ESPN.com: NFL All-Decade Team

[Hitman21ST]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4875531

Of course, you're going to have Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, but what I found interesting is that there are no current Redskins on there. The only pseudo Redskins references are Champ Bailey, Jason Taylor, and Shaun Alexander.

I'm mainly surprised that London didn't get named. The other linebackers are Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, Joey Porter, Zach Thomas, Brian Urlacher, and DeMarcus Ware. I'd like to hear how they talked themselves into Porter, Thomas, and Ware over Fletch. The secondary had Champ, Ronde Barber, Ty Law, Charles Woodson, Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu, Darren Sharper, and Ed Reed. I guess Taylor wasn't around long enough to be a candidate.

[RedskinsTime]

Ware at LB? Seriously?

The dude has never had a 100 tackle season. Technically he's a LB in the scheme Dallas runs, but it's his ridiculous sack numbers that put him on this list. He should be listed at DE.

[HailinginSeattle]

How long has Ware even been in the league? All decade? I don't think so.

[terpskins10]

I have no problems with Zach Thomas over Fletcher. And Ware and Porter are OLBs.

That being said, Ware doesn't have much a place on this team but are there really any other dominant OLBs of the decade besides Brooks? Maybe Bulluck but he's fallen off in recent years.

[benskins26]

I think an argument can be made for portis and samuels too. And let's not forget the best long snapper of the decade!

[benskins26]

And while we're at it, even though it's not redskins related, why isn't alstott on that team? That dude was beast

[Hitman21ST]

I think an argument can be made for portis and samuels too. And let's not forget the best long snapper of the decade!

Samuels, yes. Ethan Albright, possibly, since he has been the best long snapper in the NFL over the past years. Portis? I'm not too sure about him. He's paid as an all-decade player, but there have been better backs. JMHO

[MattFancy]

Maybe a little early to put Ware as an All-Decade guy. He's good, but not All-Decade good yet.

I could make an arguement for Portis over Edgerrin James.

Portis' stats:
8 seasons
9,696yds
73 TDs
4.5ypc
1,212 avg rushing yards per season

James' stats:
11 seasons
12,246yds
80 TDs
4.0ypc
1,113 yards per season

[Perky72]

Maybe a little early to put Ware as an All-Decade guy. He's good, but not All-Decade good yet.

Agreed, it's an odd selection. As for Fletcher, he's in the same tier as Urlacher and Thomas, but they do have more awards and bigger names. It's a toss-up.


I could make an arguement for Portis over Edgerrin James.

Portis' stats:
8 seasons
9,696yds
73 TDs
4.5ypc
1,212 avg rushing yards per season

James' stats:
11 seasons
12,246yds
80 TDs
4.0ypc
1,113 yards per season

I think Edge deserves the spot much more than Portis. Both as a runner, but also pass-catcher:

Edge:
433 receptions
3364 yards
11 TD
3 seasons with 60+ catches

Portis:
242 receptions
1963 yards
5 TD
no season with over 50 catches

[MattFancy]

Agreed, it's an odd selection. As for Fletcher, he's in the same tier as Urlacher and Thomas, but they do have more awards and bigger names. It's a toss-up.



I think Edge deserves the spot much more than Portis. Both as a runner, but also pass-catcher:

Edge:
433 receptions
3364 yards
11 TD
3 seasons with 60+ catches

Portis:
242 receptions
1963 yards
5 TD
no season with over 50 catches

Yeah Edge has the edge in receiving, but rushing number wise they are pretty much equal. And Portis has played 3 less seasons. I'm not saying Portis should be on the All-Decade team, but he is at least comparable numbers to James.

[scruffylookin]

Not sure Willie Roaf belongs on that list ahead of Chris Samuels.

The only other Redskin who should most certainly be on that list is Clinton Portis.

Clinton in 8 seasons has 9676 yards and 73 tds

Jamal Lewis has 10607 yards and 58 touchdowns in 10 seasons. Yes I know he had that 2000 yard season but this is a decade list, not best single season but rather best decade. Sorry Clinton has been better for longer.

Lewis has barely been a 1000 yard back since the 2004 season.

Clinton has been a 1300 to 1500 yard back 6 of his 8 seasons.

Shaun Alexander also is questionable. He has less yards 9453 in 9 seasons. But he does have the magic 100 touchdowns so I guess that gets him over.

I guess what kills Clinton is that his teams both in Denver and here have not been very good but Shaun Alexander has been to a Super Bowl and Lewis won one.

But either way only Chris and Clinton deserve to be even mentioned for this list. What an awful decade it was.

[Spartacus87]

Ware's been in the NFL since 2005, but he has just over 60 sacks in that time span. He's been one of the most dominant pass rushers in the league since his rookie year.

Sometimes I get the feeling the only reason a lot of people around here care so much about Fletcher is because he's on the Redskins.

Samuels, as great as he's been for us, hasn't been as good as the 4 OTs on the list.

I'd take Portis over Lewis though. Lewis had the 2,000 yard season and two decent years besides that, otherwise he didn't really do much.

[MattFancy]

Ware's been in the NFL since 2005, but he has just over 60 sacks in that time span. He's been one of the most dominant pass rushers in the league since his rookie year.

Sometimes I get the feeling the only reason a lot of people around here care so much about Fletcher is because he's on the Redskins.

Samuels, as great as he's been for us, hasn't been as good as the 4 OTs on the list.

I'd take Portis over Lewis though. Lewis had the 2,000 yard season and two decent years besides that, otherwise he didn't really do much.

I agree with the Lewis thought. I mean besides his 2,000yd season, what else has he done? CP burst onto the seen his rookie year and has been very consistent since. Even with 2 season of 8 games a piece, he still is averaging over 1200yds for his career. That's pretty good.

[Perky72]

Yeah Edge has the edge in receiving, but rushing number wise they are pretty much equal. And Portis has played 3 less seasons. I'm not saying Portis should be on the All-Decade team, but he is at least comparable numbers to James.

True, Edge isn't "much" more deserving.

I do think he and Tomlinson are pretty easy choices for the top two spots though. If I were to kick an RB out to replace with CP it would be Shaun Alexander.

Moving on, the safety position sure has some crazy talent--Reed, Polamalu, Sharper, Dawkins. WR is very strong too.

[stoney26]

Ware being on that list just goes to show how much ESPN loves promoting the pukes. Just more puke propaganda from the puke propaganda machine ESPN. Entertainment sports puke network.

[terpskins10]

Sometimes I get the feeling the only reason a lot of people around here care so much about Fletcher is because he's on the Redskins.



I just said that in another thread! I love Fletcher and what he brings to this team, but there are definite arguments against him that are stronger than the fact that he has the most tackles over a certain time period.

If he was still on the Bills, or the Chiefs, or the Jaguars or something, he'd just be another sad story like Fred Taylor but there wouldn't be this type of outrage.

[MartinC]

I just said that in another thread! I love Fletcher and what he brings to this team, but there are definite arguments against him that are stronger than the fact that he has the most tackles over a certain time period.

If he was still on the Bills, or the Chiefs, or the Jaguars or something, he'd just be another sad story like Fred Taylor but there wouldn't be this type of outrage.

Well this a Redskins fan board. Of course we are going to be more interested in Redskins players and perceived slights than for those of non Redskins players.

For me by the way Samuels has a much stronger case than Fletcher. I'd have him on that list ahead of Wille Roaf.

[Spartacus87]

Ware being on that list just goes to show how much ESPN loves promoting the pukes. Just more puke propaganda from the puke propaganda machine ESPN. Entertainment sports puke network. 64.5 sacks and 23 forced fumbles in his first five years in the league.

He's dominant.

[stoney26]

64.5 sacks and 23 forced fumbles in his first five years in the league.

He's dominant.

Great player? Without a doubt. Dominant? Meh, I guess. The guy is a monster on the field no doubt. But all decade team? Not so sure he would have made that list if he didnt play for the cowboys. Just my opinion.

[Forehead]

Got to be honest, I have no real problems with that list, including the lack of current Skins. It's not like we deserve much recognition for the past decade anyway.

For those arguing Samuels over Roaf, let's point out the following stats. Roaf was an 11 time pro-bowler, but that aside, he was 1st team All-Pro 6 times, and 2nd Team All-Pro 3 times. All Pro is far more important in my mind than pro-bowler. He was also extremely durable.

Chris Samuels has been a 6 time Pro-Bowler, and has been 2nd Team All-Pro exactly 1 time. 0 times 1st team all-pro. He has been about as durable as Roaf was.

Sorry guys, it doesn't add up. Roaf was much more accomplished than Samuels has been. The only argument you can make against Roaf was that his career was part 90's, part 00's, but even then, he still had more all-pro selections in the 00's than Samuels, including multiple times 1st team.

As for Portis, he's been good most of the time, but had some crappy seasons as well. And Broncos fans will point out that he had his best yardage/TD seasons the two years he was with them, so it's not like we have complete claim to the guy. He has also never been an All-Pro, not even with Denver, while Edgerrin James has claimed that honor three times (2 times first team). James also has more pro bowl selections.

So yeah, if you look at this honestly and objectively, the Skins didn't get slighted at all. Not Portis, not Samuels, no one.

P.S....screw DeMarcus Ware, just on principle.

[Forehead]

For me by the way Samuels has a much stronger case than Fletcher. I'd have him on that list ahead of Wille Roaf.

Please see above. Roaf trumps Samuels at pretty much everything.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Samuels, as great as he's been for us, hasn't been as good as the 4 OTs on the list.


That's actually not true. Samuels was at least as good (better) than Pace this entire time and in spite of some recent injuries, Pace has been injured and ineffective for quite some time now. I still remember his three sack allowance for Bruce Smith in 2000 and that was back in his "prime."

I would concur on Walter Jones at his best (though Walter didn't start off as good as Samuels, remember that) and Ogden.

Champ Bailey is as much ours as anyone else's, considering he was here for 3 of those 00s and part of the 90s as well.

[dwbiggs]

how could Fletcher not be on the team? He's only missed, what, one game in his career and has more tackles than anyone in the last 10 years? What does a linebacker have to do?

[SkinsMaster88]

Ware does deserve to be on the list, as much as I hate to see any Dallas players there. He's been a beast and one of the best defensive players in the NFL since he joined.

If Portis didn't get injured in 2006 and 2009, I think he'd have a good shot to have made the team. James had a bigger name because he was on a consistent winner. Plus, James was always more of a 2-way threat than Portis. I personally don't think Portis' career as a good RB is over, even if it's not with us. Portis will end his career better than James IMO.

Samuels over Roaf is something I would debate. Willie Roaf was drafted back in 1993. He started 2000 at age 30. Most of his Pro Bowls were in the 90s. He was on the great Chiefs line for just 4 years, and only had 4 full seasons in the 2000s decade. Roaf is a HOF'er, but simply because of the year breakdown, I'd say that Samuels deserves the spot on the All-Decade team more.

Overall though, it's a good list. You can see the case for each player that was selected.

Edit: I would've liked to see Portis over Lewis, and Fletcher on the team. But, in Fletcher's case the lack of Pro Bowl, and especially All-Pro selections hurts him.

[Forehead]

how could Fletcher not be on the team? He's only missed, what, one game in his career and has more tackles than anyone in the last 10 years? What does a linebacker have to do?

I'm sure being All-Pro and a pro bowler helps. Until recently, Fletcher had neither, and still has never made All-Pro. I'm sure that's part of what's keeping everyone back that the board is complaining about.

[VTmike]

Ware at LB? Seriously?

The dude has never had a 100 tackle season. Technically he's a LB in the scheme Dallas runs, but it's his ridiculous sack numbers that put him on this list. He should be listed at DE.

It's their scheme. His sack numbers are off the charts.


I think an argument can be made for portis and samuels too. And let's not forget the best long snapper of the decade!

No to Portis, possibly to Samuels. A better argument would be Fletcher.


And while we're at it, even though it's not redskins related, why isn't alstott on that team? That dude was beast

Had only 3 good years in the 00's, would be more appropriate for a 90's decade team IMO.


64.5 sacks and 23 forced fumbles in his first five years in the league.

He's dominant.

Very true, but would you put him over London Fletcher who has the most tackles of any linebacker this decade? I would say considering that stat he's on the team. Unfortunately his Pro Bowl numbers don't back it up. Which to this day still baffles me.

[Forehead]

Samuels over Roaf is something I would debate. Willie Roaf was drafted back in 1993. He started 2000 at age 30. Most of his Pro Bowls were in the 90s. He was on the great Chiefs line for just 4 years, and only had 4 full seasons in the 2000s decade. Roaf is a HOF'er, but simply because of the year breakdown, I'd say that Samuels deserves the spot on the All-Decade team more.


But, in Fletcher's case the lack of Pro Bowl, and especially All-Pro selections hurts him.


I think you're contradicting yourself with these statements. Again, Willie Roaf was 1st or 2nd team All-Pro (not pro bowl, all-pro) 9 times, and 5 of those came in the 00's. Samuels has been an all-pro once.

Both are extremely durable players. And if you want to be objective, if you're going to say Roaf was on a great Chiefs line for "just four years" than how many "great lines" was Samuels on? Zero? One?

I don't like saying it, but Roaf is more deserving. I'm not even sure it's close.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You can make an argument for Samuels, but it's hard to say that Jones, Pace, and Ogden should not be on it. I would put him at #4 in that group.

(That's all the main reason why I don't think Samuels will ever sniff the hall of fame. Tackles have a hard time getting in, and he needs three guys from his era to get in before he does. At the end of the day, those three are probably considered better players to begin with, and all of them played in Super Bowls).

I thought Roaf was better in the 90s to be honest. But he was really really good too.

[thesubmittedone]

Samuels and Fletcher are ginormous snubs. Ridiculous, honestly.

[scottb]

Ware's been in the NFL since 2005, but he has just over 60 sacks in that time span. He's been one of the most dominant pass rushers in the league since his rookie year.

.


Ware is an exceptional, dominant player...but he does not belong on this list. His career is just too short. This does not diminish Ware's contributions, and given another 5-8 years of similar perfomance, he will be a lock for the HOF. However, IMHO he does not qualify for the all decade team since he missing half of the years. I believe the only reason he was selected was his performance is so recent and fresh to ESPN selectors. I bet if he he played from 2000-2004 wth the same numbers and then quit/retired/injured, he would not have been picked. It's even tough to give him credit for big games, since 1 playoff win is hardly notable. Sorry, he doesn't belong...yet.

[DGREENHULK]

Joey Porter are you kidding me.......Fletch is the most tackles in the league last decade...and your giving me Joey Porter....

[Spartacus87]

That's actually not true. Samuels was at least as good (better) than Pace this entire time and in spite of some recent injuries, Pace has been injured and ineffective for quite some time now. I still remember his three sack allowance for Bruce Smith in 2000 and that was back in his "prime."

I would concur on Walter Jones at his best (though Walter didn't start off as good as Samuels, remember that) and Ogden. I also remember Jared Allen abusing Samuels for 3 sacks in the KC/WAS game in 2005. And that was Samuels' "prime" as well.

Pace was also 1st team All-Pro in 2000, 2001, 2003, and 2004. Those aren't accomplishments to take very lightly, like Pro Bowls are in many cases.

Samuels is probably closer to edging out Pace than any other guy on the list, but I still think it leans in Pace's favor.


Very true, but would you put him over London Fletcher who has the most tackles of any linebacker this decade? I would say considering that stat he's on the team. Unfortunately his Pro Bowl numbers don't back it up. Which to this day still baffles me. I don't know that Fletcher shouldn't be on the list. I was mainly arguing for Ware against the people saying he mainly made it because he's a Cowboy, which I don't think is fair to Ware's accomplishments. I know he only played in half the decade, but from the get go he was a premiere player for that half of the decade. That means something.

I think most people just acknowledge that Fletcher isn't "flashy" enough for lists like these. His reputation is being a textbook tackler, not a play maker.

[DeaconBlue]

I think most people just acknowledge that Fletcher isn't "flashy" enough for lists like these. His reputation is being a textbook tackler, not a play maker.

See this is whats wrong with this league and alot of you people. That he does exactly what he's supposed to do day in and day out and do it better than just about everyone else BTW(without having to be flashy about it) is somehow a valid excuse for penalizing the man is purely assinine. There are no two ways about it. And to those that point out that if he hadnt played here that maybe the moral outrage here wouldnt exist I say that thats a completely irrelevant arguement. If he had accomplished the same things elsewhere and was left off like he is then it would still be a travesty.

[sportjunkie07]

i took all of the lb's that made the all decade team and compared them to fletcher since 2000. stats are from cbssports.com
PD is passes defended and FF is Forced Fumbles

_________Tack---Sack---Int--Td--PD---FF
Ray Lewis-1182---23.5---21---2---75---12
Urlacher---1059---37.5---17---2---67---8
Thomas---1175---15------11---1---39---9
Porter-----589-----90-----12---3---50---22
Ware------280-----64.5---1----2---19---23
Brooks----1035----9------17---7---61---16
Fletcher---1376---27-----15---3---58---12


this tells me a few things from a statistical standpoint:

1. Though Demarcus Ware has been excellent, his stats over the decade are not enough to be included.

2. Ray Lewis and Joey Porter deserve their spots

3. Zach Thomas is the weakest candidate on this list (outside of Ware) and really is at a statistical level lower than the rest

4. London Fletcher most definitely belongs on the list, he leads in tackles and is highly rated in every other catagory.

5. Brian Urlacher and Derrick Brooks are the hardes of the two linebackers to decide on. In my mind, they rank equally and its a toss up.

So here is the new, non media biased, stat based all decade team.

1. Porter 2. Fletcher 3. Lewis 4.(tie) Brooks and Urlacher 6. Thomas

*tackles for a loss and safeties would also be good to include

[bulldog]

Fletcher is a lot like Hacksaw Reynolds, another greybeard veteran middle backer that made a ton of tackles and key stops in crunch time but never was given his due because he wasn't flamboyant enough.

If you don't have a sack dance or a song or some kind of media image these days you don't get the rewards.

[Chicken Fried]

Shaun Alexander and Jamal Lewis are strange picks. If I remember correctly, neither were consistently great year after year.

[skinsdude]

Wow, that's a very weak team at running back.

[Forehead]

Shaun Alexander and Jamal Lewis are strange picks. If I remember correctly, neither were consistently great year after year.

Shaun Alexander from 2001 - 2005. Yardage: 1,318; 1,175; 1,435; 1,696; 1,880. Touchdowns: 14, 16, 14, 16, 27.

7,504 yards rushing and 87 touchdowns over a five year period smack in the middle of the decade. And for what it's worth in that same five year period, he also had 183 receptions for 1,346 yards, and another 11 touchdowns. He earned his spot without question.

Jamal Lewis I'm not as sold on, I think folks remember the 2,000 yard season a little too much, but a quick stat check shows that he did have 6 additional seasons where he went over 1,000 yards. I think what helps him is that his career started in 2000, so his entire career stats (10,000+yards and 58 TD's) falls within the decade. I'd have still taken Alexander, Tomlinson, and James over him; he's probably the weakest of the bunch.

[MattFancy]

Wow, that's a very weak team at running back.

I agree but who else would you put in there? Tomlinson is the only lock IMO. Peterson and Chris Johnson haven't been around long enough to put them in there. Maybe CP or Brian Westbrook? But it just shows that RBs aren't build to last very long.

[Forehead]

I'll say this, we might be arguing Portis vs. Lewis, and it's a good argument. But man, if Ricky Williams would have just laid off the pot and not taken his sabbatical from the NFL, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You look at his stats from the seasons he has played, and without that gaping hole in the middle, he's probably in the conversation for best RB of the decade.

[MattFancy]

I'll say this, we might be arguing Portis vs. Lewis, and it's a good argument. But man, if Ricky Williams would have just laid off the pot and not taken his sabbatical from the NFL, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You look at his stats from the seasons he has played, and without that gaping hole in the middle, he's probably in the conversation for best RB of the decade.

That's a very good point. When Ricky has been healthy and wanted to play, he's been very good. But not playing those few seasons hurt his chances.

[Forehead]

I agree but who else would you put in there? Tomlinson is the only lock IMO. Peterson and Chris Johnson haven't been around long enough to put them in there. Maybe CP or Brian Westbrook? But it just shows that RBs aren't build to last very long.

I think people tend to overvalue Westbrook because he was such a good reciever and because he always killed the Skins. Interestingly enough though, he only has 6,000 career rushing yards, and only 37 rushing touchdowns. He's only had two 1,000 yard rushing seasons.

Now he has stellar receiving numbers to complement that, but I can see why he was left off.

[MattFancy]

I think people tend to overvalue Westbrook because he was such a good reciever and because he always killed the Skins. Interestingly enough though, he only has 6,000 career rushing yards, and only 37 rushing touchdowns. He's only had two 1,000 yard rushing seasons.

Now he has stellar receiving numbers to complement that, but I can see why he was left off.

I wasn't really saying he should be on there, just kind of if not those guys, than who else?

Another one that no one has mentioned might be Tiki Barber. Might not be popular around here but in the 2000's he had 9,514yds and 52 TDs. Not outstanding numbers, but from 2002-2006 his worst rushing total was 1,216.

But RBs in the 2000s were nothing special outside of Tomlinson. James, Lewis, Alexander, Portis, Williams, and Barber are all pretty much the same. LT was the only one that really stood out.

[skinsdude]

I agree but who else would you put in there? Tomlinson is the only lock IMO. Peterson and Chris Johnson haven't been around long enough to put them in there. Maybe CP or Brian Westbrook? But it just shows that RBs aren't build to last very long.

You could maybe throw Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes in there.

[Forehead]

You could maybe throw Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes in there.

Yeah maybe, I think what's holding them back is that Holmes only had 2-3 really good season, and a lot of Faulk's damage came in the 90's. By 2003 or so, Faulk was a shell of his former self.

This makes me wish even more that Ricky Williams would have just gotten his **** together. Then we wouldn't have to have this discussion/argument.

[MattFancy]

You could maybe throw Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes in there.

The problem with both of them is that they didn't play much in the 2000s. Faulk only had 2 1,000yd seasons and Holmes had 3. Granted those season they had in the 2000s were really good, but they just didn't play much in the decade.

[sjinhan]

Ware at LB? Seriously?

The dude has never had a 100 tackle season. Technically he's a LB in the scheme Dallas runs, but it's his ridiculous sack numbers that put him on this list. He should be listed at DE.

although i dont think Ware should have made the list only because he didnt play long enough in the decade... if you make that argument then you have to take off Joey Porter as well...

[skinsdude]

The problem with both of them is that they didn't play much in the 2000s. Faulk only had 2 1,000yd seasons and Holmes had 3. Granted those season they had in the 2000s were really good, but they just didn't play much in the decade.

They did play early in the decade but Marshall was in the 2000, 2001, and 2002 pro bowls while Priest was in the 2001, 2002, 2003 pro bowls. You could have even thrown Tiki in the mix if he had hung around longer.

[MattFancy]

They did play early in the decade but Marshall was in the 2000, 2001, and 2002 pro bowls while Priest was in the 2001, 2002, 2003 pro bowls. You could have even thrown Tiki in the mix if he had hung around longer.

Right, like I said, they played but it was in the early part and then they tailed off. I made the argument for Tiki a few posts back.

But it just shows how thin the RB position was last decade. Tomlinson was the only one that was consistent throughout the decade. Alexander and Lewis had a few good years. James wasn't bad, but tailed off around 2005. CP has been good but hasn't gotten the recognition. Ricky Williams would be on the list if he didn't take off for a few years. Tiki isn't a bad choice but got a bad rep because of fumbles.