Schefter [via Mike & Mike ESPN 980]: Campbell will be back as starting QB

[GenMgr]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?id=4865571

*start listening around 4:40 mark


"Jason Campbell will be the quarterback next year"

"The Redskins would love to see him blossom...it is not his fault that he has had to undergo so many coordinators"

"That doesn't stop them from drafting a quarterback in the first or second round"[/B]

[STBonecrusher21]

Stop Gap.

I just can't see Shanny being that excited about working with JC.

[Wild West]

Sure, they'll tender him as an RFA and plan to start him.

That doesn't mean they won't be open to trade offers or be actively trying to trade him.

I believe that Shanahan/Allen will explore all opportunities to make this team better. NOT tendering a player with value like Campbell would be foolish.

[Skins93077]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yeah...to me, all this says is "Redskins not showing their hand that they'll listen to trade offers for Campbell."

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Yeah...to me, all this says is "Redskins not showing their hand that they'll listen to trade offers for Campbell."


bingo.

[NewRegime]

If they REALLY like him, they give him an lengthy contract, not a 1 year deal. So whatever...

[stoney26]

It would be stupid not to tender him. Id still draft Bradford and start him from the get go but Im just a poster on a message board. Like Ive said before, Im on board with whatever the new regime wants to do. Its not Vinny and Dan calling the shots anymore.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

What better way to bait teams into want to trading for him?

[bushwack]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

I just don't see a team giving up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Campbell. St. Louis needs a QB and say they wanted to trade for Campbell, they're not going to give up the #1 pick in the 2nd or 3rd round for him. At best, Campbell could pull a mid-4th round pick to early 5th round pick.

I would love to see Allen pull a Parcells on Cerrato type of move; however, there aren't many, if any, GM's that are as incompetent as what Vinny was.

[stoney26]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

I they dont retain him how are they going to trade him??

[mnb123]

Hes QB by default due to a lack of a better option, not because he earned it.

He is gone as soon as his successor is ready

[Jeff in D.C.]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

What GM is his right mind would give us a 2nd or 3rd for him??

JC haters need to keep from getting their panties in a bunch over this. He'll be here one year while whichever QB we draft is being developed, then he's gone.

Now I'll say this, if we somehow were able to get a 2nd or 3rd for him, I make that trade in a heartbeat.

[[[ghost]]]

Smart.

It's a lot harder to pry a starter from a team than a player who is all but out the door.

This will either up his trade value, or perhaps Shanahan will bring out the best in JC. Hopefully it's the latter.

[MattFancy]

Not a bad idea. No harm in bringing him back next year. I still think we end up drafting a QB though. That way we have a back up plan if things don't work out with Campbell.

[SMoss_89]

Yeah...to me, all this says is "Redskins not showing their hand that they'll listen to trade offers for Campbell."

Yup! Lol Shanny's smart indeed! Can't wait to see how good of a husstle Mike will come up with...

Also, Watch the floodgates with the likes of drastik, pissazle and others use this as more ways to try and pimp their boy like he's going to be our QB of the future!

If MS ends up getting at least a 3rd or 4th for Campbell, I'd jump for joy!

[#98QBKiller]

This is all speculation.

Schefter also says:

"At times he's looked very impressive, at times he's looked very shaky"

Says that he's a RFA so he's not going anywhere, so you bring him in and take a good long look.

"That doesn't stop the Redskins if the right guy's there, from drafting him with the #4 pick"


So basically this is non-news. The Redskins will prob bring him back and draft a QB w/ the #4 pick. Assuming that Campbell will start to begin with until the rookie is ready.

Pretty much what ES has been saying for weeks.

I'll give this thread three yawnees out of four:

:yawnee::yawnee::yawnee:

[Botched]

Yeah...to me, all this says is "Redskins not showing their hand that they'll listen to trade offers for Campbell."

Yep pretty much. I expect we'll hear more stuff like this for the next couple months.

[Hitman#21]

Very smart, first step is to tender him that 1 yr offer. Than the Skins could decide to trade him or keep him and who they want to draft.

[SMOSS89]

Yup! Lol Shanny's smart indeed! Can't wait to see how good of a husstle Mike will come up with...

Also, Watch the floodgates with the likes of drastik, pissazle and others use this as more ways to try and pimp their boy like he's going to be our QB of the future!

If MS ends up getting at least a 3rd or 4th for Campbell, I'd jump for joy!


SMoss 89???? Really??

[Forever21]

Yeah...to me, all this says is "Redskins not showing their hand that they'll listen to trade offers for Campbell."

ding!ding!ding!ding!

[Skins-Canes-Mounties]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

at LEAST a late 2nd or 3rd????????? I'm thinking at the ABSOLUTE best. I'd be ecstatic if we could pull that off.

[authentic]

Sure, they'll tender him as an RFA and plan to start him.

That doesn't mean they won't be open to trade offers or be actively trying to trade him.

I believe that Shanahan/Allen will explore all opportunities to make this team better. NOT tendering a player with value like Campbell would be foolish.

Sidebar....with a limited amount of picks going into the draft, I'm almost certain JC won't be only player tendered. I can see possilby about 3 or 4 players tendered as a strategy to aquire more picks. I can't wait until March 1, or when ever FA begins. This will get very interesting.

[Voice_of_Reason]

If they REALLY like him, they give him an lengthy contract, not a 1 year deal. So whatever...
Exactly. Proof is in the pudding. If they give him a long term deal, they like him a lot. If they tender him a 1 year deal, he is a...


Stop Gap.


They are going to draft somebody. Question is just when.


];7259650']Smart.

It's a lot harder to pry a starter from a team than a player who is all but out the door.

This will either up his trade value, or perhaps Shanahan will bring out the best in JC. Hopefully it's the latter.
Bingo. This was a good move.

Here are the list of FA QBs with experience who should be available:
Kyle Orton
Jason Campbell
Tavaris Jackson.

Orton and Jackson probably won't go.

[SMoss_89]

SMoss 89???? Really??

Lol sorry, I had Moss_89 on espn message boards and had it here before they banned me for a sig that was too big.. I'll change my name after the draft.. I wasn't tryna rip u off..

[Blue Collar Skins]

Stop Gap.

I just can't see Shanny being that excited about working with JC.

He's probably as excited as that kid in your sig watching his team lose in soccer, though I hope I never see Shanahan on the sideline smearing Ice Cream on his face :silly:

[Blue Collar Skins]

SMoss 89???? Really??

Santana called and he wants his name back ;)

[TheLongshot]

I shake my head when people think that Shanahan couldn't POSSIBLY think that Campbell could be a good QB under him. All sort of people are twisting themselves in to knots to read something that so far isn't there.

While there are no definites, QB is far from the biggest need on this team and it has already been established that it is likely that OL and the running game will be the focus of this offseason.

[Wild West]

Lol sorry, I had Moss_89 on espn message boards and had it here before they banned me for a sig that was too big.. I'll change my name after the draft.. I wasn't tryna rip u off..

This is the most interesting discussion in this thread.

Move along....nothing to see here.

[STBonecrusher21]

He's probably as excited as that kid in your sig watching his team lose in soccer, though I hope I never see Shanahan on the sideline smearing Ice Cream on his face :silly:

Well its Shanahans grandson, so you'll be seeing a lot of him.

:D

[texasthunder]

Schefter also said he really believes Warner is going to retire.
And that the Cards will be looking to bring in a veteren.

It would be sweet if we could tender Jason, then trade him to the Cardinals for their 2nd round pick (58th pick in the draft).
That would give us two picks in the second, one early and one late.
Then we could possably target a RB or NT in the second round.

[bobzmuda]

Hell, if Cutler can bring 2 firsts, a third, and Kyle Orton, surely there's another GM out there that will give a 3rd for Campbell.

[tml6157]

How long before we hear that jason is having a bad year because he needs time to learn the new system? Im sick and tired of hearing that excuse. Other QBs can succeed in their first year in a new system. Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez two recent ones. The worst problem is that they were rookies. Learning the speed and life of the NFL along with a totally new system and playing against players 10 times as good as college players they both succeeded. I say if we keep Campbell as a starter he gets this year and thats it. The concepts dont change. Reading defenses doesnt change. Terminology does. There is no excuse as to why he shouldnt succeed this year.

[TheLongshot]

How long before we hear that jason is having a bad year because he needs time to learn the new system? Im sick and tired of hearing that excuse. Other QBs can succeed in their first year in a new system. Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez two recent ones. The worst problem is that they were rookies. Learning the speed and life of the NFL along with a totally new system and playing against players 10 times as good as college players they both succeeded. I say if we keep Campbell as a starter he gets this year and thats it. The concepts dont change. Reading defenses doesnt change. Terminology does. There is no excuse as to why he shouldnt succeed this year.

I don't think we will have that excuse this year, since we are sticking with a variation of the WCO. The question is going to be, is the OL going to be good enough?

And you think Sanchez had a good season? He was one of the worst QBs in the NFL last season.

[StillUnknown]

i expect campbell to be back for one more season as a stop gap while the rookie they draft sits & wait.

hopefully some other team will see something in campbell and actually want to sign him so we can get some kind of draft compensation

[MartinC]

He is gone as soon as his successor is ready

So is every player in the NFL. It happens to everyone sooner or later.

Bottom line is if after evaluating Campbell and the veteran QBs who might be available via fre agency Shanny thinks Campbell is the best option so be it.

I do think that if they decide Bradford is the real deal they will take him at #4 even of they reatain Campbell but let him sit for a year while they overhaul the O'Line. No sense throwing a rookie out there until we can protect him.

[jsharrin55]

Sidebar....with a limited amount of picks going into the draft, I'm almost certain JC won't be only player tendered. I can see possilby about 3 or 4 players tendered as a strategy to aquire more picks. I can't wait until March 1, or when ever FA begins. This will get very interesting.

Yeah, I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about Carlos Rodgers being traded.

[Skins93077]

What GM is his right mind would give us a 2nd or 3rd for him??

JC haters need to keep from getting their panties in a bunch over this. He'll be here one year while whichever QB we draft is being developed, then he's gone.

Now I'll say this, if we somehow were able to get a 2nd or 3rd for him, I make that trade in a heartbeat.



Now who said I was a jc hater? Can you not read what I wrote? Really people need to stop think and then react!!!

[Jeff in D.C.]

Yeah, I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about Carlos Rodgers being traded.

Trade him for what, a slab of beef?

I find it funny that several ES'ers want to trade guys who are supposedly "crap" to us but other teams "will gladly give up a 2nd or 3rd for," when in reality these guys have absolutely no value whatsoever.

Los has been half-decent at times with the right coaching, so I say keep him (if he'll re-sign cheap) because we're not going to get a good pick for him.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Hell, if Cutler can bring 2 firsts, a third, and Kyle Orton, surely there's another GM out there that will give a 3rd for Campbell.


cutler was a young pro bowl QB with a great arm and a knack for throwing TDs. his only knock is that hes careless with the football too much, which for a 26 year old kid can be corrected.

if we got a 5th for campbell id be ecstatic.

[thesubmittedone]

I shake my head when people think that Shanahan couldn't POSSIBLY think that Campbell could be a good QB under him. All sort of people are twisting themselves in to knots to read something that so far isn't there.

While there are no definites, QB is far from the biggest need on this team and it has already been established that it is likely that OL and the running game will be the focus of this offseason.


Could you imagine some of these people if we keep Campbell and do not draft a QB this year? :hysterical:

The whole "giving our new GM and HC time" thing will go right out the window, lol.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Could you imagine some of these people if we keep Campbell and do not draft a QB this year? :hysterical:

The whole "giving our new GM and HC time" thing will go right out the window, lol.


thats a nightmare scenario. i dread the thought of that, and you should too if you even value the future of this team.

[TheLongshot]

Could you imagine some of these people if we keep Campbell and do not draft a QB this year? :hysterical:

The whole "giving our new GM and HC time" thing will go right out the window, lol.

Well, except for the "Cult of Colt" fans, who will be ecstatic, thinking that he's still the future.

Whether or not we do draft a QB (I think the chances are high that we do draft one at some point in the draft), there will still be a lot of bellyaching about benching Campbell, even if he does moderately well. I think at this point there isn't much he can do to convince some fans that he's ever going to be good enough. Never mind that he still hasn't hit his ceiling.

[erock353]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?id=4865571

*start listening around 4:40 mark


"Jason Campbell will be the quarterback next year"

"The Redskins would love to see him blossom...it is not his fault that he has had to undergo so many coordinators"

"That doesn't stop them from drafting a quarterback in the first or second round"[/B]


Nothing really new about this just more exciting when a 'top football expert' mentions it. I would have to say this is a smart move unless we can snag a 1st or 2nd rounder for him, but just don't see that happening. And with the experience he has it's not worth letting him go for a later pick(IMO). Draft a QB, let him sit back a year or two and see if JC can do anything next year.

But, if this is a disguise then I hope it goes well. Hail!

:point2sky

[texasthunder]

I think Matt Mosley said it best.
"Its time for a change of scenery for Jason"
It would be best for him and for the Redskins.

BTW, I am not a fan of making him a placeholder while we groom his successor. Jason has been put thru alot during his tenure with the Skins, and just based on his attitude and hard working ethics he should be given a chance to be a long term starter some where.

[Passizle]

bingo.
Always the secret message/hidden message or meaning BLC. :doh:

Lets not debate it... just sayin' is all

[Passizle]

What better way to bait teams into want to trading for him?
Yes. Because fools on a MB are far more football intelligent than the scouts and player personel managers for NFL teams.

PS. Not calling you a fool. Im calling all of us here fools from time to time.

[Drastik]

I just don't see a team giving up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Campbell. St. Louis needs a QB and say they wanted to trade for Campbell, they're not going to give up the #1 pick in the 2nd or 3rd round for him. At best, Campbell could pull a mid-4th round pick to early 5th round pick.

I would love to see Allen pull a Parcells on Cerrato type of move; however, there aren't many, if any, GM's that are as incompetent as what Vinny was.

rosenfels was traded for a 4th rounder.. campbell's market value will be higher... it's not unrealistic to expect a late 2nd or early third for a guy coming off a 3600 yard, 20TD season in terrible playing conditions.

[Passizle]

Yup! Lol Shanny's smart indeed! Can't wait to see how good of a husstle Mike will come up with...

Also, Watch the floodgates with the likes of drastik, pissazle and others use this as more ways to try and pimp their boy like he's going to be our QB of the future!

If MS ends up getting at least a 3rd or 4th for Campbell, I'd jump for joy!
Dont call me out. I never called him a sure thing. I think he has talent and flaws. I defend the guy from extremists such as yourself who think he's th worst starter in the NFL and CFL (if he played there).

[SoCalSkins]

Could you imagine some of these people if we keep Campbell and do not draft a QB this year? :hysterical:

The whole "giving our new GM and HC time" thing will go right out the window, lol.

The coach and GM are far too aware of that fact. JC won't be starting games.

[Hiro]

Stop Gap.

I just can't see Shanny being that excited about working with JC.
Agreed.

Plus, the final line in that recap is the most important part. Love him or hate him, not tendering him would be pretty stupid IMO. With him, we have a capable starter who can fill in while our young guy leans and adapts (which will be useful for a guy like Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford, given that they both will be coming from a spread system in college).

And honestly, who else could we get for a one year deal who would be better than Campbell?

[Jeff in D.C.]

Originally Posted by thesubmittedone http://extremeskins.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=7260044#post7260044)
Could you imagine some of these people if we keep Campbell and do not draft a QB this year? :hysterical:

The whole "giving our new GM and HC time" thing will go right out the window, lol.



thats a nightmare scenario. i dread the thought of that, and you should too if you even value the future of this team.

If that happened the JC haters will be marching around Redskins Park with torches the first night of the draft.

[Jeff in D.C.]

Now who said I was a jc hater? Can you not read what I wrote? Really people need to stop think and then react!!!

I didn't label you as a hater, I was referring to the haters in a general sense.

I suppose I shouldn't be narrow minded about what we could get for him, all it would take is one out of the other 31 GM's to decide he's worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder. We'll see what happens.

[CG]

Hell, if Cutler can bring 2 firsts, a third, and Kyle Orton, surely there's another GM out there that will give a 3rd for Campbell.


The Bears FO are the new Snyderatto. That team is in rough shape. I wouldn't count on that same type of deal going down again with another team.

[boobiemiles]

This is good news. Who knows, maybe JC blossoms under Shannahan and we win a chip. Just saying, it could happen. I am not a big fan of JC. Honestly I was upset when we drafted him. But to date he's the best QB we've drafted in the last decade, so I want to see what we have before we let him get away.

[[[ghost]]]

If Shanahan and Allen thought that Campbell would play a key role in their offense for the next couple of years, would all of the haters still be pissed?

I have more faith in Shanahan and Allen then anyone ok ES. If they say Campbell is their guy, than so be it.

But if they want Bradford at #4 than that's great too.

[Vicious]

Don't kid yourselves, there is no way we can put a Rookie behind this line. You'd turn a future hall of famer into a bust real quick when he is getting slaughtered.

Jason Campbell is one of the few QB's with the physique capable of playing behind this line. It is a terrible, awful line, that will not be fixed in a year. It's too bad Snyder screwed up his team so bad right before no cap. You'd think he'd be planning ahead for this, but nah.

[evmiii]

This is not Coach Shanahan's first rodeo; he has a pretty good track record with QB's. If based on his extensive experience he thinks Jason Campbell can be successful in his offense that free's us up to take our new left tackle in round 1. Maybe we still pick up a back-up QB project in later rounds.

If Coach S doesn't think Jason can be the guy, I expect him to be traded for nothing less than a second round pick. I know he has struggled at times and gets no love on this board, but a second rounder for a starting QB with his numbers is realistic.

[TheItalianStallion]

Also, Watch the floodgates with the likes of drastik, pissazle and others use this as more ways to try and pimp their boy like he's going to be our QB of the future!No one has done this yet. Some "flood gates."

[gorebd82]

This is the same thing the Eagles are doing with McNabb and Vick. All this statement says to me is that Jason Campbell will not be available in free agency. This is protocol for any approaching free agency. Its a chess game.

If Campbell's agent were smart, he would take this opportunity to ask for a long term deal and find the RFA tag offensive. That would mean that JC gets a contract from the Skins or they trade him to a team that will. I just don't see Campbell and his agent being ok with JC being a lame duck while a rookie QB comes in.

Remember last year, the word being floated was that Campbell would request a trade if we drafted Sanchez. I doubt he wouldn't request a trade if we take Bradford. If anything, they will take that stance on the contract by March 1 so that it will create a market for Campbell.

There's a couple of other interesting things that affect this scenario. First is Michael Vick. He will be traded by like March 5 before his bonus is due. That will take a team out of the QB market, but it will make the other teams with great need look at JC even harder. It will also help determine the price tag for JC.

Kurt Warner's retirement also helps us. That now means that Leinart is of the table. It also gives the Rams, 49ers, and Seahawks a sense of urgency to make a run at winning the division. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rams make a run at Vick.

Whomever doesn't draft Jimmy Clausen between Seattle and Buffalo will also be candidates for JC. Seattle may pass on Clausen, but they need an heir/insurance policy for Hasselback. If Buffalo doesn't get Clausen, they could use a strong armed, mobile QB to fit Chan Gailey's offense and be effective in the elements.

Point to all of this is that the Skins let all these teams know that Jason Campbell is a starting caliber QB who's rights will be retained. If you want him, it will cost you. If not, we'll hold onto him. But in that situation, Campbell will want to leave. Skins have all the leverage and they are making that clear to everyone involved.

P.S. This link tells me that Jason Campbell will not be on our roster in 2010 if/when we draft a QB.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/23/AR2009042304673.html

[TheItalianStallion]

How long before we hear that jason is having a bad year because he needs time to learn the new system? Im sick and tired of hearing that excuse. Other QBs can succeed in their first year in a new system. Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez two recent ones.Sanchez sucked this past year - hell, Campbell played better in 2006 than Sanchez did in 2009. As for Ryan, he had a very good first year, but he didn't play well in 2009.

However, it wasn't just Campbell who was having issues with the new system in 2008 - the whole offense was having trouble with it, as illustrated by the fact that the receivers were often running the wrong routes.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

];7260209']If Shanahan and Allen thought that Campbell would play a key role in their offense for the next couple of years, would all of the haters still be pissed?
I have more faith in Shanahan and Allen then anyone ok ES. If they say Campbell is their guy, than so be it.

But if they want Bradford at #4 than that's great too.

Well the word IF has much significance here. What if they actually thought JC was remotly a solution at QB, wouldn't they try to get him signed to a reasonable extension before he goes wild and leads us to the playoffs and makes the pro bowl costing millions? [I know laughable]

Right now Campbell has to be their guy there is no one else, a 40 year old backup, and an unproven player in Colt who has yet to take a snap in the NFL and can't stay healthy, why is it a surprise that JC is the #1 option at this point of the year, when OTA's get on their way we will start to see things unfold for what they really are, so the lovefest can enjoy the tail end of the ride that is JC, because his tenure as an NFL QB is coming to an abrupt halt very soon.

[dahibachi]

i'm ok with keeping JC... i've liked the idea of either using the 4th pick to get Russel Okung or trading back from the spot to pick up a later 1st and maybe a 3rd rounder and picking another OT such as Bruce Campbell. If things don't work out with Campbell we can always draft a QB next year. A lot of people like Jake Locker more then either Bradford or Clausen anyway.

Way i see it... ideally we keep Campbell, cut Todd Collins, sign a vet QB who is familiar with the system then in the draft we get OL with 1st and 2nd picks and draft a RB later.

[Passizle]

If that happened the JC haters will be marching around Redskins Park with torches the first night of the draft.
All 7 of them. :)

[bubba9497]

other than Cutler, Shanny has preferred working with Veteran QB's

[JaimeDeCurry]

If nothing else than for the "sit back and watch ES burn itself to the ground" value, I hope we retain Campbell and don't draft his replacement.

[TheLongshot]

If Campbell's agent were smart, he would take this opportunity to ask for a long term deal and find the RFA tag offensive. That would mean that JC gets a contract from the Skins or they trade him to a team that will. I just don't see Campbell and his agent being ok with JC being a lame duck while a rookie QB comes in.

Remember last year, the word being floated was that Campbell would request a trade if we drafted Sanchez. I doubt he wouldn't request a trade if we take Bradford. If anything, they will take that stance on the contract by March 1 so that it will create a market for Campbell.

Possibly, tho that might have been a reaction to the way he was treated. He was stoic during all the Cutler talk, then he has a conversation with the FO about the situation that seemed to settle the matter, then the Sanchez rumors start and Campbell has issues. It tells me that maybe that he felt the FO wasn't straight with him.

So far, there seems to be a lot of verbal reaching out to Campbell, so it is unknown if things will repeat themselves.


Kurt Warner's retirement also helps us. That now means that Leinart is of the table. It also gives the Rams, 49ers, and Seahawks a sense of urgency to make a run at winning the division. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rams make a run at Vick.

If Leinart was going to be on the market, that would have happened long before this. Warner's retirement didn't affect that either way.


Whomever doesn't draft Jimmy Clausen between Seattle and Buffalo will also be candidates for JC. Seattle may pass on Clausen, but they need an heir/insurance policy for Hasselback. If Buffalo doesn't get Clausen, they could use a strong armed, mobile QB to fit Chan Gailey's offense and be effective in the elements.

Course, some of these teams (including ourselves) might pass on a QB and wait for the 2nd round. Plenty of teams have done that.

[leprecaun24]

Stop Gap.

I just can't see Shanny being that excited about working with JC.

Glad you can tell us what Shanahan is thinking. Are you "Shanny's" brother, best friend, or his lover?

[STBonecrusher21]

Glad you can tell us what Shanahan is thinking. Are you "Shanny's" brother, best friend, or his lover?

:paranoid:

[skinsfan913]

You guys are gonna be so sorry ala Trent Green and Brad Johnson when we let JC go! U wait and see! I always say, "Be careful what u ask for because you might just get it." Campbell is going to be a STUD whether it be here under Shanny & Son or winning accolades w another squad. Me, I prefer to see him doing it in burgundy and gold!! HTTR

[burgngold fan]

This is good news. Who knows, maybe JC blossoms under Shannahan and we win a chip. Just saying, it could happen. I am not a big fan of JC. Honestly I was upset when we drafted him. But to date he's the best QB we've drafted in the last decade, so I want to see what we have before we let him get away.
where have you been the last 4 years. lol sorry could not resist.

[SkinsGuy]

You guys are gonna be so sorry ala Trent Green and Brad Johnson when we let JC go! U wait and see! I always say, "Be careful what u ask for because you might just get it." Campbell is going to be a STUD whether it be here under Shanny & Son or winning accolades w another squad. Me, I prefer to see him doing it in burgundy and gold!! HTTR

Sure he will, since he has shown so much "studliness" here in FIVE YEARS. :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor and hold on to your post. That way, when you want to come to us this time next year and tell us about how Campbell's greatness will eventually surface, you won't have to re-write it. :)

[Ned Flanders]

Lol sorry, I had Moss_89 on espn message boards and had it here before they banned me for a sig that was too big.. I'll change my name after the draft.. I wasn't tryna rip u off..

Wait.......what?

[Chicken Fried]

Yeah...to me, all this says is "Redskins not showing their hand that they'll listen to trade offers for Campbell."
I hope this is the case. I can't take another year of JC at the helm.

[Jethrodsp]

Someone please give me a reasonable explanation as to why the upward trend Jason Campbell has been on his whole career will come to such an abrupt halt if he stays the Redskins starter next season. He will be working with a head coach who has an excellent track record with quarterbacks and offensive production in general. He has shown no signs that he is not continuing to improve and work on his game. His attitude has been nothing less than stellar despite the s*** storm that has circled this team for the past 18 months or so.

The only thing Jason seems to have done wrong is not become Peyton Manning or Tom Brady right out of the gate.

Where am I mistaken here? People would dump him for a 4th round pick?! It seems to le that Campbell was the only reason we got any production out of that dumpster fire of an offense we had last season at all.

Good grief.

[SkinsGuy]

I shake my head when people think that Shanahan couldn't POSSIBLY think that Campbell could be a good QB under him. All sort of people are twisting themselves in to knots to read something that so far isn't there.

What folks are rejecting is the notion that Shanahan has made up his mind already, which Schefter implies.

It wouldn't be a surprise if Campbell returned.

It WOULD be a surprise that if on January 28th, 2010, 8+ months before the start of the new season (this season isn't even finished yet :) ), Shanahan has aready decided his starting QB.

Which I seriously doubt he has done.

Particularly since we have heard from Shanahan's own lips (and not from a "source" like Schefter) that there will be a QB competition this year.

My feeling is Schefter overreached in his comments.

Campbell coming back? Very possible. As the starter? We'll see.


While there are no definites, QB is far from the biggest need on this team

In your opinion, which as as much validity on this matter as my opinion....

ZILCH. :)


and it has already been established that it is likely that OL and the running game will be the focus of this offseason.

Says who? Shanahan? Allen? They would be the only ones who would know what the top priorities will be since they are setting them.

And they aren't talking. :)

[JaimeDeCurry]

Agree 100% ... it is so obvous ... only the blind lovers can't see it ... they will tender him ... get no offers ... then release him.


I ... really like ... ellipses a lot ... they make me seem ... more wise ... than I actually am ...

[skinsfan190]

I don't think this is a suprise. He will be a redskins unless the rams, raiders, or someone gives up a 2nd rounder for him.

At the same time I think we will draft a QB at 4th overall. Jason needs to be pushed. If he plays well and the Rookie is promising we will be in a great situation.

[TheLongshot]

What folks are rejecting is the notion that Shanahan has made up his mind already, which Schefter implies.

It wouldn't be a surprise if Campbell returned.

It WOULD be a surprise that if on January 28th, 2010, 8+ months before the start of the new season (this season isn't even finished yet :) ), Shanahan has aready decided his starting QB.

Which I seriously doubt he has done.

Particularly since we have heard from Shanahan's own lips (and not from a "source" like Schefter) that there will be a QB competition this year.

My feeling is Schefter overreached in his comments.

Campbell coming back? Very possible. As the starter? We'll see.

If Campbell comes back, it is hard for me to believe that he doesn't start. Is anyone we draft in this draft going to be Peyton Manning good? Because that is what it probably would take for a rookie to start on day one. Also, when writers are talking about Daunte Culpepper likely to be the best FA QB out there, I don't see anyone via FA that will be better than Campbell.


In your opinion, which as as much validity on this matter as my opinion....

ZILCH. :)

No ****, really? I thought we were all bastions of the truth here, with full inter-working knowledge of this football team. :silly:

Of course it is an opinion. That's what we do here, express our opinions. But, it is an informed opinion based of the fact that our OL sucked last year. Despite what detractors say, Campbell doesn't suck.


Says who? Shanahan? Allen? They would be the only ones who would know what the top priorities will be since they are setting them.

And they aren't talking. :)

How about people who played with and coached against Shanahan?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/09/AR2010010902175.html

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not a JC backer or hater, somewhere in between. Funny reading some of the posts though of the JC detractors here, where it has to be that Shanny thinks exactly like them -- Shanny must think JC is garbage and wants to trade him, there could be absolutely no other explanation for this, etc.

Isn't at at least 50% likely that Shanny doesn't have a hidden agenda and things might actually appear as they seem? Yeah it could be a smoke screen -- just seems a reach to me that we can say with absolutely conviction that it is a smoke screen.

I am OK with whatever Shanny decides whether its ride with JC or dump him but I don't get all the confidence of people thinking that Shanny absolutely has a hidden agenda and of course that agenda absolutely to a tee of course fits the thoughts of JC's detractors.

[TK]

Lol sorry, I had Moss_89 on espn message boards and had it here before they banned me for a sig that was too big.. I'll change my name after the draft.. I wasn't tryna rip u off..
So I should look for you under a different name, after the Draft, right? Or will you be showing up in the new registration que as early as tomorrow? :)

[gortiz]

book it ... :chestram:

campbell is going to improve in every single relevant statiscal qb category (i.e. TD's, Yards, etc.) and throw less than 15 ints.


is that going out on a limb? :whoknows:

[ciresolstice]

Campbell is probably the best short term working scenario/solution until his successor is ready. If he excels so be it, that's good for him and good for us, if not his replacement will probably be drafted and groomed to take over in the near future.

[Santana_89]

You guys are gonna be so sorry ala Trent Green and Brad Johnson when we let JC go! U wait and see! I always say, "Be careful what u ask for because you might just get it." Campbell is going to be a STUD whether it be here under Shanny & Son or winning accolades w another squad. Me, I prefer to see him doing it in burgundy and gold!! HTTR


Hi Mercedes:) I realize Jason may be your STUD behind closed doors, but I have a hard time believing after 4 1/2 years the :idea: is suddenly going to come on for your man. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[Jethrodsp]

book it ... :chestram:

campbell is going to improve in every single relevant statiscal qb category (i.e. TD's, Yards, etc.) and throw less than 15 ints.


is that going out on a limb? :whoknows:

Based on his career arc so far, I think that is the most reasonable expectation we can have.

I guess that's just me though. I must be missing something right?

[DGREENHULK]

Ok now let's get some guys upfront to protect him :)

[kubstix]

I hope we retain JC. He is a good QB given help around him. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Rivers, Brees make the players around them better. Jason isn't this type of QB, but he could be great given some help by teamates. I compare JC to a Big Ben type. Big Ben holds onto the ball way to long so there Oline is not as terrible as people think it is. But they have a running game, and a great core of WR's. We have neither of the 3. Quite personally, I hope the first player on our squad thats dumped is Santana Moss. There is no ifs, ands, or buts...the dude plays for a paycheck and thats it. Very suprising to notice this the first game of the season. While Jason goofed by stepping over the LOS, all Moss had to do was stick a finger out to knock the ball down from being picked but instead he knew JC was over the line and gave up on the play. Much bigger problems than the QB position on this team. But the GM and Shanny know best and they will make the best possible decision for the team so I will back them no matter what happens. If JC ends up on another team, I will also make sure I watch him and hope he excels to shut the haters mouths.

[Fan since a Fetus]

ExtremeCampbell.com where the arguments are repetitious and no one wins. Pick a side.

I am pro-Campbell.

[wvtbred]

Someone please give me a reasonable explanation as to why the upward trend Jason Campbell has been on his whole career will come to such an abrupt halt if he stays the Redskins starter next season. He will be working with a head coach who has an excellent track record with quarterbacks and offensive production in general. He has shown no signs that he is not continuing to improve and work on his game. His attitude has been nothing less than stellar despite the s*** storm that has circled this team for the past 18 months or so.

The only thing Jason seems to have done wrong is not become Peyton Manning or Tom Brady right out of the gate.

Where am I mistaken here? People would dump him for a 4th round pick?! It seems to le that Campbell was the only reason we got any production out of that dumpster fire of an offense we had last season at all.

Good grief.

Are you watching the same games I am? BTW Jason did not improve overall last year so your so called upward trend is rising like a lead balloon.

I can't wait until he is gone and if he is around here for open competition I say he won't be able to handle it mentally.
:point2sky

[JaimeDeCurry]

Are you watching the same games I am? BTW Jason did not improve overall last year so your so called upward trend is rising like a lead balloon.

I can't wait until he is gone and if he is around here for open competition I say he won't be able to handle it mentally.
:point2sky

I know the hatred runs through you, my son, but how did Campbell not improve overall if his completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, and quarterback rating are all the best of his career while also being sacked a career high number of times?

[Jethrodsp]

BTW Jason did not improve overall last year so your so called upward trend is rising like a lead balloon.



Clever lead balloon quip but how do you figure?

[SkinsGuy]

If Campbell comes back, it is hard for me to believe that he doesn't start. Is anyone we draft in this draft going to be Peyton Manning good? Because that is what it probably would take for a rookie to start on day one. Also, when writers are talking about Daunte Culpepper likely to be the best FA QB out there, I don't see anyone via FA that will be better than Campbell.

The problem with that thinking is that it presumes to know what Shanahan's plans are, and that Campbell best fits it.

We don't know that. We don't know what Shanahan's plan is. Maybe Campbell will fit it. Or it may be some other QB on the team. Or some other QB not on the team yet.

Also, you say you can't see anyone out there that will be better than Campbell.

Better at WHAT? Winning? Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat on the last drive? Stirring leadership?

Campbell? Really? He has shown consistency in that? What has JC shown that no other QB can give them?



No ****, really? I thought we were all bastions of the truth here, with full inter-working knowledge of this football team. :silly:


Now you know better. :silly:


Of course it is an opinion. That's what we do here, express our opinions. But, it is an informed opinion based of the fact that our OL sucked last year. Despite what detractors say, Campbell doesn't suck.

No, Campbell blows. :D

I'm sure the o-line will be a priority this offseason. No doubt.

However, if anyone out there thinks that Shanahan's plan is to go into the season with Campbell, cross his fingers and hope for the best.... I doubt it. :)

For those that haven't been paying attention (not saying you haven't, just for those who haven't :) ), that has been our plan for the last 3 seasons.

Hasn't worked out real well. :doh:

My feeling is Shanahan/Allen are going to take a QB early.

Very early.

As in, "you can't leave him sitting on the bench for 4 years" early. :)

I think that will tell everyone (if it happens) what Shanahan thinks of Campbell. That he is not the future here.


How about people who played with and coached against Shanahan?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/09/AR2010010902175.html


That is still just conjecture and opinion. As we are giving.

One thing I do know is, is that if JC is not named the starter, he will be gone. He has already said that if he can't start, he wants to leave.

Sounds rather ridiculously petulant coming from a QB of a 4-12 team, but there you go.

[wvtbred]

Clever lead balloon quip but how do you figure?

First off you are very late to this discussion so it might save A LOT of time and yelling doing a search.

Secondly look here and the previous years are available too, enjoy :)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

[TheLongshot]

The problem with that thinking is that it presumes to know what Shanahan's plans are, and that Campbell best fits it.

We don't know that. We don't know what Shanahan's plan is. Maybe Campbell will fit it. Or it may be some other QB on the team. Or some other QB not on the team yet.

Well, if Campbell isn't in Shanahan's plans, he won't be here. Simple.

What I said is that if Campbell IS here, it would be hard to believe that he wouldn't start.


Also, you say you can't see anyone out there that will be better than Campbell.

Better at WHAT? Winning? Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat on the last drive? Stirring leadership?

Campbell? Really? He has shown consistency in that? What has JC shown that no other QB can give them?

It seems what most people have against Campbell is that so far he's been merely solid. For the detractors, that isn't nearly good enough. Course, never mind that he's probably the best QB this team has had in ten years. Never mind that he improves every year, even when the OL crumbles around him. Never mind that we haven't had a great QB in about 30 years and have managed to win three super bowls without a great QB.

I think a lot of you have forgotten what a bad QB looks like.


However, if anyone out there thinks that Shanahan's plan is to go into the season with Campbell, cross his fingers and hope for the best.... I doubt it. :)

For those that haven't been paying attention (not saying you haven't, just for those who haven't :) ), that has been our plan for the last 3 seasons.

Hasn't worked out real well. :doh:

I never said that we wouldn't draft a QB. What I said that unless the QB is Peyton Manning-like, I don't expect that he will start over Campbell.


That is still just conjecture and opinion. As we are giving.

Based on the past history of the head coach. It isn't like people are pulling that out of their ass.

[JaimeDeCurry]

First off you are very late to this discussion so it might save A LOT of time and yelling doing a search.

Secondly look here and the previous years are available too, enjoy :)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

I'm assuming you know how DYAR and DVOA work, and how they can't be accurately used to track a particular player's progress from year to year?

[wvtbred]

I'm assuming you know how DYAR and DVOA work, and how they can't be accurately used to track a particular player's progress from year to year?

ANY stat has it's issues so which ones is the other poster using to say Jason is on a upward trend? Maybe his won/lose record. :D

[JaimeDeCurry]

ANY stat has it's issues so which ones is the other poster using to say Jason is on a upward trend? Maybe his won/lose record. :D

Possibly the fact that his passing yards, completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, red zone efficiency and passer rating were all career highs despite only throwing one more pass than last season and being sacked a career-high amount of times, as well as having the worst complimentary running game of his career.

[erock353]

Someone please give me a reasonable explanation as to why the upward trend Jason Campbell has been on his whole career will come to such an abrupt halt if he stays the Redskins starter next season. He will be working with a head coach who has an excellent track record with quarterbacks and offensive production in general. He has shown no signs that he is not continuing to improve and work on his game. His attitude has been nothing less than stellar despite the s*** storm that has circled this team for the past 18 months or so.

The only thing Jason seems to have done wrong is not become Peyton Manning or Tom Brady right out of the gate.

Where am I mistaken here? People would dump him for a 4th round pick?! It seems to le that Campbell was the only reason we got any production out of that dumpster fire of an offense we had last season at all.

Good grief.



I couldn't agree with this more. I wish JC had been amazing in his first few years, but he hasn't. But, what I do know that it isn't entirely his fault. He has had almost no help with how this team should have been run, but yet he still is our best offensive player. And continues to get better every year. I'd love to see what he could do with a real coach in place like the one we have now. Lucky for us he is still young and not completely beat up from the punishment he has gone through the past years. And with that being said, I hope we still draft a QB this year, cause we need another one to sit and learn how this system works.


:helmet:

[DGREENHULK]

Ok now let's get some guys upfront to protect him :)

[Redskins4ever]

It's the right thing to keep Jason Campbell. As far as drafting a QB, it's all talk until it happens. The best option would be to use the 4th pick to trade down, and fill out the offensive line that is in desperate need of repair. The second round pick can be used on Colt McCoy, who is every bit of a talented QB as Sam Bradford.

It'll be interesting to see what Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan will do.

[Jethrodsp]

Its a noble task football insiders have taken on trying to suck more and more truth out of statistics but even they admit this:


Football Insiders
DVOA is still far away from the point where we can use it to represent the value of a player separate from the performance of his ten teammates that are also involved in each play. That means that when we say, "Larry Johnson has a DVOA of 27.6%," what we are really saying is "Larry Johnson, playing in the Kansas City offensive system with the Kansas City offensive line blocking for him and Matt Cassel selling the fake when necessary, has a DVOA of 27.6%."


Admittedly I view the more elementary statistics of yards, yards per play, completion percentage, and touchdowns per attempt through the lens of the offense's production as a whole. If Jason's production had declined at a similar rate to the offense's as a whole, my logical conclusion would be that he is a root cause for said decline. However while Jim Zorn's offensive system crumbled along with the offensive line and running game, Jason was able to still step his game up and post what I consider career best numbers overall. Rushing production was down. I think we can all agree Jason was under far more pressure on average than he was in '08 and yet was sacked only 5 more times. More was put on Jason's shoulders than ever in his career and he responded by showing the same steady improvement he has every year since he has been in the league.

By no means do I think Jason Campbell is a top 5 quarterback in the NFL. Honestly I doubt whether he has the potential to develop into a top 5 quarterback but I know this: even the most talented, top 5 pick "franchise quarterback" won't find lasting success in the NFL within the constant flux that the Redskins have experienced since Jason has come into the league.

Mike Shanahan is the most talented, innovative offensive coach Jason has ever played under. He has an excellent track record when it comes to getting the most out of his quarterback. Heck, look at Jay Cutler this season or Jake Plummer when he was in Denver. Frankly I don't see anything wrong with tendering Jason a one year offer to move into the Shanahan era as the Redskins starting quarterback and I take Coach's words at face value when he says he sees nice things in Campbell's play and is excited to work with him. Campbell has been nothing but a model citizen and a hard-worker since he has gotten to Ashburn and I don't think he has hit his ceiling as a player yet but I do think that Shanahan will get it out of him next season or in seasons beyond. What makes me rest comfortably is that when Shanahan sees that Jason has peaked in his development, he will be able to recognize that and decide whether its enough to take the Redskins to the promised land.

If its not, he'll move on...but not until he gets the whole picture.

[ciresolstice]

Possibly the fact that his passing yards, completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, red zone efficiency and passer rating were all career highs despite only throwing one more pass than last season and being sacked a career-high amount of times, as well as having the worst complimentary running game of his career.


notice your lil buddy never replies to that and just spouts off about something not related to what you keep repeating.

[Drastik]

Campbell clearly improved last season.

[JaimeDeCurry]

notice your lil buddy never replies to that and just spouts off about something not related to what you keep repeating.

Meh. I mean, I have no illusions thinking that Campbell is going to magically turn into Manning or Brady overnight. But I think taking a step back and looking at it logically, to assume that someone who has improved every year will not continue to do so underneath a head coach and offensive coordinator who have proven track records regarding quarterback play...I just can't get behind that.

I'm a firm believer that football starts at the ball and works outward. Offensive line rejuvenation is what this team needs, especially with the style of offense that Shanahan likes to run.

[Mooka]

Summary: Jason Campbell is their best option. Won't stop them from drafting a QB early.


Not exactly breaking news.

[elkabong82]

Zorn's comments on Campbell at the Senior Bowl: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=316429

[skinfan2k]

Shanny is really tight with Adam. Dont be suprised if Schefter is playing along with Shanny and trying to create this buzz about Campbell

[zskins]

JC haters need to keep from getting their panties in a bunch over this. He'll be here one year while whichever QB we draft is being developed, then he's gone.

If I was JC I would push the FO to trade me to a team where I might have a long term starting situation. No way in hell JC is going to play babysitter to a QB waiting in the wing. Plus he won't be playing with a true heart knowing he is gone after 1 year anyway.

[JaimeDeCurry]

Shanny is really tight with Adam. Dont be suprised if Schefter is playing along with Shanny and trying to create this buzz about Campbell

Ever heard of Occam's razor?

[Mooka]

Shanny is really tight with Adam. Dont be suprised if Schefter is playing along with Shanny and trying to create this buzz about Campbell "Initially, Jason Campbell is probably your best option going forward for this season."

There's no buzz.

[skinfan2k]

"Initially, Jason Campbell is probably your best option going forward for this season."

There's no buzz.


i mean shanny is publicly endorsing him hoping to trade him or get some value for him after they tender him

[Llevron]

Are you watching the same games I am? BTW Jason did not improve overall last year so your so called upward trend is rising like a lead balloon.

I can't wait until he is gone and if he is around here for open competition I say he won't be able to handle it mentally.
:point2sky


I know your really against him having any kind of success as a Redskin, but try to at least keep your arguments grounded in reality. Hes has, statistically, improved in EVERY STAT outside of his sacks given up and turnovers. Hell even in overall QB rankings hes gone up :ols:

And the open competition that you think he isn't mentally prepared for cant even compare to the crap he went through last off-season.

My advice for you would be to hope for a trade or pick another team to watch cause 17 will be back starting for the good guys in 2010 otherwise.

[Snyder & Co.]

I just don't see a team giving up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Campbell. St. Louis needs a QB and say they wanted to trade for Campbell, they're not going to give up the #1 pick in the 2nd or 3rd round for him. At best, Campbell could pull a mid-4th round pick to early 5th round pick.

I would love to see Allen pull a Parcells on Cerrato type of move; however, there aren't many, if any, GM's that are as incompetent as what Vinny was.


A 4th or 5th rounder at best? You're a frickin joke.

[F-16 CHIEF]

Well, count me out.

I didn't watch any of Campbell playing this year and I certainly won't waste my time next year watching a hopeless experiment collapse.

I'm still willing to bet that he's not your starter next year.

[KokoMike]

I want the Redskins to win, period.

I have just not enjoyed watching the Redskins offense led by Campbell, and his leadership has never given me confidence that he is a game winner. We haven't won enough with him at QB. While a lot of people claim the OL is responsible for Campbell failings, there have been many games that he could have engineered victory. He didn't, in most of these games, show any sense of how to win the games.

So, as far as I am concerned, his continuation on the Skins will open the door for another quarterback to lead this team, and that guy could be Colt Brennan.

I'll agree with anybody who says Colt Brennan has not proven he is a starter in the NFL.
I'll also agree with anybody who says Campbell has leveled off in the zone of mediocrity.

Keeping Campbell will result in a change at the starting QB position, just as much as not keeping him will. That is my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

[TheLongshot]

Shanny is really tight with Adam. Dont be suprised if Schefter is playing along with Shanny and trying to create this buzz about Campbell

Or maybe that he just has insight to what Shanny might be thinking. Occam's razor is your friend.

[thesubmittedone]

Meh. I mean, I have no illusions thinking that Campbell is going to magically turn into Manning or Brady overnight. But I think taking a step back and looking at it logically, to assume that someone who has improved every year will not continue to do so underneath a head coach and offensive coordinator who have proven track records regarding quarterback play...I just can't get behind that.

I'm a firm believer that football starts at the ball and works outward. Offensive line rejuvenation is what this team needs, especially with the style of offense that Shanahan likes to run.


Very few people do, but for some odd reason, whenever anyone tries to look at Jason with detached emotions as you are so logically doing, they can't help but see a lot of good albeit with some key negatives. Hopefully, as you stated, Shanahan can help fix them once and for all.

Unfortunately for all of us, when anyone does see the good Campbell brings to the table, they get labeled as one who can only see good when it comes to Campbell, yet the truth of the matter is those types are few and far in between whereas those who view Campbell as one of the worst QBs are far more numerous and vocal.

[grego]

Well, count me out.

I didn't watch any of Campbell playing this year and I certainly won't waste my time next year watching a hopeless experiment collapse.

I'm still willing to bet that he's not your starter next year.

you didnt watch him play, but you think he's hopeless?

[darrelgreenie]

Unfortunately for all of us, when anyone does see the good Campbell brings to the table, they get labeled as one who can only see good when it comes to Campbell, yet the truth of the matter is those types are few and far in between whereas those who view Campbell as one of the worst QBs are far more numerous and vocal.

Those who view Campbell as one of the worst QBs in the NFL aren't as numerous as they seem.

In this extreme forum they are over-represented because of how vocal and die-hard they've been in expressing their dislike for Campbell.

In this extreme forum they can attack people who disagree with their notion that Campbell is one of the worst QBs in the NFL with spurios logic at best.

And they've felt the need to hijack any thread that includes a positive statement about Campbell with their tired rhetoric.

They also go so far as to contrive intricate reasons why any positive statement about Campbell are part of a plan to raise his trade value.

But, despite all these tactics i think the majority of Redskin's fans realize that JC is a decent QB that can play his way into becoming part of the Redskins future.


HTTR!

[REEGSKINS]

this is great news. i think campbell is a good coach away from be a very good qb.

[MDstar08]

this is great news. i think campbell is a good coach away from be a very good qb.

It most definitely is! I believe the Shanahan's can really get Campbell to the next level!

[darrelgreenie]

Ever heard of Occam's razor?


Or maybe that he just has insight to what Shanny might be thinking. Occam's razor is your friend.

Don't you know that Occam's razor doesn't apply when it comes to any statement even remotely positive about Jason Campbell?

[Portis N Pals]

If a new coach can teach Campbell how to throw an accurate deep ball, I'm all for keeping him as our starter. But as is, I think we're much better off starting over, even with a rookie. It sure didn't kill the Ravens and Falcons last year, or the Jets this year.

[DGREENHULK]

I think darrelgreenie sumed it up best in post 121....any JC positive news is toxic to the JC frown club and they will spin it anyway they can until it fits their agenda imo.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

this is great news. i think campbell is a good coach away from be a very good qb.

Has any one in the Campbell camp given thought to the possibility that JC has had 2 good coaches in whom his inability to become even an average QB has cost them their jobs. Gibbs basically got out of town rather than continue on with him, and who really knows what kind of head coach Zorn could possibly be? He was an apparent guru with QB's before he ran into JC, perhaps Zorn was able to get the very best out of JC and it's all down hill from here?

But because JC failed under Gibbs we can't possibly consider him a good coach now can we?

[SAli457180]

It's funny how Campbell could become the veteran stop-gap and also the guy who has a lot of potential.

[pilsburypgh]

I don't think we will have that excuse this year, since we are sticking with a variation of the WCO. The question is going to be, is the OL going to be good enough?

And you think Sanchez had a good season? He was one of the worst QBs in the NFL last season.

Oh my! You mean theres already excuses lined up for JC again? Man Shanny get rid of this dude.

[Jeeb]

Has any one in the Campbell camp given thought to the possibility that JC has had 2 good coaches in whom his inability to become even an average QB has cost them their jobs. Gibbs basically got out of town rather than continue on with him, and who really knows what kind of head coach Zorn could possibly be? He was an apparent guru with QB's before he ran into JC, perhaps Zorn was able to get the very best out of JC and it's all down hill from here?

But because JC failed under Gibbs we can't possibly consider him a good coach now can we?

I'm sure the whole season JC started under Gibbs made him want to leave the team. Thanks for that tidbit of information based on absolutely nothing..I'm completely sold on getting rid of him now.

[helmanan]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

In the case where he is traded, who do you propose to stick at the QB position? The FA market certainly isn't the way to go. And if you're looking to get anybody through a trade, you're still looking at surrendering draft picks. So essentially you'd be getting draft picks and then trading them away, which would be a "de ja vu all over again" moment for the team, unless of course you want to hand the keys to the most important position on the field to a third year player with no starting experience or a rookie with no starting experience, take your pick. And please don't mention Todd Collins as a stop-gap till they groom the QB of the future.

Going for another QB would strap the franchise at least for the short-term and set back any efforts to be competitve this coming season. Stick with Jason, give him some stability and watch what he can do under a credible coach and a proven system.

[pilsburypgh]

Has any one in the Campbell camp given thought to the possibility that JC has had 2 good coaches in whom his inability to become even an average QB has cost them their jobs. Gibbs basically got out of town rather than continue on with him, and who really knows what kind of head coach Zorn could possibly be? He was an apparent guru with QB's before he ran into JC, perhaps Zorn was able to get the very best out of JC and it's all down hill from here?

But because JC failed under Gibbs we can't possibly consider him a good coach now can we?
Thank you! And Shanny is gonna be the next victim if he keeps JC at QB. Shanny im telling you, you better get rid of this guy, hes gonna make your offense look below average trust me. His stats will look OK but you will not be able to move the ball consistently and you will not put up points and its gonna make it look like the problem is elsewhere, But its him. I never believed in a coach killer but I do now. There is a reason why this guy is always switching coaches and coordinators. Dates all the way back to his college career. Every body seems to point fingers at everybody except him.

[mistertim]

Thank you! And Shanny is gonna be the next victim if he keeps JC at QB. Shanny im telling you, you better get rid of this guy, hes gonna make your offense look below average trust me. His stats will look OK but you will not be able to move the ball consistently and you will not put up points and its gonna make it look like the problem is elsewhere, But its him. I never believed in a coach killer but I do now. There is a reason why this guy is always switching coaches and coordinators. Dates all the way back to his college career. Every body seems to point fingers at everybody except him.




Thank you, pilsburypgh. We will take your...expertise in the matter into consideration while we work on running an actual football team. Feel free to drop us a line any time. We appreciate your...valuable insight.

[pilsburypgh]

In the case where he is traded, who do you propose to stick at the QB position? The FA market certainly isn't the way to go. And if you're looking to get anybody through a trade, you're still looking at surrendering draft picks. So essentially you'd be getting draft picks and then trading them away, which would be a "de ja vu all over again" moment for the team, unless of course you want to hand the keys to the most important position on the field to a third year player with no starting experience or a rookie with no starting experience, take your pick. And please don't mention Todd Collins as a stop-gap till they groom the QB of the future.

Going for another QB would strap the franchise at least for the short-term and set back any efforts to be competitve this coming season. Stick with Jason, give him some stability and watch what he can do under a credible coach and a proven system.TC is a perfect fit for starter while an rookie QB sits. TC actually reads defenses, is accurate and most of all can win some games. Now I rather a rookie QB learn those things. Now what can a rookie learn from watching JC? Its better when a rookie QB learn under a successful QB than a below average one. Im sure phillp rivers and Aaron rodgers learned a lot more than they would had sitting back watchin a guy look clueless. Plus JC dont know how to finish games, he doesent show up on nationally televised games, and most of all hes a loser. His winning percentage is horrible. We just lose when hes in. Now that! I dont want a rookie to learn.

[mistertim]

TC is a perfect fit for starter while an rookie QB sits. TC actually reads defenses, is accurate and most of all can win some games. Now I rather a rookie QB learn those things. Now what can a rookie learn from watching JC? Its better when a rookie QB learn under a successful QB than a below average one. Im sure phillp rivers and Aaron rodgers learned a lot more than they would had sitting back watchin a guy look clueless. Plus JC dont know how to finish games, he doesent show up on nationally televised games, and most of all hes a loser. His winning percentage is horrible. We just lose when hes in. Now that! I dont want a rookie to learn.

And you're assuming Collins would survive an entire season behind a very rebuilding OL? He has zero escapability. He would be a sitting duck back there. I shudder to think what could happen to him after taking some of the hits that JC took and was able to absorb. And...I hope you didn't just compare Todd Collins to Drew Brees and Brett Favre.

[gorebd82]

In the case where he is traded, who do you propose to stick at the QB position? The FA market certainly isn't the way to go. And if you're looking to get anybody through a trade, you're still looking at surrendering draft picks. So essentially you'd be getting draft picks and then trading them away, which would be a "de ja vu all over again" moment for the team, unless of course you want to hand the keys to the most important position on the field to a third year player with no starting experience or a rookie with no starting experience, take your pick. And please don't mention Todd Collins as a stop-gap till they groom the QB of the future.

Going for another QB would strap the franchise at least for the short-term and set back any efforts to be competitve this coming season. Stick with Jason, give him some stability and watch what he can do under a credible coach and a proven system.

Actually, it hit me recently that a low key candidate could be Brian Griese. He's only been out of football one year. He'll be 35 and has performed at a Pro Bowl level in Shanahan's offense. He may have something left in the tank a la Kerry Collins. He also has a history with Bruce Allen and I think maybe Kyle Shanahan.

[mistertim]

Actually, it hit me recently that a low key candidate could be Brian Griese. He's only been out of football one year. He'll be 35 and has performed at a Pro Bowl level in Shanahan's offense. He may have something left in the tank a la Kerry Collins. He also has a history with Bruce Allen and I think maybe Kyle Shanahan.

That is a pretty risky proposition, especially if you get rid of Campbell. Griese is 35, hasn't taken a snap since the 2008 season, and even then had crap numbers. Sure, he had success when he was younger with Shanny but I have a feeling his best days are way behind him.

[gorebd82]

That is a pretty risky proposition, especially if you get rid of Campbell. Griese is 35, hasn't taken a snap since the 2008 season, and even then had crap numbers. Sure, he had success when he was younger with Shanny but I have a feeling his best days are way behind him.

Health-wise, its a risk. But you handle that by keeping around another quality QB. I think a depth chart of Griese, Collins, and Bradford would be great. You get two great tutors for Bradford.

Griese would know the offense like the back of his hand and be light years beyond what Campbell's understanding of the system would be. The entire offense would benefit from his knowledge of the system.

As far as the physical concerns go, that's why you keep two vets. If Griese goes down, ride out Collins. If both of them go down, it will at least be halfway into the season and Bradford will have some coaching under his belt.

[Hubbs]

It's like every offseason is Groundhog Day.

[mistertim]

Health-wise, its a risk. But you handle that by keeping around another quality QB. I think a depth chart of Griese, Collins, and Bradford would be great. You get two great tutors for Bradford.

Griese would know the offense like the back of his hand and be light years beyond what Campbell's understanding of the system would be. The entire offense would benefit from his knowledge of the system.

As far as the physical concerns go, that's why you keep two vets. If Griese goes down, ride out Collins. If both of them go down, it will at least be halfway into the season and Bradford will have some coaching under his belt.

I suppose I could see it as a possibility. I just have a hard time imagining Shanny taking such a risk when they could retain Campbell for relatively cheap. And even if Griese were "light years" beyind Campbell's understanding (not a foregone conclusion since Griese hasn't even played since 08 and hasn't been with Shanny for a while) that isn't going to help him if he is on his back most of the time. So you'd have a 35 year old guy with experience in Shanny's system but who hasn't played a game in a couple years and a 38 year old career backup with no experience in it. Then a rookie with no NFL experience at all. Any of them behind our line, even if it is rebuilding, would be an atrocity waiting to happen, IMO.

[gorebd82]

I suppose I could see it as a possibility. I just have a hard time imagining Shanny taking such a risk when they could retain Campbell for relatively cheap. And even if Griese were "light years" beyind Campbell's understanding (not a foregone conclusion since Griese hasn't even played since 08 and hasn't been with Shanny for a while) that isn't going to help him if he is on his back most of the time. So you'd have a 35 year old guy with experience in Shanny's system but who hasn't played a game in a couple years and a 38 year old career backup with no experience in it. Then a rookie with no NFL experience at all. Any of them behind our line, even if it is rebuilding, would be an atrocity waiting to happen, IMO.

I'd rather do that than have Campbell on his back and thinking about how we turned down a 3rd round pick. Jason would have to have a Pro Bowl type season for it to be worth keeping him around. If he plays like crap, he walks and we get nothing. If he plays well, but not outstanding, we wouldn't tag him. He would have to play at a Pro Bowl level for us to justify spending a franchise tag on him and someone wanting to trade for him. But considering the state our line, that's not likely. So we should trade JC, let Griese take the beating and play tutor so that Sam Bradford will be prepared to play behind a rebuilt line in 2011.

[Newera]

We will know the truth during free agency. It's common sense to tender him. But if the Skins take a quarterback in rounds one or two -- Jason's future will be that of a caretaker for a year.

It reminds me of what the Giants did when they had Warner. They started him the first half of the season and then went to Manning when their record was only 4-3. The rookie will be the future.

Also, the Redskins don't want to let Jason just walk for nothing. The key is will someone make Jason an offer and force us to match it. If he does not get an offer. That tells you a lot about his real value around the league.

Time will tell.

[bedlamVR]

I think the Skins are in a tricky position .

If there is no CBA then the Skins can just tender Campbell for one year and either pick Bradford OR posture as if that is their intention to invoke a trade .

However ... what if there is an 11th hour deal ? What if 2010 is the first year of a new deal ? Then Campbell will be a UFA so the Skins would have to ink him to a longer deal or use the expensive franchise TAG to keep him or he will walk and be the best FA on the market .

If they do extend Campbell for more than a year people will think that they know something about Bradfords shoulder and infer that we will not be picking him at 4 making it more difficult to trade back ...

Hmm tricky

[Newera]

I think the Skins are in a tricky position .

If there is no CBA then the Skins can just tender Campbell for one year and either pick Bradford OR posture as if that is their intention to invoke a trade .

However ... what if there is an 11th hour deal ? What if 2010 is the first year of a new deal ? Then Campbell will be a UFA so the Skins would have to ink him to a longer deal or use the expensive franchise TAG to keep him or he will walk and be the best FA on the market .

If they do extend Campbell for more than a year people will think that they know something about Bradfords shoulder and infer that we will not be picking him at 4 making it more difficult to trade back ...

Hmm tricky

I think if that is the case. You have to let him walk.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

I'm sure the whole season JC started under Gibbs made him want to leave the team. Thanks for that tidbit of information based on absolutely nothing..I'm completely sold on getting rid of him now.

Really? Does anyone in the JC lovefest ever bother to look at the win lose record?

Rest assured, if you can't figure out how bad JC is by watching him, there is absolutly no way I would ever get through to you!

Does anyone think Gibbs was going to stick around knowing what he gave up to get Brunell with picks and 43 million for his putrid play, to have to turn around and explain how he gave up as much as he did for JC, and the guy doesn't belong on the field? That's a tough situation to endure for anyone. Gibbs cost the team an awful lot with his decision making on personnel only to watch a journeyman QB in Collins in 4 games outplay both of them.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

And you're assuming Collins would survive an entire season behind a very rebuilding OL? He has zero escapability. He would be a sitting duck back there. I shudder to think what could happen to him after taking some of the hits that JC took and was able to absorb. And...I hope you didn't just compare Todd Collins to Drew Brees and Brett Favre.

When you can actually read a defense you don't have to hold the ball for extended time trying to figure out whats going on in front of you, a smart QB gets rid of the ball, by shear command of his offense, and his understanding of defenses Collins would cut down on the sacks regardless of how bad the O-line is.

Lets also be real about this big time mobility JC is supposed to have? Yes he has the ability but doesn't take much advantage of it, and he has absolutly no pocket presence whatsoever, most QB's move away from pressure, he either just stands there, or moves into it. Problem here is everyone in Redskin land is so used to watching incompetent QB play they have forgotten what a good QB looks like. Then for whatever reason there is this unrelenting driving force to make JC a legitimate QB, where was this type of dedication to make Zorn a legitimate head coach? Year 6 coming up.:doh:

Year 6? How horrible are we as an organization to actually devote 6 years to this clown of a QB?

[KokoMike]

I think we are using, with new management, a totally different approach.

Instead of publicly shopping Campbell, instead of going after other QBs, we are taking the position that we want him. It is all about leverage.

I'm with new management.

We love you, Jason Campbell. You really are a starting QB in the NFL. We would never consider you to be a backup.

Any offers yet?

[mistertim]

When you can actually read a defense you don't have to hold the ball for extended time trying to figure out whats going on in front of you, a smart QB gets rid of the ball, by shear command of his offense, and his understanding of defenses Collins would cut down on the sacks regardless of how bad the O-line is.

Um. In the very limited number of snaps that Collins took this past season he got sacked 3 times and hit just as much as Campbell when he was in. Stop acting like the guy is Peyton Manning who destroys you if you bring pressure. When he was in he got pressured plenty and overall looked absolutely no better than Campbell.

[DMVSkins]

Hes QB by default due to a lack of a better option, not because he earned it.

He is gone as soon as his successor is ready

Week 8 next season is my prediction

[redskins55]

I shake my head when people think that Shanahan couldn't POSSIBLY think that Campbell could be a good QB under him. All sort of people are twisting themselves in to knots to read something that so far isn't there.

While there are no definites, QB is far from the biggest need on this team and it has already been established that it is likely that OL and the running game will be the focus of this offseason.

The voice of reason..

There is to much talent in this draft to blow the fine opportunity to add picks. If we dont address the o-line,linebackers, and running backs then that proves we havent learned anything. We will be the same old dumb Washington Redskins. We've only got 5 picks we need to gain more and fix these gaping holes. Drafting a QB wont do anything for us right now unless Bradfor or Clausen blow minds at the combine and personal workout sessions. I'd like a franchise QB but not sure about this class and their ability.

[wvtbred]

Possibly the fact that his passing yards, completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, red zone efficiency and passer rating were all career highs despite only throwing one more pass than last season and being sacked a career-high amount of times, as well as having the worst complimentary running game of his career.

Yet he still lead (so called lead) us to a 4-12 record. I still don't get how you don't see the fact he can't play at NFL speed. He doesn't have the mental speed, not saying he is stupid. Plenty of very intelligent guys can't play at NFL speed and Jason is exactly that.

BTW all of this talk "can't" be to boost his stock could it? Maybe try to boost his trade value from a 4th rounder to a low third?

God I hope the CBA gets signed because if it does there is no way he signs back with us after we draft a QB.
:beatdeadhorse:

[Skinz4Life12]

Not a bad idea. No harm in bringing him back next year. I still think we end up drafting a QB though. That way we have a back up plan if things don't work out with Campbell.

i thought that is what the almighty colt is for

[Skinz4Life12]

Week 8 next season is my prediction

didn't you say that last season?

[wvtbred]

didn't you say that last season?

As did about 100 others. Can't believe we are evening thinking of going there again.
For our and Jason's benefit we need to end this and move on. That way we both get fresh starts.

[gorebd82]

Shanahan said Jason will be here, but no one is talking about whether Jason will want to be here. Shanny is just saying what he's supposed to, but when he drafts a QB, Jason Campbell will ask for a trade. That's what he was going to do if we had drafted Mark Sanchez last year. If he asks for a trade, I'm sure that Shanny will gladly grant it.

[wvtbred]

Shanahan said Jason will be here, but no one is talking about whether Jason will want to be here. Shanny is just saying what he's supposed to, but when he drafts a QB, Jason Campbell will ask for a trade. That's what he was going to do if we had drafted Mark Sanchez last year. If he asks for a trade, I'm sure that Shanny will gladly grant it.

Could be a day two of the draft trade. We take our qb in 1 then Jason cries all night tells his agent he wants out and we get a 4th for him the next day.

[LetThePointsSoar]

As did about 100 others. Can't believe we are evening thinking of going there again.
For our and Jason's benefit we need to end this and move on. That way we both get fresh starts.

Agreed - I'm gonna crack more than a few cold ones the day I learn Jason Campbell never takes a snap under a Skins center again...

[SkinsGuy]

Oh my! You mean theres already excuses lined up for JC again? Man Shanny get rid of this dude.


It may be only January, but the excuses are already lined up all the way around the block. :D

It puts the lie to the more ardent of Campbell supporters, who were right there agreeing with the rest of us in 2009 that that was Campbell's "last chance". He had to show something or he was gone.

Well, the 2009 season is over and Campbell showed nothing (or very very little).

Even in the thing his supporters like to tout the most, his stats, he was very pedestrian. At best, he was just middle of the road.

And as anybody who watches football knows, stats don't tell the whole story. :)

The NFL's history is littered with games where the team with the better stats at the end of the game loses b/c there overall play and execution was poor.

That right there pretty much sums up Campbell's tenure as QB of the Redskins. He is a QB that can SOMETIMES put up decent stats (particularly once the game is out of reach :D ), but his overall play is poor enough and the numerous flaws in his game negate what little positives he has, resulting in a losing QB.

Unfortunately, if he is the team's starter next season, the excuses will come quick.

First it will be 'It's not JC's fault. Mike Shanahan is too conservative'. Just like Gibbs was..... and Zorn. :doh:

Then it will be 'It's not JC's fault. Kyle Shanahan is calling lousy games'. Just like Gibbs did.... and Saunders.... and Zorn.... and Lewis. :doh:

Then it will be 'It's not JC's fault. Those WR's are terrible. McCardell can't coach worth a darn'. Just like Hixon. :doh:

And, of course, there is the old standby.... 'How can JC do anything when is behind the WORST O-LINE OF ALL THE TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE NFL!?!'.

You can set your watch to it. :)

If Campbell does stick around, I expect it to work like that. First will come the insistance from his supporters that this is his 'last chance to show something'. Then the excuses, then the insistance he get 'just one more year'. :doh:

Hopefully, Shanahan just bypasses all this and deals Campbell somewhere.

[gorebd82]

Could be a day two of the draft trade. We take our qb in 1 then Jason cries all night tells his agent he wants out and we get a 4th for him the next day.

I believe he'll get traded before the end of the first round. Joel Segal is his agent and he's no rookie to the game. After last year and the rumors about Bradford, he will be talking to teams about acquiring Jason and negotiating contracts. He will be free to do that because Jason is a RFA. He will be completely prepared for the scenario of Sam Bradford getting drafted. As soon as the Skins make the pick, he will jump on the phone and request a trade.

Also, I'm sure he knows what teams to speak with. He will shop JC to the Bills, Seahawks, Rams, Browns, etc. These teams will gather info on Campbell as an option. When Seattle or Buffalo don't get Clausen, or when the Bills or Rams don't get Vick, then Jason Campbell become an option. He's an attractive commodity because there are more available jobs than quality candidates for starting QB positions.

Teams will be more willing to give up a 3rd for JC than spend an early 2nd on Colt McCoy. With RFA, there just aren't many easy options to improve a team. Campbell will be a bargain player considering that guys like Boldin and Marshall and McNabb will have such high price tags as far as salary and draft pick compensation.

[SkinsGuy]

It's like every offseason is Groundhog Day.

Read my post above. :D

As long as the team keeps JC around, every offseason WILL be like Groundhog Day.

[skinsfan3880]

Just a question whats gonna be the cleanup costs for the exploding heads ala scanners should campbell stay and be productive?????? I believe some people will have full frontal lobe blowouts should that happen.

[darrelgreenie]

BTW all of this talk "can't" be to boost his stock could it? Maybe try to boost his trade value from a 4th rounder to a low third?

LoL, can you explain how Shanahan and Shefty are in collusion to lol, 'boost' JC's trade value?

Can you also explain the notion that talk is gonna actually 'raise' the trade value of a player currently in the NFL?

And why don't we similiarly raise the trade value of: Clinton Portis or Randy Thomas or Randle EL or Carlos Rogers?

[SkinsGuy]

Just a question whats gonna be the cleanup costs for the exploding heads ala scanners should campbell stay and be productive?????? I believe some people will have full frontal lobe blowouts should that happen.


Another one who should save this post for next offseason, b/c you'll be asking us the same thing if Campbell sticks around.

The better question is what will his more ardent supporters do when he is cut/traded from this team and fades away like Patrick Ramsey?

Are they finally going to explain to us just what they see in him and why they are so obsessed with keeping him around?

Cause it sure as heck can't have anything to do with football b/c they guy has never come close to doing anything.

Yet they want to paint him as if he is like Archie Manning on a bad Saints team.

Campbell is no Manning. :D

Many of these same people go over to the ATN board and laugh at the Cowboys thinking they are ever going to win anything with a choking Romo.

Yet they think the Redskins have a future wih JC (who he himself has showed he crumbles in big games and big-game situations).

It really makes no sense to me.

[gorebd82]

His value is what it is. This statement won't boost his stock. This is just the PC thing to do. Its saying that Jason Campbell will not walk away for free.

[SittingBull]

Haha, they've also announced that James Thrash is unretiring and that we're definitely keeping him!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

LoL, can you explain how Shanahan and Shefty are in collusion to lol, 'boost' JC's trade value?

Collusion? It only takes one party (the Redskins) to tell Schefter that they plan to start Campbell next season. This gets reported and it gives the Redskins some leverage if they end up entertaining offers for Campbell. It's better than openly saying you're not happy with your QB. If you do that, then who would give you anything for him?


Can you also explain the notion that talk is gonna actually 'raise' the trade value of a player currently in the NFL?

See above. It won't all of sudden get the Redskins a first for Campbell, but it makes any negotiations more even since you haven't come out and said that you plan to start Brennan or a rookie next year. When negotiating with other teams, you're discussing a starting player and not someone on the scrap heap. I'm not really sure how this is difficult to understand.


And why don't we similiarly raise the trade value of: Clinton Portis or Randy Thomas or Randle EL or Carlos Rogers?

They don't really need to. Portis and Rogers are established starters. Randle-El is who he is and Thomas is a mess with injuries.

[SonnyJ]

With RFA, there just aren't many easy options to improve a team.

When has Campbell ever shown that he'll improve a team? :confused:


It may be only January, but the excuses are already lined up all the way around the block. :D...

You neglected to mention the ol' "it's a new system" argument. Really, as often as that one has been trotted out, you would think it laughable that Campbell would be kept around as a stop-gap.

Seriously, truly keeping Campbell around as a viable starting QB contender will shake my less than ardent faith in Shanahan^2/Allen. JMO - I do not have blind faith in them, and this is one issue that I consider a barometer. It's blatantly ignoring fundamental flaws that several different others have been unable to overcome.

Campbell may very well, one day, be all that and a bag of chips. I've often thought that a long period on the bench, closely observing a QB executing his fundamental understanding of the game/position, might be exactly what Campbell needs. One, it's a sharp slap in the face that he desperately needs, as he has never earned the starting position. Two, it would give him a chance to step back and attempt to comprehend how guile, craftiness, and technique can be used as the primary weapons to combat a defense. You know, small stuff like using hard counts to slow down a pass rush. It certainly won't address his basic ball placement flaws, but it sure would help him be a better QB.

In any case, I don't really consider this blurb from Schefter to be of any significant meaning at this point in the game.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Seriously, truly keeping Campbell around as a viable starting QB contender will shake my less than ardent faith in Shanahan^2/Allen. JMO - I do not have blind faith in them, and this is one issue that I consider a barometer. It's blatantly ignoring fundamental flaws that several different others have been unable to overcome.



See...I'm on board that we need a new QB and will be perfectly happy to see Campbell traded. However, I'm not going to jump off a bridge if they tender him and are forced to keep him at a reasonable price.

If they do, I think you go into TC with Campbell, Brennan, and the rookie (Bradford) in a three-way QB competition.

[Geneva]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

[darrelgreenie]

His value is what it is. This statement won't boost his stock. This is just the PC thing to do. Its saying that Jason Campbell will not walk away for free.

See this is a more true statement.
What that other dude posted is not.
Or Shanahan could simply be telling the truth.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

They have to retain him in order to have the right to trade him.

[Geneva]

Hope that we can make a trade for JC. However, I think a 3rd round pick is the best that we can hope for.

[SonnyJ]

See...I'm on board that we need a new QB and will be perfectly happy to see Campbell traded. However, I'm not going to jump off a bridge if they tender him and are forced to keep him at a reasonable price.

If they do, I think you go into TC with Campbell, Brennan, and the rookie (Bradford) in a three-way QB competition.

I get tendering him - just to keep all your options open while hoping you get some sort of trade offer for him.

I could see bringing him in as part of an open competition - but you already have two guys under contract, neither of which have been given nearly the rope or opportunity that Campbell has. If you bring Campbell in to compete, you have to get rid of one of them - I don't think you can have a competition amongst more than 2 QBs, just not enough reps to go around. You have plenty of evidence of what Campbell can and can't do. To get rid of one of the other guys for Campbell is to either think they cannot provide what Campbell currently can, or that you can teach Campbell to do better. Both notions I roundly reject, especially taking into account Campbell's well-documented struggles at learning new systems.

To assume that you will improve Campbell's game-day QB skills is pure folly. From everything we've heard, he is already a diligent worker off the field, so there is no improvement to be gained there. Where is the improvement going to come from? Other parts of the team will help Campbell improve? Sure, but so would they for a different QB, so that is no argument for retaining Campbell. You're still going to have a guy that has shown that he can't be reliably leaned on to win games - at some point, you're going to run into opposing defenses that force the QB to make plays under duress. I know Campbell does not excel in these situations, I think Collins can mentally handle it, and I have no clue as to what Brennan can do. I'd rather take my chances with the latter two then concede defeat with the former.

And that's not even talking about bringing in a vet from the outside. All options are open. None of them should include Campbell. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

NOTE: In my view, playing a rookie IS NOT an option.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

NOTE: In my view, playing a rookie IS NOT an option.

I disagree. It's an option. I think if you're comfortable with your OL and he outplays (or even comes close to outplaying) your veteran QBs, you give him the nod.

[anar-k21]

glad to have Jason back!! all he needs is some protection now !!!!a little time with the ball and he is a great QB!!!!!!!!!!!:logo:

[SonnyJ]

I disagree. It's an option. I think if you're comfortable with your OL and he outplays (or even comes close to outplaying) your veteran QBs, you give him the nod.

I remember in Heath Shuler's rookie season, the Redskins played the Patriots, at the time coached by Bill Parcells, in preseason.

Before the game, a reporter asked Parcells about Shuler's prospects and what he thought of him. Parcells, who had just gone through a rookie season with Bledsoe, responded (paraphrasing):

"He's not ready. I don't know how he's doing in camp, and I don't care if he comes out and lights us up in this game. He's not ready. No rookie QB ever is."

Pretty much sums up my opinion :). No rookie QB is ever ready to play. I think they are much better served by serving a kind of intense apprenticeship for a season. Sure, playing the young guy creates a buzz for the fans, and some may cope pretty well. But just about any veteran would be better than a rookie. And that includes Campbell - if he were the ONLY option to a rookie, I would prefer Campbell. That's how opposed I am to playing a rookie QB :).

[Perky72]

I know the hatred runs through you, my son, but how did Campbell not improve overall if his completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, and quarterback rating are all the best of his career while also being sacked a career high number of times?

Because the team overall was worse, and the second half, and often second quarter of many games was spent playing catchup. And towards the ends of some games spent playing against prevent defenses because we were 2+ TDs behind. This effect was repeated often just after games, and also warnings were given that the JC supporters would use these garbage-time stats to claim he was improving. He looked about the same as last year from the eyeball test though.

Additional factors into JC's statistic improvement were Portis getting injured, and the playcalling changing. But that doesn't mean JC's actual skills improved. He still made terrible decisions, still checked-down or overthrew wide open targets, and this still happened often even when he had great protection. He just doesn't look or play like a franchise QB.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I remember in Heath Shuler's rookie season, the Redskins played the Patriots, at the time coached by Bill Parcells, in preseason.

Before the game, a reporter asked Parcells about Shuler's prospects and what he thought of him. Parcells, who had just gone through a rookie season with Bledsoe, responded (paraphrasing):

"He's not ready. I don't know how he's doing in camp, and I don't care if he comes out and lights us up in this game. He's not ready. No rookie QB ever is."

Pretty much sums up my opinion :). No rookie QB is ever ready to play. I think they are much better served by serving a kind of intense apprenticeship for a season. Sure, playing the young guy creates a buzz for the fans, and some may cope pretty well. But just about any veteran would be better than a rookie. And that includes Campbell - if he were the ONLY option to a rookie, I would prefer Campbell. That's how opposed I am to playing a rookie QB :).

OK...but based on your realistic goals for the season, he doesn't have to be ready to win. There's something to be said for letting him make his mistakes during a season in which you don't have high hopes.

[wdcredskins]

He looked about the same as last year from the eyeball test though.
About the same? no way. with the eye test, he looked far worse than last yr especially in the boneheaded plays/mistakes department. he looked more like a rookie this yr than last yr. can you believe this guy just finished his 5th season? more turnovers INT and fumbles than any other season.
then u have the infamous audible call against the giants first week on 3rd down, takes theball out of his hands and calls a running play when the Giants stacked the line. what's funny is, this guy candle read the defense realizing that they stacked the line and was going to blitz and he calls the wrond audible by calling a run play. LOL what a nut job.
and to top it off, he said after the game that he didnt know what down it was , this coming off a timeout. LOL of course he knew what down it was, he was just trying to come up with a n excuse for his poor judgement/play and it back fired on his ass.
then u have the INT on a screen pass. not realizing that he has well passed the LOS and throwing the ball, called for forward pass.
holindg the ball low with one hand not protecting th eball, not stepping up in the pocket, getting the ball knocked out and opponent recovers and scores a TD.
running to the side line with no pressure whatsoever and instead of throwing it out of bounds, he throws it inbound behind the LOS and gets called for an intentional grounding. LOL i could go on and on. like runnning in to his own sacks/pressure.

u know it's bad when collinsworth on nationally televised game says candle causes his own sacks by running in to pressures.



Additional factors into JC's statistic improvement were Portis getting injured, and the playcalling changing. But that doesn't mean JC's actual skills improved. He still made terrible decisions, still checked-down or overthrew wide open targets, and this still happened often even when he had great protection. He just doesn't look or play like a franchise QB.

exactly. But what these clueless homers do not realize , or maybe they do but they dont bring it up is that this stat improvement, which isnt much and all that great came against one of the easiest schedule not just this yr but of all time.
then we factor in what u have mentioned, he has around 12 meaningful TDs and yards should be much less as well.

[Peregrine]

I think most every REASONABLE person knows that JC will most likely be the starter next year. It perfectly allows for us to draft a QB in the first, round, especially a guy like Bradford, and let him heal and develop Him. Perhaps the biggest knock on Bradford is his injury, but unlike most teams we are in a position to just let him heal.

[wdcredskins]

I think most every REASONABLE person knows that JC will most likely be the starter next year. It perfectly allows for us to draft a QB in the first, round, especially a guy like Bradford, and let him heal and develop Him. Perhaps the biggest knock on Bradford is his injury, but unlike most teams we are in a position to just let him heal.


yeah.

if we do draft bradford, i would still like to see COLT get the start. worse that could happen is that he isnt the QB we thought he would be and we dont have to invest in him and give hi a big contract. best that could happen is , he turns out good. then, colt's stock with rise. then we have the possibility to trade colt and get something nice for him . similiar to brees rivers situation with the chragers.

[TheItalianStallion]

Because the team overall was worse, and the second half, and often second quarter of many games was spent playing catchup. And towards the ends of some games spent playing against prevent defenses because we were 2+ TDs behind. This effect was repeated often just after games, and also warnings were given that the JC supporters would use these garbage-time stats to claim he was improving. He looked about the same as last year from the eyeball test though.The only time all year where our opponent played prevent D was during our final 2 posessions of the Detroit game.

[TheItalianStallion]

About the same? no way. with the eye test, he looked far worse than last yr especially in the boneheaded plays/mistakes department. he looked more like a rookie this yr than last yr. can you believe this guy just finished his 5th season? more turnovers INT and fumbles than any other season.
then u have the infamous audible call against the giants first week on 3rd down, takes theball out of his hands and calls a running play when the Giants stacked the line. what's funny is, this guy candle read the defense realizing that they stacked the line and was going to blitz and he calls the wrond audible by calling a run play. LOL what a nut job.
and to top it off, he said after the game that he didnt know what down it was , this coming off a timeout. LOL of course he knew what down it was, he was just trying to come up with a n excuse for his poor judgement/play and it back fired on his ass.
then u have the INT on a screen pass. not realizing that he has well passed the LOS and throwing the ball, called for forward pass.
holindg the ball low with one hand not protecting th eball, not stepping up in the pocket, getting the ball knocked out and opponent recovers and scores a TD.
running to the side line with no pressure whatsoever and instead of throwing it out of bounds, he throws it inbound behind the LOS and gets called for an intentional grounding. LOL i could go on and on. like runnning in to his own sacks/pressure.

u know it's bad when collinsworth on nationally televised game says candle causes his own sacks by running in to pressures.




exactly. But what these clueless homers do not realize , or maybe they do but they dont bring it up is that this stat improvement, which isnt much and all that great came against one of the easiest schedule not just this yr but of all time.
then we factor in what u have mentioned, he has around 12 meaningful TDs and yards should be much less as well.If you want to be taken seriously, it would help if you learned how to write coherant sentences.

[RiggosMohawk]

Jason is the insurance policy against STL screwing the Bradford plan, against a contract holdout by the Bradford camp, and a punching bag to absorb hits for 6-7 games while Sam and the OL get ready. Then Sam takes over, and JC hits the bench.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Um. In the very limited number of snaps that Collins took this past season he got sacked 3 times and hit just as much as Campbell when he was in. Stop acting like the guy is Peyton Manning who destroys you if you bring pressure. When he was in he got pressured plenty and overall looked absolutely no better than Campbell.

Looked no better than Campbell? Now what game where you watching? When he came in towards the end of the 2nd quarter against the Giants he moved the ball further in 2 minutes than JC did the entire half, and that is without practicing, game planning, all season with the first team. Yet when he was pressured he completed passes down field unlike JC.

As for the mobility of both, we all know Collins can't get out of his own way, and JC could run circles around him, but Collins can create time by maneuvering within the pocket unlike JC, further more Collins ability to throw down field will force the defense out of the box allowing more room to run and the element of surprise with screens and draws, all of which are a stiff fart in the wind with JC under center.

The FACT is any time Collins has had the opportunity to play he has greatly out shined Campbell that is not even open for debate! If you would like refer to his brief stint against the Chiefs, then you may have yourself a draw, which doesn't alleviate how bad JC was in that game.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Jason is the insurance policy against STL screwing the Bradford plan, against a contract holdout by the Bradford camp, and a punching bag to absorb hits for 6-7 games while Sam and the OL get ready. Then Sam takes over, and JC hits the bench.


if thats the case then i can stomach campbell staying, i just wont be taking the team seriously at all in terms of competing.

i just cant believe that he'd agree to this. how many times has campbell stated that hes a starter in this league, why would he stick around if his blatant replacement is sitting next to him on the bench after every 3 and out?

[gorebd82]

if thats the case then i can stomach campbell staying, i just wont be taking the team seriously at all in terms of competing.

i just cant believe that he'd agree to this. how many times has campbell stated that hes a starter in this league, why would he stick around if his blatant replacement is sitting next to him on the bench after every 3 and out?

He won't agree to it. He'll request a trade just like he would've last year if we had been able to trade up for Sanchez. The Skins will have the "moral high ground" because they named him starter and he requested a trade.

[mistertim]

Looked no better than Campbell? Now what game where you watching? When he came in towards the end of the 2nd quarter against the Giants he moved the ball further in 2 minutes than JC did the entire half, and that is without practicing, game planning, all season with the first team. Yet when he was pressured he completed passes down field unlike JC.

As for the mobility of both, we all know Collins can't get out of his own way, and JC could run circles around him, but Collins can create time by maneuvering within the pocket unlike JC, further more Collins ability to throw down field will force the defense out of the box allowing more room to run and the element of surprise with screens and draws, all of which are a stiff fart in the wind with JC under center.

The FACT is any time Collins has had the opportunity to play he has greatly out shined Campbell that is not even open for debate! If you would like refer to his brief stint against the Chiefs, then you may have yourself a draw, which doesn't alleviate how bad JC was in that game.


Yes, Collins had a good pass in the Giants game. A good pass. As in one. And then stalled after that. He looked completely mediocre vs KC as well. None of this changes that the central tenet of your argument, that Collins deals with pressure better because he is super smart and has a fast release, etc, was exposed as false when he got pressured plenty while he was in and didn't exactly make teams pay for it. He got sacked and knocked down. He didn't light anyone up when pressured. Go back and watch the pass to Moss that you're talking about. He wasn't really pressured. He had time to throw it.

And your point about not practicing or game planning with the first team is simply false. The backup does trade snaps with the starter during practice and is perfectly aware of the gameplanning, etc. Otherwise what would be the point of the person being the backup who is supposed to be able to come in and be ready to play should the starter go down? The first and second string QBs generally share snaps during practice and the third string guy generally runs the scout team.

Lol @ "not even open for debate"

[Laxpunk2006]

Looked no better than Campbell? Now what game where you watching? When he came in towards the end of the 2nd quarter against the Giants he moved the ball further in 2 minutes than JC did the entire half, and that is without practicing, game planning, all season with the first team. Yet when he was pressured he completed passes down field unlike JC.

As for the mobility of both, we all know Collins can't get out of his own way, and JC could run circles around him, but Collins can create time by maneuvering within the pocket unlike JC, further more Collins ability to throw down field will force the defense out of the box allowing more room to run and the element of surprise with screens and draws, all of which are a stiff fart in the wind with JC under center.

The FACT is any time Collins has had the opportunity to play he has greatly out shined Campbell that is not even open for debate! If you would like refer to his brief stint against the Chiefs, then you may have yourself a draw, which doesn't alleviate how bad JC was in that game.

Collins was horrible in the Chiefs game, but so was Campbell so you're right that's a tie. Against ATL Collins went 4 for 5, for 12 yards. I don't consider this a good performance. Against NY Collins hit a nice deep pass and outside of that did nothing, although he only had 4 attempts. Collins played great under Saunders. Outside of that he's just a guy. As long as we're starting "just a guy" I'd rather have the younger version with upside.

[JaimeDeCurry]

Because the team overall was worse, and the second half, and often second quarter of many games was spent playing catchup. And towards the ends of some games spent playing against prevent defenses because we were 2+ TDs behind. This effect was repeated often just after games, and also warnings were given that the JC supporters would use these garbage-time stats to claim he was improving. He looked about the same as last year from the eyeball test though.

Additional factors into JC's statistic improvement were Portis getting injured, and the playcalling changing. But that doesn't mean JC's actual skills improved. He still made terrible decisions, still checked-down or overthrew wide open targets, and this still happened often even when he had great protection. He just doesn't look or play like a franchise QB.


He threw the same number of passes this season as he did last season (506 vs 507), so if you're implying that losing Portis and Betts forced the Redskins to throw more, you're wrong. Yet his completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, red zone efficiency and quarterback rating were all improved from last year, despite being sacked a career high amount of times and having the worst running game of his career helping him out.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

mistertim, Laxpunk--uh, he had two great passes vs. the Giants. You remember the one that hit Davis in the hands in the end zone from about 20 yards out? From a pure passing perspective, Davis drop doesn't change the fact that it was on the money.

How does these types of basic facts elude some of you, I don't know.

[Veretax]

Saw this coming. Question is whether its long term beyond 2010.

[mistertim]

mistertim, Laxpunk--uh, he had two great passes vs. the Giants. You remember the one that hit Davis in the hands in the end zone from about 20 yards out? From a pure passing perspective, Davis drop doesn't change the fact that it was on the money.

How does these types of basic facts elude some of you, I don't know.

And there have been on the money passes from Campbell that guys have dropped, so what is your point?

[Passizle]

Looked no better than Campbell? Now what game where you watching? When he came in towards the end of the 2nd quarter against the Giants he moved the ball further in 2 minutes than JC did the entire half, and that is without practicing, game planning, all season with the first team. Yet when he was pressured he completed passes down field unlike JC.

As for the mobility of both, we all know Collins can't get out of his own way, and JC could run circles around him, but Collins can create time by maneuvering within the pocket unlike JC, further more Collins ability to throw down field will force the defense out of the box allowing more room to run and the element of surprise with screens and draws, all of which are a stiff fart in the wind with JC under center.

The FACT is any time Collins has had the opportunity to play he has greatly out shined Campbell that is not even open for debate! If you would like refer to his brief stint against the Chiefs, then you may have yourself a draw, which doesn't alleviate how bad JC was in that game.

Revisionist. He completed a pass. Not "passes". From there he went incomplete, incomplete, delay of game, dump off to El. Your attempts to revise his play to god status is laughable.
The entire team was beat down that game. I guess you dont remeber the Skins having one three an out in the first quarter while our vaunted defense gave up 2 long drives that both led to scores.
16 plays, 80 yards, 9:13.
11 plays, 63 yards, 5:00.
Thats 14:13 TOP in the first quarter. How is that a knock on JC?


The rest of your post is the usual repeated drivel. Collins has never "greatly" outshined Campbell. Played slightly better? Yeah. In 2007, using the 0-4/4-0 comparison he "greatly" outplayed JC by doing this:
Passing per game avg: JC 270, TC 222
Total passing: JC 1080, TC 888
TD's : JC 6, TC 5
Comp%: JC 61.7, TC 63.8
The only slightly better improvment TC had over JC was protecting the ball. He did not throw and interception, but he did fumble 4 times, losing two.

There is no "great" discernable difference between the two outside of the W/L column. Do you know the difference IMO? Defense. The numbers support that.

Yards per game allowed: JC 321.8, TC 302.3
Total yards: JC 1280, TC 1209
Defensive Interceptions: JC 1, TC 5
Points allowed: JC 97 (24.25 ppg), TC 53 (13.25 ppg)

Another difference? In the 0-4 slide, JC was a prime point contributor scoring 36 of the total 77 points. During the 4-0 run, TC only scored 30 of the 105 points scored. You cant say with a straight face that TC not only made the pass game better, but he also improved the run game, defense, special teams, and the field goal unit.

Its hogwash, but believe whatever you wish.

[Vicious]

TC was operating under one of the hardest systems to learn in the league that he knew by heart from over a decade of studying it. It was a timing offense.

Jason Campbell had one year.

[CapitalDefense]

JC will start to keep us from starting a rookie, thats the only reason he will be here.

[mistertim]

JC will start to keep us from starting a rookie, thats the only reason he will be here.

And if Shanny and Allen decide that they aren't that high on either of the top QBs coming out this year and decide to stockpile OL?

[JaimeDeCurry]

And if Shanny and Allen decide that they aren't that high on either of the top QBs coming out this year and decide to stockpile OL?


Then they're dummy poopoo heads! Waaaaa! I want Bradfooooooooorrrrrrrrrdddddddd!!!!

[SonnyJ]

OK...but based on your realistic goals for the season, he doesn't have to be ready to win. There's something to be said for letting him make his mistakes during a season in which you don't have high hopes.

I don't agree with this line of thinking. You're assuming that the development of a rookie QB can only take place while playing, and that the question is not if he'll make the same mistakes, it's just a matter of when he starts making them. I believe letting the player develop for a season before playing him will hopefully allow him to get a degree of comfort and confidence that will hopefully bypass a good chunk of the "rookie" mistakes.


I think most every REASONABLE person knows that JC will most likely be the starter next year. It perfectly allows for us to draft a QB in the first, round, especially a guy like Bradford, and let him heal and develop Him. Perhaps the biggest knock on Bradford is his injury, but unlike most teams we are in a position to just let him heal.

Nice. So if you believe Campbell should not be handed the starting job once again, then you're UNREASONABLE? That's a really REASONABLE stance to take :rolleyes:.


And your point about not practicing or game planning with the first team is simply false. The backup does trade snaps with the starter during practice and is perfectly aware of the gameplanning, etc. Otherwise what would be the point of the person being the backup who is supposed to be able to come in and be ready to play should the starter go down? The first and second string QBs generally share snaps during practice and the third string guy generally runs the scout team.

And you continue to be wrong about this. The first string guy takes almost all snaps with the first team during the practice week. This is long-established fact, and you consistently stating otherwise fails to make it not be so.


...Jason Campbell had one year.

WRONG. Jason Campbell had TWO seasons under Saunders, and had been in the league THREE years. Not to mention that he had far more actual playing time than Collins did. Yes, Collins had a high degree of familiarity with the offense, but let's not pretend that Campbell was some sort of newb. And certain things, like reading defenses, transcend offensive systems.

[skinfan2k]

I used to be a big JC fan, but how can you explain that his numbers are getting better but we have less wins and still cant produce any points

[mi6]

Sure, they'll tender him as an RFA and plan to start him.

That doesn't mean they won't be open to trade offers or be actively trying to trade him.

I believe that Shanahan/Allen will explore all opportunities to make this team better. NOT tendering a player with value like Campbell would be foolish.

Jason "Soup" Campbell has value? You ought to be kidding!

Only, the Skins were foolish enough to give up 3 draft picks to get him - and that includes a 1st rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a 4th rounder.

The fact of the matter is JC is NOT a good/stellar QB. Wasn't in college and certainly isn't in the NFL.

Lets rebuild. And, that start with drafting a Franchise QB, and playing him. Having a Franchise QB warming the bench makes no sense. Even if we lose due to the QB's learning/growing pains ... we will be much better for it in the upcoming season. Nothing replaces real live NFL experience ... certainly not holding a clip board!

[grego]

I used to be a big JC fan, but how can you explain that his numbers are getting better but we have less wins and still cant produce any points

i think the answer is in your question. check out the pro football focus chart for the redskins offense, and it'll help.

[mistertim]

And you continue to be wrong about this. The first string guy takes almost all snaps with the first team during the practice week. This is long-established fact, and you consistently stating otherwise fails to make it not be so.

Where did I say the evenly share snaps? The starting QB will take more, but the backup also takes snaps with the 1st string and knows the gameplanning, etc.

[alwaysaskin]

I used to be a big JC fan, but how can you explain that his numbers are getting better but we have less wins and still cant produce any points

That would be the Offensive line, and lack of running game and lack of a true #1 receiver. The Jets got where they got because of four things:
1. A dominant Offensive Line
2. A running Game that gashed opponents
3. A Ball hawking defense
4. A good coach

All Sanchez had to do was be a game manager, which he did well enough, but he couldn't beat the Colts by himself

Compare to us last year
1. Our Line had the two worst Tackles in the NFL
2. our Running Game averaged about 3 YPC
3. Our Defense was stale and conservative, and our D Coordinator was an arrogant jackass
4. Zorn was our head Coach

A lot goes in to a good offense. A new QB is not the cure all for all of our Offensive woes and I am sick of that line of thinking. There are eleven people on the field. We had six starting caliber players out that eleven and five (Heyer, Jones, Mike Williams, ARE and gaither) that should not sniff the field again for a long time.

[grego]

Compare to us last year
1. Our Line had the two worst Tackles in the NFL
2. our Running Game averaged about 3 YPC
3. Our Defense was stale and conservative, and our D Coordinator was an arrogant jackass
4. Zorn was our head Coach



you left out that our #1 WR was ranked 105th out of 107.

[JaimeDeCurry]

you left out that our #1 WR was ranked 105th out of 107.

And our playcalling and production actually IMPROVED when we pulled in a guy who had been out of football-related activities for half a decade.

God last year was terrible. :doh:

[grego]

And our playcalling and production actually IMPROVED when we pulled in a guy who had been out of football-related activities for half a decade.

God last year was terrible. :doh:

that too. amazing how we looked like an NFL offense when he was in charge. and the game after vinny was fired, we looked like garbage against a struggling giants team. its a good bet zorn was calling plays from that point on.

[SonnyJ]

you left out that our #1 WR was ranked 105th out of 107.

Fire up a site, ask people from around the internet to grade players based on the TV feed of games, and you, too, can be considered an irrefutable source for NFL player analysis. :)


Where did I say the evenly share snaps? The starting QB will take more, but the backup also takes snaps with the 1st string and knows the gameplanning, etc.

You're full of it. You stated that they SHARED snaps, clearly implying some degree of parity, when in reality the split is probably more like 95%-5%. Actually, with Campbell, I wouldn't be surprised if he was given all but two or three snaps during the week - he needed the work.

If 5% of the snaps is sufficient preparation, why do teams bother practicing so much? Good Lord, the Campbell Excuse Train would have a field day with rationalizing his play if he only got 5% of the first team snaps during the week.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

i dont like this. not because im a campbell hater but we need to trade him to get something out of it. i dont wanna see him go away for nothing. heck at least a 3rd or late 2nd.

Randy Moss only got a 4th rounder. Moss is much more accurate than JC.

[HailGreen28]

That would be the Offensive line, and lack of running game and lack of a true #1 receiver. The Jets got where they got because of four things:
1. A dominant Offensive Line
2. A running Game that gashed opponents
3. A Ball hawking defense
4. A good coach

All Sanchez had to do was be a game manager, which he did well enough, but he couldn't beat the Colts by himself

Compare to us last year
1. Our Line had the two worst Tackles in the NFL
2. our Running Game averaged about 3 YPC
3. Our Defense was stale and conservative, and our D Coordinator was an arrogant jackass
4. Zorn was our head Coach

A lot goes in to a good offense. A new QB is not the cure all for all of our Offensive woes and I am sick of that line of thinking. There are eleven people on the field. We had six starting caliber players out that eleven and five (Heyer, Jones, Mike Williams, ARE and gaither) that should not sniff the field again for a long time.Pencil in Candle as the sixth guy who barring injury shouldn't sniff the field. He got outplayed 2 out of 3 games this year by Todd Collins, whom everyone agrees is a career backup.

[killerbee99]

thats just wrong

[grego]

Fire up a site, ask people from around the internet to grade players based on the TV feed of games, and you, too, can be considered an irrefutable source for NFL player analysis. :)

i get what youre saying. but moss didnt have a great season. i'm not surprised, really, by the ratings. as a matter of fact, they pretty much reflect how i felt about our team- with the exception of cooley and davis, who, apparently got downgraded for blocking, if i read that right.

i was looking at how they grade players. i'm not really clear on who is doing the grading. but i'm not convinced they arent at least somewhat accurate, either. i'm not sure about that grading over 'at least 8 games' per team. it they were grading the giants on the first part of their season, they'd be world beaters. not so much the latter half.

[addicted]

Trade him to Arizona, they don't like Lienart

[1972FAN]

If they REALLY like him, they give him an lengthy contract, not a 1 year deal. So whatever...

BINGO,,,,,,,,,,, enough said, don't be surprise when they bring in 2 QB's this year.

[texasthunder]

Trade him to Arizona, they don't like Lienart


Exactamundo.

Campbell is a better pocket passer, and Leinart is a better play action QB.

Depending on the terms, this could be the best for both teams.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Exactamundo.

Campbell is a better pocket passer, and Leinart is a better play action QB.

Depending on the terms, this could be the best for both teams.

Well if Leinart is a better PA QB then it would make sense to keep him. They're going to shift more to the running game now that they have Beanie and a decent 3DRB in Hightower

[texasthunder]

Well if Leinart is a better PA QB then it would make sense to keep him. They're going to shift more to the running game now that they have Beanie and a decent 3DRB in Hightower


True=
And I believe part of the change in scheme is because Leinart is nowwhere near the same pocket passer as Warner.
But when you have Fitz, and Breaston, and maybe a healthy Boldin, they will still want to pass.

And if they were to trade for Campbell, they would noy have to change too much of their game plan.

[SonnyJ]

And if they were to trade for Campbell, they would noy have to change too much of their game plan.

You're kidding, right? You think Campbell could step in for Warner and their offense would keep rolling w/o missing a beat?

[darklight1216]

Exactamundo.

Campbell is a better pocket passer, and Leinart is a better play action QB.

Depending on the terms, this could be the best for both teams.
That arrangement would be fine for Campbell, but Leinhart would be on the short end of the deal. From Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston to the Redskins sorry excuse of an offense... that would be a tough transition to make.

[texasthunder]

You're kidding, right? You think Campbell could step in for Warner and their offense would keep rolling w/o missing a beat?


Well they would miss a few beats.
Warners shoes are going to be tough to fill.

I just think Jason would do better in Arizona's style of offense.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Well they would miss a few beats.
Warners shoes are going to be tough to fill.

I just think Jason would do better in Arizona's style of offense.

Since when did Arizona become a running team?

[skinsfan3880]

Another one who should save this post for next offseason, b/c you'll be asking us the same thing if Campbell sticks around.

The better question is what will his more ardent supporters do when he is cut/traded from this team and fades away like Patrick Ramsey?

Are they finally going to explain to us just what they see in him and why they are so obsessed with keeping him around?

Cause it sure as heck can't have anything to do with football b/c they guy has never come close to doing anything.

Yet they want to paint him as if he is like Archie Manning on a bad Saints team.

Campbell is no Manning. :D

Many of these same people go over to the ATN board and laugh at the Cowboys thinking they are ever going to win anything with a choking Romo.

Yet they think the Redskins have a future wih JC (who he himself has showed he crumbles in big games and big-game situations).

It really makes no sense to me.

I myself am not a cultist a camper a jimmywagger or any of these little names. i asked this because it could possibly happen could he fail yes. But if he did succeed then what he would still get no credit. Right now he is the best option the redskins have and i support that. You wanna take a flyer on a first round qb like Bradford that gets mauled after a few good licks With a rebuilding line thats about a sound as a screendoor on a sub he will be retired due to injury before he learns the entire playbook. In campbell at least you have someone you know has toughness and can withstand a rebuilt/rebuilding offensive line depending on what happens over the course of the offeseason. You also have someone thats grasped the fundementals of west coast offenses yes zorns playcalling wanst the most aggressive in the world. But i believe with a proper run game installled and the full pressure of the game off of campbell you will be suprised at just what he can do. And if he does fail and is sent out then i live with that decision as well.

So far all ive seen out of Campbell haters is one fact no matter what happens its traced back to Jason I can easily say he shares some of the blame that is deserved after this last season. However i cant and will not place everything at his feet for this abortion of a season. But some people here can do it readily. In the end Shanahan knows more about this than any of us Myself included he is the final judge at the end of the day and if hes chosen to retain campbell then theres good sound reason so i could also say that if he chose to be rid of him. And dont bank everything on first round qbs being the FRANCHISE because for every Peyton Manning there are plenty of Akili Smiths Tim Couchs And Ryan leafs to go around

and if you feel your smarter than Shanahan or Allen By all means apply for the head coaching gig the next time it comes up...(thats a little tounge in cheek) I do respect your viewpoint but i strongly disagree.


Edit because i realzied a never adressed your other questions.

I see keeping him around due to his toughness and the fact of a run oriented west coast offense would be more to his style also Campbell has a cannon and on play action to moss or Thomas or Possibly Brandon Marshall could be deep and deadly with a proper run game installed and not the run game thats been around the last two years. I feel the way Shanahan runs thing will take the pressure off campbell and help him flourish. And i personally support the person playing Qb if Colt Brennan or Campbell starts the season i would support them or if we got someone from free agenceny or the draft they would also get my support. The reason i said what i said intially is that Campbell Gets Waay to much of the blame for what happened to this team blame that should be heaped on otheres as well. And in seeing that i honestly believe that theres a lot of people on here that couldnt handle Campbell leading this team to a Good season they would place credit strategically on everyone but him which is unfair to the highest degree

[skinsfan3880]

Since when did Arizona become a running team?


Since warner hung up the cleats:pfft:

[21cents]

Since when did Arizona become a running team?
since redskins were one of the worst running teams in nfl this season.

[bedlamVR]

Fire up a site, ask people from around the internet to grade players based on the TV feed of games, and you, too, can be considered an irrefutable source for NFL player analysis. :)



You're full of it. You stated that they SHARED snaps, clearly implying some degree of parity, when in reality the split is probably more like 95%-5%. Actually, with Campbell, I wouldn't be surprised if he was given all but two or three snaps during the week - he needed the work.

If 5% of the snaps is sufficient preparation, why do teams bother practicing so much? Good Lord, the Campbell Excuse Train would have a field day with rationalizing his play if he only got 5% of the first team snaps during the week.

Really ... do you have an actual quote or are you just making stuff up again as the agenda boyz tend to do . If you can point to one quote or source that said Campbell did take 95% of the practice snaps during the week (because he needed the work - LOL) then I would be happy to go along with your ramblings .

Typically the starting and backup QB will split the snaps 70-30 or depending on the knocks and scrapes the stater has from the previous week . In which case the work load will be more tilted towards the backup to allow the starter to rest and recover .

It is interesting that football outsiders is a meaningless worthless source when it doesn't support your argument but becomes gold when it does . As does the word of a random GM scout or other unnamed source who supports your oppinion but sees probably a fraction of the game tape as we do on TV.

The thing is I cannot understand why this argument is perpetuated by the same people time and time again that changing the QB will fix everything. When all evidence according to the product on the field last season points to the fact the QB was absolutely the last problem on the offense .

The offense was the most injured unit in the NFL last season . The OL was statistically the among the worst in the league, The WRs all under produced, the most effective weapon in the passing game was the TE (Cooley/Davis) the running game was a joke and the play calling vastly improved with Lewis calling the plays who had previously been calling bingo for the last X number of years .

People point to Collins coming in and out playing Campbell in 2 of 3 games but outside a handful of plays Collins looked terrible . In his best game (against the Giants) he completed 50% of his passes for a massive 54 yards . Against Atlanta he completed 80% of his passes for 12 yards and the game he had the most action (against tampa where Campbell had an absoulte stinker) Collins was 6-14 for 74 yards and was sacked twice and fumbled twice .

And I am not just piling on Collins . He is a serviceable NFL back up but Collins faced the same problems as Cambpell did . Poor protection poor WR play no running game and wacky play calling .

The fact that Collins could not come in and look any better than Campbell as the back up points to IT ISNT THE QB .. but no matter how many people say this or how clearly this is layed out then some will absolutely not accept the issues raised .

Football is a team game . Everyone has to be performing to be successful .

The reasons I don't want Campbell to come back is because he was a 1st round pick or because he is a hard worker or tough as nails or a nice guy but because I belive he can lead the skins to success . I want the Skins to be successful and if Shanahan thinks the way to do that is go a different direction at QB then OK I will be fine with that decision but also I would be fine with Campbell back as starter because quite frankly I think he is a decent QB who has not reached his celling .

It seems to me the anti Campbell posters really do have an agenda in that they don't like Auburn or they don't like the type of QB he is or other much more disturbing reasons none of which are related to the product on the field .

Just be honest and can we move on from this endless pointless back and forth ?

[SkinsGuy]

I myself am not a cultist a camper a jimmywagger or any of these little names. i asked this because it could possibly happen could he fail yes. But if he did succeed then what he would still get no credit. Right now he is the best option the redskins have and i support that.

Says who? Best option for what? Winning? The Redskins were 4-12 last year.


You wanna take a flyer on a first round qb like Bradford that gets mauled after a few good licks With a rebuilding line thats about a sound as a screendoor on a sub he will be retired due to injury before he learns the entire playbook. In campbell at least you have someone you know has toughness and can withstand a rebuilt/rebuilding offensive line depending on what happens over the course of the offeseason.

So you want to stay mired and stagnant in mediocrity b/c of the unknown of another QB?

Better the devil you know, huh? That is your whole plan? :doh: If this is truly a "lost season" as we rebuild, then I'd rather start Brennan and see what we have in him while our rookie (whoever it will be) sits for a year.

At one time, we had NO idea what we had in JC. But we had to find out eventually. Same as with Brennan. We have to play the guy some sooner or later (in a real game) and see what he is made of.


You also have someone thats grasped the fundementals of west coast offenses yes zorns playcalling wanst the most aggressive in the world. But i believe with a proper run game installled and the full pressure of the game off of campbell you will be suprised at just what he can do. And if he does fail and is sent out then i live with that decision as well.

I've watched Campbell play, and I think he has grasped very little.

You know, we heard this crap last year.
"Just give him one more year. Just one more. If he fails, he's gone."

We did. He was terrible. He was even benched during the year for poor play.

Now, we are hearing it all over again. "Just one more year. Just one more"

And when he fails again next year, we will hear it again..... "He was just learning Shanahan's system in that first year. Now he will be more used to it. Just give him one more year". :doh:

By that time, Campbell will be going into his THIRTIES (yes, he has been around that long), and we are still waiting for him to "get it".

I don't want to wait on him anymore. Let some other team do the waiting.


So far all ive seen out of Campbell haters is one fact no matter what happens its traced back to Jason I can easily say he shares some of the blame that is deserved after this last season. However i cant and will not place everything at his feet for this abortion of a season. But some people here can do it readily.

No one here is contending that Campbell alone is the source of all the Redskins' troubles.

They are contending, though, that upgrading the o-line is NOT going to suddenly turn Campbell into Peyton Manning.

If you want to talk about delusions, just look at this thread. There are folks here actually contending that if Campbell is traded to Arizona, the Cardinals won't miss a beat. :doh:

They are actually putting Campbell up there with Kurt Warner, who is going to the HoF someday.

This is the non-reality they suffer under. They really believe that Campbell is as every bit as good as Brees, P. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Warner.... all the great QBs of today.

He just suffers greatly from an o-line that doesn't block for him (tell that to Rodgers and Rothlisberger).

As well as numerous HCs that are too conservative. They don't turn him loose (whatever the hell that means).

Oh yeah, and he suffers from numerous OCs that just call lousy plays all the time, the poor guy. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the NUMEROUS WRs that just failed him constantly through his tenure here by never getting open. All of them. :doh:


And on, and on, and on, and on.........



In the end Shanahan knows more about this than any of us Myself included he is the final judge at the end of the day and if hes chosen to retain campbell then theres good sound reason so i could also say that if he chose to be rid of him. And dont bank everything on first round qbs being the FRANCHISE because for every Peyton Manning there are plenty of Akili Smiths Tim Couchs And Ryan leafs to go around

So b/c the QB might not work out, better to not try at all? We might as well cancel the draft altogether then, b/c every single pick is a risk, no matter what position we speak of.

Or more to the point, for every Chris Samuels, there are plenty of Tony Mandrichs or Andre Johnsons to go around. :)



and if you feel your smarter than Shanahan or Allen By all means apply for the head coaching gig the next time it comes up...(thats a little tounge in cheek) I do respect your viewpoint but i strongly disagree.

It may be tounge-in-cheek, but it is also a pointless straw man. I'm not debating Shanahan, I'm debating you, someone is under the impression that he is speaking Shanahan's POV. ;)

We don't know what his plan is.


Edit because i realzied a never adressed your other questions.

I see keeping him around due to his toughness and the fact of a run oriented west coast offense would be more to his style also Campbell has a cannon and on play action to moss or Thomas or Possibly Brandon Marshall could be deep and deadly with a proper run game installed and not the run game thats been around the last two years. I feel the way Shanahan runs thing will take the pressure off campbell and help him flourish. And i personally support the person playing Qb if Colt Brennan or Campbell starts the season i would support them or if we got someone from free agenceny or the draft they would also get my support. The reason i said what i said intially is that Campbell Gets Waay to much of the blame for what happened to this team blame that should be heaped on otheres as well. And in seeing that i honestly believe that theres a lot of people on here that couldnt handle Campbell leading this team to a Good season they would place credit strategically on everyone but him which is unfair to the highest degree

That is pure speculation. Folks would be happy if we could get a decent year out of Campbell for a change. After 5 years, though, we are just convinced we won't.

And you talk about strategic placing of things? Look at your paragraph above. You say Campbell gets too much blame. You give him way too little.

You blame the o-line, the WRs, you blame the RUNNING GAME, of all things for our offensive woes. :doh: You blame the coaches (Gibbs, Zorn) for not using Campbell right by saying Shanahan will get it right.

And what good is Campbell's "canon of an arm" if he can't hit the broad side of a barn past 20 yards?

You say he gets too much blame. I say he gets his fair share.

[SkinsGuy]

It seems to me the anti Campbell posters really do have an agenda in that they don't like Auburn or they don't like the type of QB he is or other much more disturbing reasons none of which are related to the product on the field .

I know exactly what you are implying and it is total BS. And you know it is BS b/c you are trying to be so coy about it and don't have the guts to come right out and say it.

If you want to play that card, I can play it, too.

I think the reasons the most rabid Campbell supporters want to keep him here have NOTHING to do with football. That they are letting their social/political agendas creep into their fandom. A guy I talked to at work convinced me of that.

Like I said, I can play this game, but I'd rather keep politics of this board.


Just be honest and can we move on from this endless pointless back and forth?

Try being more honest with yourself first before you wonder about other folk's honesty.

And if you don't like Campbell discussions, STAY OUT OF THEM. I don't want them to end or go away. The QB issue is, to me, the single most important issue facing the team.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Since when did Arizona become a running team?

All part of our cunning plan in sending Jason there THH.

When Fitzgerald's reduced to not seeing the ball, we plan to nab him on the cheap.

Off load our ineptitude, ruin a fellow NFC playoff contender, and nab a young top flight wide out. It's genius.

Hail.

[SkinsGuy]

All part of our cunning plan in sending Jason there THH.

When Fitzgerald's reduced to not seeing the ball, we plan to nab him on the cheap.

Off load our ineptitude, ruin a fellow NFC playoff contender, and nab a young top flight wide out. It's genius.

Hail.

Bruce Allen, that evil genius. :)

If Campbell DID go out to Arizona and the passing game declined, Campbell's more ardent supporters would bame Fitzgerald and Boldin (and Breaston) for not getting open enough. :doh:

I could just see the look on Fitzgerald's face when he sees the ball sail 10 feet over his head for the third time in a game. :)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I could just see the look on Fitzgerald's face when he sees the ball sail 10 feet over his head for the third time in a game. :)

Do you know NOTHING about football SG? :chair:

Wide outs are expected to turn themselves into India Rubber guys, and contort TO the ball, however over/under/way ward thrown Jaso, uhmmm, a QB's ball is.

(Think the irony's a tad overstated? ;).).

Hail.

[MartinC]

True=
And I believe part of the change in scheme is because Leinart is nowwhere near the same pocket passer as Warner.
But when you have Fitz, and Breaston, and maybe a healthy Boldin, they will still want to pass.

And if they were to trade for Campbell, they would noy have to change too much of their game plan.

I'm sort of on the fench re Jason. I can see the argument for letting him go and moving on as he does still make some of the same mental and physical errors he made when he first started. I also think he may well be our best option for next season and would like to see us really address the O'line before we expose a rookie behind it.

All that said there is no way Campbell can step into Arizona and come close to running their offense the way Warner did. He would be a good fit in Carolina but not Arizona.

[SonnyJ]

Really ... do you have an actual quote or are you just making stuff up again as the agenda boyz tend to do . If you can point to one quote or source that said Campbell did take 95% of the practice snaps during the week (because he needed the work - LOL) then I would be happy to go along with your ramblings .

Typically the starting and backup QB will split the snaps 70-30 or depending on the knocks and scrapes the stater has from the previous week . In which case the work load will be more tilted towards the backup to allow the starter to rest and recover.

Amazing what a quick Google search can find:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A02E2D7133AF933A05752C0A96E9C8B 63


Since Brady takes 95 percent of the first-team offense's repetitions during practice...

Now, I'm certain that Jason Campbell needs a lot less practice time than Tom Brady as he is so much more better, but do you really think he takes that much less?

How about you trot out some proof that shows the starting QB gets 70% or less of the practice reps during the season?


It is interesting that football outsiders is a meaningless worthless source when it doesn't support your argument but becomes gold when it does . As does the word of a random GM scout or other unnamed source who supports your oppinion but sees probably a fraction of the game tape as we do on TV.

One, this isn't from Football Outsiders, just some random yahoo with no stated credentials who claims that his data has some sort of meaning. Two, I really don't need anyone to tell me anything when I have closely observed the exact same footage they use.

Seriously, did you even read anything in this thread, or are you just one of the reflexive Campbell defense team?


The thing is I cannot understand why this argument is perpetuated by the same people time and time again that changing the QB will fix everything. When all evidence according to the product on the field last season points to the fact the QB was absolutely the last problem on the offense .

That's funny - I wonder the exact opposite. Why do the same people keep trotting out the same excuses for the same lame QB play that we've seen from Campbell over the last 3.5 seasons? The OL doesn't give Campbell time to go downfield - but Collins comes in and starts throwing strikes downfield.


The offense was the most injured unit in the NFL last season . Blah blah blah. A bunch of the same old arguments

Even if this stuff were true, isn't it a trifle disconcerting that you have to puff Campbell up by comparing him to a 39-yo career backup who gets hardly any practice time. Why is that? I wouldn't even think of comparing Collins with any other QB in the division. The fact is, though, that Collins understands the position at a much greater fundamental level than Campbell. Campbell does what he is told. Collins understands why he is being told to do things a certain way. It's why he can come off the bench during the Giants game and, even though "Campbell doesn't have time to go downfield", Collins can come in and hit Moss and Davis in the #s with downfield passes.


The reasons I don't want Campbell to come back is because he was a 1st round pick or because he is a hard worker or tough as nails or a nice guy but because I belive he can lead the skins to success . I want the Skins to be successful and if Shanahan thinks the way to do that is go a different direction at QB then OK I will be fine with that decision but also I would be fine with Campbell back as starter because quite frankly I think he is a decent QB who has not reached his celling .

There is absolutely no basis, no past history of success, for believing that Campbell, after 5 seasons, is going to become some uber-QB. You may as well be saying that you believe in the Tooth Fairy.


It seems to me the anti Campbell posters really do have an agenda in that they don't like Auburn or they don't like the type of QB he is or other much more disturbing reasons none of which are related to the product on the field .

Just be honest and can we move on from this endless pointless back and forth ?

SkinsGuy gave this the response it deserves. Just shows you how desperate the Campbell defense team is that they have to attach non-football-related motives to anyone who has come to detest Campbell's unproductive style of play.

News for you, dude. Most of the guys who want Campbell gone were probably big supporters of his at one point. I know I was. I was giddy with his prospects after 2006. Even after the events of the 2007 season when Collins clearly was the impetus for the playoff run, I just wanted to believe that Campbell needed more seasoning. But, the truth came crashing home fully for me last season - the big problem isn't what Campbell does, it's what he doesn't do. And when you read the tortured arguments for him by the Campbell defense team (such as this one), you realize there is no logical basis for supporting him. It's Stockholm Syndrome.

[SonnyJ]

Says who? Best option for what? Winning? The Redskins were 4-12 last year.

...


So you want to stay mired and stagnant in mediocrity b/c of the unknown of another QB?

Better the devil you know, huh? That is your whole plan? :doh: If this is truly a "lost season" as we rebuild, then I'd rather start Brennan and see what we have in him while our rookie (whoever it will be) sits for a year.
...

BTW, SkinsGuy. Awesome, awesome response here. I'd have left the whole quote in, but the mods probably wouldn't have liked that.

I wish I had written this :).

:applause:

[Mahons21]

All part of our cunning plan in sending Jason there THH.

When Fitzgerald's reduced to not seeing the ball, we plan to nab him on the cheap.

Off load our ineptitude, ruin a fellow NFC playoff contender, and nab a young top flight wide out. It's genius.

Hail.

-Well don't let the secret out, not everyone is supposed to know.

[CooleyKnight]

I agree. Realistically, no one will give up a second or third pick for him. If that was the case trading might be an option, but it is not worth trading him for a 4th or 5th.

[Llevron]

I will never stop being mystified by the Campbell Defense Team's argument that Jason "is our best option" for "political" reasons.


Did you just make that up or did you read it someplace? Cause Im pretty sure It wasn't said in this, or any other, thread.


Some of you just read what you want to and then argue that. I dont understand that...

[SkinsGuy]

BTW, SkinsGuy. Awesome, awesome response here. I'd have left the whole quote in, but the mods probably wouldn't have liked that.

I wish I had written this :).

:applause:


Thank you. :)

The idea from JC's more ardent supporters that Campbell, and Campbell ALONE, is the ONLY QB that can allow the Redskins to accomplish anything this year is absurd.

I could somewhat see that reasoning if he had accomplihed something in the past that made you think he could do it again.

However, he hasn't. In 3.5 years, he has done nothing. His ardent supporters say "he needs more time".

Yet, these same people say Brennan needs NO TIME. NO CHANCE. He is DONE already.

You point out that Brennan has not taken one snap in an NFL game to get a chance to prove himself and he needs to, and they say "No, that one drive in the preseason was enough. He's finished".

Yet Campbell, after 3+ years, still needs more time.

Does that make any sense. :insane:

[texasthunder]

Since when did Arizona become a running team?


.

If you want to talk about delusions, just look at this thread. There are folks here actually contending that if Campbell is traded to Arizona, the Cardinals won't miss a beat. :doh:
.




All that said there is no way Campbell can step into Arizona and come close to running their offense the way Warner did. He would be a good fit in Carolina but not Arizona.

The Cardinals have been talking about going to more of a running game if they have to use Leinart at QB.
My thought process was that they would not have to change their scheme to that extent if they had Campbell.

I never meant to infer or give the opinion that Jason could replace Warner, but only to say that Arizona would/could still have more of a passing game, vs gong to more of a running game.


I still think Jason is a decent qb that could be alittle better in their system then if he stayed in our WCO.
No he will probally never be a top ten qb in this league.

BTW- Adam Schefter via ESPN news did say that Arizona could send out some trade feelers. Of course the only thing that means to me is that Arizona is not sold on Leinart as a starter in their system.

[SkinsGuy]

The Cardinals have been talking about going to more of a running game if they have to use Leinart at QB.
My thought process was that they would not have to change their scheme to that extent if they had Campbell.

I never meant to infer or give the opinion that Jason could replace Warner, but only to say that Arizona would/could still have more of a passing game, vs gong to more of a running game.


I still think Jason is a decent qb that could be alittle better in their system then if he stayed in our WCO.
No he will probally never be a top ten qb in this league.

BTW- Adam Schefter via ESPN news did say that Arizona could send out some trade feelers. Of course the only thing that means to me is that Arizona is not sold on Leinart as a starter in their system.


I'm not sold on Leinart, either. :)

And personally, I believe that a leopard doesn't change their spots that easily.

When you have WRs THAT GOOD, as Arizona has, you don't abandon them b/c your star QB retires, and try to run the ball all the time.

You go out and get a QB that can get them the ball.

Campbell isn't that guy (strong arm;not nearly accurate enough, though).

I see what you're saying. You felt they might go to a more run-oriented attack with the departure of Warner, and Campbell would be a good game manager of that.

I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

However, I disagree with your assessment. If you have Fitzgerald and Boldin on your team, YOU THROW THAT BALL.

And throw often. :)

They need to find the anti-Campbell.... someone who is quick and accurate. :D

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

If you can point to one quote or source that said Campbell did take 95% of the practice snaps during the week .

Typically the starting and backup QB will split the snaps 70-30 or depending on the knocks and scrapes the stater has from the previous week .


Sorry, bub. It may vary with the team but during the season the second string QB does not get snaps. This isn't made up by agenda boyz, we've been talking about this since 2004. Not your fault that you weren't around or don't pay attention.

I have no need of justifying the facts that have been known for half a decade or more because you want to defend Jason.

There IS a quote from someone about Todd coming in with no snaps in 2007. Hate to break that to you. YOU find it, the onus is on you.

BTW, cut the combative attitude and simply post (and cut out the BS implication about you-know-what)

[texasthunder]

I'm not sold on Leinart, either. :)

And personally, I believe that a leopard doesn't change their spots that easily.

When you have WRs THAT GOOD, as Arizona has, you don't abandon them b/c your star QB retires, and try to run the ball all the time.

You go out and get a QB that can get them the ball.

Campbell isn't that guy (strong arm;not nearly accurate enough, though).

I see what you're saying. You felt they might go to a more run-oriented attack with the departure of Warner, and Campbell would be a good game manager of that.

I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

However, I disagree with your assessment. If you have Fitzgerald and Boldin on your team, YOU THROW THAT BALL.

And throw often. :)

They need to find the anti-Campbell.... someone who is quick and accurate. :D

Its all good my man.;)

AS for Campbells fit in Arizona, I just hope Arizona feels he is a better choice and is willing to make the trade.

I am not sold on Clausen or Bradford as being the savior of our franchise.

I like Leinart because from what I have read he is a much better QB when running a play action scheme, which is what Shanahan seems to prefer.
Not to mention he has been waiting in the wings behind a hall of fame QB.

Making this trade allows us to use all of our draft resources on lineman, both offensive and defensive, and a running back.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Sorry, bub. It may vary with the team but during the season the second string QB does not get snaps. This isn't made up by agenda boyz, we've been talking about this since 2004. Not your fault that you weren't around or don't pay attention.

I have no need of justifying the facts that have been known for half a decade or more because you want to defend Jason.

There IS a quote from someone about Todd coming in with no snaps in 2007. Hate to break that to you. YOU find it, the onus is on you.

BTW, cut the combative attitude and simply post (and cut out the BS implication about you-know-what)

There's a great paragraph on maybe just why Todd had such success stepping in mixed up in the following: (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/news/story?id=4433306)

Washington Redskins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was) backup Todd Collins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=735) -- who hadn't started a game since 1997 but ultimately helped lead the Redskins to four late-season wins and a playoff appearance in 2007 -- had a similar mentality.

"He was the best I've ever seen at preparing for a game without getting many practice reps," Vermeil said. "Every time a play was called in practice, he could go through it in his mind, visualize how it would play out and what might change and keep that on file. He was like a pilot who learned to fly by being in a flight simulator. He had the intelligence and the discipline to learn like that. Not a lot of guys are made that way."

Here's a an interesting piece on the life of an NFL back-up QB that adds weight to Nibbs claim, not that it needed any adding:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/400/the-life-of-the-backup-quarterback

Hail.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Its all good my man.;)

AS for Campbells fit in Arizona, I just hope Arizona feels he is a better choice and is willing to make the trade.

I am not sold on Clausen or Bradford as being the savior of our franchise.

I like Leinart because from what I have read he is a much better QB when running a play action scheme, which is what Shanahan seems to prefer.
Not to mention he has been waiting in the wings behind a hall of fame QB.

Making this trade allows us to use all of our draft resources on lineman, both offensive and defensive, and a running back.

Something tells me Snyderatto have used this same method of talent evaluation.:rolleyes::D


I love the optimism! Trade JC, gotta love it. Does anyone think the rest of the NFL is as ignorant as some posters in the JC lovefest? JC has zero value, no team will give anything remotly significant for him, inc. a lousy QB like Leinert, in which we want no part of to begin with. Let's try and set our sites a little higher.

When given the choice between a proven loser, and unproven player, I ask, what do you have to lose? JC? Proven loser! Anyone else? Unknown!

What does this all add up to? Jason Campbell, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!

[SkinsGuy]

Its all good my man.;)

AS for Campbells fit in Arizona, I just hope Arizona feels he is a better choice and is willing to make the trade.

I am not sold on Clausen or Bradford as being the savior of our franchise.

I like Leinart because from what I have read he is a much better QB when running a play action scheme, which is what Shanahan seems to prefer.
Not to mention he has been waiting in the wings behind a hall of fame QB.

Making this trade allows us to use all of our draft resources on lineman, both offensive and defensive, and a running back.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that any QB in this draft is a "savior".

If we even draft a QB. :)

I'm just saying that keeping Campbell will amount to nothing more than spinning our wheels for a 4th season.

For me, I'd prefer to get out of the mud and get on down the road. :)

As for Leinart, I'll hold back judgment on him since I haven't seen much of him.

But if we do draft a QB early, I can't see Leinart in the Redskins' plans.

[Brett81]

Typically the starting and backup QB will split the snaps 70-30 or depending on the knocks and scrapes the stater has from the previous week . In which case the work load will be more tilted towards the backup to allow the starter to rest and recover.

You got on SonnyJ for no proof of 95% to 5%...so where's yours???

Source please.

[Metskins]

Campbell starting next year = 7-9 at best. I'll live with it if it means this team actually tries to rebuild and he's gone the year after that.

[mistertim]

Dellusion alert! No-way Zona makes this trade... Fitz, Boldin et al won't allow it. Leinart >> Campbell.

What are you even talking about? Seriously. I'm completely lost when it comes to you.

[Atlass]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?id=4865571

*start listening around 4:40 mark


"Jason Campbell will be the quarterback next year"

"The Redskins would love to see him blossom...it is not his fault that he has had to undergo so many coordinators"

"That doesn't stop them from drafting a quarterback in the first or second round"[/B]

Don't take Sheftner's words lightly. He wrote Mike Shanahan's book and they have a great relationship.

I guess the Skins will be looking at OT in the first round.

[War Paint]

LOL ... 4-12 ... he was supposed to be gone after this year!!

lol. I know. This past season was supposed to be his make or break year. It was a contract year. Players in a contract year usually have their best production. If he didn't get it done in a contract year, he was supposed to be gone. It baffles me that people want to continue to make excuses and want to go through another crap year.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Don't take Sheftner's words lightly. He wrote Mike Shanahan's book and they have a great relationship.

I guess the Skins will be looking at OT in the first round.

Campbell being the starter in 2010 has nothing to do with our draft strategy (or at least it shouldn't).

Plenty of young QBs sit and watch for a while. If the season is lost at the midway point under Campbell, we could put the kid in for some experience (like we did with Campbell in 2006).

[Passizle]

I'll tell you what... with all the JC hate that goes on around here, I will fall out of my chair laughing if we dont draft QB in the first 3 rounds. So many "guarantees" and "promises" coming frm that camp... There will be a ton of fail in this thread (like the many others) with the same extreme view of JC.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'll tell you what... with all the JC hate that goes on around here, I will fall out of my chair laughing if we dont draft QB in the first 3 rounds. So many "guarantees" and "promises" coming frm that camp... There will be a ton of fail in this thread (like the many others) with the same extreme view of JC.

6 year, first round vet. who's proved to be nothing but mediocre, and can't lead his team to either points or wins to save his soul; over hope and a potential end to years upon years of utter garbage in DC from the most important position on the field, all to be proved "right."

Some asinine, board point scoring exercise over the long term good of the Redskins.

And here's me thinking you were above such petty, school yard **** Pass man. :doh:.

Hail.