start Collins over JC? :doh:

What happens if Shanahan decides to start JC week one, does he get fired? :silly:

[wvtbred]

Right. Because there is no way that retaining Campbell for at least one more year given the likely horrid FA market and our other glaring needs would be a logical thing to do.

You all were saying the same thing last year and look where that got us.

Enough is enough.

[wvtbred]

Weren't you the one with the "mystery source" that said that the reason G.Williams wasn't hired was because he wanted to start Collins over JC? :doh:

What happens if Shanahan decides to start JC week one, does he get fired? :silly:

As a matter of fact I was and I also said my source said Shanny was coming here so I guess none of that matters.

My source has said nothing about "if" Jason were her opening day so what does that have to do with it? Why would he/she?

You guys need to remember Jason is his own worst enemy. He has said repeatedly he DOESN'T welcome competition because he is a starting qb in the NFL. At a minimum he will see open comp in camp so how do you think he will handle that? Personally if he is here I don't think he handles it well.

Enjoy

[mistertim]

You all were saying the same thing last year and look where that got us.

Enough is enough.

Well at least you aren't part of the FO. Look, this year is different. There won't be a cap. Campbell isn't going to be a free agent. Which means we can tender him and keep him for pretty cheap. If they decide to go with a QB in the draft, fine. He can sit and learn while Campbell works behind a rebuilding OL. If we don't get a QB, fine. We probably will next draft. But it is logical to keep Campbell on the cheap. No rookie is going to be able to come in and start behind this line, even if they do draft a couple of new guys it will take some time for them to gel. Todd Collins is old and immobile and hasn't done squat since changing systems. Colt is a 6th round pick who is still a complete unknown. There are also no decent FA QBs who would really be an upgrade over JC. Shanahan is too smart to put all of his eggs in one basket and get rid of JC while just hoping they draft a QB who is great or hoping that Collins can stay alive behind a rebuilding line or that Colt ends up being any good.

[wvtbred]

Well at least you aren't part of the FO. Look, this year is different. There won't be a cap. Campbell isn't going to be a free agent. Which means we can tender him and keep him for pretty cheap. If they decide to go with a QB in the draft, fine. He can sit and learn while Campbell works behind a rebuilding OL. If we don't get a QB, fine. We probably will next draft. But it is logical to keep Campbell on the cheap. No rookie is going to be able to come in and start behind this line, even if they do draft a couple of new guys it will take some time for them to gel. Todd Collins is old and immobile and hasn't done squat since changing systems. Colt is a 6th round pick who is still a complete unknown. There are also no decent FA QBs who would really be an upgrade over JC. Shanahan is too smart to put all of his eggs in one basket and get rid of JC while just hoping they draft a QB who is great or hoping that Collins can stay alive behind a rebuilding line or that Colt ends up being any good.

Same old company line....this year is different. Tender jason for a year and it's possible his big head says "I am worth more then that" then threatens to sit out. I hope he tries that crap to be honest. That or we tender him for a year at about 3 mil and he gets scooped up. My gut says he is trade bait on draft day and I will stick with that.

[alwaysaskin]

Interesting how everytime someone says something favorable about Campbell that same corps of posters runs in and cries Personal Bias, or comes up with a conspiracy theory.

[Kindred]

The strategy for every single position is that you play the best player available at that position, constantly drafting for depth and the future development at that position. So the question is, is JC our best player available atm? yes. Do we have sufficient depth and future prospects at that position? That's for Shannahan to evaluate and decide on. If we draft a QB it will be because he does not have faith in CB as the future.

Imo, our starting player, and depth at the QB position is so much higher than quite a few other positions on this team, and so is unlikely to change.

[Santana_89]

Reid may know more but he also has a vested interest in pimping Jason as much as possible. He and his predecessor, JLC, have shown that they are both enamored with the man on a personal level and through that affinity it colors their reporting.


Although I agree with your entire post ...the highlighted portion is so very true.
Reid is better than JLC but that's not really say much imho.

[mistertim]

Same old company line....this year is different. Tender jason for a year and it's possible his big head says "I am worth more then that" then threatens to sit out. I hope he tries that crap to be honest. That or we tender him for a year at about 3 mil and he gets scooped up. My gut says he is trade bait on draft day and I will stick with that.

It isn't a "company line". Without the cap, this year literally is completely different from pretty much every facet. Monetary, FA, all that stuff. Like I said, I think Shanahan is too smart to put all his eggs in one basket. I think he and Allen would do something logical like retain Campbell for a year or two.

As far as Campbell personally, yes that is definitely him. Big head, locker room cancer, would sit out and pout. If they retained him I doubt he would sit out. He really doesn't seem like that kind of guy because he knows it would be damaging to the team. The best he could do is go out and play the best he can and hope that he either plays well enough for Shanny to keep him or well enough that another team will pick him up and give him a pretty good contract in 2011.

[[[ghost]]]

You all were saying the same thing last year and look where that got us.

Enough is enough.

Hey, I take credit for my words. You're spot on here, bro.

We all said that this OL would suck. And it did.

I wish I was wrong but hey, it happens.

[wvtbred]

It isn't a "company line". Without the cap, this year literally is completely different from pretty much every facet. Monetary, FA, all that stuff. Like I said, I think Shanahan is too smart to put all his eggs in one basket. I think he and Allen would do something logical like retain Campbell for a year or two.



Well than it might actually raise his value a hair don't you think?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Interesting how everytime someone says something favorable about Campbell that same corps of posters runs in and cries Personal Bias, or comes up with a conspiracy theory.

There's nothing favorable really here. "likely to retain" would not be mentioned if a new coach came into a situation with John Elway, Drew Brees or Peyton manning. So please. Enough with that.

As for the bias, it's ABSOLUTELY TRUE with JLC and now Reid. Everyone knows it, it's acknowledged and their reporting suffers for it. One need only see JLC's metaphorical pederasty of JC at the end of 2007 (oh, the team would have been doing this with any QB, nost just Collins, etc)

[CM916]

Well the JC haters are throwing furniture in their houses right now.

I'm not because I know it's just going to be a one-year minimum deal. He will never be the answer but he makes a nice stop-gap until we find someone better or get a rookie up to speed.

[SauzzBozz]

rebuild the OL, keep JC for almost nothing and he can help to mold a younger QB to take his place. Not that bad of an idea.

[mistertim]

Well than it might actually raise his value a hair don't you think?

You're missing the point entirely. Lets say they get a 2nd rounder for him and take it. You still have a problem...no QB. So you're back to square one and putting all of your eggs in one basket and hoping your top drafted rookie won't get hurt or shell shocked behind a rebuilding OL and end up a bust, or that Collins can stay healthy behind it, or that Colt ends up being any good.

[TK]

Reid knows more about what's going on than any of us do.
You sure about that?:)

[Jumbo]

You sure about that?:)

Well, one of the most "common states of being" on ES is being sure while still being wrong. Even given it a go myself from time to time. :D

[mistertim]

Well than it might actually raise his value a hair don't you think?

Double post

[Hunter_R]

rebuild the OL, keep JC for almost nothing and he can help to mold a younger QB to take his place. Not that bad of an idea.
I don't want him anywhere near a new, developing quarterback.

[Rufus T Firefly]

You're missing the point entirely. Lets say they get a 2nd rounder for him and take it. You still have a problem...no QB. So you're back to square one and putting all of your eggs in one basket and hoping your top drafted rookie won't get hurt or shell shocked behind a rebuilding OL and end up a bust, or that Collins can stay healthy behind it, or that Colt ends up being any good.

2010 isn't what we should be worried about, or making decisions for. I really don't see Campbell as someone you can put a franchise tag on (for a QB, that's somewhere near 13 mil). Meaning keeping him for 2010 is going to lead to him leaving for nothing next year. So tendering and keeping Campbell for a year is really a decision to sacrifice whatever picks we could get for him for the sake of making the team a little better for one year.

For a team that needs as much building as ours, that's just wrong-headed, imo.

[authentic]

Not really. One year tender, draft a rookie, start Campbell until rookie is ready, dump Campbell.

Now if we sign Campbell to a 5 year deal and don't take a QB in the draft, I'll be pissed.

yup, basically sums up my thoughts.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Honestly I hope this is a smoke screen to drum up some trading options for JC because JC=not the answers at QB. This team needs a QB I am tired of people saying we need O line we do but the last time I checked this league is QB driven.

[nightbird]

I read that blog entry, and honestly I see zero indication of JC being re-signed.

It's about coaches going to the senior bowl, and how many draftniks have us taking Bradford.

Can someone point out to me where it says anything about Redskins expecting to retain JC?

[KokoMike]

jason Reid has been a sucker for Campbell from the day he got the job. We are getting jobbed by both of them.

[MartinC]

I read that blog entry, and honestly I see zero indication of JC being re-signed.

It's about coaches going to the senior bowl, and how many draftniks have us taking Bradford.

Can someone point out to me where it says anything about Redskins expecting to retain JC?

Read the 4th para again. The sentence which says we are expected to retain Campbell. Now there is no evidence provided, no sources quoted etc so take it's for what it's worth etc.

[wvtbred]

You're missing the point entirely. Lets say they get a 2nd rounder for him and take it. You still have a problem...no QB. So you're back to square one and putting all of your eggs in one basket and hoping your top drafted rookie won't get hurt or shell shocked behind a rebuilding OL and end up a bust, or that Collins can stay healthy behind it, or that Colt ends up being any good.

2nd rounder? Wow I was beginning to give you the benefit of the doubt too.

Wow just wow, in my wildest dreams I was hoping for a third but a second?

All eggs in one basket with the basket including, Todd, Colt, FA's or draftee on one side of the scale and Jason in the other basket on the other side of the scale? Again WOW just WOW! Oh and HELL YES!!!

[CM916]

Much as I hate having him around, if we don't retain Campbell, there better be some decent FA backups out there. I'm not sure any of our other three QBs survive into the regular season. I love Todd Collins but do the coaches? With Colt, I think he has everything riding on this preseason. Bartel or whatever his name is probably doesn't get through minicamp.

[lou4gehrig]

What if we retain Campbell as a RFA and don't draft a QB?

Then we draft an OT in round 1 this season and a QB in the first round next season. Just like the Jets did.

Either way, this will be Campbell's last season.

[KokoMike]

Double post...so, I'll edit it to say Sanchez was worth 3 Campbells..

[mistertim]

2nd rounder? Wow I was beginning to give you the benefit of the doubt too.

Wow just wow, in my wildest dreams I was hoping for a third but a second?

All eggs in one basket with the basket including, Todd, Colt, FA's or draftee on one side of the scale and Jason in the other basket on the other side of the scale? Again WOW just WOW! Oh and HELL YES!!!


Yes all those amazing eggs. Todd who is an old career backup and isn't mobile enough to last a whole season behind a newly rebuilding OL. Colt who is a complete unknown. Could be good, could be awful, and has also had injury problems. A rookie who simply won't be ready to be thrown to the wolves behind aforementioned newly rebuilding line unless you're interested to see how fast a guy can get hurt or shell shocked and become a bust. And all those amazing FAs...Delhomme...Garcia (who is, what, 39, and hasn't taken a snap in how long?)...Pennington. Championship!

I doubt Shanny is going to hedge his bets on so many unknowns. You don't like JC, which is incredibly clear. That is fine. But that doesn't change the fact that he is a known commodity and still put up decent numbers behind a horrid OL and was able to take the abuse and get back up every time, which is going to be necessary with a rebuilding line.

[Lone Star Skin Fan]

the thought of JC playing one more snap as our QB brings several emotions: Anger, Disbelief, Disgust among them. How many lives does this guy have? He lacks the two key traits all successful QBs must have- A high football IQ and leadership, good line or not. He can have 5 pro bowlers in front of him and he will at best put up average numbers.
I would rather have Shanny let Collins play until the rookie is ready or even bring in a veteran off the street on the cheap until the rookie is ready. My God please no more Campbell. Haven't you guys seen enough?

[Hooper]

Reid may know more but he also has a vested interest in pimping Jason as much as possible. He and his predecessor, JLC, have shown that they are both enamored with the man on a personal level and through that affinity it colors their reporting.

Agree with this 100 percent. Reid and JLC both have total mancrushes on Campbell. Reid routinely goes out of his way to defend Campbell.

JC will probably be back because it makes sense when you consider what you could get for him (nothing) and who else is out there. But at this point he's just keeping the seat warm.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

You sure about that?:)

lol well let me rephrase that: he knows more than most about the situation.

[Redskins4ever]

This isn't really a surprise. It just makes sense, especially going into an uncapped year. All the rookie QBs coming out of college have major question marks, the team needs a major overhaul in several areas, the free agent pool will probably be severely limited in an uncapped year, Campbell can be retained for pennies on the dollar for a starting QB's salary, etc. There's just no logical reason to get rid of Campbell this year.

It does make sense to bring Jason Campbell back. With Bradford recovering from injury and not being able to show scouts what he can do at the combine because of injury, it's a risk to draft him. Bradford has to show off his strengths and weaknesses, and scouts taking a QB high has to see what Bradford can do at the combine but unfortunately, it appears like he's not going to be able to perform. If he slips to the second round, then the Redskins should then take him if he's available with the 37th overall pick. They should use the 4th overall pick and trade down and use those additional picks to fill out their offensive line.

As for Campbell, he needs to focus on getting better in Shanahan's offense. He just might be the long term QB solution for this franchise.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Agree with this 100 percent. Reid and JLC both have total mancrushes on Campbell. Reid routinely goes out of his way to defend Campbell.

JC will probably be back because it makes sense when you consider what you could get for him (nothing) and who else is out there. But at this point he's just keeping the seat warm.

At the same time, he basically admits that Campbell is probably not a long term answer at QB for this team. I know he's technically projecting Shanny's take on it, but i feel he is taking a non-biased approach to the article

[nightbird]

Read the 4th para again. The sentence which says we are expected to retain Campbell. Now there is no evidence provided, no sources quoted etc so take it's for what it's worth etc.

Thanks.

It's buried in there, and so vague that it's meaningless to me.

The Redskins "are expected" to retain? "Expected" by whom? You, Reid? Or someone else? Based on what?

[Warhead36]

I'm okay with it. While he's not a franchise QB, Campbell isn't some dreadful atrocity like Jamarcus Russell either. Let him take the licks while we rebuild and we can get a QB later, or draft one and let him develop. Campbell would be a great mentor for any young guy to learn from as far as how to prepare and be a professional.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Thanks.

It's buried in there, and so vague that it's meaningless to me.

The Redskins "are expected" to retain? "Expected" by whom? You, Reid? Or someone else? Based on what?

If you read the OP, you would see that I already pointed out that there was no hard evidence...

[wvtbred]

Double post...so, I'll edit it to say Sanchez was worth 3 Campbells..

Sanchez looked really good in the loss today and it's a damn shame that trade didn't go through.

[wvtbred]

I doubt Shanny is going to hedge his bets on so many unknowns. You don't like JC, which is incredibly clear. That is fine. But that doesn't change the fact that he is a known commodity and still put up decent numbers behind a horrid OL and was able to take the abuse and get back up every time, which is going to be necessary with a rebuilding line.

Oh he is known alright and that is the main reason he doesn't deserve to be a starting QB in this league.

[nightbird]

If you read the OP, you would see that I already pointed out that there was no hard evidence...

I know. I'm just seconding all that stuff.

I simply don't believe Shanny is going to leak his thoughts on the subject, not to anyone.

[RocketCitySkins]

You guys need to remember Jason is his own worst enemy. He has said repeatedly he DOESN'T welcome competition because he is a starting qb in the NFL. At a minimum he will see open comp in camp so how do you think he will handle that? Personally if he is here I don't think he handles it well.



That's not what JC said in a radio interview the day of MS press conference. He said he was fine with a quarterback competition. There were comments made on the board wondering why he would want a trade last year if Sanchez was drafted but was okay with a competition this year.

[LightningBuggs]

I said it on Draft Day 2009 and I'll stand by it.

Snyder shoulda done whatever it took to get Sanchez. Guy showed in the playoffs that he's got "it".

I'm sure many will point to his rookie stats, but if you look at Peyton, Aikman, etc, they all had a crappy first years.

Sanchez is a keeper.

If Skins had gone harder after him, we wouldn't still be having this Campbell discussion.

[hitmandm]

not really. One year tender, draft a rookie, start campbell until rookie is ready, dump campbell.

Now if we sign campbell to a 5 year deal and don't take a qb in the draft, i'll be pissed.

+1

[MrJL]

I said it on Draft Day 2009 and I'll stand by it.

Snyder shoulda done whatever it took to get Sanchez. Guy showed in the playoffs that he's got "it".

I'm sure many will point to his rookie stats, but if you look at Peyton, Aikman, etc, they all had a crappy first years.

Sanchez is a keeper.

If Skins had gone harder after him, we wouldn't still be having this Campbell discussion.

we'd have been worse this year with Sanchez. His line would have been collapsing around him and we wouldn't have had Orakpo.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Sanchez is legit, but I'll take Clausen/Bradford + Orakpo over Sanchez, thanks.

[wdcredskins]

I really hope we do. If we can get Okung in the first round to go along with various OLine talent later in the draft, I think JC will SHOCK the world (and 90% of ES) next year.


because getting a good oline is all of a sudden going to make candle's accuracy better? make his release quicker? make his ability to read denfense prior to snap better? his pocket presence better? ability to hit receivers in stride better? ability to throw passes more than 5 yards pass the LOS. ability to make thrwos in tight coverage? ability to not make boneheaded plays in his 5th , oh wait in his 6th yr?

there is a difference between having a decent QB but needs better protection as oppose to having a bad QB that needs better protection. this guy JC is what he is. one of the worst starting QB in the league and no matter how good the protection is, he will still be bad as it has been proven over and over again in the past with good protection, good running game or bad oline and no running game. doesnt really matter what the surrounding is with this guy. he is still a bad qb.

[Redskins4ever]

Campbell is an above average QB. He has put up very good numbers statistically throughout his short career. He's had to learn offense after offense, and he's done awfully well. The thing is though, Jason Campbell has twice guided the team to a winning record throughout the first half of two football seasons(2007 5-3 & 2008 6-2) but he hasn't guided the Redskins to a winning record after a 16 game season, nor he has led the team into the post season. That doesn't make him a bad QB. That says more about the supporting cast around him.

Allen and Shanahan are no fools. They know Jason is valuable.

[MadMonkey]

Well the JC haters are throwing furniture in their houses right now.


LOL so true!


What I find interesting is people think the Redskins even had a chance of moving up 9 spots to draft Sanchez with the 4th pick because it's obvious the Jets had him targeted and to get him would have cost a Kings Ransom with future draft picks which would have been a very dumb move considering the o-line problems, unproven wr's and lack of a running back including injuries.

The only QB the Skins had a legitimate shot at getting was Cutler with a trade, or Josh Freeman in the draft

[Buford]

A one year deal at like 3.5 mil for a guy you know can START even if you're trying to groom a guy....is a steal.

If you take a rookie at #4, you're going to pay his unproven ass a lot more than that.

I'd prefer they try to keep Campbell with a 1 year deal AND they draft a guy after they use the 1st and 2nd rounders on Line/DB depth. Then go for a QB after that.

There is no rookie or available vet QB who will #1 be cheaper or available.

Shanny might want to develop a guy. But maybe he thinks he can take a mid rounder QB this year, and an earlier one next year if he still feels he needs one. For all we know, maybe Campbell grows under Shanny and Junior.

[MadMonkey]

A one year deal at like 3.5 mil for a guy you know can START even if you're trying to groom a guy....is a steal.

If you take a rookie at #4, you're going to pay his unproven ass a lot more than that.

I'd prefer they try to keep Campbell with a 1 year deal AND they draft a guy after they use the 1st and 2nd rounders on Line/DB depth. Then go for a QB after that.

There is no rookie or available vet QB who will #1 be cheaper or available.

Shanny might want to develop a guy. But maybe he thinks he can take a mid rounder QB this year, and an earlier one next year if he still feels he needs one. For all we know, maybe Campbell grows under Shanny and Junior.


I agree, but taking defense that high when they can fill those needs in the FA market and later rounds of the draft could help them better as there are just too many holes on the o-line.

[That Redskins Fan]

Skins are smart ... they will pump him, but try to move Jason before the Draft. I don't think they will be successful and after taking either Bradford or Clausen Skins will end up releasing him. I don 't think Campbell is in the Skins' long range plans ...so no other option makes sense.

i hope so how many chances does someone get to prove he wil not take this team to the playoffs or to a super bowl .. . jason is a great guy but enough is enough 20-32 record speaks for itself

[tr1]

Sanchez looked really good in the loss today and it's a damn shame that trade didn't go through.

And, Cutler has looked like crap this season...good thing that trade didn't happen.

Hindsight is always twenty-twenty.

[Buford]

i hope so how many chances does someone get to prove he wil not take this team to the playoffs or to a super bowl .. . jason is a great guy but enough is enough 20-32 record speaks for itself


Is isn't that simple. While his OL has been getting worse and worse, he's still been improving as a QB. Not saying he's elite. Just saying that right now nobody can name a guy who would be available....and give them a better chance to win game in 2010. No rookie...and no Vet that hit the open market.

I recall the skins having the lead late in a lot of games this year to only see the D give up that backbreaking go ahead score with only a few min left.

[tr1]

this guy JC is what he is. one of the worst starting QB in the league and no matter how good the protection is, he will still be bad as it has been proven over and over again in the past with good protection, good running game or bad oline and no running game. doesnt really matter what the surrounding is with this guy. he is still a bad qb.

Yet, if this report is true, the new HC will retain him...probably start him.

So, I guess Shanahan is a poor judge of talent, apparently?

[tr1]

Is isn't that simple. While his OL has been getting worse and worse, he's still been improving as a QB. Not saying he's elite. Just saying that right now nobody can name a guy who would be available....and give them a better chance to win game in 2010. No rookie...and no Vet that hit the open market.

I recall the skins having the lead late in a lot of games this year to only see the D give up that backbreaking go ahead score with only a few min left.

And, in 2008, when given an o-line that protected him and created a running game, he was 6-2.

He's adequate.

[tr1]

I said it on Draft Day 2009 and I'll stand by it.

Snyder shoulda done whatever it took to get Sanchez. Guy showed in the playoffs that he's got "it".

I'm sure many will point to his rookie stats, but if you look at Peyton, Aikman, etc, they all had a crappy first years.

Sanchez is a keeper.

If Skins had gone harder after him, we wouldn't still be having this Campbell discussion.

And, had we gotten Cutler, do you think we'd have been better off?

[Fred Jones]

I said it on Draft Day 2009 and I'll stand by it.

Snyder shoulda done whatever it took to get Sanchez. Guy showed in the playoffs that he's got "it".

I'm sure many will point to his rookie stats, but if you look at Peyton, Aikman, etc, they all had a crappy first years.

Sanchez is a keeper.

If Skins had gone harder after him, we wouldn't still be having this Campbell discussion.

Sanchez is no more a keeper than any other rookie QB. He stood behind a great line and running game. Just have to wait and see what his future holds. He may turn out or he maybe just like the other rookies that shinning their first year and played no better than JC their second year.

[Buford]

And, in 2008, when given an o-line that protected him and created a running game, he was 6-2.

He's adequate.


Yep, and if we were able to do the sanchez trade. He would been Ramsey'd behind this OL....we'd be out of a few 1st rounders.....and no Orakpo.

Seems that not getting Cutler OR Sanchez was better.

[Fred Jones]

First, I want to see what Shanny can do with JC.

Second, IMHO, I wouldn't mind drafting a Tackle with the first pick and going QB with the second.

That said, I am going to sit back this off season and be patient. Let the hopefully smart people the owner hired to do their job.

[#98QBKiller]

If we do keep him it will only be for a year to groom a rookie QB.

If we can get a decent draft pick out of him to help build the offensive line, I doubt we keep him at all. The Jason Campbell experiment has been a failure and is pretty much over.

[tr1]

If we do keep him it will only be for a year to groom a rookie QB.

If we can get a decent draft pick out of him to help build the offensive line, I doubt we keep him at all. The Jason Campbell experiment has been a failure and is pretty much over.

I'm still waiting to hear why Shanahan would even consider starting JC, let alone keeping him, if he's so friggin' terrible.

Anyone? Is Shanahan that terrible a judge of talent? What about Allen? Either they're incredibly poor judges of talent, or...well, you finish the sentence.

[#98QBKiller]

I'm still waiting to hear why Shanahan would even consider starting JC, let alone keeping him, if he's so friggin' terrible.

Anyone? Is Shanahan that terrible a judge of talent? What about Allen? Either they're incredibly poor judges of talent, or...well, you finish the sentence.

When did Shanahan say that he was considering starting JC? Or are you referring to Jason Reid's vague speculation in the OP's link?

And did you miss my first sentence about Shanahan possibly keeping him for a year to groom a rookie? Because that's in the article too, can I use that as evidence that we're in fact drafting a rookie with the #4 pick and grooming him?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

And, in 2008, when given an o-line that protected him and created a running game, he was 6-2.

He's adequate.

Lots of QBs could have been 6-2 in that situation really. Clinton Portis was on pace for a 2000 yard season, and the defense was dominating. And even then, he was on pace for only 16 TDs.

He's as adequate as Brad Johnson after 2003, or Sage Rosenfels, or maybe Byron Leftwich.

[wvtbred]

I'm still waiting to hear why Shanahan would even consider starting JC, let alone keeping him, if he's so friggin' terrible.

Anyone? Is Shanahan that terrible a judge of talent? What about Allen? Either they're incredibly poor judges of talent, or...well, you finish the sentence.

He will consider it for trade purposes.

Oh look who's back where were you the last couple weeks of the season tr1? Can't what to hear what you say when a real coach doesn't play Jason.

Like I said before jason won't survive the open competition mentally because he thinks he is above it.

[MrJL]

And, in 2008, when given an o-line that protected him and created a running game, he was 6-2.

He's adequate.


and would have been 7-1 if not for a couple flukes in the Rams game.

[CM916]

For the record, the Bears retained Rex Grossman for another year after his contract was up too. That wasn't a vote of confidence, it was just the best they could do at the time.

[Fred Jones]

Back to my original statement many weeks ago.

I have no problem bringing in a better QB. Just make sure that quarterback is better. Wasting a pick on another Carr or Harrington or whoever will set this franchise back.

And tell that to the Bradford lovers. What happens if he sucks? What happens if he can't read NFL defenses? What happens if he can't stay healthy? Do we have to hear about it for the next five years like people still talk about Ramsey claiming the Oline line killed him. He couldn't read NFL defenses either. I can just hear it now. If only Bradford had stayed healthy he would have been a pro bowl QB.

[NewCliche21]

Not really. One year tender, draft a rookie, start Campbell until rookie is ready, dump Campbell.

Now if we sign Campbell to a 5 year deal and don't take a QB in the draft, I'll be pissed.

I'm in the middle of those two points of view.

Tender, draft a rookie (Bradford)!, start Campbell until the rookie is ready, and that's that. Keep Campbell on as a #2 unless we can get him traded.

[NewCliche21]

Back to my original statement many weeks ago.

I have no problem bringing in a better QB. Just make sure that quarterback is better. Wasting a pick on another Carr or Harrington or whoever will set this franchise back.

And tell that to the Bradford lovers. What happens if he sucks? What happens if he can't read NFL defenses? What happens if he can't stay healthy? Do we have to hear about it for the next five years like people still talk about Ramsey claiming the Oline line killed him. He couldn't read NFL defenses either. I can just hear it now. If only Bradford had stayed healthy he would have been a pro bowl QB.

You don't win by this attitude. In 97-ish: "Hey Manning, lovers! What happens if he sucks?!" Same attitude would prevent us from getting the greatest quarterback of our tim.

[Mahons21]

Its seems quite hypocritical that those in favor of Campbell use his W/L record of an 8 game stretch to support their opinion. Yet when confronted with Campbell's career W/L record they respond similar to "Yaa, because wins and losses are all on the QB." Either you believe W/L are a good representation of a QB's play, or you don't. You can't choose an 8 game stretch where it matters but then neglect the rest of his career. If you do believe it is a good stat to judge a QB there is no possible way you could believe Jason Campbell is starting material. If you don't believe it is; than you shouldn't use it to support your opinion.

[ciresolstice]

My feelings on the matter change daily, or weekly lol. One day I want a new QB drafted(Bradford), and JC out..another I want to keep JC and bolster the oline, get Okung or one of those guys, another I want the BPA even if it's a defensive player as bad as the oline is. All I know is I'm glad Shanahan and Bruce are there and I'll be good with whatever direction they decide.

[Mahons21]

You don't win by this attitude. In 97-ish: "Hey Manning, lovers! What happens if he sucks?!" Same attitude would prevent us from getting the greatest quarterback of our tim.

-Ya and the fact of the matter is the draft is a crap shoot. You simply can't know if a QB you draft will for certain be better than the current QB on the roster.

[#98QBKiller]

Its seems quite hypocritical that those in favor of Campbell use his W/L record of an 8 game stretch to support their opinion. Yet when confronted with Campbell's career W/L record they respond similar to "Yaa, because wins and losses are all on the QB." Either you believe W/L are a good representation of a QB's play, or you don't. You can't choose an 8 game stretch where it matters but then neglect the rest of his career. If you do believe it is a good stat to judge a QB there is no possible way you could believe Jason Campbell is starting material. If you don't believe it is; than you shouldn't use it to support your opinion.


Exactly. It's called "cherry picking."

[ciresolstice]

Its seems quite hypocritical that those in favor of Campbell use his W/L record of an 8 game stretch to support their opinion. Yet when confronted with Campbell's career W/L record they respond similar to "Yaa, because wins and losses are all on the QB." Either you believe W/L are a good representation of a QB's play, or you don't. You can't choose an 8 game stretch where it matters but then neglect the rest of his career. If you do believe it is a good stat to judge a QB there is no possible way you could believe Jason Campbell is starting material. If you don't believe it is; than you shouldn't use it to support your opinion.


Not at all, simply due to the fact, those that bash Campbell for W/L because they make that solely on the QB, end of discussion, the QB wins or loses the game there are no other factors apparently.

Those in favor of Campbell and mention his 8 W/L game stretch also noted the fact that the line was blocking well, and we had a good running game. That he is adequate not great. When mentioning the losing and one says, well the running game was crap and the line sucks, that's making excuses for Campbell. Eh...this issue so dead. All it supports is the fact, when the line blocks well and the running game is good he is an adequate, can get the job done, not spectacular QB.

Sure I'd like to have a better QB than Campbell, then again I'd want the Skins to be an ALL-Madden team but that's not happening.

[Mahons21]

Not at all, simply due to the fact, those that bash Campbell for W/L because they make that solely on the QB, end of discussion, the QB wins or loses the game there are no other factors apparently.
-Can you point to a post where someone has said this?


Those in favor of Campbell and mention his 8 W/L game stretch also noted the fact that the line was blocking well, and we had a good running game. That he is adequate not great. When mentioning the losing and one says, well the running game was crap and the line sucks, that's making excuses for Campbell. Eh...this issue so dead. All it supports is the fact, when the line blocks well and the running game is good he is an adequate, can get the job done, not spectacular QB.

Sure I'd like to have a better QB than Campbell, then again I'd want the Skins to be an ALL-Madden team but that's not happening.

-Agree issue is dead, and it simply proves Campbell is average at best.
-Agree I would also love for the Skins to be all-madden team, but if we could only have one player be all-madden, I would prefer it to be the player that has the most profound impact on the game. In my opinion that is the QB.

[darrelgreenie]

-Can you point to a post where someone has said this?

Off the top of my head: SoCalSkins uses Campbell W/L record as his main reason for his opinion that Campbell is the worst QB ever.


-Agree issue is dead, and it simply proves Campbell is average at best.

I agree its a dead issue and i try to avoid Campbell based arguments for 2010 but......

If Campbell was 'adequate' during the brief period of time under Zorn's tenure when there was good OL play and a good running game; (without getting into a debate over the quality of his play during 6-2 stretch) doesn't it stand to reason that Jason would have continued to improve as a QB if the OL and running game persisted?

Imho, becoming a pro-bowl caliber is a process.
It requires good coaching+good OL+decent to good running game+time.
These are the elements under which a QB can reach there potential.
Jason was still a developing QB during the 6-2 stretch and was playing well when all the required elements were in place.
Unfortuneatly bad franchises cannot sustain these elements and couldn't sustain an environment friendly to the growth of a QB.

I don't see how that 6-2 stretch is somehow Campbell's 'ceiling' when it was only a brief glimpse before the OL and running game fell apart...not to mention the coaching aspect.

I'm with Fred Jones on this one:


Back to my original statement many weeks ago.



I have no problem bringing in a better QB. Just make sure that quarterback is better.

[paintrain]

Reid basically confirming what most of us expect anyways. Campbell will be back as the starter on a one year tender and we're drafting a QB early in the draft. There's really no reason to gnash over Campbell as we did last offseason.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I have no problem bringing in a better QB. Just make sure that quarterback is better. Wasting a pick on another Carr or Harrington or whoever will set this franchise back.



this is the problem with the campbell fan club, they refuse to even entertain the notion that someone might actually be better. how are you ever gonna know if someone can play better than campbell if they dont even get the chance? maybe sage rosenfels can run this offense better? maybe colt brennan can? guess what: we'll never know until someone else gets a chance. and the JC fan club cant even fathom another QB getting a shot unless were 100% sure hes drew brees.

theres no such thing as a sure thing, and the campbell fan club thinks we need to stick with campbell until there is one, which is a massive catch 22. campbell has not played well enough to warrant anymore playing time, all hes done is prove that he can be mediocre with a great running game and defense. sorry, that doesnt cut it, especially on a team that needs to start looking into the future.

nobody knows anything about bradford or clausen except what they did in college. writing them off without ever seeing them take a snap in the NFL is maybe the stupidest thing ive ever heard.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Its seems quite hypocritical that those in favor of Campbell use his W/L record of an 8 game stretch to support their opinion. Yet when confronted with Campbell's career W/L record they respond similar to "Yaa, because wins and losses are all on the QB."


well duh, campbell is responsible for the 6-2 run, however hes not held responsible for being 19-32. lol

[SonnyJ]

I think retaining Campbell is a great idea if Shanahan's goal is to have an unproductive offense.

I can see it now - in the first game, Campbell goes 19/29, 223 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs, and the Redskins lose 21-17. Afterwards, the Shanahans are talking and saying "Our passing stats look pretty decent - about 65%, almost 8 YPA, with no picks and a score. How in the Hell did we only have a FG at halftime, and only 10 points 59:17 seconds into the game?"

We'll just shake our heads in resignation. Campbell is a curse upon this franchise. He's the worst kind of player - one that seems to make otherwise rational people think that there is more there, if only he can get such and such or so and so. Classic Fool's Gold.

In the purely meritorious world of professional football, he's figured out a way to keep getting good reviews despite staggering unproductivity.

[Skinsfan4life83]

this is the problem with the campbell fan club, they refuse to even entertain the notion that someone might actually be better. how are you ever gonna know if someone can play better than campbell if they dont even get the chance? maybe sage rosenfels can run this offense better? maybe colt brennan can? guess what: we'll never know until someone else gets a chance. and the JC fan club cant even fathom another QB getting a shot unless were 100% sure hes drew brees.

theres no such thing as a sure thing, and the campbell fan club thinks we need to stick with campbell until there is one, which is a massive catch 22. campbell has not played well enough to warrant anymore playing time, all hes done is prove that he can be mediocre with a great running game and defense. sorry, that doesnt cut it, especially on a team that needs to start looking into the future.

nobody knows anything about bradford or clausen except what they did in college. writing them off without ever seeing them take a snap in the NFL is maybe the stupidest thing ive ever heard.

There is defintely no such thing as a sure thing but i still think this team should draft Sam Bradford/Clausen in the upcoming draft, we need a QB of the future. That being said, I think it is painfully obvious that JC is and has been the best QB in this roster for a while now. TC value dropped supremely when Al Saunders left, he didnt do any better than JC in his limited time this year. I mean for Christ sake everybody is basing TC's entire career off of 3 friggin games:doh: And dont get me started on Colt Brennan is unproven and was soundly beat in Training Camp by JC an TC. This team need a Clutch Franchise Quarterback, it hasnt had one in years

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I think retaining Campbell is a great idea if Shanahan's goal is to have an unproductive offense.

I can see it now - in the first game, Campbell goes 19/29, 223 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs, and the Redskins lose 21-17. Afterwards, the Shanahans are talking and saying "Our passing stats look pretty decent - about 65%, almost 8 YPA, with no picks and a score. How in the Hell did we only have a FG at halftime, and only 10 points 59:17 seconds into the game?"

We'll just shake our heads in resignation. Campbell is a curse upon this franchise. He's the worst kind of player - one that seems to make otherwise rational people think that there is more there, if only he can get such and such or so and so. Classic Fool's Gold.

In the purely meritorious world of professional football, he's figured out a way to keep getting good reviews despite staggering unproductivity.


this post should be stickied on the front page. 100% agree.

[Skinsfan4life83]

I think retaining Campbell is a great idea if Shanahan's goal is to have an unproductive offense.

I can see it now - in the first game, Campbell goes 19/29, 223 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs, and the Redskins lose 21-17. Afterwards, the Shanahans are talking and saying "Our passing stats look pretty decent - about 65%, almost 8 YPA, with no picks and a score. How in the Hell did we only have a FG at halftime, and only 10 points 59:17 seconds into the game?"

We'll just shake our heads in resignation. Campbell is a curse upon this franchise. He's the worst kind of player - one that seems to make otherwise rational people think that there is more there, if only he can get such and such or so and so. Classic Fool's Gold.

In the purely meritorious world of professional football, he's figured out a way to keep getting good reviews despite staggering unproductivity.

This is the most ridiculous post i have read all day

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

There is defintely no such thing as a sure thing but i still think this team should draft Sam Bradford/Clausen in the upcoming draft, we need a QB of the future. That being said, I think it is painfully obvious that JC is and has been the best QB in this roster for a while now. TC value dropped supremely when Al Saunders left, he didnt do any better than JC in his limited time this year. I mean for Christ sake everybody is basing TC's entire career off of 3 friggin games:doh: And dont get me started on Colt Brennan is unproven and was soundly beat in Training Camp by JC an TC. This team need a Clutch Franchise Quarterback, it hasnt had one in years


i want us to draft a QB too, but keeping campbell does nothing for this team other than guarantee we're going to lose a bunch of games.

[pilsburypgh]

Shanahan! Keep JC and you are gonna find out why hes had so many different coaches. Your offense will not move with JC trust me. History has proven it. Drop him dude! Dont be the next coaching victim.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

This is the most ridiculous post i have read all day


that post is so spot on its painful. thats exactly what campbell does on a weekly basis: give off the illusion that hes a good QB while posting decent QB stats in losing efforts.

[SonnyJ]

well duh, campbell is responsible for the 6-2 run, however hes not held responsible for being 19-32. lol

Consider that, outside of that run, he's 13-30 as a starter. Other than an eight game stretch, about 15% of his starts, he's walked off the field as a winning QB only 30% of the time.

Think about who those wins were against this season - the Rams, Bucs, Broncos, and Raiders.

My God, I can't fathom what people are expecting to happen. I'm not a big Shanahan guy, but I'm fairly certain of his offensive credentials. Retaining Campbell, though, is going to be a clear signal to me that the guy has jumped the shark and is purely looking to cash a paycheck.

[SonnyJ]

There is defintely no such thing as a sure thing but i still think this team should draft Sam Bradford/Clausen in the upcoming draft, we need a QB of the future. That being said, I think it is painfully obvious that JC is and has been the best QB in this roster for a while now. TC value dropped supremely when Al Saunders left, he didnt do any better than JC in his limited time this year. I mean for Christ sake everybody is basing TC's entire career off of 3 friggin games:doh: And dont get me started on Colt Brennan is unproven and was soundly beat in Training Camp by JC an TC. This team need a Clutch Franchise Quarterback, it hasnt had one in years


This is the most ridiculous post i have read all day

Judging from your post that I quoted above, I'll take this one as a compliment :).

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Consider that, outside of that run, he's 13-30 as a starter. Other than an eight game stretch, about 15% of his starts, he's walked off the field as a winning QB only 30% of the time.

Think about who those wins were against this season - the Rams, Bucs, Broncos, and Raiders.

My God, I can't fathom what people are expecting to happen. I'm not a big Shanahan guy, but I'm fairly certain of his offensive credentials. Retaining Campbell, though, is going to be a clear signal to me that the guy has jumped the shark and is purely looking to cash a paycheck.


i think the only way we keep campbell is if we take bradford and shanny feels the market is super bare. we'll lose with campbell until the season is officially over, then start bradford and let him finish out the year.

and i cant imagine campbell would even wanna stick around, considering how cry baby he got last year at the ideas of cutler and sanchez, now he'll gladly stick around when we take a QB at #4?

hopefully his agent thinks he'll play better somewhere else.

[Skinsfan4life83]

that post is so spot on its painful. thats exactly what campbell does on a weekly basis: give off the illusion that hes a good QB while posting decent QB stats in losing efforts.

I do not agree at all, I think JC catches too much flak, he is a solid QB, who if he had all the pieces around him might flourish, but to me he is not clutch. He cannot take a game over with two mins left and win. He cant make that tight throw into coverage when it is needed. However to say he is a terrible QB is a bit of a stretch, i have seen far worse. He is mediocre at best, but who's to say,with the right supporting cast he might flourish. But i do think it is time for a change in Washington

[Skinsfan4life83]

Judging from your post that I quoted above, I'll take this one as a compliment :).

You do that, but your skewed view of Jason Campbell is just ludicrous. He is not the Worst QB ever for god's sake:doh:

[SonnyJ]

i think the only way we keep campbell is if we take bradford and shanny feels the market is super bare. we'll lose with campbell until the season is officially over, then start bradford and let him finish out the year.

Sorry, I just can't fathom a scenario where Campbell is the best option. Seriously. Go with Collins or Brennan. Would the record have been any worse if these guys had of been playing QB this season? Hardly.

You know with Campbell that you are essentially setting a governor on your offensive point production.

The only POSSIBLE saving grace for Campbell is if the Shanahans sit down and review tape of the last two seasons and come to the conclusion that Zorn was an even bigger offensive buffoon than any of us could have imagined. I just don't know if that's conceivable, though.

Look, I am pretty certain that the Shanahans can wring more offensive production out just by attacking more than Zorn the FG Lover did. I think by doing that, though, Campbell's flawed decision-making and poor defensive reading will get intensely magnified. There's a reason that Campbell's coaches so tightly manage him.

[SonnyJ]

You do that, but your skewed view of Jason Campbell is just ludicrous. He is not the Worst QB ever for god's sake:doh:

No, just the worst one that I've ever had to watch QB the team I support for 50+ games. ;)

[Drastik]

I wonder what you guys are going to feel like when Campbell is the opening day starter for the Redskins in 2010.

[SAli457180]

Unless Shanahan publicly comes out and says that Campbell is coming back, there's no guarantee he will be.

[Skinsfan4life83]

Sorry, I just can't fathom a scenario where Campbell is the best option. Seriously. Go with Collins or Brennan. Would the record have been any worse if these guys had of been playing QB this season? Hardly.

You know with Campbell that you are essentially setting a governor on your offensive point production.

The only POSSIBLE saving grace for Campbell is if the Shanahans sit down and review tape of the last two seasons and come to the conclusion that Zorn was an even bigger offensive buffoon than any of us could have imagined. I just don't know if that's conceivable, though.

Look, I am pretty certain that the Shanahans can wring more offensive production out just by attacking more than Zorn the FG Lover did. I think by doing that, though, Campbell's flawed decision-making and poor defensive reading will get intensely magnified. There's a reason that Campbell's coaches so tightly manage him.

Todd Collins is Garbage
Colt Brennan is unproven
Either one of them starting and we wouldnt even have been competitive in those games last season. This is just Blind hatred for a QB who has done nothing but what he was told since he was drafted, he may be lacking in certain areas but i bet there are a few teams who would want him starting for them

[SoCalSkins]

Off the top of my head: SoCalSkins uses Campbell W/L record as his main reason for his opinion that Campbell is the worst QB ever.



Don't ever use my name in an argument without providing a link or quote to one of my posts. I have zero trust in the accuracy of the interpretation of my posts from a member who is not a man of his word and has reneged on bets made here.

As far as the W/L record he holds the worst in franchise history for a player who played more than 45 games for the Skins.

He also holds the worst record of any Redskins QB to play in more than a season's total of games since 1963, prior to the first ever Super Bowl.

He is 1-15 lifetime against teams finishing with 10 or more wins. The Redskins are 2-14 against those teams since 2007 with Todd Collins starting in both wins.

Since JC was drafted, the Redskins are 14-6 when he plays a half or less and have played 3 playoff games. They are 19-32 when he has played more than a half with zero playoff games.

If the Redskins did not win with other QB's, there might be an argument to be made about the lack of importance of W/L records, but when the team is exponentially more likely to win when he sits than when he plays, it speaks volumes about his worthlessness as an NFL QB.

[SonnyJ]

I wonder what you guys are going to feel like when Campbell is the opening day starter for the Redskins in 2010.

Pretty terrible. I like to see my team score points and win games. I expect that to not happen with Campbell as QB. I'd prefer the unknown, at least it'll give me some sense of anticipation.

What are you going to feel like when he isn't? And, if you give that tripe about not caring or trusting the coaching staff, you're lying. You've been one of Campbell's most ardent supporters, so I don't believe for a second that you're indifferent.

[SonnyJ]

Todd Collins is Garbage

See, this is an idiotic statement. You have no basis for making this claim.



Colt Brennan is unproven

Yes, that is why he is preferable to Campbell. He MIGHT be competent, he may be awful. But we know what Campbell provides and it isn't much.


Either one of them starting and we wouldnt even have been competitive in those games last season.

Another stupid statement with no basis in fact. I have no idea how the Redskins would have fared with either Collins or Brennan, I just find it hard to believe it would have been any worse.


This is just Blind hatred for a QB who has done nothing but what he was told since he was drafted

Funny that you're talking about blind hatred (aside from the fact that claiming blind hatred in regards to Campbell is preposterous as we have been watching him for 50+ games). Beyond that, the part I highlighted is one of Campbell's biggest problems - if a play doesn't go according to his programming, he struggles to cope. Yeah, he does what he's told, but he's shown no indicator of fully comprehending what he's been told. It's just like he says "OK, I'll run the play that way" instead of "Coach, could we go over the purpose of this play and what we're trying to accomplish". He's a RoboQB and displays none of the guile or cunning that you want to see from a QB with a fair amount of experience.


he may be lacking in certain areas but i bet there are a few teams who would want him starting for them

They WANT him as their starter, or they would TAKE him over their current alternative? I'm certain that the latter statement is true, just as I'm certain that the former is not. He may be an upgrade for a few teams in the league. They can have him, just because he isn't as bad as some doesn't mean that I want him to stay as the Redskins QB.

[1972FAN]

Look, if we draft a quarterback early. Jason is just baby sitting. You tender him because you don't want to just let him walk for free. It's common sense.

Exactly, This article did not say anything we already knew, I still agree with you, he's babysitting a year or trade bait because he's restricted, nothing more.

[D'Pablo]

At the end of the 2009 regular season, Mark Sanchez had an aggregate QB rating of 63. Behind a vicious defense and a bruising running game, he took his team to the AFC championship game. Don't tell me that we can't win with Jason Campbell.

[McD5]

At the end of the 2009 regular season, Mark Sanchez had an aggregate QB rating of 63. Behind a vicious defense and a bruising running game, he took his team to the AFC championship game. Don't tell me that we can't win with Jason Campbell.

First, JC has never shown anything compared to what Sanchez showed today.

And that is in only his first season.

He was making passes today that JC can't even visualize mentally.

Secondly, we are never going to the playoffs 4 times in a row with JC.

Once? Like a Rex Grossman run, then bust again? Sure, anything is possible.

But win several years in a row, and be a real team? No chance in hell.

[KokoMike]

Campbell is pathetic for the Redskins. We need to let him move on. It will be good for him. That said, might as well retain him to get something for our # 1, # 3 & # 4 picks.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

personally, i don't mind JC starting another 8 games while the shanahan bargain basement line gells, then sending in clausen to finish out the year strong

we develop our future QB, establish a solid foundation for the line without getting jimmy knocked around too much, and get another high draft pick to continue the building process while knowing we grew into a better team than our record

i wouldn't be opposed to trading campbell for a midrounder either, obviously!

[burgngold fan]

until jc learns to connect with recievers more than 10 yrds down the field on a consistant basis. he will not do well under any coach..

[Warhead36]

Secondly, we are never going to the playoffs 4 times in a row with JC.

Once? Like a Rex Grossman run, then bust again? Sure, anything is possible.

But win several years in a row, and be a real team? No chance in hell.

Agree 100%. The teams that win year in and year out all have franchise QBs. If you don't have a franchise QB in today's NFL you're at a significant disadvantage. Anyone can get lucky and have all the stars align and have one good year but you won't be a perennial contender without a very good if not great QB.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Regardless of how he has played under previous conditions, I seriously believe that both Shanahans will be able to bring Jason as close to his ceiling as he could ever be. If we can focus on drafting and picking up players to fit the Zone Blocking Scheme, Campbell has the potential to do really well. Sure, he won't be perfect. i.e. he will still probably have terrible release time and often miss open receivers. However, I have a feeling that he won't stare them down and he will become much more quick and fluid mentally. It gives us a chance to see what we can really do with him, and regardless he is the best choice for next season.

What is there to lose?!?!

[Newera]

Bradford will make us all forget Jason. And, quite quickly.

[mistertim]

Don't ever use my name in an argument without providing a link or quote to one of my posts. I have zero trust in the accuracy of the interpretation of my posts from a member who is not a man of his word and has reneged on bets made here.

As far as the W/L record he holds the worst in franchise history for a player who played more than 45 games for the Skins.

He also holds the worst record of any Redskins QB to play in more than a season's total of games since 1963, prior to the first ever Super Bowl.

He is 1-15 lifetime against teams finishing with 10 or more wins. The Redskins are 2-14 against those teams since 2007 with Todd Collins starting in both wins.

Since JC was drafted, the Redskins are 14-6 when he plays a half or less and have played 3 playoff games. They are 19-32 when he has played more than a half with zero playoff games.

If the Redskins did not win with other QB's, there might be an argument to be made about the lack of importance of W/L records, but when the team is exponentially more likely to win when he sits than when he plays, it speaks volumes about his worthlessness as an NFL QB.

Though you do realize that you just basically proved the point he was making in the post where he mentioned you, right?

[Veretax]

This isn't really a surprise. It just makes sense, especially going into an uncapped year. All the rookie QBs coming out of college have major question marks, the team needs a major overhaul in several areas, the free agent pool will probably be severely limited in an uncapped year, Campbell can be retained for pennies on the dollar for a starting QB's salary, etc. There's just no logical reason to get rid of Campbell this year.

I wouldn't say they ALL have major question marks. But retaining JC is the smart thing here. They can always let him lose and retract their tender if they change their mind I think.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Assuming we draft a QB, I don't see how Jason can be retained.

Jason has been very blunt about how the idea of being a "caretaker" QB is unacceptable.

The way I figure it....either we commit to JC or we need to move him.:2cents:

[tr1]

I'm not a big Shanahan guy, but I'm fairly certain of his offensive credentials. Retaining Campbell, though, is going to be a clear signal to me that the guy has jumped the shark and is purely looking to cash a paycheck.

And, this my friends, is the new reasoning to bash JC...Shanahan's greed. Because, EVERYONE knows JC is SO bad, the only reason he would be retained is GREED on the part of Shanahan.

Too funny.

[ArmchairRedskin]

We'll keep him for one year because it makes too much sense not to. Unless we get a 1st and 3rd for him, he's gonna be on the team next season. My guess is that we'll draft a QB anyway. It's been reported by a source close to Shanahan that he wants to draft a QB and raise him to maturity in the NFL.

I don't see what all the hubub is about. I thought this was all common knowledge by now.

[tr1]

Agree 100%. The teams that win year in and year out all have franchise QBs. If you don't have a franchise QB in today's NFL you're at a significant disadvantage. Anyone can get lucky and have all the stars align and have one good year but you won't be a perennial contender without a very good if not great QB.

However, if you have a very good qb, and your o-line and running games suck, there's a good chance you won't be a perennial contender either.

It isn't ALL qb play that gets teams to the playoffs. There are 21 other starters on the field during a game.

[tr1]

We'll keep him for one year because it makes too much sense not to. Unless we get a 1st and 3rd for him, he's gonna be on the team next season. My guess is that we'll draft a QB anyway. It's been reported by a source close to Shanahan that he wants to draft a QB and raise him to maturity in the NFL.

I don't see what all the hubub is about. I thought this was all common knowledge by now.

And, what's silly is that no matter one's perspective on JC, this is the conclusion most have come to.

Unless JC comes out of the block with a 7-1 record after 8 games, everyone is going to know it's time for him to move on...regardless of circumstance for or against his retention.

[brandymac27]

Personally, I feel pretty comfortable letting Shanny make the decision. If he chooses to keep Jason, then there must be a pretty good reason for it. If he decides to draft a QB or get rid of him, then I'm ok with that too.

[#98QBKiller]

I wonder what you guys are going to feel like when Campbell is the opening day starter for the Redskins in 2010.

I'll feel terrific as long as Bradford or Clausen is sitting on the bench behind him. Because that will mean we'll only have to tolerate JC's incompetence for a year at most.

[Redskinzfan30]

I don't mind if we keep JC as long as we draft a QB at number 4. It really doesn't matter to me if it's Bradford or Clausen. Clausen is going to be a good QB but has less upside than Bradford. Bradford is more of a risk but has a much bigger upside. JMO.

[bedlamVR]

However, if you have a very good qb, and your o-line and running games suck, there's a good chance you won't be a perennial contender either.

It isn't ALL qb play that gets teams to the playoffs. There are 21 other starters on the field during a game.

I tend to agree with TR1 and do again here, but I then don't get your next point that Campbell has to be 7-1 or it is time to move on . If the rest of the team is still strugling then are you not putting EVERYTHING on Campbell again .

I also think Shanahahan also knows that their is no leyway with a 1st round draft pick . Few get any chance to develop and few have the maturity you need to succeed in the NFL .

Cutler is a fine example . The arm and the skills of a HoF QB but the attitude and the maturity of a spoilt 4 year old . Changing from Plumber to Cutler was a no brainer from the FO point of view in Denver . Plumber was limited in his skill set but the other big difference between the two is attitude and leadership .

Given Cutler is described at best as "childish" and that the division brought about by Cutlers attitude was the reason Shanahan was given the boot ( one of the reasons) from Denver I think character and maturity is going to be a significant factor in any decision .

For that reason alone I see him steering clear of Clausen and Bradford's shoulder may be a concern but I think of the two he would get the longest look . However I also think Shanahan would look to RFA, recouping picks and Okung before he risks taking on another Cutler like attitude ...

[bedlamVR]

I don't mind if we keep JC as long as we draft a QB at number 4. It really doesn't matter to me if it's Bradford or Clausen. Clausen is going to be a good QB but has less upside than Bradford. Bradford is more of a risk but has a much bigger upside. JMO.

I agree with you here and I think if the good doctors report on Bradford is okay and Bradford does well in the interviews then he would be worth a swing at ...

[MartinC]

Don't ever use my name in an argument without providing a link or quote to one of my posts. I have zero trust in the accuracy of the interpretation of my posts from a member who is not a man of his word and has reneged on bets made here.

As far as the W/L record he holds the worst in franchise history for a player who played more than 45 games for the Skins.

He also holds the worst record of any Redskins QB to play in more than a season's total of games since 1963, prior to the first ever Super Bowl.

He is 1-15 lifetime against teams finishing with 10 or more wins. The Redskins are 2-14 against those teams since 2007 with Todd Collins starting in both wins.

Since JC was drafted, the Redskins are 14-6 when he plays a half or less and have played 3 playoff games. They are 19-32 when he has played more than a half with zero playoff games.

If the Redskins did not win with other QB's, there might be an argument to be made about the lack of importance of W/L records, but when the team is exponentially more likely to win when he sits than when he plays, it speaks volumes about his worthlessness as an NFL QB.

You do realise you just slammed a poster for saying you base your case against Campbell on his won loss record with a post which contains nothing but stats about his won loss record ?

At least you do use some evidence on which to base your opinion though I will give you that.

[addicted]

well duh, campbell is responsible for the 6-2 run, however hes not held responsible for being 19-32. lol

Campbell's only success in this league or in college has come when he had a dominant running game. When his college squad went undefeated that was the running game that did that, he had decent numbers but nothing special. When we went 6-2 last year our running back in those first 8 games went over 1000 yards and was great. When the running back went down so did the ship, and we went 2-6 to finish out. This past season the running game was bad pretty much all year and we had to rely on Campbell more then ever and he went 4-12. Jason Campbell is nothing more then a game managing QB. He's more Mark Sanchez then Payton Manning. People say he had his best year last season and statistically he did but what other options did he have? And was his best good enough? 4-12 says no. Jason Campbell will never be a probowl QB as long as I live. Guys like this are a dime a dozen and not worth much when team building. If the Jets had a better QB yesterday they would have been able to compete in the second half with the Colts. Game manager QB's simply do not have the ability to lead fourth quarter comebacks, or consistantly have 2 or more TD games. Jason's been in 6 different offensive schemes in his career and never shown the ability to master any of them. If Jason was a diamond in the rough as many people think he is then he would have excelled in one of those schemes. He hasn't. Jason Campbell should be traded this offseason, peroid.

My wish would be to do the following...
1. Trade Campbell to another team for a second round or third round draft pick
2. In FA we bring in a veteran QB
3. In training camp we have an open competition with Collins, Colt, and the brought in vet QB. The three of them fight it out for starting position. Loser hits the street. Better QB starts, other QB backs him up.
4. In the draft we use our first round pick as a trade and move down to get another 2nd or third rounder. Our first pick goes for a QB, our next three picks (our own second and the two others we just got by trading) go to offensive linemen. The next pick after that we draft the best RB.
5. The rookie QB we take doesn't touch the field in 2010 season and learns from either Colt and the Vet who wins or Todd and the vet who wins the QB challenge.

This would address three picks to the offensive line, our top pick towards the QB of the future, and Jason Campbell.

Giving a one year contract to Jason Campbell doesn't address the fact that he's average (people are excited we have the 15th best QB in the league...is this the best Jason will ever be??) or that he's never mastered a single offense, or that a lame duck QB is bad for your team, or that he's occupying a roster spot that should go to someone with more talent and ability to be a leader and put the game on his shoulders and most importantly, has the ability to win. Lets trade Jason and be done with it. He's not going to turn from a maid into the queen of the ball. He's not that good and never will be. He's good only when the team doesn't need him. Then he's good. This team needs a leader and a franchise QB.

[polywog999]

It is inconceivable that Shanny will not dump Campbell after watching "tapes of everyone of his plays." Jason simply does not have an NFL arm or mind and this will be apparent. There is nothing more to be said on the subject. The only issue is whether it will be Bradford or Clausen.
Not true about his arm. JC makes nice throws.

[Drastik]

Pretty terrible. I like to see my team score points and win games. I expect that to not happen with Campbell as QB. I'd prefer the unknown, at least it'll give me some sense of anticipation.

What are you going to feel like when he isn't? And, if you give that tripe about not caring or trusting the coaching staff, you're lying. You've been one of Campbell's most ardent supporters, so I don't believe for a second that you're indifferent.
I support every player on the team... thats kind of what fans do...

Campbell will be the starting QB atleast in 2010... that much is certain. There are no other options right now.

[That Redskins Fan]

Bradford will make us all forget Jason. And, quite quickly.

if he is there

the rams are watching bradford real close according to st.louis dispatch Braford has started throwin again ans is working out in florida...

[Botched]

I think retaining Campbell is a great idea if Shanahan's goal is to have an unproductive offense.

I can see it now - in the first game, Campbell goes 19/29, 223 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs, and the Redskins lose 21-17. Afterwards, the Shanahans are talking and saying "Our passing stats look pretty decent - about 65%, almost 8 YPA, with no picks and a score. How in the Hell did we only have a FG at halftime, and only 10 points 59:17 seconds into the game?"

We'll just shake our heads in resignation. Campbell is a curse upon this franchise. He's the worst kind of player - one that seems to make otherwise rational people think that there is more there, if only he can get such and such or so and so. Classic Fool's Gold.

In the purely meritorious world of professional football, he's figured out a way to keep getting good reviews despite staggering unproductivity.

This is possibly the most spot-on post about Jason Campbell I've ever seen. I could not have said it any better.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I support every player on the team... thats kind of what fans do...

Campbell will be the starting QB atleast in 2010... that much is certain. There are no other options right now.


and this is why the campbell fan club is so delusional, the fact you arent even willing to fathom that another QB could come in and do better is just asinine.

another QB should be given a chance. campbell has had more than enough chances and its time to let someone else take a shot. honestly, whats the worst that can happen? we go 3-13? oh no! the fact that a QB on a 4-12 team that has shown next to nothing over a 4-5 year period warrants this much loyalty is just nuts.

[That Redskins Fan]

and this is why the campbell fan club is so delusional, the fact you arent even willing to fathom that another QB could come in and do better is just asinine.

another QB should be given a chance. campbell has had more than enough chances and its time to let someone else take a shot. honestly, whats the worst that can happen? we go 3-13? oh no! the fact that a QB on a 4-12 team that has shown next to nothing over a 4-5 year period warrants this much loyalty is just nuts.

that is spot on why does campbell has such support

I have to think it is the person he is cause surely cannot be his play on the field which is up and down, erratic and far from consitent

[ntotoro]

and this is why the campbell fan club is so delusional, the fact you arent even willing to fathom that another QB could come in and do better is just asinine.

It's the patented Campbell Defense and I don't get it. We're going into what is sure to be a rebuilding procedure and the best Defense for Campbell is "Well, who else is better?"

I really don't care. I already know what Campbell's best two attributes are:

1) He can take a hit.
2) He seems like a swell guy.

I can't see any reason to believe he'll make this team a winner.

[thedevilhimself]

and this is why the campbell fan club is so delusional, the fact you arent even willing to fathom that another QB could come in and do better is just asinine.

another QB should be given a chance. campbell has had more than enough chances and its time to let someone else take a shot. honestly, whats the worst that can happen? we go 3-13? oh no! the fact that a QB on a 4-12 team that has shown next to nothing over a 4-5 year period warrants this much loyalty is just nuts.

The Problem is that with the issues on the OL, WR and RB we could spend an awful lot of resources on another 1st round QB still have the issues elsewhere and he could come in and do worse .... a lot worse ... at some point we have to look at other reasons as to why the offense fails other than 1 guy who plays QB ...

[paintrain]

i think the only way we keep campbell is if we take bradford and shanny feels the market is super bare. we'll lose with campbell until the season is officially over, then start bradford and let him finish out the year.

and i cant imagine campbell would even wanna stick around, considering how cry baby he got last year at the ideas of cutler and sanchez, now he'll gladly stick around when we take a QB at #4?

hopefully his agent thinks he'll play better somewhere else.

Ordinarily I ignore your anti Campbell rants but seriously, a cry baby? Regardless of what people thought about Campbell as a QB, he's been universally praised on how he handled the '09 offseason turmoil..

[PorkSkins]

What makes people think JC wants to come back? If another team offers him a higher salary, do we try and match it? I say no, especially if we think he will only be here while we groom a rookie. IMO, it's time to move on beyond the JC and CP era.

[HigSkin]

I'm indifferent to JC but if you're going to keep him, it's because....

1) there are no better options and the tender is cheap
2) you want something for him and can't get it (draft picks)
3) you want him to take the beating while you develop the oline and the "other guy". Whether that "other guy" is drafted or some other option.

It makes sense to consider keeping him if the above is your stategy.

[Buford]

What makes people think JC wants to come back? If another team offers him a higher salary, do we try and match it? I say no, especially if we think he will only be here while we groom a rookie. IMO, it's time to move on beyond the JC and CP era.


Because if you make him a tender offer of just 3.5 mil and another team tries to sign him. We get draft picks. He is probably a RFA.

If they don't. Then we get a vet QB on the cheap for 1 year.

[MartinC]

What makes people think JC wants to come back? If another team offers him a higher salary, do we try and match it? I say no, especially if we think he will only be here while we groom a rookie. IMO, it's time to move on beyond the JC and CP era.

Its a racing certainty that there will not be a new CBA in place before the start of the new league year. If that is the case JC will be a restricted free agent.

That being the case we can offer him a one year tender which will cost us just over $3M. This would then give us the right of first refusal to match any deal offered to him or to get a 1st and 3rd pick in exchange or more realistically negotiate alternate compensation.

Bottom line we will control his destiny one way or another.

The above also applies to Carlos Rogers by the way.

[NewRegime]

This isn't suprising. He is saying they will bring him back for AT LEAST one more season. He will more than likely receive a one year tender.

This doesn't mean they won't draft a QB.

[War Paint]

and this is why the campbell fan club is so delusional, the fact you arent even willing to fathom that another QB could come in and do better is just asinine.

another QB should be given a chance. campbell has had more than enough chances and its time to let someone else take a shot. honestly, whats the worst that can happen? we go 3-13? oh no! the fact that a QB on a 4-12 team that has shown next to nothing over a 4-5 year period warrants this much loyalty is just nuts.

All we need to do is surround JC with 10 probowlers on offense and he would do fine! Right now our whole team is gimping JC. Just keep Campbell around for a few more years. We can stack up a lot of high draft picks due to going 5-11 and such. Perhaps five years down the road, we may finally reach the 10 probowlers on offense and JC will really shine in 2015!

[nittydachamp]

Campbell deserves another shot.

[LaxBuddy21]

What I think would be interesting is if Campbell played on another team and was coming up as a free agent this year, how many people would think we should sign him that want him gone right now? I think his perception outside of this team is better than we perceive him overall. Personally, I think its a no brainer you keep him this year. Maybe he does well this year and becomes what we always hoped he would be? Otherwise, he is a serviceable QB that can keep this team going while we fix some other problems. I do not think he is the long term solution but that doesnt mean we wont luck out and find out he is under the right circumstances. I wouldnt keep him just for that reason or anything because he has had more than enough time but considering our other holes, I just dont see any other option than to keep him and hope for the best.

[NewRegime]

Campbell deserves another shot.

Sure, but somewhere else.

I'm not a JC hater by any means. I am a Redskin fan. And I believe that the time has just come to part ways with JC. I don't believe he can elevate his game to the point where this team can be competitive year in and year out. I think he needs too many things around him for the team to have a lot of success and even then it may not be enough.

He isn't a bad QB, just not a franchise QB.

[bgreg]

I really hope we do. If we can get Okung in the first round to go along with various OLine talent later in the draft, I think JC will SHOCK the world (and 90% of ES) next year.

I don't think Campbell is capable of shocking the world. But hey, I'm all for a pleasant surprise.

[addicted]

It's the patented Campbell Defense and I don't get it. We're going into what is sure to be a rebuilding procedure and the best Defense for Campbell is "Well, who else is better?"

I really don't care. I already know what Campbell's best two attributes are:

1) He can take a hit.
2) He seems like a swell guy.

I can't see any reason to believe he'll make this team a winner.

I see a reason he could be the starter on the team and have a winning record. What about last year? 6-2 with him as the starter. But like I said already, the times when he has been a winning QB were the times his teams didn't rely on him to win games for them and could lean on the running game to pull it out. That is the problem with Jason Campbell. He's shown that in his hands alone the teams a losing team. So defenses just make the offensive attack one deminsional and shut down the running game and puts it on Jason to win. The sad thing about Campbell is given a secondary option role on offense, much like the Jets used this year with Sanchez, he can produce a winning record because he is not careless with the football. The problem is we don't have a dominant rushing attack that the Jets employ and we don't have a number one defense to back that rushing attack up. That leads us to 4-12 records. Jason's a swell guy but this team needs more production from the QB position to have any real chance to compete.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

The Problem is that with the issues on the OL, WR and RB we could spend an awful lot of resources on another 1st round QB still have the issues elsewhere and he could come in and do worse .... a lot worse ... at some point we have to look at other reasons as to why the offense fails other than 1 guy who plays QB ...

But the QB drives the offense if you have a loser in behind center you will not win. I like JC as a person he seems nice but this is business not personel he has to go. We need a QB that will lead this team and JC isn't it. Their will be lineman in the second round that we can take will work.

[That Redskins Fan]

Sean payton said at his new conference the other day the Quaterback gets the 65 to 70 snaps a game either he fly you to a safe landing or he can slam you into the side of a mountain..hmm campbell has been flying the redskins into a mounatin.

[addicted]

The Problem is that with the issues on the OL, WR and RB we could spend an awful lot of resources on another 1st round QB still have the issues elsewhere and he could come in and do worse .... a lot worse ... at some point we have to look at other reasons as to why the offense fails other than 1 guy who plays QB ...

I'm not taking away from the other problems on the team by saying this. We have issues that must be addressed on the offensive line, and running back position. However what I saw last season was simple. Defensese just schemed to put the ball into Jason's hands because they didn't believe he could win if they did. The others teams philosophy was simple, sell out to stop the run, and Jason will lose the game. We went 4-12 against that scheme with Jason as our QB. Two of those 4 wins were backed up by our best showings on Defense (Raiders game Orakpo 4 sacks and we knocked out the other teams QB, Denver game we shut them out second half after the defense knocked out there starting QB) and the other two games were against worse teams then ours (higher picks in the draft). In other words the news is out about stopping this team. Stop the running game and Jason can't win the game himself. Scheming against us has to be harder then this otherwise were just playing into the other guys hands

[MartinC]

He isn't a bad QB, just not a franchise QB.

Agreed. The thing is there are maybe 6 'franchise' QBs in the NFL right now. Maybe.

Thats does not mean we should not roll the dice in the draft if Shanny and Allen think say Bradford could be such a QB. It does mean though that running Campbell out of town just because he is not a franchise type QB MIGHT result in worse results at the QB spot than we would get by keeping him. It MIGHT also result in better results of course.

Assuming we dont want to throw a rookie to the wolves behind an offensive line still being rebuiult Shanny is going to have to review Campbell and the free agent alternatives. If he thinks Campbell is the best option I am fine with that, if he wants to move on and go with (insert name of alternate QB here) I'm fine with that as well.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Ordinarily I ignore your anti Campbell rants but seriously, a cry baby? Regardless of what people thought about Campbell as a QB, he's been universally praised on how he handled the '09 offseason turmoil..


publicly saying that youd request a trade if we brought in another QB is being a crybaby.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I'm not taking away from the other problems on the team by saying this. We have issues that must be addressed on the offensive line, and running back position. However what I saw last season was simple. Defensese just schemed to put the ball into Jason's hands because they didn't believe he could win if they did. The others teams philosophy was simple, sell out to stop the run, and Jason will lose the game. We went 4-12 against that scheme with Jason as our QB. Two of those 4 wins were backed up by our best showings on Defense (Raiders game Orakpo 4 sacks and we knocked out the other teams QB, Denver game we shut them out second half after the defense knocked out there starting QB) and the other two games were against worse teams then ours (higher picks in the draft). In other words the news is out about stopping this team. Stop the running game and Jason can't win the game himself. Scheming against us has to be harder then this otherwise were just playing into the other guys hands

You are so right. JC is not a winner point blank. JC can not put a team on his back and carry them. We need a new QB in DC.

[Botched]

All we need to do is surround JC with 10 probowlers on offense and he would do fine! Right now our whole team is gimping JC. Just keep Campbell around for a few more years. We can stack up a lot of high draft picks due to going 5-11 and such. Perhaps five years down the road, we may finally reach the 10 probowlers on offense and JC will really shine in 2015!

What's sad is that's not far from the truth. Campbell has already played with 5 Pro Bowlers (Moss, Portis, Samuels, Cooley, and Sellers have all been to the PB) and he has only been mediocre, so it likely would take 5 more to make him good.

It's hard to imagine that a QB who has played with so many Pro Bowlers, has never made a PB himself.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

It's the patented Campbell Defense and I don't get it. We're going into what is sure to be a rebuilding procedure and the best Defense for Campbell is "Well, who else is better?"

I really don't care. I already know what Campbell's best two attributes are:

1) He can take a hit.
2) He seems like a swell guy.

I can't see any reason to believe he'll make this team a winner.


its nuts man. "well who else is better?" we'll never know until someone else is given a shot. how every possible QB gets written off before even getting a chance is just beyond me. we just went 4-12 people, how much worse can it get?

some of his supporters act like were an 11-5 team talking about toying with the QB position. we were one of the worst teams in the NFL and were talking about making a switch at a key position that can dictate a lot of offensive output.

[paintrain]

publicly saying that youd request a trade if we brought in another QB is being a crybaby.

Whatever dude.

[Buford]

Bottom line is. If Campbell hits the open market and there isn't a suprise release. He's the top available QB out there.

No rookie especially behind this OL would be able to do anything close to winning. We might even ruin his career playing behind this OL as a rookie.

lets review.

#1. If you take a rookie QB, you be smart and sit him for his 1st year like Carson Palmer or Big Ben/McNabb or whoever took most of the season to see the field.
#2. If you let Campbell go, you still need a Vet who can start. Todd Collins learning another new system? He's a FA, right? Colt Brennan? Last preseason against 3rd and 4th stringers wasn't exactly glowing.
#3. You can keep the guy you know can at least be a bridge to whoever, and keep that person much cheaper than anybody else can. BUT....if somebody is willing to pay more. Then you get picks from them. So, that's an overall win also.

Just making no attempt to resign him is bad business. He's not a diva. He's not a cancer. and while he doesn't have issues, he's also not running the wrong routes, or blocking the wrong protections. He just takes the beatings for his teammates mistakes.

I am interested to see what a team with dicipline would look like across the board. WR's, OL, RB's, and QB.

[ntotoro]

its nuts man. "well who else is better?" we'll never know until someone else is given a shot. how every possible QB gets written off before even getting a chance is just beyond me. we just went 4-12 people, how much worse can it get?

some of his supporters act like were an 11-5 team talking about toying with the QB position. we were one of the worst teams in the NFL and were talking about making a switch at a key position that can dictate a lot of offensive output.

I think that's my big thing right now. It was like the "has he turned a corner" movement after the Bucs game, during which Jason had a comedy of errors... :chair:

We were 4-12 last year. There are a lot of reasons for that, but we already know what Campbell's best attributes are and rallying a team to victory isn't one of them. The defense of Campbell reminds me of a few things. Everyone knows someone who is a complete jackass and thinks everyone around him has a problem except him. That's what the Campbell defense reminds me of. Everyone around him is a problem except him.

RFA the guy and see if anyone bites, but definitely don't make him the main option. Please, please, please make him compete if he winds up staying.

[Buford]

I think that's my big thing right now. It was like the "has he turned a corner" movement after the Bucs game, during which Jason had a comedy of errors... :chair:

We were 4-12 last year. There are a lot of reasons for that, but we already know what Campbell's best attributes are and rallying a team to victory isn't one of them. The defense of Campbell reminds me of a few things. Everyone knows someone who is a complete jackass and thinks everyone around him has a problem except him. That's what the Campbell defense reminds me of. Everyone around him is a problem except him.

RFA the guy and see if anyone bites, but definitely don't make him the main option. Please, please, please make him compete if he winds up staying.


Coach already hinted while talking about Campbell that he would get a chance to compete. I think that's 100% fair. I want training camp to be open comp. for just about every spot on offense.

[Mahons21]

Off the top of my head: SoCalSkins uses Campbell W/L record as his main reason for his opinion that Campbell is the worst QB ever.
-But he cites it as a Jason Campbell led Redskins is... and also mentions how in the same time span other QB's with the team have proved to be much better. That does not mean he is discounting the rest of the team, only that he looks at the impact of having a different QB at the helm. Sort of like the Titans last year, though obviously not to the same extent.




I agree its a dead issue and i try to avoid Campbell based arguments for 2010 but......

If Campbell was 'adequate' during the brief period of time under Zorn's tenure when there was good OL play and a good running game; (without getting into a debate over the quality of his play during 6-2 stretch) doesn't it stand to reason that Jason would have continued to improve as a QB if the OL and running game persisted?
-Yes it does, but with Qb's like Ryan/Rivers/Big Ben and so on... Do you honestly believe a 6th year QB slightly improving is worth the wait?


Imho, becoming a pro-bowl caliber is a process.
It requires good coaching+good OL+decent to good running game+time.
These are the elements under which a QB can reach there potential.
Jason was still a developing QB during the 6-2 stretch and was playing well when all the required elements were in place.
Unfortuneatly bad franchises cannot sustain these elements and couldn't sustain an environment friendly to the growth of a QB.

I don't see how that 6-2 stretch is somehow Campbell's 'ceiling' when it was only a brief glimpse before the OL and running game fell apart...not to mention the coaching aspect.
-What about the years prior? When we had one of the best o-lines in football? When Todd Collins came in and showed us how the offense was supposed to be run. As far as the coaching aspect is concerned, if this many coaches have needed to handcuff Campbell, in my opinion they must have a reason. We keep hearing Campbell is going to be unleashed, but I'm still waiting.


I'm with Fred Jones on this one:
-The problem with that logic is; you would never draft a QB. There's no way in knowing a drafted QB will be better than any QB on our roster, its the draft. Even if we didn't have Campbell, we wouldn't know if the QB we were going to draft was better than Colt/Collins. You take risks in the draft sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't, that doens't mean you can stop taking them. Unless you want to trade all your draft picks for proven FA, but we've seen how that works.

[addicted]

Agreed. The thing is there are maybe 6 'franchise' QBs in the NFL right now. Maybe.

Name them. There are more then 6 franchise QB's in the league today.

[Passizle]

It makes the most sense. Is JC the long term answer? So far, no. Could he do better with a better line and runing game? The stats support that argument. Does it make a ton of sense to keep the guy around as a placeholder until the replacement is ready? Sounds good to me.
So far, Shanny has not had any ringing endorsments for any QB's in the draft thus far. IMO, it is a terrible year to pick QB early. When thinking of first round successes, none of the top propects come close to guys like Rivers, Manning, Big Ben, Rodgers,etc...
I think Shanny will keep JC around (or at leats tender him) to see what he can do, or to see what value they can get. They will go OL/RB early and maybe pick a QB later in the draft.
Whatever happens, the fans need to be patient, because its going to take a few years to fix the major problems with this team.

[Wyvern]

My comments on Reid's article: Reid's article lauded Campbell as having "the best season of his career" ... and setting personal-best marks across the board. This seems odd, because a win-loss record should also be considered as a personal mark, and 4-12 doesn't seem too good to me. Reid's next phrase "...the Redskins are expected to bring him back for at least one more season" would have gotten a red-pencil mark (something like cites?) had he tried to turn it in as a college essay. I don't think Reid could openly say ...'the Redskins expect to bring him back' so he instead used the vague passive case. (Heck, the passive case leaves it so wide open, that maybe it's Campbell or Zorn who expects the Redskins to retain Jason?)

My Lengthy Comment for the Campbell as 2010 Starter Debate:
After reading all this, I'm now convinced that some ES fans want to avoid bringing ANY competition in against Campbell -- they claim Collins is old/garbage, that Colt is brittle/worthless, but they don't want the Skins to draft a high ranked QB, and say that there is no one out in free agency who deserves to be the starter. So they simply want the Skins to re-sign Campbell for several years, to draft and bring in offensive linemen and thus let Campbell 'flourish' under Shanahan's WCO.

Well, that's a somewhat consistent form of logic, ASSUMING you have determined -- from Jason's entire body of work -- that he's the Skins' QB of the future. ...However, does the Skins FO share that opinion? If so, wouldn't Campbell have been locked up to a long-term contract during the 2009 season? Since he wasn't, now Allen has to rely on the CBA expiring, otherwise the Skins could have a bidding war for Campbell's services. True, the FO turmoil probably prevented such a long-term contract being signed, but to date have we heard of any serious contract negotiations with Campbell's agent? So, maybe the Skins FO was NOT convinced that Jason will be their long-term answer.

That leads me to the other school of thought. If you don't believe Campbell is the QB of the future -- then it makes sense that the Skins would be looking for someone to eventually take over the starting QB role from Campbell. With the exception of Jamarcus Russell -- most franchises aren't going to want to trade away their young 'franchise-QBs-in-waiting." So that means the Skins will either have to draft their next candidate franchise QB, or expect Brennan is the guy.

So, I suspect the Skins will probably decide to draft their QB this year (because we can't wait too long for Shanny's guy to develop) taking advantage of our good position in this year's draft. So either a first rounder or a second rounder will be used -- even if this means less early round picks for the O-line.

And because the O-line is in transition, I also expect the rookie QB will likely be groomed, rather than directly thrown into the fray as happened to Flacco and others. And if it's someone like Bradford -- great care will be taken to make sure his injuries are rehabilitated, that he's bulked up enough for NFL-intensity hitting, and that he's versed in the nuances of the NFL, especially in how Shanahan's WCO attacks NFL defenses. I estimate that's going to take at least 1 to 1.5 years. (If that seems long, remember that Shanahan seems intent on installing zone-blocking schemes for the new O-linemen, so that's going to have to be in place before he adds a rookie QB into the mix.)

:poke:THE POINT: So, for me, the real issue is who do the Skins have at QB for the 1-1.5 year transition period? Is it Campbell? Or someone else?

I'm not sure that Jason would be the best answer as the transitional QB. Campbell makes no bones that he doesn't want to be a 'caretaker' QB. Also, it's another new system, and while Campbell now has two years experience of Zorn WCO, his history reveals he tends to needs additional time to learn new systems. Although he's the incumbent starting QB, a lot of Shanahan's 2010 gameplan will be as new to him as it is to any free agent QB or QB we trade for. (For reasons of focus, I'm going to avoid discussing how well Jason might or might not fit the WCO.)

So where might we find the best 'transitional QB'? We have Brennan already signed and no doubt he'll get some looks in pre-season. Collins may or may not have two years left, but it remains to be seen how long he'd hold up over a season. The free agent QBs out there are less than exciting -- and only the Shanahans might be able to judge which of the the FA QBs they think might slot in well, and who'd have around 2 good productive seasons in their tank. ...That leaves trades.

I think rather than trade Campbell for draft-picks, we try a QB "sign and trade" tactic. We offer Campbell in exchange for some team's talented skilled backup QB who isn't too old, and who could guide the Skins through their transition. I could see trying for someone like Rosenfels, Volek, Gradowski, Ramsey, Flynn, Edwards, Clemens, or maybe lower tier backups like Thigpen, Orlovsky, Bouman, or Stanton. (My top preference would be Rosenfels because he's probably more familiar with Kyle Shanahan's system, the ZBS, etc.)

I think we're going to have to consider a trade of QBs, because this is more about needing a "caretaker QB" who could come in to run and develop the new offense, getting the Skins players accustomed to playing within the new schemes. He'd be laying the foundations for the rookie QB we drafted.

Finding the right caretaker would require finding someone who could quickly master the new playbook and who had the best mix of on-field traits like field vision, diagnosing defenses and making adjustments, pocket presence, good range of passes, quick releases, and accuracy. He'd also have to mentally accept that his role was that of a caretaker -- that he'd soon have to give way to the emerging rookie.

Since this "caretaker" QB will be breaking in the rest of his team-mates --- let's pick a good one for the transitional period. From my view, there are a lot of QBs who could fill this transitional role better than Campbell.

[Buford]

Maybe ... but after 5 years Campbell still hasn't learned that on 3rd and 7 ... a "nice" 5 yd. pass doesn't cut it.

Maybe the WR should have been two yards further before making his break. Who runs a short route on 3rd and 7? The QB? Maybe he cut early?

[Passizle]

its nuts man. "well who else is better?" we'll never know until someone else is given a shot. how every possible QB gets written off before even getting a chance is just beyond me. we just went 4-12 people, how much worse can it get?

some of his supporters act like were an 11-5 team talking about toying with the QB position. we were one of the worst teams in the NFL and were talking about making a switch at a key position that can dictate a lot of offensive output.
The problem with this kind of thought BLC, is that you assume the coaches leading this team hhave been mindless retards and cant see the hidden gem we have behind JC at QB.
Do youreally think that all these coaches just gave JC the start when other guys were playing beter in camp or during practices.
Its nice aside to make beleive that he other guys on the roster are just waiting to break out... but you would think if they are better than the current option,they would have had their shot. Simple logic should dictate to you that JC is the best on the current roster... as bad as that may seem.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Maybe the WR should have been two yards further before making his break. Who runs a short route on 3rd and 7? The QB? Maybe he cut early?


well if campbell knows its a poor route then why is he throwing it?

[Mahons21]

Maybe the WR should have been two yards further before making his break. Who runs a short route on 3rd and 7? The QB? Maybe he cut early?
-Or maybe he was the checkdown.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The problem with this kind of thought BLC, is that you assume the coaches leading this team hhave been mindless retards and cant see the hidden gem we have behind JC at QB.
Do youreally think that all these coaches just gave JC the start when other guys were playing beter in camp or during practices.
Its nice aside to make beleive that he other guys on the roster are just waiting to break out... but you would think if they are better than the current option,they would have had their shot. Simple logic should dictate to you that JC is the best on the current roster... as bad as that may seem.


i truly believe zorn refused to bench campbell and i truly believe he only put in collins in that one half against KC to appease the owner and the fans.

right now we have no clue what shanny is gonna do, so were all out here in limbo speculating. however, zorn was 100% committed to campbell no matter how bad he played. any coach in their right mind would have attempted something different with the poor record we had. hell, the raiders switched to career scrub bruce gradkowski and it gave them a lift. i bet if he'd been on this roster not a single campbell fan club member would have given him the time of day.

[Buford]

-Or maybe he was the checkdown.


Why is there a checkdown that doesn't get you the 1st down? That shouldn't even be an option unless the play is designed for the receiver to make a play once he has the ball.

[ntotoro]

well if campbell knows its a poor route then why is he throwing it?

Duh, because the Washington Redskins don't have a single WR who knows how to run a route. Haven't you learned that by now?

[addicted]

Bottom line is. If Campbell hits the open market and there isn't a suprise release. He's the top available QB out there.

Which falls into my hope that we trade Jason for a second round or third round draft pick. If Jason is good then another team would want him correct? In the large picture of rebuilding the team we owe it to ourselves to trade him for a pick and not just release him. If were just going to release him he might as well stay. He isn't worthless.




No rookie especially behind this OL would be able to do anything close to winning. We might even ruin his career playing behind this OL as a rookie.

Completely agree. No rookie behind this line will have any more success then Jason in his first year. The point to consider is if another 5 year player would do better then Jason and I think he would. It takes time to become a good QB, but that doesn't mean you give him forever. We've given Jason long enough in my opinion





lets review.

#1. If you take a rookie QB, you be smart and sit him for his 1st year like Carson Palmer or Big Ben/McNabb or whoever took most of the season to see the field.

Agree completely




#2. If you let Campbell go, you still need a Vet who can start. Todd Collins learning another new system? He's a FA, right? Colt Brennan? Last preseason against 3rd and 4th stringers wasn't exactly glowing.

Wait what? You say in point one that a rookie needs to sit a year and then trash Colt who's been sitting and is a 3rd year player? To me that says you don't believe in Colt's ability. That's fine with me but lets not say all QB's are created equal shall we. What I consider to be the best move is to bring in another veteran, AFTER we trade Jason for a draft pick, and then have a 3 man race for two spots. The top two QB's Shanny feels gives him the best chance to win between Collins, FA Veteran, and Colt Brennan stay. The 3rd roster spot is for our 1st round rookie QB. Odd man out is cut. We have to find out what we have in Colt before giving up on him. If the two Vets play better kick him to the curb, if Colt is the best then make him week one starter. May the best man win the job.





#3. You can keep the guy you know can at least be a bridge to whoever, and keep that person much cheaper than anybody else can. BUT....if somebody is willing to pay more. Then you get picks from them. So, that's an overall win also.

I'm saying that we trade Jason for a second or third round draft pick. Some team out there will give us a third round pick for Jason. If they won't that should set off bells in your head that Jason Campbell sucks and not an NFL starting QB, peroid. We have to use that extra pick to fix the offensive line.





Just making no attempt to resign him is bad business. He's not a diva. He's not a cancer. and while he doesn't have issues, he's also not running the wrong routes, or blocking the wrong protections. He just takes the beatings for his teammates mistakes.

I am interested to see what a team with dicipline would look like across the board. WR's, OL, RB's, and QB.

The team with Jason under Gibbs was not undisciplined. I don't know how you could say it was. The team under Zorn was. Jason's been in 5 systems, never done good in any of them, and shown that without a dominant rushing game in college or the pro's isn't a good winning QB. With a dominant rushing attack Jason's another Mark Sanchez, but Sanchez also had a dominant defense which I don't think we do. We simply can no longer make it so easy to shut us down. Other teams know too well that if you stop the rushing attack we can not win by Jason's arm alone. Jason is not getting any younger. If we trade him for a pick, trade out of #4 for a pick and say both of these picks are second rounders we could easily draft our franchise QB in round one, and three offensive linemen in round 2. That addresses QB and offensive line in the first two rounds of the draft and sets up the team with a young batch of players at key positions. Another skill player in the third round (Shanny's new RB) and we build our offense by only trading one player...Jason Campbell

[Mahons21]

Why is there a checkdown that doesn't get you the 1st down? That shouldn't even be an option unless the play is designed for the receiver to make a play once he has the ball.
-Please tell me you don't honestly believe that on 3rd and 7, all coaches call plays where every single routes runs past 7 yards.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

My comments on Reid's article: Reid's article lauded Campbell as having "the best season of his career" ... and setting personal-best marks across the board. This seems odd, because a win-loss record should also be considered as a personal mark, and 4-12 doesn't seem too good to me.

Keep in mind we had Zero running game all year. In fact, we ranked 27th in rushing. That played a large part of it. Campbell ranked 14th in Passing yards, which isn't all that great. But it doesn't mean that he's one of the worst starters in the league, as some people on ES say... He was ahead of names like Donovan McNabb, Matt Ryan (I know they both were out for a few weeks), Carson Palmer, and Joe Flacco. With a running game to complement him, Campbell is a very serviceable Quarterback.

[addicted]

Maybe the WR should have been two yards further before making his break. Who runs a short route on 3rd and 7? The QB? Maybe he cut early?

I recall hearing during the season our WR's led the league in yards after the catch. I believe the point about this was the play calling for the 3rd and 5 yard routes were run on purpose.

[MartinC]

Name them. There are more then 6 franchise QB's in the league today.

I guess it depends how you define 'franchise QB'. My definition is a QB who has shown he can elevate the talent around him and win despite his teammates and around whom you are building.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers

I think those 4 are in a class apart from the rest with the top 2 probably being in a class of their own.

I take Favre and Warner out as they are either close to or at the end of their careers.

After these 4 you have guys like Carson Palmer, Donovan McNabb, Eli Manning, Ben Rotlesberger, Aaron Rogers and Tony Romo. I would take Big Ben and Rogers out of that list and add them to the franchise QB list. Thats 6.

You could make a case for a couple more maybe.

Who would you add?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Why is there a checkdown that doesn't get you the 1st down? That shouldn't even be an option unless the play is designed for the receiver to make a play once he has the ball.

um, because sometimes shorter routes shift the coverage, leaving other guys open that might be past the sticks?


Duh, because the Washington Redskins don't have a single WR who knows how to run a route. Haven't you learned that by now?

sorry youre right. maybe the oline didnt block properly and it was a bad playcall too? couldnt possibly be something ol' 17 did.

[Mahons21]

Matt Schaub for one, and it doesn't seem fair to discount 2 franchise QB's just because it makes your numers look better.

[addicted]

The problem with this kind of thought BLC, is that you assume the coaches leading this team hhave been mindless retards and cant see the hidden gem we have behind JC at QB.
Do youreally think that all these coaches just gave JC the start when other guys were playing beter in camp or during practices.
Its nice aside to make beleive that he other guys on the roster are just waiting to break out... but you would think if they are better than the current option,they would have had their shot. Simple logic should dictate to you that JC is the best on the current roster... as bad as that may seem.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Politics rule the day my man. How else do you discribe the year that Collins takes a 5-8 team on it's way to 5-9 and out of the playoffs with Campbell under center, and we win 4 straight with another player under center and the offense is more attacking and less conservative with the backup player and before training camp starts the next year the announcement is that Jason Campbell remains the starting QB on the team? Then when were looking for a new head coach, the search is more about who can make Jason Campbell an elite QB and less about who's the best man for job?

We traded away 3 draft picks for Jason Campbell. We screwed ourselves out of situations time and again where we could have had better QB's, namely Ben Rothesberger (2 Superbowl wins already) and Aaron Rogers (number one QB this past year), and look like complete idiots doing so if Jason Campbell doesn't become a franchise QB. Every movement in the past 4 years has been to make Jason into a franchise QB, every move. Snyder wants Jason to succeed more then any other player on the team. Jason would have been handled completely different if we had drafted differently. Politics are why he's the annointed starter on the team. Not ability.

[Drastik]

David Garrard just made the pro-bowl.. with numbers worse than Jason Campbell.. lol.

[Wyvern]

....however, zorn was 100% committed to campbell no matter how bad he played. any coach in their right mind would have attempted something different with the poor record we had. hell, the raiders switched to career scrub bruce gradkowski and it gave them a lift. i bet if he'd been on this roster not a single campbell fan club member would have given him the time of day. As you know, I liked Zorn for his 'stay-the-course' tenacity, but even I tired of how he stuck with Campbell for the entire season. From a purely entertainment perspective, it would have been nice to see how Collins would have performed as a prepared starting QB. But 2009 appears to have been Campbell's evaluation period, and most of us agreed that, fair or not, Zorn's fate was tied to Campbell's emergence as a bonafide franchise QB. That was probably a big factor why Zorn stuck with Jason.

But the biggest surprise was when the season flopped, and after Campbell's performance created more doubt than certainty -- it was Zorn who was sent packing while Campbell remained. ...And now there's talk of Jason being the starter for several more years?? :doh:

As for Gradowski, he may have started out as a scrub -- but he's getting better as he reaches his prime years. He has shown he's got the leadership factor, and seems a good fit for a WCO. I think Gradowski would make an excellent 'caretaker QB' for the Skins while they groom whatever new franchise QB they eventually draft.

...Assuming the Skins decide to draft a franchise QB to replace Campbell. :cool:

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

David Garrard just made the pro-bowl.. with numbers worse than Jason Campbell.. lol.

Lol yes he did, I was gonna mention that. I guess Schaub must be hurt or something... He deserves it the most

**EDIT** Nevermind, Schaub DID make it. way to go!

[addicted]

i truly believe zorn refused to bench campbell and i truly believe he only put in collins in that one half against KC to appease the owner and the fans.

right now we have no clue what shanny is gonna do, so were all out here in limbo speculating. however, zorn was 100% committed to campbell no matter how bad he played. any coach in their right mind would have attempted something different with the poor record we had. hell, the raiders switched to career scrub bruce gradkowski and it gave them a lift. i bet if he'd been on this roster not a single campbell fan club member would have given him the time of day.

I agree with Zorn being committed to Jason but I completely disagree that he put in Collins to appease the owner. I don't think Snyder wanted that. I think Snyder told Zorn who his QB was and demanded he make Jason a franchise QB like Zorn supposidely did with Matt Hasselback but the times when Collins was used it was because our season was looking to be over. Zorn knew if the team didn't get to the playoffs he was out of a job so he put in Collins to try and right the ship the way he did once before. Since Collins didn't provide the spark Zorn went back to Campbell because he thought if Campbell became the franchise QB he might keep his job. It didn't work out with Zorn because the team went 4-12 and Jason didn't become the franchise QB the owner desperately wanted.

[RedskinsTime]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Politics rule the day my man. How else do you discribe the year that Collins takes a 5-8 team on it's way to 5-9 and out of the playoffs with Campbell under center, and we win 4 straight with another player under center and the offense is more attacking and less conservative with the backup player and before training camp starts the next year the announcement is that Jason Campbell remains the starting QB on the team? Then when were looking for a new head coach, the search is more about who can make Jason Campbell an elite QB and less about who's the best man for job?

We traded away 3 draft picks for Jason Campbell. We screwed ourselves out of situations time and again where we could have had better QB's, namely Ben Rothesberger (2 Superbowl wins already) and Aaron Rogers (number one QB this past year), and look like complete idiots doing so if Jason Campbell doesn't become a franchise QB. Every movement in the past 4 years has been to make Jason into a franchise QB, every move. Snyder wants Jason to succeed more then any other player on the team. Jason would have been handled completely different if we had drafted differently. Politics are why he's the annointed starter on the team. Not ability.

So, if Mike Shanahan comes in (a guy with no political connections to JC) and starts him on opening day next year, would you be willing to admit JC is the best candidate for the job currently on our roster?

[Drastik]

Lol yes he did, I was gonna mention that. I guess Schaub must be hurt or something... He deserves it the most

**EDIT** Nevermind, Schaub DID make it. way to go!

We can legitimately say that Jason Campbell is a pro-bowl caliber QB now... LOL.

[TheLongshot]

My comments on Reid's article: Reid's article lauded Campbell as having "the best season of his career" ... and setting personal-best marks across the board. This seems odd, because a win-loss record should also be considered as a personal mark, and 4-12 doesn't seem too good to me. Reid's next phrase "...the Redskins are expected to bring him back for at least one more season" would have gotten a red-pencil mark (something like cites?) had he tried to turn it in as a college essay. I don't think Reid could openly say ...'the Redskins expect to bring him back' so he instead used the vague passive case. (Heck, the passive case leaves it so wide open, that maybe it's Campbell or Zorn who expects the Redskins to retain Jason?)

Last I checked, team record isn't a major statistic for a QB. Unlike MLB pitchers, they aren't majorly responsible for their records, especially with a defense that many times blew the lead that the offense gave them.

Also as a note, Campbell improved despite the fact that the OL was in shambles for most of the year, an inconsistent running game, and the fact that he was getting blown up more than half the time. That is certainly worth something.


After reading all this, I'm now convinced that some ES fans want to avoid bringing ANY competition in against Campbell -- they claim Collins is old/garbage, that Colt is brittle/worthless, but they don't want the Skins to draft a high ranked QB, and say that there is no one out in free agency who deserves to be the starter. So they simply want the Skins to re-sign Campbell for several years, to draft and bring in offensive linemen and thus let Campbell 'flourish' under Shanahan's WCO.

I think most of us who don't want to draft a QB high think that such a move is relatively worthless until the OL improves. I also think that unless a rookie is a Peyton Manning or a Matt Ryan (in that they have proved that they can immediately start), I don't think a rookie is going to be able to beat out Campbell, at least in his first season. I mean, look at Sanchez and Stafford. Looking at stats, neither can touch what Campbell can do right now.

I am not against competition for Campbell, but it also needs to be measured against the needs of the team. Fixing the OL is a higher priority than giving Campbell competition.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

David Garrard just made the pro-bowl.. with numbers worse than Jason Campbell.. lol.


garrard is better than campbell.

[Drastik]

Should I expect you to think differently?

[addicted]

I guess it depends how you define 'franchise QB'. My definition is a QB who has shown he can elevate the talent around him and win despite his teammates and around whom you are building.

Exactly. Franchise to me doesn't necessarily mean "elite". Franchise QB's are guys who the teams they play for are the best option they have and get parts and additions built around them. To me all of these men should be in discussion for franchise QB's but not all belong in an elite QB discussion

Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
Kyle Orton
Carson Palmer
David Garrard
Vince Young
Matt Ryan
Jay Cutler
Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Cassel
Mark Sanchez
Matthew Stafford

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I agree with Zorn being committed to Jason but I completely disagree that he put in Collins to appease the owner. I don't think Snyder wanted that. I think Snyder told Zorn who his QB was and demanded he make Jason a franchise QB like Zorn supposidely did with Matt Hasselback but the times when Collins was used it was because our season was looking to be over. Zorn knew if the team didn't get to the playoffs he was out of a job so he put in Collins to try and right the ship the way he did once before. Since Collins didn't provide the spark Zorn went back to Campbell because he thought if Campbell became the franchise QB he might keep his job. It didn't work out with Zorn because the team went 4-12 and Jason didn't become the franchise QB the owner desperately wanted.


i remember the speculation around the switch. call this what you will but i remember hearing reports that snyder was livid in the owners box, he and vinny left the owners box, reportedly went to the locker room, and then all the sudden collins starts the 2nd half.

again, take that for what you will, call it wild speculation and complete nonsense, but it makes sense to me. pissed off owner who was meddling at the time with a lameduck coach, getting embarrassed at home by a terrible team, all while a head coach refuses to bench a poor QB because of his own ego.

[Drastik]

Exactly. Franchise to me doesn't necessarily mean "elite". Franchise QB's are guys who the teams they play for are the best option they have and get parts and additions built around them. To me all of these men should be in discussion for franchise QB's but not all belong in an elite QB discussion

Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
Kyle Orton
Carson Palmer
David Garrard
Vince Young
Matt Ryan
Jay Cutler
Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Cassel
Mark Sanchez
Matthew Stafford

What qualifies a franchise QB to you? Several of the names on your list are undoubtedly worse than Jason Campbell.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Exactly. Franchise to me doesn't necessarily mean "elite". Franchise QB's are guys who the teams they play for are the best option they have and get parts and additions built around them. To me all of these men should be in discussion for franchise QB's but not all belong in an elite QB discussion

Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
Kyle Orton
Carson Palmer
David Garrard
Vince Young
Matt Ryan
Jay Cutler
Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Cassel
Mark Sanchez
Matthew Stafford

If that is your list of potential franchise QBs, then many people across the NFL would include Campbell as well. I don't believe he's a franchise QB myself, but you've basically listed 2/3 of the starting QBs in the league...many of which played far worse than Campbell this past season.

I think the label of franchise QB should be a bit more discerning.

My list would include:

Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan (just due to age)
Mark Sanchez (just due to age)
Matthew Stafford (just due to age)

[Drastik]

If that is your list of potential franchise QBs, then many people across the NFL would include Campbell as well. I don't believe he's a franchise QB myself, but you've basically listed 2/3 of the starting QBs in the league...many of which played far worse than Campbell this past season.

I think the label of franchise QB should be a bit more discerning.

My list would include:

Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan (just due to age)
Mark Sanchez (just due to age)
Matthew Stafford (just due to age)
This is a list I can agree with....

[addicted]

So, if Mike Shanahan comes in (a guy with no political connections to JC) and starts him on opening day next year, would you be willing to admit JC is the best candidate for the job currently on our roster?

Yes.

People need to see that the old regieme is out. Shanny is not going to be Snyders puppet. If Shanny say Jason's his guy then I will believe him. I don't think he will say that. I believe Jason's days are over in Washington and given the chance we will trade him for a pick.

Gibbs picked Campbell. He screwed up with Jason and needed him to do well otherwise he looked like an idiot. Gibbs sat him for a long as he could to give him a chance. Then when it was apparent that Jason sucked and was not going to be as good as Gibbs thought Gibbs bailed out of town quick. Snyder had invested too much into Campbell to cut ties with him so he made it a priority to have the next coach focus on Campbell first, the team second. Since Zorn failed to make Campbell a franchise QB, Zorn was fired.

Now we have a new day. Allen and Shanny come in after the fall and don't have to deal with Campbell unless they choose to. If Shanny wants Campbell to be his QB that's his decision and says Shanny believes our best chance to win is with Campbell. So in answering your question, yes I will believe that Campbell is not starting because of politics in 2010 but ability. That doesn't mean that it wasn't politics that got him starting for us the last couple of years. I believe it was

[Geneva]

If we keep JC we may as well not even play the games. Let's just sit the year out....

BIG JC HATER BIG BIG.........I don't think we can even get a 4th round draft pick for him.

[RedskinsTime]

double post

[Wyvern]

Keep in mind we had Zero running game all year. In fact, we ranked 27th in rushing. That played a large part of it. Campbell ranked 14th in Passing yards, which isn't all that great. But it doesn't mean that he's one of the worst starters in the league, as some people on ES say... He was ahead of names like Donovan McNabb, Matt Ryan (I know they both were out for a few weeks), Carson Palmer, and Joe Flacco. With a running game to complement him, Campbell is a very serviceable Quarterback.Thanks for reading my lengthy post.

I am not a big proponent of stats, because game context trumps how those stats are racked up. For example, it's possible that Campbell's numbers might have been better percentage wise with a good running game. However his yardage totals and TD totals probably would have dipped if the running game had been clicking. A good running game would have kept games closer and Campbell would have probably not racked up as many yards vs. semi prevent defenses protecting a big lead in the 4th quarter. But that is speculation, isn't it?

The fact is that, personal stats aside, Campbell left a lot to be desired as a QB. The 4-12 record reflects he led very few comebacks, or delivered on crucial 3rd downs. The schedule was one of the easiest in recent memory, and yet he could only lead us to four wins. And considering the fact that two of our wins were against teams whose starting QBs were injured during the game, and the other two were against the Bucs (with a rookie QB's first game) and the Rams -- these were not 'big' wins

From what I saw of Campbell this season, he did improve incrementally in his mechanics -- but I wouldn't consider he had a good season. Just a season with conditions that led to big personal numbers for Jason, by rewarding his risk-averse style of play with yards and good stats but not wins.

EXAMPLE: Campbell's last pass in the Dallas shut out of the Skins, it still lingers as a bad memory of Jason. On 4th down, in the waning seconds of the game -- and we're trying to avoid a shutout to our hated rival; but Campbell doesn't even TRY for down-field strike that could lead to any kind points to avoid the goose-egg-- rather, Campbell runs around a bit and then sails a checkdown sideline pass high and out of bounds to a receiver who was well behind the desired yardage needed for a first down. Jason saved himself the INT, but he bailed against a hated rival. That's not a great "personal moment" ---but you'd never see it in the stats.

[zskins]

IF none of you are aware of this now you will be. JC DOES NOT want to be a Redskins. When he was asked on the radio couple of weeks ago if he wants to be a Redskins next year he totally side stepped the issue and didn't say YES I want to be a Redskins. Even though Joey T. said he wants him to be here!

So you see he doesn't want to be here. Just let him go.

[Skins93077]

if shanahan can interest him to stay then so be it. i can live with him for 1 more year. however, if we can trade him or package him for another 1st to address a position of need like ot, nt then go for it.

[MartinC]

Matt Schaub for one, and it doesn't seem fair to discount 2 franchise QB's just because it makes your numers look better.

Farve and Warner are almost certain to retire so they are not really options for next year.

Personally I don't see Schaub in the franchise category.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Thanks for reading my lengthy post....
From what I saw of Campbell this season, he did improve incrementally in his mechanics -- but I wouldn't consider he had a good season. Just a season with conditions that led to big personal numbers for Jason, by rewarding his risk-averse style of play with yards and good stats but not wins.

Ha, no problem.

His mechanics do look way better, but not in every game. Look at his fluidity in the Saints game, he looked better than Brees out there. Brees hit his receivers when they were wide open. Campbell, on the other hand, had to find receivers in coverage.

You're right about the comebacks, he failed numerous times when a comeback was highly possible (2 minute drives down by 7 or less and whatnot). I believe he was better at this when Gibbs was coach, which brings back the issue of play calling. We know it was crap. Could we still make something out of it? yes. but it didn't help matters. This also goes for the last play of the Dallas game you were talking about. I doubt the coaching staff nor the receivers put very much effort into that play. Also not saying Campbell had nothing to do with it, but its not all on him.

[addicted]

I think the label of franchise QB should be a bit more discerning.

My list would include:

You left off

Joe Flacco
Kyle Orton
Carson Palmer
David Garrard
Vince Young
Jay Cutler
Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Cassel


Flacco has played in the league for 2 seasons and won playoff games in each. I think he deserves franchise status now

Orton was traded from one team to another who gave up Jay Cutler. Both of these two teams are committed to these guys and believe both can lead there teams to the playoffs.

Carson Palmer if you asked the Bengals would say is there Franchise QB for the future barring any other injuries

Vince Young is in the Tennessee owners mind his best option at QB and the franchise guy there. Jeff Fisher took a long time to come around but after the way Young played this year would tell you he is a franchise QB as well

Hasselback made the list, while McNabb didn't to me because the word out of Seattle is Hasselback is still the franchise QB there and remaining that way next year. McNabb on the other hand is on his last year of his contract and it remains seen if he is in the Eagles plans as of now. Both players are old. Both players could be left off a franchise QB list. Both players are tweeners to me in this discussion so could go either way.

Matt Cassel is very much a franchise QB. He was traded to a rebuilding Chiefs team last year and given a huge contract. The assembled coaches around him are familiar with his ability.


Franchise QB to me says guys who's teams are committed to that the team believes has it's answer at QB for the future and not likely to go out and draft a QB or trade for one for a couple of years (injury's aside). Franchise QB's doesn't mean "good/great/probowler/all pro", thats a talk for "good/great/probowler/all pro" QB discussions. Franchise QB's have the word Franchise in front of it. That to me says which QB's out there have the Franchise's trust in. It's very possible for a non franchise QB like Campbell to be better and have more ability then a franchise QB. A QB without a home can not be a franchise QB. A bad QB can be for a time a teams Franchise QB much like Jason Campbell was but after playing poorly can be moved to the non franchise QB list. If a team has no plans for QB competition and feel they are set with a guy then he is there franchise QB. All of these men to me are franchise QB's because there teams are set with them. Old dudes like Warner, Bulger, Farve who are not in a three year plan for there teams or QB's who's current teams aren't convinced in them like Jason Campbell who likely won't be on the team in 3 years aren't franchise QB's to me.

You guys are saying in order to be a franchise QB the player must be good. I say the term franchise QB means that the QB should be looked at with at least three years playing as the starter in mind to be a franchise QB.

[Passizle]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Politics rule the day my man. How else do you discribe the year that Collins takes a 5-8 team on it's way to 5-9 and out of the playoffs with Campbell under center, and we win 4 straight with another player under center and the offense is more attacking and less conservative with the backup player and before training camp starts the next year the announcement is that Jason Campbell remains the starting QB on the team? Then when were looking for a new head coach, the search is more about who can make Jason Campbell an elite QB and less about who's the best man for job?

We traded away 3 draft picks for Jason Campbell. We screwed ourselves out of situations time and again where we could have had better QB's, namely Ben Rothesberger (2 Superbowl wins already) and Aaron Rogers (number one QB this past year), and look like complete idiots doing so if Jason Campbell doesn't become a franchise QB. Every movement in the past 4 years has been to make Jason into a franchise QB, every move. Snyder wants Jason to succeed more then any other player on the team. Jason would have been handled completely different if we had drafted differently. Politics are why he's the annointed starter on the team. Not ability.
Im not wrong about an opinion. To assume that the run was all about Collins has been pretty debunked already. I wont get too into it, but look at the PPG,yards, etc... production before and after by the offense.
Then look at the YA, PA and the difference in defense.
Not to tke anything away from the run, I can agree that Collins was a boost. But he was not the sole reason for the run.

[addicted]

IF non of you aware of this now you will be. JC DOES NOT want to be a Redskins. When he was asked on the radio couple of weeks ago if he wants to be a Redskins next year he totally side stepped the issue and didn't say YES I want to be a Redskins.

So you see he doesn't want to be here. Just let him go.

completely out of the question. Even if he doesn't want to be here he has value to us. We should trade him for a draft pick but bottom line we own his rights and that means wether he likes it or not he's staying. For the record I don't want him here either. But that doesn't change the fact even if all we used him for was to be a backup his contract demands that we do it.

[KokoMike]

IF non of you aware of this now you will be. JC DOES NOT want to be a Redskins. When he was asked on the radio couple of weeks ago if he wants to be a Redskins next year he totally side stepped the issue and didn't say YES I want to be a Redskins.

So you see he doesn't want to be here. Just let him go.

I really do agree with this. I don't think his heart has been in it at all. He has never had that edge that comes with a higher level of commitment.

For his well being and future, letting him go to some other team would be the best thing for him. (edited comment: I don't mean letting him go for free.)

[TheLongshot]

IF non of you aware of this now you will be. JC DOES NOT want to be a Redskins. When he was asked on the radio couple of weeks ago if he wants to be a Redskins next year he totally side stepped the issue and didn't say YES I want to be a Redskins.

So you see he doesn't want to be here. Just let him go.

Considering that the whole coaching staff is changing again, wouldn't you want to step back and see what the new coaching staff has planned for you before committing to the team? That's what Campbell's position is right now. He doesn't know how much the new regime really wants him to be here and this is the time where he has a chance to check out his options.

[wvtbred]

IF non of you aware of this now you will be. JC DOES NOT want to be a Redskins. When he was asked on the radio couple of weeks ago if he wants to be a Redskins next year he totally side stepped the issue and didn't say YES I want to be a Redskins.

So you see he doesn't want to be here. Just let him go.

I believe this is connected to the fact he doesn't want open competition at the QB spot. I really hope it's true so we can all move on.

[MartinC]

You guys are saying in order to be a franchise QB the player must be good. I say the term franchise QB means that the QB should be looked at with at least three years playing as the starter in mind to be a franchise QB.

If you define a franchise QB as someone who can elevate the level of play around him and whom you are building around on more than hope then yeah, you bet I'm saying said QB should be demonstrably good beyond reasoned debate! Jyst hanging on and starting for 3 or 4 years a la Jason Campbell does NOT make you a franchise QB in my opinion.

Do you REALLY think David Garrard is a franchise QB? Kyle Orton?

Steve Young was a franchise QB with the 49ers back in the day the Titans are still praying Vince Young can develop into a franchise QB - he is not close yet in my opinion.

Joe Flacco might develop into a franchise QB but right now do you really think he elevates the play of those around him on offense? I see him being asked to manage games with a strong running game and a defense which creates turnovers and scoring opportunities.

It does depend on definition but my point is that what I would call a true franchise QB, a guy who drags the offense on his back and who makes 3rd and 4th string receivers look like Jery Rice on steriods are very few and far between.

If you don't have one - and we don't - then you should keep looking and if you think you have a chance to get one roll the dice. The Bears did that with Cutler last year and so far they have crapped out. We might roll the dice in the draft this year. In the meantime though sometimes the least worst option is what you are left with.

[skinsmania123]

This is not a simple answer. We have had repeated injuries on our OL for years. Not just this year. We have constantly rotated players in and out and resorted ultimately to players with O experience. It was not a matter of "coaching up" the O line or Buges would have been able to do so. If people think for a moment that Sanchez would have thrived with a beat up, non-productive O line..I say dream on.

I am still not 100% convinced that Campbell can't play in the NFL as a starter with a good O line. The playoffs when you view the teams in there this year offered sound consistent protection for their QB's. I mean I saw that this weekend for Sanchez, Manning and Brees. When Farve's protection broke down, he took some major hits that in my opinion led to rushed throws and an ill advised pass at the end that sealed the game for the Saints. A QB needs protection and time to make a read.

We have so many issues that I would like to focus more on our OL; focus on getting a decent CB. I want Smoot and Rogers released. Unfortunately we payed way too much for Hall. Focus on teaching some of our D players to tackle; Landry has good skills but he has become lost out there. He needs good coaching...and he needs to be moved back to his natural position.

Just my two cents.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

This is not a simple answer.

that pretty much sums it up. our team was so terrible last year that blaming any one part of it in particular is ridiculous.

[ntotoro]

that pretty much sums it up. our team was so terrible last year that blaming any one part of it in particular is ridiculous.

I have no problem blaming all of them and feel the starting QB should be among the areas of replacement.

[Wyvern]

Last I checked, team record isn't a major statistic for a QB. Unlike MLB pitchers, they aren't majorly responsible for their records, especially with a defense that many times blew the lead that the offense gave them.It seems records carry more weight -- and considering the important role that QBs play in determining a team's fate -- are appropriate to consider in assessing personal performance, especially for the leader of the offense. Remember too that defenses blow leads when they get tired in the 4th quarter -- oftentimes the result when an offense repeatedly fails to sustain drives. Also, there were a lot of games when the defense held opponents to low scores, in those cases do we only blame Zorn for the anemic offensive production?

A 4-12 year -- which included a loss to Detroit, a near loss to the Rams, a dismal performance against Kansas City, a blanking by Dallas, and the entire coaching staff being overhauled --can't be considered a "banner" year for Campbell, because some of it was influenced by his execution. ...It's not all about stats.


Also as a note, Campbell improved despite the fact that the OL was in shambles for most of the year, an inconsistent running game, and the fact that he was getting blown up more than half the time. That is certainly worth something.Agreed. Under Zorn he improved his mechanics slightly, and even almost figured out how to slide (somewhat) towards the end of the season. He improved incrementally in passing, although his 'touch passes' still left a lot to be desired. His checkdowns improved, although I thought his field vision and decisions were still spotty.

That said, it's really hard to tell how much Campbell really improved. Because if he wasn't running for his life, he was playing like he heard footsteps. But a big red flag for me, was how he still didn't make the big step to elevating his game during crunch-time moments. You can inspire your teammate to play harder if they believe they have hope. (And the Skins could be boosted to higher level play. I saw it once in the Denver game, after the Devin Thomas uber-effort run after the catch-- the team got on a roll and Denver sagged.) Now Jason showed Ramsey-like toughness in handling all the defenders' beatings, but that's a different kind of 'inspiration.'


I think most of us who don't want to draft a QB high think that such a move is relatively worthless until the OL improves. I also think that unless a rookie is a Peyton Manning or a Matt Ryan (in that they have proved that they can immediately start), I don't think a rookie is going to be able to beat out Campbell, at least in his first season. I mean, look at Sanchez and Stafford. Looking at stats, neither can touch what Campbell can do right now.

I am not against competition for Campbell, but it also needs to be measured against the needs of the team. Fixing the OL is a higher priority than giving Campbell competition. So, if I have it right, your position is that you don't want a competition for Campbell .. now ...until the OL situation is resolved. Whereas, I don't see this issue as competition for Campbell -- I see it as replacing the QB as part of rebuilding strategy that requires an overhaul of the offense, and this strategy includes linemen.

However it's in the priorities we differ because I think we need to invest now in a good franchise level QB in the future. (Even though there are exceptions, it takes longer to develop a QB than it does an offensive lineman.) We're going to need good linemen too, but waiting for next year to draft our QB means it's that much longer before we actually develop our franchise QB.

Even if the rookie sits for 1-1.5 years, we'll still need to draft one this year. And that will give us time to find the right linemen to install for when the next Skins QB makes his debut. Transitions are not pretty, but after Vinny -- this is what is now needed.

I don't see a future for Campbell with the Skins. I'm in the camp that believes that Campbell is not the long-term answer for the Skins at QB. More importantly, I don't believe that Campbell will settle for a 'caretaker' role -- so we're going to need to get value for Campbell while we can. And, as my lengthy post earlier indicated, I think there are other possibe options for finding a better caretaker to handle the transition.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

This is not a simple answer. We have had repeated injuries on our OL for years. Not just this year. We have constantly rotated players in and out and resorted ultimately to players with O experience. It was not a matter of "coaching up" the O line or Buges would have been able to do so. If people think for a moment that Sanchez would have thrived with a beat up, non-productive O line..I say dream on.

I am still not 100% convinced that Campbell can't play in the NFL as a starter with a good O line. The playoffs when you view the teams in there this year offered sound consistent protection for their QB's. I mean I saw that this weekend for Sanchez, Manning and Brees. When Farve's protection broke down, he took some major hits that in my opinion led to rushed throws and an ill advised pass at the end that sealed the game for the Saints. A QB needs protection and time to make a read.

We have so many issues that I would like to focus more on our OL; focus on getting a decent CB. I want Smoot and Rogers released. Unfortunately we payed way too much for Hall. Focus on teaching some of our D players to tackle; Landry has good skills but he has become lost out there. He needs good coaching...and he needs to be moved back to his natural position.

Just my two cents.

I'm curious, what QB in the NFL right now can't play behind a very good O-line? Excluding D. Russell.

We saw yesterday P. Manning carve up the top defense in the league with 2 rookie backup recievers in the lineup, still think the problem with JC is his receivers?

Our receiving core is every bit as good, and IMO better than the Saints, and the Colts, yet we won 4 games against the easiest schedule in history, JC is at the very heart of our problems! Not only is he inaccurate, unaware in the pocket, and a day late and a dollar short with his reads, he has no ability whatsoever to make pre snap reads and adjustments which can be a huge help to a struggling O-line. Can the bar be set any lower for JC? At this point someone in a wheel chair could clear that bar!

[MartinC]

I have no problem blaming all of them and feel the starting QB should be among the areas of replacement.
I pretty much agree with you. The question to me is one of order.

If, after evaluation of needs and what is available on the OLine and at QB via free agency and the draft Shanny decides Jason is our best option for next year I'm fine with that.

I don't expect Jason to start playing like Peyton Manning but if he can provide a holding role while we over haul the OLine and groom a rookie - great. If they decide there are better options via free agency or to just start the rookie also fine.

We have a new regime with a fresh pair of eyes. It will be interesting, and revealing, to see what they decide.

[NewRegime]

I don't mind retaining JC for one year while they rebuild the line and a rookie QB can sit and learn. What I am NOT looking forward to is the dicussion in season, unless JC fails miserably, that JC should be the long term answer.

Unless JC is able to start pulling come from behind drives, making big plays, becoming more accurate, and reading defenses better, he won't do enough to make the staff believe he is worth keeping.

If they wanted him, he would get a long term deal. He will begone after next season at the latest.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I have no problem blaming all of them and feel the starting QB should be among the areas of replacement.


right.

you wont see me claiming we need to keep X Y and Z guys on offense. if shanny wants to fire all of them, go for it. but why somehow the QB position is safe on a bottom dwelling offense is a mystery.

[ntotoro]

right.

you wont see me claiming we need to keep X Y and Z guys on offense. if shanny wants to fire all of them, go for it. but why somehow the QB position is safe on a bottom dwelling offense is a mystery.

That's the main thing I don't get. We know the line needs work, so I have no problem with that. We know we need a new RB. BAM! There's another. So why do people seem to think the QB position absolutely has to wait for everything else around it to be built... ? I think how bad this team has been has caused a few to think we absolutely cannot be better than 4-12 with a rookie QB for some reason.

[KokoMike]

Campbell is not a playmaker. If the argument is to keep him and build around him, it will be another horrible year in 2010.

Campbell is so predictable, it is hard to watch, and since the NFL is entertainment, Campbell is a factor in the Redskins losing fans. It is simple business.

We really do need a playmaker at the QB position, not just somebody who is part of a horrible offense.

Having a QB who will take full responsibility will be refreshing, too. It has been a while.

[SKINchiefer]

I really hope we do. If we can get Okung in the first round to go along with various OLine talent later in the draft, I think JC will SHOCK the world (and 90% of ES) next year.

+1

I think he is definitely capable of doing so. Campbell is just missing the fact that he couldn't win games consistently during the 2-minute drill on his resume. Once he has consistency in front of him, we will see the JC that we expect to see. With the coaches we have now, Campbell will inevitably become a better QB. If not, say hello to free agency.

[F Landry]

I think it will be hilarious when Jason Campbell makes the pro-bowl due to multiple cop outs by the remaining starting QBs able to participate in the game (namely Brett Favre).

If Garrard can, why can't Campbell? It was hinted at on PFT. Not saying I think he deserves the nod, just saying it is actually a realistic possibility right now.

BAHAHAHAHAHA

[Passizle]

You left off

Joe Flacco
Kyle Orton
Carson Palmer
David Garrard
Vince Young
Jay Cutler
Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Cassel


Flacco has played in the league for 2 seasons and won playoff games in each. I think he deserves franchise status now

Orton was traded from one team to another who gave up Jay Cutler. Both of these two teams are committed to these guys and believe both can lead there teams to the playoffs.

Carson Palmer if you asked the Bengals would say is there Franchise QB for the future barring any other injuries

Vince Young is in the Tennessee owners mind his best option at QB and the franchise guy there. Jeff Fisher took a long time to come around but after the way Young played this year would tell you he is a franchise QB as well

Hasselback made the list, while McNabb didn't to me because the word out of Seattle is Hasselback is still the franchise QB there and remaining that way next year. McNabb on the other hand is on his last year of his contract and it remains seen if he is in the Eagles plans as of now. Both players are old. Both players could be left off a franchise QB list. Both players are tweeners to me in this discussion so could go either way.

Matt Cassel is very much a franchise QB. He was traded to a rebuilding Chiefs team last year and given a huge contract. The assembled coaches around him are familiar with his ability.


Franchise QB to me says guys who's teams are committed to that the team believes has it's answer at QB for the future and not likely to go out and draft a QB or trade for one for a couple of years (injury's aside). Franchise QB's doesn't mean "good/great/probowler/all pro", thats a talk for "good/great/probowler/all pro" QB discussions. Franchise QB's have the word Franchise in front of it. That to me says which QB's out there have the Franchise's trust in. It's very possible for a non franchise QB like Campbell to be better and have more ability then a franchise QB. A QB without a home can not be a franchise QB. A bad QB can be for a time a teams Franchise QB much like Jason Campbell was but after playing poorly can be moved to the non franchise QB list. If a team has no plans for QB competition and feel they are set with a guy then he is there franchise QB. All of these men to me are franchise QB's because there teams are set with them. Old dudes like Warner, Bulger, Farve who are not in a three year plan for there teams or QB's who's current teams aren't convinced in them like Jason Campbell who likely won't be on the team in 3 years aren't franchise QB's to me.

You guys are saying in order to be a franchise QB the player must be good. I say the term franchise QB means that the QB should be looked at with at least three years playing as the starter in mind to be a franchise QB.
FWIW... Flacco did not "win" any playoffs games this year. Did you even look at his playoff statistics?
All the rest on that list have questin marks. To call them franchise is like calling JC franchise. Just because they play on the team year after year does not make them franchise material...

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Well the JC haters are throwing furniture in their houses right now.

I've already broken two lamps.

[RedskinsTime]

Campbell is not a playmaker. If the argument is to keep him and build around him, it will be another horrible year in 2010.

I don't think that's ever been the argument. The argument has been over who to replace first- offensive line or quarterback. The fact of the matter is that the entire offense, minus the receiving corps, needs an overhaul. But there is a contingent of people on this board that have their respective egos so wrapped up in this JC debate that they just want to see him gone immediately, regardless if its whats best for the team. I've argued that JC should be retained for no other reason than to serve as a punching bag until the offensive line is rebuilt, so that any rookie we draft won't get hurt. But, some people won't even concede that idea, because JC is still with the Redskins.

It's really hard to take someone seriously that counters that argument with "I'd rather sign Chris Simms and use him as a punching bag." Ridiculous.

[Pacho]

I don't mean to be disrespectful (take this as a fellow fan giving you a hard time) but...

All the people calling for Campbell to be let go are...insane!

The whole 'a QB should motivate and elevate his teammates' argument is nonsensical. IMO, if you're at this level and still "need" someone to "motivate" you to perform better...you're sorry and pathetic. Just my opinion.

I did a little comparison of JC and John Elway through the first five years of their careers, JC is comparable to Elway.

Would anyone be upset if JC had a comparable career to Elway?

The bottom line, IMO, is that any QB who hasn't been on a SuperBowl winning team is going to be considered replaceable.

Look at Favre.

The way I remember it is that he was always considered prone to throwing pics, nothing changed except that he won a SuperBowl...the next thing you know he's considered one of the greatest ever. Why? True he does have a lot of records: including most INT's thrown

Instead of crying for the QB's head lets fix the team around him and let the man have a career.

I have no idea where this notion that rookie QB's are the answer came from.

Finally, to address the 'draft a rookie QB and let him learn the system' idea...that would only make sense if there was some type of assurance/expectation that the same coach/system would be around for three or more years (remember this is the Snyder owned skins...consistency doesn't seem to be one of his strong points)...

This was the biggest problem I had with Joe 'I ruined a frachise' Gibbs drafting (bleep)ing JC in the first round*...I knew for a fact that he wouldn't be here to see it through.

If the Redskins draft a QB in the upcoming draft...mark my words...it'll be another 10 years before the team is competitive again.

*drafting JC was assinine IMO because you already had a first round QB under contract...the team went 36-44 in the five years since drafting Campbell...personally I think they could've done just as bad (probably would've done better) with Ramsey and used the '05 first round pick on someone else...

[War Paint]

Campbell is so predictable, it is hard to watch, and since the NFL is entertainment, Campbell is a factor in the Redskins losing fans. It is simple business.

Having a QB who will take full responsibility will be refreshing, too. It has been a while.

This is a great point. Campbell is just not enjoyable to watch. The purpose of football and sports in general is entertainment. If we draft a QB who needs to ride the bench for a year, I'd rather see Collins or Brennan start and play a stop gap role, just to see something different. I just can't bear watching another year of JC. It's just a snoozefest watching a JC led offense. I actually found myself at times during the season flipping over to other games for a brief period because I was getting bored out of my mind watching our offense.

[zskins]

completely out of the question. Even if he doesn't want to be here he has value to us. We should trade him for a draft pick but bottom line we own his rights and that means wether he likes it or not he's staying. For the record I don't want him here either. But that doesn't change the fact even if all we used him for was to be a backup his contract demands that we do it.

What was interesting to me was that Joey T. said well I want you to be here after he totally side stepped his question.

I guess what I wanted to hear from JC was: YES I want to be here next year BUT it will depend on what the new coaches want and how things work out between my agent and the team. Which he said but didn't say YES I want to be here. That to me is: he really doesn't want to be here but will stay if things work out. Personally I don't want a wishy-washy QB.

Like I tell my employees: Don't work for me if you don't like being here. Don't be here for the sake of it or for the money because you will never do your best if you really don't like being here in the first place.

[TheLongshot]

It seems records carry more weight -- and considering the important role that QBs play in determining a team's fate -- are appropriate to consider in assessing personal performance, especially for the leader of the offense. Remember too that defenses blow leads when they get tired in the 4th quarter -- oftentimes the result when an offense repeatedly fails to sustain drives. Also, there were a lot of games when the defense held opponents to low scores, in those cases do we only blame Zorn for the anemic offensive production?

Course, that's ignoring that the defense many times couldn't get themselves off the field early in games many times last season. In some cases, they caused themselves to get worn out because they couldn't make that play.


A 4-12 year -- which included a loss to Detroit, a near loss to the Rams, a dismal performance against Kansas City, a blanking by Dallas, and the entire coaching staff being overhauled --can't be considered a "banner" year for Campbell, because some of it was influenced by his execution. ...It's not all about stats.

It also isn't all about Campbell either. Just about every aspect of this team had issues at one time or another. Laying the bulk of it on Campbell, who had a solid season, isn't a true reflection of the problems with this team.


Agreed. Under Zorn he improved his mechanics slightly, and even almost figured out how to slide (somewhat) towards the end of the season. He improved incrementally in passing, although his 'touch passes' still left a lot to be desired. His checkdowns improved, although I thought his field vision and decisions were still spotty.

That said, it's really hard to tell how much Campbell really improved. Because if he wasn't running for his life, he was playing like he heard footsteps. But a big red flag for me, was how he still didn't make the big step to elevating his game during crunch-time moments. You can inspire your teammate to play harder if they believe they have hope. (And the Skins could be boosted to higher level play. I saw it once in the Denver game, after the Devin Thomas uber-effort run after the catch-- the team got on a roll and Denver sagged.) Now Jason showed Ramsey-like toughness in handling all the defenders' beatings, but that's a different kind of 'inspiration.'

It was pretty obvious that when we faced a team with a good pass rush, when they knew that we had to pass, that there was no way the line was going to be able to block them. You can "inspire" all you want, but if the players just can't do it, they can't do it.

Campbell does have his limitations, but so do most QBs in the NFL. For most teams, it is all about maximizing strengths and minimizing the times where the weaknesses show. Unfortunately, when you have no OL, it is hard to put any QB into a good position.


So, if I have it right, your position is that you don't want a competition for Campbell .. now ...until the OL situation is resolved. Whereas, I don't see this issue as competition for Campbell -- I see it as replacing the QB as part of rebuilding strategy that requires an overhaul of the offense, and this strategy includes linemen.

However it's in the priorities we differ because I think we need to invest now in a good franchise level QB in the future. (Even though there are exceptions, it takes longer to develop a QB than it does an offensive lineman.) We're going to need good linemen too, but waiting for next year to draft our QB means it's that much longer before we actually develop our franchise QB.

Even if the rookie sits for 1-1.5 years, we'll still need to draft one this year. And that will give us time to find the right linemen to install for when the next Skins QB makes his debut. Transitions are not pretty, but after Vinny -- this is what is now needed.

The problem is, you use the word "competition". As I pointed out with Sanchez and Stafford, neither came close to having a better season than Campbell. Campbell is also better than the guys they competed against (Culpepper, Clemmons). So, no, I don't believe that the Skins can bring in someone next year to "compete" because Campbell is going to be the best guy available.

I never said that I didn't believe in drafting a QB. That being said, I don't believe that you need to draft a guy in the 1st round, particularly if you don't plan on playing him right away. The NFC Championship game featured two QBs who were 2nd round picks who are considered a couple of the best pure passers in the game right now.


I don't see a future for Campbell with the Skins. I'm in the camp that believes that Campbell is not the long-term answer for the Skins at QB. More importantly, I don't believe that Campbell will settle for a 'caretaker' role -- so we're going to need to get value for Campbell while we can. And, as my lengthy post earlier indicated, I think there are other possibe options for finding a better caretaker to handle the transition.

Well, if Campbell ends up being a RFA, he won't have much of a choice will he? I also think he has more value on our team than off. As I said before, the only time you should trade players is if you have no plans for them. So far, it seems like the coaching staff DOES want to have plans for Campbell. The question is, does Campbell still want plans with us? That will be up to the coaching staff and what other offers there are out there.

One thing I'm pretty sure of: if Campbell is on the roster, he will start. It will also be his job to lose for at least the remainder of the season (if it is a one year tender.)

[TheLongshot]

Retaining Campbell for another year will guarantee another losing season and last place in the NFCEast. Shanny will not abide by this. It makes no sense to coddle a lame duck when you are in a cellar dweller mode. It makes much more sense to Draft a top-rated QB ... especially if you own a top 5 spot ... and give him the ball. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain in terms of long term development a la Sanchez. for these reasons I think the Skins will try to trade Campbell for virtually any compensation and failing that ... just give him his release. Other teams in the NFL know this so that is what probably will happen.

Sanchez had a far worse season than Campbell, yet that poor play didn't sink the Jets. I think some people put far too much on the QB position as far as success goes. It is a team game, and the QB is one member of that team.

[#98QBKiller]

It is a team game, and the QB is one member of that team.

The most important member of that team.

[corn_beef_n_rice]

i think that is really the only option at this point

payton manning coulld be back there and i bet you he won't last an entire season with our OL

[Buford]

The Jets have two things the Skins don't.

A really good OL.....AND.....a strong running game.

[Newera]

I thought about this watching the game yesterday.

Does anyone realistically think with the pressure that New Orleans put on Favre that Jason would have even held up under that pressure. Or certainly taken more sacks. Jason to me is like McNabb, just good enough to lose with. And, it's not even racial. I'm black.

Ask Philly fans what they really think of McNabb.

[TheLongshot]

The most important member of that team.

And the one most dependent on his teammates for success. A QB is nothing if the OL can't block for him and his receivers can't get open and make the catches.

As I said, this is a team game. QBs can't do it by themselves for long.

[ST is my boy]

The most important member of that team.

Sanchez threw 12 tds and 20 picks.....and they went to the AFC title game.

That is a really bad season.....rookie or not.......

They asked him to throw the ball 10 times some games....

I would hardly call him the most important member of the team.

[RedskinsTime]

I thought about this watching the game yesterday.

Does anyone realistically think with the pressure that New Orleans put on Favre that Jason would have even held up under that pressure. Or certainly taken more sacks. Jason to me is like McNabb, just good enough to lose with. And, it's not even racial. I'm black.

Ask Philly fans what they really think of McNabb.

No offense, but I don't take anything seriously that comes from a Philly fan. No matter how poorly McNabb plays in a win, he's the best quarterback in the league. No matter how well he plays in a loss, he ****ing sucks.

Philly fans wouldn't know a football if it hit them in the nose.

[#98QBKiller]

And the one most dependent on his teammates for success. A QB is nothing if the OL can't block for him and his receivers can't get open and make the catches.

As I said, this is a team game. QBs can't do it by themselves for long.

Good QBs elevate the play of the offense around them. That's not saying that a good QB can fix a starting offense that was as decimated by injuries as ours was last season, but Jason Campbell doesn't get a free pass because of that either. He's played behind productive offensive lines in every other season of his career.



Sanchez threw 12 tds and 20 picks.....and they went to the AFC title game.

That is a really bad season.....rookie or not.......

They asked him to throw the ball 10 times some games....

I would hardly call him the most important member of the team.

Way to cherry pick one team out of the final four that's the exception. How about the other three teams in the championship games?

BTW, Mark Sanchez played well in the postseason and produced enough big plays to supplement their rushing attack and defense.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Sanchez threw 12 tds and 20 picks.....and they went to the AFC title game.

That is a really bad season.....rookie or not.......

They asked him to throw the ball 10 times some games....

I would hardly call him the most important member of the team.


thats one team out of 32 thats really built that way. they literally just have a crushing run game and a killer defense. and we saw how that went yesterday against a great offense.

i personally dont want our team built like the jets whatsoever. teams like that in the modern NFL do not sustain real success. the teams that are real consistent threats every year have a legit franchise QB, something we havent had since god knows how long.

the goal is not to be the jets.