What teams have been successful with a 2 TE set? (MET)

[MR2Drift]

What teams have been successful with a 2 TE set? To be more specific, with 2 pass catching TE's that will keep Defenses guessing?

[zskins]

The Washington Redskins circa 1980's.

"Joe Gibbs removed the fullback and went with two tight ends at Washington with great success in the 1980s. He favored running the football. Don Coryell ran three tight ends through his offense in the 1980s with the San Diego Chargers. He favored passing the ball."

Currently it is the Texans with 4 TE on their roster.

[skinnyfan57]

Colts and Patriots

[Laxpunk2006]

The Colts ran a lot of dual TE's with Pollard and Clark. Not sure how much 2 TE they've done since Pollard left. New England has run 2-3 TE sets for years. Miami was also running a lot of 2 TE sets a year ago, not sure if they continued in 2009.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The Washington Redskins circa 1980's.

"Joe Gibbs removed the fullback and went with two tight ends at Washington with great success in the 1980s. He favored running the football. Don Coryell ran three tight ends through his offense in the 1980s with the San Diego Chargers. He favored passing the ball."

Currently it is the Texans with 4 TE on their roster.

That wasn't two pass catching TE's as such though as the OP asked.

The main reason Gibbs invented the two TE set, and H-Back role, was to counter LT, and it kinda' evolved from there in our Jumbo packages. Cooley was more a hybrid when Coach returned for his second go-around.

Off hand, as has been mentioned, in todays game, the Pats and Colts come to mind, with the Colts using one as more of a H-back than a full-back, and Clark being as good as another wide out.

Hail.

[Looking For Number Four]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2334917/posts

During my tour of training camps this summer, I sensed another trend emerging on offense – the two-tight end set. The Houston Texans have already made a sizable investment in that formation, carrying four tight ends on their 2009 roster.


It's all common sense to Texans coach Gary Kubiak, who sees the multi-tight end sets beneficial to both his passing and running games.


"Protection is No. 1 in this league,". "If you can't protect your quarterback, it doesn't matter how good you are offensively. If he gets beaten up, you're not going to be successful. A two-tight end [package] widens those great defensive ends. It allows you to chip [block] on your way out and slow those guys down.


"It also balances the field so you can go either way when you run the ball. There are a lot of advantages to it. But it all starts with keeping your quarterback upright."



Their offensive cordinator is now ours, Kyle Shanahan, I'm thinking he knows a thing or two about how we can take advantage of Cooley and Davis. I think it will be used extensively in the red/end zone.

[jfriedenthal]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2334917/posts

During my tour of training camps this summer, I sensed another trend emerging on offense – the two-tight end set. The Houston Texans have already made a sizable investment in that formation, carrying four tight ends on their 2009 roster.


It's all common sense to Texans coach Gary Kubiak, who sees the multi-tight end sets beneficial to both his passing and running games.


"Protection is No. 1 in this league,". "If you can't protect your quarterback, it doesn't matter how good you are offensively. If he gets beaten up, you're not going to be successful. A two-tight end [package] widens those great defensive ends. It allows you to chip [block] on your way out and slow those guys down.


"It also balances the field so you can go either way when you run the ball. There are a lot of advantages to it. But it all starts with keeping your quarterback upright."



Their offensive cordinator is now ours, Kyle Shanahan, I'm thinking he knows a thing or two about how we can take advantage of Cooley and Davis. I think it will be used extensively in the red/end zone.

The question posed, was regarding two PASS CATCHING tight ends. The fact of the matter is, both Davis and Cooley edge more on the side of pass catching tight ends. Still my thoughts are in 2 TE Sets, Yoder can service as a blocking TE, and EITHER Davis or Cooley can suffice as the alternate. I would love to see the trade value for either Cooley OR Davis, and whichever is higher, get either picks or O-Linemen. Yoder is beyond serviceable in a 2 TE set, we don't need Davis and Cooley. Too much investment in one position.

[royallypwned]

The Cowboys went to a lot of two TE sets starting this season, with a combination of all three of our TEs, Witten, Bennett, and Phillips. Too bad Bennett didn't pull his head out of his ass all season. Phillips was good though, so Bennett is on the hot seat. But that's a different story...

I think two TE sets can be effective with the right guys. Did the Skins not do much of that this season? I'm guessing not since Cooley went down. But I'd expect quite a bit of it next season with both he and Davis healthy. It is a good way of slowing down the blitz, and the NFC East teams have always liked to do just that.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I guess, or rather wonder, on the above about Kubiak and the Texans, and Shanahan Snr's past; presuming we keep both Cooley and Davis, if we'll keep three around with Yoder's blocking saving him? Or maybe even look to pick up a younger, bigger one for just that, and maybes sacrifice Sellers and the FB role on the roster.

Oh I'ma getting all excited for the personnel moves to start in earnest now and watch this thing really take shape. :).

Hail.

[TheItalianStallion]

We could also have TEs split out wide, a la finley with GB. During the STL game this year, Cooley was split out wide and ran a slant that got completed. Though I think Davis would be a better fit for that.

[A Skinhead in Saints Land]

I think the two tightend set production that most of the people on here isn't going to happen. I seriously doubt Cooley and Davis will have gaudy numbers while both are on the field at the same time. One of them will suffer.

Show me a team that had to top tier tightends on the field, at the same time, the entire year and both had great numbers, and I'll eat a 22 gallon drum full of crow.

[McD5]

This is basically a myth.

Zorn was inexperienced and excited in his first draft, and together with the tremendous intellect of Vinny, they tried to find some offensive weapons. Sensory overload followed, and we ended up with Fred Davis.

The 2 TE set was an afterthought.

And, we already have a capable second in Yoder.

This was just a huge error from the FO. Someone should have stepped in and taken control.

"Jim, we know you are excited. But we already have two good tight ends, and we have other needs above drafting a third, for your offensive playbook which doesn't even exist at this point."

[PokerPacker]

Packers often use 3 tight-ends on the goal-line. Finley and Havner are receiving threats.

[Veretax]

The packers also use that weird formation that I can never remember the name of where they have a running back and two full backs spread to either side behind the lineman.

[PokerPacker]

The packers also use that weird formation that I can never remember the name of where they have a running back and two full backs spread to either side behind the lineman.

I believe that is the full-house formation.

[Wild West]

Why don't we just sign Tony Scheffler and Owen Daniels and run with 4 TEs? Go with a jumbo set every play and just pound it. At any time, any of those guys could run a nice route (probably better than any of our receivers). That would keep defenses off balance for sure.

[Hitman21ST]

The Steelers run a lot of multiple-TE sets, with a lot of theirs being pass-catching TEs.

[cphil006]

The Washington Redskins circa 1980's.

"Joe Gibbs removed the fullback and went with two tight ends at Washington with great success in the 1980s. He favored running the football. Don Coryell ran three tight ends through his offense in the 1980s with the San Diego Chargers. He favored passing the ball."

Currently it is the Texans with 4 TE on their roster.

Texans OC last season was Kyle Shanahan...

Yes, you are correct, we enjoyed much success with Doc Walker, Don Warren, and later Clint Didier (H-back) and Ron Middleton...

Speaking of Middleton, he's the only TE in motion I've seen do a spin move... while in motion... :logo:

[Mark The Homer]

8. Please use descriptive and accurate subject titles for your posts.
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[Mahons21]

We could also have TEs split out wide, a la finley with GB. During the STL game this year, Cooley was split out wide and ran a slant that got completed. Though I think Davis would be a better fit for that.

-Davis was split out wide and put in the slot all the time at USC, and he really shined in those positions.

[VaBeachRedskin]

Currently it is the Texans with 4 TE on their roster.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that 2 of them tore their ACLs during the season? Could just be a coincidence though.

[Wild West]

Ultimately, do you really think that both Chris Cooley and Fred Davis could have 80 rec, 800 yard, 6+ TD years on the same team? I don't think that has ever happened with two tight ends, so unless they plan to play one at wide receiver there isn't much reason to keep both. Both players deserve to start.

If Cooley starts, Davis will waste away on the bench and will probably leave in a few years in free agency. We give up a potential perennial pro-bowler (and waste the 2nd round pick that we spent on him), for probably nothing in return.

If Davis starts, what's the point of keeping Cooley? Again we waste a potential pro-bowler and his value will only go down if he's not playing.

Therefore, we should trade one and get value while we still can. It just happens that Cooley is more valuable and is older (not old).

Yes, tight end is a strength for us. If we traded Cooley, it would still be a strength and we might be able to make another position a strength too.

And then if you really want to run 2-TE sets you can pick up Scheffler or someone for free or just resign Yoder.

[rick1796]

do you guys watch football? lol the saints ran from a two tight end set for most of the game vs. the vikes.

[Wild West]

do you guys watch football? lol the saints ran from a two tight end set for most of the game vs. the vikes.

That was one game out of necessity (they were getting hammered by the pass rush). Also Shockey was (is) playing hurt.

If we just plan to keep them in to pass protect, we don't need Cooley for that. We can get a blocking tightend cheap.

[Jacoby6644]

Originally Posted by TheItalianStallion http://www.extremeskins.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=7258720#post7258720)
We could also have TEs split out wide, a la finley with GB. During the STL game this year, Cooley was split out wide and ran a slant that got completed. Though I think Davis would be a better fit for that


-Davis was split out wide and put in the slot all the time at USC, and he really shined in those positions.

GB Split Finley out much of the rest of the season once he got healthy. Davis could easily do the same thing. I think Cooley could excel there as well. Putting the TE on the Flank or in the Slot creates a ton of mismatches on the field for the DBs. Forces them to go against bigger stronger receiver that many DBs struggle with.

[Llevron]

I have to wonder if Davis and Cooley would excel in pass blocking now that we are going to zone blocking. I know Zone blocking uses quicker and weaker o-line men but I dont know if that even related to the TE's at all. One could hope I guess....

[PlayAction]

Lots of teams run 2 TE sets but so have the Skins. Most teams though have a TE with predominant blocking skills who can also catch passes when needed. Gibbs used Sellers as a blocking TE for a while and he caught 6-7 TD passes/year. Last year Yoder was the blocking TE but he still caught a good number of TD passes.

The question is whether the Skins can utilize (at the same time) two TEs with minimal blocking skills. I suppose Shanahan could move Cooley back the H back position and put him in motion (as he originally played his first year under Gibbs) with Davis split out wide. 5 OL, 1 QB, 2 pass catching TEs, 2 WRs, 1 RB. The H back and the RB can chip block in pass protection.

[Darth Tater]

The purpose of a 2TE form in the passing game is to minimize the ability of the opposing defense to blitz and to provide "chip" blocks (this does NOT require you to be a great blocker, mostly just a great athlete) on the outside. It minimizes blitzing because a blitz is likely to give up a 5-15 yard completion (maybe more) so you either believe your blitz is going to get there or the QB/TE will not execute (you're blitz might help force an error here).

[The Full Monty]

If Shanahan really is this great innovator he would find a way to scare defenses to death with Cooley and Davis.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

I think the two tightend set production that most of the people on here isn't going to happen. I seriously doubt Cooley and Davis will have gaudy numbers while both are on the field at the same time. One of them will suffer.

Show me a team that had to top tier tightends on the field, at the same time, the entire year and both had great numbers, and I'll eat a 22 gallon drum full of crow.

God forbid we have a team mentality. It would be unfair to have a player's stats lowered for the good of the team. While we're at it, let's go back to Portis getting all the carries.

[Looking For Number Four]

The Cowboys went to a lot of two TE sets starting this season, with a combination of all three of our TEs, Witten, Bennett, and Phillips. Too bad Bennett didn't pull his head out of his ass all season. Phillips was good though, so Bennett is on the hot seat. But that's a different story...

I think two TE sets can be effective with the right guys. Did the Skins not do much of that this season? I'm guessing not since Cooley went down. But I'd expect quite a bit of it next season with both he and Davis healthy. It is a good way of slowing down the blitz, and the NFC East teams have always liked to do just that.

You are from Dallas and like the Redskins!? You are my new favorite person, unquestionable.

[Looking For Number Four]

In response to the question, Kyle Shanahan has been DYING for the chance to have two TEs like Davis and Cooley and I do not think it will be long before the plan is unveiled and causing defensive coordinators nightmares trying to gameplan.

[royallypwned]

You are from Dallas and like the Redskins!? You are my new favorite person, unquestionable.

lol no, I am definitely a Cowboys fan from Dallas. Hence my Ware sig. ;)

edit: now you can start hating me. :ols: :(

[Looking For Number Four]

-Davis was split out wide and put in the slot all the time at USC, and he really shined in those positions.


I am a HUGE USC fan, have been since Palmer, could not agree more. He doubled the TDs of any USC WR/TE. When we drafted him, the first thing I thought about was this exact concept. I thought that it was just one of those aspects of college football that would never translate into the NFL. After the Wildcat's movement into every Sunday relevance and Kyle Shanahan's hiring I think I may have been a bit quick to judge.

[Looking For Number Four]

lol no, I am definitely a Cowboys fan from Dallas. Hence my Ware sig. ;)

edit: now you can start hating me. :ols: :(

Did not need the edit.

My father was as die hard as Cowboy fans come, he had professional pictures taken of me in a diaper with a Cowboy helmet. Not sure when the rebellion began, but my 6th birthday party was Redskin themed.

My roommate for seven years also is die-hard Cowboy fan, just seem to surround myself in "you people." :D

Do not worry, we will welcome you when reality sets in ;)

[Hubbs]

I'd say that the last team to really use two receiving tight ends well was the Colts with the Pollard/Clark duo.

[MR2Drift]

In 2005 Clark and Pollard combined for around 1000 yds and 8 TDs. Thats less than what Dallas did by himself this year.

[VaSkinsNut]

Patriots used it quite a bit with Daniel Grahm and Ben Watson a few years ago. Worked well enough to win a couple superbowls.

[Wild West]

In 2005 Clark and Pollard combined for around 1000 yds and 8 TDs. Thats less than what Dallas did by himself this year.

Yep, and they didn't win a Superbowl using that scheme either.

Face it guys, if we try to use both, neither will be as good as they could be. They just won't get enough targets.

[Wild West]

Patriots used it quite a bit with Daniel Grahm and Ben Watson a few years ago. Worked well enough to win a couple superbowls.

The difference there is that Daniel Graham is a pure blocking TE. He rarely went out for a pass. He was basically a 6th offensive lineman. Neither of our guys fits that bill (and believe me, we need a 6th offensive lineman...)

[darrelgreenie]

Yep, and they didn't win a Superbowl using that scheme either.

Face it guys, if we try to use both, neither will be as good as they could be. They just won't get enough targets.

The measure of success of the a double TE set isn't measured solely by the number of TE receptions.

I think you're taking a very narrow view of what constitutes a successful double TE set within an offense.

Having 2 good/decent TEs can be used to create mismatches and dictate coverage.
Its about how the double TEs effect the running game, its about how doubling 1 TE leaves the 2nd TE with a good matchup and leaves at least 1 WR with single coverage.

Its about matchups both in the passing game and in the running game.

If your 2nd TE poses more threat to a defense then your 2nd/3rd/4th WR then a double TE set is going to be effective. The second TE is going to be a better blocker then a safety or a corner and is going to be able to get open against a linebacker.

Also i don't think it makes sense to try and boil winning a superbowl down to the successful use of a double TE set or any other formation.

HTTR!
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sp...-81966947.html (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/blogs/redskins-confidential/Season-review-Tight-ends-81966947.html)

Also, one Denver source who knows Mike Shanahan well said the Redskins new coach would love to have two pass-catching tight ends.

here are some links to other threads where this has come up:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=315528&page=7

Here's a great video about some of the more basic double TEs sets and advantages:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d80c49f6c/Playbook-Billick-on-2-tight-end-sets

[Koolblue13]

Here's a great video about some of the more basic double TEs sets and advantages:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d80c49f6c/Playbook-Billick-on-2-tight-end-sets

Great video dg. Should really shut down the trade talks. Cooley is definitely better than any of the other TEs in the video and Davis looks to be as well.

2 TEs are going to be huge for us next season and a few after that as well.

[rick1796]

That was one game out of necessity (they were getting hammered by the pass rush). Also Shockey was (is) playing hurt.

If we just plan to keep them in to pass protect, we don't need Cooley for that. We can get a blocking tightend cheap.

so much for versatility. The whole point of running two tight is how versatile the offense becomes. I agree that both Fred and Cooley need to step up their blocking, though the people who think Cooley is a bad blocker have not been watching as closely as they should. But when you can pass effectively out of what is generally a run first formation you put a LOT of pressure on the D.

BTW it wasn't one game out of necessity. Thomas had 35 receptions this year to Shockey's 48. They ran two tight a lot.

I really think running two tight in a zone blocking scheme so the TE's can move to the defense's second level would work great. Just imagine being the LB's as the TE releases and heads toward you you have to decided whether the play is run or pass and either engage dodge or cover the TE accordingly. There is a lot of potential there.

Once again yes fred davis and cooley need to (continue to) improve in run blocking.

[icbmayday]

Definately the Colts..... And we have an even better duo of TE's

[JaimeDeCurry]

This is basically a myth.

Zorn was inexperienced and excited in his first draft, and together with the tremendous intellect of Vinny, they tried to find some offensive weapons. Sensory overload followed, and we ended up with Fred Davis.

The 2 TE set was an afterthought.

And, we already have a capable second in Yoder.

This was just a huge error from the FO. Someone should have stepped in and taken control.

"Jim, we know you are excited. But we already have two good tight ends, and we have other needs above drafting a third, for your offensive playbook which doesn't even exist at this point."


Yet again, speculation presented as fact. You rarely, if ever, back your matter-of-fact statements up with any proof. Hopefully newer members on here don't fall into the trap of assuming you know any more than the average Joe Fan.