Wash Post: Why is Obama killing off D.C.'s voucher program?

[Wrong Direction]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/02/obama_and_vouchers.html?hpid=opinionsbox1



But even if you're inclined against vouchers, why not embrace a program that has a chance to shed real light on the long-running, fraught and inconclusive argument about their effectiveness? The D.C. program was established to provide such evidence. It enrolled a control group of children who applied for vouchers but didn't get them, and it is following them along with the kids with vouchers. In a couple more years, if funded robustly, it would give us a real sense of what worked and what didn't. That could be helpful to lots of children.

Yet the Obama administration seems to be doing everything it can to wind down the program. Why? Early research results have been positive -- certainly in terms of parental satisfaction, but also for achievement. Maybe the Democratic Party, and the teachers union leaders who support it, would rather not see any more evidence.


As the husband of an educator and a man who is sickened by the lack of education for too many young people, I can't help but think this is not the hope and change we were promised.

I'm not a Democrat for many reasons, but their educational policies have to be at the top of the list. They're terrible and I'm convinced that they doom more kids to bad adult lives than is necessary. :mad:

[twa]

Teacher's unions and the supporters of his that fear religious influence in education and losing the lib influence in our kids lives.

it comes down to control

[Kilmer17]

He's killing it because he's feckless in the face of unions.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Whats ironic is the left HATES Arne Duncan because he was a charter school guy in Chicago, and talks about testing and what not.

But its clear this admin is a tool of the teachers union

[grego]

I'm not a Democrat for many reasons, but their educational policies have to be at the top of the list. They're terrible and I'm convinced that they doom more kids to bad adult lives than is necessary. :mad:

you are correct.

i dated a teacher a few years ago and the stories i heard....having to pass kids to essentially meet a quota.


the teachers unions have done a terrible job of providing quality eduation for kids.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Of course, this would be a golden opportunity for the Republicans if they were smart at all

Can you think of having a PC in DC with every black Republican they can find there asking why President Obama is killing this program?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Why does President Obama hate black people? :)

[TheLongshot]

I'm wondering why this guy is blaming Obama when it seems to be Congress killing the program.

[McD5]

Unions own him.

Banks own him too.

Everyone, aside from first time voters or extremely uneducated voters, knew this before the election.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I'm wondering why this guy is blaming Obama when it seems to be Congress killing the program.

It was Education Sec Arne Duncan who months ago proposed shutting this program down

So it comes from the administration

Thread about it from the spring (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=285383)

[The Evil Genius]

Any school that accepts vouchers and the $$$'s from them should be open to regulation by the government.

Or are we ok now with giving out free money to businesses as long as they fit into our belief system?

:evilg:

[TheLongshot]

It was Education Sec Arne Duncan who months ago proposed shutting this program down

So it comes from the administration

Thread about it from the spring (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=285383)

Yeah, I read that. It sounded more like a reaction to Congress only extending the program another year. Tho, I probably can see how it is a sign that the administration isn't going to push hard to try to save the program, I would hardly say that Obama is killing it.

[Wrong Direction]

Any school that accepts vouchers and the $$$'s from them should be open to regulation by the government.

Or are we ok now with giving out free money to businesses as long as they fit into our belief system?

:evilg:

Way to deflect. These kids need better options...period.

My wife taught middle school in Baltimore City out of college. I hate to tell you but many of these kids have no chance. Their parents are crap and the environment in the schools is horrible. The good parents who want to give their kids a better option need just that...options.

Unless of course the unions would allow for real reform in the existing public schools.

[Wrong Direction]

Yeah, I read that. It sounded more like a reaction to Congress only extending the program another year. Tho, I probably can see how it is a sign that the administration isn't going to push hard to try to save the program, I would hardly say that Obama is killing it.

I hope you're right. He did run on supporting these programs but he's done nothing to make people think he'll stand up to the teacher's unions with anything more than platitudes during speeches.

I have no confidence in this man to help education in the least, much less fix it. He's a tool of the establishment until he shows me he isn't.

[Bang]

The Teacher's Union is one of the worst institutions in the country, IMO. The very purpose of a union is to protect workers from exploitation by management, and since the Dept of Ed is not a for profit industry, it isn't necessary.
All the teacher's unions have ever done is decrease the level of education in this country.
Break it up and make the education of the kids the priority, not the number of days off with pay the teachers get.

~Bang

[Duckus]

The Teacher's Union is one of the worst institutions in the country, IMO. The very purpose of a union is to protect workers from exploitation by management, and since the Dept of Ed is not a for profit industry, it isn't necessary.
All the teacher's unions have ever done is decrease the level of education in this country.
Break it up and make the education of the kids the priority, not the number of days off with pay the teachers get.

~Bang

I agree. I am a big supporter of unions and what they have done for people all over the world. However, I strongly dislike the Teacher's Union and support voucher programs.

[Wrong Direction]

I hope some of the more left thinking types start to respond to this thread. I'd love to hear what they think of this.

I happen to think that even very Democrat democrats are supportive of programs like this and don't like what the Dem party does with teachers unions.

[Duckus]

I hope some of the more left thinking types start to respond to this thread. I'd love to hear what they think of this.

I happen to think that even very Democrat democrats are supportive of programs like this and don't like what the Dem party does with teachers unions.

Ummm, look at some of the posts right above yours :ols:

[Wrong Direction]

Ummm, look at some of the posts right above yours :ols:

Then my suspicions are confirmed. ;)

[DjTj]

A better question.

Why did the WP take so long to care? This program is now dead, it could have been saved a year ago. Methinks the Post is just grandstanding.The Washington Post editorial page has been on this story for a long time.

Here are a few of the editorials over the last year:

March 2: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/01/AR2009030101617.html
March 14: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/13/AR2009031303039.html
April 10: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041003073.html
April 29: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802483.html
May 6: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/06/AR2009050603750.html
August 28: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/27/AR2009082703576.html
December 14: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/13/AR2009121302440.html
February 4: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020303532.html

Interestingly, Jay Mathews has opposed vouchers: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/22/AR2009032201628.html

Personally, I like charter Schools a lot more than vouchers. I don't really care that much whether vouchers in DC stay or go, but they will always be a small part of any education policy because there just aren't enough spots in private schools for that many children. The DC voucher program is less than 2,000 students. If you want to expand that number, you will start putting a lot of public money into private schools, and then you will basically have charter schools rather than vouchers. Vouchers are an okay solution at the margins, but their impact will always be limited.

[Wrong Direction]

Personally, I like charter Schools a lot more than vouchers. I don't really care that much whether vouchers in DC stay or go, but they will always be a small part of any education policy because there just aren't enough spots in private schools for that many children. The DC voucher program is less than 2,000 students. If you want to expand that number, you will start putting a lot of public money into private schools, and then you will basically have charter schools rather than vouchers. Vouchers are an okay solution at the margins, but their impact will always be limited.

This is a good point for people to understand the limitations of the programs. On the other hand, it's self defeating to stop programs that can actually help a good segment of students, IMO.

To me, this is similar to the AYP debate. No, it doesn't target every single child. Yes it does target kids within a standard deviation of passing (more or less). So, while it is not the end all be all of fixing schools, it does help a sizable portion of students. Why shut it down? Because the teacher's union continues to support all or nothing approaches.

Socialism? Yes.

[AzSkinsFan63]

Any school that accepts vouchers and the $$$'s from them should be open to regulation by the government.

Or are we ok now with giving out free money to businesses as long as they fit into our belief system?

:evilg:

I think it's called AIMS testing.

Private schools and home schooling are not immune to government educational standards. No one has ever asked that they be, that I can recall?

The only reason for the hoopla on vouchers, has and always will be, the ability to teach more kids moral values through the christian denominational religions.

I 'm pretty sure you'll find private school kids are way way ahead in every facet in education and as far as students becoming responsible adults.

Perfect? NO.... Better? YES!

Why is that?

[The Evil Genius]

I think it's called AIMS testing.

Private schools and home schooling are not immune to government educational standards. No one has ever asked that they be, that I can recall?

The only reason for the hoopla on vouchers, has and always will be, the ability to teach more kids moral values through the christian denominational religions.

I 'm pretty sure you'll find private school kids are way way ahead in every facet in education and as far as students becoming responsible adults.

Perfect? NO.... Better? YES!

Why is that?

Easy. Because private schools can weed out people they don't want to accept. They don't have to accept poor dumb Johnny from the trailer park (or the hood). If they did - their testing numbers would suffer.

[TheLongshot]

I hope some of the more left thinking types start to respond to this thread. I'd love to hear what they think of this.

I happen to think that even very Democrat democrats are supportive of programs like this and don't like what the Dem party does with teachers unions.

To get into details, I support it in cases where the schools are so bad that people really need to look for other options. DC is a good example, where the school system has been horrible for years. While there has been a lot of work to improve things, there needs to be stopgap measures in the meantime so that at least some kids can get a proper education while fixes are going on.

[DRSmith]

Way to deflect. These kids need better options...period.

My wife taught middle school in Baltimore City out of college. I hate to tell you but many of these kids have no chance. Their parents are crap and the environment in the schools is horrible. The good parents who want to give their kids a better option need just that...options.

Unless of course the unions would allow for real reform in the existing public schools.

Maybe if the unions are the problem there then it is time for everyone to bite the bullet and take a stand and now seems to be the time to do it.

If so many people are out of work then this government funded day care can be reigned in, parents are at home to care for their kids right now so a nice long strike would not be a problem.

[Wrong Direction]

To get into details, I support it in cases where the schools are so bad that people really need to look for other options. DC is a good example, where the school system has been horrible for years. While there has been a lot of work to improve things, there needs to be stopgap measures in the meantime so that at least some kids can get a proper education while fixes are going on.

Fair enough. I agree that they should start in the worst schools.

[DRSmith]

If classroom size is an issue then taking money out of the system does not help.

[The Evil Genius]

If classroom size is an issue then taking money out of the system does not help.

I would say the main culprit is the parents. And giving them 3k in welfare (under another name) to put their kids in a private school isn't going to change their lack of being a good parent.

But then again - I have attended both types of schools. And I saw that their wasn't much difference in Va. Beach at the time. So my views are warped in that sense.

[DRSmith]

Also interesting was this write up.

Before Congress continues the DC voucher program, it needs to focus on the program’s underperformance and dysfunction and cut through the illusion that thousands of poor children have been lifted out of dangerous, underperforming DC schools and that poor families have been given the same choices rich folks like the McCains and Obamas enjoy. Actually, few DC voucher students have come from low-performing DC schools and only a handful of these students have entered the prestigious, high-performing schools of the comfortably rich. Nor have students necessarily moved from poor public schools to better private ones. Nor is there now nor will there be research data that could demonstrate academic achievement to justify continuation of the program. The DC voucher program is a failed experiment that has been a nightmare of poor administration, a ragtag group of participating schools providing less than perfect information about their programs and an evaluation scheme designed to examine a political, rather than an educational proposition. In actuality, the program hasn’t even proven to be a barrier-breaking exemplar of how the free market could increase school choice.

Instead of the pricey private schools, the majority of DC voucher students attend modest, religion-based schools that welcome the $7,500 per student payment. Some of the schools are accredited, some are not. None are required to have highly qualified teachers nor demonstrate their competence as defined by the No child Left Behind (NCLB) law. Actually, the participating private schools are not governed by the (NCLB) law and none are required to meet the academic standards set by the District.

The D.C. School Choice Incentive Act of 2003 intended that DC students from low-performing public schools be the beneficiaries of DC public vouchers; however, in the first year many students already in private schools received vouchers to continue at the same schools. This was not a program that many parents understood, nor were many academically-strong private schools prepared to enroll students from low-performing schools. The Washington Scholarship Program (WSP), contracted in 2004 to administrator the program, found that it had an unrealistically short timeline in which to recruit both DC families and the DC private schools to receive them. Faced with unused vouchers, WSF extended the application process multiple times, vigorously recruited students and struggled to find spaces at private middle and high schools. They also, contrary to the Act, converted private school students into voucher students. (D.C. School Vouchers Outnumber Applicants)

The DC voucher program hasn’t promised universal access to tony private schools: rather, the goal has been increased choice, but the result has been that numerous parents have chosen private schools that have lackluster academic programs. (An acceptable goal for libertarians who advocate the right to choose regardless of quality.) . As the 2004 GAO report states, the quality of participating private schools is uneven:

The extent to which private schools had characteristics associated with high-quality educational programs has varied. For example, some schools reported that some of their teachers lacked at least a bachelor’s degree. Furthermore, some participating schools did not meet basic requirements to operate in the District. For example, a few had no certificate of occupancy on file with the District or had certificates that did not specify educational use. Despite important variation among schools, the grantee did not always provide parents with complete and accurate information on their characteristics. For example, WSF provided parents inaccurate information on teachers’ qualifications and tuition for some schools. (p. 9)

http://www.dccityschools.com/?page_id=84